Thanks Mr. D'Amore for the quality information. Always good to hear it from a quality engineer rather than from someone who thinks they know what they are talking about. Love all the new product you are developing and can't wait to see more.
A very good, informational video, and thorough lecture on the two main signal cables, DAmoreEngineering. Thumbs up. The 2 methodologies are explained well. Therefore, we are not going to make mistakes based on connectivity to amplifiers for our hi fi audio systems.
Very helpful- I bought a new differential preamp and amp but kept coaxial cables and couldn't explain the noise that I created. Eventually went xlr but wish I saw this video prior. In the real end figured that it was caused by halogen sconces emitting noise to the room even on separate electrical drops.
Tony, im a EE in the industrisl industry. I never really had a professional opportunity to work in the Ee field. On the other hand, I have always love the audio end as a hobby. Recently I have embarked into xar audio. I have watched your videos and it rekindled my love of it. I have applied it to my car design and I have excellect car tunes. Thank You. Keep up the instructional videos.
For all the folks hemmimg and hawing over balanced XLR and RCA not being able to carry a balanced signal... An RCA can carry a balanced signal, if it uses a twisted pair wire. The cable assembly will simply be unshielded. We often wire studio installs with telescoping shields, where the shield (pin 1) is disconnected at the input of each device. this drains static and RF back to the Chassis Ground in only one direction, terminating to a common ground bus. This avoids ground loops. The shield in a balanced audio system carries no signal... At least we hope not!
Wow that's some AWESOME info man!! I know this is old but this is however NEVER mentioned anymore lol. I'm a noob and I am glad I found this for my first SQL build!! 👏🏼👏🏼👌👌💪💪🔥
Take an ohm meter (DMM) and check the resistance from the battery ground connection on amplifier to the RCA outer ring on amplifier (with everything unplugged from amplifier). If you have less than 100 ohms it is a single-ended input.
DAmoreEngineering Wow, thanks for the reply! I know you guys explained the same thing in the video, but for some reason I feel that this explanation is more solid. On an unrelated note, I had always known about your company from Steve Meade's videos, but now once I figure out which type of RCA I need I'll most likely end up buying from you. Keep up the awesome work guys, this type of potential customer relations and not keeping this information hidden and secret like everyone else really shows what kind of a company you are.
lowellaby You have a positive and ground connection on any amplifier that runs on DC. The "battery ground connection" is the big ground connection for which you hook up your main ground wire to.
Thank you very much. This was very helpful. Its funny how you mentioned that the Industries forgot about that technology cuz yeah this is the first time I've ever heard about it. Thanks again
If the head unit has SE outputs and the amplifier has SE inputs = coax cable If the head unit has SE outputs and the amplifier has Diff inputs = twisted pair If the head unit has Diff outputs and the amplifier has Diff inputs = twister pair If the head unit has Diff outputs and the amplifier has SE inputs = bad no matter what as you will shorting out half of the head unit's outputs. In this case you would need an amplifier with Diff inputs or a converter to convert the head unit's outputs to SE
DAmoreEngineering, Sorry for the late reply. Just saw this. Most head units with Diff outputs has a current limiting resistor so when it connected to a grounded input, there is no harm done. This is done for compatibility. It is true the level is then down 6db which is the proper level for most unbalanced inputs.
Any chance you know what it would be considered if I'm going from an IPhone Lightening connector to RCA converter back to a BOSS car amplifier (pf1800)?
I did not experience any difference in quality or performance on my Audison LRX 1.1k with cheap and expensive RCA cables, tried both of these types as well. Marketing crap.
The issue with Differential Input Cable doesn't surprise me. Monster Cable had manufactured these since the 1990's with Interlink 300 & 400 Series. There are White Stickers with Arrows denoting the Signal Flow which plugs into the source.
I have never heard of this! One thing I don't understand, the majority of RCA cables marketed for automotive amplifiers seem to be twisted pair. ALL of Rockford Fostgagte's cables are twisted pair, so does that mean they are DI?
Cool. Thank you so much for this. I’m trying to add a phono preamp signal to a b&k avr505 receiver but it has to be a 15’ cable for proper placement of the turntable without drastically altering the setup. I tested the turntable signal with a shorter standard RCA cable (6.6’ Prosolutions Blue Soft analog rca) and it worked great. The new long cable creates low level static/feedback/white noise through the speakers with one end just plugged into the receiver inputs. I believe the new cable is a center lead, shielded coax. This maybe my issue.
What???.... So what Im getting is some gear basically has noise reduction apparently built in to but could possibly not be used with coaxials because of some extra shielding for noise reduction? Really? Is it because like noise reduction wires plus noise reduction (whatever you said in the amp) equals just no noise? Or is there more of a difference then just shielding between a coaxial and twisted cable?
In my experience, it is extremely rare nowadays to use RCA-style for DI signals. Maybe that 's why this info is not common in the industry, These days the industry convention dictates XLR cables for DI. The 3 pins of XLR are signal+, signal- and shield. For example, my CD player has both outputs. All the best, Rob
Hello i have a weird problem. I have 3 Jvc ks ax6500 and they all work. And after measuring the positive and negative input to ground the value is 10Kohm on all 4 channels But from 1 rca negative to the other 3 rca negative it's 0 ohms, is this a problem?
Mr Damore, are you able to show us how one sounds compared to the other if you use the wrong one? I know you are busy, but I really would appreciate it! Or maybe anyone else has a link to a video like that? Thank you! -iMickey503-PDX
Thank you. but i am not sure i understand how to tell if the amp is single ended: should it have no resistance between the rca input and the ground ? i think you mentioned it should have 1000 ohm or less ?
So, what is Kimber PBJ? It looks like twisted pair (braided, actually). No shield. But it's not called out as specifically single-ended or differential. It sounds the same as my Blue Jeans LC-1. I guess I always assumed that all RCA cable is single-ended.
I’m trying to figure out if my amplifiers are differential or single ended. Mosconi as100.4 measured approximately 1100 ohms. The amplifiers are measured that are differential are like in the 10 thousand plus ohms readings.
There is a question that I've been wanting to get answered. If I measure a balanced car audio signal with a digital multimeter and get 8 volts reading would that become 4 volts going into an unbalanced RCA input at an amplifier? That would seem to be the case because the inverted signal or basically half the voltage is getting grounded at The amp anyways so the voltage will be cut in half right?
Would this mix up of RCA on an amplifier cause some scratchiness or quite white noise effect? I'm not talking about alternator whine or something like a ground loop whine, but I mean just the different cable causing noise.
So, I am looking at a JL Audio VX1000/5i amp for a new car audio build. It has RCA inputs and in the documentation I noticed it says Differential Input on those inputs. So what do you use with a source that is not Differential? Any problems there? Also, which cable?
Well described!! Thanks for the great explanation. I'm in the middle of doing a sound system upgrade for my car. I was told that the best way for me to keep my stock head unit in my car and connect it to an aftermarket amplifier is to tie an RCA cable to the 5 output pairs (Front right/left, rear right/left and sub) going back to the amp. Someone mentioned it was a "Clean signal" coming from the stock headunit. If this method is true, what happens to the braided shield if I were to strip the other end of the RCA? Do I tie the shield together with of the ground wires coming from the 5 output pairs? Thanks for any help in advanced!!
R C the output you are getting from a stock head unit is already amplified. You need a line level converter. If you tie the amplified levels to an RCA directly to your amp you are going to have major problems.
My crossover is single. Would it matter using the double from my head unit to the crossover before it gets to the amps? Only reason I ask is because I just got my expensive twisted rca in today. Wish I saw this video a week ago.
Really great information, just a small suggestion though. If you put this comment in the description that would be great for later use in case it is not on top when someone tries to go back to see this video. Thanks for the awesome information!
Hey Anthony, nice video! I have a question: I use a Marantz AV7005, which offers XLR out (not sure if balanced) and 9 surround channels run on cheap TDA7492 chip, which has differential inputs. No ground to - , signal passes through 2 op amps before being amplified. The 2 main front channels comes from the Marantz and go to a 845 SET power amplifier. This has the input - grounded. Here comes the question: Knowing that I can get balanced and unbalanced outputs, which cable type should I use where? Thanks and regards, Dieter
How does the end consumer know which one to use? How would the end consumer know what kind of outputs the head unit has and what kind of inputs the amp has?
Testing both of my amplifiers, a 4 channel Pioneer and a mono Kicker, I got roughly 17k ohms on the Pioneer, and roughly 6-30m ohms on the Kicker. The Kicker amplifier specifies that it's a differential model, while the Pioneer doesn't mention anything about the type of input it uses. So I am going to assume that the Pioneer is a single ended based off of the lower resistance shown vs the known differential resistance shown on the Kicker. I hope I am correct in my assumption!
Great video. I almost understand. Quick question: Why does the noise cancel out yet the out of phase signal somehow gets back in phase and doubles in intensity? Thanks!!
He does show this. The phases are opposite from the signal source and one gets subtracted. When you subtract a negativie, it adds. 10 - (-10) = 20. This basically doubles the amplitude of the signal. The interference/noise hits each cable the same, so when it is subtracted at the end... 1.237 - 1.237 = 0, in theory.
I have big questions. Please. My HU is a Pioneer DEH-80PRS. From what is available online I have found that this might be a "single ended" RCA preout head unit. If I use twisted/ balanced RCA cables to an amplifier that is ALSO "single ended," what could happen? Is there any loss or risk? Any gain? Any chance of damage?? Also, my DMM says 1166 on the ohm reading when connecting the positive lead to the RCA Input outer ring and the negative lead to the ground on the disconnected/ unpowered amp model amp PX1900.4 Massive. Does this mean the amp is "single ended?" Or "differential?"
thanks for the info! never knew this. i had a pioneer avh-4400bh and swapped out for power acoustik pnk-761. i had a couple issues wit this but one thing im curious about is why the sound was much lower than my pioneer. they were both 4 volt pre outs. could the wrong type of rca cables affect the travel of sound volume to the amps or was this stereo reallt just that bad?
Hey Anthony, another question: would it be the best of both worlds if use a shieded twisted pair, like a CAT6 STP cable and ground the shield? thanks and regards, Dieter
You may have had experience with this but when running RCA cables close to cabling for light clusters induces noise, for example in my case the loom is down the left hand side of an E90 and following the factory loom which are basically the cables going to the light cluster down the left hand side down to where the factory amplifier normally is, when you put your foot on the brake static noise can be heard. I want to keep my RCA run tidy with the factory cabling but have found it to be problematic in that it picks up EMI whenever I put my foot on the brake. I have verified this when disconnecting the plug that runs to the rear light cluster and the noise is no longer there. The cabling is the 6 channel Stinger 4000 series. I have tried other cables but to no avail. Running it down the centre console works better but I have found it to be untidy for cable management. The headunit is an aftermarket 80prs, so it’s a straight RCA run from the headunit to the amp. The amplifier is a class D five channel JBL GTR 7535.
I'm using DI in my Polk audio amp since November and I haven't had a problem but I'm curious what's the side affect because I didn't understand that much in the video
Wouldn't this require a HU with differential outputs? Otherwise, how would would the sine waves become inverted to one another across the twisted pairs to begin with? Seems to me that the wire that goes to the sleeve on a twisted pair rca would not carry a wave at all if the HU has 'single ended' outputs, as it were. From what i see after a google search, HUs with differential outs are a unicorn, only a few boutique models have ever had them.
Does this mean that you need to know what outputs your head unit has? if the output rca from the head unit is the SE style, then the outer jacket of the rca which would be ground would not work for a DI style cable... could you please elaborate on that point? Thanks.
okay so if i get my meter and check for continuity from the amps ground to the shell of the rca coming out of the amp it should beep that means single coax rca and if no beep its twisted pair? is there a way to tell if you need twisted pair? if i was just looking to see if i need it
I have got 2 question. How can i know if cable is balanced or unbalanced if i look at it or any other way to find out.? 2. If my amp has balanced rca input and i have got balanced rca cable do i need also headunit or any other source wirh balanced rca output?
Is it okay to use a twisted cable on a single-ended input? You said it is bad if you use a coaxial RCA cable on a differential input, but I did not hear (or maybe I missed it) you say if you used twisted cable on a single-ended input.
I've been looking for a decent explanation on RCAs and how to wire them up for different scenarios for awhile. Although this isn't exactly that Tony's explanation combined with knowledge I already learned just turned the light bulb on in my head! Lol
This works 100%, I personally experienced this a few days ago. Has a pair of twisted high quality stinger rca's that were introducing noise, and after replacing them with a $5 junk pair of Aerpro coaxial rca's every bit of noise/whine disappeared.
Never knew! But what brands go under which category? Specifically looking for Rockford's, as that is what I have. T series. I'm guessing differential since their rcas are twisted.
Kindof a dumb question but google searches didn't come up with anything. when testing resistance of rca cables is it bad if white to white is at .5 ohms and black to black is around 1 ohm. FYI resistance doesn't change while wiggling the cords
+robert stobo Hi. No it's not. For what you measure is the resistance on your ohmmeter or multimeters cable. Try it out and just connect the two test probes of your MM together; some multimeters will show some resistance here. Your cables resistance is so low, that your ohmmeter has troubles measuring it . Think of measuring the thickness of a sheet of paper with a folding ruler!
Per JL website: "JL Audio’s Differential-Balanced Input circuits" ... "This works equally well with differential-balanced, or unbalanced signal sources, making this input architecture compatible with all standard car and marine audio equipment, using standard, unshielded, twisted-pair RCA cables. No special cables are required, unlike the fully balanced connections used in professional audio" (jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209357588-Differential-Balanced-Inputs). ----So which are you exactly referring to? Any specific amp for example?
Good and informative video. Could you add some examples of amps with differential RCA inputs? I have seen lots of amps and I must say I only come to think of one that did not have RCA ground connected to ground.
My 2008 model Kicker ZX750.1 has differential inputs. It also has a button to switch between low and high level signal, which eliminates the need to use Hi-Low converters. On the JL Audio there's an article that says it could be part of the same circuit. So my guess is that if they have the Hi-Low input switch they definitely have differential inputs. JL amps also use differential inputs.
What's the difference between Differential Input signal system and a Balanced signal system (like an XLR cable) ? I'm guessing DI inversion occurs in the amp (receiving end) and Balanced inversion occurs at the source (transmitting end). Correct me where I'm wrong.
What kind of equipment uses RCA connectors for differential signals? I notice this video offers no context at all in this regard. Working in pro-audio my whole life, I never encountered RCA connectors being used for differential signals, and doing so would prevent differential with shielding. But maybe this video isn't even about audio signals.....some context would be useful.
To be more understandable, differential input means balanced type cable, more often come in XLR form (Usually Starquad structure). Single ended not necessarily in coaxial, but more often in RCA type. Unbalanced RCA may consist 2 or more cores of wire in TRS cable.
+Tony D'Amore Why is single ended "best"? Aren't differential inputs a bonus and an extra cost on an amplifier. Wouldn't the the noise cancelling technology make it better? Not trying to contradict, just thought you would've said differently.
u2bed91 He said "usually", because (like he said in the video) most people have SE amps, and not one with DI. In other words most people will need that type for the type of amplifier they have which most times will be a SE one. If DI were more popular. He would have said the opposite type is "usually" better to use. He never said any one was best, just that one is more common.
Two different cases, two different cables - you speak about cables, but what are the cases? The way I understood cases refer to different "amp system" (meaning, there are amps that better work either with SE or DI). I had a nice stereo that I wanted to use for my computer so I ordered an RCA in to be added, which the stereo didn't have. I'm now trying to understand do I need to get DI or SE cable. So my question was do you use SE or DI based on the type of stereo?
It's nonsense, just get a normal RCA cable! What he is talking about is balanced vs unbalanced cable, however today's hifi amps will always use XLR type connection for a balanced line, not an RCA, which is traditionally unbalanced and really not the best plug for balanced connection (mostly because of it's construction and how that it has a ring on the outside). So never mind, just get a quality RCA cable and you will be good ;)
i just bought an Alpine PDX-v9 5 channel amplifier. I want the best cables for this amp. should i use a twisted wire rca? I want the best conduction of sound. i was thinking about using 12 guage speaker wire for the mids and highs. what do you think?
Interesting video. I think I have a differential amp. I have always been told to stay clear of unshielded twisted cables. When playing from a digital source with my shielded cables I have 0 noise when playing from my phono preamp I have lots of interference. So if I do have a diffential amp (cyrus 8) Would the twisted cable eliminate this noise? I get more confused every day😂
Would you please explain how any of this matters since pretty much every after market head unit has single ended rca outputs and all the amps ive tested are differential rca inputs?
If the input of the amplifier is a differential input then you would want to use a twisted pair RCA. The reason is because the idea of a differential input is to subtract the noise that is the *same* on both wires of the RCA (called common-mode noise). If the wires are physically different, the noise will be different on each and won't subtract completely..
This probably explains why I had noise I could never find and I was running Stinger 4000 rca from my Audio Control LC2i to my amps. Probably needed regular RCAs and not twisted pairs and I was a victim of just thinking they were better newer technology.
Thanks Mr. D'Amore for the quality information. Always good to hear it from a quality engineer rather than from someone who thinks they know what they are talking about. Love all the new product you are developing and can't wait to see more.
A very good, informational video, and thorough lecture on the two main signal cables, DAmoreEngineering. Thumbs up. The 2 methodologies are explained well. Therefore, we are not going to make mistakes based on connectivity to amplifiers for our hi fi audio systems.
Thank you George
Your welcomed, @@TonyInvents
Very helpful- I bought a new differential preamp and amp but kept coaxial cables and couldn't explain the noise that I created. Eventually went xlr but wish I saw this video prior. In the real end figured that it was caused by halogen sconces emitting noise to the room even on separate electrical drops.
Great video on a subject that nobody seems to ever explain, and is actually important to know.
Tony, im a EE in the industrisl industry. I never really had a professional opportunity to work in the Ee field. On the other hand, I have always love the audio end as a hobby. Recently I have embarked into xar audio. I have watched your videos and it rekindled my love of it. I have applied it to my car design and I have excellect car tunes. Thank You. Keep up the instructional videos.
Thanks a bunch Robert
For all the folks hemmimg and hawing over balanced XLR and RCA not being able to carry a balanced signal... An RCA can carry a balanced signal, if it uses a twisted pair wire. The cable assembly will simply be unshielded. We often wire studio installs with telescoping shields, where the shield (pin 1) is disconnected at the input of each device. this drains static and RF back to the Chassis Ground in only one direction, terminating to a common ground bus. This avoids ground loops. The shield in a balanced audio system carries no signal... At least we hope not!
Thank you
Very informative. I didn't even know there were two types of RCAs.
Wow that's some AWESOME info man!! I know this is old but this is however NEVER mentioned anymore lol. I'm a noob and I am glad I found this for my first SQL build!! 👏🏼👏🏼👌👌💪💪🔥
Audio school w/Tony D! Great vid, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Big D wiz..I'm outta heeeeerrr
Thank you for explaining this, very helpful as I'm starting to make my own RCA connections.
Excellent presentation. Simple, but effective. You might consider a discussion on UTP vs. STP and if STP how to properly connect the shield.
Thanks. Spent all day trying to figure out why this Monster cable I just cut open had red/white wires instead of a single signal wire. Now I get it.
Can you post a video on How to determine if a amp is a single ended or differential?
+Nikko Civic Open the manual and read it.
Wow.. I have never heard of this or even heard anyone talk about this.. People need to know this information..Thank you!
The only problem is that nobody lists what kind of RCA input or output they have on their headunit or amplifier.
Take an ohm meter (DMM) and check the resistance from the battery ground connection on amplifier to the RCA outer ring on amplifier (with everything unplugged from amplifier). If you have less than 100 ohms it is a single-ended input.
DAmoreEngineering Wow, thanks for the reply! I know you guys explained the same thing in the video, but for some reason I feel that this explanation is more solid.
On an unrelated note, I had always known about your company from Steve Meade's videos, but now once I figure out which type of RCA I need I'll most likely end up buying from you. Keep up the awesome work guys, this type of potential customer relations and not keeping this information hidden and secret like everyone else really shows what kind of a company you are.
+DAmoreEngineering What exactly is a battery ground connection on an amplifier? Chassis ground won't work? Thanks for your time.
lowellaby You have a positive and ground connection on any amplifier that runs on DC. The "battery ground connection" is the big ground connection for which you hook up your main ground wire to.
@LD Blake I have disputed this topic in these comments many times. You do not need a ground or shield wire to send a differential signal.
I hope I am understanding but what if head unit is differential and amp is single ended?
Thank you very much. This was very helpful. Its funny how you mentioned that the Industries forgot about that technology cuz yeah this is the first time I've ever heard about it. Thanks again
If the head unit has SE outputs and the amplifier has SE inputs = coax cable
If the head unit has SE outputs and the amplifier has Diff inputs = twisted pair
If the head unit has Diff outputs and the amplifier has Diff inputs = twister pair
If the head unit has Diff outputs and the amplifier has SE inputs = bad no matter what as you will shorting out half of the head unit's outputs. In this case you would need an amplifier with Diff inputs or a converter to convert the head unit's outputs to SE
DAmoreEngineering, Sorry for the late reply. Just saw this. Most head units with Diff outputs has a current limiting resistor so when it connected to a grounded input, there is no harm done. This is done for compatibility. It is true the level is then down 6db which is the proper level for most unbalanced inputs.
Any chance you know what it would be considered if I'm going from an IPhone Lightening connector to RCA converter back to a BOSS car amplifier (pf1800)?
I did not experience any difference in quality or performance on my Audison LRX 1.1k with cheap and expensive RCA cables, tried both of these types as well. Marketing crap.
The issue with Differential Input Cable doesn't surprise me. Monster Cable had manufactured these since the 1990's with Interlink 300 & 400 Series. There are White Stickers with Arrows denoting the Signal Flow which plugs into the source.
Great lesson. Wonderfully simple and eye openings. Thanks
Very well explained in very simple words,thank You
So the Signal is coming from a what high end CD player, going into a. high end Amplifier? What Audio Equipment has a DIFFERENTIAL OUTPUT? Examples?
I have never heard of this! One thing I don't understand, the majority of RCA cables marketed for automotive amplifiers seem to be twisted pair. ALL of Rockford Fostgagte's cables are twisted pair, so does that mean they are DI?
Very clear and informative. Please make more this kind of videos!
Cool. Thank you so much for this. I’m trying to add a phono preamp signal to a b&k avr505 receiver but it has to be a 15’ cable for proper placement of the turntable without drastically altering the setup. I tested the turntable signal with a shorter standard RCA cable (6.6’ Prosolutions Blue Soft analog rca) and it worked great. The new long cable creates low level static/feedback/white noise through the speakers with one end just plugged into the receiver inputs. I believe the new cable is a center lead, shielded coax. This maybe my issue.
Good info. This information definitely was dropped from mainstream industry. Glad to have people like you to bring into light.
What???.... So what Im getting is some gear basically has noise reduction apparently built in to but could possibly not be used with coaxials because of some extra shielding for noise reduction? Really? Is it because like noise reduction wires plus noise reduction (whatever you said in the amp) equals just no noise? Or is there more of a difference then just shielding between a coaxial and twisted cable?
Here is a good question. What is the source is different from the amplifier?
In my experience, it is extremely rare nowadays to use RCA-style for DI signals. Maybe that 's why this info is not common in the industry,
These days the industry convention dictates XLR cables for DI. The 3 pins of XLR are signal+, signal- and shield. For example, my CD player has both outputs. All the best, Rob
Yes, some car audio companies would use balanced signal with two RCA's. But that's not what Tony Bologna is describing here.
@@RobotUndergroundalways making me hungry man 😂😋
Hello i have a weird problem. I have 3 Jvc ks ax6500 and they all work.
And after measuring the positive and negative input to ground the value is 10Kohm on all 4 channels
But from 1 rca negative to the other 3 rca negative it's 0 ohms, is this a problem?
What about if the amplifier has a feedback loop from the negative input to the output?
I doubt that amps with differential inputs are made with RCA jacks instead of XLRs. That would be kind of dumb.
Mr Damore, are you able to show us how one sounds compared to the other if you use the wrong one? I know you are busy, but I really would appreciate it! Or maybe anyone else has a link to a video like that? Thank you! -iMickey503-PDX
Thank you. but i am not sure i understand how to tell if the amp is single ended: should it have no resistance between the rca input and the ground ? i think you mentioned it should have 1000 ohm or less ?
So, what is Kimber PBJ? It looks like twisted pair (braided, actually). No shield. But it's not called out as specifically single-ended or differential. It sounds the same as my Blue Jeans LC-1. I guess I always assumed that all RCA cable is single-ended.
Twisted or braided will be differential, shielded will be single or coaxial.
@DAmoreEngineering, Great explanation. Tony, can you also discuss RCA outputs in relation to what you discussed about RCA inputs? Thanks.
Could fiberglass or internal mirror light conduits help better with future further use?
Does your source unit have any effect on what cables will work best?
I’m trying to figure out if my amplifiers are differential or single ended. Mosconi as100.4 measured approximately 1100 ohms. The amplifiers are measured that are differential are like in the 10 thousand plus ohms readings.
There is a question that I've been wanting to get answered. If I measure a balanced car audio signal with a digital multimeter and get 8 volts reading would that become 4 volts going into an unbalanced RCA input at an amplifier? That would seem to be the case because the inverted signal or basically half the voltage is getting grounded at The amp anyways so the voltage will be cut in half right?
How to understand which amlifire what kind of type is ? I checked several manuals during the video and did not get any information.
Would this mix up of RCA on an amplifier cause some scratchiness or quite white noise effect? I'm not talking about alternator whine or something like a ground loop whine, but I mean just the different cable causing noise.
So, I am looking at a JL Audio VX1000/5i amp for a new car audio build. It has RCA inputs and in the documentation I noticed it says Differential Input on those inputs. So what do you use with a source that is not Differential? Any problems there? Also, which cable?
If it’s twisted pair do they usually list that somewhere on the rescue we it would you always have to probe the RCA jack?
Which rca to use if the amps need twisted pair (Taramps) and the head unit and eq needs coaxial (Sony head unit, Rockford 360)
Interested as well in what to do in such cases where there's a mismatch...
Well described!! Thanks for the great explanation.
I'm in the middle of doing a sound system upgrade for my car. I was told that the best way for me to keep my stock head unit in my car and connect it to an aftermarket amplifier is to tie an RCA cable to the 5 output pairs (Front right/left, rear right/left and sub) going back to the amp. Someone mentioned it was a "Clean signal" coming from the stock headunit.
If this method is true, what happens to the braided shield if I were to strip the other end of the RCA? Do I tie the shield together with of the ground wires coming from the 5 output pairs? Thanks for any help in advanced!!
R C the output you are getting from a stock head unit is already amplified. You need a line level converter. If you tie the amplified levels to an RCA directly to your amp you are going to have major problems.
Didn't get how the noise is subtracted from the twisted-pair line...
I believe it works on the principle of phase cancellation. Same concept as extracting acapellas from music
For those balanced headphones connections, does it make any difference which type of wire I use? Thanks!
My crossover is single. Would it matter using the double from my head unit to the crossover before it gets to the amps? Only reason I ask is because I just got my expensive twisted rca in today. Wish I saw this video a week ago.
Really great information, just a small suggestion though. If you put this comment in the description that would be great for later use in case it is not on top when someone tries to go back to see this video.
Thanks for the awesome information!
Hey Anthony,
nice video!
I have a question:
I use a Marantz AV7005, which offers XLR out (not sure if balanced) and 9 surround channels run on cheap TDA7492 chip, which has differential inputs. No ground to - , signal passes through 2 op amps before being amplified.
The 2 main front channels comes from the Marantz and go to a 845 SET power amplifier. This has the input - grounded.
Here comes the question:
Knowing that I can get balanced and unbalanced outputs, which cable type should I use where?
Thanks and regards,
Dieter
Is that noise you talked about the buzzing noise i heard in my old sound system?
How does the end consumer know which one to use? How would the end consumer know what kind of outputs the head unit has and what kind of inputs the amp has?
So the higher end amplifiers you're referring here are class A and AB?
Testing both of my amplifiers, a 4 channel Pioneer and a mono Kicker, I got roughly 17k ohms on the Pioneer, and roughly 6-30m ohms on the Kicker. The Kicker amplifier specifies that it's a differential model, while the Pioneer doesn't mention anything about the type of input it uses. So I am going to assume that the Pioneer is a single ended based off of the lower resistance shown vs the known differential resistance shown on the Kicker. I hope I am correct in my assumption!
Great video. I almost understand. Quick question: Why does the noise cancel out yet the out of phase signal somehow gets back in phase and doubles in intensity? Thanks!!
He does show this. The phases are opposite from the signal source and one gets subtracted. When you subtract a negativie, it adds. 10 - (-10) = 20. This basically doubles the amplitude of the signal. The interference/noise hits each cable the same, so when it is subtracted at the end... 1.237 - 1.237 = 0, in theory.
I have big questions. Please. My HU is a Pioneer DEH-80PRS. From what is available online I have found that this might be a "single ended" RCA preout head unit. If I use twisted/ balanced RCA cables to an amplifier that is ALSO "single ended," what could happen? Is there any loss or risk? Any gain? Any chance of damage?? Also, my DMM says 1166 on the ohm reading when connecting the positive lead to the RCA Input outer ring and the negative lead to the ground on the disconnected/ unpowered amp model amp PX1900.4 Massive. Does this mean the amp is "single ended?" Or "differential?"
So in a way coax is passive noise cancellation, and twisted is active cancellation?
thanks for the info! never knew this. i had a pioneer avh-4400bh and swapped out for power acoustik pnk-761. i had a couple issues wit this but one thing im curious about is why the sound was much lower than my pioneer. they were both 4 volt pre outs. could the wrong type of rca cables affect the travel of sound volume to the amps or was this stereo reallt just that bad?
Nice video now where can I find some single ended rca cables?
Planet waves do some nice ones
Hey Anthony,
another question:
would it be the best of both worlds if use a shieded twisted pair, like a CAT6 STP cable and ground the shield?
thanks and regards,
Dieter
You may have had experience with this but when running RCA cables close to cabling for light clusters induces noise, for example in my case the loom is down the left hand side of an E90 and following the factory loom which are basically the cables going to the light cluster down the left hand side down to where the factory amplifier normally is, when you put your foot on the brake static noise can be heard. I want to keep my RCA run tidy with the factory cabling but have found it to be problematic in that it picks up EMI whenever I put my foot on the brake. I have verified this when disconnecting the plug that runs to the rear light cluster and the noise is no longer there. The cabling is the 6 channel Stinger 4000 series. I have tried other cables but to no avail. Running it down the centre console works better but I have found it to be untidy for cable management. The headunit is an aftermarket 80prs, so it’s a straight RCA run from the headunit to the amp. The amplifier is a class D five channel JBL GTR 7535.
Tony, does this work for speaker wire too? Happy New Year!
I'm using DI in my Polk audio amp since November and I haven't had a problem but I'm curious what's the side affect because I didn't understand that much in the video
Wouldn't this require a HU with differential outputs? Otherwise, how would would the sine waves become inverted to one another across the twisted pairs to begin with? Seems to me that the wire that goes to the sleeve on a twisted pair rca would not carry a wave at all if the HU has 'single ended' outputs, as it were. From what i see after a google search, HUs with differential outs are a unicorn, only a few boutique models have ever had them.
Does running rca splitters to put two amps off one output badly effect the power?
This video needs to spread!
Can you use woofer cable to serve as digital coax cable?
Does this mean that you need to know what outputs your head unit has? if the output rca from the head unit is the SE style, then the outer jacket of the rca which would be ground would not work for a DI style cable... could you please elaborate on that point? Thanks.
okay so if i get my meter and check for continuity from the amps ground to the shell of the rca coming out of the amp it should beep that means single coax rca and if no beep its twisted pair? is there a way to tell if you need twisted pair? if i was just looking to see if i need it
What about the ywosted type thats shielded? I see that alot. Should I just get 4 single ended coaxials for my 4 channel?
Isn't twisted pair gonna reject common mode noise regardless of input connection if the amp and a signal source are not physicaly grounded?
I have got 2 question. How can i know if cable is balanced or unbalanced if i look at it or any other way to find out.? 2. If my amp has balanced rca input and i have got balanced rca cable do i need also headunit or any other source wirh balanced rca output?
Is it okay to use a twisted cable on a single-ended input? You said it is bad if you use a coaxial RCA cable on a differential input, but I did not hear (or maybe I missed it) you say if you used twisted cable on a single-ended input.
I've been looking for a decent explanation on RCAs and how to wire them up for different scenarios for awhile. Although this isn't exactly that Tony's explanation combined with knowledge I already learned just turned the light bulb on in my head! Lol
awesome video, but I have one question if the amp has Diff inputs and I was using coax cable would I only get half the signal to the amplifier?
This works 100%, I personally experienced this a few days ago. Has a pair of twisted high quality stinger rca's that were introducing noise, and after replacing them with a $5 junk pair of Aerpro coaxial rca's every bit of noise/whine disappeared.
Can you elaborate on the difference between commercially marketed “single-ended RCA interconnects” and “coaxial cables”, if any?
Never knew! But what brands go under which category? Specifically looking for Rockford's, as that is what I have. T series. I'm guessing differential since their rcas are twisted.
At last a tutorial without the thumping bass and background noise thats how I like it
Promoagent : but it's 100% Wrong.
Kindof a dumb question but google searches didn't come up with anything. when testing resistance of rca cables is it bad if white to white is at .5 ohms and black to black is around 1 ohm. FYI resistance doesn't change while wiggling the cords
+robert stobo Hi. No it's not. For what you measure is the resistance on your ohmmeter or multimeters cable. Try it out and just connect the two test probes of your MM together; some multimeters will show some resistance here. Your cables resistance is so low, that your ohmmeter has troubles measuring it . Think of measuring the thickness of a sheet of paper with a folding ruler!
Interesting. WHat does Rockford Fosgate T600-4 amplifier use? SE or DI? And he tells how to test for SE inputs. How does one test for DI inputs?
DI
Per JL website: "JL Audio’s Differential-Balanced Input circuits" ... "This works equally well with differential-balanced, or unbalanced signal sources, making this input architecture compatible with all standard car and marine audio equipment, using standard, unshielded, twisted-pair RCA cables. No special cables are required, unlike the fully balanced connections used in professional audio" (jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209357588-Differential-Balanced-Inputs).
----So which are you exactly referring to? Any specific amp for example?
Good and informative video. Could you add some examples of amps with differential RCA inputs? I have seen lots of amps and I must say I only come to think of one that did not have RCA ground connected to ground.
My 2008 model Kicker ZX750.1 has differential inputs. It also has a button to switch between low and high level signal, which eliminates the need to use Hi-Low converters. On the JL Audio there's an article that says it could be part of the same circuit. So my guess is that if they have the Hi-Low input switch they definitely have differential inputs. JL amps also use differential inputs.
What's the difference between Differential Input signal system and a Balanced signal system (like an XLR cable) ? I'm guessing DI inversion occurs in the amp (receiving end) and Balanced inversion occurs at the source (transmitting end). Correct me where I'm wrong.
What kind of equipment uses RCA connectors for differential signals? I notice this video offers no context at all in this regard. Working in pro-audio my whole life, I never encountered RCA connectors being used for differential signals, and doing so would prevent differential with shielding. But maybe this video isn't even about audio signals.....some context would be useful.
To be more understandable, differential input means balanced type cable, more often come in XLR form (Usually Starquad structure). Single ended not necessarily in coaxial, but more often in RCA type. Unbalanced RCA may consist 2 or more cores of wire in TRS cable.
Curious, what would be the case with Zapco's Synbilink type cables? SE or Diff? Thanx in advance.
What is my kicker kxa400.1. I wonder if even tech-support Would know if I called them
which one is the best for car amplifier
Usually coax type (single ended)
+Tony D'Amore Why is single ended "best"? Aren't differential inputs a bonus and an extra cost on an amplifier. Wouldn't the the noise cancelling technology make it better? Not trying to contradict, just thought you would've said differently.
u2bed91 He said "usually", because (like he said in the video) most people have SE amps, and not one with DI. In other words most people will need that type for the type of amplifier they have which most times will be a SE one. If DI were more popular. He would have said the opposite type is "usually" better to use. He never said any one was best, just that one is more common.
Anyone know if the DD M series sub amps are twisted pair rca or single ended?
Two different cases, two different cables - you speak about cables, but what are the cases? The way I understood cases refer to different "amp system" (meaning, there are amps that better work either with SE or DI). I had a nice stereo that I wanted to use for my computer so I ordered an RCA in to be added, which the stereo didn't have. I'm now trying to understand do I need to get DI or SE cable. So my question was do you use SE or DI based on the type of stereo?
It's nonsense, just get a normal RCA cable! What he is talking about is balanced vs unbalanced cable, however today's hifi amps will always use XLR type connection for a balanced line, not an RCA, which is traditionally unbalanced and really not the best plug for balanced connection (mostly because of it's construction and how that it has a ring on the outside). So never mind, just get a quality RCA cable and you will be good ;)
Thanks, good point!
Why does car audio use rca and home audio uses better sounding cables like hdmi?
if I twist my rcas around like while they are plugged in it makes more noise .. would that mean its coming from rcas? or could be other things?
i just bought an Alpine PDX-v9 5 channel amplifier. I want the best cables for this amp. should i use a twisted wire rca? I want the best conduction of sound. i was thinking about using 12 guage speaker wire for the mids and highs. what do you think?
Great video! I'd say most head units have SE outputs right?
Interesting video.
I think I have a differential amp.
I have always been told to stay clear of unshielded twisted cables.
When playing from a digital source with my shielded cables I have 0 noise when playing from my phono preamp I have lots of interference.
So if I do have a diffential amp (cyrus 8)
Would the twisted cable eliminate this noise?
I get more confused every day😂
Anyone know if Alpine PDX amplifier series is Differential Rca or direct?
Would you please explain how any of this matters since pretty much every after market head unit has single ended rca outputs and all the amps ive tested are differential rca inputs?
If the input of the amplifier is a differential input then you would want to use a twisted pair RCA. The reason is because the idea of a differential input is to subtract the noise that is the *same* on both wires of the RCA (called common-mode noise). If the wires are physically different, the noise will be different on each and won't subtract completely..
@@nismotony thanks for the info
This probably explains why I had noise I could never find and I was running Stinger 4000 rca from my Audio Control LC2i to my amps. Probably needed regular RCAs and not twisted pairs and I was a victim of just thinking they were better newer technology.