If you liked this video then you should watch the terrifying pilot mistakes that killed Lynyrd Skynyrd: 👉 th-cam.com/video/chMcJoUNQX0/w-d-xo.html Check out my new website to be the first to learn about FREE stuff that I'll have available soon! 👉 www.pilotdebrief.com
Glad to see that TH-cam woke up and allowed your channel back on their site. Your debriefs are excellent and I think all pilots and especially students should watch your channel. Keep up the good work
I didn't realise that the channel was ever restricted. What happened? It doesn't seem like the type of content that normally falls foul of TH-cams policies.
Hoover was a sole proprietorship, created an LLC according to TH-cam guidelines, and they turned down the application which meant he could not post any videos because he was an unapproved LLC
I have been impressed with your reports for a long time. I am an Army Vet and private pilot. Finding out you were a jet fighter pilot and more didn't surprise me as your info is clear, concise, and relevant. Thanks for what you do sir!
I'm an army vet also. One night we were out in the field, and my friends were like, Stacy! We have a chance to fly in a c-130! Come with us! I said no thank you but they kept bugging me. Well, weren't they sorry when I ended up puking my guts out the whole time!😂
I'm retired AA Airbus captain and I started flying at 15 yrs , now 18,000 hrs flying. During my instrument training I had occasion to train on BOTH attiude indicators and after nearly rolling the plane using that old POS AI I refused to fly any of the trainers not updated. If I recall the old AI also indicated the turn was opposite what it was (turn left and the needle shows right) I can relate totally to the pilot. Also the briefer was negligent in not briefing the snow squalls .. I grew up in the midwest and at times during night you couldn't see any lights because the ranches were 80 miles apart = darkness up and darkness down ...... nice post.
@@AmeriFanPickerit was probably non standardization in the early days. In fact, Russian planes have the bank angle indicator turn opposite from Western planes.
The saddest part of this story is that Roger Peterson’s name is not on the memorial. He was a young man with big dreams and aspirations like the others.
@@keithmcwilliams7424I think I’d have to disagree because of the fact that Mr Dwyer allowed him to still fly the aircraft knowing that Roger had failed his instrument checkride and wasn’t authorized to fly the plane in that weather
Actually, that's not true. I saw pictures of a memorial at the crash site, with the Pilot's name on it. But I had to research how long it had been there. On Wikipedia it states that " In February 2009, a further memorial made from Stainless Steel by Ken Paquette for Roger Peterson was unveiled at the crash site"
Great Debrief, as usual! I asked a kid the other day if he knew what day was 'The Day The Music Died'. He said "Yes, it was 10 May 1960". I said: "Nope, it was February 3, 1959, the day Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and JP "The Big Bopper" died in a tragic plane crash." The kid said: "Oh I thought it was 10 May 1960 , the day Bono was born."
I'm an instrument rated private pilot and my instrument training was all done with the standard type of attitude indicator. I cannot imagine jumping into an airplane with the Sperry F3 gyro-indicator UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS where disorientation was very likely. Mr. Peterson must have been instantly disoriented as soon as he got above the runway lighting and into the snow. Very tragic.
It was a 1947 aircraft. Very similiar to the '54 that I owned. During training one of my instructors had a saying - "I'd rather be a day late than 30 years early." Another one - "I'd rather be down there wishing I were up here than up her wishing I were down there." I've always landed and sometimes spent the night at a motel if I didn't like the weather. I'm still here. If they pushed that departure until the morning it would have been fine. They'd still be there. They didn't have to leave then.
They could have stayed at Carol Anderson's place or shared a motel, getting a full night of sleep, eat a hearty breakfast and still have time to do laundry upon arriving at Moorhead. Sadly ironic, the weather conditions generally improved after that day for the remainder of the tour.
That’s quite an eye opener. I didn’t realize, until you posted the pic of the Bonanza’s Attitude Indicator, how the young pilot could have become disoriented.
Russian attitude indicators of that era had "up" as dirt brown, and the "ground" was colored sky-blue. They painted the cockpit teal blue to make the pilot feel relaxed. Maybe if the most important instrument were not colored backward, they would not be so tense?😮
@@PEPcessna- Simplicity and utility. The Sperry Attitude Gyro (if you do a Google search for that exact term you’ll find a few cool things on the internet about it) - I was actually fortunate enough to find one of these on eBay for not all that much. It’s one of my cool aviation toys on my “I love me” bookcase (I’m not even a fighter pilot and I have one!). Anyhow, back to the point: A conventional attitude gyro doesn’t indicate directly - if you think of the gyro as a sphere rotating about its vertical axis, and with a equatorial line on it which is parallel to and which would represent the earth’s horizon, the motion you are looking at is actually with respect to the side of the gyro OPPOSITE you. The gimbaled gyro actually remains stationary in space while the aircraft (and the gyro’s case, which is literally screwed to the aircraft) moves AROUND the gyro. So to see what is happening with respect to the horizon, you need to observe the far side of the gyro. This is accomplished on a conventional attitude gyro with a complicated linkage which transmits this relative motion from the side of the gyro away from the pilot to a pictorial horizon card which the pilot sees. So, when the aircraft pitches nose down, the nose of the aircraft moves down with respect to the horizon line on the front of the gyro. HOWEVER, the aircraft symbol is on the side of the instrument toward the pilot (I’ll reference front or back of the aircraft or gyro henceforth for simplicity’s sake), since that of course is the part the pilot can see. Now, if I were to look directly at the back of the gyro (the side facing the back of the the aircraft), so the aircraft symbol attached to the instrument case facing the pilot would appear to move ABOVE the horizon line. Hence the need for a linkage, which transmits the relative motion of the horizon line on the front of the gyro (the side away from the pilot) as lower with respect to the aircraft symbol on the back of the instrument case as it rotates around the gyro. Kw with all that said, the Sperry Attitude Gyro was the above WITHOUT the linkage - you were looking directly at the back of the ball which was the attitude gyro. This gave several advantages. The first I already hinted at: Simplicity due not having to have the mechanical linkage. This in turn provided a secondary benefit: The gyro was usable through 360 degrees of pitch and roll. You were literally looking at the back of the gyro, no linkage to limit the range of motion of the gyro before tumbling - it wouldn’t tumble! Definitely some advantage there, though from a real world standpoint I think it’s debatable how much of an advantage that really is. The huge obvious disadvantage is of course the completely counterintuitive pitch display (roll presentation was conventional, since the movement of the case (aircraft) relative to the sides of the gyro is in fact the motion of the aircraft relative to the horizon around the roll axis). I say completely counterintuitive with respect to what I (and obviously you as well) were trained on or have some passing familiarity with. That said, there have been studies with completely non-conventional displays, and they can be learned and flown, but they aren’t necessarily optimal. And that to me sums up the Sperry Attitude Gyro in a nutshell: A novel and somewhat innovative instrument that offered some significant advantages. Unfortunately, the risk factor of a pitch display that was very counterintuitive far exceeded the benefit of a non-tumbling gyro display.
@@EllipsisAircraft Yer I dont understand why they would have the attitude indicator as that orientation it dosn't add up to me why you would design something like that
I am French and not bilingual but your phrasing and pronunciation are so good that I (think I) understand every single word without any problem and it makes your videos even more unique! Thank you so much!
Yes, his _enunciation_ (the act of pronouncing words clearly or the fact of expressing and explaining a plan or principle clearly) skills are excellent.
@@sarahalbers5555 This. Even if Peterson had recognized the False Horizon, the V35 still would have lost throttle and stalled as soon as it reached altitude, due to it not being deiced.
There is a small monument plaque for Roger Peterson at the crash site. It’s in the shape of a pair of wings. I believe the plane was actually a 1947 model. Another item I forgot to mention if it already hasn’t been is that both Roger Peterson and the Maguire flying service was not licensed to fly under instrument conditions. To note, because of this accident, this is what changed the regulation that commercial pilots cannot fly for hire, on cross country more than 50 nautical miles unless they have an instrument rating.
I have read a report from the county coroner at the time relating to Mr Peterson. If my memory is not mistaken, I remember reading that Mr Peterson had some problem with his inner ear that contributed to the problems he encountered with his practical check-ride a few months before the fatal crash. The aircraft shows 1947 as year of manufacture, on the American registry.
@@dreednlb I know, my bad. I posted that remark prior to watching the entire video. I had a step away for a few moments. That’s why I mentioned if it hadn’t already been mentioned.
I thoroughly enjoy your videos Hoover!! Excellent technical detail and research effort. Glad you’re back !! Keep up the great work!! I’m a 54 year aviator with the Wright Brothers Award for 50 or more years of accident flying. I was a US Naval Flight Surgeon on the USS Independence ( CV-62) in 1980-1982 and flew in EA-6B, KA-6D and S-3 aircraft as a Flight Surgeon on the Independence as well as H-3 Helos and P-3?Aircraft and Marine KC-130’s on shore. I’m a civilian CFII who still instructs in light aircraft. I have owned a Beech P-35 Bonanza since 1990 and still actively fly it. As you know, Flying is a challenging endeavor and a life long learning process. Your videos are helpful, entertaining and very educational. Keep up the great work!!
Great to see you’re back online, Hoover!Why, oh why do so many people ignore bad weather? Especially in blizzard conditions at night? Everyone could have gotten much needed sleep and delayed the flight until sunup! There’s plenty of blame to go around.
I keep saying the same thing. Good nights rest sharing a double bed motel in Mason City or Clear lake. I am sure they could have been accommodated with extra pillows and blankets if they were to share a room as likely to save money and someone took the floor next to the heater. Wake up to a hearty breakfast, and the fly to Fargo in daylight and have enough time to do laundry upon arriving at Moorhead
You look like Steve-O's brother that made better life choices... Edit: Stop commenting on how he is doing now. It's no secret and hasn't been that he is sober and doing well. Take the joke for what it is, that in the 90's and early 2000s Steve-O was off the rails. Just chill.
Glad you are back! Your ability to share general knowledge of flight while telling the story of those involved is a great talent. Thank you. Stay safe everyone!!!
As someone who have been a private pilot for over 37 years, and have over 700 hours in the V35 Bonanza, more than half of them in a 1947 model, which was its first year. The V tail or "butterfly tail Bonanza is a very unique aircraft, and is well known to any pilot who has ever flown one to be somewhat unstable. It's not bad, and very controllable, but you do need to work the rudder pedals more than any other aircraft I have ever flown. The V35 will develop a slight wobble, or weave, and if you don't use the rudder pedals to stop it, it can get worse. The V35 is often known as the "doctor killer". It requires more rudder input from the pilot than most other aircraft. I live in the southwest, and have never flown in icy conditions, so I don't know what kind of effect that would have. Since it crashed so soon after takeoff, it's very possible that the flight controls were badly iced up.
I am a 83-year-old Air Force Vet, Maintenance Technician, Flight Mechanic, retired from both Boeing and Northrop, a licensed pilot that on that cold freezing mist night I was at the Surf Ball Room with my date. I know thousands say they were there, but it just is not that big a ball room. I was 17 with my 14-year-old date. Since that night I can reflect that after the show all of us teens had to push cars out of the ditches along the road back to Mason City as the roads had iced over. That said, you may know we had a low ceiling with well below freezing temperatures which are the recipe for icing. As the plane hit the ground fairly flat, I am convinced that ice may have been on the wings prior to takeoff and built up quicky causing the plane to lose lift and go down. I also have learned the pilot was unqualified to do such a mission. A qualified pilot would not have flown that night! The news and history state that no one knew about the crash until the next morning but since the roads were so bad and it took so long to make the short trip to Mason City we stopped at a Sundry to get warm and something warm to drink. I called my dates dad to let him know where we were, and we would be really late getting home. Sometime after midnight the DJ's had a friend run in yelling, they crashed. Buddy and the others crashed., They all went crazy, but not sure if it were true. The next morning all the news was about the death of Buddy Holly. How did the guy that ran in know they had crashed? Don't know, but that was what happened.
@@paulmeissner66 It was such a long time ago, but it has been on my mind ever since the first reports came out. Being a high school student a farm boy and working at a grocery store after school then, I had little exposure to the news. It is years later I see reports that didn’t mention knowing the plane had crashed until the next morning. You may want to learn who the D J’s were that night. Good hunting the facts.
Correct. That Single Engine V35 1947 Beechcraft Bonanza had absolutely NO business being in the air that Cold Tuesday Night February 2-3,1959. It needed Deicing. Even if Peterson had the correct False Horizon, it STILL would lost Throttle and dived headfirst into the Ground. Meaning, Holly,Valens' and Richardson's deaths would have been much Worse. They also would have been aware they were going to Crash.
We travel through Clear Lake most years on our way to northern Minnesota. My husband won't stop as he's a man on a mission to go fishing and we have so many more hours to travel (it takes 10-12 hours to get there). Hoping some day I'll make it to the Surf ballroom, Do you have any memorabilia from that night like a ticket stub, etc.? Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for the analysis on this tragic yet historic crash Hoover. Good to see you back to posting. Hope some of the issues you recently encountered have been resolved and we can look forward to your future content.
I didn’t realize the tour schedule was such a hot mess. What a miserable experience in the upper Midwest in January and February! I went to college in a small town in Iowa and even in the 1990s, forty years after this crash, it’s incredibly dark at night. We sat out in the roof to look for the Hale-Bopp comet and could see it fine because there was no light pollution.
Flying up there during winter is just bad no matter what. Everything is literally frozen. It's in the negatives for months on end. Visibility is pretty much always bad and cloud coverage is really low. I feel like I'm trapped in a box when I'm in that area. Now add 1 am and a storm so yeah they were doomed I would've never got in that plane.
I got checked out in a V- tail Bonanza many moons ago. Loved the performance but the aircrafts handling characteristics at higher airspeeds was concerning. The tail would dance and produce almost like a dutch roll effect of a swept wing aircraft. My instructor said they were known as ‘fork tailed doctor killers’ in reference to the inordinate amount of doctors who bought them and perished in them. I can only imagine the instability this young pilot had as the aircraft exceeded VMO. I just never felt comfortable in that aircraft. The A6 with a conventional empennage was quite an improvement and I give Beechcraft credit for realizing their design issues and correcting them. Unfortunately, it came at a terrible cost. That is the nature of aviation. We call it the ‘tombstone mentality’, where people have to perish before anything changes. True to this day.
@@googalacticgooVelocity Maximum Operating, the maximum operating speed at sea level. I’m not sure why that would be mentioned in a comment on this case.
I grew up 20 miles from the crash site, and still have family in the area. LOTs of theories about what happened over the years. Jerry Dwyer always maintained there was more to the story he would eventually share, but he passed away about 8 years ago.
I would say Bill Haley started the rockabilly sound that was picked up by Holly and the others. The fact that they were outside of the aircraft after impact is very disturbing.
@@IBNED - you can stall at any airspeed if you exceed the critical angle of attack. It is probably disorientation and what they call a death spiral. Pulling on the elevator to gain altitude, but being in a bank, is how that happens.
There’s a whole video about that on here someplace. The conclusion was that when we see people with older hairstyles and older clothes, the only people we recall encountering who wear those were old, so we unconsciously perceive even younger people with that kind of hair and clothing as older.
I’ve had the worst day ever. Shitiest day. Shitty week. Depression inducing. Nothing I can do about anything. Yet I look on TH-cam and see new PD after what all has been going on. And now I’m so happy
I was over northern Wisconsin late one night in severe clear conditions. Visibility had to be greater than 100 miles. All of a sudden, the Champ stood up on one wing and nose up, or that what it felt like. It flew that way without changing airspeed or altitude so it was the gyros in my head that tumbled, not the ones on the panel. Those lying panel gages said we were still straight and level. The stars were almost exactly the same density and color as the lights at the farms on the ground. I'm still alive, proving I trusted those gages instead of my head in a plane that you wear, not fly. The next 45 minutes were the toughest time in my logbook. It's unbelievable how easy spatial disorientation can overwhelm you.
I first met Jerry Dwyer in 1985 and did business with him for over 30 years which lead to many discussions on this accident. Jerry was adamant that Roger was accidentally shot by one of the passengers on the aircraft. According to Jerry the Holly family asked him to find and return Buddy's gun after the accident and in surveying the aircraft wreckage, he told me he found a bullet hole in the instrument panel, located the gun and gave it to the Holly family. Jerry repeated this story to many of his colleagues and local fellow family flight operators throughout the region for as long as I knew him. The weather was solid VFR with good visibility within six miles of Mason City so all the hype on weather as a factor in meaningless since the poor conditions were not yet in the area. Granted, nighttime in northern Iowa is akin to IFR due to the scarcity of ground references. I knew Jerry to be one of the best stick and rudder pilots that I ever met and not one to exaggerate or create a fictional scenario. The aircraft had been insured by National Aviation Underwriters at the time of the crash and did hear the occasional supporting conversations from those insurance agents who were employed there. No photos were ever shown to me of the” bullet hole”. No autopsy was performed on the pilot. When Jerry passed away in 2016 and was working on his book to reveal all the details he had spoken about for those many years. Gary Moore was also writing a Buddy Holly book at the same time and had been challenged by Jerry and Barb Dwyer over the accuracy of his crash details. Sadly, at Jerry’s passing, he was stricken with Alzheimers and the mystery of his version was never revealed.
Great video. What's shocking to me is just how complete and full the weather briefings were - way back in 1959. But I guess the poor pilot never received the flash weather updates. An imprudent decision to 'go,' indeed. Too bad some of this still persists to this day.
The plan is to apply as a FA at one of the Big 3 - I already interviewed at all three & know where I belong - whenever apps open again as my mid-career job. Do my time on reserve, experience the joys & ruts of working in aviation & eventually ride into the sunset of my retirement on a fabulous schedule I curated based on seniority. Your channel is wonderful & you’re a fantastic storyteller. I’m also happy that I will never find myself working on a small aircraft because those things are death traps.
The Bonanza was manufactured on 11/14/1947. This is from the CAB report. The CAB report mentions what is the strongest possible cause of this accident. The attitude gyro in the V35, was the opposite of the ones he was familiar with in his training, he thought he was climbing, and turning left, when he was descending to the right. The report, is pretty interesting to read.
I don't think the Beechcraft Bonanza was even flying in 1945. That year was the last year of WWII which ended in September. Would Beechcraft been able to build a production Bonanza aircraft within months of the end of the war?
@@WAL_DC-6B The date of manufacture was- 11/14/1947.. I'd imagine, that Beechcraft already had plans for something post war, and, like the car makers- there was a HUGE market for new cars- and new airplanes for the public.
Thanks for the added info! I mixed the "Buddy Holly Story" a *while* ago and knew the personal/interpersonal aspects of the days leading up to the crash, but not the details of the crash itself. This was one of the only shows I've ever worked that evoked emotion in me EVERY show. Maybe because I was his age when I toured this show... Such a sad story, but glad I was able share the heartbreak with so many others.
It's amazing to me how in the US of the 50's, 60's and 70's small aircraft were assumed to be good travel options in all kinds of weather. Quite a few musical performers died in plane crashes.
Glad to see you. I just subscribed! Now to the opening image: LOOK AT THAT MAP!!! I drove a musician in a tour bus, but I would not commit to this tour if driving a BUS! Crazy!
That is not all of it, my father was Roger’s best friend. My father told me that he talked to Roger 20 minutes before the flight and Roger did not want to go. Roger was working to become an airline pilot and his boss told if he did not go he would lose his job. The wreckage still exists in a hanger in Clear lake.
I remember during my flight training my instructor would drive home the point that if weather looks dicey don’t leave stay home stay on the ground. The weather can be very unforgiving.
I only started watching aviation debriefs upon discovering this channel, and I abruptly stopped when it ran afoul of YT heavy-handedness which turned me off to the whole topic. Can't tell you how good it is to have you back Hoover, thanks for hanging in there!
We investigated ourselves and found out that it’s the pilots fault for not knowing the weather was bad even though we didn’t tell him TWICE. Some things never change…
I’ve heard this story several times over the years, but it was nice to get a fresh review from somebody who is qualified to deliver it in comprehensible fashion
If you liked this video then you should watch the terrifying pilot mistakes that killed Lynyrd Skynyrd: 👉 th-cam.com/video/chMcJoUNQX0/w-d-xo.html
Check out my new website to be the first to learn about FREE stuff that I'll have available soon! 👉 www.pilotdebrief.com
Holy molly... those instruments sure invite mistakes...
@@Onward4x4 They Skynyrd video is really good as well.
Already watched thank you.
@@Onward4x4😮
His name is at the memorial
Glad to see that TH-cam woke up and allowed your channel back on their site. Your debriefs are excellent and I think all pilots and especially students should watch your channel. Keep up the good work
I didn't realise that the channel was ever restricted. What happened? It doesn't seem like the type of content that normally falls foul of TH-cams policies.
@@rcarterbrown1 Read his Community post.
YT is the new GOP@@rcarterbrown1
Hoover was a sole proprietorship, created an LLC according to TH-cam guidelines, and they turned down the application which meant he could not post any videos because he was an unapproved LLC
@@jeffreycarpp4743 This fucking website gets more ridiculous every time I turn around.
I have been impressed with your reports for a long time. I am an Army Vet and private pilot. Finding out you were a jet fighter pilot and more didn't surprise me as your info is clear, concise, and relevant. Thanks for what you do sir!
I'm an army vet also. One night we were out in the field, and my friends were like, Stacy! We have a chance to fly in a c-130! Come with us! I said no thank you but they kept bugging me. Well, weren't they sorry when I ended up puking my guts out the whole time!😂
I'm retired AA Airbus captain and I started flying at 15 yrs , now 18,000 hrs flying. During my instrument training I had occasion to train on BOTH attiude indicators and after nearly rolling the plane using that old POS AI I refused to fly any of the trainers not updated. If I recall the old AI also indicated the turn was opposite what it was (turn left and the needle shows right) I can relate totally to the pilot. Also the briefer was negligent in not briefing the snow squalls .. I grew up in the midwest and at times during night you couldn't see any lights because the ranches were 80 miles apart = darkness up and darkness down ...... nice post.
Wow so the gauge even worked opposite to what you would think would be intuitive? Wow. Hard to believe that AI ever got produced.
@@AmeriFanPickerit was probably non standardization in the early days. In fact, Russian planes have the bank angle indicator turn opposite from Western planes.
I think some german fighter did that also. Russia had their AI colored Blue below and Brown on top... totally backward.
@@EllipsisAircraftit is blue on top brown at the bottom. Russian AI shows the aircraft symbol banking not the terrain moving.
@@EllipsisAircraft it’s not backward if you know no better is it 🤷♂️
The saddest part of this story is that Roger Peterson’s name is not on the memorial. He was a young man with big dreams and aspirations like the others.
He's not famous. Humans only care about famous people.
I feel sorry for him but he did cause the crash
@@keithmcwilliams7424I think I’d have to disagree because of the fact that Mr Dwyer allowed him to still fly the aircraft knowing that Roger had failed his instrument checkride and wasn’t authorized to fly the plane in that weather
Therefore, you cannot really blame Roger Peterson for it fully
Actually, that's not true. I saw pictures of a memorial at the crash site, with the Pilot's name on it. But I had to research how long it had been there. On Wikipedia it states that " In February 2009, a further memorial made from Stainless Steel by Ken Paquette for Roger Peterson was unveiled at the crash site"
The Day the Music Died was never so clearly described until this video. Thank you Pilot Debrief!!!
NEIL YOUNG
Dude, welcome back I’m so happy to see another video!! I’ve been watching your channel for a little over a year!! 😊
Awesome! Thank you!
Likewise I am happy, too.
(Not a viewer for as long, though.)
I trust the YT money mess is behind you.
@@pilot-debrief great to see you back man you’re my favourite aviation channel🎉
@@pilot-debrief: Apparently Roger Peterson’s death in this crash is of no significance?
RIP
Roger Peterson
(1937-1959)
Buddy Holly
(1936-1959)
Ritchie Valens
(1941-1959)
and
J.P. Richardson Jr.
(1930-1959)
So young, all of them. 💔
So very sad!😢Gone too soon!💔
As a rock n roll geezer and aviation enthusiast this one grabbed me. Good work Hoovie.
Nobody breaks it down like you. Such tragic experiences for all to learn from. Thanks for your expertise.
Great Debrief, as usual!
I asked a kid the other day if he knew what day was 'The Day The Music Died'.
He said "Yes, it was 10 May 1960".
I said: "Nope, it was February 3, 1959, the day Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and JP "The Big Bopper" died in a tragic plane crash."
The kid said: "Oh I thought it was 10 May 1960 , the day Bono was born."
LMAO! 🤘 ^v^
Lool that actually made me laugh. 😂
I'm an instrument rated private pilot and my instrument training was all done with the standard type of attitude indicator. I cannot imagine jumping into an airplane with the Sperry F3 gyro-indicator UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS where disorientation was very likely. Mr. Peterson must have been instantly disoriented as soon as he got above the runway lighting and into the snow. Very tragic.
It was a 1947 aircraft. Very similiar to the '54 that I owned.
During training one of my instructors had a saying - "I'd rather be a day late than 30 years early." Another one - "I'd rather be down there wishing I were up here than up her wishing I were down there." I've always landed and sometimes spent the night at a motel if I didn't like the weather. I'm still here.
If they pushed that departure until the morning it would have been fine. They'd still be there. They didn't have to leave then.
They could have stayed at Carol Anderson's place or shared a motel, getting a full night of sleep, eat a hearty breakfast and still have time to do laundry upon arriving at Moorhead. Sadly ironic, the weather conditions generally improved after that day for the remainder of the tour.
Great quotes.
There are bold pilots and there are old pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.
HE HAS RETURNED!! stellar seeing you again hoov
That’s quite an eye opener. I didn’t realize, until you posted the pic of the Bonanza’s Attitude Indicator, how the young pilot could have become disoriented.
Would have been good to show how it changes when the aircraft attitude changes - they work very differently.
I never understood why such an attitude indicator would exist in the first place
Russian attitude indicators of that era had "up" as dirt brown, and the "ground" was colored sky-blue.
They painted the cockpit teal blue to make the pilot feel relaxed.
Maybe if the most important instrument were not colored backward, they would not be so tense?😮
@@PEPcessna- Simplicity and utility. The Sperry Attitude Gyro (if you do a Google search for that exact term you’ll find a few cool things on the internet about it) - I was actually fortunate enough to find one of these on eBay for not all that much. It’s one of my cool aviation toys on my “I love me” bookcase (I’m not even a fighter pilot and I have one!).
Anyhow, back to the point: A conventional attitude gyro doesn’t indicate directly - if you think of the gyro as a sphere rotating about its vertical axis, and with a equatorial line on it which is parallel to and which would represent the earth’s horizon, the motion you are looking at is actually with respect to the side of the gyro OPPOSITE you.
The gimbaled gyro actually remains stationary in space while the aircraft (and the gyro’s case, which is literally screwed to the aircraft) moves AROUND the gyro. So to see what is happening with respect to the horizon, you need to observe the far side of the gyro. This is accomplished on a conventional attitude gyro with a complicated linkage which transmits this relative motion from the side of the gyro away from the pilot to a pictorial horizon card which the pilot sees. So, when the aircraft pitches nose down, the nose of the aircraft moves down with respect to the horizon line on the front of the gyro. HOWEVER, the aircraft symbol is on the side of the instrument toward the pilot (I’ll reference front or back of the aircraft or gyro henceforth for simplicity’s sake), since that of course is the part the pilot can see. Now, if I were to look directly at the back of the gyro (the side facing the back of the the aircraft), so the aircraft symbol attached to the instrument case facing the pilot would appear to move ABOVE the horizon line. Hence the need for a linkage, which transmits the relative motion of the horizon line on the front of the gyro (the side away from the pilot) as lower with respect to the aircraft symbol on the back of the instrument case as it rotates around the gyro.
Kw with all that said, the Sperry Attitude Gyro was the above WITHOUT the linkage - you were looking directly at the back of the ball which was the attitude gyro. This gave several advantages. The first I already hinted at: Simplicity due not having to have the mechanical linkage. This in turn provided a secondary benefit: The gyro was usable through 360 degrees of pitch and roll. You were literally looking at the back of the gyro, no linkage to limit the range of motion of the gyro before tumbling - it wouldn’t tumble! Definitely some advantage there, though from a real world standpoint I think it’s debatable how much of an advantage that really is.
The huge obvious disadvantage is of course the completely counterintuitive pitch display (roll presentation was conventional, since the movement of the case (aircraft) relative to the sides of the gyro is in fact the motion of the aircraft relative to the horizon around the roll axis). I say completely counterintuitive with respect to what I (and obviously you as well) were trained on or have some passing familiarity with. That said, there have been studies with completely non-conventional displays, and they can be learned and flown, but they aren’t necessarily optimal.
And that to me sums up the Sperry Attitude Gyro in a nutshell: A novel and somewhat innovative instrument that offered some significant advantages. Unfortunately, the risk factor of a pitch display that was very counterintuitive far exceeded the benefit of a non-tumbling gyro display.
@@EllipsisAircraft Yer I dont understand why they would have the attitude indicator as that orientation it dosn't add up to me why you would design something like that
I have notifications on for this channel and I was so glad to get notified that a new video was up!
Yay! Thank you!
Wow! I'm thrilled that you are back!
Me too I love Hoover!
Yeah, me too! 😊
Can someone explain what caused YT to react so harshly? I am still trying to find an explanation video
I new to this channel. Did TH-cam kick Hoover off awhile back?
I am French and not bilingual but your phrasing and pronunciation are so good that I (think I) understand every single word without any problem and it makes your videos even more unique! Thank you so much!
Yes, his _enunciation_ (the act of pronouncing words clearly or the fact of expressing and explaining a plan or principle clearly) skills are excellent.
@@432b86ed 🤪 Thank you... I mean it, I love the English language, it is so rich!
Your written English is better than most native speakers.
@@bluepvp900 Thanks BluePvp... I have been trying to improve my English all my life... 🙄
Your English is Awesome!
Flying at night with little or no reference to the ground is suicide for a non IFR pilot.
And in really bad weather as well.
@@sarahalbers5555 This. Even if Peterson had recognized the False Horizon, the V35 still would have lost throttle and stalled as soon as it reached altitude, due to it not being deiced.
Flying at night with little or no reference to the ground ON obsolete equipment reversing the ground and the sky, is even more suicidal.
Almost killed me once.
why be so negative?
So glad you’re back. You are my favorite aircraft channel. Love your empathy, compassion and understandable explanations. Onward and upward.
Glad you are back. Did you get TH-cam straightened out?
Why did you steal my comment good sire? Did you read my mind across the internet?
@@memovilmx6239 Perhaps great minds think alike
@@memovilmx6239 He was able to read your mind due to his ongoing subscription to the psychic friends network!
AWESOME!! Welcome back!
I don’t watch many flying channels because a lot lack credibility but this episode is further proof that knowledge is king: welcome back
Amazing that the weather advisory didn't mention the large snowfront coming through. Critical piece of information the pilot should have known about.
As it turns out that's not what actually caused the accident. But if they hadn't crashed soon after takeoff that storm might have gotten them later.
There is a small monument plaque for Roger Peterson at the crash site. It’s in the shape of a pair of wings. I believe the plane was actually a 1947 model. Another item I forgot to mention if it already hasn’t been is that both Roger Peterson and the Maguire flying service was not licensed to fly under instrument conditions. To note, because of this accident, this is what changed the regulation that commercial pilots cannot fly for hire, on cross country more than 50 nautical miles unless they have an instrument rating.
11:11 It was mentioned in the video as well.
I have read a report from the county coroner at the time relating to Mr Peterson. If my memory is not mistaken, I remember reading that Mr Peterson had some problem with his inner ear that contributed to the problems he encountered with his practical check-ride a few months before the fatal crash. The aircraft shows 1947 as year of manufacture, on the American registry.
@@dreednlb I know, my bad. I posted that remark prior to watching the entire video. I had a step away for a few moments. That’s why I mentioned if it hadn’t already been mentioned.
Didn't help Kobe', IMC still gets the best of them... ;[
There is also a monument to everyone, including the pilot, at the Surf Ballroom.
I thoroughly enjoy your videos Hoover!! Excellent technical detail and research effort. Glad you’re back !! Keep up the great work!! I’m a 54 year aviator with the Wright Brothers Award for 50 or more years of accident flying. I was a US Naval Flight Surgeon on the USS Independence ( CV-62) in 1980-1982 and flew in EA-6B, KA-6D and S-3 aircraft as a Flight Surgeon on the Independence as well as H-3 Helos and P-3?Aircraft and Marine KC-130’s on shore. I’m a civilian CFII who still instructs in light aircraft. I have owned a Beech P-35 Bonanza since 1990 and still actively fly it. As you know, Flying is a challenging endeavor and a life long learning process. Your videos are helpful, entertaining and very educational. Keep up the great work!!
Great to see you’re back online, Hoover!Why, oh why do so many people ignore bad weather? Especially in blizzard conditions at night? Everyone could have gotten much needed sleep and delayed the flight until sunup! There’s plenty of blame to go around.
As the old saying goes: haste makes waste.
I keep saying the same thing. Good nights rest sharing a double bed motel in Mason City or Clear lake. I am sure they could have been accommodated with extra pillows and blankets if they were to share a room as likely to save money and someone took the floor next to the heater. Wake up to a hearty breakfast, and the fly to Fargo in daylight and have enough time to do laundry upon arriving at Moorhead
Ya...JFK jr. Tried to fly in inclement weather. Nobody tried to stop him ?
Great to see you back making videos. Interesting debrief.
Hoover we are all delighted that you are back with more awesome presentations!
You look like Steve-O's brother that made better life choices...
Edit:
Stop commenting on how he is doing now. It's no secret and hasn't been that he is sober and doing well. Take the joke for what it is, that in the 90's and early 2000s Steve-O was off the rails. Just chill.
I have thought the same thing for the longest.
Hahahahaha I see it now
Have you seen Steve-O nowadays? He’s 15 years sober
I seriously don't see the resemblance ...
@@xDeeKayHDyes! Steve-o is doing just fine nowadays.
To fly or not to fly; that is the question. The task can cloud good judgment. Your research is amazing and detailed; welcome back!
Glad to see you back on air - insightful and thought provoking as always
Glad you are back! Your ability to share general knowledge of flight while telling the story of those involved is a great talent. Thank you. Stay safe everyone!!!
I appreciate that!
So very glad to see you back with the Pilot Debrief, Hoover !
As someone who have been a private pilot for over 37 years, and have over 700 hours in the V35 Bonanza, more than half of them in a 1947 model, which was its first year. The V tail or "butterfly tail Bonanza is a very unique aircraft, and is well known to any pilot who has ever flown one to be somewhat unstable. It's not bad, and very controllable, but you do need to work the rudder pedals more than any other aircraft I have ever flown. The V35 will develop a slight wobble, or weave, and if you don't use the rudder pedals to stop it, it can get worse. The V35 is often known as the "doctor killer". It requires more rudder input from the pilot than most other aircraft. I live in the southwest, and have never flown in icy conditions, so I don't know what kind of effect that would have. Since it crashed so soon after takeoff, it's very possible that the flight controls were badly iced up.
They were. The V35 had No deicing.
Good analysis. Never heard that weather update on this accident
This is one of the best TH-cam channels I have seen. Always good observations and interesting analysis.
I can’t believe how hard the pilot tried to be safe and twice the weather wasn’t explained!
Thank you for going over these old plane crashes as you are more in-depth and give us a real sense of what happened. 👍
I am a 83-year-old Air Force Vet, Maintenance Technician, Flight Mechanic, retired from both Boeing and Northrop, a licensed pilot that on that cold freezing mist night I was at the Surf Ball Room with my date. I know thousands say they were there, but it just is not that big a ball room. I was 17 with my 14-year-old date.
Since that night I can reflect that after the show all of us teens had to push cars out of the ditches along the road back to Mason City as the roads had iced over. That said, you may know we had a low ceiling with well below freezing temperatures which are the recipe for icing. As the plane hit the ground fairly flat, I am convinced that ice may have been on the wings prior to takeoff and built up quicky causing the plane to lose lift and go down. I also have learned the pilot was unqualified to do such a mission. A qualified pilot would not have flown that night!
The news and history state that no one knew about the crash until the next morning but since the roads were so bad and it took so long to make the short trip to Mason City we stopped at a Sundry to get warm and something warm to drink. I called my dates dad to let him know where we were, and we would be really late getting home.
Sometime after midnight the DJ's had a friend run in yelling, they crashed. Buddy and the others crashed.,
They all went crazy, but not sure if it were true. The next morning all the news was about the death of Buddy Holly. How did the guy that ran in know they had crashed? Don't know, but that was what happened.
That very interesting. I was at the Surf this past week for the first time and I've been researching the crash
@@paulmeissner66 It was such a long time ago, but it has been on my mind ever since the first reports came out.
Being a high school student a farm boy and working at a grocery store after school then, I had little exposure to the news.
It is years later I see reports that didn’t mention knowing the plane had crashed until the next morning.
You may want to learn who the D J’s were that night. Good hunting the facts.
Correct. That Single Engine V35 1947 Beechcraft Bonanza had absolutely NO business being in the air that Cold Tuesday Night February 2-3,1959. It needed Deicing. Even if Peterson had the correct False Horizon, it STILL would lost Throttle and dived headfirst into the Ground. Meaning, Holly,Valens' and Richardson's deaths would have been much Worse. They also would have been aware they were going to Crash.
We travel through Clear Lake most years on our way to northern Minnesota. My husband won't stop as he's a man on a mission to go fishing and we have so many more hours to travel (it takes 10-12 hours to get there). Hoping some day I'll make it to the Surf ballroom, Do you have any memorabilia from that night like a ticket stub, etc.? Thanks for sharing.
@@superpsyched5624 No. I really don't remember if we even got anything as these concerts were just on come in pay at the door.
I’m so glad you’re back! Thanks for posting this. I knew a few details but this answered questions I was just asking someone recently.
Good to have you back!
Thank you for the analysis on this tragic yet historic crash Hoover. Good to see you back to posting. Hope some of the issues you recently encountered have been resolved and we can look forward to your future content.
Great report. No fluff and/or filler. Just the facts. Thx Hoover, you're the Paul Harrell of aviation crash analysis.
Another great educational video. Great to have you back!
Thank you kindly!
Welcome back mate. Missed your knowledge and awesome delivery, thank you for this debrief
Great video! That was an eye opener. So glad you’re back in our inbox!
I really appreciate your channel. I’m glad you’re back.
glad to see you back on the grind to provide invaluable work for all to see, major props from all of us!
I didn’t realize the tour schedule was such a hot mess. What a miserable experience in the upper Midwest in January and February!
I went to college in a small town in Iowa and even in the 1990s, forty years after this crash, it’s incredibly dark at night. We sat out in the roof to look for the Hale-Bopp comet and could see it fine because there was no light pollution.
So glad to see you back, Hoover! Love learning from your accident analysis!
Hey great to see you back! Was getting worried there for a minute.
Great to see you still creating content. I’ve learned a lot from you. Your factual and professional analysis is much appreciated. Thanks Hoover.
Man o man. Glad you’re back on YT!🤟🤟🤟 Great video as always. 🤟🤟🤟
glad to see you got everything figured out! love your videos !
Glad to have you back sir! Love your way of sharing these stories
I watched the movie Labamba about Richie Valens. One of my all time saddest movies.
Richie had a fear of flying.
Glad to see you back sir! Sad story but a great debrief.
So glad your back Hoover great video
Oh my, thank you so much for this Hoover. I figured this was ancient history. I remember the day this happened. He was my favorite singer back in 59
Glad you are back again. I missed your debrief so much.
I appreciate that!
Ditto!
So glad you are back! You are one of my favorite aviation channels.
happy you're back! Enjoy the knowledge you share in all your videos, thank you.
Flying up there during winter is just bad no matter what. Everything is literally frozen. It's in the negatives for months on end. Visibility is pretty much always bad and cloud coverage is really low. I feel like I'm trapped in a box when I'm in that area. Now add 1 am and a storm so yeah they were doomed I would've never got in that plane.
Glad to see you back Hoover, thanks again for the expert analysis!
A true tragedy. Still amazes me how young they all were. I mean, Richie Valens was a rising star and only 17.
Welcome back Hoover. And seeing that attitude indicator on the accident aircraft made me literally go "Oh no!" out loud. Goodness me...
Glad the channel is back Hoover! This is one of the best aviation safety channels on TH-cam!! Thanks Hoover. Any updates on the hats??
I got checked out in a V- tail Bonanza many moons ago. Loved the performance but the aircrafts handling characteristics at higher airspeeds was concerning. The tail would dance and produce almost like a dutch roll effect of a swept wing aircraft. My instructor said they were known as ‘fork tailed doctor killers’ in reference to the inordinate amount of doctors who bought them and perished in them. I can only imagine the instability this young pilot had as the aircraft exceeded VMO. I just never felt comfortable in that aircraft. The A6 with a conventional empennage was quite an improvement and I give Beechcraft credit for realizing their design issues and correcting them. Unfortunately, it came at a terrible cost. That is the nature of aviation. We call it the ‘tombstone mentality’, where people have to perish before anything changes. True to this day.
What is VMO? I will have to look that up
@@googalacticgooVelocity Maximum Operating, the maximum operating speed at sea level. I’m not sure why that would be mentioned in a comment on this case.
Nice to have you back posting vids! you were missed
Welcome back Hoover. Sad that such talented people were killed.
These historical crash investigations have been awesome!!!
I learn something new every time.
Keep ‘em coming!!
I grew up 20 miles from the crash site, and still have family in the area. LOTs of theories about what happened over the years. Jerry Dwyer always maintained there was more to the story he would eventually share, but he passed away about 8 years ago.
Glad to have you back Hoover. Keep up the great work sir.
Great to see you back!
Welcome back 🎉
Thank you for dealing with the YT insanity and creating new content.
My mother attended that concert when she was 19.
Winter Dance Party is still going on year for year.
I would say Bill Haley started the rockabilly sound that was picked up by Holly and the others. The fact that they were outside of the aircraft after impact is very disturbing.
The airplane was traveling at 170 mph.
And the photos of the crash site with bodies visible in gruesome detail is available on the internet. Something I'd like to unsee.
Yep they flew right through the skin of the aircraft. Like being shot out of a canon through a brick wall and saling two hundred yards beyond.
Had lots of airspeed so no stall. Was he checking his rate of climb indicator and altimeter?
@@IBNED - you can stall at any airspeed if you exceed the critical angle of attack.
It is probably disorientation and what they call a death spiral. Pulling on the elevator to gain altitude, but being in a bank, is how that happens.
Happy to see you're back.
I look forward to your videos. Keep doing what you do.
Thank you for an in depth report.
Glad to see you're back! Love your channel and appreciate all the work you put into your videos. Thanks for sharing them!
I'm an old fart of 67 years but young people sure looked older in those days.
There’s a whole video about that on here someplace. The conclusion was that when we see people with older hairstyles and older clothes, the only people we recall encountering who wear those were old, so we unconsciously perceive even younger people with that kind of hair and clothing as older.
I'm 68 and I agree with you 100%
I'm 67 too. You are right.😊
I’ve had the worst day ever. Shitiest day. Shitty week. Depression inducing. Nothing I can do about anything. Yet I look on TH-cam and see new PD after what all has been going on. And now I’m so happy
I was over northern Wisconsin late one night in severe clear conditions. Visibility had to be greater than 100 miles. All of a sudden, the Champ stood up on one wing and nose up, or that what it felt like. It flew that way without changing airspeed or altitude so it was the gyros in my head that tumbled, not the ones on the panel. Those lying panel gages said we were still straight and level. The stars were almost exactly the same density and color as the lights at the farms on the ground. I'm still alive, proving I trusted those gages instead of my head in a plane that you wear, not fly. The next 45 minutes were the toughest time in my logbook. It's unbelievable how easy spatial disorientation can overwhelm you.
What's interesting is Ritchie Valens had a major fear of flying after seeing a mid air collision when he was in school
I first met Jerry Dwyer in 1985 and did business with him for over 30 years which lead to many discussions on this accident. Jerry was adamant that Roger was accidentally shot by one of the passengers on the aircraft. According to Jerry the Holly family asked him to find and return Buddy's gun after the accident and in surveying the aircraft wreckage, he told me he found a bullet hole in the instrument panel, located the gun and gave it to the Holly family. Jerry repeated this story to many of his colleagues and local fellow family flight operators throughout the region for as long as I knew him. The weather was solid VFR with good visibility within six miles of Mason City so all the hype on weather as a factor in meaningless since the poor conditions were not yet in the area. Granted, nighttime in northern Iowa is akin to IFR due to the scarcity of ground references. I knew Jerry to be one of the best stick and rudder pilots that I ever met and not one to exaggerate or create a fictional scenario. The aircraft had been insured by National Aviation Underwriters at the time of the crash and did hear the occasional supporting conversations from those insurance agents who were employed there. No photos were ever shown to me of the” bullet hole”. No autopsy was performed on the pilot. When Jerry passed away in 2016 and was working on his book to reveal all the details he had spoken about for those many years. Gary Moore was also writing a Buddy Holly book at the same time and had been challenged by Jerry and Barb Dwyer over the accuracy of his crash details. Sadly, at Jerry’s passing, he was stricken with Alzheimers and the mystery of his version was never revealed.
Jerry was assuaging his guilt for allowing the plane to take off.
Spatial disorientation & loss of horizon affected the pilot. Similar to JFK Jr.
@@SemiDad As well as Iced and Frozen Aircraft. V35s are Nearly Impossible to fly at Night especially with IFR.
Great video.
What's shocking to me is just how complete and full the weather briefings were - way back in 1959. But I guess the poor pilot never received the flash weather updates.
An imprudent decision to 'go,' indeed. Too bad some of this still persists to this day.
I remember that day well. A huge loss.
I to remember that day, was in HS playing Basketball, was very sad when I heard the reports. One of those times, “remember where you were”.
The plan is to apply as a FA at one of the Big 3 - I already interviewed at all three & know where I belong - whenever apps open again as my mid-career job. Do my time on reserve, experience the joys & ruts of working in aviation & eventually ride into the sunset of my retirement on a fabulous schedule I curated based on seniority. Your channel is wonderful & you’re a fantastic storyteller. I’m also happy that I will never find myself working on a small aircraft because those things are death traps.
The Bonanza was manufactured on 11/14/1947. This is from the CAB report. The CAB report mentions what is the strongest possible cause of this accident. The attitude gyro in the V35, was the opposite of the ones he was familiar with in his training, he thought he was climbing, and turning left, when he was descending to the right. The report, is pretty interesting to read.
I don't think the Beechcraft Bonanza was even flying in 1945. That year was the last year of WWII which ended in September. Would Beechcraft been able to build a production Bonanza aircraft within months of the end of the war?
@@WAL_DC-6B The date of manufacture was- 11/14/1947.. I'd imagine, that Beechcraft already had plans for something post war, and, like the car makers- there was a HUGE market for new cars- and new airplanes for the public.
@@WAL_DC-6B @WAL, the Beech first flew on DEC 22 1945 according to the manufacturer. Hope this helps.
@@billythekid3234 Yes, it is with deep shame and a bow my head and admit I was wrong about the Beechcraft Bonanza not flying in 1945.
Thanks for the added info! I mixed the "Buddy Holly Story" a *while* ago and knew the personal/interpersonal aspects of the days leading up to the crash, but not the details of the crash itself. This was one of the only shows I've ever worked that evoked emotion in me EVERY show. Maybe because I was his age when I toured this show... Such a sad story, but glad I was able share the heartbreak with so many others.
If your channel has taught me anything since finding it, is that im never chartering a private flight, ever.
So good to see you back!! I'm very new to your channel but definitely a fan. Informative and brief. Thanks.
It's amazing to me how in the US of the 50's, 60's and 70's small aircraft were assumed to be good travel options in all kinds of weather. Quite a few musical performers died in plane crashes.
Jim Reeves
Patsy Cline
Otis Redding
Jim Croce, to name a few.
Glad to see you. I just subscribed! Now to the opening image: LOOK AT THAT MAP!!! I drove a musician in a tour bus, but I would not commit to this tour if driving a BUS! Crazy!
That is not all of it, my father was Roger’s best friend. My father told me that he talked to Roger 20 minutes before the flight and Roger did not want to go. Roger was working to become an airline pilot and his boss told if he did not go he would lose his job. The wreckage still exists in a hanger in Clear lake.
That's Right. Peterson was just a Young Pilot trying to do his job and was doing what he was told.
I remember during my flight training my instructor would drive home the point that if weather looks dicey don’t leave stay home stay on the ground. The weather can be very unforgiving.
Glad you’re back! I was jonesing for my Pilot Debrief. Keep it coming.
Thanks!
Me too. I went into withdrawal symptoms.
I only started watching aviation debriefs upon discovering this channel, and I abruptly stopped when it ran afoul of YT heavy-handedness which turned me off to the whole topic. Can't tell you how good it is to have you back Hoover, thanks for hanging in there!
We investigated ourselves and found out that it’s the pilots fault for not knowing the weather was bad even though we didn’t tell him TWICE. Some things never change…
I’ve heard this story several times over the years, but it was nice to get a fresh review from somebody who is qualified to deliver it in comprehensible fashion