I am so happy with constant DAC reviews by all the reviewers on TH-cam. Every week that is all you guys talk about (which I just need, in my search for a DAC.
Nice one, Randy. Some great DACs there. I've tried a few but the most open, detailed and non-fatiguing of the ones I've tried is the humble little SMSL SU-1. If you don't need volume control, filters, balanced outputs, built-in EQ or bluetooth in your DAC, I honestly think this unit is all you need for superb sound quality. Power your SU-1 and a WiiM mini using the two 5v 1A USB outputs from a Topping P50 linear power supply and you've got yourself a fantastic-sounding hi-res streamer for less than 300 British pounds.
I’ve given up the DAC chase …I’ve settled on the Denafrips Ares 12-1 ..and I don’t think I’ll be in the market further some time to come . Great video 👍
Same, went through over 25.000$ worth of DACs. Ares 2 was long time the one. Then i found used ifi dsd pro for 1000$. That was it, dac wont get better. Only if i go for 10.000$ but even then the change wont be over 5% beter with used empyrean headphones for 1000$. The set is ready. 😂😂 Mostly for rest of my life...
I was not that crazy about the Geshelli Labs Ak4493 J2. Not much bass. Love the Dayzee. Just as you say, big airy presentation, sounds great, great bass. Love that all outputs are active simultaneously. Only need to switch input.
@@RamisDad How would using the Pro be an upgrade over a Mini if I’m using a separate dac? The Pro and the Mini both have the same dac chip any way. The Pro Plus would be an upgrade but it has the same AKM chip as the SMSL.
@@jp93309 according to Hans Beekhuyzen (sp?) , digital is essentially a square wave analog signal and therefore subject to degradation. As you pay more, you typically get better digital out signals based on the device and price you pay. He noted an improvement in the quality of the digital stream coming from the plus compared to the mini.
@@jp93309 the digital out is higher quality on the pro (same board as pro plus) compared to the mini, producing higher quality analog square waves (what you think of as digital)
@@jp93309 Apparently the WiiM mini sounds more closed in and muddy compared to WiiM pro or Pro+ directly. Several creators have videos on it. Apparently this is due to it having a dual core processor instead of quad core and less ram. You also get room correction. Personally though, I changed to WiiM pro from mini, I never got to AB test, but listening separately I can’t tell much difference. Also, the room correction EQs are different evertime I use it and it sounds noticeably worse than with no EQ. I also miss the smaller form factor of the mini. It does have better signal though and drops out a lot less than the mini did. Overall if your happy with the mini I wouldn’t worry about it, but it could be a way to increase performance if your not happy with the mini.
Nice list Randy, thanks. It was your advice that convinced me to get the SU-1 and since that first one I've bought a few more for my sons and even my 80yr old dad. Appreciate the work you do, sir.
Thanks for another great video, Randy! On your recommendation, I added an SMSL SU-1 as a external DAC to the streamer used as part of my home stereo. I noticed an immediate improvement over the DAC built into the streamer. Even my wife was able to detect the improvement. I later upgraded to the Schiit Modi 3E, and then to the Schiit Modi Multibit 2. These were marginal improvements, but still noticeable. As I upgraded my DAC, I passed on the SMSL SU-1 and the Schiit Modi 3E to me children for them to enjoy streaming even more. Keep up the greta work. Your channel is the first I turn to for HIFI reviews!
Just got my Geshelli Labs Dayzee in all acrylic with standard OP amps. It sounds incredible. It's hooked up to a McIntosh MA6450 driving Magnepan 1.6qr speakers. I think I'm pretty much done building my rig. Don't feel the need to change anything at this point.
@@j-rod6420 it replaced a Geshelli Labs JNOG 2 socketed with Sparkos on the unbalanced outs. It is an outstanding DAC. I was very happy with it. I’m going to use it with my headphone rig in another room. I also have Schitt Bifrost. It is also very good. Dayzee has much better resolution. The imaging is also more precise.
How much is the Dayzee? The website doesn’t even say it. So I’m guessing it’s at least $1k. And gets higher from there depending on op amps etc.. I’m pretty happy with my Mojo 2, I’m just curious. I also keep a Topping E70 at my listening station just for something stationary and it’s surprisingly good, Topping is beginning to make some good stuff. I do fear any issues tho considering the hell that process entails. The A70pro amp is about as good as it gets imo, man when I connect the Mojo to that? It’s an emotional experience sometimes… I’m pretty sure my next jump will be at least a Qutest. But the dayzee is intriguing…
@@khalbrando2990 mine was $1200 before shipping and taxes. It is in all clear plexiglass and standard op amps. Wood case is at least $100 more. There are a few other case options and op amp upgrades for extra cost. The Dayzee is made to order and you’ll be communicating with Sherri, one of the owners. She is great and I’m amazed that she personally answers your emails. If you do inquire about the Dayzee she will give you all of the info and options available. I received my Dayzee in about 3 weeks.
Thank you as always,my friend, for your information and perspectives. DAC, overload right now, but I do have a FiiO K11 R2R arriving soon, to see if I need to change anything. My Loxjie D40Pro, is performing very well and also as a headphone amp, but the FiiO may become my 'gaming' DAC. Take care and all the best.
I’m very curious as to how the FiiO K-11 R2R DAC holds up against the other DACs in this video. I’m intrigued by a >$200 Ladder DAC compared with other DACs in this price range.
My experience.... had schiit modi and modius, was alright until modius stopped working... bought smsl su1 as a temp dac but was completely surprised by not only the clarity and detail, but packed more dynamic punch with kick drums and such than the Schiit products.... Recently got the Geshelli with Sparkos.... and wow, complete drastic improvements in every way... especially with my svs subwoofers, really low sub 40hrz was muddy with SMSL su1, but the Geshelli with Sparkos can tell different notes in this range, am completely amazed at the drastic improvements of the Geshelli J2 that I believe it is end game for me....
Agree with everything you said, not that it matters what I think. The difference between a decently implemented $100 DAC and a $10k DAC is 0 to 20% max DACs just do their DACing real good at all price points If you have the money why not spend $10k or more on a DAC Will add that, in my opinion, Denafrips did Alvin aka Vinshine dirty, so Denafrips never that for me. Alvin built that brand and then they cut him out, their choice, but as you pointed out, the price stayed at a distributor level. In the R2R realm the Musician Draco can be purchased for $675 and is 100% worth checking out For $1k to $1,200, the Holo Cyan 2 or the Musician Pegasus get better reviews than the Denafrips equivalent price point.
I agree. This is mostly nonsense. It's like super expensive CD/DVD/BluRay players. After about $250 you're paying for name, bells and whistles, more mostly redundant features. The video and/or audio quality difference is minimal and in many cases non existent if you already have high quality speakers. If not ,rather than throwing away cash on an expensive DAC, buy better speakers and improve ALL of you audio. I'm almost finished building a house and getting a really nice new Onkyo A/V receiver to replace the ancient one I'm currently using. I have all my CDs and DVDs on a USB drive and I'm going to run the audio out into my vintage receiver, either optical or HDMI converter, which will give me a new A/V receiver for movies and a better DAC and streamer than all but the high end streamers and DACs with killer remote and every extra feature you could want for a significantly better bang for the buck by every metric. I already use separate speakers for TV/Movies and audio. But I might get another pair of killer speakers with a different audio profile. Everyone knows a decent pair of headphones kills all but the most expensive speakers. Same concept. Above a certain threshold money doesn't matter unless we're talking a LOT of money. FU Money. This holds true even with income and net worth.
I found a ToneWinner AD-1PRE+ DAC/Preamp for $1150 delivered. My buddy Ed bought one too, the black one, and is using it in his main system... We have thrown everything in our arsenal at the ToneWinner DAC, from Bel Canto, Denafrips, PS Audio, GD Audio and several others. I do not even find the need to use tone controls with this DAC. I have no clue what the folks at ToneWinner did, but they nailed it. It almost sounds like they did some DSP work internally, but there is no evidence of that. It is not perfect, but the sound it produces is going to be very difficult to beat. It has a natural sound to it, incredible instrument separation, and focus. It is easy to place instruments, singers, etc. Everything in the recording is left intact, no sharpness, no edginess, etc... They nailed it. I thought nothing would replace my Venus II 12th... And it walked all over the $6000 PS Audio DirectStream. The ToneWinner is worth a look folks.
For excellent music, add a lossless source like Apple Music lossless, linear power supply for Eversolo, external DDC Denafrips Iris 12th, external DAC Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1, IsoAcoustics pucks, Cardas Parsec cables, iFi Supanova power cable. To step up from above, add great amps (NAD C298, Parasound 2125v2), preamp, matching LCR speakers (e.g., GoldenEar BRX), and you're done.
Bought a Denafrips 12th-1 yesterday from a local audio shop. Definitely a major upgrade from my SMSL SU-9n, JDS Labs Atom 2 DAC, Topping E50, and iFi Micro iDSD Signature. A DAC that will last for several years.
I like my Denafrips Enyo 15th but customer service for repairs has been horrible. One of my outputs is not working and looks like I will be responsible for repairs even though it's under warranty. I would buy Geshelli if I could return this.
I got a Matrix Mini i pro (2015) at the start of the year. It only cost $200 used and I love it to pieces! It doesn't have all the streaming crap from the newer models of mini i but it is a superb DAC.
Outstanding as always Randy. DENAFRIPS changed their entire lineup recently but I can highly recommend the Enyo 15TH. It's only $700 and has an I2S input. I really like how it sounds my system. Thank you and keep up the great work.
@@markovlasic1978 can get some really good speakers in that price range. I try to keep equipment relative to each other. Wouldn’t want 5000$ speakers on a cheap AVR. Speakers definitely most important part of the system but you will never get what you’re paying for without some decent kit in the front end. Was looking at upgrading speakers then I started buying separates now my speakers have plenty of what I want and im satisfied Went separates mainly because I couldn’t afford all in one I wanted in a single purchase. lol.
The second-best DAC I've ever heard in my life is the DAC inside the SMSL AO-300 that Randy sorta recommended (by recommending the AN200), and I couldn't be happier. (The best-ever is the DAC inside the Arcam FMJ CD23T.)
I have a Yamaha A-S301 integrated amp. What kind of DAC would I need to get a noticeably better sound (for CDs played by a Yamaha CD player) than using the internal DAC in the A-S301? Thanks in advance.
RCA out of the CD = you are using the dac in the CD. Optical or coax out of the CD = you are using the dac in the A-S301. I think that the Schitt Modi Multibit is a really nice and affordable dac, but it all comes down to taste.
Ive been an audiophile for over 40 years (If by audiophile it means music enthusiast, spending money on Hi-Fi and always experimenting to get an even better musical experience) I have been reading reviews, discussing and debating Hi-Fi for what seems like a life time. One thing so sadly missing is decent descriptions and even I need definitions. All these reviews seem to mention a bit of image depth (Erm I get this factually but this for me is of marginal interest) and 'AIR' - what does this mean ? is air a spatially wide and deep image, is it a 'light', 'lean' and somewhat 'hollow' sound, what is air !! What I look for and listen for is tonal density and tonal colour - Do instruments and voices have realistic tonality and sound like real things, do they have the appropriate solidity and density, some DACs for me are light and hollow (A lot of ESS chip based implementations seem to err this way) this isnt realistic and isnt 'neutral'. Every DAC should have a sufficient degree of 'neutrality' so that's another empty word for me. It sounds balanced means very little, in actual fact when I hear Neutral I think of 'uninspiring' and 'flat', I want to know how articulate, weighty the bass sounds, bass isnt 'empty', thin and lean in real life so for me this is important. I also want to know how it manages macro and Micro dynamics, how it appears to deal with timing and transients, I want more information on how the DACs compare. More 'air' means nothing to me. I think you have a great opportunity to define what descriptions mean to you so they can be properly interpreted and also add more facets to the sound. Dynamics, tonality, solidity, timing, clarity, body, imaging - width, depth, height. The 'in the room' quality, how believable etc. Sorry to rant but I am looking for a number of affordable £500 DACs in a digital out multichannel system and I have no clue which DACs might be of interest to be honest. I'd trade the last bit of resolution for body and weight. I'd trade 'pin point' imaging for dynamics and so on without any insight I simply don't know which ones I would like. This isnt a preference for a sound, it's a tolerance for what you have to compromise as nothing is perfect ! A lot of inexperienced audiophiles seem to think 'detail' is resolution. I remember when 'crisp' became an over used word along with 'clean', you can guess what these meant but a definition would be a good start. I interpret 'crisp' as light and lean as a lot of speakers described as 'crisp' were lacking in bass and so on.
Can confirm that Ares II is insanely good, but the price is annoying. I got it for 700 or so, with no TAX from Vinshine in 2021, now it's 1200+21% tax here in EU, which is just ridiculous, that the price to customer is now like 2.5x, 3 years later.
I have the RME ADI-2 PRO FS R BE not the dac version and two Schiit Gungnir as well as a Modius. The RME gets used the most and sounds fantastic. Have not had to adjust any of the settings, nice having all the options though. Dac's are mostly sideways moves not huge leaps forward although the more you spend the better they do get. Good video Randy yet you stopped at a few grand lol.
I'm thinking of upgrading my Topping E30 V1 to something better. Your videos are informative but consider mentioning if the DACs you talk about are synchronous or asynchronous as the latter is much better and a spec I want. Thank you.
@BoRerunn Thank you again for your setup. Mine was connected via USB, to Marantz AV8801 to several MA500 amps to my SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers, AR 318 PS towers, and Elac 1010 Sub.
Enjoy your channel. I’m considering 5 DACs under $1500 - Geshelli Daysee, Holo Cyan 2, Geshelli J3 Pro w/large sparkos op amps, Denefrips Ares 15 (other reviewers rate it much better than Ares 12), and Orchard audio Pecan Pi. Geshelli products have been covered well on your channel, but would love to get your opinion on the others.
XDA-2 differential reference is still my main DAC. Would love an XDA-3 but at over 3x the cost of the XDA-2, I just can't imagine that much sonic improvement for the money.
Sadly the SMSL M200 is no longer manufactured. However, it has been my computer sound system controller for many years. I won't replace it, because it works that well.
A great summary. There is one important omission in regards to some of these DACs in regards to power supplies. Most of these DACs have built in power supplies. The SMSL SU-1 does not have a built in power supply and therefore can have a variation in sound quality depending on the quality of power supply. The difference between a standard noisy phone charger versus something like an ifi ipower2 could possibly have a dramatic effect. Cough
Randy - per @0robbi0's comment - if you could help sort out why a Denafrips Enyo is $700 and an Ares is $1200 and whether the difference is worth it, that would be helpful.
This was good, I am surprised the Eversolo Z8 didn't make it on the list. I did try the SU-1, but it seems that the DAC in my CD player is better than that one. I don't think I would fair much better with a $300 either. Sadly as much as it hurts my wallet to say, I am looking in the $600 range. The Z8 is one of the ones on my list, but so is the Geshelli J2 with the 4499 chipset, and also the Denafrips Enyo (formally the Ares II). I definitely don't want to spend more than that. I would try the Geshelli first, but the problem is that there is a wait time and if I don't like it, they charge a restocking fee. I can get the Z8 and the Denafrips from Amazon. The question is, which of those three sound the best? @Randy. Thank you for reviewing the Wiim Ultra!
Am looking to get my first dac and am struggling to choose without hearing it. I think I want an R2R. I have a Marantz 2325 and Bose 901s series II which I've had since 1976. I think two good options, according to ChatGPT, are the Denafrips Ares ii or Schiit Bitfrost 2/64. I'm thinking the Denafrips might be a better choice but the Schiit is upgradable. I listen to classical and pop rock. Any thoughts?
I just connected an SMSL-SU1 to my Apple TV via the optical cable, connected to my Pioneer VSX-824. I noticed that when changing the audio source from the HDMI input (Apple TV) to analog input (Apple TV through the SMSL DAC) the volume drops by 5 to 8 decibels. Is this normal?
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I have SMSL SU-9n but it's driving only my sub. Soundstage was noticeably flatter than Benchmark 3B or Schitt Yggrdrasil. It also has an unnatural sheen over the music that I don't notice if I relegate it to bass duty. My pick between $500 and $1000 is Schitt Bifrost. Yggy has best 3D soundstage and more natural timbre than SU-9 or Benchmark. Yggy resolution not ahead of Benchmark. $500 DAC resolution close to Benchmark, but not soundstage.
I have been watching all of your videos on streaming and dacs. Do you have any experience with the Denafrips Enyo? It is less money than the Ares and seems similarly equipped. I have a Marantz 2325 and Bose 901s Series II that I bought in the 70s. I am looking for a dac that I can hook up to the Wiim Ultra.
Great channel and content! Can you make a video on the best BT DAC's please! I currently use a usb Dragonfly Black wired to my AirPods Max headphones. I want to cut the cord!!
Anyone looking at the fiio k11 r2r dac headphone amp. One of if not the cheapest R2R dac soon to be available! I really want the cheap audio man's opinion on such a product!
My dac came with the motherboard. Throughout my PC building years, most DACs (that come with the system) are the same. But most of my audio-consuming experiences have come from PCs. What I like to do is change up my speakers. The living room ones go to the basement, and the basement to the back room. Question... Am I the only one, or is this behavior normal? 🤔
Hoping at some point you'll get a chance to try out the Holo Audio Cyan 2. And it's too bad Alvin @ Vinshine will no longer be distributing Denafrips. He is great to deal with.
I love your materials and thank you for them :) Greetings from Poland :) Unfortunately, some of the equipment you recommended is not available in Poland. I'm looking for active speakers for myself to work with my computer and listen to music from Tidal and with the ability to quickly hook up to the TV during long weekend movie sessions. Currently, in theory, the best for me are the active Edifier S2000MKIII. In Poland they cost about $380. However, I'm having trouble finding a cool DAC/AMP or DAC+AMP that I can put on my computer desk. At my computer and with my phone, I use Edifier WH950NB headphones. Could you recommend a DAC/AMP or DAC+AMP at about the price of a Topping D50iii that will handle such a setup ? Or maybe at this price you can have a better sounding set and equally comfortable to use. I don't care about wireless services like WiFi or bluetooth.
I have heard (read) that most DACs are difficult to tell the difference between. I have a WiiM Pro streamer. I purchased a SMSL SU-1 (partly based on your review) to see if I could hear the difference, and I cannot. If you had to suggest the least expensive DAC that a person could easily hear the difference on (above a WiiM Pro,/SU-1) what would it be? The downstream electronics do not have balanced inputs (Old school Mac gear).
Wouldn’t this video be just a bit early in 2024 with the release of the Wiim ultra? It will likely have the sound quality of the Wiim pro or better, the led touch screen, and it’s super friendly and powerful operating system all at $320. And are you not a fan at all of the Evo A6 standard or master class?
@@Hirnlego999 - It is, but its a DAC/AMP combo. I had one but it had QC problems, so I returned it. I don't remember the sound. But I remember liking the E50 better. Smoother/Rounder. I have a DL200 (& DL300) now. Another great deal. There are so many good options at ~$200.
@@JohnSmith-oe4bw "It is, but its a DAC/AMP combo" That's what I prefer. I've had Topping E70 and SMSL C200 and can't hear a difference between them. The reason I usually recommend SMSL is because the remote is a bit more responsive but on the other hand SMSL are poorer with firmware updates, and if you find them on for instance ASR forum it's more difficult to update.
A change to tube amplifiers would be a welcome change, some great kit out there right now .. I have 5 dacs and use 2 there is zero market for resale ..
Great Review Randy! It's hard Not to find value at any price point. I know this as I own the SU-1, the Modi Multi, and a pair of the J2's. Each have a different role, and they all sound great!
I have family in Kent, it’s a nice county! I would never be able to afford the Qutest and my system is too low budget for it. I bet it sounds awesome though! I just got the Mojo2 for my new EDIFIER S3000PROMKII active speaker system, and I’m loving it. Lots of small changes are adding up to a big difference. My main reasons for buying mojo 2 where it has an awesome reputation, new uk price fit with my systems budget, the form factor fit my systems aesthetic, and it’s an FPGA chip a different technology to what I had before. My other Dac has a sigma delta chip from burr brown so the difference is very noticeable! All the best from Hampshire!
Hey btw love your channel, as well as your watch channel! I have a question on how to add a DAC to my current setup which is a Project Debut Carbon Evo and Totem Kin play speakers.. I would like to add a Dac from my computer ( iMac) to the system as well or is that just silly.
Iam currently running a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 on an Aiyima A07 Pro (in total I payed 260€). Is it worth adding a Wiim Pro and a Smsl Su1 for another 180€?
Please review the Fiio K11 R2R dac!
I am so happy with constant DAC reviews by all the reviewers on TH-cam. Every week that is all you guys talk about (which I just need, in my search for a DAC.
Nice one, Randy. Some great DACs there. I've tried a few but the most open, detailed and non-fatiguing of the ones I've tried is the humble little SMSL SU-1. If you don't need volume control, filters, balanced outputs, built-in EQ or bluetooth in your DAC, I honestly think this unit is all you need for superb sound quality. Power your SU-1 and a WiiM mini using the two 5v 1A USB outputs from a Topping P50 linear power supply and you've got yourself a fantastic-sounding hi-res streamer for less than 300 British pounds.
I’ve given up the DAC chase …I’ve settled on the Denafrips Ares 12-1 ..and I don’t think I’ll be in the market further some time to come .
Great video 👍
Now you have Ares 15th :7
I just started. So far not good.
Same, went through over 25.000$ worth of DACs. Ares 2 was long time the one. Then i found used ifi dsd pro for 1000$. That was it, dac wont get better. Only if i go for 10.000$ but even then the change wont be over 5% beter with used empyrean headphones for 1000$. The set is ready. 😂😂 Mostly for rest of my life...
I was not that crazy about the Geshelli Labs Ak4493 J2. Not much bass. Love the Dayzee. Just as you say, big airy presentation, sounds great, great bass. Love that all outputs are active simultaneously. Only need to switch input.
If you are afraid of the SMSL/Topping stuff... Geshelli and Schiit offer the Best Bang for the Buck Products imo
Got an smsl su-1 for my wiim mini and a denon dvd player. Excellent clarity and nice instrument separation. Get one just for fun.
Probably worth the upgrade in sound just to upgrade from the mini to the Wiim pro. Food for thought 👍🏼
@@RamisDad How would using the Pro be an upgrade over a Mini if I’m using a separate dac? The Pro and the Mini both have the same dac chip any way. The Pro Plus would be an upgrade but it has the same AKM chip as the SMSL.
@@jp93309 according to Hans Beekhuyzen (sp?) , digital is essentially a square wave analog signal and therefore subject to degradation. As you pay more, you typically get better digital out signals based on the device and price you pay. He noted an improvement in the quality of the digital stream coming from the plus compared to the mini.
@@jp93309 the digital out is higher quality on the pro (same board as pro plus) compared to the mini, producing higher quality analog square waves (what you think of as digital)
@@jp93309 Apparently the WiiM mini sounds more closed in and muddy compared to WiiM pro or Pro+ directly. Several creators have videos on it. Apparently this is due to it having a dual core processor instead of quad core and less ram. You also get room correction.
Personally though, I changed to WiiM pro from mini, I never got to AB test, but listening separately I can’t tell much difference. Also, the room correction EQs are different evertime I use it and it sounds noticeably worse than with no EQ. I also miss the smaller form factor of the mini.
It does have better signal though and drops out a lot less than the mini did. Overall if your happy with the mini I wouldn’t worry about it, but it could be a way to increase performance if your not happy with the mini.
Nice list Randy, thanks. It was your advice that convinced me to get the SU-1 and since that first one I've bought a few more for my sons and even my 80yr old dad. Appreciate the work you do, sir.
Thanks for another great video, Randy! On your recommendation, I added an SMSL SU-1 as a external DAC to the streamer used as part of my home stereo. I noticed an immediate improvement over the DAC built into the streamer. Even my wife was able to detect the improvement. I later upgraded to the Schiit Modi 3E, and then to the Schiit Modi Multibit 2. These were marginal improvements, but still noticeable. As I upgraded my DAC, I passed on the SMSL SU-1 and the Schiit Modi 3E to me children for them to enjoy streaming even more.
Keep up the greta work. Your channel is the first I turn to for HIFI reviews!
But did you and your wife able to a/b them ?
Just got my Geshelli Labs Dayzee in all acrylic with standard OP amps. It sounds incredible. It's hooked up to a McIntosh MA6450 driving Magnepan 1.6qr speakers. I think I'm pretty much done building my rig. Don't feel the need to change anything at this point.
Enjoy your Dayzee. I hear amazing things about it.
What were you using before as I'm also a maggie owner.
@@j-rod6420 it replaced a Geshelli Labs JNOG 2 socketed with Sparkos on the unbalanced outs. It is an outstanding DAC. I was very happy with it. I’m going to use it with my headphone rig in another room. I also have Schitt Bifrost. It is also very good. Dayzee has much better resolution. The imaging is also more precise.
How much is the Dayzee? The website doesn’t even say it. So I’m guessing it’s at least $1k. And gets higher from there depending on op amps etc.. I’m pretty happy with my Mojo 2, I’m just curious. I also keep a Topping E70 at my listening station just for something stationary and it’s surprisingly good, Topping is beginning to make some good stuff. I do fear any issues tho considering the hell that process entails. The A70pro amp is about as good as it gets imo, man when I connect the Mojo to that? It’s an emotional experience sometimes… I’m pretty sure my next jump will be at least a Qutest. But the dayzee is intriguing…
@@khalbrando2990 mine was $1200 before shipping and taxes. It is in all clear plexiglass and standard op amps. Wood case is at least $100 more. There are a few other case options and op amp upgrades for extra cost.
The Dayzee is made to order and you’ll be communicating with Sherri, one of the owners. She is great and I’m amazed that she personally answers your emails. If you do inquire about the Dayzee she will give you all of the info and options available. I received my Dayzee in about 3 weeks.
I have the Fiio K7. It has headphone amp, line out, and pre out. I mostly use it for my ATH-M50X headphones. I'm liking it so far.
@@MattG-v7s I like mine too! 😃
Thank you as always,my friend, for your information and perspectives. DAC, overload right now, but I do have a FiiO K11 R2R arriving soon, to see if I need to change anything. My Loxjie D40Pro, is performing very well and also as a headphone amp, but the FiiO may become my 'gaming' DAC. Take care and all the best.
I’m very curious as to how the FiiO K-11 R2R DAC holds up against the other DACs in this video. I’m intrigued by a >$200 Ladder DAC compared with other DACs in this price range.
My experience.... had schiit modi and modius, was alright until modius stopped working... bought smsl su1 as a temp dac but was completely surprised by not only the clarity and detail, but packed more dynamic punch with kick drums and such than the Schiit products.... Recently got the Geshelli with Sparkos.... and wow, complete drastic improvements in every way... especially with my svs subwoofers, really low sub 40hrz was muddy with SMSL su1, but the Geshelli with Sparkos can tell different notes in this range, am completely amazed at the drastic improvements of the Geshelli J2 that I believe it is end game for me....
Agree with everything you said, not that it matters what I think.
The difference between a decently implemented $100 DAC and a $10k DAC is 0 to 20% max
DACs just do their DACing real good at all price points
If you have the money why not spend $10k or more on a DAC
Will add that, in my opinion, Denafrips did Alvin aka Vinshine dirty, so Denafrips never that for me.
Alvin built that brand and then they cut him out, their choice, but as you pointed out, the price stayed at a distributor level.
In the R2R realm the Musician Draco can be purchased for $675 and is 100% worth checking out
For $1k to $1,200, the Holo Cyan 2 or the Musician Pegasus get better reviews than the Denafrips equivalent price point.
I agree. This is mostly nonsense. It's like super expensive CD/DVD/BluRay players. After about $250 you're paying for name, bells and whistles, more mostly redundant features. The video and/or audio quality difference is minimal and in many cases non existent if you already have high quality speakers. If not ,rather than throwing away cash on an expensive DAC, buy better speakers and improve ALL of you audio.
I'm almost finished building a house and getting a really nice new Onkyo A/V receiver to replace the ancient one I'm currently using. I have all my CDs and DVDs on a USB drive and I'm going to run the audio out into my vintage receiver, either optical or HDMI converter, which will give me a new A/V receiver for movies and a better DAC and streamer than all but the high end streamers and DACs with killer remote and every extra feature you could want for a significantly better bang for the buck by every metric. I already use separate speakers for TV/Movies and audio. But I might get another pair of killer speakers with a different audio profile.
Everyone knows a decent pair of headphones kills all but the most expensive speakers. Same concept. Above a certain threshold money doesn't matter unless we're talking a LOT of money. FU Money. This holds true even with income and net worth.
Get a wiim ultra
And be done 👌🏼
Agree with you on how badly Alvin was treated by Denafrips - a big mistake I think, they are off my Christmas list
I found a ToneWinner AD-1PRE+ DAC/Preamp for $1150 delivered. My buddy Ed bought one too, the black one, and is using it in his main system... We have thrown everything in our arsenal at the ToneWinner DAC, from Bel Canto, Denafrips, PS Audio, GD Audio and several others. I do not even find the need to use tone controls with this DAC. I have no clue what the folks at ToneWinner did, but they nailed it. It almost sounds like they did some DSP work internally, but there is no evidence of that. It is not perfect, but the sound it produces is going to be very difficult to beat. It has a natural sound to it, incredible instrument separation, and focus. It is easy to place instruments, singers, etc. Everything in the recording is left intact, no sharpness, no edginess, etc... They nailed it. I thought nothing would replace my Venus II 12th... And it walked all over the $6000 PS Audio DirectStream. The ToneWinner is worth a look folks.
Is ToneWinner ChiFi? I just checked and seems like they come from GuangZhou
For excellent music, add a lossless source like Apple Music lossless, linear power supply for Eversolo, external DDC Denafrips Iris 12th, external DAC Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1, IsoAcoustics pucks, Cardas Parsec cables, iFi Supanova power cable.
To step up from above, add great amps (NAD C298, Parasound 2125v2), preamp, matching LCR speakers (e.g., GoldenEar BRX), and you're done.
Bought a Denafrips 12th-1 yesterday from a local audio shop. Definitely a major upgrade from my SMSL SU-9n, JDS Labs Atom 2 DAC, Topping E50, and iFi Micro iDSD Signature. A DAC that will last for several years.
There is the Schitt Yggy GS+ at real nice price too. That vs. A Dayzee vs. A kitsune Cyan2... lots of choices
Great video Randy. Good info especially at the end.
I like my Denafrips Enyo 15th but customer service for repairs has been horrible. One of my outputs is not working and looks like I will be responsible for repairs even though it's under warranty. I would buy Geshelli if I could return this.
I got a Matrix Mini i pro (2015) at the start of the year. It only cost $200 used and I love it to pieces! It doesn't have all the streaming crap from the newer models of mini i but it is a superb DAC.
Outstanding as always Randy. DENAFRIPS changed their entire lineup recently but I can highly recommend the Enyo 15TH. It's only $700 and has an I2S input. I really like how it sounds my system. Thank you and keep up the great work.
Got the Ares 12th-1 about a year ago. Been outstanding for me so far.
Great video, I would like to know what you think about S.M.S.L DO100 PRO, which has ARC input and balanced outputs.
I love my Emotiva XDA 3. A dac, a balanced preamp. Great little unit.
Thanks! I share this video all the time. Great information.
Enyo is the old Ares, new Ares comes with Oscillator. Enyo is on sale it is cheaper than the old Ares. Warranty changed from 3 years to 1 year.
No, you are right Randy. DACs without volume options indeed sounds better
Fo sho. Until you get into the higher price range. 4500-5,000$ DACs have use separate preamp in the same chassis
@@Pok-001 for 5000 i would buy some high end speakers , fo sho
@@markovlasic1978 can get some really good speakers in that price range. I try to keep equipment relative to each other. Wouldn’t want 5000$ speakers on a cheap AVR. Speakers definitely most important part of the system but you will never get what you’re paying for without some decent kit in the front end.
Was looking at upgrading speakers then I started buying separates now my speakers have plenty of what I want and im satisfied
Went separates mainly because I couldn’t afford all in one I wanted in a single purchase. lol.
The second-best DAC I've ever heard in my life is the DAC inside the SMSL AO-300 that Randy sorta recommended (by recommending the AN200), and I couldn't be happier. (The best-ever is the DAC inside the Arcam FMJ CD23T.)
waiting for FIIO K11 R2R reviews, extremely cheap r2r.....currently prefer Burr-Brown (Texas Instruments) chips.....
I have a Yamaha A-S301 integrated amp. What kind of DAC would I need to get a noticeably better sound (for CDs played by a Yamaha CD player) than using the internal DAC in the A-S301? Thanks in advance.
RCA out of the CD = you are using the dac in the CD. Optical or coax out of the CD = you are using the dac in the A-S301. I think that the Schitt Modi Multibit is a really nice and affordable dac, but it all comes down to taste.
Ive been an audiophile for over 40 years (If by audiophile it means music enthusiast, spending money on Hi-Fi and always experimenting to get an even better musical experience) I have been reading reviews, discussing and debating Hi-Fi for what seems like a life time. One thing so sadly missing is decent descriptions and even I need definitions. All these reviews seem to mention a bit of image depth (Erm I get this factually but this for me is of marginal interest) and 'AIR' - what does this mean ? is air a spatially wide and deep image, is it a 'light', 'lean' and somewhat 'hollow' sound, what is air !! What I look for and listen for is tonal density and tonal colour - Do instruments and voices have realistic tonality and sound like real things, do they have the appropriate solidity and density, some DACs for me are light and hollow (A lot of ESS chip based implementations seem to err this way) this isnt realistic and isnt 'neutral'. Every DAC should have a sufficient degree of 'neutrality' so that's another empty word for me. It sounds balanced means very little, in actual fact when I hear Neutral I think of 'uninspiring' and 'flat', I want to know how articulate, weighty the bass sounds, bass isnt 'empty', thin and lean in real life so for me this is important. I also want to know how it manages macro and Micro dynamics, how it appears to deal with timing and transients, I want more information on how the DACs compare. More 'air' means nothing to me. I think you have a great opportunity to define what descriptions mean to you so they can be properly interpreted and also add more facets to the sound. Dynamics, tonality, solidity, timing, clarity, body, imaging - width, depth, height. The 'in the room' quality, how believable etc. Sorry to rant but I am looking for a number of affordable £500 DACs in a digital out multichannel system and I have no clue which DACs might be of interest to be honest. I'd trade the last bit of resolution for body and weight. I'd trade 'pin point' imaging for dynamics and so on without any insight I simply don't know which ones I would like. This isnt a preference for a sound, it's a tolerance for what you have to compromise as nothing is perfect ! A lot of inexperienced audiophiles seem to think 'detail' is resolution. I remember when 'crisp' became an over used word along with 'clean', you can guess what these meant but a definition would be a good start. I interpret 'crisp' as light and lean as a lot of speakers described as 'crisp' were lacking in bass and so on.
My SU-1 using USB or optical is volume controlled by my PC. Using it to feed my V3 Monos. Works 👍
Can confirm that Ares II is insanely good, but the price is annoying. I got it for 700 or so, with no TAX from Vinshine in 2021, now it's 1200+21% tax here in EU, which is just ridiculous, that the price to customer is now like 2.5x, 3 years later.
Still loving my Schiit Modi 3+ DACs. Someday I'll be getting a Geshelli. USN 1975 - 1981. Thanks for your service!
I have a Modi + and Modi Multibit v2. Both are stellar units.
I have 2 modi + and a su1, suffering from FOMO wondering if a J2 would be a significant upgrade for my Emotiva/Linton system.
I have the Modius and I love it, not sure I really need to upgrade
@@ConnahJay The Modius is a keeper.
Had modi3 and Chromecast. Upgraded to Geshelli J3 pro w Sparkos 2590 + Wiim Ultra. Modi3 was spectacular but J3 pro has been a very solid upgrade
Thanks Randy for sharing this content.
Any thoughts on the Fiio K11 R2R? Seems incredibly well priced for the spec.
Randy, I have just bought an Enyo 15th (Same as Areas 12-1) direct for £540 delivered. I'll let you know what I think when it gets here.
I have the RME ADI-2 PRO FS R BE not the dac version and two Schiit Gungnir as well as a Modius. The RME gets used the most and sounds fantastic. Have not had to adjust any of the settings, nice having all the options though. Dac's are mostly sideways moves not huge leaps forward although the more you spend the better they do get. Good video Randy yet you stopped at a few grand lol.
Topping E30 for me. I got it around 2020 and its perfectly fine and tiny for my nearfield stack. No upgrades for me until I can afford Benchmark.
First the FX Glass dac and then the Cyan 2 dac and Audiolab M Dac Plus then Fosi ZD 3 and Mojo 2 dac 🤔
I'm thinking of upgrading my Topping E30 V1 to something better. Your videos are informative but consider mentioning if the DACs you talk about are synchronous or asynchronous as the latter is much better and a spec I want. Thank you.
SMSL D300 with Rohm chip should be on your list 😎👍🏼
A wonderful DAC, but a bit thin on the bass for me.
@@Simon_Hawkshaw not in my system, it gives a rumbling bass from the mid bass on.
@BoRerunn I must be doing something wrong. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
@@Simon_Hawkshaw USB connected to a dmp A6 , power to a Arcam AVR10 to R11s or RP 800 😎👍🏼
@BoRerunn Thank you again for your setup. Mine was connected via USB, to Marantz AV8801 to several MA500 amps to my SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers, AR 318 PS towers, and Elac 1010 Sub.
Enjoy your channel. I’m considering 5 DACs under $1500 - Geshelli Daysee, Holo Cyan 2, Geshelli J3 Pro w/large sparkos op amps, Denefrips Ares 15 (other reviewers rate it much better than Ares 12), and Orchard audio Pecan Pi. Geshelli products have been covered well on your channel, but would love to get your opinion on the others.
XDA-2 differential reference is still my main DAC. Would love an XDA-3 but at over 3x the cost of the XDA-2, I just can't imagine that much sonic improvement for the money.
Topping DX1. Fantastic DAC and a decent headphone amp. Use it to power some sennheiserd and feed a Fosi V3.
Sadly the SMSL M200 is no longer manufactured. However, it has been my computer sound system controller for many years. I won't replace it, because it works that well.
You were in their factory and didn’t even mention the Goldnote DS-10 which is an excellent DAC.
How about a video on preamps?
Yes, please!. No one ever reviews pre amps. Everyone is doing only dacs or speakers or integrated amps.
Right on Cheap Audio Man! Cheers
How do they stand up to the Denon Burr and Burton hdcd player chip dacs from the 90's thru aughts?
TDA1541 in my 35 year old Philips CD650 .
value update, many thanks
A great summary. There is one important omission in regards to some of these DACs in regards to power supplies. Most of these DACs have built in power supplies. The SMSL SU-1 does not have a built in power supply and therefore can have a variation in sound quality depending on the quality of power supply. The difference between a standard noisy phone charger versus something like an ifi ipower2 could possibly have a dramatic effect. Cough
Randy - per @0robbi0's comment - if you could help sort out why a Denafrips Enyo is $700 and an Ares is $1200 and whether the difference is worth it, that would be helpful.
Denafrips: there will be no 13th and 14th because those for Chinese are unlucky numbers. Therefore directly from 12th to 15th.
This was good, I am surprised the Eversolo Z8 didn't make it on the list. I did try the SU-1, but it seems that the DAC in my CD player is better than that one. I don't think I would fair much better with a $300 either. Sadly as much as it hurts my wallet to say, I am looking in the $600 range. The Z8 is one of the ones on my list, but so is the Geshelli J2 with the 4499 chipset, and also the Denafrips Enyo (formally the Ares II). I definitely don't want to spend more than that. I would try the Geshelli first, but the problem is that there is a wait time and if I don't like it, they charge a restocking fee. I can get the Z8 and the Denafrips from Amazon. The question is, which of those three sound the best? @Randy. Thank you for reviewing the Wiim Ultra!
Am looking to get my first dac and am struggling to choose without hearing it. I think I want an R2R. I have a Marantz 2325 and Bose 901s series II which I've had since 1976. I think two good options, according to ChatGPT, are the Denafrips Ares ii or Schiit Bitfrost 2/64. I'm thinking the Denafrips might be a better choice but the Schiit is upgradable. I listen to classical and pop rock. Any thoughts?
I'm using a smsl su-8 dac, it's a little older but I still like
Thanks Randy
whats about FIIO K11 R2R?
The aiyima dac-a1 is 50 dollars has remote bass n treble and sounds excellent
I just connected an SMSL-SU1 to my Apple TV via the optical cable, connected to my Pioneer VSX-824. I noticed that when changing the audio source from the HDMI input (Apple TV) to analog input (Apple TV through the SMSL DAC) the volume drops by 5 to 8 decibels. Is this normal?
SMSL DO100 Pro has practically most of what you need. ES chip, XLR/RCA out, HDMI ARC, BT & USB for cheap.
How does the higher-end Schiit models, like the Bifrost, compare? Is it worth the money, or should I consider an R2R model at that price?
If you would like to support the channel, please consider using the **'Super Thanks'** button below the video. Any donation made is greatly appreciated and will be reinvested into the channel. I would also like to express my utmost gratitude to all those who have already donated. 🍀
Make the jump to American Made!
I have SMSL SU-9n but it's driving only my sub. Soundstage was noticeably flatter than Benchmark 3B or Schitt Yggrdrasil. It also has an unnatural sheen over the music that I don't notice if I relegate it to bass duty. My pick between $500 and $1000 is Schitt Bifrost. Yggy has best 3D soundstage and more natural timbre than SU-9 or Benchmark. Yggy resolution not ahead of Benchmark. $500 DAC resolution close to Benchmark, but not soundstage.
How about the Geshelli Labs J3? Please give a review...
How would you compare the sound of the J2S with the AKM 4499 and sparkos opamps to the sound of your Michelle Tecnodec turntable?
Please review the SMSL DL100. Loving mine.
I have been watching all of your videos on streaming and dacs. Do you have any experience with the Denafrips Enyo? It is less money than the Ares and seems similarly equipped. I have a Marantz 2325 and Bose 901s Series II that I bought in the 70s. I am looking for a dac that I can hook up to the Wiim Ultra.
Great channel and content! Can you make a video on the best BT DAC's please! I currently use a usb Dragonfly Black wired to my AirPods Max headphones. I want to cut the cord!!
Anyone looking at the fiio k11 r2r dac headphone amp. One of if not the cheapest R2R dac soon to be available! I really want the cheap audio man's opinion on such a product!
My dac came with the motherboard. Throughout my PC building years, most DACs (that come with the system) are the same. But most of my audio-consuming experiences have come from PCs. What I like to do is change up my speakers. The living room ones go to the basement, and the basement to the back room. Question... Am I the only one, or is this behavior normal? 🤔
Hi Randy great reviews I did noticed you didn’t had any of ifi Dacs . Regards mark
Hoping at some point you'll get a chance to try out the Holo Audio Cyan 2. And it's too bad Alvin @ Vinshine will no longer be distributing Denafrips. He is great to deal with.
I love your materials and thank you for them :)
Greetings from Poland :)
Unfortunately, some of the equipment you recommended is not available in Poland.
I'm looking for active speakers for myself to work with my computer and listen to music from Tidal and with the ability to quickly hook up to the TV during long weekend movie sessions.
Currently, in theory, the best for me are the active Edifier S2000MKIII. In Poland they cost about $380. However, I'm having trouble finding a cool DAC/AMP or DAC+AMP that I can put on my computer desk. At my computer and with my phone, I use Edifier WH950NB headphones.
Could you recommend a DAC/AMP or DAC+AMP at about the price of a Topping D50iii that will handle such a setup ? Or maybe at this price you can have a better sounding set and equally comfortable to use. I don't care about wireless services like WiFi or bluetooth.
I have heard (read) that most DACs are difficult to tell the difference between. I have a WiiM Pro streamer. I purchased a SMSL SU-1 (partly based on your review) to see if I could hear the difference, and I cannot. If you had to suggest the least expensive DAC that a person could easily hear the difference on (above a WiiM Pro,/SU-1) what would it be? The downstream electronics do not have balanced inputs (Old school Mac gear).
Topping dx9 or schiit stack?
Wouldn’t this video be just a bit early in 2024 with the release of the Wiim ultra? It will likely have the sound quality of the Wiim pro or better, the led touch screen, and it’s super friendly and powerful operating system all at $320.
And are you not a fan at all of the Evo A6 standard or master class?
Can I change volume on my wiim mini conected to smsl su-1 connected to fixed output poweramp, or do I need to buy preamp?
Hi Randy,
Is there a reasonably priced DAC that would be a significant improvement over that in a WiiM Pro Plus?
Topping E50 may still be the best balanced (sound wise) stand alone DAC at around $200.
I think SMSL C200 when it's on sale is a much better deal.
@@Hirnlego999 - It is, but its a DAC/AMP combo. I had one but it had QC problems, so I returned it. I don't remember the sound. But I remember liking the E50 better. Smoother/Rounder. I have a DL200 (& DL300) now. Another great deal. There are so many good options at ~$200.
@@JohnSmith-oe4bw "It is, but its a DAC/AMP combo"
That's what I prefer. I've had Topping E70 and SMSL C200 and can't hear a difference between them. The reason I usually recommend SMSL is because the remote is a bit more responsive but on the other hand SMSL are poorer with firmware updates, and if you find them on for instance ASR forum it's more difficult to update.
A change to tube amplifiers would be a welcome change, some great kit out there right now .. I have 5 dacs and use 2 there is zero market for resale ..
I’m looking at buying a DAC for my vintage Yamaha Receiver and CD player.
What are the ones you aren’t using.
Are they for sale
@@Oldcrow77 aune x8 magic with sparko op, smsl do400 audiolab m dac plus ..
Great Review Randy! It's hard Not to find value at any price point. I know this as I own the SU-1, the Modi Multi, and a pair of the J2's. Each have a different role, and they all sound great!
I will stick with my Chord Qutest..... From my home county too!
I have family in Kent, it’s a nice county!
I would never be able to afford the Qutest and my system is too low budget for it. I bet it sounds awesome though!
I just got the Mojo2 for my new EDIFIER S3000PROMKII active speaker system, and I’m loving it. Lots of small changes are adding up to a big difference.
My main reasons for buying mojo 2 where it has an awesome reputation, new uk price fit with my systems budget, the form factor fit my systems aesthetic, and it’s an FPGA chip a different technology to what I had before. My other Dac has a sigma delta chip from burr brown so the difference is very noticeable!
All the best from Hampshire!
Hi Randy, out of modi multibit or stock Geshelli J2s, which one is more fun and engaging in your opinion?
Hey btw love your channel, as well as your watch channel!
I have a question on how to add a DAC to my current setup which is a Project Debut Carbon Evo and Totem Kin play speakers.. I would like to add a Dac from my computer ( iMac) to the system as well or is that just silly.
just got the new fiio r2r dac for 160.oo dollars. try to get your hands on it and do a review and see what you think.
Denafrips, while direct, prices have increased. Any clue why?
As I needed a data streamer in addition to a DAC I just purchased the WIIM Ultra. How does the Ultra DAC stack up against these DACs?
pls review about SMSL PS200 and compare it with Topping D50Iii in terms of sound quality
Does the SMSL come with a power cord? It is not stated on the Amazon page.
What you think about EverSolo DAC-Z6?
DAC’s! Hi Randy.
PC USB audio feed to a SMSL DO100 to a ZA3 to the Hecos.
Randy sounds a bit harsh. Could be the source. 😉
I kid! I make joke!
Instead of the SU-1 for the cheapest SE DAC I'd rather go with SMSL PS200
For the cheapest balanced just USB input I'd go for Moondrop Dawn Pro
Iam currently running a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 on an Aiyima A07 Pro (in total I payed 260€). Is it worth adding a Wiim Pro and a Smsl Su1 for another 180€?
Yggy for the win!