PROFILE CYLINDER REMOVAL: If you look very closely underneath the thumbturn there is a small slit in the metal. Take a sharp instrument (like a ice pick) and insert it into the slit and pull it down, you will feel it is spring loaded. That spring loaded mechanism stops the thumbturn from turning to the removal position. It might be easier to loosen the set screw on the thumbturn (metric allen) and take it off to see the slit/tab you are pulling down
Jason I can't Thank you enough for taking the time to explain the hardware and show a demo of the installation.( not to mention diagnosing the original problem) May another day for the experienced folks, but for a newbie like me this is gold Brutha!
I’ve replaced/serviced a lot of these type locks over the past several years. Very good video sir. And yes it is a shame that we can’t get small parts. Most of the multipoint door mechanisms fail the same way.
I see these a lot but as I've only been a locksmith a few years I've actually never had to work on one. Always worried about having to though, since I've never messed with them so this video is great. Much appreciated!
Thanks for the vid. Interesting to see how others deal with these locks. Most of the units I have to service in this area, are the Peachtree multipoint locks. The rod for those locks are inside of the door, and have to be pulled out and reinstalled with hemostat pliers. Those are not for the faint of heart!
Btw, thanks for pointing out the charging more with multiple trips. The last multipoint job I had, the customers door was stuck shut in the locked position and I had to cut the hinges to remove the door. The supplier replaced everything for free, hinges included but they sent directly to the customer and the handing was wrong and it wasn’t field reversible so they had to send another one so I had to make 3 trips. I learned the hard way to not bid the job other than trip(s) and hourly rate. Thanks again!
I deal with sometimes 4 of these a month. never less than 2 a month. Most of the time I get called when it is broke and in the locked position. On the hopper ones with an American style cylinder you can pop the trim and use a 3/4" hole saw to drill behind the trim into the lockbody and pop the open pretty quick. the only brand of these that seem to hold up are some of the Anderson ones, which then have an easily replaceable piece of the thumb turn break before any damage can really be down to the gears.
@@jamespetkwitz8737 Thanks! The last one I did the internal cam had broken (I did vid on it awhile back). It was warranted by “unique home designs” and they replaced everything including the hinges. Most of them are fairly easy to work on or replace but I opted to let warranty do it’s job as I never dealt with this brand. Just took forever for shipping. Thanks again!
Jason, I got a good one. Hoppe 9000 - Door closed, deadbolt is jammed in the locked position (thumb turn will not turn), tongue bolts retract, center latch and deadbolt don't. These locks are pretty nice, until the gearbox fails. Working on a house now with 4 broken gearboxes.
I’ve been pretty luck with these as the Allaboutdoors supplier is just few minutes down the street from me. They also have a decent website and can retrofit most hardware. Thanks for sharing!
I usually keep the center mortise part of the old ones and use parts out of them to repair others. They do have some boing factor when disassembling and assembling but if you’re careful you can do it. People get tough with them and damage the gears rather than trying to push or pull the door into alignment. Like you said the best bet is to replace them. I usually tell the customer the repair is to get them by until the new one comes in and we can get it installed. It’s funny the locksmith here who has been in business for fourth plus years won’t touch them. When he gets a call he gives them my number. I had one customer tell me the other locksmith told them I was the multipoint specialist. I look at it as a job is a job, charge accordingly.
My god, I was at a job yesterday. Customer had a broken hoppe, I youtubed some stuff and found a video you had from 4-5 years ago installing a HOPPE replacement… 😭 it didn’t really fix my issue but this video was what I needed. The profile cylinder at first wouldn’t retract the bolt back, nor would it come out at all. I managed to get the Profile Cylinder to pull the bolt back and forth like normal, but still couldn’t remove it from the mechanism. Of course once I got that done, the handle stopped retracting the latch. Cx just wanted the bolt w/ key to work so they could close the door. My lack of experience in these multi point systems really showed but I was able to come to some sort of solution. I just don’t know how the hell the profile cylinder will come out of that damn lock. It’s like the tail piece is hung up or something, no idea how they’ll get the HOPPE out when the cylinder is stuck where it’s at. Smh
I failed to mention it in this video but if you look really close under the thumbturn there is a tiny slit. If you jab a sharp ice pick thing in that slit and pull down, there is a springloaded tab that stops the thumbturn from rotating to the removal position :) You can feel the spring as you are trying to pull it down. If you remove the thumbturn by loosening the set screw on it you can see it better
@@selock oh my god! You are a legend Jason. Thank you! I’m calling that Cx now to tell him what you said. 👍 Let me make sure I understand, after I do the “ice pick” thing, I should then be allowed to remove the cylinder from the housing?
@@BigBlunts_Boxing you should be able to yes, it’s a bit finicky to do but if it has the little slit that’s definitely what keeps it from turning. If your thumbturn only rotated like a quarter turn that’s definitely it :) it’s just a little tab that stops it from rotating (also, I assume you removed the screw holding it in) once the tab is pulled down (towards floor) you can rotate it further to get to cam to the right position to pull it out. I updated this video with a pinned comment, I really should have mentioned it in video!
Hi, have you come across these that don't have screws/not screwed into the spine of the door? I have that type in my patio door, and I wish to replace the whole lot, gearbox and sliders etc for a user servicable unit. There aren't any screws holding the mechanism to the door side though. There are only 2 screws that hold the interior handle to the door, thats all.
I've heard of that type of lock but have not seen one .. If I by some chance run across one where can I find the measurement list and where can I order one to replace the old one ?? Also if I have any questions would it be ok to ask you ??? Neat video also... Thanks
Thanks for the tips as always. Had about 6 of these (pella) yesterday. Sure enough one was broken and the bolt wouldn't retract. Luckily there was another door in the room to egress and was able to lock it for now!
I tore one of these apart on live a few months back. Same issue with the stripped gears. I really hate dealing with these in general lol but we do get about an order a week from Strybuc and All about doors..
I replace a lot of multipoints here in NE, other smiths are afraid of them or don't think they are profitable. I just measured a Hoppe the paramedics kicked in a few hours ago so the next stop is all about. I own a lot of one by fours
Dang customers always want to pull up on the lever and turn the thumb turn at the same time, and you try to explain to them, it's a 2 step process. 1. Pull up on the Lever, that engages your top and bottom points. 2. turn the thumb turn, that locks the deadbolt in the middle and locks the handle in place for the top and bottom points. I explained this to a lady 5 times, and said "Ok, for the fifth time, go ahead and try it". What does she do? Up with the handle and thumbturn at the same time.. It's like I'm speaking a different language. Luckily here in Kansas City, we have "All About Doors and Windows" I can just take off the door and take it in and swap it out, don't have to wait for the mail.
Im a homeowner with two hoppe handlesets on two different Lincoln doors. I've only had the doors four years and I've already had to replace the springboxes on both doors in 2022 and now one of hte doors in 2024. Each time it's the springbox failing. They should be lasting more than two years, no?
Yes they should last much longer. I would confirm that the door is centered in the jamb first. Many of these have hinges that can be adjusted with a torx or Phillips screwdriver. There are videos here explaining door shimming for regular hinges. If your door has shootbolts that go into the top and bottom of jamb make sure the threshold one is cleared of sand and debris so the shootbolt doesn't 'bottom ou't. If it takes more force than expected to lock the door the strikes may need adjusted or you need to bring in a door guru. I have seen a lock that the installer did not make sure the deadbolt would extend without hitting wood inside the strike which caused the lock to fail prematurely so it can be weird things. A dozen years life would be normal for significant use
I wonder if anyone can advise. We had a new wooden door fitted and a new multi lock mechanism fitted into it. The lock works well but with one small problem. On our door the key won't fully turn or lock the door after the handle is moved to the up position and released. The only way the key will work is by keeping the handle in the up position. This isn't ideal as locking the door is a two handed process instead of just one. If anyone can suggest a solution it would be much appreciated.
hey man, i wish i knew about you sooner, i've came across one or more of these multipoint locks over the last week or two and upon doing research came to call them espagnolette? anyway id love to know if the name espagnolette even closely describes them and would love to give you props for your content!!!! keep it up. i've subscribed and looking forward to seeing what else you post. thank you !!!
ah not exactly, the "espagnolette" were typically surface mounted hardware while Multipoint locks are routed into the edge or concealed in the wood of the doors. Thanks for subscribing, welcome!
There is a part in there that "blows out the back" right behind the latch and (basically) the part that is supposed to turn is now blocked by the little tab of metal that blew out. That's typically what it is, and yeah time for a new one
10 months ago you probably already fixed it but you use shims to spread the door and jamb apart and a very carefully aimed angle grinder to cut the bolts. I've had to do it a lot
I have an older Hoppe key and do not recall what it goes to. It is hexagon shaped at the top and larger than a house entry key. Does anyone know if this is a car key? Thanks!
On the other side of the pond we pretty much switched over to cilinder-operated MPLs instead of the handle operated versions. I guess the latter does haves its weak points.
@@selock LOL exactly why i wear a dark grey vest and flat cap on service calls...Dang them Hardware salesmen and their need to push graphite....makes for a messy cleanup and a pissed off wife...LOL...could be worse i guess, I could have been born a Plummer digging up frozen sewer pipes!
typically I advise customers when these break to let me replace them with their single point variant when available. I then cut the entire old face plate and used it to fill in the routered channel on the edge of the door.
I find that most of the problems come from the fact that the shootbolts or toungues begin to not line up, and the cheap metal gears will start to shear and strip out.
Only came across these 2 times in 10 years. Pretty sure its a 3 point lock made by Baldwin? These locks, you actually have to take the door off the hinges, place the door on its side, then use a special tool to go up through the bottom to disconnect the 3 point lock.
Just took mine apart and of course it's the cheap pot metal teeth on the cog. just like what you are showing. I found the price of a new replacement multi point lock is around 215 dollars. I can find a single point for under 100. Has anyone ever taken a single point apart to see if the cogs are the same ? If so it would be easy the change just the bottom cog if they are the same and save a hundred dollars . It's beyond ridiculous that I have such an expensive multi point lock on a door that has glass panes in it. All someone has to do is break a pane out and in 10 seconds your in the door. Even the person that sold me the door had to laugh at that.
On the multi-point lock gear assembly that strips out you mentioned 3D printing well, if you had the ability to 3D metal print which is expensive you could make multiple replacement parts. Just an idea.
true, but there are so many different styles and other parts could break as well inside so I doubt it’s economically feasible for anyone to do it Also given the fact most locksmiths won’t even mess with these I doubt there would be many people who would attempt the repairs. Very low percentage I’m sure
These things suck, I work on these by the ocean and it can be simple as lubing all the points to get it working but for the majority the salt air kills these things.
PROFILE CYLINDER REMOVAL: If you look very closely underneath the thumbturn there is a small slit in the metal. Take a sharp instrument (like a ice pick) and insert it into the slit and pull it down, you will feel it is spring loaded. That spring loaded mechanism stops the thumbturn from turning to the removal position. It might be easier to loosen the set screw on the thumbturn (metric allen) and take it off to see the slit/tab you are pulling down
Jason I can't Thank you enough for taking the time to explain the hardware and show a demo of the installation.( not to mention diagnosing the original problem) May another day for the experienced folks, but for a newbie like me this is gold Brutha!
I haven't seen inside of the mortise body of a multipoint lock before, so pretty interesting stuff. Thanks for making this video.
I’ve replaced/serviced a lot of these type locks over the past several years. Very good video sir. And yes it is a shame that we can’t get small parts. Most of the multipoint door mechanisms fail the same way.
What is the best lubricant for the slider and the catches? I want to completely clean it and re lube.
I see these a lot but as I've only been a locksmith a few years I've actually never had to work on one. Always worried about having to though, since I've never messed with them so this video is great. Much appreciated!
Thanks for the vid. Interesting to see how others deal with these locks.
Most of the units I have to service in this area, are the Peachtree multipoint locks. The rod for those locks are inside of the door, and have to be pulled out and reinstalled with hemostat pliers. Those are not for the faint of heart!
Btw, thanks for pointing out the charging more with multiple trips. The last multipoint job I had, the customers door was stuck shut in the locked position and I had to cut the hinges to remove the door. The supplier replaced everything for free, hinges included but they sent directly to the customer and the handing was wrong and it wasn’t field reversible so they had to send another one so I had to make 3 trips. I learned the hard way to not bid the job other than trip(s) and hourly rate. Thanks again!
I deal with sometimes 4 of these a month. never less than 2 a month. Most of the time I get called when it is broke and in the locked position. On the hopper ones with an American style cylinder you can pop the trim and use a 3/4" hole saw to drill behind the trim into the lockbody and pop the open pretty quick.
the only brand of these that seem to hold up are some of the Anderson ones, which then have an easily replaceable piece of the thumb turn break before any damage can really be down to the gears.
@@jamespetkwitz8737 Thanks! The last one I did the internal cam had broken (I did vid on it awhile back). It was warranted by “unique home designs” and they replaced everything including the hinges. Most of them are fairly easy to work on or replace but I opted to let warranty do it’s job as I never dealt with this brand. Just took forever for shipping. Thanks again!
Good business advice there, always interested in how other locksmiths operate their business.
great video, exactly the issue I had. thanks for opening it up, and it shows the same issue I'm having. time to measure and order a new one!
Jason, I got a good one. Hoppe 9000 - Door closed, deadbolt is jammed in the locked position (thumb turn will not turn), tongue bolts retract, center latch and deadbolt don't. These locks are pretty nice, until the gearbox fails. Working on a house now with 4 broken gearboxes.
Oof that’s rough
Great video Jason. Didn’t realise you guys used MPL over the pond!! Great to see 😊
Solid video, thank you. My Roto 400 has slowly become more and more impossible to lock and I plan to use this info as I troubleshoot.
I’ve been pretty luck with these as the Allaboutdoors supplier is just few minutes down the street from me. They also have a decent website and can retrofit most hardware. Thanks for sharing!
They are great for sure!
I usually keep the center mortise part of the old ones and use parts out of them to repair others. They do have some boing factor when disassembling and assembling but if you’re careful you can do it. People get tough with them and damage the gears rather than trying to push or pull the door into alignment.
Like you said the best bet is to replace them. I usually tell the customer the repair is to get them by until the new one comes in and we can get it installed.
It’s funny the locksmith here who has been in business for fourth plus years won’t touch them. When he gets a call he gives them my number. I had one customer tell me the other locksmith told them I was the multipoint specialist. I look at it as a job is a job, charge accordingly.
My god, I was at a job yesterday. Customer had a broken hoppe, I youtubed some stuff and found a video you had from 4-5 years ago installing a HOPPE replacement… 😭 it didn’t really fix my issue but this video was what I needed. The profile cylinder at first wouldn’t retract the bolt back, nor would it come out at all. I managed to get the Profile Cylinder to pull the bolt back and forth like normal, but still couldn’t remove it from the mechanism. Of course once I got that done, the handle stopped retracting the latch. Cx just wanted the bolt w/ key to work so they could close the door. My lack of experience in these multi point systems really showed but I was able to come to some sort of solution. I just don’t know how the hell the profile cylinder will come out of that damn lock. It’s like the tail piece is hung up or something, no idea how they’ll get the HOPPE out when the cylinder is stuck where it’s at. Smh
I failed to mention it in this video but if you look really close under the thumbturn there is a tiny slit. If you jab a sharp ice pick thing in that slit and pull down, there is a springloaded tab that stops the thumbturn from rotating to the removal position :) You can feel the spring as you are trying to pull it down. If you remove the thumbturn by loosening the set screw on it you can see it better
@@selock oh my god! You are a legend Jason. Thank you! I’m calling that Cx now to tell him what you said. 👍 Let me make sure I understand, after I do the “ice pick” thing, I should then be allowed to remove the cylinder from the housing?
@@BigBlunts_Boxing you should be able to yes, it’s a bit finicky to do but if it has the little slit that’s definitely what keeps it from turning. If your thumbturn only rotated like a quarter turn that’s definitely it :) it’s just a little tab that stops it from rotating (also, I assume you removed the screw holding it in) once the tab is pulled down (towards floor) you can rotate it further to get to cam to the right position to pull it out.
I updated this video with a pinned comment, I really should have mentioned it in video!
@@selock you are truly amazing! Thank you.
Ran into a few of those in Scottsdale...damn rich people and their fancy-dancy locks!!!
Thanks Jason.
Thanks for the information 👍
That's crazy... I was looking at a MPL for the house I'll be buying in the future. Good timing on the video!
Hi, have you come across these that don't have screws/not screwed into the spine of the door? I have that type in my patio door, and I wish to replace the whole lot, gearbox and sliders etc for a user servicable unit. There aren't any screws holding the mechanism to the door side though. There are only 2 screws that hold the interior handle to the door, thats all.
I've heard of that type of lock but have not seen one .. If I by some chance run across one where can I find the measurement list and where can I order one to replace the old one ?? Also if I have any questions would it be ok to ask you ??? Neat video also... Thanks
allaboutdoors is your best source, their website has all the needed info!
@@selock Thank you sir ...
Thanks for the tips as always. Had about 6 of these (pella) yesterday. Sure enough one was broken and the bolt wouldn't retract. Luckily there was another door in the room to egress and was able to lock it for now!
I tore one of these apart on live a few months back. Same issue with the stripped gears. I really hate dealing with these in general lol but we do get about an order a week from Strybuc and All about doors..
I replace a lot of multipoints here in NE, other smiths are afraid of them or don't think they are profitable. I just measured a Hoppe the paramedics kicked in a few hours ago so the next stop is all about. I own a lot of one by fours
What is the best lubricant for the slider and the catches? I want to completely clean it and re-lube a gunked up mechanism..
Houdini. Lowe's sells it as does that huge online retailer. Never ever spritz WD40 in a lock period. You will love Houdini
@skygh I ended up completely stripping it and regreasing it. Perfect. I know WD40 is the reason I was called. She had been spraying in regularly.
I see Andy @Lockwoods doing these often. I did not know you would find them in North America.
Got another coming up this week Gumby 😁
Dang customers always want to pull up on the lever and turn the thumb turn at the same time, and you try to explain to them, it's a 2 step process. 1. Pull up on the Lever, that engages your top and bottom points. 2. turn the thumb turn, that locks the deadbolt in the middle and locks the handle in place for the top and bottom points. I explained this to a lady 5 times, and said "Ok, for the fifth time, go ahead and try it". What does she do? Up with the handle and thumbturn at the same time.. It's like I'm speaking a different language.
Luckily here in Kansas City, we have "All About Doors and Windows" I can just take off the door and take it in and swap it out, don't have to wait for the mail.
Im a homeowner with two hoppe handlesets on two different Lincoln doors. I've only had the doors four years and I've already had to replace the springboxes on both doors in 2022 and now one of hte doors in 2024. Each time it's the springbox failing. They should be lasting more than two years, no?
Yes they should last much longer. I would confirm that the door is centered in the jamb first. Many of these have hinges that can be adjusted with a torx or Phillips screwdriver. There are videos here explaining door shimming for regular hinges. If your door has shootbolts that go into the top and bottom of jamb make sure the threshold one is cleared of sand and debris so the shootbolt doesn't 'bottom ou't. If it takes more force than expected to lock the door the strikes may need adjusted or you need to bring in a door guru. I have seen a lock that the installer did not make sure the deadbolt would extend without hitting wood inside the strike which caused the lock to fail prematurely so it can be weird things. A dozen years life would be normal for significant use
I wonder if anyone can advise.
We had a new wooden door fitted and a new multi lock mechanism fitted into it. The lock works well but with one small problem.
On our door the key won't fully turn or lock the door after the handle is moved to the up position and released. The only way the key will work is by keeping the handle in the up position. This isn't ideal as locking the door is a two handed process instead of just one.
If anyone can suggest a solution it would be much appreciated.
Thank you so much for posting this!
What is the best lubricant for the sliding rail?
Great detailed video. Thanks
Have a three straight dead bolt door need knobs need to know what kind to get.
Hi, I have an Andersen series 400 inswing storm door. Where is best place to obtain a replacement multi door lock? Thanks!
thanks jason never seen one of them thanks for sharing
Very helpful info. Thank you for that.
How do you get the door to open when it’s stuck in the locked position?
@@stevenkirkpatrick8973 it usually requires carefully crafted destruction unfortunately
hey man, i wish i knew about you sooner, i've came across one or more of these multipoint locks over the last week or two and upon doing research came to call them espagnolette?
anyway id love to know if the name espagnolette even closely describes them and would love to give you props for your content!!!! keep it up. i've subscribed and looking forward to seeing what else you post. thank you !!!
ah not exactly, the "espagnolette" were typically surface mounted hardware while Multipoint locks are routed into the edge or concealed in the wood of the doors. Thanks for subscribing, welcome!
My handle isn’t droopy, it just won’t let me turn the handle down at all. Any fix to that? Or still need to replace whole thing?
There is a part in there that "blows out the back" right behind the latch and (basically) the part that is supposed to turn is now blocked by the little tab of metal that blew out. That's typically what it is, and yeah time for a new one
how do I unlock my multi point shoot bolt back door it's stuck deadbolt want unlock
I have one that is stuck in the closed position. What do I do?
10 months ago you probably already fixed it but you use shims to spread the door and jamb apart and a very carefully aimed angle grinder to cut the bolts. I've had to do it a lot
how much would the tracking cost
Does anyone make a replacement mechanism for a Pella Door? I got a quote from Pella and it is about $1000 just for the part.
I have an older Hoppe key and do not recall what it goes to. It is hexagon shaped at the top and larger than a house entry key. Does anyone know if this is a car key? Thanks!
On the other side of the pond we pretty much switched over to cilinder-operated MPLs instead of the handle operated versions. I guess the latter does haves its weak points.
yes, there is graphite on my face 🤷♂️
How did that happen? Graphite gun go off or something?
@@ImGumbyDangit residual hazards
@@selock LOL exactly why i wear a dark grey vest and flat cap on service calls...Dang them Hardware salesmen and their need to push graphite....makes for a messy cleanup and a pissed off wife...LOL...could be worse i guess, I could have been born a Plummer digging up frozen sewer pipes!
@@MTwoodsrunner whenever Kim says “you smell like metal, I’m always like “hey! I’m not a plumber!”
@@selock Good answer!!!
typically I advise customers when these break to let me replace them with their single point variant when available. I then cut the entire old face plate and used it to fill in the routered channel on the edge of the door.
I find that most of the problems come from the fact that the shootbolts or toungues begin to not line up, and the cheap metal gears will start to shear and strip out.
a lot of the single point variants also doing have the little actuator pin that is a weak link on the multipoints
Great info -- Thanks for sharing
Nice Job And Diag.
I had a spring go out in one. After a half hour of research. I learned these should be hated and avoided.
hehe, yep :)
What if door is stuck shut
You will have a bad day :(
Is there a way to get it opened? We have a MPL that broke with the door closed.
Only came across these 2 times in 10 years. Pretty sure its a 3 point lock made by Baldwin? These locks, you actually have to take the door off the hinges, place the door on its side, then use a special tool to go up through the bottom to disconnect the 3 point lock.
Baldwin does make some kind of this thing but this one was Hoppe
All geared up and no place to go......
Have a great day
I have taken mine apart and with you could just buy the stripped gears.
Just took mine apart and of course it's the cheap pot metal teeth on the cog. just like what you are showing. I found the price of a new replacement multi point lock is around 215 dollars. I can find a single point for under 100. Has anyone ever taken a single point apart to see if the cogs are the same ? If so it would be easy the change just the bottom cog if they are the same and save a hundred dollars . It's beyond ridiculous that I have such an expensive multi point lock on a door that has glass panes in it. All someone has to do is break a pane out and in 10 seconds your in the door. Even the person that sold me the door had to laugh at that.
The 9 series is a pain to repair. The 8 series is alot easier to repair. I can testify that it's been made for easy upgrades
When the handle spins rather than change the hole thing costing $150 or more. Open it up and change the cam washer. Simple for a diy er
On the multi-point lock gear assembly that strips out you mentioned 3D printing well, if you had the ability to 3D metal print which is expensive you could make multiple replacement parts. Just an idea.
true, but there are so many different styles and other parts could break as well inside so I doubt it’s economically feasible for anyone to do it
Also given the fact most locksmiths won’t even mess with these I doubt there would be many people who would attempt the repairs. Very low percentage I’m sure
So I’m not screwed, I’m unscrewing 😂
These things suck, I work on these by the ocean and it can be simple as lubing all the points to get it working but for the majority the salt air kills these things.
nooooo