The Search for the Best Groovebox Continues…
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
- The dubiously long-awaited roundup of all the grooveboxes and workstations I've tried since the last one.
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00:00 Intro
00:46 Elektron Digitakt
01:52 Polyend Tracker
03:10 Dirtywave M8
04:28 Akai Force
07:57 Roland SP-404 MKII
10:09 Elektron Syntakt
12:01 Maschine MK3
15:45 Roland MC-101
17:09 The Future of the Quest for the Best Groovebox
21:01 Outro
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For those of you asking about the MC-707, MPC One, etc, you can check out the previous video in this series:
th-cam.com/video/5N-Kb5lu3GU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=EjF7qkxPx4RBO8jz
You need to give the Deluge a retrofit treatment, believe me you will love it!
isnt the deluge NON velocity sensitive in its pads tho?
Yep, you can't have everything! :(
I just got a second hand nanoKEY Studio which is great for pocket (almost) velocity sensitivity and the pads are awesome for mapping to expressive CCs. MPD-219 and a miniLAB 3 on desktop duties.
@@d3tuned378 technically yes. however with the beta firmware (cuz deluge is open source now) theres a mode that displays 8 colored drum pads across the display with 16 velocity settings for each. not a perfect solution but hey the deluge supports velocity you just need a controller. and with how deluge does things theyll probably make a velocity retrofit too lol.
At last! You have the Deluge in your hands. There is no rush, at least we know that we will be able to have your opinion about this little gadget, it really is what you were missing.
Deluge! Yay! Some quick tips that I would give myself if I would start learning the device now:
1) Take some time right at the start of your Deluge journey to just create some kit presets that have the drum sounds you want to use.
2) Consider grabbing some synth presets for Deluge online, the default patches are not that great for how good the device can sound. Boards of Deluge presets are excellent, but perhaps not your style.
3) Mess around with resampling and sample slicing early on. Resampling is THE method for getting the most out of your CPU, layering sounds and baking FX into a sample. It is a core skill if you want to export your tracks. Slicing is just plain fun and can get you some inspiring results.
4) The sidechain parameter is an awesome tool that has many uses. There are some pretty detailed settings you can get into for getting that perfect pumping in your tracks.
5) There are three different Low Pass Filters types that you can specify for everything individually, including the main mix. The drive filter type on the main mix is a good trick for mixing with a bit of saturation.
6) Whenever you're loading or saving a song, synth or kit, remember that you can use the pads as a QWERTY keyboard and quickly type in a name of a preset, song or sample. Just make sure you have the 3.0 overlay or panel, so you know which button is which key.
Don't forget OPEN-SOURCE POWER REIGNS SUPREME
The answer, for me, was the Deluge. I really hope you like it as much as I do.
i was about to tag him asking to try out the deluge, hopefully he get's the chance to try it, from what i've heard, it's like a novation circuit but without all the limitations and issues it has
I've been at him on a few occasions in regards to Synthstrom
's Deluge, for some strange reason or 'Bias' (Roland,Akai, Novation, Elektron, Polyend, Dirtywav, Maschine).. he just wont wont touch it!!..,even though he has the unit at hand?,strange don't you think??@@boymatmat
Ecstatically happy Deluge owner here, wouldn’t dream of using anything else 😊
It’s 100 percent the deluge. Poly Synth engines, fm, wave table, sampler with slicer, drum machine, multi sampler, unlimited audio length looper, midi workstation, unlimited tracks, simple memory card, song mode, built in fx, battery powered, line in etc etc plus so much coming with open source.
I was so deeply disappointed by not being able to use the full 128 pad grid for direct sampling and live triggering in kit mode that I never managed to fall in love with the Deluge. Several times I started building tracks on it and every time I rage quit out of sheer disappointment at not being able to do the most obvious thing it should be capable of. 8 vertical pads, what nonsense is that when there's a huge grid right there just waiting to be implemented? I would instinctively push the "keyboard" button while in kit mode and it would just blink mockingly at me and I'd be like...ok, back on the shelf you go, you boring ass device.
Its been awesome watching your musical journey, and your Circuit demo's and tutorials I still reference to this day. I think as people evolve their needs change and I'm sure yours has as well. As long as music is an escape and not a chore, you will find your perfect flow and maybe the perfect device.
just discovered your channel last week and my circuit tracks is arriving later today lol, really enjoy your content and perspective/advice!!
Thanks for the video!
Hesitated for about a year, but now waiting for my Polyend Play to arrive.
Had Maschine mk2, Electribe sampler 2 and MPC1000 in the past, but this one looks so promising for glitch-hop and maybe breakcore at some point.
I appreciate the honesty! It actually makes it more informative when you say where your gap of knowledge, interests lie. Much appreciated 🤘🏽
Really appreciate you taking the time to lay out your thoughts and considerations about these devices. You communicate clearly and it's a pleasure to listen to your line of thinking and analysis. As for the gear - as you can see from the comments folks have their favorites and can't resist declaring "The One" :) It's all about having fun in my book and learning how to be creative after decades of merely being an "engineer" ;)
As much as I love my line of work, and think it does involve a lot of creative problem solving, I gotta keep the music side of my brain happy.
You, Ziv and Jeremy from Red Means are my internet music happy place. You do whatever the hell you want. Presonally, I'm along for the ride. Devices are neat and all but it's your insight is why I am subbed and continue to watch. I think I'd be most interested in your Push 3 review due to the MSE. It seems fully capable of riding the line between synth engine and sample based.
One of your best videos. Thank you for the content. I’ve watched for years your videos get more and more professional. I value and agree with you reviews. Thank you again
Really happy to see you finally have yourself a Deluge, but I completely understand the time involved in learning it. I hope you're able to gel with it over time! Shameless self plug - I've got a full video manual on my channel that will help you learn it inside out, but of course I'm not the only one, there's tonnes of great resources out there. Hopefully this proves useful to you. I haven't even tried any of the open source stuff yet, so I kind of feel like I'm in the same boat again 😅
Great to see you here! Once I dig into the Deluge, I am fully planning to watch through your series. I very briefly started, and right as that happened, I got approved to take the final two tests I need to take for my professional certification, starting the ticking clock on studying. But once that's all out of the way, and I have more time and focus to devote, your series will be my go-to.
@@GabeMillerMusic congratulations man, that's awesome! Hope you go well with the test :) Let me know if you get any questions about the Deluge when you get up and running! I've been a big fan of your channel for years, so it's an honour to be giving something back in a way :) Cheers
The quest that never ends haha 😅
Really been enjoying the journey
Great job Gabe. I appreciate the effort you put into these reviews. It really helps me out.
It’s so wild, you’re 100% the best groovebox synthtuber, your specific interest in them means that you’re evaluating them for what people actually buy them for, which is standalone or mostly standalone playing and composing. However, our tastes are the complete opposite. I don’t like synth wave or monstercat-core bass music at all, I loved the Tracker and SP404mk2 (especially the SP404mk2), and didn’t jive with the m8 or circuit tracks. But you’re so good at reviewing and so thorough, I watch every one of your videos straight through. That’s the mark of a good gear TH-camr, I think.
Thanks so much!
I LOVE IT! For me, the portable “one machine” that I can carry anywhere is still my Roland MC-101 too! If I need a little more and can carry a little more, then that is the VerseLab-MV1. Sometimes both. Admittedly, I don’t do sampling much. I’m more into the synth engine. Usually I carry the MC-101 and a small MIDI keyboard. For recording, I carry the BOSS Micro BR 80. I will also sometimes carry my Volca Keys and all 4 of the Roland Aira compact series (S-1, T-8, J-6, and E-4) my Korg NTS-1 and the MC-101 since they all fit in my huge laptop bag. That way I can have one bag to carry but have a lot of options to keep me entertained. 😂
Great video Gabe - I think my own groovebox checklist aligns fairly close to yours. I remember a video you did a while ago about "low friction" devices - for me that's key. I have my professional career taking most of my hours, so when it comes to music, I want low friction, flexibility and fast workflow.
I'm glad to see you have a Deluge - it definitely does require time invested to learn it. The community firmware (Deluge firmware is now open source!) is currently in Beta, and looks phenomenal... so the Deluge has a good future ahead!
Also glad to see the M8. The workflow on this is incredible!
The 1010music Blackbox is also something to consider. For years it's the center piece of my creative process with daily changing other gear around it. It's very portable, can sequence external stuff, has a ableton like clip based workflow, samples in mono, stereo and multisamples. It plays samples as tempo synced loops, as polyphonic instruments, as granular material, as sliced fragments. It's got a song mode, I could go on for some time...
Do you have a suggestion of videos to watch to get into the Blackbox workflows? I got one but almost immediately felt like it wasn't for me and am considering selling.
Every other sequencing-captable device I have I've immediately made some (bad) tracks with, but with the Blackbox... zero.
@@nsiivolaI can't recommend vids but I can explain what I do. Usually I take the BB and connect one piece of other gear and some pedals. Then I collect loop material of various kinds and lengths using record to play mode. I often switch gear during the process and collect more loops and samples. When I've got enough raw material I start working out sequences to trigger clips, melodic lines and percussion. Finally I use song mode to assemble the clips and sequences created in the previous step into an arrangement. That's the overall process. But for the moment I'm often fine with just creating some loops. When I then revisit the project later I'm often astounded by the material that I find and do not remember how I created it. Usually it inspires a direction to build upon it and continue the process. I avoid using a computer at all costs and this works for me.
@@minimal3734 very interesting, thank you!
Great take on the force. I personally use the force daily and its my daily driver. it really gets the job done. minus portability its really a phenomenon of a machine.
Force does it all!
I can't wait to see what you think about the Deluge. It is pretty amazing. It does so much and very fun to use once you take the time to learn how to use it. I also have the MC-101 and take it with me when I travel just because it does so much and is so light.
Your thoughts have always been insightful enjoyed your content for years now haha.
Id like to see you do videos on using boxes together. Like what's are so groove boxes that work well together ?
I've enjoyed pairing my digitakt with my 404mk2 lots of fun
I've had a great time pairing the Circuit Tracks and MC-101.
As someone on the very, very casual side of things, the Dirtywave M8 has been a godsend. The minimal controls and nearly pocketable size make it perfect for me, and the tracker workflow just works for me. As you noted, the inclusion of built-in synths on top of its sample playback is just absolutely wonderful.
I don’t have enough time to learn too many different pieces of gear, so having something so portable and “powerful enough” has just been wonderful. Trash80 is just amazing, and his M8 is amazing.
Absolutely!! M8 is hands down my go-to! LOVE it and the community around it.
Out of everything I own, my M8 Tracker is my fave too. Hang really used a tracker outside of LSDJ briefly, but quite like the workflow now.
I love how simple it if to apply effects compared to my MPC One for example.
Before watching the video, my thought was: "Push 3". After listening through the video, that is still where I think you might want to go next. At least I know I do. It's so funny hearing your reasoning on some of these things, because I recognize and agree with so many of your thoughts. For example, I've literally had the exact same thought about different teams working independently at Akai to put the MPC experience together! 😂However, there is a key part where you and I might have slightly different needs, and that's in the portability department. To me, it's about portability around the house, not the need to put something in a backpack because when I actually do travel for work, I just don't have time to make music because travel typically involves packed work schedules. Also, every time I've prioritized smallness over tactility (MC-101, etc), I've realized just how important the size of an instrument is to me. The M8, as capable as it might be, would never work for me because it doesn't have a single knob! Same with the Polyend Tracker Mini, great on paper, but I wouldn't love jamming with it. There's a minimum size beyond which point it gets fiddly and annoying, which is the last thing I want when trying to unleash my creativity. In my experience, sitting with the MPC Live 2 in my lap, in bed, actually felt great. Sure, it could have been a little lighter, but it was never an inconvenience.
That insight opens up new possibilities. To me, grooveboxes are mainly about that creative spark at the initial phase of the process - going from zero to a good song embryo by making music with an instrument-like experience. The rest of it is honestly quicker in the daw. What I always struggle with regardless of groovebox (and I've tried the MC-101, SP-404 mk2, MPC One+Live 2, Syntakt, Digitakt, Digitone) is that waterfall-like transition from in-groovebox to in-daw. I passionately *hate* having to export stems and move on to mixing with printed audio. That's typically when I realize that the sound I chose for that pad doesn't sit well in the mix and has to be redone. This is where the Push 3 comes in. It's standalone and battery-powered, which is super important to me (even though I just move around the house, I do move around!), it's very playable as an instrument with plenty of good knobs and buttons, it has enough tracks to get an idea going, it sounds really good and polished, and it has a quick step sequencer *and* drum pad workflow. On top of that - and this is the key differentiator from eg the Akai products - it means I no longer would have to export any stems because the transition from groovebox to daw is entirely seamless. Once in the daw, all the midi and automation data is still there, completely unchanged. You can even record a live jam (for that mandatory youtube video) and if a sound doesn't end up sitting well in the mix, or you got some knob twist slightly wrong, I can just change it in Live without invalidating the recorded jam. So yeah, I think I'll eventually get a Push 3. Just wish it wasn't so damn expensive, especially with Live 11 Suite.
PS. I might disagree with you about one more thing: that the SP-404 mk2 is "objectively good". I think what we can say is that the SP has objectively bad UI. You mentioned that maybe you would feel differently if you tried it again - I assume you most surely wouldn't. I've given it enough tries to know that I don't like that workflow, and given your very similar proclivity towards polished sound and a fast workflow, I'm pretty sure you will never like it either. My SP is going up on sale shortly to save up for the Push 3. Not sure I could ever sell the Syntakt though, I love it too much. But maybe, just maybe if I sample enough drum sounds into the Push, I might end up not needing it anymore. We'll see. Anyway, thanks for the video, it seems we're possibly groovebox soulmates. 🙈😅
I've been seeing your comments on various videos and we had a discussion about the SP404 a while back on our differing perspectives on it. I have gone back and forth on some aspects of the SP404MK2 and sort of came to the conclusion that I don't really see it as being useful for making fully developed songs. I also hate taking things from hardware to DAW haha. And I love arranging and developing ideas in Ableton. My disdain for DAWs was rooted in my incompatibility with Logic Pro. It led me to thinking "standalone" was the answer. The marketing got me.
Turns out I don't like the MPC environment and even though I love what I can sound design on the SP, it just doesn't offer what I need to take those ideas into full arrangements. So after having disagreed with you, I actually agree with a lot of your critiques of the SP at this point haha. I also agree the MPC is just much more capable, but I truly don't like its entire layout and UI.
To me the Push 3 looks like the best available hardware for "standalone" production at this time. I think the Push 3 covers the aspects that are even viable in a standalone situation while being compatible with an actual DAW by default.
@@remyvegamedia Exactly this! I remember your name but not the specifics of our discussion. But yes, the SP as a groovebox is a sad thing - as a sampler it's great, but I'm here to make music, not just sample. On its own, it's not great. And the MPC is way better, the workflow isn't as fun as it could be. But as a standalone groovebox, it's head and shoulders above the SP in my opinion. Where any of these devices fall short is in the inevitable export to the DAW, and the Push 3 solves all that by making the export (print to audio) unnecessary. After writing my long comment above, I spent 45 minutes watching a tutorial on how to make a song from start to finish on the Push 2 and I'm even more convinced now about the capabilities and the workflow. I definitely think the Push 3 is in my future and it may well be the one groovebox to rule them all for me.
@@sinewaymusic Yeah, as much as I don't mesh with the process of MPC, I won't deny anymore that it offers much more for full scale production than the SP. I still consider getting a used Live 2 to try again, but I honestly feel like the Akai/Air plugins are not top quality (mostly the piano/rhodes, which are my main instruments) and I don't sample besides one shots for drums, so that's an important aspect for me personally. And I 100% agree about the export aspect of all hardware production units!
I've spent a lot of time using my Push 2 90 degrees away from my screen, emulating the "standalone" experience and I've found that the things that aren't available directly on the Push are things I just leave for later and I end up blazing through to the next part of the idea I'm developing. Push 3 has some features that I'd love to have that add to that process. Also, the basic Ableton Piano and Rhodes are, in my opinion, much more useable. Also, I can always finish that by using my Korg Nautilus sounds in the studio for the final version, which is another case for the Push 3 integration haha.
@@remyvegamedia The thing about the MPC is that it taught me to use samples beyond just the one shot drums. Particularly, I thought it was very useful in creating background textures and those small ear candy things that could help to make a track more interesting. What made it useful is that you could immediately bake that into a song idea, as opposed to on the SP where I feel like I'm doing those textures in isolation to the real song idea that lives somewhere else. But it's probably somewhere there in between the effects and the live use of the knobs that the happy accidents of the SP might happen. It's just not for me. Regarding the MPC, what I found lackluster was the effects, particularly the Air Reverb. So yeah, the export to the daw was inevitable and ultimately that made me stop using the MPC. The Push 3 is currently the holy grail and I'm looking forward to trying it out sometime relatively soon! Just hoping they'll work out some of the early QC issues and maybe offer a bundle discount since I'll need the Suite license too. 🙈😭
@@sinewaymusic Man you're speaking my language here and it's refreshing haha.
Gabe is the God of groove boxes! I have been in a similar journey without the budget, freebees, or talent but Model Cycles and Circuit Tracks are a great fun learning experience leading up to my choice which would be the Digitone.
THANK YOU! I also was obsessed with finding the "right" groovebox. I'm still not sure which of my devices is exactly that, but I realized that I liked old school samplers the best aesthetically.
I always appreciate your videos. I love how you breakdown pros and cons based on workflow. Do whatever inspires you. While I enjoy the gear videos, I also like your creative song building stuff too. Anything I can learn from another person's production decisions is great. As for where I have landed, my main 2 devices are the MC707 and the 1010music Blackbox. I've recently decided to commit to learning better the 707 workflow and it is paying off. I finally learned how to marry the 2 devices to let the Blackbox handle all my guitar or vocal sampling and leave the 707 for the amazing tones it is good at. Being able to take sound pack tones on the go with my iPad and Zenbeats is nice (though they should fully integrate with the 101/707). All that being said, as much as I like dabbling on good iPad apps and synths, a part of me really craves an MC101. The thought of leaving the 707 as my brain/hub on my desk and carrying around the 101 as a portable version seems killer. I do have a rip cord and battery for the 707, so I can take it to the park, but it feels nowhere as portable as the 101 would. Keep up the good work at whatever pace you deem good!
Excellent video; so informative!
Just ordered my third Deluge. I wanted to buy it when the OLED came out, but Teenage announced the OP1F. So I got the Field.
But now I'm ready for it, especially with the Open Source Community Firmware which has most of the stuff I asked for as feature req.
I've been through almost exact journey as you, but there's no perfect Groovebox. The M8 is my preferred one so far, but I miss finger drumming and Live Playing.
Logic Pro on iPad is also awesome!
I have the mighty MC707. Due in part to one of your reviews. It's awesome.
Enjoyable video, Gabe. You're doing yourself a disservice though of coming this far with all of these devices and not trying out the Push 3. Ticks all of your boxes perfectly (sans size).
Once again, a cat who is wise beyond his years. Solid advice dispensed. It's never about the gear. Stay safe and do you!
I've been on the groovebox hunt since high school with the mc303. Its been a long road. I've never actually found one which I want to produce entire tracks on though. I currently use the M8 in a hybrid workflow with my DAW. I think its easily the best device for the money on the market and sounds unbelievable. Its really an amazing achievement for a single developer.
I watched a red means recording video on the m8 and the sound alone was enough to sell me
Been using MC-101 couple of days now and I love it already ❤
I’m a bit surprised you didn’t give the MV-1 more of a chance. Add a portable battery and you can get 12 hours on it, and it’s easier to arrange full songs than the MC-101.
I like your neon 80's style of showing the gear. It has that 'Tron' look to it. I think I've decided that a laptop and a cheap keyboard are the best 'groovebox' for my couch creations. I like the idea of a groovebox but in the end I find them harder to work with than just opening up the laptop and playing.
Deluge is amazing the open source has really pushed the device to the next level as well. Using the latest night build and man is it wonderful!
I still have my novation circuit. I love the fact it has a built in SPEAKER so its super portable also not very heavy.
I know your weren’t thrilled with the Verselab but I bought it after my 101 and find it’s really an amazing box that although quirky, once learned can easily make complete tracks. I use it more than I thought I would. I use my force more and my mpc a lot. It seems I have most of the same boxes as you. But I wanted to mention that imo the verselab definitely is worth a mention
Gabe, I'm adding to the crowd screaming DELUGE...then you go and fetch one out! Mate, it's a beautiful, beautiful thing and I hope you fall for it.
I use Maschine MK3 and the Maschine JAM in Ableton with Clyphx and use the DAW to automate tempo changes. It integrates well and it is fast to switch between instances and also controlling Ableton's transport and mixer.
Im so happy the deluge finally showed up. its definitely encourages an arrangement style which i love. no other device really has a good DAW style arrangement setup. it may be a bit limited in terms of the internal synth (people can get it to sound good including me, its just a bit hard to work with because the full capability is a bit hidden) but I only own one of these devices and these videos helped me pick which one I want and I can happily say that I think I picked right.
Very fair assessment and overview!
I went through most of the boxes in the video. Currently sitting on my desk is the Deluge and MC-707. And i'm leaning towards the 707. I like the Deluge sequencer, the size, internal battery, quick workflow. BUT i like to play the 707's pads and it's possibilities. Especially the synth engine and real sounding instrument sounds makes me enjoy the 707 more.
I bought the 707 mainly for the drums as a potential replacement of my TR-8S, but I do enjoy the bonus synth sounds. The 707 is a nice piece of gear.
@@user-mr1ku5iz8l wat
The TR8S isn't a total upgrade over the 707 for drums?
@@Jason75913 The TR-8S is a better drum machine IMHO. I like the included sounds more than the sounds in the 707. The TR-8S is more versatile for drums. It's possible to play synth sounds on it but that's not its forte. Once you learn how to program both it's really easy to create a beat on either one.
@@user-mr1ku5iz8l 707's strength is definitely synth, it is awesome, also as a looper or FX processor for other hardware, but the drums aren't as good or versatile as my FA-06, and loading my own drum samples into the 707 kills my samples' punch, which has annoyed me tremendously. But my new Polyend Tracker doesn't give me problems with samples at all.
But you saying that you bought an MC-707 for drums struck me as bizarre. I'm pretty sure you would regret replacing a TR8S with a 707.
@@Jason75913 Well, I was still new to the whole groovebox thing at the time. I don't have a synth background and am not very familiar with a lot of the music of the various styles the 707 could make. I had no idea really if the 707 could replace the TR-8S. I thought I would be able to do it all with the 707 and I could sell the TR-8S. I really liked the look of the 707. Keeping both worked out pretty well though.
Utilizing the Loop function on an MPC
Main page Track 01>Transpose set to 1.
Program 001>Warp samples>
Global tab>note on.
Samples tab>pad loop on.
For different drum loops, including them in the same mute group to alternate back and forth helps with the brainstorming that I would have when using a 404
Thank you, dear Gabe for the insightful overview. Some ‚entries‘ I‘d like to try one day, like the M8. You know it, the Syntakt is my favourite because of all the reasons you mentioned (I don‘t need polyphony ;) ). I aleady played complete live sets just with the Syntakt ^_^
For me out of all my kit its the Deluge at the moment, utterly stunning machine very simple to use once you understand the short cuts etc..
I use it to also multitrack sequence my Microfreak stellar for a very nice combination for sound exploration..
I actually got both novation circuits tracks and rhythm and they are just so much fun. Are they professional enough? Maybe not. But they are just so quick to dial and to interact with. I'll get a push 3 eventually i think.
I feel you about life getting in the way and creating intermittent workflow. Still I'm glad you still play with the 101 especially since the update. There is just so much you can do with it now the mind still boggles.
Really looking forward to seeing you cover the push 3
You've got all the cool gear already, now more grooves and tracks, please; you rock, man.
If you get into Push3/Ableton, that's clearly not groovebox land anymore, but whatever you want, man.
I was on the same thought with the sp-404 mkii… I walked away from it for a couple months, then recently I went into a deep dive with the 404 and have been completely smitten by it. It’s just a totally different approach to the Groovebox concept. I’ll second the MC-101 (dollar for dollar it’s the best thing on the market) I sold mine for an MC-707 upgrade because I liked it so much, but that totally loses the portability factor which admittedly I should have thought through a little more. Great video.
I started my groovebox journey with the Circuit Rhythm as a supplement to my loop pedal and other instruments. But ended up replacing both my looper and Rhythm with the Deluge. Which for me has been an ideal device. Your videos were super helpful when learning the Rhythm. So I'm looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the Deluge.
Maschine Mikro and Live is great together. Use it as a plug in for drums/synth sounds and also as a controller for Live. Very flexible powerful workflow.
love your honesty! I see most of the things similar, m8 is a one man show, that's why it's super tweaked out with super quick firmware bug fixes and even more features. while I love my mpc live 2 cause as it turned out, it was exactly what I needed and it's now the main piece in my setup. But the m8 with my lsdj background, I neeeed it!!^^
Currently, testing Sampltrek. Love the live looping ( though it has to be set up, god damn at least its there Roland!!! ) and the Ableton song structure. Although internal speaker and mic are bare bones basic I absolutely love the option as I have no space for extra cables. SP404 still offers bigger pads and MC101 massive amount of synth sounds but I am slowly starting to love that thing. What I do not care for is micro USB and not being able to adjust the chop after the initial one you do to load it into the track. Lets see what updates will bring. Thank for your good work kind sir.
I’d love for you to try out the new Woovebox, Gabe. Looks like a Pocket Operator on steroids that still fits in your pocket. I’m having serious GAS issues with that one.
THIS^
I'd love to send one to Gabe at some stage. Big fan of the channel, and I referenced a number of his videos during the making of the Woovebox (for example his "Dear makers... The Most Important Groovebox Features" video). No pressure on Gabe though - like many of Gabe's videos this one hit home as well. Sometimes you need to take a step back and limit what you're working on, to be able to stay true to your goals, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!
@@woovebox cool! I’ll take one too and review it. 🙄😬😜 I’ve actually been planning on reviewing all of my collection of Synths on my channel one day.
For me, it was the Polyend Play that really fit with my workflow style and opened up a lot of music making doors. I'm surprised you haven't tried one yet!
Thanks I loved the video
it's the analog rytm for me. that combined with my digitakt takes me further than anything else i've had before in my studio
I highly recommend the deluge, but I use it with friends... mc101 and controlling ableton. The deluge is awesome to do live sets as well. Rechargeable battery is incredible, and the sequencer is the best I've ever seen
I've been through a similar journey and, after owning and selling many of these devices, I've realised that the only option that ticks all the boxes is a small laptop with Ableton. Cheaper than anything on the list, way more portable than most, large screen, works perfectly sitting on the sofa without being plugged in, slips in a bag but could run a live set and does literally everything. If you really need pads, add a launchpad but using a keyboard and mouse is so much easier.
Everything else that is simpler to use is way too limited. Everything that has anything approaching the same functionality is hamstrung by a way less usable interface.
You said at the end of the video that it's all about tradeoffs - but there's no tradeoff with this set up.
How dare you 😂! The Polyend Tracker is probably the best standalone groovebox along side the MPC and the Force. I honestly think that the AK Force & Poly Tracker are the most underappreciated devices on the market.
MPC One is really the end all for me.
I do love my SP-303 and my Digitakt as well though.
Whatever you choose, some will be agree and others will be disagree. Personnaly, you and Knarf, guiding my first groovebox buying untill a circuit tracks.
After 10 month, i turn to the mc707, helped by some of your vids and some other excellent users on TH-cam.
Thanks
The Deluge was my answer: Went from MPC One (Returned) -> Roland 707 (returned) -> Deluge. Never looked back, same reasons, same purpose, it does have the Electron, my-way or the high-way stuff, but once you learn it.
Excited by the selection I see on the thumbnail here……
Nice extensive overview. 🙏 Would've been nice to link the previous parts in the description... just a suggestion.
For me, it's a combination of the Roland TR-8S and the Elektron Octatrack and Digitone, it solved all the major problems I've had, I'm using the TR-8S for beats and matter effects, controlled by tracks 1-4 on the OT plus its large FX capabilities, and the Digitone on tracks 5-8 for melodic purposes, and of course also there, the OT effects, inspired by the one and only @EZBOT, who is an absolute genius on those Elektron machines. 💪
I think they’ll be updated the force soon, it’s been out quite a while and could do with more ram etc would be a good alternative to the ableton push 3 since you can export to a live workflow.
I found my two best ones:
Octatrack
Polyend Tracker
They’re simply top tier for me, 8 tracks, resampling, stereo, cv and midi sequencing and the “mechanical” feel to them and simple complexity of having to think in a specifically structured way
I don’t know, man.
I think people would be super happy with watching you actually construct tracks and go through the actual workflow of your creative process.
I don’t think that’s something people would be bummed with you uploading.
I hope so, because that's most of what I make on this channel!
@@GabeMillerMusic You could always try digging into and integrating some more retro gear into your workflow.
It’d be cool to see what you’d do with a sp-303 or even an MPC 2000xl
Love these ! A bit surprised you didnt mention Machine Plus as its standalone. I use it with a powerbank and its great now as it has matured with its firmware
I covered it in the previous roundup video, it was the first more expensive standalone that I tried. I liked it a lot, but I've found stuff I like more.
Have you seen the Woovebox? It's smaller than a pocket operator, has 16 buttons and 1 clickable knob, but it's feature list is insane. 16 tracks/channels, each of which can be exported seprately as .wav stems, midi out on all channels independently, both sampling and internal oscillators, polyrhythmic sequencing with each track set to different lengths, oscillators capable of fm, multiple lfos, interesting onboard fx, probability and a huge list of conditional triggers, an internal battery, with 10 hour capacity when not using bluetooth, scale quantization for notes and chord following for other tracks in-scale, 2 polyphonic tracks, sample slicing, per note param locks. That's just scratching the surface. about $250 to order. For a project essentially made by 1 guy, it makes you wonder why the feature sets of established companies' grooveboxes are often so paltry.
I have a lot of the same boxes. When it comes to trying to get your head around the Deluge, I can not recommend the tutorial series by RSKT enough. It’s really amazing. I chatted with him and I think he creates educational videos for a living (my memory ain’t the best). Watch his videos with the Deluge in front of you, and try to follow him, step-by-step, pausing the vids to explore. My Deluge was fairly neglected before I did his coarse. 2 cents deposited.
Yes, using Maschine with Ableton is nice. Just load it as a plugin and go. You can make a pattern in the Maschine window and then drag the pattern over to Ableton to use it just like any other clip.
Between Drambo and Logic for iPad, and a ton of insanely good plugins (Zeeon and Model 15 are two of the best synths anywhere), an iPad Pro is really hard to beat. It’s the midway between the box and the laptop.
LOVE my MPC Live Mk.1. It's big, but manageable and I love the workflow. I also just ordered a Woovebox, which should be here soon. Talk about a contrast in portable size. :)
Love following your journey here! I've been on a similar one, though not as extensive. I've recently sold my mpc live 2 and just picked up the push 3 as someone who's barely touched ableton, and I've been having a blast. It's definitely less portable (probably as big as the force and a bit on the heavy side), but you could certainly use a laptop bag with a decksaver if it's wide enough. There are certainly some downsides in standalone, like being unable to make instrument chains on the device (please ableton 🙏), but you can import existing chains, and no arrangement view but its just as easy to import the project over wifi to the pc to do finishing touches there. Plus, the mpe pads feel super satisfying to play. I'm still only scratching the surface with it but i can see myself using this for quite some time. I wish the battery life was a bit better, though i can deal with that since i usually won't use it standalone for more than a couple hours at a time.
Thanks so much for all the work you do putting these videos together, it's been great following along, and look forward to hearing your thoughts on gear in the future!
@Gabe, when you first featured the FORCE I was excited cuz I thought that you would love it... Then you kind of abandoned it in your videos & seemed more drawn to the mc101/707 and the novation drum machines. I'm glad that the FORCE finally grew on ya, & that you see the strengths in it. It's definitely my go to groovebox & is at the center of my studio.
I own every single groove box on the market, so do many other people. Do you know what I've discovered? For me and I suspect many others as well is that if you can pick something up, have fun, ease of use, portability, cost, etc .... that it has given me the most joy. Right now, I am absolutely loving my EP133 KO 2 and Roland Aira S-1. I have thousands and thousands of dollars in gear, I can afford it but, it's still a lightly bitter feeling in many ways. You absolutely do not need to spend a lot of money, that I know for a fact.
still on my mpc live 2 and barely touch ableton. I haven't experienced too many issues with it, but i tend to use it more as a hardware synth sequencer than an entirely in-the-box groove box.
I have tried all grooveboxes since the first one. I settled for Push 3 standalone. It’s expensive, but imo the best option right now.
We need another video if you can get your hands on the new stuff like Polyend Play Plus, Yamaha Seqtrack, etc!
I love hardware, and 3 months ago I would have said I vastly prefer to make my music out of the box.
Recently bought an Oxi One to be able to sequence across formats(on a single grid i can see digitakt and eurorack sequences, my eurorack bass module harmonizes with the minifreak ect).
It may not make sounds but it has become my favorite groovebox ive ever owned, when paired with a macbook air and ableton. I'm sampling ableton into my digi far more than i did before.
I have a mimic of my hardware rig set up as a template. On the go I'll sketch out some ideas; controlling and sequencing the session with the oxi. Once I'm home, I just have to jack the oxi in via 2 cables and everything translates over to my rig.
Great stuff! I am older and have space (luckily :) ... so keeping several grooveboxes is what I do. For several years I went completely dawless, but am now hybrid (probably 75% outside / 25% inside the box). For me I like to do 4 songs on one device and then switch. I find switching gear inspiring, but at the same time I don't feel like I need to buy stuff all the time. Funny thing is it took me years before I tried Elektron... well that was a mistake... lol. I know own several and really love them. I am especially surprised by my love for the digitakt. I have several stereo samplers... but something about the Digitakt just inspires me to try new tricks. I have the mc 707... strangely enough I mostly use it as sampling source.... tons of great sounds... while it is easy to build patterns on it I don't enjoy that there as much. I'll always keep my OG mpc live (got it the first week it came out). My sp404mk2 is also used... but mostly for resampling and or as an effects unit. Lots of other honorable mentions... but I feel like the Electron A4 doesn't get enough love... imo the price is silly for a new one... but I grabbed an OG version on the cheap and the sounds are super!
I personally have slowly settled on a MC-707 and a TR8S which is such a recent acquisition this was my first night jamming with it and I need to get the cables I need to use it with my MC-707. I wish I was joking but I got offered a TR8S in mint barely used condition for 500$ and I couldn't pass it up with the introduction of the CR78 ABM stuff to it pushed it fully over the edge for me personally. Thankfully both where bought used so I'm only out about 1100$ which for as much power as the set up is all ready bringing to me I'm not seeing any new addition to my hardware stable for a while.
I feel the Polyend tracker mini sounds perfect for gabe and would make for a great video
I do use Machine as a plugin within Ableton and it makes my workflow way easier. No issues at all apart from Machine's transport controls won't work while running Machine as a plugin within Ableton
If I was designing the perfect groove box/ portable synth for me, it would be a combo of the ones I mentioned earlier sort of. I’d really like a Roland VerseLab or boutique sized Fantom-0 that still has the full Fantom-0 engine. It could use pads like from the MV-1 but have a nice color touch screen like the Fantom 0 but smaller and maybe use an iPhone or iPad link through USB for more control like they do now with ZenBeats. I’d even settle for less polyphony than the Fantom-0 like 128 would be fine.
If I was looking for something really small, I’d like them to redesign the MC-101 to have all the same features, plus more but change the following: make it the size of the Aira Compacts like the S-1, so basically just thinner and add built-in lithium batteries and a USB-C interface. Add a stereo line-in for sampling and 1 XLR mic input and make that an extra track for 5 total. Then give it the vocal capabilities of the MV1. A better, larger, higher resolution OLED screen and velocity sensitive keys would round it out and make it the best truly portable groovebox ever in my opinion. Of it could use a phone as a screen too that would rock and maybe it wouldn’t need a bigger screen. Maybe.
The mc 101 is perfect for on the go and powerful to. I probably would like the force as a desktop setup.
the deluge is improved by the new screen if you are up to paying for that, but its not a must...
I'd love for you to get your hands on and review the Polyend Play!
My favourite is the MPC Live 2. I got all the novation groove boxes, had all the Roland ones, got an MPC one and the LIVE2 and some elektron stuff but the MPC Live2 seems to hit that sweet spot of everything I need. But if my mpc was not available, I'd probably stick with my Novation stuff.
First of all, I really like this kind of quick comparison videos. Especially when they confirm my biased opinion on the gear that’s being reviewed 😉 Which this time isn’t the case, but hey… still thanks for the effort 👍🏻 and I really like the style you use!
Of course we could debate on the definition of a ‘groove box’ vs. a sample workstation, drumcomputer and/or the widespread range selected…
But, what I really don’t understand is why people consider the Akai Force a ‘stand-alone device’ (yes, I know semantics) and even prefer it over, for instance, a Push (or your NI) controller attached to a Mac Mini running Ableton (or MPC software or optional add-ons) with a similar workflow.
For me, both Elektron devices should be considered ‘standalone devices’ with a typical HW interface and creative workflow. And, if you take the Roland definition of a groovebox into account they tick most of the boxes, too.
But hey, simply my opinion… thanks again for sharing yours!
If only Yamaha would make a modern version of their QY series that had VA, FM and the classic sequencer functionalities and would be compact and portable, that would be a killer. Main issue I have with the Force and the new Push standalone is the price - the device needs to be REALLY fun to use and be somewhat groundbreaking in it's workflow, otherwise the laptop still wins.
The most fun I've had in recent weeks is the Octatrack, combined with other gear, like the MPC Live/Blofeld/MC-707. There's something really weird in it's workflow that keeps drawing me in, even though most folks have serious PTSD from using it. \o/
I'm upgrading my MPC at some point. Either the One or Live 2. I currently have the Touch and I use that in Reason with the MPC software for drums and samples. The next one will serve the same purpose but I'll be building a hybrid system around it with a few hardware synths and an analog mixer
I really enjoy the live 2, I have never used a daw before though so take my opinion with a grain of reverb.
If you don’t need the extra connectivity of the live 2 and don’t care much about the extra portability, I recommend the one! It has gone down at retail and is a really good deal now imo
@@traderjoes7976 it's tricky. The Luve 2 has almost the exact same connectivity as my previous MPC 2000 minus 2 audio outs which would help regarding the hybrid system I want to start. The speaker would be too much. I like the speakers I have now. Alesis M1 Active Mk IIIs. So I wouldn't necessarily need that. I'll probably at the most get 3 external synths and I doubt I'll need more than 16 MIDI channels. If I do and get the one, I can always grab another interface and expand it if I need to. Plus I'll be using keygroup programs as well. Maybe 1 or 2.
Now you're going to have to do part 4 with the Polyend Play+ and the Yamaha Seqtrak. Plus if you're returning to the laptop, maybe the Push 3 standalone needs a shot. And you still have to announce that the new winner is the Delly, especially with the new community firmware.
Hi, I enjoyed your take on all these grooveboxes, do you think that e.g. Akai Force would be a good choice to create a Dj set if one decided not to use a laptop for that?
While not quite out of the "Alpha" stage yet, I'd love to see what you think of the Community open-source firmware for the Deluge as well. If you have any coding experience (or just a willingness to test and provide feedback) you're more than welcome to join the effort 😉
My favorite piece of gear is the MC-101 ; I am actually trying to pair it with the TR-6S. Sure the MC-707 could fulfill my needs, but it is not portable. There is also the MV-1 but I am not yet convinced.
My second favorite piece of gear is the Model:Cycles. Certainly it sounds particular, but it is so powerfull !