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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ต.ค. 2024
- Last night, Charles Murray, the author of the Bell Curve, spoke at the University of Michigan. The 23 year old book, which famously argued that black people, on average, had lower IQs than whites, has been widely discredited, and Murray has long been considered irrelevant.
But that changed after a talk he gave at Middlebury College this March was shut down by activists who shouted him off stage -- using tactics that have been condemned by both liberal and conservative pundits.
Since then, Murray’s made a comeback, and become a hot ticket among campus conservatives.
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At no point in this documentary did I hear the man explain his views in his own words. Why did that get left on the cutting room floor Vice?
Yea, I noticed that too. Unbelievable.
Vice died when Gavin left.
Because it’s vice
because facts hurt.. lol
i thought this was a very reasoned treatment compared to most leftwing media these days and was impressed until i noticed that this comment was true
"when you tear out a mans tongue, you aren't proving he's a liar: only showing that you fear what he might say"
Thanks Tyrion
They aren’t shutting him down to prove he’s a liar but to stop his misinformed pseudoscience bs infecting society further
goofydog07 “they aren’t trying to prove he’s a liar” *same breathe* “but stop his misinformation”. LOL you people are so dumb and contradictory
@@N0n0b0dy ? why u so angry?
his claims have been disproved to death.
Still people believe him.
So they try to stop him getting an audience.
I don't see the contradiction
@@goofydog07 wrong, he was right and wrote a 600 page book, you just want to silence the truth. thats all communist ever do
"Fascist ideologies shouldn't be given a platform" how ironic
The squashing of freedom of speech is in and of itself, fascist. Of coarse this narrow minded children don't understand that. They are doing the exact same thing as Trump does when he calls media fake and holds private rallies for his governmental run for office.
America isn't for protecting your feelings or shielding you from the truth, the truth will hurt more then it won't. The ability to process the truth and make a better country to live in on the other side of that truth is what will get us back on track, not this bullshit.
It doesn't matter who's smarter then who in a general sense, there are many brilliant people of all skin colors. Instead of huddling your own team try practicing diversity and exercise the melting pot that America is meant to be.
they're on their college campus - so they're able to control what goes on there. this is America - you can't tell them what they can and can't do on THEIR campus.
Its also everybody elses campus, even if they disagree with your viewpoint or political leaning.
@J.I Vargas - Was about to post the same thing, but then saw you already hit the nail on the head. 👌
Actually media has been fake news for a long time...welcome to the new millennium...?
Charles Murray actually seems like a really good guy. It’s too bad Vice didn’t even give him an opportunity to speak. Deplorable.
That’s Vice for you! Classic Vice!
Absolutely. It's the same case for jared taylor; totally slandered by the media but if you bothered to listen to any debate or interview with him, youll find that he's nothing like they say. Total class act. Rational, reasonable. Nothing he's said comes close to "white supremacy"
White nationalists and social Darwinists aren’t good people. They’re fascists.
@@aceboogisback9946there’s an IQ gap. Get over it. I’m sorry your ceiling is an IQ score of 75, but don’t shoot the messenger.
@@justingarland8859 No one’s going to take you guys seriously if you use conjecture and prejudgment on everyone that challenges your opinions. Your reply is a perfect example. You automatically lose in a debate with someone darker than you as your entire argument centers around perceiving that opponent as less. Comments like “your IQ score is a ceiling of 75” are self-defeating if your aim is to enter a conversation.
College has turned into day care
These imbeciles are doing wonders for the WN movement.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon.
All these universities are going to go bankrupt.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash no Obama left a few years ago lol😂😂
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash it's funny how you guys blame whites for taking away freedom because of race and then do the exact same thing and dont see hypocrisy or you do and just hate whites
Perfect .
its always been....its a brainwashing center....that is deeply rooted in racism
Vice, just reading you video description is extremely angering. You say his theories have been discredited. Where? Please post links to those studies showing that his conclusions and his data were wrong.
It's non existent
Tread Knought so are southern whites living in trailer parks also inherently stupid and lazy?
@bandwidthzero Please watch alternative hypothesis channels videos and black pigeon speaks video. They debunked shaun's debunking of the bell curve.
@@Lottodds Nowhere in Murray's book can you find the words "stupid and lazy". "Conscientiousness" is one of the big 5 personality traits, and it varies among individuals/genders. However, intelligence has a strong predictive power over life outcomes. So while not all poor people are low IQ, having a low IQ will not make you upwardly mobile. So, to answer your question, it is likely that poor whites are generally on the lower end of the IQ spectrum as well.
@bandwidthzero Dr Gareipy (a neuroscientist doing post doctorate research) debunked 'shawn' showing that his film was at best incorrect and at worst lies. However, you carry on believing your far left 'YT expert'. th-cam.com/video/0Z5CHFUvn1U/w-d-xo.html
My god, I hate my generation.
this generation are full of morons. they were fucked, true, but guess what, so every generarion since Nero.
They're actually standing up to a Neo Nazi
@@micahjohnsonboxing6409 No, dummy. You are proving OP's point with your low IQ comment
they will be the one to make the world greater.....they wont stand for the old rhetoric and racist views
Keep your rifle by your side.
Discredited? Widely? Citation needed.
Tomasz Matuszczyk yes his work is generally regarded as pseudo-science.
Yes, the vast majority of the scientific community repudiates Charles Murray's claims about Race and IQ and his book The Bell Curve. Stephen Jay Gould, an esteemed evolutionary biologist, said Murray was wrong in assuming that intelligence could be accurately represented by tests, that people can be accurately rated by such tests, and that measured IQ is unchanged through life or through circumstances of culture, training or experience.
Everybody should also read Stephen Jay Gould's book "The Mismeasure of Man" which is a very good and comprehensive critique of Charles Murray's book The Bell Curve and on the bullshit idea of "biological determinism"
2lεgiϯܢ I could say the same thing about Charles Murray... most scientists repudiate him.
sources?
also, i recommend you listen to a Sam Harris podcast featuring Murray
How is it that people with PhDs in Political Science don't know the definition of fascism?
Because the left changes the definition when it suits them.
They do. You don't. Hope that helps.
@@matthewharris8819 if you're unable to understand his point, you're an idiot
Fascism was defined by Mussolini (the inventor) as government and businesses working together towards a common goal. By that definition I quite frankly don't know whether Mr. Murray is a fascist. However, he certainly fuels talking points of eugenicists
@@sicsempertyrannis3782 of course race is a social construct. There is nothing within humans that would fit the definition of race. I do believe in evolution. I even regularly debate against creationists. Humanity has extremely little genetic variation. And genes don't determine intelligence. The iq is completely dependent on social factors and maybe some brain structure (which is not directly determined by genes). I myself do have some issues with people with severe illnesses which can be inhereted procreating, but I don't want to solve them by killing or forced sterilization.
One must admire Murray's patience.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@lankanavodaya4918no?
Kang seems to be the most disinterested journalist I've ever seen.
so good* journalist, they ask questions, they're not supposed to have emotions toward the subject
Right? I wish he would interject more of his views so I don't have to form any of my own.
Maybe he drew the short straw for this story.
He's being impartial and listening to both sides. That's good journalism.
T Freezy HE IS KANGZ
"Fascist ideologies should not be given a platform." Ohhhhhhh, the irony... probably completely lost on them.
That’s not “fascism”. It might be an authoritarian tendency or a willingness to use coercion to suppress dissenting opinions, but it’s not “fascism”. People have no idea what “fascism” actually is, apparently! 😄
Honestly, props to that one guy who stood up and yelled that he wanted to hear the man speak. It's really hard to stand up to a group of your peers (especially when they're behaving like that) and I hope we wasn't excommunicated for it.
Those people weren't his peers. They were his inferiors. They'll be swinging in the wind soon if we're lucky.
It always surprises me why more student who are there to listen to the speaker don’t stand up and tell the protesters to leave. It’s your tuition, you PAID to be here to learn something, and these people are trying to rob you of that right.
"informational protest" LOL Just screaming and sensationalism.
I know, I also laughed when he said that.
I feel validated. Thank you DTAAGOP!
Thank you for agreeing, that it's not an informational protest, rather just "stopping" (your word) by screaming and sensationalism.
winers
No arguments, just 'racist'
"because that is what he is." Great argument... He's a Nazi, too, right?
@Donald Trump is Affirmative Action for the GOP
You're a neo-nazi.
No, you're not allowed to refute that. This isn't a site where neo-nazis are tolerated, so I'm not giving you the chance to spread your hatred.
Right now, as I speak, I am gathering a -mob- collection of activists that shall prevent you from speaking in public, as to prevent you from recruiting more neo-nazis to your racist cause.
Yeah, pretty stupid comment, right? So how about you stop saying the same shit?
@@taylorbrock4635 him and Hitler don't have much daylight, he just prefers starving them.
I listened to the full interview with Murray and Sam Harris and I think Murray's findings are completely valid.
And you can see it whit yours ayes in South Africa and Zimbabwe.
it's hilarious to see a phd candidate on comparative literature have the nerve to criticize Murray's "scholarship flaws"
even a college senior can pick out the flaws, Murray's argument is a shame
@@abdurrazzaq2314 then why don't you do so, specifically what flaws have you found in Murray's interpretation of the research, and what is the correct interpretation?
@@hadleyshope4041 I speak for him when I say: small sample populations, biased selection of studies that often are done on people who barely speak English, over-reliance on studies authored by eugenicists explicitly set out to prove eugenics, p-hacking, over-operationalization of variables into a mega variable called the "g-factor", and so on. Just because Charles Murray is an Authority figure doesn't mean he can't be criticized.
@@quarkonium3795 this isn't a legitimate criticism, all you've done is listed a series of flaws that can be present in research, without providing specific studies and the shortcomings in any of the hundreds of studies that are cited in Murray's work. Looking up flaws in research and typing them up in a generic response without specifics is nothing more than a non-response. Murray's work is highly credible based on decades of sound research.
@@hadleyshope4041 he used a porn mag as a source btw
1) The Bell Curve argued, primarily, that higher IQ people do better in life as measured on a variety of indicators, from income to likelihood of being in prison to health to likelihood of being in an injury-causing accident.
2) It did have one chapter, out of 11, that discussed racial differences in average IQ (which are not in doubt, those the causes of said differences are a subject of controversy)
3) TBC has not been 'discredited'.
4) Murray has produced excellent scholarship in the past two decades.
Seeing the clear bias in this video, I think I should check out this Murray guy to see what he really thinks... Thanks for introducing him to me, VICE!
Listen to his podcast conversation with Sam Harris, it's recent and a good place to start.
😂 love it!!
It’s bunk science. Sam Harris fans don’t understand science, they just repeat what he says
@@LaVerdad65 I watch both vice and shapiro from time to time and I'd say intellectual Ben Stiller is pretty much straight down the middle on most things. To me he seems very science/evidence oriented and he corrects himself when he is shown wrong.
@Jeff Whitman so once again noone is refuting this guys actual theories, just tossing insults. What did this guy say that was untrue?
These people actually support the evidence for his theory
They ARE the evidence for his theory....
Truth hurts
Yup.
What? How exactly is protesting and sabotaging his lecture evidence for his theory that different races have different average IQs?(which is a theory with weak assumptions, such as, that races exist in more than a socio-political way and that from that one can establish from specific tasks, their intelligence or the g factor)
@@headsworthtg3585 bro it’s well documented.... There is no lee way...AVERAGE does not mean all!! The issue is this research has been around for decades... The military uses the IQ test to figure out where to put you...
"I should rephrase that, they've never read this book"
AHAHAHHAHAH
Or any book to which they weren't neurotypically disposed.
That was mature. Go on stage, presume to tell the man about his scholarship, and then walk away before he has a chance to answer. Then insult him. Cool.
Ernst Jünger “scholarship”. I suppose that is semantic magic that means “funded by white nationalists” in actual English
You echoed my thoughts exactly. I say that the protestor showed that he was not honest, not on a search for truth, and uncaring about scholarship or learning. I would bet his grades are just passing. He probably gets through some courses by intimidating the professor. It's IMPOSSIBLE to care about truth if you shout, "You're wrong and I won't engage in debate with you. I'll just scream and knock over the chessboard."
@@jamesdoctor8079 Have you read his work? At all? The man is as racist as Obama or Thomas Sowell. I do question his engaging in the subject in the first place, but the level of intense scholarship that went into his work is undeniable. Those students don't seem willing to engage in higher intellect. I'm sure they'd call Mother Theresa, or JESUS racists if they said we should talk out, and intellectually flesh out ideas. Those students don't belong in universities. They don't seem to have the intellectual temperaments. They seem, dare I say, fascist.
@Donald Trump is a Ghetto trick I'm guessing you're one of those students from that University in that video.
@@The22on -- I agree with the original poster, but Nate, that is a LOT of assumptions you make about the student. Just as that PhD student made you upset because he hauled insults and accusations and then walked away, you're kind of doing the same thing by assuming a whole life story about that student. Did this student act unfairly? Absolutely. But you can't say anything else about him.
If Charles Murray is any kind of supremacist, he's an Asian supremacist, because the Asian curve is further to the right than the white curve.
That was great
Yep and if people actually read his book they would realize this.
God forbid college students be intellectually challenged!!
‘Debunked’ ? No. Misconstrued and misused Yes.
Discredited, and fundamentally racist.
Timothy Clarke They aren’t facts though...
Ypu debate whther or not thwy are facts in peer reviewed research, not in the TH-cam comments or by shouting at people on stage
@@michaelqdlap Funny you would bring up peer reviewed research, given that the bell curve was given no peer reviews before publishing and claiming to be fact.
I am not for deplatforming, but it doesn't mean the guy is right. He pushed a racist agenda that utilized old and discredited research from the early 20th century.
@@carrier2823 Yeah, he can have his platform at the Klan rally, but it really does cast a grim shadow on any pretense to integrity a university wants to portray to give a megaphone to this sort of backwards hate mongering. "Oh no, it's not hate," yeah, go get screwed by an elephant Mr. Murray. There's my rebuttal.
This video, and these students are the reason why The Bell Curve is going through shipping and is on its way to my house for me to read.
Same. I bought and read the entire book because of snowflakes like these, and found the book 100% objective and trustworthy.
Just letting you know a trusted source for the book is a man who thinks genital size, ejaculation distance, and intelligence are all correlated
Likewise. Every time I see authoritarian protesters violently trying to de-platform someone who does science based on objective evidence, I buy the book. Maybe two copies.
It basically says white people are superior
@@silentj624 no, it essentially puts east asians at a superior intellect. If you read it then you would know.
The irony is that the black students interviewed here are proving Murray's point about race and IQ.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash They are comforting a known racist? You have a low IQ my friend.
Charles Murray is a hero. What an eloquent, well-spoken, and informative theorist and speaker.
The Bell Curve is in no way, shape or form widely discredited. Just widely disliked lol.
Steven Jay Gould, an actual geneticist, ripped it to shreds.
Jude Stine 1. I don’t hate any group. 2. Just because I think something isn’t discredited doesn’t mean I think it’s valid/strongly supported. I just don’t think there’s enough research on the matter to make any definitive conclusions.
Sorry I’m open-minded. For a scientist, freedom of inquiry is essential and you can’t be swayed by the moral implications of what you might find.
I think it’s pretty ironic that to insult me, you insinuated that you yourself think black people have low IQs... are you projecting your feelings onto me?
Matthew Harris 1. Steven Jay Gould is an evolutionary biologist, not a geneticist. 2. I actually think his work is pretty interesting, but it takes a lot more than “a smart guy with a degree in the relevant field said something, therefore you should believe it” to convince me of something lol.
@@matthewharris8819 steven gould wrote a book restating factoids you can pick up skimming an intro to genetics textbook and people who worship the browns lauded it as the holy grail of owning racisms.
@@antichrist2558 Hey, there is the racism Murray was appealing to.
Murray: "I have observed that dolphins, on average, are faster swimmers than human beings."
Woke Protester: "Umm? Have you ever heard of a guy named Michael Phelps??"
Murray: "That's not my point. I didn't say humans couldn't swim fast..."
Woke Protester: (walks away, feeling victorious in his ignorance)
fucking exactly
hes wrong anyway
@Martin Pospisil the bell curve has been consistently debunked for having inconsistent unrealistic methodology and mis or over interpreting sources.
@Martin Pospisil progressivism is no where near dying and murray himself has never given a proper refute to these “alt left scientists” and all proper retakes of the bell curve debunk murrays conclusions but you have a nice day.
@Martin Pospisil yes because the right favors the rich because they suck. also how do you cite two experts without actually giving me a source. also you do realize that a majority of the latino population either wont vote or wont get a president pandering to them so unbelievably hard like trump did for a while right? this is an extremely loose correlation especially since progressivism has been rising among the young recently. not to mention trump fucking over latino voters lmao.
Actually his book has been proven true the more we learn, in the past 23 years we have more or less beyond any doubt proven that his studies are 100% correct, so I think it must be a joke how in the description you claim his book has been discredited when it has actually been supported by all current studies and research including DNA, Genetics, and the most recent scientific IQ studies/research.
"The 23 year old book, which famously argued that black people, on average, had lower IQs than whites, has been widely discredited, and Murray has long been considered irrelevant." Is it really true? Honest question. Murray is clearly not irrelevant in every sense. You just made a video about him. Seems like a odd description. If he's irrelevant, why did you make a video about him?
Steve Fei Hou the summary of his Bell Curve book is that IQ predicts social/family and career success. Some groups on average gave higher iq than other groups, but individuals across groups with similar iq has similar outcomes in terms of career, family stability, rates of incarceration, etc. So a xxx person with a 130 IQ will do about as well as a yyy person with a 130 IQ. Problem is that because the xxx group on average has a 1-2 standard deviation lower IQ on average, the number of people with an IQ of 130 in the yyy group is much higher than the xxx group.
I don't think you need to read his book. Just look at Europe and then look at Africa and tell me there isn't a difference there. Africa has had 10,000 plus years to build a modern society and yet has failed to do so. There must be a reason for that.
Steve Fei Hou I think you dont understand the point of the video
@@micahjohnsonboxing6409 He's not advocating using the government to stop people from having children, he's advocating not using the government to encourage people to have children. There's a subtle difference. He wants people having children to be decided by whether or not they can afford them, not on what the government's (implied) opinion is. And this is how it should be: why should a useless person (whether black, white, Asian or whatever) be having children? That's just creating more of a strain on society.
@@1969ryson this is literally the dumbest observation of all time.
A "comparative literature" degree? Good luck getting a good job with that.
marksuave25 phd “candidate”
@Edita Ševčíková how many of those jobs exist in America that pay that amount?
@Edita Ševčíková I don't doubt that they jave security. But I am asking how many jobs exist for this particular degree.
Right: Describe fascism.
Left: Anything that offends us.
Left: Describe woke.
Right: Anything we don't like.
Right: Describe gender.
Left: It’s a system of oppression.
Left: Describe Race.
Right: It's a hierarchy of supremacy.
Suppressing free speech and free expression is one of the core facets of fascism.
@@infinityblablabla Nobody on the right says that.
And "woke" = identity politics. Very simple.
Its okay, because everytime the activist react in this way they only give people like Murray more power. It generates more interest into what speakers of his ilk have to say. I've never heard of this guy before but now I want to read that chapter of that book that he wrote. "No Platform" protest such as these do not work in the era of the internet, they just become a marketing tool LOL
Omg, these students are so intolerant.
Actually the IQ studies have NOT been discredited at all. I know i was horrified at the racial difference claim when i was much more PC but if you apply reason and logic it makes sense that there would be differences - thought intraracial differences would be greater so individuals should be seen simply as individuals. But it does explain why different groups of people do better than others as a whole and blasts the myth of white privilege
Any sources to back this claim?
The smartest person in the world could be black, the dumbest could be asian or white. Why people are upset over the average I don't get as it says nothing about an individuals IQ.
Overall there are more dumber males than females as the female iq clusters around the middle, but there are more males at the top end of the scale.
Says nothing again about individuals, why the butt hurt...
They existe yes but no it doesn't make sense how could evolution have had such a big impact in so little time ? I don't believe because of that culture isn't a big part of the difference.
Individuals should be seen as individuals. Period.
C'est d'la bonne - "Big impact". How could it have such a "big impact" on skin color and a "big impact" on nose shape. You are arbitrarily defining what a "big impact" is. It seems like it should be extremely easy for evolution to make people stupider if it wants to.
I read the book back when it came out, and I was impressed. I even presented on it in a grad school class at the request of my prof. My key takeaway from the book was: a higher level of intelligence in whatever human body it finds itself in will, on average, tend to produce a more productive life for that body.
This is literally the adult version of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "nah nah nah nah"...modern ignorance.
Read the book first before you protest. He uses the most solid science in his books. Also higher IQ doesn't mean that you are a more valuable person anyways. I had a Mensa member IQ 160 friend back in highschool and she used her intelligence to make other feel bad. She had the ability to read music faster than professionals and one day she heard my mom playing the piano slightly wrong, asked that she would try, played better than my mother and publically humiliated her. IQ160 friend was an awful person character wise, but now she is a surgeon, and I suspect she is at least very skilled in her own field and patients need her. Not because she is an amazing human but just because she will perform surgeries well.
This is a good point... you can be a good person with low iq and a bad person with a high iq. However it's harder to be a productive contributing member of society with a low iq and you're not going to be inventing and uplifting humanity...
watching these protesters silencing people they disagree with has made me lose faith in our educational system, there is obviously something very wrong.
My grandfather who fought in WW2 told me some years ago that the fascists he fought were not done. The next time they show up they'd be smarter. Now I see them pretending to protest the very thing they are propogating.
Sorry for what your country has become.
Benjamin Wood Who was the fascists your grand father fought?
They don't seem that smart..
Everyone knows that you change people's mind by not trying to understand their point of view and instead silence them. Good work, team
"We're then going to head over the speech and see what he has to say." ...followed by a scene wherein students rally to no platform Charles Murray...I got nothin'.
"Discredited" lol. Ok VICE.
Watch this interviewer gets destroyed by Jordan Peterson in a VICE documentary.
At the end of it, he was giggling nervously like a 5 yr old girl by his own stupidity.
I recommend people to read his book first, then tell me how is he being a racist. There is greater variance of IQ among an ethnic group than there is between different ethnic groups. Guy isn't being racist.
I mean you can read a boatload of articles talking about it as well as his own literature and come to the same conclusion.
@@maggiepaul5911 Which of his books have you read?
For anyone who thinks Murray is a "fascist" or "racist", or simply doesn't know about his work, I'd strongly recommend listening to him on Sam Harris's podcast, which takes a very cautious and reserved approach to the subject of race and IQ th-cam.com/video/Y1lEPQYQk8s/w-d-xo.html
Yea, Charles Murray is not Richard Spencer.
+CountJimbo
There is nothing defensible about Islam.
+Martin Rheaume
He seems pretty well versed in alt-right (alt-lite, whatever) memes though. 0:26
I would respect their work more if they studied economic standing and IQ before they delve into race and IQ. I think it's fairly obvious that economic standing, what schools you go to, how stable your home is, etc, are REALLY what cause the difference in IQ. Not race.
You're right! I haven't read it, and cannot make that judgement. However, this is the internet though so you could just as easily not have read it and just be throwing this out there to make his work seem more legit. Economic standing is a lot to control for, there are a lot of aspects to it. I'm not sure he will have controlled for it right, but now I'm compelled to find out.
Ok, and people should listen to his podcast and get themselves to that conclusion instead of just taking your word for it.
IQ is the leading factor in determining how successful a human is going to be. If research shows that some groups of people have a lower IQ than others it´s extremely important to know WHY so that we can take measures to boost their IQ. Maybe they don´t breastfeed as much? Maybe they hit their children? Maybe its nutrition? Maybe it´s cultural? One thing is for sure, shutting down those who are trying to look into this is never going to solve anything
These students are fascists.
Thanks Vice for finally reporting on this worrying trend that has been rearing it's ugly head in universities.
kemalists rather
Polite old man gets attacked for doing a speech and he is the bad guy? You Americans have done a horrible job at teaching your children respect, manners and common decency.
What's sad is that after Murray and Hernstein wrote the Bell Curve the APA created a task force of some of the best psychometricians to investigate the claims about Race and IQ in the book. The task force agreed with 95% of it and the other 5% they just said we don't know enough yet; but these people wouldn't know that because they haven't read anything about the subject.
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.134.1282&rep=rep1&type=pdf
If you are truly confident in your values you will respond in a quiet and respectful manner to EVERYONE. I tend to be very left-leaning but I will always hear somebody out and engage with them in a rational and intellectual fashion. De-Platforming is completely wrong, illogical, and goes completely against the very idea of post-secondary education.
I doubt you're very left leaning. I literally would not hire a leftist in this world and I'm a fucking atheist.
Person 1: "Let's have an honest discussion. I will answer any of your questions."
Person 2: "La la la! I can't hear you, racist! La la la!"
Which person is more intellectual, more mature, and more likely to be correct?
If you don't know long story short Murray and another author Richard Hernstein published a book in 1994 called The Bell Curve. It was highly controversial because it basically said that intelligence is completely heritable, in other words, you are born with a certain IQ and that does not change. He uses the analogy of the normal distribution (or bell curve) in statistics. When you measure out IQ scores for a population on a normal distribution or bell curve, 100 is defined as the mean (or average) and there is a 15 point standard deviation. That basically means that about 68 percent of the population is going to score between 85-115 on an IQ test. 95 percent will fall between 70 and 130. Statistically speaking there will only be just two percent of everyone that will have a score of >130 and another 2% below 70. The premise was that if a kid had a certain level of intelligence that they were at a certain level and that is where they were always going to be. Their upbringing and environment did not matter. I was doing my undergrad in psychology at that point in time and I just remember learning about all the terrible claims they made in the book. The authors claim that someone cannot come from a troubled background who has parents with low intelligence and become intelligent themselves. It gets into critical race theory and such and even then it was highly controversial. It also leaves little room for arguing that someone with a low IQ has a different type of intelligence--it is basically smart people are successful and those who aren't smart are not.
Yeah this is not true. It says that intelligence is around 75% genetic and the environment has indeed an effect in the intelligence but it's overrated. If you test the difference in IQ between individuals when they're 3 years old and they're raised in the same enviroment, the differences in intelligence remain.
Murray didn't make any mistakes in his writing. They're protesting simple truths.
SHUT HIM DOWN BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY = 100% FASCISM
That's false, suppression of freedom of speech is not an important part of Fascism and it can be argued that it's not part of Fascism at all, there have been Fascists who supported freedom of speech, like Mosley. don't fall for linguistic tricks of commies, Fascism should not be used as a negative term to label someone with.
These kids were presumably born between 1997 and 2000. They are way too young to know how naive the are. Eventually, they'll stop talking and start listening. Hopefully, they'll also learn to trust their own judgement rather than follow the crowd.
Charles Murray is a conventional, conservative, middle-of-the-road scientist. Whether or not you agree with the data and his findings in The Bell Curve, to call him a fascist does a great injustice to the millions of people throughout the 20th Century who suffered and died under real fascist regimes. And to de-platform him at a university is the kind of authoritarian response that true fascists promote.
beep boop ''science is racist'' beep bop
Murray and all people should have a platform imo. Thats freedom
His theory makes perfect sense when you look around the world and notice which people build what type of civilizations, some being more successful than the others.
Many people pretend that certain areas of the world aren't still running around in loincloths and having more children than they can sustain or for which they can provide.
I hope all those “activists” have read his entire book before going out there and joining the bandwagon.
Don't join a bandwagon yourself. Have you read the book? There's plenty of articles that talk about it, as well as his own published literature, and the words that come out of his own mouth.
So tolerant.
So you interview the guy and only put 10 seconds of him speaking on the video, I wonder what he said in the interview that you are trying so hard to hide from people.
“No platforming” is the opposite of what universities are about. If you don’t agree with someone’s ideas let them speak so everyone can see how wrong they are. Provide people with a better idea. It’s brave for people like this to be willing to go universities… if nothing else.
These students seem to be objecting to the claim that blacks and whites have different average IQs. But among experts - *including* all those mainstream psychologists like James Flynn and Richard Nisbett, who argue that the origin of the deficit is 100% environmental - the ONLY controversy is whether genes contribute to the B/W IQ gap. There is no controversy about whether the gap exists.
Allowing open discussion of these topics would foster the development of a more sophisticated kind of IQ denialism, but these students don't even know the basics.
I feel so bad for this poor old man being bullied and vilified like that.
They really proved his point about race and intelligence.
I am Mexican and I would like for this young people to let him speak and have a conversation. But when you just talk and walk away... that is not conducive of a good communication skill.
You make a good point and I agree with you, but why did you preface your comment by stating that you're a Mexican?
@@robinwestermann6348 Just because of the stupidity going on right now. That if you are white you cannot speak because you are racists, which is a bunch of bs. And if you are a minority you are oppressed which is more bs! It was just to make a point.
You need to arrage your meetings early in the morning, as Jordan Peterson does: woke people don't usually get up early.
We’re circling the drain now... I get the feeling if that young big student would have punched Murray there would have been applause
If he'd have shot him there'd have been applause
Colleges are supposed to be places where ideas are debated. Bad ideas, good ideas, racist ideas, fascist ideas, communist ideas, religious ideas...
I've decided that whenever I hear about a public intellectual being prevented from speaking at a college I'll read their most popular book, since they probably have something interesting to say.
Where have his claims in the Bell Curve been debunked? The description of this video just claims that but doesn't cite any sources. I have yet to see any scientific rebuttals of that one claim about IQ and race. Also, only a small part of his book was about race. So, can anyone post links that refute his claims about IQ and race. I just want to see all the evidence.
These activist have no argument that can hold water on his scholarship or his technical argument. They merely don’t like his message even though the vast majority of them could not give an articulate explanation of what his message is since most of them have never read any of his work.
Children will behave like children, if allowed.
Did any of the protesters actually read the book? And the controversy is one specific chapter out of the whole book. You can look up statistics on-line.
Charles Murray is such a great and brave man.
If all races are physically equal, then why do only blacks win gold in Olympic 100m sprint?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres_at_the_Olympics
Try to find a non-black who won gold,silver, or bronze in 100m race in the past 50 years.
I recommand watching charles murray on sam harris podcast its great.
They are just proving his study right …
These protestors are sad. When Mr. Murray tries to engage them and have an actual conversation, they walk off.
The unwillingness to listen will only lead to people being thrown against the wall, so to speak.
Nah.
It did make me chuckle that a PhD student yelled in Murray's face with a semi-argument and didnt stick around for the rebuttal. The kicker is that he was yelling about Murray supposedly saying he wouldn't be a good PhD. Yes sir, you will probably not be a very good PhD student, not because you're black but because your behavior is not scholarly.
Come now, imagine that thing actually reading Nietzsche, Kant, Hegel, Mann, Goethe, Sartre, and really understanding it. It bothers me to witness inferiority so emboldened.
These college students are utterly brainwashed. Charles is a decent and respectable man. Courageous and driven in his work. Something these students know nothing about. His work is also factually accurate, too. It’s a shame that Vice never bothered to reference any of it.
People on both end of spectrum don't realize morality and science doesn't have to go together. Science is science. Morality is different thing.
In a free Society all manner of thoughts should be allowed to flourish as when they appear,
The black student seems offended by Mr Murray.
His book is available worldwide somehow and somewhat.
well, disprof it, if he's wtong it shouldn't be that hard
I wonder how much big girl accusing the man of fascism will eventually cost the taxpayers in heath care services, especially after pursuing a useless degree.
This was a great interview. To hear the man speak his views in his own words.....Oh right, That's not what this was.
Bad ideas shut themselves down. We don't need to give up the 1st amendment to stop bad ideas. I'm a student and consider myself pretty damn far to the left on the political spectrum, but I would defend the right of anyone to speak, even a Nazi. We enter dangerous territory as a society if we start deciding who can speak and who cannot. I will say though, if the speaker is inciting violence or physically threatening harm on other people, then yes they should be shut down. Free speech should have limits, this is not it however.
The behavior of these minorities disrupting and causing a scene confirms his book was, and still is, 100% accurate. Bless you Charles. May truth prevail in a society that is anti science. #science
We can’t refute what you have to say so we’ll just call you names and bar you from speaking. Well done
Will buy every single Murray book. Just busy now to read it have something else. So glad we have people like him.
I am a liberal and I will attest to the fact that Charles Murray is one of the most misunderstood people when it comes to divisive political issues.
LOVE Charles Murray! Such a smart, articulate guy. and very enlightening books.
The wonderful irony of someone saying "Fascist ideologies should not be given a platform."
Maximillian (and his eyebrow piercing) are good examples of Murrays Bell Curve
3:44 "Ladies and gentleman, I stand before you today as a student!"
How gay have colleges become to let people like that in?
I appreciate activism, but maybe these kids should graduate first, get a job in the real world and then come to their conclusions about the world they live in.
Seems like a lot of them are just entitled brats wasting their parents money on an education that they aren't completely getting.
College has definitely changed since I was there.