Shout out to engineers who make music. I was a plumbing/mech engineer but now in construction tech. Just bought a Maschine Plus. I have never taken to the Maschine fully until now, it makes so much more sense to me standalone.
I got into making house and techno beats on a Korg Electribe over two years ago. When the lockdowns started this year I got myself a Maschine MK3 and I absolutely love it! Maschine is really great for people who like sketching tracks on hardware and then mastering or refining sounds in a DAW.
I'm always on the hunt for the best groovebox... none of the ones I've tried do everything right, but the Circuit has definitely been the most fun for me to use. Really appreciate you going into all the details about the pros and cons of each. Love the track demos, too. Just goes to show that, with a few exceptions, you can make almost any kind of electronic music on any kind of hardware!
100% agreed. I've had a ton of fun with the Circuit, but grooveboxes in general have gotten really good. Learning one inside and out is the move, and you're living proof of that.
It's almost sad the original Electribe range has been out of production for so long. Each gen 1 box runs for like 150-200 usd and gives you a suprising amount of value. Not to mention the X line, which literally had tube drivers in them
I dont understand why they didnt make more like the electribe x. That box made so much sense for playing live at parties. A synth/sampler, a drum machine, a preamp and an effects chain and a bunch of handy live features(like that beat repeat thing). I cant wrap my head around why they didnt reissue that
@@LucIndustries Korg is..... Korg....... they kinda just do their own thing and sometimes make really nice stuff but refuse to update it and then just keep doing their own thing.
With so many awesome options to choose from, this is a good overview discussion. Nothing replaces getting your hands on one and forcing yourself to dive deep until you master it. This is the best way to determine what your own particular priorities are, and equips you to better know which NEXT groovebox to get. Did I mention I have three already..... lol Help. No really I am okay.
Love your videos. I think you should get your hands on a second-hand Electribe EMX-1. (The one with the tubes). It's an amazing groovebox and very, very different from everything else, both in regard of sound and user interface.
I definitely want to give it a go at some point! I'm nearly through the list of the most highly requested modern grooveboxes, so once I've finished that, I'll hopefully have some time to throw at some more retro stuff.
You say that the Electribes are gridlocked. However, I believe you can have different swing and quantize-scales per pad/voice. The Elektron Model Cycles also allows you to have different quantize settings for each of the six tracks. Synth-only grooveboxes such as the Circuit Monostation or Sonicware's Liven 8bit warps are gridlocked but you can change the grid so that a given pattern plays in triplets or whatnot.The Volcas are gridlocked and the earliest models don't even have swing. That said, standalone sequencers such as Arturia's Beatstep/Keystep Pro or Korg's SQ64 allow you to get round that.
Answered all my questions! I’ve just been using an iPad hooked up to a reverb pedal for a few months now, and getting ready for a groove box. Only problem is I ordered a deluge like an hour before seeing this, lol.
The Deluge looks like an absolutely fantastic option for both sample stuff and synthesis, plus seemingly infinite layers. I've not used one myself, but I'd say you made a great choice. And regardless, as long as you pick something and commit to learning it inside and out, you'll do well
it's more likely to be the double whammy of Covid - more people buying them as they find themselves at home with nothing to do plus fewer being made due to difficulties keeping factories socially distanced and Covid safe. then again, it's been out for 5 years so maybe an upgrade is on the horizon, who knows.
I loved the Circuit when it released but I always felt frustrated of the limited drum features. I bought the MC101 for the drums and even if the workflow is much more difficult on the MC101 than on the Circuit, I won't ever go back. The MC101 is a beast of sounds and features. The only limitation is the 4 tracks only but if that is a major flow for anyone, the MC707 is the answer. (I own the Circuit, the Circuit Monostation, the MC101 and the MC707. My go to all time favorite is the MC101 for its sounds and portability.)
Hi Gabe! I'm so glad I found this channel! I am trying to find the perfect drum machine for live performances. So far I am interested in the Novation Circuit and the Roland MC-101. However, as much as I love EDM, I don't organically compose that kind of style. Therefore, I am wondering if these drum machines are compatible for various genres and musical tastes? Also, I am looking for something very hands on. For instance, I use my Boss 505 loop station, I play and sing by my keyboard and guitar and I just want a simple device where I can push pads and create a quick beat to have behind my instrumental sounds and voice. Can this be accomplished with the Novation/Roland 101? Thanks!
I personally love using my circuit for my jazz fusion music, I can create great synth tracks that also have room for organic instruments to mesh with jt
Did you make a decision? I don't think there's a more immediate device than Novation's circuit/tracks/Rythm. The MC101 is a much more complex device. But obviously much more powerful. Obviously once you learn it's workflow you will become very proficient using it. The thing Novation's devices have is their surface simplicity. It's basically all laid out on the surface. The MC101 will have you doing a bit of menu searching for it's many more functions.
Great video. If they made a groove box that also did full-length audio track recording and editing, it would be perfect for me. But probably the next closest thing would be a multi-track recorder with midi and a groove box synced together. Second problem: nobody makes a proper multitrack recording station with midi any more (System 12 doesn't count- it has no track bounce function). All that said, if I had an older DP-01 or DP-02 with midi, and an MC-101, there isn't much I couldn't do with that combo.
Great video, Kudos! I’m a hobbyist in the market for a groovebox, to make Skinny Puppy-like soundscapes [without the “singing”], on the cheap. I don’t care for beats. Don’t care for/or understand DAW. Just want to have fun making some harsh-y sounds with next to no beats. Been gathering info, and I think I’m down to: the Roland mc-303 or the Novation circuit, as they are both ‘round the same price range in the second hand market. But, the 303 might be too limited [then again musically, so am I…] and the learning curve for the Novation circuit seems awfully steep, for an old fart like me. What do you think or suggest? I’d appreciate any insight. Thank you kindly
The AKAI force is amazing, but there is some menu diving. It is a bit higher priced, but I got one new for $800 with a bit of patience and watching the market. It is a full DAW in a box, akin to Ableton, but the workflow can be a bit clunky in exchange for an amazing amount of power and control. I like to use it as a sequencer to drive the midi inputs on a number of analog synths at the same time, and is a damn good drum machine/sampler. I really like it as a step away from ableton over to an analog workflow.
That 'hobby' aspect of being away from the computer is exactly the same reason I looked to the OPZ and other groove boxes to make music. Great video and thank you for the content! Question? Would you ever want to produce content in 360 video format?
i think i'm still going to go with MC101 though the dirtiness of the Novation Circuit really appeals to me too. I'm thinking if I really have at the Zencore stuff and make some custom patches I might be able to find something dirtier/more lofi.
Hi Gabe, I know this is an old video but hoping you sss this. I’m new to all this and toyed around with a Motif back in like 2004. I don’t play any instruments but have alot of Melodies in my head. Trying to figure out the best way to get this into a groove. What’s the most user friendly as well as provide you with the ability to maybe compensate for my lack of playing anything? Groove box? Keyboard? I want something that I can just use as hardware for now. Versatile that could do dance music but also pop. My Melodies are simple pop melodies but I think catchy idk.
Yeah novation circuit looks nice for drum and bass but MC 101 I think its the best. Very clean sounding as on drum and bass lot of distortion its used. Others finish by saturate.
Great presentation as usual, with one small concern: I have no idea what 'flipping samples' means, even after looking at some articles that use the term - does is it mean beat slicing? Replacing samples in a sliced beat?
Would you recommend getting an Electribe for making drum’n’bass? I kind of fell in love with that box because of the synthwave tracks you’ve made with it, but forced quantization might be a dealbreaker for that. I like it when beats ar a bit “off”.
Just starting to really get into the gloveboxes. Glad to see that the Circuit is on your list of favs because that is the one that I am starting with (i am a terrible Novation fanboy) I did like your MPC One Blew My Mind edit. You recommended it as not being a good choice for beginners. What do you recommend? Love the one finger chords being a bass player not a keyboard player. Anything I can switch between loops with a midi foot pedal is great. Hope that makes sense.
nice vid Gabe, as always. I am looking for a groovebox where I can program melodies (lead/bass) controlling the size of the notes (wholes,1/2 1/4 etc), and visulaize it as a kind of piano roll or some sort of it, I have in my short list the deluge and the polyend tracker. Is there any other option that is not just a sequencer?, maybe the maschine +, but the size look biger than dely and polyend tracker
i think the OPZ gets a bad rap. The unit itself is wildly powerful. No other device that can fit in my pocket (that i know of) can sample flip, supports USB midi keyboards and controllers, has 8 tracks and so much automation and randomization and jamability AND can sequence external midi gear (with the op-lab module). The device really only falls short because the physical unit itself isn't robust and feels very toy like in your hand. But as a mobile DAW/groovebox i don't think there's anything smaller or more powerful that i've seen.
I have a question. I am singer and I want to start making songs easily and quickly. I dont know how to play any instruments but I still want to make music. My boyfriend is a music producer and makes his own music, he said I could get some plug ins like the Scaler 2 and some other different kinds that effect tone. Scaler is like $50 and one of the other ones he has that he says is good is like $120. To me making a melody through one plug in, then using another plug in, then another, then putting them all into one place seems complicated. So he recently recommended getting a Circuit because its simple and battery powered. I have been watching a lot of videos (specifically of Gabe's) and I am almost sold but I am still not sure if it would be the right fit for what I want to do. I really want to make a softer kind of music (kind of like Billie Eillish or Clario), I dont want to make anything very electric sounding. My boyfriend says with the Circuit I can make the sound I want and then put it into Adobe Audition and then record my voice and put it all together. It seems a lot of live DJs and electronic musicians use the Circuit but can anyone give me their opinion on whether or not the Circuit would be a good fit for someone like me?
One year ago I owned a po-33 pocket operator and I really liked it. Do you recommend something like this one but more advanced ? I was thinking about the sp404 but don't know if it's good for my usage (dawless production).
If you like the PO-33, I think the Novation Circuit Rhythm would actual be perfect for you, in many ways it's like a scaled up version of the PO. I've had great luck using it for DAWless production and jamming as well, and have done quite a few videos showing that process.
Good video covering your experience with groove boxes. I'd pick up an MC101 today if they made a PC editor for it as I'm not a preset with light tweaks kind of guy, but am actually looking for some specific kind of supersaw sounds that I'd like to program from scratch. I know circuit has an offline editor, and I think it would made a great scratch pad, but the sound of it isn't quite what I'm used to (Ableton / Serum). If Roland releases that editor or Novation comes out with a mk2 circuit with a slightly more "polished" sound engine, I'm sold. The Akai Force I bought but ultimately returned due to firmware issues and Akai support sucking, but it was *almost* a large but stand-alone Ableton.
As far as I know, Roland did release a more in-depth Zencore patch editor recently-ish. I haven't had a chance to give it a go yet, but it's worth a look. What kind of bugs did you have with the Force? I'm thinking about giving one a go eventually.
@@GabeMillerMusic I'll have to look into that again. Everything I've read said editing on the 707 is full featured (with lots of menus), and the 101 is a preset machine with a few tweakable parameters. The Force was on 3.04 and 3.04 beta when I had it not too long ago. 3.04 didn't include an arranger and although the beta did include an arranger, it broke the Force's ability to act as an Ableton controller. It is my understanding that they are now out of beta, and maybe those things are fixed? It is an amazing piece for the money when you think about it as a kind of touch screen computer, DAW, audio interface, pad controller, sound library, etc.. I recommended it to a friend who is didn't love trying to write music in logic, and she loves it. Akai's support for firmware seems outrageously slow, like year gaps in some cases, but admittedly steady. I'm very invested in Ableton, so whatever hardware I buy needs to play well and not slow me down compared to just using a computer.
@@GabeMillerMusic I got the bottom of the MC101 situation. For "as low as" $3 per month or $30 per year, Roland will give you a plug-in that doubles as an editor. This plug-in let's you transfer presets, and assign the 4x controls the preset gives you access to. The MC101 can play back any zencore preset, but none of the modelling stuff. IMO that is rough. Seems like Roland is taking a page from Adobe's book and many people I know don't love the endless subscription model. $3 per month isn't bad if you have the discipline to stop it at some point, I guess after you build up you preset library, but everytime inspiration strikes and you want to make a new sound, it's $3 that month to do it. I dunno if that is worth it for my use case, or anyone's really, unless you are already invested in the roland system.
The quick answer is time. I work a full time job as an engineer, and I'm trying to have some semblance of a social life while pumping out three videos a week and finding time to make music (which feeds the videos). Plus, I want to give any new gear I try the attention it deserves and really learn how it works before I put an opinion out there. Also, I have to choose new gear based on a combination of what I find interesting at the moment and what my audience has been asking for. The Deluge is on the list, but it's a really long list and I've got a backlog to work through.
Are there any group boxes out there that work well with guitarists? I play guitar and I don’t want to use a DAW because I use computers all day. The thought of connecting my guitar to a computer just does not really appeal to me. Anything out there for guys like me?
I've had a decent experience with connecting an electric guitar to my MPC One (it even has a tuner)... That'll pop up in a video eventually. The Roland MC-707 miiiiiight work too.
I make indie pop kinda music and used to play everything live off my laptop but wanna move away from that. I’ve tried the sp 404 and the electribe AND programming everything long form with the tr-08 but now I’m thinking about grabbing an mc101. Anyone else using a groove box for this sort of thing and have experience?
3:41 I've decided to use Xmas to give my Model Cycles a second chance. The menu-diving (LFO-settings/Retrigger-settings/Project-management/etc) is an accessibility nightmare. One other problem I have is the game-style "save point" pattern writing workflow. Whereas most other gear requires the user to save changes to a pattern as they go along, the EMC automatically saves any changes made to a pattern and the EMC user needs to create undo savepoints. As a non-Gamer, that seems backwards to me.
Soooo, for a beginner that uses ableton live as his main DAW, the best option is the circuit? I'm between the electribe or circuit. In your opinion, which would be better for someone who wants groveboxes for dj sets/lives? (And, yeah, if it's possible, that doesn't require me to sell my left lung, please) Great video man, you really help and listen the community.
I really like the TR-8S as it allows you to go pretty deep with sound desing but there are some serious limitations when trying to automate for complete tracks. Its a drum machine but since the 2.0 update it is basically a groovebox light imho. Check out the video "tr-8s the perfect techno machine" for some performance ideas. I went with it as a first device because you learn a lot about rythms and sound by locking yourself into that pattern but its not for everyone. Also im currently saving up for a deluge so i have more synth voices so theres that.
If you’re not a musician and just like launching clips then the Circuit is perfect for you. Ableton was primarily designed for DJ’s. Now it incorporates functionality for musicians who can actually play. However, the circuit will not improve musical technique or theory. It’s a launchpad. But a very good one.
@@cds8137 Nah, I had the launchpad and it's way more different. The Circuit is mainly a sequencer while the launchpad is made to control ableton (launch clips, play some instruments, but not for sequencing).
just to correct you quickly, i think you screwed up video editing when you pulled out the circuit, and started talking about the mc101. just a confusing honest mistake i noticed :)
It sounds like an interesting choice. I’m looking at it myself. It will be a steep learning curve from the demo and tutorial videos I’ve seen. Worth trying.
Yeah I'm not sure. I really hated programming assembly code and this seems like the musical equivalent so I'll stick to learning oldschool sequencer + voices approach for now since I'd like to go modular some day. Im going to recommend this to all my friends in it tho. Pretty sure they'd really click with it. Also sending midi messages must be a fucking bliss with that thing since you can just type them out in a seperate track. God damnit Im already talking myself into it.
@@LucIndustries ha ha I am a programme director for S4 Hana projects, the last thing I want in music, is to programme. Tracker sounds great but instruments should be intuitive. I’m a keys guy but have an Akai Force. It is inspirational and a good hub. I have a MODX , Wavestate, Minilogue xd and Virus Ti polar that I hook up to it. It has cv for modular too. MPC One is next on my list, and Elektron Digitakt or Digitone....Try Elektron Model series or Roland TR6S?
I chose the Akai MCP One as it was very versatile and it's a great sequencer and sampler. I'd say it's downside would be the built in soft synths which are functional but nothing to shout about. I'm also looking at the Roland VERSElab MV-1 or a MC101 to be a companion to the MPC adding a ton of synth/realistic sounds. Latest track recorded/mixed on MCP One - EXODUS th-cam.com/video/gitlV1h086Y/w-d-xo.html real guitars, basses, analogue synth and vocals.
4:18 I was very tempted to get me a Teenage Engineering OPZ....BUT I have absolutely no interest in nor use for the video/lighting/3d graphics related functionality. So I'd be paying >£500 to use less than half of the machine. Also I've heard anecdotes of TE having poor customer support.
the video and lighting thing is a very very small part of the opz.... ( i literally forgot my OPZ had it until i read your comment) no other pocket sized device has 8 tracks, supports USB midi keyboards, can sequence xternal midi gear, and sample flip.
Once I heard the music these groove boxes can make, it became much more appealing to me. Most of it sounds like the techno beats I have in my CD collection. But the "low-fi 80's" music is way off. Not even close to being accurate.
Oof. I'm sure you'll enjoy it as long as it's in the ballpark of what you're looking for, and you take the time to learn it inside and out. Grooveboxes have gotten really good in the past few years.
The best in hi fidelity sound, is the SP16 (this is club ready out of the box) and Akai Force (any of the modern Akai boxes actually). I have the Digitakt and Octarack, love the machines, don't love the sound fidelity. The Roland tr8s was quite awful, sound quality wise. Electribe 2 is the worst. I have an older Electribe ESX, that's so much fun, don't know how Korg could go so wrong one gen to the next.
I actually really like the Electribe, and its sound character has grown on me. But it's definitely not for everyone. I definitely want to give the Force a go in the future, a bunch of people recommended it in my previous groovebox roundup type video.
I can see why some don’t like the E2S. Editing samples is limited and can be frustrating. Once you have samples you like, everything run like the synth version. The E2S has a few tricks for live jamming, but preparing sample, I use a DAW.
I do enjoy your videos but the Circuit sounds like a toy... I had one. MC101 is a good sound engine but really needs the MC707 interface . Menu diving is counter intuitive. TR6S is more intuitive , but a drum machine. Akai MPC range and Force are in a different league, pair with Elektron.. both model and Digi range. It’s of course a matter of taste. Maschine plus is interesting but terrible I/O and basically an over priced MK3. Try Akai.
Civil engineering is more focused on infrastructure like roads, bridges, etc, rather than electronics. I have talked a bit with the folks at Novation about stuff related to this channel though, so hopefully there will be a partnership in the future.
@@GabeMillerMusic yes that could certainly help. I've been using the circuit for a while, it is very good. Mines basically a hub like you were talking about.
Jajajajaaa ..no hay que salirse de los fundamentos de la musica a un que se este experimentando y haciendo cosas nuevas...a enterarse bien de las cositas..bien animo con todas las cosas y vayamos todos con aalegrias...
I'd just pick something and learn it! Use some of the criteria I discussed in the video, then pick something that seems like it ticks a decent number of boxes for you. Portable gear has gotten good, so any of these devices will serve you well if you learn them and lean into their strengths.
Not sure if it’s your mic or preamp.... or simply just your voice but there “s” are SHARP! like.... they HURT sharp and my volume is only at 40% ears🤕 👂🏾
It's become one of my top recommendations, it's a really capable device! Plus, my #1 advice would be to commit to something and learn it. You can always get something else later.
@@GabeMillerMusic Good news, you didn't change my mind. The MC-101 really feels like the one I want. I will be getting a bonus in January and I feel like it's all going to go on that.
This video should instead be titled: "How to Choose the Best Groovebox Gabe Has in his Possession", not "How to Choose the Best Groovebox" . You're giving people a choice of 5 basically, but they're not the only ones by far, not to mention often the style you write in could be what dictates you pick a particular groovebox, (Ciruit/Trax is a TripHop/DNB magnet while Mc-101 is more versatile, and great for progressive Ambient) as well as how important the ability to import samples is for you, how well you fare without having a comprehensive LCD screen (a total dealbreaker for some people)... This video should be about 40-55 minutes long to cover more gear, composition styles, and differences in UI.
I only used the grooveboxes I mentioned in the video as examples, it's not meant to be a comprehensive list. A 55 minute video seems like overkill for someone who's already overwhelmed by choice. Ideally this at least helps people narrow it down.
Let me guess... Novation Circuit!!
Not necessarily, but it's definitely one of my favorites.
I read your comment before the video started, saw his face and was like: "100%"
Wha is Really then?
@@rowendonovan9105 lol is this the latest incarnation of "loose weight quick i did it too with: shadylinksincdotcom"?
Shout out to engineers who make music. I was a plumbing/mech engineer but now in construction tech. Just bought a Maschine Plus. I have never taken to the Maschine fully until now, it makes so much more sense to me standalone.
I’m a huge fan of the Akai MPC One. Having learned how to use DAWs first, the workflow came pretty naturally with it, and it’s CRAZY powerful!
Yeah that's definitely one I want to try. Akai seems to be killing it with the standalone stuff from what I've seen.
@@GabeMillerMusic lol they always have
I got into making house and techno beats on a Korg Electribe over two years ago. When the lockdowns started this year I got myself a Maschine MK3 and I absolutely love it! Maschine is really great for people who like sketching tracks on hardware and then mastering or refining sounds in a DAW.
Totally. The non-standalone Maschine stuff is a great hybrid setup... It still eliminates a decent chunk of staring at the screen, correct?
I would say Circuit it's the one I've had most fun with, plus simple enough for my 7 year old daughter to learn.
Totally, it's one of the better beginner ones, with enough depth to grow into.
I'm always on the hunt for the best groovebox... none of the ones I've tried do everything right, but the Circuit has definitely been the most fun for me to use. Really appreciate you going into all the details about the pros and cons of each.
Love the track demos, too. Just goes to show that, with a few exceptions, you can make almost any kind of electronic music on any kind of hardware!
100% agreed. I've had a ton of fun with the Circuit, but grooveboxes in general have gotten really good. Learning one inside and out is the move, and you're living proof of that.
Agreed, really useful info. Thanks!
It's almost sad the original Electribe range has been out of production for so long. Each gen 1 box runs for like 150-200 usd and gives you a suprising amount of value. Not to mention the X line, which literally had tube drivers in them
I dont understand why they didnt make more like the electribe x.
That box made so much sense for playing live at parties. A synth/sampler, a drum machine, a preamp and an effects chain and a bunch of handy live features(like that beat repeat thing). I cant wrap my head around why they didnt reissue that
@@LucIndustries Korg is..... Korg....... they kinda just do their own thing and sometimes make really nice stuff but refuse to update it and then just keep doing their own thing.
@@LucIndustries they did have a small reissue several years ago to incorporate sd storage as opposed to the previous smart media card.
I've had every version of the electribe and the esx was amazing the newest were crap though
The X line is the best imo. Mainly because of the 8 bar loop capability and the independent fx.
I'm also an engineer looking to get away from computer screens because of my day job, so I appreciate this video more than you know
I’d be interested in seeing your take on the Deluge.
With so many awesome options to choose from, this is a good overview discussion. Nothing replaces getting your hands on one and forcing yourself to dive deep until you master it. This is the best way to determine what your own particular priorities are, and equips you to better know which NEXT groovebox to get. Did I mention I have three already..... lol Help. No really I am okay.
Love your videos. I think you should get your hands on a second-hand Electribe EMX-1. (The one with the tubes). It's an amazing groovebox and very, very different from everything else, both in regard of sound and user interface.
I definitely want to give it a go at some point! I'm nearly through the list of the most highly requested modern grooveboxes, so once I've finished that, I'll hopefully have some time to throw at some more retro stuff.
You say that the Electribes are gridlocked. However, I believe you can have different swing and quantize-scales per pad/voice. The Elektron Model Cycles also allows you to have different quantize settings for each of the six tracks. Synth-only grooveboxes such as the Circuit Monostation or Sonicware's Liven 8bit warps are gridlocked but you can change the grid so that a given pattern plays in triplets or whatnot.The Volcas are gridlocked and the earliest models don't even have swing. That said, standalone sequencers such as Arturia's Beatstep/Keystep Pro or Korg's SQ64 allow you to get round that.
Had the mpcx since 2018. My fav groovebox
You should mention some older gear as well such as some of the older Roland MC’s or electribes. Yamaha rs7000 and rm1x are worth a mention too
too complicated to use in comparison to todays standards
Answered all my questions! I’ve just been using an iPad hooked up to a reverb pedal for a few months now, and getting ready for a groove box.
Only problem is I ordered a deluge like an hour before seeing this, lol.
The Deluge looks like an absolutely fantastic option for both sample stuff and synthesis, plus seemingly infinite layers. I've not used one myself, but I'd say you made a great choice. And regardless, as long as you pick something and commit to learning it inside and out, you'll do well
Could you show us some video, how you are working? Thanks
I just ordered an mc 101 an hour ago
@@lavender.b0y926 Thomann? Gear4Music? 😃
@@AlekseiDroganov zzounds
Which one of these things lets you sequence hardware synths along with drums?
The Novation Circuit seems to be no longer available and the remaining stocks are being sold off. Has anyone heard anything about a MK II version?
it's more likely to be the double whammy of Covid - more people buying them as they find themselves at home with nothing to do plus fewer being made due to difficulties keeping factories socially distanced and Covid safe. then again, it's been out for 5 years so maybe an upgrade is on the horizon, who knows.
Buy a Yamaha rm1x
Probably Covid shortages. Almost all these manufacturers are Japanese or Chinese, and have been hit hard
Man I came across the RM1x recently and was like “Yamaha were doing this 20 years ago?!” Why have they stopped?
@@GraemeMarkNI computers I reckon. Luckily grooveboxes are making a comeback hopefully we’ll see one soon
Im going for the , Mc 101 after whats been a load of deliberation. Thanks!
I loved the Circuit when it released but I always felt frustrated of the limited drum features. I bought the MC101 for the drums and even if the workflow is much more difficult on the MC101 than on the Circuit, I won't ever go back. The MC101 is a beast of sounds and features. The only limitation is the 4 tracks only but if that is a major flow for anyone, the MC707 is the answer. (I own the Circuit, the Circuit Monostation, the MC101 and the MC707. My go to all time favorite is the MC101 for its sounds and portability.)
Hi Gabe! I'm so glad I found this channel! I am trying to find the perfect drum machine for live performances. So far I am interested in the Novation Circuit and the Roland MC-101. However, as much as I love EDM, I don't organically compose that kind of style. Therefore, I am wondering if these drum machines are compatible for various genres and musical tastes? Also, I am looking for something very hands on. For instance, I use my Boss 505 loop station, I play and sing by my keyboard and guitar and I just want a simple device where I can push pads and create a quick beat to have behind my instrumental sounds and voice. Can this be accomplished with the Novation/Roland 101? Thanks!
I'm curious about this as well. Great question!
I personally love using my circuit for my jazz fusion music, I can create great synth tracks that also have room for organic instruments to mesh with jt
Did you make a decision?
I don't think there's a more immediate device than Novation's circuit/tracks/Rythm.
The MC101 is a much more complex device. But obviously much more powerful. Obviously once you learn it's workflow you will become very proficient using it.
The thing Novation's devices have is their surface simplicity. It's basically all laid out on the surface.
The MC101 will have you doing a bit of menu searching for it's many more functions.
Hey man! Love your stuff! And I decided to go for the Circuit 👍
The main thing I'm looking for in new equipment is a new way of interaction.
Great video. If they made a groove box that also did full-length audio track recording and editing, it would be perfect for me. But probably the next closest thing would be a multi-track recorder with midi and a groove box synced together. Second problem: nobody makes a proper multitrack recording station with midi any more (System 12 doesn't count- it has no track bounce function).
All that said, if I had an older DP-01 or DP-02 with midi, and an MC-101, there isn't much I couldn't do with that combo.
Suggest saving your pennies and getting an Akai Force because it covers everything from groovebox to stand-alone DAW... 💥💯
meh..? I'm going to get a Circuit and park it next to my Gaia, and probably be done for a long time.
Great video, Kudos! I’m a hobbyist in the market for a groovebox, to make Skinny Puppy-like soundscapes [without the “singing”], on the cheap. I don’t care for beats. Don’t care for/or understand DAW. Just want to have fun making some harsh-y sounds with next to no beats. Been gathering info, and I think I’m down to: the Roland mc-303 or the Novation circuit, as they are both ‘round the same price range in the second hand market. But, the 303 might be too limited [then again musically, so am I…] and the learning curve for the Novation circuit seems awfully steep, for an old fart like me. What do you think or suggest? I’d appreciate any insight. Thank you kindly
The AKAI force is amazing, but there is some menu diving. It is a bit higher priced, but I got one new for $800 with a bit of patience and watching the market.
It is a full DAW in a box, akin to Ableton, but the workflow can be a bit clunky in exchange for an amazing amount of power and control. I like to use it as a sequencer to drive the midi inputs on a number of analog synths at the same time, and is a damn good drum machine/sampler. I really like it as a step away from ableton over to an analog workflow.
It's definitely one I'd like to try eventually, it looks dope from what I've seen.
That 'hobby' aspect of being away from the computer is exactly the same reason I looked to the OPZ and other groove boxes to make music. Great video and thank you for the content! Question? Would you ever want to produce content in 360 video format?
Thanks for inspiration. Absolutely perfect and professionally made guide for me!!!
After only a few hours with the MC-101, I want to sell my Electribe Sampler 2. (which I swore I'd stand by forever)
I came out of this video more confused than I did coming in. So many things to consider.
i think i'm still going to go with MC101 though the dirtiness of the Novation Circuit really appeals to me too. I'm thinking if I really have at the Zencore stuff and make some custom patches I might be able to find something dirtier/more lofi.
Hi Gabe, I know this is an old video but hoping you sss this. I’m new to all this and toyed around with a Motif back in like 2004. I don’t play any instruments but have alot of Melodies in my head. Trying to figure out the best way to get this into a groove. What’s the most user friendly as well as provide you with the ability to maybe compensate for my lack of playing anything? Groove box? Keyboard? I want something that I can just use as hardware for now. Versatile that could do dance music but also pop. My Melodies are simple pop melodies but I think catchy idk.
Yeah novation circuit looks nice for drum and bass but MC 101 I think its the best. Very clean sounding as on drum and bass lot of distortion its used. Others finish by saturate.
Great presentation as usual, with one small concern: I have no idea what 'flipping samples' means, even after looking at some articles that use the term - does is it mean beat slicing? Replacing samples in a sliced beat?
Listen to some J Dilla or old Kanye West, its a staple of hip hop.
Would you consider the SP 404 Mk2 a groove box?
Would you recommend getting an Electribe for making drum’n’bass? I kind of fell in love with that box because of the synthwave tracks you’ve made with it, but forced quantization might be a dealbreaker for that. I like it when beats ar a bit “off”.
Electribe is great for dnb.
Just starting to really get into the gloveboxes. Glad to see that the Circuit is on your list of favs because that is the one that I am starting with (i am a terrible Novation fanboy) I did like your MPC One Blew My Mind edit. You recommended it as not being a good choice for beginners. What do you recommend? Love the one finger chords being a bass player not a keyboard player. Anything I can switch between loops with a midi foot pedal is great. Hope that makes sense.
nice vid Gabe, as always. I am looking for a groovebox where I can program melodies (lead/bass) controlling the size of the notes (wholes,1/2 1/4 etc), and visulaize it as a kind of piano roll or some sort of it, I have in my short list the deluge and the polyend tracker. Is there any other option that is not just a sequencer?, maybe the maschine +, but the size look biger than dely and polyend tracker
i think the OPZ gets a bad rap. The unit itself is wildly powerful. No other device that can fit in my pocket (that i know of) can sample flip, supports USB midi keyboards and controllers, has 8 tracks and so much automation and randomization and jamability AND can sequence external midi gear (with the op-lab module).
The device really only falls short because the physical unit itself isn't robust and feels very toy like in your hand. But as a mobile DAW/groovebox i don't think there's anything smaller or more powerful that i've seen.
Yeah it's definitely underrated. I haven't had a chance to use it myself, but I've seen it used to make some fantastic music.
I have a question. I am singer and I want to start making songs easily and quickly. I dont know how to play any instruments but I still want to make music. My boyfriend is a music producer and makes his own music, he said I could get some plug ins like the Scaler 2 and some other different kinds that effect tone. Scaler is like $50 and one of the other ones he has that he says is good is like $120. To me making a melody through one plug in, then using another plug in, then another, then putting them all into one place seems complicated. So he recently recommended getting a Circuit because its simple and battery powered. I have been watching a lot of videos (specifically of Gabe's) and I am almost sold but I am still not sure if it would be the right fit for what I want to do. I really want to make a softer kind of music (kind of like Billie Eillish or Clario), I dont want to make anything very electric sounding. My boyfriend says with the Circuit I can make the sound I want and then put it into Adobe Audition and then record my voice and put it all together. It seems a lot of live DJs and electronic musicians use the Circuit but can anyone give me their opinion on whether or not the Circuit would be a good fit for someone like me?
Circuit all day 😭. ❤️
Excellent overview!
Hey Gabe! I watch a lot of your videos, just wanted to say thank you!!
Such a help. I am so new to this.
Thanks, very helpful, no bull.
S2400👌🏻Only one to rule them all!!!!
I like your videos man, nicely made.
Synth musicians what gear do you all pair with your groove boxes
Real talk
The Polyend Tracker
A weird bland between tactility and, well, a tracker. Apparently a great one as well.
Really appreciate you. Thank you!
I've got the Model:Cycles and it works for ambient music, but I wondered if there was anything better, DAWless or semi-dawless?
One year ago I owned a po-33 pocket operator and I really liked it. Do you recommend something like this one but more advanced ? I was thinking about the sp404 but don't know if it's good for my usage (dawless production).
If you like the PO-33, I think the Novation Circuit Rhythm would actual be perfect for you, in many ways it's like a scaled up version of the PO. I've had great luck using it for DAWless production and jamming as well, and have done quite a few videos showing that process.
@@GabeMillerMusic I see. I'm gonna check what's the difference between the rhythm, the tracks and the "normal" circuit. Thank you for your answer !
Thanks for review
Good video covering your experience with groove boxes. I'd pick up an MC101 today if they made a PC editor for it as I'm not a preset with light tweaks kind of guy, but am actually looking for some specific kind of supersaw sounds that I'd like to program from scratch. I know circuit has an offline editor, and I think it would made a great scratch pad, but the sound of it isn't quite what I'm used to (Ableton / Serum). If Roland releases that editor or Novation comes out with a mk2 circuit with a slightly more "polished" sound engine, I'm sold.
The Akai Force I bought but ultimately returned due to firmware issues and Akai support sucking, but it was *almost* a large but stand-alone Ableton.
As far as I know, Roland did release a more in-depth Zencore patch editor recently-ish. I haven't had a chance to give it a go yet, but it's worth a look.
What kind of bugs did you have with the Force? I'm thinking about giving one a go eventually.
@@GabeMillerMusic I'll have to look into that again. Everything I've read said editing on the 707 is full featured (with lots of menus), and the 101 is a preset machine with a few tweakable parameters. The Force was on 3.04 and 3.04 beta when I had it not too long ago. 3.04 didn't include an arranger and although the beta did include an arranger, it broke the Force's ability to act as an Ableton controller. It is my understanding that they are now out of beta, and maybe those things are fixed? It is an amazing piece for the money when you think about it as a kind of touch screen computer, DAW, audio interface, pad controller, sound library, etc.. I recommended it to a friend who is didn't love trying to write music in logic, and she loves it. Akai's support for firmware seems outrageously slow, like year gaps in some cases, but admittedly steady. I'm very invested in Ableton, so whatever hardware I buy needs to play well and not slow me down compared to just using a computer.
@@GabeMillerMusic I got the bottom of the MC101 situation. For "as low as" $3 per month or $30 per year, Roland will give you a plug-in that doubles as an editor. This plug-in let's you transfer presets, and assign the 4x controls the preset gives you access to. The MC101 can play back any zencore preset, but none of the modelling stuff. IMO that is rough. Seems like Roland is taking a page from Adobe's book and many people I know don't love the endless subscription model. $3 per month isn't bad if you have the discipline to stop it at some point, I guess after you build up you preset library, but everytime inspiration strikes and you want to make a new sound, it's $3 that month to do it. I dunno if that is worth it for my use case, or anyone's really, unless you are already invested in the roland system.
@@GabeMillerMusic IMO, making a video on the MC101 editor situation might make for a good video on your channel.
Yeah it's on my long list of video topics to get to!
Best groove box to fit into a live band and work with a live drummer seamlessly e.g. easy to send cue click separately?
I'm continually and repeatedly intrigued that you don't look at the Synthstrom Audio Deluge. Why?
The quick answer is time. I work a full time job as an engineer, and I'm trying to have some semblance of a social life while pumping out three videos a week and finding time to make music (which feeds the videos). Plus, I want to give any new gear I try the attention it deserves and really learn how it works before I put an opinion out there. Also, I have to choose new gear based on a combination of what I find interesting at the moment and what my audience has been asking for. The Deluge is on the list, but it's a really long list and I've got a backlog to work through.
@@GabeMillerMusic Thanks for your reply. Replies from creators are very rare these days, so your explanation is hugely appreciated!
Whichever one has realistic sounding drums is my winner.
Are there any group boxes out there that work well with guitarists? I play guitar and I don’t want to use a DAW because I use computers all day. The thought of connecting my guitar to a computer just does not really appeal to me. Anything out there for guys like me?
I've had a decent experience with connecting an electric guitar to my MPC One (it even has a tuner)... That'll pop up in a video eventually. The Roland MC-707 miiiiiight work too.
I make indie pop kinda music and used to play everything live off my laptop but wanna move away from that. I’ve tried the sp 404 and the electribe AND programming everything long form with the tr-08 but now I’m thinking about grabbing an mc101. Anyone else using a groove box for this sort of thing and have experience?
Sold my Deluge for a MC-101 and a Circuit ;-)
Absolute madlad
I'm thinking of selling my OP-1 for a Deluge
3:41 I've decided to use Xmas to give my Model Cycles a second chance. The menu-diving (LFO-settings/Retrigger-settings/Project-management/etc) is an accessibility nightmare. One other problem I have is the game-style "save point" pattern writing workflow. Whereas most other gear requires the user to save changes to a pattern as they go along, the EMC automatically saves any changes made to a pattern and the EMC user needs to create undo savepoints. As a non-Gamer, that seems backwards to me.
Does the circuit tracks have built in sounds, or is it just samples?
It has two synth tracks and four sample tracks. Check out the dedicated review I did last year if you want to learn more!
Great video btw.
electribe has groove and swing settings to move off the grid. not ideal though.
i want to do dubstep like xtrullor or nightkilla and apparently the akai mpc live and 2500 are the best, can i get some reccomendations?
Any opinions on the Oragenelle M?
I wish I didn't hate how the novation circuit synths sound
Circuit ultimately is the toy groove box... not saying it is a toy.. but the most fun to play with.... With the exception of the Tenori..
Want one for live performance
5:51 what is that black device on the left?
Soooo, for a beginner that uses ableton live as his main DAW, the best option is the circuit?
I'm between the electribe or circuit. In your opinion, which would be better for someone who wants groveboxes for dj sets/lives?
(And, yeah, if it's possible, that doesn't require me to sell my left lung, please)
Great video man, you really help and listen the community.
Personally, I'd say that the Circuit is better for live sets, *especially* if you're used to Ableton and its clip structure.
I really like the TR-8S as it allows you to go pretty deep with sound desing but there are some serious limitations when trying to automate for complete tracks.
Its a drum machine but since the 2.0 update it is basically a groovebox light imho.
Check out the video "tr-8s the perfect techno machine" for some performance ideas.
I went with it as a first device because you learn a lot about rythms and sound by locking yourself into that pattern but its not for everyone. Also im currently saving up for a deluge so i have more synth voices so theres that.
Also if you use ableton almost everything with midi over usb should be fine.
If you’re not a musician and just like launching clips then the Circuit is perfect for you. Ableton was primarily designed for DJ’s. Now it incorporates functionality for musicians who can actually play. However, the circuit will not improve musical technique or theory. It’s a launchpad. But a very good one.
@@cds8137 Nah, I had the launchpad and it's way more different. The Circuit is mainly a sequencer while the launchpad is made to control ableton (launch clips, play some instruments, but not for sequencing).
What's best for edm?
just to correct you quickly, i think you screwed up video editing when you pulled out the circuit, and started talking about the mc101. just a confusing honest mistake i noticed :)
TL; DW: a pair of Electribes (no matter 1's or 2's) or one Force. Thankyou yourwelcome.
Друг,спасибо за уроки.Без них я бы не разобрался в mc 101!
Привет) приятно видеть русскоговорящих здесь 😜
Polyend Tracker seems the way forward
The more i see it the more I like it so I really hope those gearfluencers stop showing it to me...
It sounds like an interesting choice. I’m looking at it myself. It will be a steep learning curve from the demo and tutorial videos I’ve seen. Worth trying.
Yeah I'm not sure. I really hated programming assembly code and this seems like the musical equivalent so I'll stick to learning oldschool sequencer + voices approach for now since I'd like to go modular some day.
Im going to recommend this to all my friends in it tho. Pretty sure they'd really click with it.
Also sending midi messages must be a fucking bliss with that thing since you can just type them out in a seperate track. God damnit Im already talking myself into it.
@@LucIndustries ha ha I am a programme director for S4 Hana projects, the last thing I want in music, is to programme. Tracker sounds great but instruments should be intuitive. I’m a keys guy but have an Akai Force. It is inspirational and a good hub. I have a MODX , Wavestate, Minilogue xd and Virus Ti polar that I hook up to it. It has cv for modular too. MPC One is next on my list, and Elektron Digitakt or Digitone....Try Elektron Model series or Roland TR6S?
Korg Electribe 2 S
I chose the Akai MCP One as it was very versatile and it's a great sequencer and sampler.
I'd say it's downside would be the built in soft synths which are functional but nothing to shout about.
I'm also looking at the Roland VERSElab MV-1 or a MC101 to be a companion to the MPC adding a ton of
synth/realistic sounds.
Latest track recorded/mixed on MCP One - EXODUS th-cam.com/video/gitlV1h086Y/w-d-xo.html
real guitars, basses, analogue synth and vocals.
Well done and useful video, kid!
I reckon Gabe’s probably like 30 😅
lol I'm 23. I know I give off wildy varying vibes as to my age.
Mpc4life
4:18 I was very tempted to get me a Teenage Engineering OPZ....BUT I have absolutely no interest in nor use for the video/lighting/3d graphics related functionality. So I'd be paying >£500 to use less than half of the machine. Also I've heard anecdotes of TE having poor customer support.
the video and lighting thing is a very very small part of the opz.... ( i literally forgot my OPZ had it until i read your comment) no other pocket sized device has 8 tracks, supports USB midi keyboards, can sequence xternal midi gear, and sample flip.
Forget it, you know you want them all…
Once I heard the music these groove boxes can make, it became much more appealing to me. Most of it sounds like the techno beats I have in my CD collection. But the "low-fi 80's" music is way off. Not even close to being accurate.
i literally bought one yesterday >:(
Oof. I'm sure you'll enjoy it as long as it's in the ballpark of what you're looking for, and you take the time to learn it inside and out. Grooveboxes have gotten really good in the past few years.
The best in hi fidelity sound, is the SP16 (this is club ready out of the box) and Akai Force (any of the modern Akai boxes actually). I have the Digitakt and Octarack, love the machines, don't love the sound fidelity. The Roland tr8s was quite awful, sound quality wise. Electribe 2 is the worst. I have an older Electribe ESX, that's so much fun, don't know how Korg could go so wrong one gen to the next.
I actually really like the Electribe, and its sound character has grown on me. But it's definitely not for everyone.
I definitely want to give the Force a go in the future, a bunch of people recommended it in my previous groovebox roundup type video.
Esx is an amazing machine
I can see why some don’t like the E2S. Editing samples is limited and can be frustrating. Once you have samples you like, everything run like the synth version. The E2S has a few tricks for live jamming, but preparing sample, I use a DAW.
I do enjoy your videos but the Circuit sounds like a toy... I had one. MC101 is a good sound engine but really needs the MC707 interface . Menu diving is counter intuitive. TR6S is more intuitive , but a drum machine. Akai MPC range and Force are in a different league, pair with Elektron.. both model and Digi range. It’s of course a matter of taste. Maschine plus is interesting but terrible I/O and basically an over priced MK3. Try Akai.
I really do appreciate your videos. In my opinion Test the Akai Force vs Roland MC707 vs Maschine. The Circuit is ok. I had one but its a toy.
Deluge. Better than the OP1.
Where my SP gang at
Civil engineering? I'm surprised novation hasn't offered you a job with all the circuit videos.
Civil engineering is more focused on infrastructure like roads, bridges, etc, rather than electronics. I have talked a bit with the folks at Novation about stuff related to this channel though, so hopefully there will be a partnership in the future.
@@GabeMillerMusic yes that could certainly help. I've been using the circuit for a while, it is very good. Mines basically a hub like you were talking about.
@@GabeMillerMusic We need to start patitioning Novation to have you do instructional videos. Who do we need to contact?
Buy a deluge. Job done.
Jajajajaaa ..no hay que salirse de los fundamentos de la musica a un que se este experimentando y haciendo cosas nuevas...a enterarse bien de las cositas..bien animo con todas las cosas y vayamos todos con aalegrias...
I am overwhelmed - oh brother -- too much gear - too many groovebox options :(
I'd just pick something and learn it! Use some of the criteria I discussed in the video, then pick something that seems like it ticks a decent number of boxes for you. Portable gear has gotten good, so any of these devices will serve you well if you learn them and lean into their strengths.
Just pick up op-1 =)
Mpc one, don’t lie to them
Not sure if it’s your mic or preamp.... or simply just your voice but there “s” are SHARP! like.... they HURT sharp and my volume is only at 40% ears🤕 👂🏾
Writing this before watching the video: I am saving to by an MC-101, don't you go and change my mind!
It's become one of my top recommendations, it's a really capable device! Plus, my #1 advice would be to commit to something and learn it. You can always get something else later.
@@GabeMillerMusic Good news, you didn't change my mind. The MC-101 really feels like the one I want. I will be getting a bonus in January and I feel like it's all going to go on that.
#Waldorf ! send this man Iridium X) & to me plz ;)
Who are you callin' "Oldhead"?
Poor deluge
This video should instead be titled: "How to Choose the Best Groovebox Gabe Has in his Possession", not "How to Choose the Best Groovebox" . You're giving people a choice of 5 basically, but they're not the only ones by far, not to mention often the style you write in could be what dictates you pick a particular groovebox, (Ciruit/Trax is a TripHop/DNB magnet while Mc-101 is more versatile, and great for progressive Ambient) as well as how important the ability to import samples is for you, how well you fare without having a comprehensive LCD screen (a total dealbreaker for some people)... This video should be about 40-55 minutes long to cover more gear, composition styles, and differences in UI.
I only used the grooveboxes I mentioned in the video as examples, it's not meant to be a comprehensive list. A 55 minute video seems like overkill for someone who's already overwhelmed by choice. Ideally this at least helps people narrow it down.