I Tried 100 Audiophile DACs to find out if they are a waste of money
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2023
- From High-End Audiophile DACs to the best affordable DACs from topping, smsl, denafrips and holoaudio AND best tube dacs from doge and audio note that I have tried!
Related Video:
Which DAC should you get? How to choose the best dac for yourself: • Which DAC should you g...
MonAcoustic Platimon Review: • AMT High-End Speakers ...
DACs mentioned in this video:
Denafrips DACs: www.denafrips.com/dac
Audio Note DACs: www.audionote.co.uk/dacs
HoloAudio DACs: www.kitsunehifi.com/product-c...
Topping DACs: apos.audio/collections/brand-...
SMSL DACs: apos.audio/collections/brand-...
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Better speaker stands: solidsteel.it/my-product/ss-7...
acoustic panels I use: ua-acoustics.com/
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my fav hifi tweaks: (Isoacoustics devices) amzn.to/3j5FGvM
#audiophile #homeaudio #hifi - บันเทิง
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*Good Morning on this beautiful Saturday morning! Thank you for stopping by! 3000 likes on this video and I will make a video on TOP 5 DACs out of all the DACs I have tried :)*
Related Video:
Which DAC should you get? How to choose the best dac for yourself: th-cam.com/video/c6ew9P4ETx4/w-d-xo.html
MonAcoustic Platimon Review: th-cam.com/video/OjDA3o7xUcE/w-d-xo.html
DACs mentioned in this video:
Denafrips DACs: www.denafrips.com/dac
Audio Note DACs: www.audionote.co.uk/dacs
HoloAudio DACs: www.kitsunehifi.com/product-category/brands/holo-audio/
Topping DACs: apos.audio/collections/brand-spotlight-topping?sca_ref=459032.WbootYrpIv
SMSL DACs: apos.audio/collections/brand-spotlight-smsl?sca_ref=459032.WbootYrpIv
Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/jayiyagi
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Follow soundstage take 2 reviews: th-cam.com/play/PLPOzvlhtSqn5xdc__ftuSt4Rxy_wm5Af0.html
Speaker stands: amzn.to/3ssRhI3
Better speaker stands: solidsteel.it/my-product/ss-7-vintage-hi-fi-speaker-stands/
acoustic panels I use: ua-acoustics.com/
acoustic curtain: amzn.to/31d1zAM
BDI Cabinet I use: bit.ly/2OJRwQQ
amzn.to/3chBuFZ
other BDI Cabinets: bit.ly/3ctxXV1
amzn.to/30bsUCH
my fav hifi tweaks: (Isoacoustics devices) amzn.to/3j5FGvM
#audiophile #homeaudio #hifi
So, for those who have only experience with Chinese DACs like Topping, SMSL and such, what are those DACs that actually make a significant difference in the sound to be considered an upgrade and be worth the investment?
Hi Jay, So Where does Audio gear Fall when it is Someone that Doesn't have gobs of Money to Spend, And It is nice to have different options but your Speakers Have to be able to Take advantage of what is trying to be offered, So does that mean you have to spend Thousands of Dollars for a Starter system to take advantage of or get the benefits. You can't get Wine from a lemon, no matter how much money you pay for it, Right? I think the same about the term " Audiophile ". I think people use it without thought??? No Sense in Buying capable gear if your ears aren't Capable of actually hearing tones/notes.... Ergo NOT an Audiophile... That person is an Enthusiast, Plain and Simple.
@@robertmacdonald345 As much as I'd love to brag about my hearing capabilities because I am "young," research shows that musical enjoyment and ability discern audio quality does not degrade with hearing loss. Of course, I have friends that do not care for audio quality but I've rarely seen someone not be able to tell the fidelity difference. (it's a matter of appreciation just like how someone may not appreciate a super car or a super watch but some may do) In terms of price, again, it is not about the price and more about how you choose and set them up the best you can. I consider anyone who puts time and effort into picking out and setting up the best they can to enjoy music an audiophile or enthusiast, the title doesn't really matter.
@@Jayiyagi Hi, I agree but I am speaking of the Actual Ability to hear things that Others can't even with good hearing Thus the Term " Audiophile " and again if they Are not in that Catagory, then they are " Enthusiasts " NOT an Actual " Audiophile. Ergo top notch speakers etc, are just a waste of Money, basing it off of that term. There are REAL Audiphiles in This World But I wonder Just how Much different music is being one, So Enthusiast suits me just fine, Even if I was one. Thanks for the reply, and I enjot the Cannel I like The Maple Leaf To
@@robertmacdonald345 go maple leafs! 😂
A friend once told me be careful what your chasing in the audio world the sound you are looking for may leave you bankrupt best advice I ever got
He's right , I blown alot of money on hifi and am not happier for that.
@@erikjohansson1488You are not allone......
Yeah same blown tens of Thousands and still working on my set up
I'm more in the looking for unique advancement stage at a reasonable price.
Exactly , so many people listen to dollar store earbuds and are happy 😂
Great video. The word "bottleneck" is a perfect term. A few years ago I almost sold my speakers seeking audio nirvana. About that time I happened to be in NYC and stopped in at Park Avenue Audio. After describing my equipment, the manager (could have been the owner) of the shop told me I did not need to sell my once beloved Magnepans. And after demoing some speakers he told me he wanted me to listen to something. It was one of the external Chord DACS. I was stunned. The hifi world changed for me at that moment. I could not afford that Chord DAC but did add the Denafrips Ares II DAC (now upgraded to the Pontus II) to my system. The Magnepans were singing in a way I never heard before. Some music listened to a thousand times over the years stirred me emotionally literally bringing tears to my eyes. Before that day at Park Avenue Audio I did not know what an external DAC was.
Thanks for sharing!
Exactly my story, including the upgrade from Ares to Pontus. BTW have you thought of buying the Hermes DDC? It did a lot to my system
Could you share which Chord DAC it was please ?
Which chord dac was it?
Hey Jay….enjoyed your discussion on this. Have been an audiophile for over 50 years now and really appreciate the way you work to help viewers understand the nuances of critical listening. Noted your room is heavily treated and you have learned well in a short amount of time the many issues that confront one in finding the best musicality from their system that they enjoy. Note the they! I have found most equipment inserted into the audio chain makes some level of difference in sound. Great video. I enjoy your youthful exuberance for a wonderful hobby that can enrich one’s life. I started mine when I was 14. 😊
YES , I share your comment ...........and indeed he learned the good way !
i´m a audio equipment enthusiast for more than 50 years and i agree with all that mr.Dean said on his coment
true2 its not buying expensive furnitures, you buy sound, which can be used on various purposes
Really good video, Jay. A lot of folks are going to understand how this stuff works much better now- something I had to figure out for myself over years. You summed it up in 20 mins 🙏
Jay, this is one of the BEST videos that you've ever done. congrats...
This is a great video Jay and actually extends far beyond the realm of comparing DACs. The point of reference that people have when they make statements about x or y piece of equipment is often completely absent in the warring parties of hi-fi internet debates. You are dead right, regarding room acoustics and speaker positioning and the reality that many systems are in modern living spaces which are often pretty compromised acoustic spaces.
This is the most honest explanation i've ever heard about hifi gears. You're absolutely right.
Good discussion on matching components to a system. I wish more reviewers would do stuff like this.
Despite so many broadcasts and feedback on the science, art and experience regarding DAC components & technology, thanks for sharing on yours. It prompted me to side by side, try out 3 of mine that are different in design, topology & price point; for the first time and with 3 very different speakers, amps, headphones, etc. No surprise I experienced exactly what you and others have shared here and doing this has been fun, insightful and sharpened both perception and appreciation.
Appreciate your take on this topic. As a newer audiophile the dac discussion is fascinating. So many choices.
What’s better - a detailed, accurate DAC or a “good sounding” one?
To me, a “musical” good sounding DAC is the goal, though I wouldn’t kick a detailed one out of bed
It's subjective. To some, a detailed and accurate DAC is musical to them.
That's why I like my Cambridge Audio CXN100 over my other Eversolo DM-A6.
Our findings mirror mine as well. I too use a tube dac - AMR DP777 and absolutely adore it for its tone and refinement. We recently had a dac comparison amongst a bunch of friends of around 7 dacs - every single one of them sounded different. There were a bunch of discrete r2r, Philips ladder chips, ess chips, AD ladder chips and each dac sounded very different. Some were loved more than others but none of them were bad. Whoever says dacs don't change the sound of a system is smoking something really horrible.
Agree 100%. Nice choice with the AMR. I bet the DAC comparison day was fun. Love to have been there.
Great video! Glad a few reviewers are yackling this issue of what dac. Thanks Jay!
One of your best videos jay , great lessons for sure
This is by far your best video! Great Job!
Great video Jay. Very well explained how DACs could make a difference and why you might not realize the performance upgrade👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 I’ve heard great things about the Holo Audio DAC. I run the exaSound e62, with Sbooster botw power supply. I Choose that because my audiophile friends landed on it (performance/price) after trying many other choices. Great vid.
Best audio review ever. It’s all about pairing components. If you know how to do it, a small budget can make you very happy
Thank's Jay that really re-enforces the idea that you really need to hear for yourself especially as we all have differing preferences when it comes to what we think is good, The dac I use is focal arche with clear mg headphones mostly, I have however tried attaching it to a naim power amp and really enjoyed the sound which was a significant upgrade from the built in sabre dac on Yamaha receiver that I also own and was previously using as the pre out to the same naim power amp.
GREAT explanation of the synergies of the chain and complexity of subjective sound performance.
Thanks, Jay. Your video is very useful. Keep on creating these informative videos.
I thought you were going to review DACs here but instead I got a good understanding of how DACs work within the parameters of the overall system. Thanks for the perspective.
And as importantly, room treatment. The more I educate myself on room treatment and tackling it DIY, I have noticed a huge difference. Getting those bass pressures and frequency reflections/reverberations tackled ( building quadratic diffusers and frequency absorbers and placement) is critical for good sound. Not easy or cheap, but worth it.
Very true, room treatment is just as important as the equipment that is being used.
Room treatment and speaker placement are everything. My audio recording professor told us years ago, "If you've got a $2000 budget, spend $500 on monitors and $1500 in treatment."
I think Roomacustics is the importantst you have to do. Than a little correction with REW and youre done.
I had the same belife after reading about dacs on different forums. No need to use big money on dacs and you could skip preamp and use the dac instead. So I bought a gustard x16 that was considered an inexpence dac that measured well and hooked it up to my power amp. Then I bougth second hand preamp that was meant for the power amp. Sound got significant better. Then this summer I switched from my old dynaudio speaker to dynaudio HS after demo in shop on expensive naim setup. One ting that struck me was the presentation of the voice that was incredible good. When I listen at the speaker at home it was not on the same level. So I would try to upgrade my dac. I considered the Gustard A26 but it had not tidal connect and I need to import it myself. Then I found used Gold Note DS 10 plus with seperat power supply to same price as Gustard A26, so I bougth that. And yes the gold note was much better than the Gustard 16x that I had before. Now the 3d effect of having the artist in your livingroom was as I heard with the naim setup in the shop, but also more suprisingly the bass was also much better. Now there is a huge prise difference between my old and new dac, but for me it was worth it.
YESSSSSSSSSS! This is what I have been asking for !!! We in here Igayi Clan and thanks Jay!! We wanna know what you think after all these years on all these DACs you've reviewed !!! Youre the man!!!! I know you really cant do apples to apples across all these sets, but we just want to know how you look things since you come into possession of so many DACs. And this will be helpful for us to understand what different Dacs do at various price points (more like, what are you getting for your money, and why--and how you apply it to your system). Also thanks for such a long and thoughtful response to my comment last week!!!
Agreed. After trying several I bought the ANK 4.1x DAC. Uses 4 tubes. Very musical.
Absolutely love you Jay says it like it is without the "bullshit". Kudos!
Obviously there are better DACs to be had but within my budget I am very happy. Adding a Denafrips Ares 12-1 to a Bluesound Node has been a success.
Define better ? It won't have anything to do with money. Maybe a feature !
when I owned Harbeth (relatively rolled off) speakers I didn't notice a huge difference when swapping out an amp or DAC. However, with Klipsch Heritage speakers (lively sounding), every component has a distinct and noticeable character. Also, with Klipsch Heritage speakers, my favorite DAC so far is a Audio Research DAC 8. It has such a meaty, rich sound which is a perfect match for speakers that could otherwise be too bright
Is there something wrong with the dac ? it should just play whatever is in the digital file.
Sorry but to me it sounds like you had really good natural sounding speakers and got artificial not so good speakers. ;) I never understood this Klipsch thing...
Great explanation Jay. Straight forward discussion people should digest before throwing around$$$
Good points have been stated. I have been told we all hear differently and one system can be loved by one and hated by another. Establish your budget, listen to all the reviews and suggestions and just go for it.
So glad you mentioned room acoustics... IMO the most important and overlooked.
This is direct and truthful…spoken with verity! I’ve had the same (very) decent dac for some time now. But whenever I’ve made a change or improvement to my system around it, I unlock more of the nuance and beauty that it very likely has always possessed. Thank you for articulating what so many seem to avoid in this discussion 🙏🏼
Great Job Jay you hit on alot of crucial points of dacs , I been rolling dacs for over 30 years and i will say your digital transport is a huge factor of gettting the best performace out of your dac Jitter and errors are the biggest Evils and EMI 'but i wont ger into that comment would be a mile long !! keep on rolling buddy !
When's he going to send you his speakers two of you ;)
Yes, please make a video of top 5 DACs, including cost. I think it would spur some great discussions.
Your statements make sense and relate to my experiences. I also have to say there are audible differences in different audio drivers or modes especially when there is a certain asio driver made especially for the DAC.
Commented on your IG as well but, long story short, one side of my speaker was connected out of phase due to wrong cable color labeling. Positive is negative and vice versa. And when Denafrips Pontus II + DDC was connected to the system, the holography and sound space immediately expanded. My brain also registered that something was off in one side of the room. I listened then inspected the entire chain from source, then shortly after the wrong mis-labeled speaker cable was found and corrected. Before this I never noticed how off the space was with another DAC. Although I returned the Pontus II after auditioning because I wasn’t a fan of the sound treatment it gave my system (less volume, attack and a soft veil), I was floored by the 3D soundstage and holography. It even helped me realize something was wrong with my system just from sound alone. Amazing stuff.
Difficult topic handled well.
It all matters. I think its easier to get amp/linestage right than speakers or DAC. But given a transparent system where low level information can be heard and appreciated, a DAC makes a massive difference. Sure a $100 DAC does most everything. But moving up the line by orders of magnitude results in a holographic natural sound without any hint of digital fatigue. That is where the money is.
I don't envy consumers making buying decisions. I build my own stuff and as a result can incrementally improve without replacing. My DAC journey took over 10 years. A credible DAC engine is the core, but the sound comes from the power supplies, the clock system, the output stage and the isolation from vibration and EMI. A clock upgrade can be huge. Supercaps in the digital power supplies bring substantial improvements. I love tube output but seek neutral not thick sound. The things I value that should be well done in a high end commercial DAC are:
SOTA clock and FIFO buffer
Oversized individual power supplies for every consumer. At minimum linear power supplies. Batteries and supercaps are great.
Discrete output stage. I like triodes and use choke filtered mono power supplies, but good discrete JFET output buffers can also be fine.
A good grounding scheme.
Isolation from vibration and electronic noise. Particularly isolating the digital parts from the analogue.
I like the sound of an R2R DAC, but this is just personal taste. I also am happy with 44.1 PCM.
When you get it all right it sounds terrific. And the most important thing is well recorded music.
I have owned an SMSL VMV D1 since 2019, back when SMSL, Topping etc. didn't have a bazillion choices at the time. t retailed around $1300. I bought it off Drop for around $800.00. Schiit and Denafrips were the options I considered at that time. They now make a D2 and D3. I am pretty happy. I don't feel the need to upgrade. Sure there are better DACs, but at what price for an upgrade and for how much of a sonic improvement am I getting for that upgrade. I may upgrade at some point but for now I am sitting tight. I would love a newer DAC, but I wish to hear a an automatic upgrade. This, for me, is what is needed to have to spend a lot more. I stress and always will, to each their own, I am in no position to be critical of anyone!!!
Hi Jay- I have a MSB Gryphon system which has really improved since adding a Antipodes K50 server, however my dealer mentioned he had taken on a brand called Ideon a small company based out of Greece after being at the Munich show and said all their products were to quote “ On a new level and I had to hear them. I also recently heard the DCS Bartok Apex which was very good but not any better than my MSB. Anyway replaced my MSB with the Ideon Ion DAC - blown away not only are they insanely transparent but the sound stage increased by at least 30% , along with just sounding so natural and organic it was mind blowing. My dealer has a MSB Reference DAC system and said their Absolute which is almost half the price is vastly superior to it which is quite something. Obviously I’ve ordered the Ideon which is arriving shortly and sold my MSB. The great thing about the brand Ideon is they have products from 3K all the way up to their Absolute range which is unheard in the Audiophile industry, even the lesser models are apparently sublime.
That sounds very interesting
Great review, many thanks! Shout out for a review of the Weiss Dac 204.
Good video and important information. My only comment is to figure out your sound your after and buy appropriately. This all fuels the given idea of buy the speakers first and build the rest appropriately. Thanks Jay!
Very interesting video and enjoyed your thoughts and experiences. I’m wondering if and how the same could apply to streamers? Would love to hear your opinion on this topic. Especially for stand alone streamers without an internal DAC. Provided that one has already decided on their reference external DAC in their system.
I upgraded from a Denafrips Ares II >>> Pontus II 12th w/ an IRIS DDC .... *massive* improvement in sound. That's me, now. Really happy w/ the digital end of my system. I've finally jumped off the DAC purchasing/upgrading merry-go-round Yay!!!
*Now*, it's time for my final upgrade... i.e., changing my fairly expensive integrated to a final pre/power combo w/ at least 2 balanced XLR inputs. Or possibly a Luxman Class A Integrated.
Happy w/ my Amphion Argon 3s standmounts w/ really great spkr. stands, (23kg each), Streamer, CD Transport, T/table, T/table power supply/phonoamp, Hi-Fi racks (x 2), sound treatments in my room, power conditioners (x 2), cables of various types for each format - *and* lastly... a few small, fairly inexpensive little tweaks, e.g. the Furutech NCF Clear Line plug-in adapters.... So *very, very* relieved to be able to watch lots of my favourite audio review channels *now* and *not feel* that "must upgrade twitch" any more... (It's only taken me 42 years to get here - started at age 18...!!!).
Best of luck to everyone! Keep at it, and you'll get 'there'!!
Congratulations. I can relate.
@@user-od9iz9cv1w Thanks! It's really good to be able to just watch all the good review channels, but purely from an entertainment/new information/format point of view... I never thought I'd be able to write that... I'm sure that everyone who's a hi-fi enthusiast/audiophile hopes to get 'there' w/ their system, one day... (Took me 40 + yrs. to get there... What a hobby [addiction?!], eh?!
I owned the Ares 2 for more than 3 years. A friend bought the Pontus 2. He lent it to me and it was an improvement. I then bought the Gustard R26 and didnt like it. I purchased a Venus 2 and didnt like that either. I then bought a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE and liked that better. Someone then told me to try the USB connection and reevaluated the Venus and Spring. This time around the Venus improved immensely and came out on top. I sold the R26 and the Spring out of preference. I was happy with the Venus for over 7 months, until my friend lent me a Terminator 2. The T2 was a revelation. Ive had it for 3 weeks and am about to swap back to the Venus. I know I will have to readjust to the Venus. I hope its not too bad.
And ?
So for your preference, the Terminator 2 > Venus 2 > Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE > Pontus 2 > Gustard R26?
Delusion
Deaf @@reidjames2938
My experience is that upsampling on a DAC itself has inherent problems/limitations even though it makes DACs perform with better measured specs. The issue is that specs are measured in frequency domain with test signals but we can actually hear certain time domain effects (so we aren’t entirely measuring all the important factors). By necessity, DACs are designed to all have low latency so the built in tap filters are necessarily short but with non leaky sharp filters with flat pass band (best spec). However with simple low latency filters there is always a very small consistent pass band ripple. This pass band ripple creates audible pre-echos in the time domain. This means that NOS DACs have some advantages but the highest performance is only available to those using a PC to upsample to high rate DSD like DSD256. Feed a DAC a high rate DSD signal (pre-processed on a high powered PC using powerfully accurate upsampling/filter/modulators) then you will get all the benefits of delta-sigma DACs (best spec) without the time domain issues created by short low latency upsampling filters used in the DAC itself. The problem has been created by industry adherence to frequency domain best measured specs and little regard for time domain (phase and echo issues). Please note an echo is NOT ringing. An echo is a complete reproduction of the entire audio signal at an earlier or later time at a much lower signal level. It is the consequence of the mathematics of consistent sinusoidal passband ripple (typical of all DAC built-in upsampling filters) - a sinusoid in the frequency domain is equivalent to a delta or spike in the time domain - a very low level sinusoid corresponding to a very low level pre and post echo (the post echo from a transient is unlikely to be audible as it is buried in a louder signal but the pre-echo certainly is in a quiet passage followed by a transient) Due to HAAS effect our brain will process any echo within 5 msec as being part of the sound - typically we hear this as a confused less defined stereo image constrained to the speakers and a harsher sound/digital glare.
Woah, actual properly applied maths & physics in audio discussions rather than just "hurr durr frequency response plot good"? Can you head over to AudioScienceReview and set them straight on a few things on my behalf please (I'd do it but I'll insert too much foul language and condescension and get banned)
I remember being under the impression that the Haas effect cutoff was more like 30 milliseconds - I hope so as it was a decently important part of my architectural acoustics & DSP dissertations and they gave me a first on both, so if not then let's keep it on the down low :D
No way. Timing and soundstage? Something is wrong with you. I mean if it isn’t measured by ASR it doesn’t matter. Sarcasm off
If you wait like 10 years to update your DAC, like I did, you will notice a huge difference. I went from a very old Topping D2 DAC, to a SMSL M500, and it blew me away.
You can wait another year, and a dac won't sound any better. They are done.
DAC or not DAC there´s my question ,i have a good cd player all though some albums that i have are very bad sounding compared to the record i bought when it originally came out, no matter if one adds to the cd player an expensive DAC it will never upgrade the bad cd sound, but there are cds with a lot of quality ,i own thousands
Or it was 10 years worth of pent up expectation bias
💯 % right. Gear, room + set up. In my case my hifi is set up in my small living room. But with both heresy iv and KLH model 5 I could clearly hear a difference between amplifiers and DACs. Holo spring 3 KTE is an amazing DAC but I think what we need to learn is that that’s the price it takes for goosebumps hifi. Ultimately I sold the spring 3 and returned to Ares II. Now I have JBL 4309 and now differences are more difficult to hear.
Wow, new to this channel, that was a great video! More of a headphones guy, but you mirrored so much of my personal experiences in this hobby. Sometimes a DAC that measures worse, sounds better, because of the way it matches with the rest of my system. For example if a DAC compresses or "demolishes" the sound stage, it's going to be more difficult for the amp/headphones which are down the chain, to recover it. Thanks for making this video!
Dacs made a difference with my system, I upgraded from a topping E-50 to a denafrips ares 2 and it was better, and there was a firmware upgrade on the denafrips and it was a pretty good diference. That being said, it's overprice. And because I'm addicted to tweaks and upgrades I can't help my self.
Why did you think it was overpriced despite making a difference you liked?
I was the same as you in the late seventies with now called vintage audio. Love the content.
Very well said Jay, you pay attention to details as a scientist for explaining your journey. Synergy is very important for sound system to get you in the lala land...
Hi Jay. Great video as usual. I know you have had praise for Schiit Audio products in the past. Have you tried the Modi+ DAC? I have it in my system and for $99 I think it was one of the best purchases I have ever made. I think it has gone up to $129 since I bought it last year but even at that price I think it is a great bargain. And this DAC can rival others that cost much more. It is just a basic DAC with no bells and whistles but for audio quality it cannot be beat in my opinion.
The Modi is great. Highly recommended.
I also have a Schiit Yggdrasil, and I have no desire to “upgrade.”
I understood you completely, more people need to hear this, too many people like to blame Dacs, amps, speakers, etc. but most the time it because they don’t know how to match up the components for the type of sound they are going for
Thx Jay. I would like to know what your favourite DAC’s are and why?
Thank you for this man!
I have an Yamaha Aventage reciever with a built in DAC sometimes I enjoy using the digital encoding to shape what I’m listening to .
Good review, I like analog sounding dac like the r2r , rega dac r and the Cambridge audio dac magic
Pretty much any DAC is going to nail frequency response which is why people think they sound the same. But if the rest of your system/room is up to snuff you can hear differences in the presentation, detail retrieval etc...
this is bull shit, the only thing it outputs is the frequency response
Jay, why not listen on headphones to eliminate room problems?
Or get some Larsen speakers
Great article Jay
Thanks for the video review. How about streamer? Did different streamer makes a differences? Thanks!
Would love to hear where "preamps" fall within that scale of making a difference in the system.
My DAC just so happens to be the most expensive component in my system. I didn't intend that necessarily, it just happened that way. But man....the improvements that DACs made as I when up the chain is undeniable.
Great video and thoughts Jay.
That’s actually recommended by many people actually. It’s the source. Speakers can’t put out what the source doesn’t give them.
I’m thinking of doing a serious DAC upgrade soon myself. What did you get, and are you happy with it? ✌️
What Music Server do you use? My Music Server is worth WAY more than my DAC...and I think I get a better outcome that way than the reverse
My DAC that I'm using now is a Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE. I "upgraded" from a Denafrips Venus 2.
Both are great DACs....and I guess you could say that one isn't an all-out winner, it just depends on what your looking for.
@@tfj100I use Roon on a dedicated desktop. Streaming Tidal and Qobuz with a handful of downloaded songs. Roon sends the files to Hqplayer for upsampling to DSD512 and running a convolution file created in REW.
I am 100% digital.... That's why I got a good amount going on. But I've never been happier with the sound I'm getting.
Don't waste your money on DACs, spend it on the best measuring speakers you can afford. That will make the biggest difference.
Great explanation👍. This could be valid one also for the interconnet cables at least. But prerequisites must be met.
My system lacked sound-stage and it took some time for me to figure out that the root cause was the DAC. One day my local dealer told me to try out another dac and gave me an R2R ladder dac to try out for 2 weeks. It took 15 minutes for me to be enthusiastic since what I was missing before was suddenly there.
Room acoustics + speaker placement is key. Yes.
You are right. Your words are wisdom.
I appreciated your approach and view on this. I have been through more than six DACs in the past few years and I can say I clearly hear a difference in the sound after a certain point. I am a more budget audiophile and all of them were under 2k. I know I will get blasted by the measurement believers but I can tell the difference and that is all that matters to me.
fuck the measurement believers the best measurement tools are your ears. besides if they all sound the same we wouldn't be spending so fucking much
Nice video. But Interesting: if you want warm vintage sound, what you must change in system with neutral power amp and bright speakers: preamp or dac? Or both?
My DAC journey started with a Bel Canto dac 3 which was a nice thing then changed to Meridian 808v3 cd dac which had the high end clarity and soundstage i was looking for .Then upgraded the v3 to v6 which was even better . I then sold the V6 because of cd drive issues . I then bought a pro-ject cd box rs2 transport with a Dac box rs2 because they were a match set . A little disapointed after the excellent Meridian v6 I found a used Weiss fire wire dac202... WOW this sounds so punchy natural and analogue . Its not only a great sounding Dac but also a great preamp/headphone amplifier my Sennheiser HD 650 never sounded so good . Now i`m wondering how good the newer Weiss 501 can be ?
Once I got the PS Audio DSJ DAC, I stopped there and now use different wires to flavor the sound.
A non British DAC with excellent PRAT!
You explained this very well. I'm using an Denon DRA-800H AVR and a Emotiva BasX A2 power amp. Using Preouts on Zone 2 (on AVR no other preouts) into the BasX. One thing I noticed is the sound is flat compared to speakers connected to the AVR (DRA-800H). Is this because the preout cleans up any sound processing that happens within the receiver like the Preout is not full range..? If so how can I go about getting that big sound into my power amp? Do I need a DAC in between the Preout on the AVR and the power amp? Thanks to you or anyone who can help answer my q's.
Nice work Jay.
Thanks for the upload❤ my curent goal is to set clear natural sound with amp and speakers so the harmonics and music will make a big stage. Not that blown up big, but coherent. Than a dac that makes a little sound color and matching my need of emotion and joyment.
I'd add one small detail to this fantastic video. I mean, I had a chance to listen to about a dozen of different DAC's on my home system (so the speaker and amplifier remained the same) and in my opinion there is a difference between chips used by DAC's manufacturers which contribute to the sound signature DAC is producing. I found Burr Brown based to be more flat and neutral and those based on ESS Sabre a bit wormer sounding. Unfortunately I have not tried AKM, Cirrus Logic, Texas Instruments or Wolfson based hardware to fully confirm my thoughts but at least for now, I'm enjoy'ing ESS based DAC a tad more...
That's more likely the implementation of the specific dac. ESS DACs have a reputation for glare, which would never be classed as warm. Burr Brown, however, have always been firmly in the musical, warm camp. So, it's more likely the supporting analogue components giving the sound signature you're describing, than the chips themselves.
For me dacs make as much difference as phono cartridges in analogue audio. I can't afford crazy expensive ones but even the entry level Denafrips Ares II sounds totally different from the Topping E50 in my modest system.
Do a double blind test: betcha fail!
@@2013brzsubaru I won't call it a day-and-night difference but it's for sure mid-afternoon vs early evening.
Ditto that room treatment definitely comes before dac upgrades! At least cover up primary reflections. Love that that’s being mentioned. How are you supposed to hear digital artifacts through all the comb filtering…
Great review. I would love your professional opinion.. what type of Dac complements the sound characteristics of the Maggie LRS+? I love the idea of the analog sounding Dac but I don’t want to lose 3d holographic detail.
The Audio note was $1800 and now, at least according to my closest dealer, is $2200. You also have to have it built to order. So you can’t really return it if you don’t like it.
That said, Audio Note DACs only play redbook. So if your streaming all those hi-res files are either downsampled or you have to find the redbook version. If you ask Audio Note if the redbook stream sounds better than the hi-res stream thay say they don’t like the sound of streams. They expect you to just use CDs. Which is a complete cop out answer. Who would be satisfied with this answer? It’s like a mechanic telling you to get rid of your automatic transmission and start driving a stick. No one is going to buy 19000 CDs.
So unfortunately, it’s reviewers like you that are left to offer a more realistic answer to this redbook design philosophy.
Thanks for the video- it’s stuff that needed to be said.
yes I am also unhappy with Audio Note offering only coax in the DAC5 while they offer usb on the lower line 0.1x DAC. It makes zero sense. But I like the sound... and do understand where they are coming from as their idea is that anything done to the signal path is bad and less is more... BUT I can't help but feel like this is a little TOO less in 2023
Chord mojo 2 has been life changing. I have it so I can quickly connect to my home system and then disconnect to take on the go. Loving the lossless eq and the sound quality is excellent. I’m good until mojo 3 comes out.
I have very similar experience and use case with my Mojo 2. It is by far the most expensive component in my system but when I first connected it made me say “whoa, ok wow, now i get it”.
I got a mojo 2, it never gets used. Topping and smsl make far better performing dac. Now sabaj are also beating them. It's in the numbers.
@@r423sdex it's not
@@r423sdexhad mojo then topping, went back to mojo 2 and the sound quality is incredible coupled with lossless EQ!
Perfect analysis, could you explain how do you use your DAC ? Connected to a PC, a streamer or used to enhance a CD transport ? I had the case you are speaking, my DAC is analytic and I used it with my CD player in transport configuration, I didn't like what I eard, cause the integrated DAC of my CD player was less analytical and smoother. But connected to a PC I like my DAC for what it gives ...).
I had the PSAUDIO MK2 and then got a Mola Mola Tambaqui.
I thought it a fairly significant upgrade. Each user would need to decide if it worth the extra $$$
He Jay, I always watch your reviews❤❤
What is your recommendation for Focal Kanta2 + Hegel H390? Terminator or Holo Audio or do you have any other recommendation.
input is the key, source quality, then the output speakers/headphones
Great video.
Please make video for optimal setup for stereo
Many brands try to avoid deliberate "coloring" during the D/A process (though as Jay mentioned, a few have a bit of different philosophy). And most tend to agree that matters like time domain and jitters are key areas to control. However, it is not sure if there is a truly "neutral" DAC as things have already been changed at recording from analog to digital signals, and even the ultra highend DACs need to make tradeoffs in filtering and waveform sharpness etc...
Jay, great analysis - thank you! I would add two more important considerations when discussing and comparing DACs. One is individual ability to hear. Our ability to hear details, frequencies, ect vary and is limited based on age or other individual factors. Audiologists report that due to massive headphones popularity and listening on too high volumes people's hearing has deteriorated over time in last 20 years. So we have individual hearing "celling" - all of us. I may not be able to hear details that you can, or vice versa. So unfortunately, our ears may be the biggest bottleneck. Exploring DACs that can perform above your hearing ability may be pointless. Sorry! Another factor is that many DACs are high quality but "dumb", meaning they are what they are and you have no, or limited control what they can do and how they sound. Example: higher end Lampizator tube DACs. Input, output and ON/Off switch, that is it. On the other hand, there are DACs that offer wide spectrum of adjustments that you can make with the soundstage, tonal balance, EQ, ect. For example, RME ADI-2, T+A DAC 200 or Weiss DAC 501 offer lots of functions that may improve your system synergy or deliver your individual sound preferences.
The RME ADI-2 line has 4 units to chose from. I have the ADI-2 PRO FS R BE and love it. Others have told me it was to dry yet Inlove it, so for me it is great and I respect them and others as well to like or not like it.
Not really, details etc are not weak sine waves hidden somewhere. When you start to listen to the music and when it sounds best then you notice the big differences.
It’s refreshing to hear a young man with good ears talking hifi . Instead of old men with limited hearing with so called ” trained ears” talking rubbish .
I agree with a lot of what you said. However I think budget DACs have got better and better in the last 10 years or more. There seems to be a point that comes very easily these days when the DAC is not a bottleneck. In the 90's or early 00's not so much!
As I get more into the hobby, I've found that almost everything can make a difference, even cables. I've also found those that take the time to say otherwise are almost always amatures in the hobby with little experience with products.
@@mopnem It you pet the cables and recite a mantra to them they will sound even better.
I have a $60 dongle dac that sounds better than my $200 desktop dac. The passthrough cable that came free with my phone sounds better than both but doesn't enough volume. Using Arya planar headphones.
@mopnem The fact that you are insulting people and you don't even know how to spell the word "amateur" nullifies your argument and makes you appear to be an ignorant blowhard.
Would be nice to get your review of the Cen Grand, especially compared to Holo and Terminator.
Thank you for this wonderful live session. Lots of things to know. Which is better ONKYO TX NR 6100 or ONKYO TX NR 7100 Which Denon model can be compared or better than ONKYO TX NR 6100 , ONKYO TX NR 7100 . Suggest any other brands with the same features or better than them. The budget remains the same or within the same range.
Thank you in advance.
useful video, I am definitely becoming a fan of R2R DACs.
I think DACs affect the sound just as much as an amp. But, the amp depends on the speakers/headphones so much, that it could have a bigger effect at times.
Also, acoustics.
The Gustard r26 was a big upgrade over the topping e50. But the R26 is a fully discrete r2r DAC.
Do you think that most integrated amplifiers have their DACs bottleneck-ing their amplifier part and the speakers? From my experience, there was a noticeable (but small) difference hooking up just a mid-tier (max $400) DAC to a $1300 Cambridge integrated amplifier.
Also, what price ranges of DACs, amplifiers and speakers do you think we should combine for optimal synergy, if you think you can make such a conclusion? Of course you said it's not about the price, but if we ignore the characteristics/coloration of them, purely on sound quality?
Recently trying to upgrade my system by 'improving' upon my Ayon DAC, I learned a few things. One, the 'state of the art' has managed to improve smoothness and reduce digital glare but still sounds mostly sterile. I still can't bear listening to music except through a DAC with a tube output stage. I tried the Chord Qutest, the SMSL D400 and the ADI-2 and while all perhaps had the edge in transparency and sheer resolution, I was left wanting. I even brought a £140 Chinese rip-off DAC from Ebay which features an R2R chipset and a copy of an Audio Note design of tube output and it beat all three of those DACs and got close to my 10 year old Ayon. Secondly, the transport matters too and might be a better path to success. I switched from an Audiolab 6000CDT to the 9000 and was surprised at the musical improvements. I gained a lot of the kind of 'maturity' I was hoping for from a better DAC; better coherence, organization and placement of instruments, weightier, richer tones and more solidity. All from a number cruncher! It was like upgrading a power amp. Anyway, my twopence...
thanks for sharing!
Thanks Jay, not very straightforwards in this case. I will rewind a few times and listen again, what you say rings true to me. In my very limited experience with 1500€-2500€ DACs I felt that they sounded very similar, except for one that had a tube in the circuit. Spending 2k€ or more would represent a big money investment for me, so I really do not want to get it wrong. To summarise then, I really need to try before I buy, either in a shop, or via a home trial via the post.
I own an EAR Yoshino (Tim de Paravicini) valve DAC. It is very good and really helps to make the sound be more analogue. I don't know if you've ever tried one.
Nice one Jay, I have a warm speaker+Amp combination and Topping D90SE brings that good balance, but I would like to upgrade going the same direction, what would you suggest?