Very true about the pistol skills. I see that manifest amongst many modern day soldiers and marines. In fact, I started out the same way and then came to be one one of the weirdos with a higher pistol badge than the rifle badge. That can be chalked up to me getting into pistol competitions like IDPA, USPSA and steel challenge though and me not having access to rifle ranges over 100-200 yards.
Boot camp. Dad once said, you cant hit anything with a 45 at this distance. Ge was then ordered to stand beside the target. Learned to keep his mouth shut after that
I know he is trying to represent a WW2 US soldier, but for some reason, Ian looks more like a US backed dictator in some foreign country. All he is missing are some medals and a cigar.
@@melc311 I'd rather have a sword than a pistol. But that may be influenced by the fact I have greater faith in my swordsmanship than my pistol skills.
the only insult that’s better than that is “If it weren’t for the Allies, Poland would be speaking German,” to which a Polish person would probably respond with “I demand an apology”
@TheT34Tank Adam said he wanted to do something else after working on nothing but MB at all times for, what was it, a decade? And Jamie always maintained he was more comfortable behind the scenes than in front of a camera. I think the show could've kept going with the build team, but the network was looking to simultaneously cut costs while constantly ramping up the spectacle and it wasn't a feasible plan.
I've lost quite a bit of respect for Adam Savage due to his big mouth on Twitter so I'm hesitant to bother with his work anymore, but it's hard to argue that anyone could replace the original duo. I saw Mythbusters Live several years ago. The show itself was a rather simple affair but it was worth it simply to listen to Jamie and Adam talk in depth about what they did for two hours. Maybe in another generation the concept might be worth reviving, but right now I think it's best to just let sleeping dogs lie.
@@herbderbler1585 After watching adam on tested is pretty obvious that jamie was the brains and adam was mostly a tv presenter on mythbusters. which makes sense jamie has a huge and varied career history and adam just made laser cut models for a living
Ian also uses a two handed grip that wasn't taught at the time. And speaking as a totally novice shooter, I found firing full power rifles a lot easier to get on target than the 9mm I tried afterwards, so I can really visualise the advantage the carbine offers even with minimal training.
Yeah, after basic training, I bet a lot of soldiers in support roles hardly fired a round partly due to a lack of access to ranges to train on and partly due to the cost and logistical drain of all the ammunition needed for them to be training regularly. Even infantrymen probably didn't get that much range time after their MOS training except in cases where they were stationed at a base in theater for an extended period like in England waiting for D-Day.
I'm currently reading "Shots Fired In Anger" by Lt.Col. John George. The only rifle training the men of his machine gun platoon got prior to shipping out for the Pacific was one morning with some basic instruction on sight alignment and trigger squeeze and fifteen rounds each.
No surprising results here. And that's taking into account that the simulations done here are relatively favorable to the 1911. In RL situations, support crews would typically engage enemies at distances where the 1911 is not even viable.
@@zoiders The hedge rows speak German, the hills speak Chinese, the trees speak Vietnamese, the sand speaks Arabic, the mountains speak Pashton, but the rooftops speak Korean.
I also doubt that WW2 GIs use the "Jeff Cooper" double hand 'advanced method' pistol grip (as it did not exist in WW2) and likely used only their strong hand.
There's a few training videos online from that time-frame with exactly that stance - strong hand only. It would add a fair bit of time to each stage if Ian (or really anyone) had shot with that style.
They were really trained to point shoot. Good point shooting is much faster, and I train this way every chance I get. Past 25 feet accuracy drops off, but the speed. Also I don’t have the best eyes in the world and I am cross eyed dominate, so it takes me longer than average to pick up the front sight.
This is more a weapons system comparison rather than just the weapon. The incredibly slow times for the 1911, can in part be attributed to the ridiculously slow holster. Therefore probably making it an even more accurate comparison under pressure.
A LOT of what I see, is the trouble Ian is having with the "suicide flap" holster. When I was an MP at Bragg in the late 90s, we were going through a monumental equipment shift, from "military gear" to "civilian gear." Yep, back then, it was the military who looked to civilian cops for advice... Not like that today... Hasn't since 9/11... But, I digress. I was issued a suicide flap holster, in OD Green (as was the MP Duty belt configuration of the time) and we called them that for a reason... Not only did you have to fight with, and hold up the flap, the friction inside the holster during the draw, would cause the whole f'n holster to flip up, and jam everything up. Every time, throughout this video, you can see Gun Jeebus encountering these problems. When the MPs switched to "real cop" equipment, we went with Bianchi. And they actually made those flap holsters in black, I still have mine - they were sold commercially too, I didn't steal, I just bought mine before they were issued. I'm stylish like that. 😏😎 Now, they did make a thumb-break snap "conversion" which eliminated the suicide flap, and I also had that, and it was a game changer, for that holster. The Uncle Mike's Level 3 holster was THE hot item at the time, and UM's had since gone to complete shit. Only the K9s, and a few other very specialized individual MPs (like wildlife and traffic crash investigators, etc) were issued them, because the Uncle Mike's was that goddamn radical of a change from the traditional, even in the civilian police world. So, the elites of the already elite Airborne MPs got the goodies. The suicide flap holster was eliminated by 2001, replaced with *horrible* Bianchi Level II holsters, that would literally jam the Berettas in... They were downright lethal, without a doubt. Way worse than the suicide flap even... We had to jam our pistols through the holster/unholster procedure hundreds of times, sometimes having to do it by teams, peeling off shreds of plastic from the Bianchi "pinch system" - until the pinch system was effectively useless as anything more than light retention, and we relief on the snap. By that time, I was a DA Civilian cop, working at Fort Greely Alaska. I still have that holster too, because by... Urggghh... 2005-ish... We standardized on the UM Level 3. Although, I also carried with a Serpa (which became the next big thing after the UM's Level 3) - again, my personality and being the first kid on the block to have the newest toy, 😆 But, that didn't last long... Even though I still think the Serpa is a BAMF. Then, eventually - as a cop for Veterans Affairs in my career - everyone went to Safariland holsters, and Uncle Mike's, became obsolete. And uh, yeah - so there's your "Holy crap that was a long post, lesson in military holster history" way of saying, holsters make all the difference - choose wisely, choose what fits, and and choose knowing that you are 100% confident, if you ever have the need in a real world "holy f'k, oh dear!"
Well, I have none of your record, but it seemed a lot like that to me as well. I wonder how the pistol would have fared if it was laying on the barrel itself. Of course, the recoil difference matters as well.
Definitely would have been closer with a better holster and/or the pistol on the table. The point Ian's trying to make is difficult since he's a good shot with pistols, and far more practiced than most line infantry were with pistols at the time, let alone support troops. The carbine is much better for someone who can't aim with a pistol, but pretty similar for someone who can. I know from experience with my Grandfather's M1911A1 and M1 Carbine from WWII that it's far easier for a novice to get shots on target with the carbine than the pistol.
I giggled like a girl everytime Ian said "Ah! Germans!" But yeah like everyone else your handgun skills are good, you'd shoot a handgun as good as a draftee if you shot 1 handed
One thing to consider is that I would think Ian has had far more handgun trigger time than the avg WW-II GI would have had which is bound to improve his 1911 times over what the avg GI would have done. This makes the M1 in my eyes at least even better than shown for it's intended propose.
I still think that if I had to chose any one gun to hand to an inexperienced shooter in a defensive situation it would still to this day be the M1 Carbine. Extremely simple, lightweight, fires a reasonably effective but low recoiling cartridge, and requires far less training to use effectively than most any other gun whether it be a rifle or handgun
Even if Ian is an experienced pistol shooter with better training then the avg soldier, the fact that the M1 still beats out the 1911 in his hands is a testament to how much better a M1 was.
@@muster3033 Well you can look at what the U.S. is doing in the current crisis, and then look at what Angela Merkel is doing in her twin crises right now, then sit back and be self-satisfied.
I remember my uncle that was fighting in WWII in Europe the term for Germans was Jerry or Kraut at that time.If you watch old WWII movies & documentaries you will hear that.
30 carbine Fired from a rifle : every one :it's under powered and won't penetrate a thick coat Fired from a pistol : weapon of mass destruction Tommy gun or 9 mm ars are fine too I don't get why some people hate 30 carbine that much
Because some people would rather pretend that a cartridge roughly equivalent to .357 magnum can't penetrate a winter coat than admit that grandpa missed.
They probably think of it as less than a full power battle rifle. By that standard it is not as good. For its intended role it seems great. Ian demonstrated its excellent shootability. In these scenarios the carbine would probably put shots on target better than the M1 Garand.
Very cool demonstration! Anecdotally, my step dad (Wilder Stanley) from Maine was a WWII truck driver in Europe. One day on an island where he was caretaker in the 80’s I watched him fire his M1 Garand open sites, folded down, at 330 yards and hit a one gallon coffee can size target dead center. After discovering this was not luck, but his skill level I asked why he was a truck driver and not a sniper or such. His reply was that most all the young men “could shoot” in those days as it was just a life skill.
This is all neat and cool but when comes the pirate version where Ian takes a blunderbuss, musket & cutlass to the challenge! Ofcourse also when he chanting sea chanties like "Leave her johnny leave her" and "WE ARE WOLVES OF THE SEAAA"
"Ahah, the blood runs cold We take our loot but don't get old Yo, yo ho Yo, yo ho All hail, the mighty He's arising from the deep With tattered sails and incredible tales we're caught in endless seas." Tattered Sails from Curse of the Vampire Coast
I mean, I'm not advocating the 1911 over the carbine, I'm just doubting that the big advantage to the carbine was how fast it could be brought to bear. I think the advantage to the M1 carbine would be apparent if the Germans surprised you at a range of 60 yards, and they had K98s.
Scott Kenny well I wasn’t saying it had to be. Was kinda making the point that bringing it over your shoulder is still gonna be faster than trying to draw from a holster.
@@alexmoore1506 yeah, I demonstrated that to a shipyard worker who thought it would be funny to make the armed guard checking his bag jump. Good thing the rifle was Condition 3.
was the .30 carbine round nose or spitzer? (not that it matters for short range, but it would cause changes in velocity and accuracy problems at range)
I wonder, provided one was stationed in States, or somewhere else where 45ACP was readily available for purchase was there a hard cap to how much you could train with your pistol? (Say that I am a staff officer or clerk, but I am really concerned that I may end up shooting some krauts with my 1911, could I simply train more than what Army required of me if I was willing to sacrifice my own time and potentially pay for ammo, or was it Regulations say you get to shoot X number of rounds in a month and so you get to shoot X number of rounds in a month)?
I've always wanted to see Ian take a non shooter and test these series. Like a day shooting an M1 Garand and then a do a match compare them to a skilled Bolt action shooter and see how they compare. Or the same with a 1911 vs the m1 carbine. You know just to see how much easier it is to pick up these weapons as a "conscript"
@@taichanie Bloke in the range mede something in the line you ask for. He bring Lindybeige and have him making mad minutes with a Mauser, a Swiss bolt action rifle, a SMLE and a Garand
Umm... I always find it useful to read what I mis-typed before hitting the Comment button. Can't really make sense of "a randomer employed a man artillery."
You should also keep in mind that Ian shot the pistol very accurately, while a random support troop in WW2 would probably miss quite a bit more and have to reload, making the gap between the 1911 and M1 much more evident
Also you have to consider the army standard issue holster at that time was to protect the pistol from mud and water, (remember the trench's of WW1). There was no army "Quick Draw" holster design criteria. So Ian was handicapped because he could not use a modern holster specifically designed for quick draw competition. Even so it displays how wide the gap could be with people who shot only rifle or shotguns, and only saw pistols in the movies.
It makes you wonder why the idea of an SBR didn't happen earlier: The biggest jump from pistol to rifle isn't in the barrel, but in the stock and handguard.
Back in the 80's, I had a commercially made M1 Carbine. It looked great after I bought an NOS wood handguard and got rid of the stamped steel one it came with new. It didn't cycle very well, it had many fail to load problems, and failure to eject spent cartridges. It was my first rifle and it didn't cost very much. If I brought it to a gunsmith, maybe it could have been polished or something done to make it run better. But, I was young and didn't know how to fix it. It never saw much use and I gave it away to a friend.
john doe he’s talking abut the concept, the philosophy of use, it’s a PDW because it’s intended to fill the roll of a PDW. Not really sure why you think a PDW has to be tied to the small projectile, high velocity concept? That’s just a more modern interpretation of how the goal would be achieved but a “PDW” is a “Personal Defence Weapon” in whatever guise that comes, not the narrow definition you think it is. Whether it was the 1st PDW is open to debate, considering guns like the Lange Pistole & stocked C96’s.
The extra 2 seconds for the 1911 on the first drill were the holster rather than the weapon. The M1 carbine is a much more effective weapon no matter what you look at. It's a little more than double the capacity, it's got a round that is as effective as 7.62x39, and it's got a much longer effective range. The only time that you would prefer a pistol as a main-arm is when there's no room to maneuver anything larger. Such as in a tunnel dug by VC.
The holster is part of the weapon system. Maybe it could have been improved for faster draw, but the fact is that if you were issued a 1911 in WWII you would almost definitely be carrying it in that type of holster, and the first thing you would have to do if you met unexpected trouble would be to draw it from said holster.
I think Ian makes an excellent point here when he says that he is a very good pistol shot - something almost no US troop would be. Their basic training covered rifle handling, and the M1 Carbine handling is almost identical to the Garand, so the carbine would be incomparably more familiar to the troops than a pistol. An interesting follow up would be to get an 'Average Joe' in to make these same shots, as I think that would widen the gap between the two weapons considerably more than Ian's higher skill shows.
I have 5 of em. All of Inland mfg (S/Ns are below 300,000 and post-war refurbished.) Issues: 1: Magazine springs (leave a mag loaded for a time and the spring gets compressed and won't spring back). 2: Feed ramp (the tip of the bullet will stick to the feed ramp so I have polished them really well, fixing the issue). 3: I cant's stand the peep sight ( so 4 have been left with original sights, and the 5th rifle has a modified open sight [chopped the top off an aftermarket peep sight and squared up the sides]). and BTW I kept the original peep sight and it can be re-fitted to the rifle.
Got a 1944 m1 carbine and love shooting it. Thank you for showing the practical difference and was enlightening :) love the channel and learn something new every time.
I honestly don't think anyone in the german side was using stocked Lugers in WWII. that was a thing in WW1, in trench raids, and for artillery lugers almost exclusively. By WWII I don't think anyone was putting a stock on his luger anymore.
@@ramjb You might be right, I'm just going off Wikipedia, but it says that artillery lugers that were in storage during WW2 had new stocks made and were reissued to some artillery crews. A braced or stocked pistol just seems like the perfect compromise between ease of use and ease of carry to my mind, I would like to see how close it goes.
I think you'd be in a 'the worst of all worlds' situation with the stocked pistol: almost the weight and bulk of the M1, with the barrel length and round of a standard pistol.
@@jic1 The 8" barrel on the LP.08 should give the 9mm a little bit of a velocity boost but the M1 carbine will still have the advantage. Out to 100 yards the M1 is comparable to .357 Magnum. If you've never handled an M1 it's surprisingly handy. It reminds me of a Ruger 10/22.
Seemed that the 1911 was excessively handicapped by being in the strap holster while having the carbine easily accessible, how often would a GI have had the carbine on the seat beside him? More likely behind the seat and certainly not conveniently on a barrel within reach
It's good to see things that we all think we know tested. Whether or not the test turns out as I thought it would, I still learn something useful. I was pretty sure the carbine would prove to be a more capable self-defense weapon but I'd never actually seen that tested until now.
Interesting video, I worked at V-Corps in 80-90’s, a co worker was a retiree, that during WWII was an aid to General Patton, during the war he was issued the 30 carbine, was not excited about its knock down - kill power during his use of it. His name was Arthur Vess.
Why wouldn't it? Very accurate, reliable pistol firing bowling balls. If it wasn't a great pistol, it wouldn't be in use today by millions of people for competition, self defense and recreation well over a hundred years after its design. Its only downside is capacity, but even that issue is addressed by this thing called "reloading".
Yeah, I noticed that too. A southpaw trying to operate a right-handed gun is at quite the disadvantage I would imagine. Either they have to operate it right-handed, which probably feels very awkward for them, or they have some difficulties with things like the charging handle or other features being on the wrong side if they try to use it left-handed.
@@kentvesser9484 the charging handles on guns like the M1, ak, m1a, 10/22 and the like are great for lefties. Especially if they have a centered paddle type mag release (like most i listed). It allows us to keep our trigger hand on the gun and more or less keep it shouldered while charging the firearm without the need to reach around the weapon (like right handed folk have to do). Pistols on the other hand are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
I love the way you have highlighted the "Purpose" behind weapon development. I wondered why with the M1 you would need a carbine? Your practical shooting test answered that question.
At the time the M-1 Carbine was developed farm kids and townies were used to shooting .22 rifles, the carbine is very easy to shoot. I know, I had access to one when I was a kid. Very few had ever fired a pistol.
Your skill with a handgun, something most draftees would not have, was the only thing that kept it close.
Good point
Eric Sales of a tea cup grip like you’ll also see in WWII training videos.
Very true about the pistol skills. I see that manifest amongst many modern day soldiers and marines. In fact, I started out the same way and then came to be one one of the weirdos with a higher pistol badge than the rifle badge. That can be chalked up to me getting into pistol competitions like IDPA, USPSA and steel challenge though and me not having access to rifle ranges over 100-200 yards.
Boot camp. Dad once said, you cant hit anything with a 45 at this distance. Ge was then ordered to stand beside the target. Learned to keep his mouth shut after that
So true. I would bet most of their pistol times would be three to four times as long in some instances.
Garand Thumb: "Now I'm not gonna go into the entire history of this thing, I'm not Forgotten Weapons..."
Forgotten Weapons: "AHH! GERMANS!"
If you've ever given away your position by shouting "AHH GERMANS", go ahead and hit that subscribe button
@@kyuzotatsuya9641 LOL!!!
That was the best April Fools I ever saw.
@@kyuzotatsuya9641 Guys, WELCOME to the channel, the comments section is COMPLETELY out of control...
I will not try to control you.
@@kyuzotatsuya9641 Genuinely laughed reading that comment.
I know he is trying to represent a WW2 US soldier, but for some reason, Ian looks more like a US backed dictator in some foreign country. All he is missing are some medals and a cigar.
the sunglasses really point in that direction
@TheT34Tank They wasted all of their money for the reconnaissance M3 Bradley so gun jesus is pretty much all they can hire
Ian McCollum, "The Butcher of Elbonia"
Ian for El Presidente!
Dictator Jesus?
What's better than Ian yelling "Ah, Germans!"?
Two Ians yelling "Ah, Germans!" of course!
Am sure Karl is going to rag him about it!
I have to make a sample lmao
Should yelled "Krauts!!"
He's got to work on his "Ah, Germans" split. It's hard because the shot timer probably doesn't pick it up.
4:43
why not use timestamps
We need a WWII game where Ian cameos, and his line is "AH GERMANS"
LOL
A video game which in that game Ian trains you and explains pros and cons of the weapons you can pick.
@@benamini5701 problem....It would take me hours to get to the actual game play....
Goldmarble “Okay lets start from the beginning and this time we’ll organize it alphabetically instead of by category.”
Have him a cameo in his gun jesus persona and the last thing he says is "AHH germans" and is gone
Ian's "Ah, germans!" Sounds more like being pleasantly surprised than caught off guard.
“Ah, the ATF is at my door” he said being pleasantly surprised
Wesley Alth I mean it would so I could test some IEDs lol
More lambs to the slaughter
This reminds me of a training officer I talked with who said the only purpose of a pistol was to give you time to get to a rifle.
Ah yeah, I recall hearing the same thing somewhere
I remember being told the only purpose of a pistol was so officers had something to hand over when they had to surrender.
The @ChieftainWG said something similar "the pistol is to keep their heads down untill I found a new tank"
The full line is, "the purpose of a pistol is to let you fight your way back to the long gun you never should have put down in the first place."
@@melc311 I'd rather have a sword than a pistol. But that may be influenced by the fact I have greater faith in my swordsmanship than my pistol skills.
This is the strangest French uniform I’ve seen him wear so far.
La Resistance perhaps?
Not completely unprecedented:
rarehistoricalphotos.com/black-soldiers-fighting-france-1944/
Free French.
Love the insult "were it not for America, France would be speaking German" because they understand English thanks to America.
the only insult that’s better than that is “If it weren’t for the Allies, Poland would be speaking German,” to which a Polish person would probably respond with “I demand an apology”
I really appreciate the amount of roleplaying in these tests. If Mythbusters were ever to be revived, Ian would be a great host for the gun myths.
@TheT34Tank Adam said he wanted to do something else after working on nothing but MB at all times for, what was it, a decade? And Jamie always maintained he was more comfortable behind the scenes than in front of a camera. I think the show could've kept going with the build team, but the network was looking to simultaneously cut costs while constantly ramping up the spectacle and it wasn't a feasible plan.
Technically is was revived, but with worse hosts that had less personality and who just tried to emulate Jamie and Adam.
I've lost quite a bit of respect for Adam Savage due to his big mouth on Twitter so I'm hesitant to bother with his work anymore, but it's hard to argue that anyone could replace the original duo. I saw Mythbusters Live several years ago. The show itself was a rather simple affair but it was worth it simply to listen to Jamie and Adam talk in depth about what they did for two hours. Maybe in another generation the concept might be worth reviving, but right now I think it's best to just let sleeping dogs lie.
@@herbderbler1585 Sorry you are intellectually inferior.
@@herbderbler1585 After watching adam on tested is pretty obvious that jamie was the brains and adam was mostly a tv presenter on mythbusters. which makes sense jamie has a huge and varied career history and adam just made laser cut models for a living
1% 1911
1% M1 Carbine
98% "AHH, GERMANS!"
One thing that must be taken into account: I bet Ian shoots more rounds in a week than a WW2 support solder shot in a year.
Ian also uses a two handed grip that wasn't taught at the time. And speaking as a totally novice shooter, I found firing full power rifles a lot easier to get on target than the 9mm I tried afterwards, so I can really visualise the advantage the carbine offers even with minimal training.
Yeah, after basic training, I bet a lot of soldiers in support roles hardly fired a round partly due to a lack of access to ranges to train on and partly due to the cost and logistical drain of all the ammunition needed for them to be training regularly. Even infantrymen probably didn't get that much range time after their MOS training except in cases where they were stationed at a base in theater for an extended period like in England waiting for D-Day.
I'm currently reading "Shots Fired In Anger" by Lt.Col. John George. The only rifle training the men of his machine gun platoon got prior to shipping out for the Pacific was one morning with some basic instruction on sight alignment and trigger squeeze and fifteen rounds each.
"Ah! Germans!"
- when you reach a point in a game you can't get over and you keep reloading that same save for many, many times.
No surprising results here. And that's taking into account that the simulations done here are relatively favorable to the 1911. In RL situations, support crews would typically engage enemies at distances where the 1911 is not even viable.
So if you put the two weapons into conditions advantageous to the 1911 and it still loses, that says something.
Stevarooni i mean... what did you expect? 1911 is a sidearm that you go to when the big guns run out
Can see why the US considered dropping M1911 as a side arm in favor of the M1(A1?)
TrolltheBurrito Or when exploring doorways, tunnels and other such things.
Jeffrey Root exactly, they both have their intended purposes
"Aagh! Germans!"
US soldiers apparently only noticed the huns when they were a mere 10 yards away... Probs to German camouflage!
@@zoiders The hedge rows speak German, the hills speak Chinese, the trees speak Vietnamese, the sand speaks Arabic, the mountains speak Pashton, but the rooftops speak Korean.
Coleman Moore You forgot the snow speaking Finnish kjeh kjeh perkele
@@zoiders but the sky sings Glenn Miller
I also doubt that WW2 GIs use the "Jeff Cooper" double hand 'advanced method' pistol grip (as it did not exist in WW2) and likely used only their strong hand.
There's a few training videos online from that time-frame with exactly that stance - strong hand only. It would add a fair bit of time to each stage if Ian (or really anyone) had shot with that style.
The 1 handed method was taught in the US Army even well after WW2
It was either single hand or tea cupping
th-cam.com/video/jP7J-JNSUu4/w-d-xo.html
They were really trained to point shoot. Good point shooting is much faster, and I train this way every chance I get. Past 25 feet accuracy drops off, but the speed. Also I don’t have the best eyes in the world and I am cross eyed dominate, so it takes me longer than average to pick up the front sight.
It worked for Tom Hanks. And he blew up a whole tank!
Next time Ian visits The Grey Room:
“Ah! Germans!”
You really want him to get kicked out, don't you.?😂
CRIKEY AHHH GERMANS
i lol'ed
American ETO G.I.'s:
"Ah! Germans!"
German Panzer Crews:
"Ah! Shermans!"
The numbers still overwhelmed still got their asses kicked
@@jamesd4923 hah?
Someone knocks on the door:
"Ah! Mormons!"
Lol, I heard him saying "Ah, Shermans" the first three times tbh, and wondered why he was saying that, then realised what he was actually saying :)
@@silkyz68 "Ah, Jehovas witnesses!"
I feel like a perfect opportunity was missed to combine "Oh my god, the tank is on fire!" and "Argh! Germans!" in the same scenario.
That would be an interesting test: Evacuate a Sherman as quickly as possible, then pick up your weapon from the table and engage the plates.
@@Vnx evac with the side arm
What video is "Oh my god, the tank is on fire!" from?
@@cB-sr9kd It's from Chieftain's tank videos. He says that line and sees how quick he can get out of a tank.
HANZ, ZEE TRANZMITION IZNT VORKENG!
This is more a weapons system comparison rather than just the weapon. The incredibly slow times for the 1911, can in part be attributed to the ridiculously slow holster. Therefore probably making it an even more accurate comparison under pressure.
Well, you have to conder the Ian is an expert shot with a pistol, as opposed to Joe Bazooka who was not nearly as well practiced with pistols.
A LOT of what I see, is the trouble Ian is having with the "suicide flap" holster.
When I was an MP at Bragg in the late 90s, we were going through a monumental equipment shift, from "military gear" to "civilian gear."
Yep, back then, it was the military who looked to civilian cops for advice... Not like that today... Hasn't since 9/11... But, I digress.
I was issued a suicide flap holster, in OD Green (as was the MP Duty belt configuration of the time) and we called them that for a reason...
Not only did you have to fight with, and hold up the flap, the friction inside the holster during the draw, would cause the whole f'n holster to flip up, and jam everything up.
Every time, throughout this video, you can see Gun Jeebus encountering these problems.
When the MPs switched to "real cop" equipment, we went with Bianchi. And they actually made those flap holsters in black, I still have mine - they were sold commercially too, I didn't steal, I just bought mine before they were issued. I'm stylish like that. 😏😎
Now, they did make a thumb-break snap "conversion" which eliminated the suicide flap, and I also had that, and it was a game changer, for that holster.
The Uncle Mike's Level 3 holster was THE hot item at the time, and UM's had since gone to complete shit. Only the K9s, and a few other very specialized individual MPs (like wildlife and traffic crash investigators, etc) were issued them, because the Uncle Mike's was that goddamn radical of a change from the traditional, even in the civilian police world. So, the elites of the already elite Airborne MPs got the goodies.
The suicide flap holster was eliminated by 2001, replaced with *horrible* Bianchi Level II holsters, that would literally jam the Berettas in... They were downright lethal, without a doubt. Way worse than the suicide flap even... We had to jam our pistols through the holster/unholster procedure hundreds of times, sometimes having to do it by teams, peeling off shreds of plastic from the Bianchi "pinch system" - until the pinch system was effectively useless as anything more than light retention, and we relief on the snap. By that time, I was a DA Civilian cop, working at Fort Greely Alaska. I still have that holster too, because by... Urggghh... 2005-ish... We standardized on the UM Level 3. Although, I also carried with a Serpa (which became the next big thing after the UM's Level 3) - again, my personality and being the first kid on the block to have the newest toy, 😆 But, that didn't last long... Even though I still think the Serpa is a BAMF.
Then, eventually - as a cop for Veterans Affairs in my career - everyone went to Safariland holsters, and Uncle Mike's, became obsolete.
And uh, yeah - so there's your "Holy crap that was a long post, lesson in military holster history" way of saying, holsters make all the difference - choose wisely, choose what fits, and and choose knowing that you are 100% confident, if you ever have the need in a real world "holy f'k, oh dear!"
Well, I have none of your record, but it seemed a lot like that to me as well. I wonder how the pistol would have fared if it was laying on the barrel itself.
Of course, the recoil difference matters as well.
Definitely would have been closer with a better holster and/or the pistol on the table. The point Ian's trying to make is difficult since he's a good shot with pistols, and far more practiced than most line infantry were with pistols at the time, let alone support troops. The carbine is much better for someone who can't aim with a pistol, but pretty similar for someone who can. I know from experience with my Grandfather's M1911A1 and M1 Carbine from WWII that it's far easier for a novice to get shots on target with the carbine than the pistol.
"AH! GERMANS!"
My new text notification
As a German, I'm going to use this phrase randomly from now on.
"Are we the baddies?"- some German offscreen.
"Mein Leben!"
Ach ! Ian ! Wo ist mein MG ?
I giggled like a girl everytime Ian said "Ah! Germans!" But yeah like everyone else your handgun skills are good, you'd shoot a handgun as good as a draftee if you shot 1 handed
One thing to consider is that I would think Ian has had far more handgun trigger time than the avg WW-II GI would have had which is bound to improve his 1911 times over what the avg GI would have done. This makes the M1 in my eyes at least even better than shown for it's intended propose.
The gap would widen massively if a less experienced shooter did this test, they should try that.
Yeah, it shows how much it improved the ability of a GI to defend himself.
I still think that if I had to chose any one gun to hand to an inexperienced shooter in a defensive situation it would still to this day be the M1 Carbine. Extremely simple, lightweight, fires a reasonably effective but low recoiling cartridge, and requires far less training to use effectively than most any other gun whether it be a rifle or handgun
He is also shooting using both hands and if i recall correctly that wasn't taught at the time
Even if Ian is an experienced pistol shooter with better training then the avg soldier, the fact that the M1 still beats out the 1911 in his hands is a testament to how much better a M1 was.
Hey, that soldier’s facial hair and haircut violate Army regulations.
He is an OSS advisor to the French Resistance.
Gun Jesus does not violate any regulation lol
Slow your roll there Patton.
Well maybe not in the 19th century.
Just how dare you suspect the grooming standards of Gun Jesus?
Every time you say M1 Carbine, I can hear the faintest whisper of Karl booing.
I hope he was the cameraman for this video
M1 Carbines are supposed to FTF sometimes. Its part of it.
@@rollastudent No. That's definitely not Karl.
Nick Valletta had mine eject the entire bolt one time. Surprisingly don’t get many malfunctions though
Talltale eject the bolt? Impressive
1911: Aaah! Germans!
M1 Carbine: Aaah. Germans.
Well-played.
Ian: “ Ah! Germans!” Opens fire.
Good reflexes there.
better than "Ah! Germans!" then running away right
Alexander Seven but he said Germans, so it’s fine.
@@AlexanderSeven But he is not a cop.
New shot timer beep has to be “AH GERMANS”
I now want "AH-Germans!" as my phone's notification sound. Just to keep me alert.
As a German I feel offended
😂😂😂
@@muster3033 Well you can look at what the U.S. is doing in the current crisis, and then look at what Angela Merkel is doing in her twin crises right now, then sit back and be self-satisfied.
Please, for the love of god, don't use your side arm to shoot some innocent plates when you receive a text notification ^^
Can we get an "AAGH, GERMANS!!" T-shirt?
Please upvote so Ian will see this!
With HK416 on it, please!
Lol I was thinking maybe a sticker😂
My only complaint about this video is that it wasn't longer.
Rather a video feel too short than too long.
Dude’s willingly wearing that attire in Pima county at this time of year. That is dedication lol
_Random German viewers watching_
Ian: *Aagh! Germans!*
Germans: _Aagh! Germans!_
_Mein Gott! Die Deutschen sind hier!_
Nice
'Don't talk about the war." Basil Fawlty ... it's a cruel world.
I remember my uncle that was fighting in WWII in Europe the term for Germans was Jerry or Kraut at that time.If you watch old WWII movies & documentaries you will hear that.
I am german. I can't agree with you.
Germans: Yay Germans! Ve're Saved!
30 carbine
Fired from a rifle : every one :it's under powered and won't penetrate a thick coat
Fired from a pistol : weapon of mass destruction
Tommy gun or 9 mm ars are fine too
I don't get why some people hate 30 carbine that much
Because some people would rather pretend that a cartridge roughly equivalent to .357 magnum can't penetrate a winter coat than admit that grandpa missed.
They probably think of it as less than a full power battle rifle. By that standard it is not as good. For its intended role it seems great. Ian demonstrated its excellent shootability. In these scenarios the carbine would probably put shots on target better than the M1 Garand.
@@jic1 ROFL, that's savage! Mostly because it's true!
Paul Harrell has a great presentation on why the M1 carbine has the reputation it has, and why it’s flawed
That "vintage" holster is sooooo slow! I had never seen one "in action", thanks a lot!
Well its primary function is to keep the gun clean and ready, not speed trials.
Soooo slow and isnt even damascus camo what a noob huh
Very cool demonstration!
Anecdotally, my step dad (Wilder Stanley) from Maine was a WWII truck driver in Europe. One day on an island where he was caretaker in the 80’s I watched him fire his M1 Garand open sites, folded down, at 330 yards and hit a one gallon coffee can size target dead center. After discovering this was not luck, but his skill level I asked why he was a truck driver and not a sniper or such. His reply was that most all the young men “could shoot” in those days as it was just a life skill.
This is all neat and cool but when comes the pirate version where Ian takes a blunderbuss, musket & cutlass to the challenge! Ofcourse also when he chanting sea chanties like "Leave her johnny leave her" and "WE ARE WOLVES OF THE SEAAA"
Just for giggles and grins I'd like to see him take a slug loaded 12 Gage and a AR 15 pistol to a match.
Will there be pegleg division and hook division? Parrots give extra points. Note: Norwegian Blue wont do.
Don't forget Alestorm
"Ahah, the blood runs cold
We take our loot but don't get old
Yo, yo ho
Yo, yo ho
All hail, the mighty
He's arising from the deep
With tattered sails
and incredible tales
we're caught in endless seas."
Tattered Sails from Curse of the Vampire Coast
Taistelukalkkuna the Norwegian Blue is too easily tired from prolonged squawking
I feel it's redundant at this point, but: "Ah, Germans!"
I mean, I'm not advocating the 1911 over the carbine, I'm just doubting that the big advantage to the carbine was how fast it could be brought to bear. I think the advantage to the M1 carbine would be apparent if the Germans surprised you at a range of 60 yards, and they had K98s.
that's just the way it is in real life. you'd carry the pistol in a holster, and plop the rifle anywhere that's easy to reach.
Basket Case typically slung over your shoulder
@@alexmoore1506 yes, but the match safety rules typically don't like that. So we had it flopped wherever.
Scott Kenny well I wasn’t saying it had to be. Was kinda making the point that bringing it over your shoulder is still gonna be faster than trying to draw from a holster.
@@alexmoore1506 yeah, I demonstrated that to a shipyard worker who thought it would be funny to make the armed guard checking his bag jump. Good thing the rifle was Condition 3.
This episode should be called “The Medic’s Wrath”
110 grain .30 caliber bullet @ 2100 fps - anemic joke caliber
110 grain .30 caliber bullet @ 2200 fps -
Godsend 300 blackout.
On the other side of the spectrum from fudds, is the tactitards lol
was the .30 carbine round nose or spitzer? (not that it matters for short range, but it would cause changes in velocity and accuracy problems at range)
@@BillMcD All military ammo is round nose ball.
@@shawnr771 I was under the impression the 5.56×45mm NATO round was a spitzer.
@@briancantrell1050 I believe he was talking specifically about the .30 Carbine.
Watching forgotten weapons and Inrange for years, i really feel i can see Ian becoming a better and better shot
that makes me happy
My grandpa had an M1 carbine and it might very well be the easiest and accurate rifle I have ever used.
They are very shootable and easy to handle and Carry. Never had outstanding accuracy from mine.
The side by side comparison is the best way to demonstrate this.
Moreover, you mentioned being a good shot with a pistol, but a randomer employed to man artillery wouldn't have that luxury
it even further proves the point that M1 was more effective
I wonder, provided one was stationed in States, or somewhere else where 45ACP was readily available for purchase was there a hard cap to how much you could train with your pistol? (Say that I am a staff officer or clerk, but I am really concerned that I may end up shooting some krauts with my 1911, could I simply train more than what Army required of me if I was willing to sacrifice my own time and potentially pay for ammo, or was it Regulations say you get to shoot X number of rounds in a month and so you get to shoot X number of rounds in a month)?
I've always wanted to see Ian take a non shooter and test these series. Like a day shooting an M1 Garand and then a do a match compare them to a skilled Bolt action shooter and see how they compare. Or the same with a 1911 vs the m1 carbine. You know just to see how much easier it is to pick up these weapons as a "conscript"
@@taichanie Bloke in the range mede something in the line you ask for. He bring Lindybeige and have him making mad minutes with a Mauser, a Swiss bolt action rifle, a SMLE and a Garand
Umm... I always find it useful to read what I mis-typed before hitting the Comment button. Can't really make sense of "a randomer employed a man artillery."
Imagine Ian waking up at 3 am and screaming: Ah! Germans! then shooting a light bulb
I don't get how the same people rag on "ineffectiveness" of the M1 carbine yet lionize the 1911 as a wmd class god slayer...tWo WoRLd waRS
Because people expect the m1 carbine to do something it was never meant to do, which is basically be a rifle. It’s definitely not that.
Texas Forever oh you’re right, that extra 200 fps makes that .30 caliber 110 grain bullet the godsend .300 blackout, I forgot tacticool > physics.
Texas Forever 5.45 7N6 is an anemic pistol caliber cartridge too, because it has identical muzzle energy.
I like both. I'd love to have an M1 carbine.
@@-John-Doe- How does someone get so fired up (pun intended) over a piece of mechanical hardware.
Very interesting proof of concept, thank you for your time posting this.
Not a "proof of concept" as the Carbine was never intended to replace the 1911
Experimental industrial archeology, that is.
A history teacher of mine threw Roman pila and tested their effectiveness as part of his thesis.
That why I like Ian and Karl.
The historical uses, make the historical weapons we used.
love watching you shoot, my dad was a WW2 vet and a lefty also. Thanks for the memories
You should also keep in mind that Ian shot the pistol very accurately, while a random support troop in WW2 would probably miss quite a bit more and have to reload, making the gap between the 1911 and M1 much more evident
Also you have to consider the army standard issue holster at that time was to protect the pistol from mud and water, (remember the trench's of WW1). There was no army "Quick Draw" holster design criteria. So Ian was handicapped because he could not use a modern holster specifically designed for quick draw competition. Even so it displays how wide the gap could be with people who shot only rifle or shotguns, and only saw pistols in the movies.
Ian...you are a delight! You make learning a fun adventure. Thank you or your hard work, having fun, and taking us along.
Shouldered arms are better, obviously. It’s a light and handy weapon no doubt.
Forgot...Germans? That’s a strange thing to say.
It makes you wonder why the idea of an SBR didn't happen earlier: The biggest jump from pistol to rifle isn't in the barrel, but in the stock and handguard.
I have an old M1 passed down from my grandpa from WWII. Just took it out yesterday to shoot. Love LOVE that rifle.
I would 100% chose the Carbine, im not a shooter so i think it would be beneficial for me.
Ian makes shooting a pistol look much easier than it is. Rifles are simple to score hits with but pistols require a high degree of training.
Back in the 80's, I had a commercially made M1 Carbine. It looked great after I bought an NOS wood handguard and got rid of the stamped steel one it came with new. It didn't cycle very well, it had many fail to load problems, and failure to eject spent cartridges. It was my first rifle and it didn't cost very much. If I brought it to a gunsmith, maybe it could have been polished or something done to make it run better. But, I was young and didn't know how to fix it. It never saw much use and I gave it away to a friend.
Gun Jesus: *GERMANS!* *Unholsters 1911*
The German audience: *Extreme screams of fear*
My father, who was a corporal with a USAAF air reconnaissance HQ, was issued a carbine.
M1 carbine: The first PDW.
How is a 110 gr .30 caliber bullet at 2100 fps with an 18” barrel a pdw?
Or did someone just tell you that?
Someone told him that 30 years ago and he's just been repeating it ever since.
@@-John-Doe- you probably are confused with what exactly a "pdw" is.
@@-John-Doe- You do realise that the M1 & M2 Carbines are pretty widely recognised as the forerunners to the PDW concept, right?
john doe he’s talking abut the concept, the philosophy of use, it’s a PDW because it’s intended to fill the roll of a PDW. Not really sure why you think a PDW has to be tied to the small projectile, high velocity concept? That’s just a more modern interpretation of how the goal would be achieved but a “PDW” is a “Personal Defence Weapon” in whatever guise that comes, not the narrow definition you think it is. Whether it was the 1st PDW is open to debate, considering guns like the Lange Pistole & stocked C96’s.
This back up pistol match is a great testing bed. Love to watch this!
The extra 2 seconds for the 1911 on the first drill were the holster rather than the weapon.
The M1 carbine is a much more effective weapon no matter what you look at. It's a little more than double the capacity, it's got a round that is as effective as 7.62x39, and it's got a much longer effective range. The only time that you would prefer a pistol as a main-arm is when there's no room to maneuver anything larger. Such as in a tunnel dug by VC.
Thought tunnel rats went for revolvers
@@paulelliott6673 Yeah I heard that the 1911 would make ears bleed in the tunnels or something like that
The holster is part of the weapon system. Maybe it could have been improved for faster draw, but the fact is that if you were issued a 1911 in WWII you would almost definitely be carrying it in that type of holster, and the first thing you would have to do if you met unexpected trouble would be to draw it from said holster.
Very very happy to see this on the clock and score chart instead of conversationally. Thank you Ian and Forgotten Weapons team!
Neat, I always wondered which would be better. I always would have thought that the pistol would be better for compact size
a pistol is good until you have to fire it.
Well, if you're not going to fire it, it's most certainly better one to lug around
A pistols compact size it the reason for all of there other shortcomings
Pistols look silly with a bayonet fixed, just sayin
A pistol is easier to carry all day, it's half the weight of even an m1 carbine and just sits on your belt.
A carbine is so much easier to hit with.
Really informative.
If I was in the field I would want both carbine and some kind of handgun1911,A1, 1915,1909, pickup P38, etc.
While I love the "in the field" feel, microphone windscreen covers are a thing
Yes! The low frequency wind noise in this video is terrible.
I love how you were so excited. Nice to see you having your dream job!
"AH! GERMANS!" My new ringtone.
I've wanted to see that comparison for a long time. Thank you, lan!
I think Ian makes an excellent point here when he says that he is a very good pistol shot - something almost no US troop would be. Their basic training covered rifle handling, and the M1 Carbine handling is almost identical to the Garand, so the carbine would be incomparably more familiar to the troops than a pistol. An interesting follow up would be to get an 'Average Joe' in to make these same shots, as I think that would widen the gap between the two weapons considerably more than Ian's higher skill shows.
I have 5 of em. All of Inland mfg (S/Ns are below 300,000 and post-war refurbished.) Issues: 1: Magazine springs (leave a mag loaded for a time and the spring gets compressed and won't spring back). 2: Feed ramp (the tip of the bullet will stick to the feed ramp so I have polished them really well, fixing the issue). 3: I cant's stand the peep sight ( so 4 have been left with original sights, and the 5th rifle has a modified open sight [chopped the top off an aftermarket peep sight and squared up the sides]). and BTW I kept the original peep sight and it can be re-fitted to the rifle.
I love the way he says "ah Germans"
Got a 1944 m1 carbine and love shooting it. Thank you for showing the practical difference and was enlightening :) love the channel and learn something new every time.
More match footage! Yes! I for one like it
That was a really interesting practical demonstration! Thank you.
Would love to see M1 carbine vs a stocked Luger or other stocked pistol of the period
I honestly don't think anyone in the german side was using stocked Lugers in WWII. that was a thing in WW1, in trench raids, and for artillery lugers almost exclusively. By WWII I don't think anyone was putting a stock on his luger anymore.
@@ramjb You might be right, I'm just going off Wikipedia, but it says that artillery lugers that were in storage during WW2 had new stocks made and were reissued to some artillery crews. A braced or stocked pistol just seems like the perfect compromise between ease of use and ease of carry to my mind, I would like to see how close it goes.
@@Dave-Shearer The short sight radius and tiny sights of the LP.08 would still favor the M1 carbine.
I think you'd be in a 'the worst of all worlds' situation with the stocked pistol: almost the weight and bulk of the M1, with the barrel length and round of a standard pistol.
@@jic1 The 8" barrel on the LP.08 should give the 9mm a little bit of a velocity boost but the M1 carbine will still have the advantage. Out to 100 yards the M1 is comparable to .357 Magnum. If you've never handled an M1 it's surprisingly handy. It reminds me of a Ruger 10/22.
I don't claim know how you or anyone else would fare in combat, but that, sir, was rather extraordinary ! Bravo!
Seemed that the 1911 was excessively handicapped by being in the strap holster while having the carbine easily accessible, how often would a GI have had the carbine on the seat beside him? More likely behind the seat and certainly not conveniently on a barrel within reach
Your still not having to mess with buttons and flaps plus all the other advantages the M1 offers
It's good to see things that we all think we know tested. Whether or not the test turns out as I thought it would, I still learn something useful. I was pretty sure the carbine would prove to be a more capable self-defense weapon but I'd never actually seen that tested until now.
Its like he's cosplaying Oddball from Kellys Heroes
Oddball had a Luger, but I like the reference...
going by his quickdraw technique it was more Sgt Schultz :P
woof woof woof.
Thank you for what might be your best video ever. I must add all your work is very good if not excellent (usually excellent ).
Got a duolingo notification right before you shouted the “Ah! Germans!” lmao
i watch your vids before i go to sleep....so relaxing
"Ah germans "
Nice
Interesting video, I worked at V-Corps in 80-90’s, a co worker was a retiree, that during WWII was an aid to General Patton, during the war he was issued the 30 carbine, was not excited about its knock down - kill power during his use of it. His name was Arthur Vess.
AHHHHH Germans
Was looking for this commt lol
@@BestWeedVideos can you explain me what is this refrencing?
@@danieltsiprun8080 3:55
@@IonoTheFanatics i can't believe i actually missed that.
@@danieltsiprun8080 I guess you missed the whole video then. He said it literally before every drill.
This was cool to watch. I'd love to see more comparisons like this one.
Every time he shouts"Ahh Germans!" It gets funnier and funnier
No it didn't. A German.
That was really, really cool! Nice shooting, great challenge
I will be very surprised if the 1911 does well
Ian does like obscure old pistols no one's ever heard of.
I'll be shocked if it doesn't. If we were allowed firearms in the UK it's the one I'd want lol
Prepare your best surprised Pikachu face then lol
Why wouldn't it? Very accurate, reliable pistol firing bowling balls. If it wasn't a great pistol, it wouldn't be in use today by millions of people for competition, self defense and recreation well over a hundred years after its design. Its only downside is capacity, but even that issue is addressed by this thing called "reloading".
It does pretty well, but IIRC Ian has shot pistols competetively so he's a lot better with it then a WW2 GI would be.
Love the top and bottom split for comparison. Moar.
Imagine how much faster you would be if you were right handed. Lol
Yeah, I noticed that too. A southpaw trying to operate a right-handed gun is at quite the disadvantage I would imagine. Either they have to operate it right-handed, which probably feels very awkward for them, or they have some difficulties with things like the charging handle or other features being on the wrong side if they try to use it left-handed.
@@kentvesser9484 the charging handles on guns like the M1, ak, m1a, 10/22 and the like are great for lefties. Especially if they have a centered paddle type mag release (like most i listed).
It allows us to keep our trigger hand on the gun and more or less keep it shouldered while charging the firearm without the need to reach around the weapon (like right handed folk have to do).
Pistols on the other hand are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
I love the way you have highlighted the "Purpose" behind weapon development. I wondered why with the M1 you would need a carbine? Your practical shooting test answered that question.
I want "Aagh Germans!" for my alarm clock sound
If this is even close I’ll be impressed the carbine just has an advantage in almost every category
Carry is about it. If you can't afford the length or weight of a carbine, though, you're in very unusual conditions.
“Was it Ze Germans?”
Keine Ahnung. Ich glaube die habt ihr im Zweiten Weltkrieg bekämpft.
Japanese: Why does everyone forget about us! We fought too!
Italians: Wait, you guys are suppose to fight?
At the time the M-1 Carbine was developed farm kids and townies were used to shooting .22 rifles, the carbine is very easy to shoot. I know, I had access to one when I was a kid. Very few had ever fired a pistol.
"Ah, Germans!" if i had a nickel...
Ian, keep up the good work. Always a good day when I see a new video of yours.
Carbine time savings: skipping "aagh" and going straight to "Germans!"
Can we just agree having both the 1911 and the M1 Carbine would exponentially increase the cool factor.