You are incorrect when you say the UK medical degree is not 'valued' in the US. The ECFMG has granted UK medical schools equivallence to US medical schools. You are correct in saying that a UK qualified doctor cannot legally practice medicine in the US without a license, but your point still falls flat - there are many countries that recognise the UK primary medical qualification, which is not at all the same with the UK PA course.
Hello Rodeo, you are right about the ECFMG and the PA course. The PA course is only recognised in the UK as it stands. I was trying to convey that the supposed "standard " enshrined in the title "DR" is arbitrary. If it were not, it wouldn't be illegal for a fully qualified UK Doctor to practice medicine in the USA without a license. The reason given by the Americans is that a medical practitioner without a license is unsafe, and it's a crime for them to diagnose and treat medical conditions, prescribe medication and perform surgery. I think you would agree that we have more than enough Doctors in the UK who can safely and competently do this within 1 minute of arriving in the USA. However, because of license = " standard", they can't. I accept that some countries acknowledge the primary UK qualification ( e.g. competent pathway in Australia..). However, you would also agree that not all doctors have their qualification from the UK. These non-UK doctors have to prove themselves ( e.g. standard pathway in Australia: AMC CAT MCQ) before they are allowed to practice, the same way UK doctors sit the USMLE in the USA or MCCQE in Canada. I only used the UK as an example; my point remains that the weight given to the title DR ( medical sense), though all-encompassing in one's country, can be subject to interpretation elsewhere. If I am right, then knowledge, not the title is key.
When I go to the hospital for any reason, I just want to be examined and diagnosed by the best possible professional in the building which is pretty much always the MD. They are the most educated and trained and have dedicated their lives to medicine. Personally, that's the person I want looking after me not someone who took a shortcut and is less knowledgeable and skilled in terms of healthcare and medicine. I just don't play or gamble with my health.
Hello Sperg1, I think that a patient has the right to decide on who should treat them, provided they are willing to pay the cost. I think cost is not only monetary, it can be a longer waiting time with the associated sleepless nights for yourself and loved ones. You are right, physician associates are not Doctors and it is illegal for one to claim to be such without the necessary training or acknowledgement by the GMC. However, physician associates are medical professionals and there are some things our training allows us to safely do under the supervision of doctors. If the reason that brings you to a hospital can be safely dealt with by a PA under supervision but you decline their involvement in your treatment due to your opposition to the role, you’ll have to wait for a doctor and pay any associated cost till you are seen by one and that is fine. It’s your health and this should be respected. On the matter of the best possible professional, I think you would agree that consultants in any given department are the best in that speciality. They have the expertise through formal education and years of training. However, I suppose you would not be opposed to a first-year foundation doctor seeing you in a hospital and discussing your situation with a consultant afterwards because the individual is not the best. Differently from a PA, these are both doctors but they are worlds apart. They play different but important roles. Consultants can't see all the patients and do all the necessary tasks on their own at the current price. They have to delegate some to the juniors within their competence, in the belief that matters will be brought to their attention if needed. That is the framework in which PAs work. The physician associate profession is relatively new in the UK and we have not done the work to expect the trust earned by Doctors over centuries, so your apprehensiveness is understandable. I would most likely be too if I were not one. (possible bias) I believe there is a lot still to be done and that the current state of affairs leaves questions unanswered. Hopefully one day we will be able to address them and reassure both our Doctor colleagues and the public at large. If on the other hand, the British public deems our skillset unwelcome, we will cross that bridge too.
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You’re good.
You are incorrect when you say the UK medical degree is not 'valued' in the US. The ECFMG has granted UK medical schools equivallence to US medical schools. You are correct in saying that a UK qualified doctor cannot legally practice medicine in the US without a license, but your point still falls flat - there are many countries that recognise the UK primary medical qualification, which is not at all the same with the UK PA course.
Hello Rodeo, you are right about the ECFMG and the PA course. The PA course is only recognised in the UK as it stands. I was trying to convey that the supposed "standard " enshrined in the title "DR" is arbitrary. If it were not, it wouldn't be illegal for a fully qualified UK Doctor to practice medicine in the USA without a license.
The reason given by the Americans is that a medical practitioner without a license is unsafe, and it's a crime for them to diagnose and treat medical conditions, prescribe medication and perform surgery. I think you would agree that we have more than enough Doctors in the UK who can safely and competently do this within 1 minute of arriving in the USA. However, because of license = " standard", they can't.
I accept that some countries acknowledge the primary UK qualification ( e.g. competent pathway in Australia..). However, you would also agree that not all doctors have their qualification from the UK. These non-UK doctors have to prove themselves ( e.g. standard pathway in Australia: AMC CAT MCQ) before they are allowed to practice, the same way UK doctors sit the USMLE in the USA or MCCQE in Canada.
I only used the UK as an example; my point remains that the weight given to the title DR ( medical sense), though all-encompassing in one's country, can be subject to interpretation elsewhere.
If I am right, then knowledge, not the title is key.
What do you think about universities asking applicants to take the UCAT
Hello Sara, I think it is inevitable .
I Discuss it further in this video : th-cam.com/video/qXcUe5Dynyw/w-d-xo.html
When I go to the hospital for any reason, I just want to be examined and diagnosed by the best possible professional in the building which is pretty much always the MD.
They are the most educated and trained and have dedicated their lives to medicine. Personally, that's the person I want looking after me not someone who took a shortcut and is less knowledgeable and skilled in terms of healthcare and medicine. I just don't play or gamble with my health.
Hello Sperg1, I think that a patient has the right to decide on who should treat them, provided they are willing to pay the cost. I think cost is not only monetary, it can be a longer waiting time with the associated sleepless nights for yourself and loved ones.
You are right, physician associates are not Doctors and it is illegal for one to claim to be such without the necessary training or acknowledgement by the GMC. However, physician associates are medical professionals and there are some things our training allows us to safely do under the supervision of doctors.
If the reason that brings you to a hospital can be safely dealt with by a PA under supervision but you decline their involvement in your treatment due to your opposition to the role, you’ll have to wait for a doctor and pay any associated cost till you are seen by one and that is fine. It’s your health and this should be respected.
On the matter of the best possible professional, I think you would agree that consultants in any given department are the best in that speciality. They have the expertise through formal education and years of training. However, I suppose you would not be opposed to a first-year foundation doctor seeing you in a hospital and discussing your situation with a consultant afterwards because the individual is not the best. Differently from a PA, these are both doctors but they are worlds apart.
They play different but important roles. Consultants can't see all the patients and do all the necessary tasks on their own at the current price. They have to delegate some to the juniors within their competence, in the belief that matters will be brought to their attention if needed.
That is the framework in which PAs work.
The physician associate profession is relatively new in the UK and we have not done the work to expect the trust earned by Doctors over centuries, so your apprehensiveness is understandable.
I would most likely be too if I were not one. (possible bias)
I believe there is a lot still to be done and that the current state of affairs leaves questions unanswered. Hopefully one day we will be able to address them and reassure both our Doctor colleagues and the public at large. If on the other hand, the British public deems our skillset unwelcome, we will cross that bridge too.
"USLME" at 4.20..lol