Nice to see the Delta CV880’s. Elvis bought one of the Delta Convairs and customised it in 1975. The Lisa Marie plane is still on display at Graceland.
The F27 at Lansing Community College was a ramp queen at LAN used for teaching aviation maintenance. They ran the engines and taxied it around sometimes. I got to ride along once.
Glad you enjoyed it. I think you can actually get a tour of the place as they started giving these tours again having stopped for about 20 years. You could give them a call and they could tell you more about it, but about five years ago myself, and some friends stopped by and we did have a tour which was quite nice and it was free.
@@JetFlix Good Day. I have moved from Arizona but will return for visits with family. I previously was a member at the Pima Air & Space Museum. One of the most wonderful palces. Also the Titan Missile Museum. I will look into a tour of Marana during a visit. Thank You for the reply and the post. Best Regards
I began working for pan am in 1987 when I first became a flight attendant I worked for the airline till they closed in December 1991 it was such a great airline to work for
You’re lucky to have worked for such an iconic airline. Back in the 1950s and 1960s Pan Am is the leading global brand .. kind of like the Google or Amazon or Tesla of the day.
Such rare and fantastic content again. I had never seen the PA 707-321s in storage all in one place. Given that this is right after the first oil shock, it all makes sense. Note that most of the 707s you showed from PA are not "water wagons," as those no longer existed in the PA context. The 707-321s are JT4A turbojet powered and do not have water injection, since those larger motors (based on the military J75) didn't need it. You do show early 707-121Bs like N707PA. Those, however, had already been converted to turbofan power as these images show, thus they no longer had the early turbojet engines that used water injection to boost takeoff thrust.
Thank you Ryan I was not aware those engines were not water injected. I thought all the engines with daisy petal sound surpressors were water injected by definition.
Interesting comments Ryan. The saying is water and oil don’t mix. I’ve never heard of water injection although I’ve flown on many 707s, mostly with PAA and TWA. My uncle also designed GE engines in Cincinnati. Too bad he’s no longer around to query on this.
@@JetFlix yes. I flew on AV to Colombia a couple of times and I know some of the 707s and 727s they had were former PA aircraft. A lot of history was made by those early PA's 707s but as it goes with machines, their useful lives end and they get scrapped. Thanx for showing us these slides.
These photos were taken in September 1973. This is slightly ahead of the Yum Kippur war, which happened a few weeks later in October 1973. The fuel crisis really didn't kick off until late 1973 early 1974. There already had been a recession in the airline industry since around 1971 and I would say that these aircraft went into storage before the fuel crisis really hit.
The Boeing 707s and Convair 880s were not just fuel thirsty, they were also very noisy. Noise abatement laws forced airlines to install 'hush-kits' to their turbojet airliner fleets, causing some older models to be retired rather than modified or sold off to operators in countries that didn't have such laws.
Mike Potter at Mojave wound up with a lot of 880s as well as the type certificate. He also had the Elves aircraft. My supervisor was on the crew that took the aircraft to Tennessee.
Yes, I met Mike Potter at Mojave in the late 80s when I went there to report on a Clint Eastwood film that was in production there with a Convair 880 that they restored to taxi condition. I actually did meet Clint Eastwood as well. This would’ve been around 1988.
@@JetFlix My supervisor Ed Royal knew Mike as he was ex TWA. I meet Mike as he needed a wire harness to power a L1011 instrument panel for the langoliers movie. He sent me with a worker to get some connectors. The fellow was in awe of my knowledge. He said you must know everything about these. The section below the cockpit with the electronics racks ripped out was there. I told him the only time I have seen this area was with a mirror in one hand at arms length and a flashlight in the other hand. By the way in the movie you only see the panel for the blink of an eye.
It’s amazing to hear that your first aircraft type as a flight attendant was the Boeing 707 .. one of my favorite Airliners. I wish I got to fly on more of them. What airline did you work for with the 707s?
Correction on the Mohawk Airlines FH227s. They were stored after Mohawk merged with Allegheny Airlines in 1972. You can see the Allegheny Airlines name on a few of them. Allegheny Airlines. In 1979, Allegheny changed its name to US Air.
@@teenagerinsac Right the CJ805. There were a couple guys that had worked F4's in the marines that could point out the differences. I do not think there were many. AA had the 990 those engines had an aft mounted fan. That was why the cowling was different.
Yes it was primarily the GT three engines that were used from all the 707 passenger aircraft that were purchased by the US Air Force in the late 70s early 1980s that were engine sources for KC-135s. This is true.
Water wagon is the old terminology for the pure jet water injected jet engines of the 1950s. They had to load lots of h2o in tanks to give the engines extra combustion thrust for takeoff and these engines belched black trails of smoke on landing and takeoff. It waz how jet engines were back then. And these early jets were called water wagons for this reason.
Water wagon was specifically used to refer to the Pratt&Whitney JT3C-6 engine on the early 707s and DC-8s that, as others have said, used water injection to increase air density in to the engine intake, resulting in greater fuel burn and greater thrust. Many engines used water injection in the past, including later and more sophisticated engines such as the early JT9D motors on the 747. But these ones got the nickname water wagon because of the excessive noise and smoke during water injection takeoffs, which made the water feature particularly noteworthy.
N707PA was scrapped in the late 1980s @ KMIA. A couple of us got up inside and tried to remove the Capt's yoke the nite before it was chopped. Didn't have the correct tools at hand.
@@JetFlix We think alike. One at the fwd. entry door was gone. One at the lwr. rear unreachable from the gnd. Went up thru lwr. 41 and E&E to get in the cockpit. Had to be very "discrete" about our late-nite souvenier quest.
@@Shamrock100 That timeline fits perfectly. I recall they were towing it around with only 2 main tires mounted diagonally on each bogie truck prior to her demise. Sad, forlorn ending for a once-great survivor. It was parked up in Miami's old corrosion corner when last intact. There was an active chop-and-smelt operation going on at the time to clear out the accumulation of old scrappers piling up around the airport.
Thank you for the aircraft-‘slideshow’. It is interesting the number of ‘hull-loses’ of the turboprops compared the hull-loses of the 4-engined-jets, that you have shown slides of. I wonder if it is due to less pilot-flight-hours required for turboprop-operations.
Pretty sure I flew on one of those Delta Convair 880s. It was from Cincinnati to SLC in 1971 or 72 while I was on summer vacation from college. But that is even more memorable because of the connecting flight before it….a Piedmont YS11 that originated on a Sunday morning in Roanoke. There were two stewardesses that welcomed me aboard by announcing my name over the intercom. Yep! I was the only passenger! At least until we picked up a few more in West Virginia. The stewardesses gave me free drinks and were very friendly. I even ended up with a name and phone number! They apparently had a layover for a couple hours in Cincinnati because then came my biggest surprise! Upon walking up the staircase on my connecting Delta 880, there were the two Piedmont stewardesses greeting me! What a shock! I ended up writing to one of them but I never met up with her again.
Interesting. When I deployed to Danang Viet in August 1969, we flew on a World Airways 707. When I met my wife in Hawaii in May 1970, I flew on a Pan Am 707. I wonder if either of those planes are on here.
Could very well be hide say. You got to find some great Aircraft back then narrow bodies we’re pretty much what everybody flu as the 747 was only just coming into service in 1970.
Howard Hughes had money problems acquiring jets for TWA in his attempt to remain competitive. Little wonder the Hughes Tool Co. 880's were leased out to competitors. He attempted to prevent delivery of some of these aircraft by removing them from the Convair plant and placing guards around them to prevent any further work at Convair. He was forced out at TWA shortly thereafter.
It’s all reminds me of the film, The Aviator, which I need to watch again as it involves Pan Am and TWA and Howard Hughes. It’s a great watch if you haven’t seen it already.
@@JetFlix None of the jet acqusition fiasco at Convair was presented in that film. Hughes tried to buy jets for TWA far too late. Boeing and Douglas had all the orders they could handle for at least a few years from TWA competitors. Hughes would simply have to get in line behind them. That's why he ended up atempting to buy Convair 880's with very little money.
Just wondering I went on a Donaldson airlines pure jet 707 from Toronto in the early 70,s it was a ex PanAm 707 don't recall the fin number I wonder if one was there hard to find shots of Donaldson airlines
I attended an airshow at Gainesville Regional Airport in April of 1989 and saw an F-27 or FH-227 that the Gators were using. So N7819M could have been a replacement aircraft, or the date is off.
I remember the NorthEast airlines jets at Logan Airport in Boston Massachusetts I also remember the Delta Airlines jets too they were a smoker they were traded in for the Boeing 727 jets
I've been an airplane fan my whole life bro and you got some great videos!
Thank you I am glad you like them.
Great pictures! During the gas crisis I drove around with a fuel siphon hose. I worked at marana air park from 1988 to 2001.
I live 50 miles from this place. Amazing. 😊
You are very lucky have an aviation fan. I’d be out there all the time seeing what’s new.
Nice to see the Delta CV880’s. Elvis bought one of the Delta Convairs and customised it in 1975. The Lisa Marie plane is still on display at Graceland.
I’d like to visit that 880 one day it’s on my to do list.
The F27 at Lansing Community College was a ramp queen at LAN used for teaching aviation maintenance. They ran the engines and taxied it around sometimes. I got to ride along once.
Sounds like fun!
I shot pics of N7806M up in Lansing back in 1994 and it was an FH-227B (LCD) not an F27..
Wonderful place, filled with wonderful aircraft. I've driven by it on the highway many times. Thank You
Glad you enjoyed it. I think you can actually get a tour of the place as they started giving these tours again having stopped for about 20 years. You could give them a call and they could tell you more about it, but about five years ago myself, and some friends stopped by and we did have a tour which was quite nice and it was free.
@@JetFlix Good Day. I have moved from Arizona but will return for visits with family. I previously was a member at the Pima Air & Space Museum. One of the most wonderful palces. Also the Titan Missile Museum. I will look into a tour of Marana during a visit. Thank You for the reply and the post. Best Regards
I began working for pan am in 1987 when I first became a flight attendant I worked for the airline till they closed in December 1991 it was such a great airline to work for
You’re lucky to have worked for such an iconic airline. Back in the 1950s and 1960s Pan Am is the leading global brand .. kind of like the Google or Amazon or Tesla of the day.
great old airliners and history
Such rare and fantastic content again. I had never seen the PA 707-321s in storage all in one place. Given that this is right after the first oil shock, it all makes sense. Note that most of the 707s you showed from PA are not "water wagons," as those no longer existed in the PA context. The 707-321s are JT4A turbojet powered and do not have water injection, since those larger motors (based on the military J75) didn't need it. You do show early 707-121Bs like N707PA. Those, however, had already been converted to turbofan power as these images show, thus they no longer had the early turbojet engines that used water injection to boost takeoff thrust.
Thank you Ryan I was not aware those engines were not water injected. I thought all the engines with daisy petal sound surpressors were water injected by definition.
Interesting comments Ryan. The saying is water and oil don’t mix. I’ve never heard of water injection although I’ve flown on many 707s, mostly with PAA and TWA. My uncle also designed GE engines in Cincinnati. Too bad he’s no longer around to query on this.
I had wondered what had become of PA 707s. An amazing sight, specially N701PA, the first ever delivered 707.
I would say half of the fleet were were scrapped, and half of the fleet went on to fly for other airlines in the 1970s.
@@JetFlix yes. I flew on AV to Colombia a couple of times and I know some of the 707s and 727s they had were former PA aircraft. A lot of history was made by those early PA's 707s but as it goes with machines, their useful lives end and they get scrapped. Thanx for showing us these slides.
These photos were taken in September 1973. This is slightly ahead of the Yum Kippur war, which happened a few weeks later in October 1973. The fuel crisis really didn't kick off until late 1973 early 1974. There already had been a recession in the airline industry since around 1971 and I would say that these aircraft went into storage before the fuel crisis really hit.
Sounds right .. thank you for the clarification on this. These were already old, thirsty and retired jets before the fuel crisis hit in full force.
The Boeing 707s and Convair 880s were not just fuel thirsty, they were also very noisy. Noise abatement laws forced airlines to install 'hush-kits' to their turbojet airliner fleets, causing some older models to be retired rather than modified or sold off to operators in countries that didn't have such laws.
As well as SMOKY AS H--- :)
You could see the smoke trail as it hung in the sky after the jet was gone a few minutes especially in a calm wind day :)
Mike Potter at Mojave wound up with a lot of 880s as well as the type certificate. He also had the Elves aircraft. My supervisor was on the crew that took the aircraft to Tennessee.
Yes, I met Mike Potter at Mojave in the late 80s when I went there to report on a Clint Eastwood film that was in production there with a Convair 880 that they restored to taxi condition. I actually did meet Clint Eastwood as well. This would’ve been around 1988.
@@JetFlix My supervisor Ed Royal knew Mike as he was ex TWA. I meet Mike as he needed a wire harness to power a L1011 instrument panel for the langoliers movie. He sent me with a worker to get some connectors. The fellow was in awe of my knowledge. He said you must know everything about these. The section below the cockpit with the electronics racks ripped out was there. I told him the only time I have seen this area was with a mirror in one hand at arms length and a flashlight in the other hand. By the way in the movie you only see the panel for the blink of an eye.
In searching Google maps, HC-BXC is still sitting in one piece in Ecuador. Love the old photos. Thanks for the videos.
My pleasure👍👍✈️✈️
Amazing video, thank you for posting!!!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@JetFlix 😃
I'm an airplane nut. I was a flight attendant for 15 years and the 707 was my first cabin to work in--happy days, or is that daze 😅
It’s amazing to hear that your first aircraft type as a flight attendant was the Boeing 707 .. one of my favorite Airliners. I wish I got to fly on more of them. What airline did you work for with the 707s?
Correction on the Mohawk Airlines FH227s. They were stored after Mohawk merged with Allegheny Airlines in 1972. You can see the Allegheny Airlines name on a few of them. Allegheny Airlines. In 1979, Allegheny changed its name to US Air.
Thank you for this correction and historical clarification .. I appreciate it.
those 880's sounded identical to Phantoms when taxiing, and smoked like Keith Richards.
I think Keith Richards was smokier than the 880s!
Yes, one Convair 880 sounded like 2 F4s in action
880 had civil version of J 79 as its engines thats why 😊
@@teenagerinsac Right the CJ805. There were a couple guys that had worked F4's in the marines that could point out the differences. I do not think there were many. AA had the 990 those engines had an aft mounted fan. That was why the cowling was different.
Those ex 707 airline planes (most of them) were used (some converted fully) as spare parts for USAF 707 refuelling tanker programmes.
Yes it was primarily the GT three engines that were used from all the 707 passenger aircraft that were purchased by the US Air Force in the late 70s early 1980s that were engine sources for KC-135s. This is true.
@@JetFlix I thought it was Pratt /Whitney engines that powered 707/727/737 and GE was used on DC 8 /DC9 originally in the 50/60/70s era.
Truly enjoyed it .
Long exhaust s on a lot of the smaller planes or saxophone shaped ones so at night no flames or sparks couldnt be seen at night while on ops
Hi what a great video, may I ask what you mean by the term Water Wagon cheers from Leicester right next to East Midlands airport.
Water injected engines to increase performance on takeoff .
Water wagon is the old terminology for the pure jet water injected jet engines of the 1950s. They had to load lots of h2o in tanks to give the engines extra combustion thrust for takeoff and these engines belched black trails of smoke on landing and takeoff. It waz how jet engines were back then. And these early jets were called water wagons for this reason.
@@JetFlix Thanks for the insight I've learnt something.
Water wagon was specifically used to refer to the Pratt&Whitney JT3C-6 engine on the early 707s and DC-8s that, as others have said, used water injection to increase air density in to the engine intake, resulting in greater fuel burn and greater thrust. Many engines used water injection in the past, including later and more sophisticated engines such as the early JT9D motors on the 747. But these ones got the nickname water wagon because of the excessive noise and smoke during water injection takeoffs, which made the water feature particularly noteworthy.
On humid weather days the moisture from the atmosphere also helped in that regard- COUGH COUGH SMOKY😊
N707PA was scrapped in the late 1980s @ KMIA. A couple of us got up inside and tried to remove the Capt's yoke the nite before it was chopped. Didn't have the correct tools at hand.
Darn .. did you get the manufacture serial
Plate?
@@JetFlix We think alike. One at the fwd. entry door was gone. One at the lwr. rear unreachable from the gnd. Went up thru lwr. 41 and E&E to get in the cockpit. Had to be very "discrete" about our late-nite souvenier quest.
I saw it at MIA in October 1987 and I believe it was scrapped in May 1988.
@@Shamrock100 That timeline fits perfectly. I recall they were towing it around with only 2 main tires mounted diagonally on each bogie truck prior to her demise. Sad, forlorn ending for a once-great survivor. It was parked up in Miami's old corrosion corner when last intact. There was an active chop-and-smelt operation going on at the time to clear out the accumulation of old scrappers piling up around the airport.
Thank you for the aircraft-‘slideshow’. It is interesting the number of ‘hull-loses’ of the turboprops compared the hull-loses of the 4-engined-jets, that you have shown slides of. I wonder if it is due to less pilot-flight-hours required for turboprop-operations.
Good observation, I actually don’t know it could very well be this case.
Pretty sure I flew on one of those Delta Convair 880s. It was from Cincinnati to SLC in 1971 or 72 while I was on summer vacation from college. But that is even more memorable because of the connecting flight before it….a Piedmont YS11 that originated on a Sunday morning in Roanoke. There were two stewardesses that welcomed me aboard by announcing my name over the intercom. Yep! I was the only passenger! At least until we picked up a few more in West Virginia. The stewardesses gave me free drinks and were very friendly. I even ended up with a name and phone number! They apparently had a layover for a couple hours in Cincinnati because then came my biggest surprise! Upon walking up the staircase on my connecting Delta 880, there were the two Piedmont stewardesses greeting me! What a shock! I ended up writing to one of them but I never met up with her again.
Great life memories these old images evoke and thank you so much for reliving them here for us to enjoy too.
Interesting. When I deployed to Danang Viet in August 1969, we flew on a World Airways 707. When I met my wife in Hawaii in May 1970, I flew on a Pan Am 707. I wonder if either of those planes are on here.
Could very well be hide say. You got to find some great Aircraft back then narrow bodies we’re pretty much what everybody flu as the 747 was only just coming into service in 1970.
STILL WAITING.....for fuel prices to stabilize 😢
Right about that!
The -321s shown were not water wagons. Only the 100 series with the JT-3 engines had water injection.
Thank you for clarifying… I refer incorrectly to all pure jet 707s and DC-8s as water wagons.. by habit
Okay....we get it, they're at Mirana.
You are confusing the straight jet and fan jet 707s
Howard Hughes had money problems acquiring jets for TWA in his attempt to remain competitive. Little wonder the Hughes Tool Co. 880's were leased out to competitors. He attempted to prevent delivery of some of these aircraft by removing them from the Convair plant and placing guards around them to prevent any further work at Convair. He was forced out at TWA shortly thereafter.
It’s all reminds me of the film, The Aviator, which I need to watch again as it involves Pan Am and TWA and Howard Hughes. It’s a great watch if you haven’t seen it already.
@@JetFlix None of the jet acqusition fiasco at Convair was presented in that film. Hughes tried to buy jets for TWA far too late. Boeing and Douglas had all the orders they could handle for at least a few years from TWA competitors. Hughes would simply have to get in line behind them. That's why he ended up atempting to buy Convair 880's with very little money.
Just wondering I went on a Donaldson airlines pure jet 707 from Toronto in the early 70,s it was a ex PanAm 707 don't recall the fin number I wonder if one was there hard to find shots of Donaldson airlines
I guess it is possible
@@JetFlix Donslasdon had two I seem to recall, G-BAEL and G-AYXR. Both were ex Pan Am 321s.
The wide bodies were coming online big at that time....
I attended an airshow at Gainesville Regional Airport in April of 1989 and saw an F-27 or FH-227 that the Gators were using. So N7819M could have been a replacement aircraft, or the date is off.
I think it was indeed one of these former Mohawk machines shown stored here in my video .. 15 years later.
You referred to Cuenca, Ecuador, right? (Kuenka) 16:59. Nice video 👍
I am not sure
I remember the NorthEast airlines jets at Logan Airport in Boston Massachusetts I also remember the Delta Airlines jets too they were a smoker they were traded in for the Boeing 727 jets
Great memories👍👍✈️✈️😄😄
Mohawk merged with Allegheny... which then became USAir.
I am going to big wain😊😊❤
Have an awesome trip and good luck!
Ok. We’re all up to date on the Mohawk 227 fleet. Let’s see some more 707s
mer-AH-nuh
Marana pronounced as maraNa in Sanskrit means death. Coincidentally and appropriately named boneyard 😮.
I had no idea.
The young Kipper war had a lot to do with everything in aviation like you state .
Indeed .. The Arab states started their oil embargo as a result. Old history.
Yom Kippur
oi olla hallo sky aviators