I will never forget when TT Games and LEGO released a LEGO Hobbit game and completely left the third movie out, leaving the film on the Smaug cliffhanger.
I had heard the third one was going to be DLC. Either what I heard was wrong, or they were going to do it, but didn't have the time or money to do it so just abandoned it. Either way it sucks...
There is actually a case of a fan edit being officially released as an alternate cut on the collector's edition Blu-ray of Brian De Palma's Raising Cain. As I understand, there was some studio interference and De Palma was unhappy with the theatrical cut so a fan re-editted the film to more closely match the original screenplay. De Palma saw the fan edit and liked it so much he arranged to have the cut added to the Blu-ray release.
I found it funny that the Orc who lead the army against Minth Tirith, who has 3 or 4 lines was so much more memorable than the 2 main CG Orcs who were meant to be major villains in the hobbit. Heck that one orc that drop kicks an Urak Hai out of the window is more memorable than any of the CG orcs in the hobbit.
@@Mozthx When all the dwarves go to jail, Fili (or Kili, who fucking knows), says to Tauriel: “Aren’t you going to search my pockets? I could have anything down my trousers.”, and she says “Or nothing.”
Cutting out the Smaug attack really upset me back in the day. When the third movie came out I had bought tickets to another movie but I asked the theater staff if I could sit in for the first ten minutes of Five Armies because I felt like desolation wronged me
For those that want a more concise version of The Hobbit trilogy, I’d recommend the JRR Tolkien fan edit by Maple Films. Cuts it all down to 4 hours and colour corrects it to make it look more like the LotR trilogy. Just a far better experience all around - goes to show that editing really can save a movie
They say Star Wars was saved in the edit. I've also seen the prequel anti-cheese edits while they were still on TH-cam and they were decent, not great but no doubt better than whatever Lucas put in theaters Weird question but how does one even find out about fan edits? I remember coming across one that piqued my interest and I probably lost the link, but it was pure chance. It's one of those things where I wonder how it can circulate without getting heat from the studios, but then piracy exists to this day so I'm clearly overthinking
@@spacebassist Twitter has a lot of fan edit content if you know what to search for. i've loved firemerk's work. Kai patterson has also done some good cuts of kenobi and boba fett
While the Maple Films edit definitely makes the Hobbit a lot more digestible, I wouldn't say it saves the movie. Rather, I'd say it brings the movies from "insufferably bad" to "okay". Not to downplay their achievement in making the movies actually watchable, but they're still not that great even with that expert editing and paring out the crap.
This felt like an old school Sardonicast episode. It was great! Keep it up gents! Love when the three of you have a good conversation. There’s still great chemistry there.
Kinda like how Batman V superman was marketed to children ( Hell, i still see kids with BVS merch) but the extended cut is rated R and so is Zs Justice League
It’s the most unjustifiably long film series of all time. The book is so short that most people can finish it in a day. It really shouldn’t be longer than 2 hours.
The Hobbit is Christopher Lee’s last movie before he died (It was also Ian Holm’s last movie, but he just retired). That, to me, is almost worse than anything in the movie itself.
I wouldn't be too bummed about it, considering Lee never liked how Saruman's ending was cut from LotR and seemed to really enjoy reprising the role in such a different way in The Hobbit. You can say the end result was crap, but he was clearly there for the performance and I doubt the opinions of movie nerds on the quality of the film mattered to him.
Okay, so the original Hobbit movie was by Rankin/Bass, then Ralph Bakshi did his Lord of the Rings movie, THEN Rankin/Bass made their Return of the King movie.
@@iamnotthatguy7166 lmao fair enough. these problems were there from day one so i guess people are just more tired of it. adum will never not be nitpicky. the guy has ocd lol.
He looks like he doesn't wanna be there the whole 3 scenes he has in the third one...thorin s death is just completely ruined, and I can't take it seriously
The hobbit might have been better as a series. The book is supposedly designed to reflect a nice bit of adventure in each chapter that ends neatly so the kids go to bed. that would work amazingly as a series
I think it's in very, very bad taste to include children in the Razzies. Even if it was a very objective ranking and not an award show parodying the Oscars. The industry is already very hard on child stars, and we've seen cases where they quit acting after being bullied because of a performance.
When I watched "Battle of the Five Armies" in theaters with my family, I was so bored that when a character said "Finish him!" for about three seconds I thought he'd said "Finnish hymn!" instead
You know, I really like the idea of a Bioshock show, but I don’t think you’d be able to follow Jack’s story and have it land the same. So I’d say it should instead be set during the fall of Rapture. Have a few different characters we follow, watch as they become splicers/survivors. I think it could be a fun ride.
I actually just read the book very recently so this was a pleasant surprise. The Arkenstone (sp?) was an element in the book. It's basically Thorin's whole motivation to get Smaug's treasure. There's a huge rift that forms between Bilbo and Thorin because of what the former chooses to do with it that's pretty sad to see play out. I haven't seen the movies so I dunno how they do it there, but as far as extrapolations go it's something that was in the source material and was pretty pivotal at that.
Just to give a bit of context, the troll scene in An Unexpected Journey doesn't take anything away from the idea of Bilbo being an unreliable narrator. First off, that scene is in the actual Hobbit book. Second, you see the troll statues in Fellowship Of The Ring when Sam mentions them to an injured Frodo. Finally, The Lord Of The Rings was written as a sequel to The Hobbit, The Hobbit wasn't written as a prequel. In the LOTR book, Bilbo mentions to the Hobbit children the trolls as a little wink to readers who've read The Hobbit.
Genuinely the worst part about these movies is how good they good have been, it's made even worse with the few incredible scenes they have, like the Misty Mountains song, riddles in the dark, or Smaug talking with Bilbo, it makes me so badly wish these movies turned out better
The annoying thing is that the rehashing of some of the old LOTR scores and misuse of the Ringwraith and Fourth Age themes weren't a byproduct of a rushed production. Howard Shore had already recorded entirely original material that are more thematically appropriate for those parts of the film, with the cues present on the official soundtrack releases. For whatever reason, they had him replace all that work with re-recordings of old material that had nothing to do with the situation.
@@okamiwolf250 Lindsay Ellis' vid also brought it up a few years back, although the blame was misdirected at Shore there, which just makes it all the more worse when we know for a fact it's not his fault.
The animated Hobbit was made by Rankin/Bass. They made all of those stop motion Christmas specials like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and A Year Without a Santa Claus. They also made an animated Return of the King a few years later.
I have only fallen asleep in a movie theater once in my life and it was during the Desolation of Smaug. This series should have been, at most, two movies.
Some constructive criticism for my favorite group of curmudgeons - I don't know who it is, but one of you is clicking your mouse a lot and we can hear it.
You can tell one of these guys (probably Adam) could not give less of a shit about these movies because of the furious clicking sounds throughout the Battle of Five Armies discussion 😂 probably in the editing bay
I'd guess it was Alex, as it seemed like the clicking happened the most when he was talking (so the noise suppression didn't work), also he sounded a bit distracted at times.
Not sure if you guys heard about what happened with Schaffrillas (former guest on the podcast) but he got into a bad car accident and his brother and best friend both died. So tragic, figured I’d post something in case any of the Sardonicast boys didn’t know about it.
Are you sure? I read an article that said three of them got in a crash, one survived, and this article was posted a week ago. He tweeted on his Twitter account 12 hours ago
As someone who has voted for the Razzies before, I can confirm that all you do is pay a fee to join. I myself was only 16 and 17 when I did it years ago. I did it twice for the heck of it and because I knew what to expect the second year but I wouldn’t ever participate again. You get a list of prenominees and it’s just whatever is popular to hate on. You choose what gets nominated and you could even do a write-in if you wish. Then you’ll vote on the nominees weeks later. The Book of Henry actually had some prenominees that year but didn’t get any nominations.
i’ve only seen the edited maple films version of these movies. it’s about four hours long, and from what i’ve heard, makes them go from unbearable to actually okay. and yeah, from watching that, “okay” is the word i’d use. martin freeman is definitely the best part of them. he’s absolutely perfect for the role. don’t think i’ll ever watch the normal versions, tho. cheers!
Marvelous episode, guys! Keep up the good work, discussions like these out Sardonicast up there with Red Letter Media in terms of film insight and analysis. You three each have such unique, thoughtful minds for cinema. I remember when you three first crossed over, I was a junior in high school and you made my 17-year-old heart sing! Keep on watching movies and spreading your takes. The internet is better for it!
I'm sure that if you take the three movies and remove absolutely everything that is not in the book you can get one ok movie. Surely a lot of people have done their fan edit, I like the book so if I ever want to learn to edit videos I would give it a try.
The dragon/wyvern dilemma is something that plagues the elder scrolls community as well, due to how dragons were depicted in TES V: Skyrim. It's such a stupid thing to get hung up on because this idea of specific classifications is really only a modern conception brought on by things like D&D. They're not real, obviously, and they don't have zoological nomenclature or anything like that. A wyvern is a dragon, like the Chinese Loong is a dragon. The first dragons in the Legendarium didn't have wings and they're dragons just the same as well.
I don’t really get it, tbh. it’s only relevant if the work makes a distinction, like in, for example, the original Dark Souls and Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter makes a clear distinction and separation between wyverns and dragons for the sake of game mechanics and progression. and dragons in Dark Souls 1 are functionally extinct, with wyverns and drakes meant to represent their mortal, much weaker relatives. I don’t recall the hobbit ever making a distinction. it’s weird to me that people would apply lore from other unrelated fiction to lotr like it’s compatible somehow.
It's actually a big deal to George R.R. Martin as well. He has interviews discussing the anatomy of dragons for Game of Thrones. His dragons are essentially wyverns though.
@@JovemEverton I believe she basically quit TH-cam/being a content creator. She made a tweet about Raya and the Last Dragon that people twisted and harassed her over, and this basically served as the straw that broke the camel’s back and she had an emotional breakdown.
Always been a huge fan of Lord of the Rings and these movies came out between the time I was 12-14 so I enjoyed the first hobbit movies and when the third was coming out they did that marathon thing where you could see the third movie a week early after sitting through the first two and I was excited to do it but even then I ended up disappointed after spending like 11 hours in total in that movie theatre just to watch that painful last entry.
The required budget would just need to be so big. It’s pretty high fantasy with all of the different races, creatures & magic. It would cost a pretty penny to adapt.
@@Slop_Dogg Its either that or animated (which even animated would be pretty high) One can still dream of seeing the Mer and Beastfolk with Avatar-tier CGI and mocap.
The entire point is that we do not know what happens at those event. There are historic events mixed with myths that different people interpret differently. That is basically the entire point of the all the writing in the series (besides just being a fun roleplaying world) and its main theme. Movies are inherently antithetical to Elder Scrolls as a concept because the key part is the "prisoner" being player character and having influence on the world and every player being able to interprete things how they see fit. I do think a movie could work but only if it is told from the perspective of an unreliable narrator. The Battle of Red Mountain especially would need to be a Rashomon style movie with different in-universe people retalling the event.
@@bebo2629 That didn't stop HotD which also had a source material written like that (Fire & Blood) And also the Battle of Red Ring was played in dead mobile card game so at least there's a chance to retcon that one into something cool.
I only remembered Bofur and Gloin, and I only remembered Gloin because he's Gimli's dad. So much for all those dwarves we got to see having fun and being dwarves in the first handful of minutes of the entire trilogy.
TIME STAMPS 0:00 Intro, James Gunn/DCEU talk 5:14 An Unexpected Journey (I) 39:30 The Desolation of Smaug (II) 1:03:39 The Battle of the Five Armies (III) 1:39:35 Pizza Time! -- I mean, Question Time! 1:39:45 How does Alex feel about the use of different UK accents for different characters/species? 1:42:02 Thoughts on the Razzies? (Golden Raspberry Awards) 1:46:42 What do each of the Sards look for in a significant other? What are your "types?" 1:52:20 Where does Rick & Morty go from here? 1:59:17 Are there any TH-cam creators you admire/have taken inspiration from? 2:07:15 Ralph recommends Death to Smoochy!
The BtS on Battle of the five armies is fascinating. Jackson flat out says that the theatrical version of that film just wasn't finished. The extended cut was actually the version that was supposed to be put in theaters but it just wasn't finished in time. It's sad because they also talk about this amazing scene and speech by Bilbo that didn't make the cut because it just wasn't done in time. Didn't even make it into the extended because Jackson was still finishing his "theatrical" vision to release as an extended cut. Still like Journey and Desolation though.
i despise the hobbit trilogy (love the book though) but recently i watched a fan edit that combines the trilogy into a single film and it was actually extremely enjoyable. was interesting hearing you guys discussion on this one :)
This is my favourite episode because Adum spends like 10 minutes complaining about the desolation of smaug when he doesn't even know what the word "Desolation" means, actually hilarious
There is actually a pretty entertaining video on TH-cam detailing why dwarves tend to sound scottish in modern media. Sidenote, Tokien actually modeled their culture on the Hebrews....make of that what you will.
@@AgentSteffi I will say that Tolkien had a very staunch stance against nazism and the idea of racial superiority of any kind, so I'm gonna be charitable and say that this was a misguided attempt at being inclusive.
@@yggdrasil2 from what I know, the source of that inspiration came from the fact that they are both diasporas trying to return home, as well as Tolkien's interest in the Hebrew language. If I'm remembering correctly, he later became more aware of the implications of how the dwarves were written in the hobbit and tried to show them in a more positive light in later works like lotr.
They should have made a miniseries for the hobbit instead of movies, the books structure doesn't really make sense for a movie. Each chapter is basically a bed time story for children, a self contained little adventure like Bilbo and the dwarves are attacked by trolls that want to eat them, Bilbo encounters Gollum and gets a magical ring, Bilbo encounters Smaug. It's not like LOTR, which has a structure much more like what you have in a movie. It should've been a fun miniseries, mostly aimed at children with each episode being a fun little encounter/adventure, not some big fantasy epic like LOTR. It could've been great, especially if Guillermo was directing, there would be lots of fun designs that, in a perfect world, wouldn't have to be anything like the LOTR movies but instead be their own thing. It could still be cannon with the movies if it's shown as a sort of dramatization of Bilbo's stories in the world of the movies but I personally don't give a shit if they were connected or not. The LOTR doesn't need anymore backstory than Bilbo having the ring which he got from Gollum when he went on an adventure, and the Hobbit doesn't need a sequel about how the world is going to end unless they destroy the one ring.
To the question of what adaptation you'd do with full creative control like the last of us, Alan Wake would be perfect. How much of a narrative story it is while it's episodic at the same time. Especially since it's heavily inspired from twin peaks, I love that game so much. There's even an official prequel live action mini series on TH-cam called Bright Falls (The location of where Alan wake takes place) Which just further proves how it'd be translated onto TV
There are a couple of edits of these movies that turn them into a single 3.30 hour movie, they really improve it, bringing it from awfulness to mediocrity. Hobbit Tolkien Edit for those interested
Adapting a videogame to a movie is like adapting a movie to a drawing, you can make a good drawing, but you are missing everything the original medium offers
Bro who is constantly clicking their mouse Edit: jesus christ I’m an hour in and its still happening please god buy an mx master 3s or some silent mouse if you must click constantly for 3 hours
These movies did improve on one thing: Bofur. I think he only has one generic line in the books, but in these movies he has two fantastic scenes with Bilbo and has a good friendship with Bombur.
I think adapting The Hobbit always had a low chance of working as a satisfying wide-release film/film series. I hear people always saying it could've been two movies, but I honestly really don't agree. The way the book is structured, it's so clear that if it HAS to be adapted to live action film (which is debatable) it would have worked so well as an easy-going serial series on streaming. Most of the arcs within The Hobbit dont really catapult into each other in terms of plot (once the group is done dealing with one thing they kind of just move onto the next), and it's completely understandable that this must have been so frustrating to try to adapt it into films. If the plot doesn't have a clear throughline, then the character arcs need to take that place narratively, but there just wasn't that much to go off of (so it kind of makes sense that they bloated the films with unnecessary bullshit; how else are you going to have audiences FEEL like they watched a movie?). If it was a whimsical low-stakes series about adventures through Middle Earth, I think this adaptation would have worked pretty well. Obviously, people have come to associate Middle Earth as this lore-heavy epic with high stakes, and the Hobbit was written at a time when Middle Earth was very-much not that, so the series' marketing would have a lot of legwork to do so that people aren't disappointed. However, I would GLADLY take a comfort series where the adventuring party just drunkenly stumbles through each of the loosely-connected situations (maybe one 30-minute episode per whacky situation) over what we got. The series could go until the it culminates in a the battle of the five armies. The fact that Bilbo, the fucking protagonist, gets knocked out by a rock and sleeps through the final battle is fucking hilarious and should have been treated as such.
Say what you will about the Razzies, but at least the nominations for this year were actual films. For the past two years, they've been nominating stuff that doesn't even constitute films. For example, last year they gave worst picture to a stage recording of a Diana musical. For the 2021 ceremony, they gave it to Absolute Proof; a right-wing propaganda piece that had no theatrical release, was seen by nobody, and isn't even available to watch on VOD. They tend to nominate stuff that's just popular, mocking a celeb or politician to cash in on the zeitgeist. Putting in zero effort to spot the prize winning turd. There's a market for an awards show that deals in bad films (If there's one thing that sells on the internet, it's negativity), but the Razzies have lasted beyond their expiration date. There are plenty of bad theatrically released films that fly under their radar that deserve more than say BVS (It's far from being a good film, but to nominate it over something like Yoga Hosers?), so why not award it to a film more deserving of "worst".
Doug Walker and Brad Jones made a top 10 worst films of 2022 video. Doug mentioned mainstream films like Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Russian Pinnochio, while Brad mentioned a bunch of dull christian films and straight to dvd horror films. Here is the thing...the worst movies are always the obscure ones and boring ones that are not even fun to mention. So it's not fun to make fun of something no one saw or even knows what it is. The razzies suck ass as an organization but they ATTEMPT at making fun.
I definitely think both red dead redemption games could make for a good TV show, especially since I have a few friends who can't get into the game because of the gameplay even though they were digging the story and I felt that way about the last of us
The extended editions are just bafflingly stupid at times. Thorin's dad's death is meant to be a sad moment but I shit you not he dies with a Wilhelm Scream.
The start of this episode was like an AA meeting
"My name's Ralph and I watched the Hobbit, extended edition"
Alex and Adum in unison: HI RALPH...
I was thinking the same thing :D
Hi, I'm Ralph and I'm addicted to jenkem
I will never forget when TT Games and LEGO released a LEGO Hobbit game and completely left the third movie out, leaving the film on the Smaug cliffhanger.
I had heard the third one was going to be DLC. Either what I heard was wrong, or they were going to do it, but didn't have the time or money to do it so just abandoned it. Either way it sucks...
Headcannon: They have watched this movie and were like "It's so bad it's not worth our time."
@@bobtom1495 the latter
I hoped they'd make a Lego Middle Earth: The Ring Saga or something like that after TSS but apparently those games are changing direction again now.
Wow i can’t believe they did that
Being confused by the countdown at the beginning and then realizing it was so Adam could get away with dropping the f-bomb really cracked me up
There is actually a case of a fan edit being officially released as an alternate cut on the collector's edition Blu-ray of Brian De Palma's Raising Cain. As I understand, there was some studio interference and De Palma was unhappy with the theatrical cut so a fan re-editted the film to more closely match the original screenplay. De Palma saw the fan edit and liked it so much he arranged to have the cut added to the Blu-ray release.
And then they made chicken
I found it funny that the Orc who lead the army against Minth Tirith, who has 3 or 4 lines was so much more memorable than the 2 main CG Orcs who were meant to be major villains in the hobbit. Heck that one orc that drop kicks an Urak Hai out of the window is more memorable than any of the CG orcs in the hobbit.
“That scum tried to knife me, *KILL HIM* !”
We’ve also got “Meats back on the menu boys” Uruk and “I’ll stick you like a pig” orc. I think about them daily < 3
"Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!!"
Yeah the dude with the fucked up arm who spit on the piece of city that got flung at him haha.
@@SaltySparrow yeah him
I liked the part where they made a dick joke in the second movie. Really embodies the tone that Tolkien established within his own books
I must have missed that, when is it ?
@@Mozthx When all the dwarves go to jail, Fili (or Kili, who fucking knows), says to Tauriel: “Aren’t you going to search my pockets? I could have anything down my trousers.”, and she says “Or nothing.”
That scene had the same energy as the drunken heckler calling the black elf "knife ears" in Rings of Power
Ralph watching DragonBall Evolution for an example of a bad adaptation and immediately following it with, "they didn't even play the game" was poetry.
Cutting out the Smaug attack really upset me back in the day. When the third movie came out I had bought tickets to another movie but I asked the theater staff if I could sit in for the first ten minutes of Five Armies because I felt like desolation wronged me
And did they let you
Oh yes
@@HalfApeMan hell yeah
For those that want a more concise version of The Hobbit trilogy, I’d recommend the JRR Tolkien fan edit by Maple Films. Cuts it all down to 4 hours and colour corrects it to make it look more like the LotR trilogy. Just a far better experience all around - goes to show that editing really can save a movie
They say Star Wars was saved in the edit. I've also seen the prequel anti-cheese edits while they were still on TH-cam and they were decent, not great but no doubt better than whatever Lucas put in theaters
Weird question but how does one even find out about fan edits? I remember coming across one that piqued my interest and I probably lost the link, but it was pure chance.
It's one of those things where I wonder how it can circulate without getting heat from the studios, but then piracy exists to this day so I'm clearly overthinking
@@spacebassist Twitter has a lot of fan edit content if you know what to search for. i've loved firemerk's work. Kai patterson has also done some good cuts of kenobi and boba fett
@@tolmat ahh Kenobi that was what I was after! God that was an insult to my time. I'll note those down, thank you
While the Maple Films edit definitely makes the Hobbit a lot more digestible, I wouldn't say it saves the movie. Rather, I'd say it brings the movies from "insufferably bad" to "okay". Not to downplay their achievement in making the movies actually watchable, but they're still not that great even with that expert editing and paring out the crap.
@@spacebassist some fan edit sites have invite only forums
This felt like an old school Sardonicast episode. It was great! Keep it up gents! Love when the three of you have a good conversation. There’s still great chemistry there.
Lindsay Ellis's Hobbit documentary is a must-watch as regards that embarrassing mess. Well done Alex for bringing it up.
Was Ralph calling Goku's name silly a joke? He seems to imply that DB Evolution is an adaptation of a game and that they made up the name Goku.
Definitely seems to be the case. I think Ralph has no idea what the original Dragon Ball shows are.
Thanks for adding the timestamps again both here & in podcast descriptions, small thing but appreciated!
You can really hear the pain and suffering in their voices during the movie discussion
I thought for a second that Adum left the timer accidentally until I heard the intro
I find it incredibly hilarious that The Hobbit is a kids book and the extended edition of The Battle Of The Five Armies is rated R.
Kinda like how Batman V superman was marketed to children ( Hell, i still see kids with BVS merch) but the extended cut is rated R and so is Zs Justice League
It’s the most unjustifiably long film series of all time. The book is so short that most people can finish it in a day. It really shouldn’t be longer than 2 hours.
The three movies can easily be watched within half a day, so your statement is void.
@@DezorianGuy And the three movies are, le gasp, based on three books. So your logic doesn't even make sense in comparison to what they were saying.
@@SylentVoidkeeper Kingsley talked about one book which could be read in a day. The movies are based on that one book.
A book a day, movie same way.
One movie the length of Avatar 2 would've been fine.
The Hobbit is Christopher Lee’s last movie before he died (It was also Ian Holm’s last movie, but he just retired). That, to me, is almost worse than anything in the movie itself.
I wouldn't be too bummed about it, considering Lee never liked how Saruman's ending was cut from LotR and seemed to really enjoy reprising the role in such a different way in The Hobbit. You can say the end result was crap, but he was clearly there for the performance and I doubt the opinions of movie nerds on the quality of the film mattered to him.
The most positive thing I can say about the hobbit is some of the new horn sounds were pretty good
"I don't think it matters" - Hey, Adum hit the exact spirit of everyone making this series!
Okay, so the original Hobbit movie was by Rankin/Bass, then Ralph Bakshi did his Lord of the Rings movie, THEN Rankin/Bass made their Return of the King movie.
This was the most fun episode you’ve guys have done in a while. I can’t wait for next episode lol
why do people keep implying a quality shift? it feels exactly the same.
@@bigschiz0383 I know it’s been fun.
This is just one of their most recent bests.
@@bigschiz0383 feels like they’re all in it together this time, Ralph is cohesive, Alex isn’t asleep and Adum isn’t being condescending or nit picky.
@@iamnotthatguy7166 lmao fair enough. these problems were there from day one so i guess people are just more tired of it. adum will never not be nitpicky. the guy has ocd lol.
Martin freeman is easily the best part of all three of these movies
Yeah, you totally buy his as being Bilbo, kinda like Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan
He looks like he doesn't wanna be there the whole 3 scenes he has in the third one...thorin s death is just completely ruined, and I can't take it seriously
I love how Gael is a huge LOTR nerd and a guide for Adam, but also with a name like that he could be a character in the very same universe :D
The hobbit might have been better as a series. The book is supposedly designed to reflect a nice bit of adventure in each chapter that ends neatly so the kids go to bed. that would work amazingly as a series
I have never watched dragon ball but from the little I do know Ralph’s description was quite funny
Imagine if Two Towers ended like Desolation of Smaug. Helms Deep explodes, and we had to wait a year for the conclusion to the battle.
I think it's in very, very bad taste to include children in the Razzies. Even if it was a very objective ranking and not an award show parodying the Oscars. The industry is already very hard on child stars, and we've seen cases where they quit acting after being bullied because of a performance.
So confused by the countdown, Now I can't stop laughing.
Think it's so the "fuck" wasn't in the first 8 seconds, so he didn't have to censor it out
Ralph babe GOKU IS THE CHARACTER’S NAME
And dragon ball was a manga and show before they made games based on it AH
When I watched "Battle of the Five Armies" in theaters with my family, I was so bored that when a character said "Finish him!" for about three seconds I thought he'd said "Finnish hymn!" instead
TIL ralph thinks DragonBall was a video game first
You know, I really like the idea of a Bioshock show, but I don’t think you’d be able to follow Jack’s story and have it land the same. So I’d say it should instead be set during the fall of Rapture. Have a few different characters we follow, watch as they become splicers/survivors. I think it could be a fun ride.
I actually just read the book very recently so this was a pleasant surprise. The Arkenstone (sp?) was an element in the book. It's basically Thorin's whole motivation to get Smaug's treasure. There's a huge rift that forms between Bilbo and Thorin because of what the former chooses to do with it that's pretty sad to see play out. I haven't seen the movies so I dunno how they do it there, but as far as extrapolations go it's something that was in the source material and was pretty pivotal at that.
Just to give a bit of context, the troll scene in An Unexpected Journey doesn't take anything away from the idea of Bilbo being an unreliable narrator. First off, that scene is in the actual Hobbit book. Second, you see the troll statues in Fellowship Of The Ring when Sam mentions them to an injured Frodo. Finally, The Lord Of The Rings was written as a sequel to The Hobbit, The Hobbit wasn't written as a prequel. In the LOTR book, Bilbo mentions to the Hobbit children the trolls as a little wink to readers who've read The Hobbit.
Genuinely the worst part about these movies is how good they good have been, it's made even worse with the few incredible scenes they have, like the Misty Mountains song, riddles in the dark, or Smaug talking with Bilbo, it makes me so badly wish these movies turned out better
My favorite part was hearing all the mouse clicking in the background, thanks
Best Sardonicast in a while! Loved Ralph’s energy in this episode
The annoying thing is that the rehashing of some of the old LOTR scores and misuse of the Ringwraith and Fourth Age themes weren't a byproduct of a rushed production.
Howard Shore had already recorded entirely original material that are more thematically appropriate for those parts of the film, with the cues present on the official soundtrack releases. For whatever reason, they had him replace all that work with re-recordings of old material that had nothing to do with the situation.
Yep, that really sucked
Cosmonaut mentioned that same point in his review recently
@@okamiwolf250 Lindsay Ellis' vid also brought it up a few years back, although the blame was misdirected at Shore there, which just makes it all the more worse when we know for a fact it's not his fault.
The animated Hobbit was made by Rankin/Bass. They made all of those stop motion Christmas specials like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and A Year Without a Santa Claus. They also made an animated Return of the King a few years later.
Ralph seems to have bought a new microphone? He sounds all nice and crisp 🥰
And not high off his ass
Tom Green accepting his Razzies for Freddy Got Fingered was the peak for that award show (not that there were many to begin with).
that many what
@@obscure.reference peaks
@@boobysr there is one peak isn’t that the point of it
@@obscure.reference well i tried
I have only fallen asleep in a movie theater once in my life and it was during the Desolation of Smaug. This series should have been, at most, two movies.
Three loooong movies even.
Some constructive criticism for my favorite group of curmudgeons - I don't know who it is, but one of you is clicking your mouse a lot and we can hear it.
Anyone distracted by the sort of mouse clicking noises in the background? I think it is in Alex' audio track, but not sure
Ralph should never mention DBZ again lol
The 4th secret guest on this episode is Adum’s mouse
You can tell one of these guys (probably Adam) could not give less of a shit about these movies because of the furious clicking sounds throughout the Battle of Five Armies discussion 😂 probably in the editing bay
I'd guess it was Alex, as it seemed like the clicking happened the most when he was talking (so the noise suppression didn't work), also he sounded a bit distracted at times.
@@luxudor new ihe video? hopefully
Not sure if you guys heard about what happened with Schaffrillas (former guest on the podcast) but he got into a bad car accident and his brother and best friend both died. So tragic, figured I’d post something in case any of the Sardonicast boys didn’t know about it.
Oh shit, I didn't know that. Fucking tragic, so sorry for his loss
Yms mentioned it at the end of the Marcel the shell watch along so I'm sure they all know
Are you sure? I read an article that said three of them got in a crash, one survived, and this article was posted a week ago. He tweeted on his Twitter account 12 hours ago
@@Mayor_N who are you asking
@@KayPeeOpee anyone, I’m just confused
I don't know who's clicking their mouse but it's making me crazzyyyyy! Love you guys though
Yeah I thought someone was playing cookie clicker or something lol
the "desolation of Smaug" is a place. it's between the mountain and Lake-town. you barely see it in the movie they just thought it sounded cool
lmao TIL this
wow. you’re right, it’s barely even in the film.
In the movies defence: the way Tolkien named his books is not much better either. The Two Towers is a title that barely makes sense in the book form.
You can hear adams mouse clicks throughout the entire podcast
As someone who has voted for the Razzies before, I can confirm that all you do is pay a fee to join. I myself was only 16 and 17 when I did it years ago. I did it twice for the heck of it and because I knew what to expect the second year but I wouldn’t ever participate again. You get a list of prenominees and it’s just whatever is popular to hate on. You choose what gets nominated and you could even do a write-in if you wish. Then you’ll vote on the nominees weeks later. The Book of Henry actually had some prenominees that year but didn’t get any nominations.
i’ve only seen the edited maple films version of these movies. it’s about four hours long, and from what i’ve heard, makes them go from unbearable to actually okay. and yeah, from watching that, “okay” is the word i’d use.
martin freeman is definitely the best part of them. he’s absolutely perfect for the role.
don’t think i’ll ever watch the normal versions, tho. cheers!
Marvelous episode, guys! Keep up the good work, discussions like these out Sardonicast up there with Red Letter Media in terms of film insight and analysis. You three each have such unique, thoughtful minds for cinema. I remember when you three first crossed over, I was a junior in high school and you made my 17-year-old heart sing! Keep on watching movies and spreading your takes. The internet is better for it!
I'm sure that if you take the three movies and remove absolutely everything that is not in the book you can get one ok movie. Surely a lot of people have done their fan edit, I like the book so if I ever want to learn to edit videos I would give it a try.
So excited for the Sards to review the Ralph Trilogy!
Great episode! But who is clicking their mouse the whole time lol
I came here to say the same thing. Was sooo annoying 😂
Very likely Adum
The dragon/wyvern dilemma is something that plagues the elder scrolls community as well, due to how dragons were depicted in TES V: Skyrim. It's such a stupid thing to get hung up on because this idea of specific classifications is really only a modern conception brought on by things like D&D. They're not real, obviously, and they don't have zoological nomenclature or anything like that. A wyvern is a dragon, like the Chinese Loong is a dragon. The first dragons in the Legendarium didn't have wings and they're dragons just the same as well.
I don’t really get it, tbh. it’s only relevant if the work makes a distinction, like in, for example, the original Dark Souls and Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter makes a clear distinction and separation between wyverns and dragons for the sake of game mechanics and progression. and dragons in Dark Souls 1 are functionally extinct, with wyverns and drakes meant to represent their mortal, much weaker relatives.
I don’t recall the hobbit ever making a distinction. it’s weird to me that people would apply lore from other unrelated fiction to lotr like it’s compatible somehow.
It's actually a big deal to George R.R. Martin as well. He has interviews discussing the anatomy of dragons for Game of Thrones. His dragons are essentially wyverns though.
Lindsay Ellis series of videos on the Hobbit is amazing. Better than the movies.
Speaking of, I'm surprised she's never been on the podcast.
@@somerandolad Sadly, she's never going to be now
@@luiginastro8831 Why is that?
@@JovemEverton I believe she basically quit TH-cam/being a content creator.
She made a tweet about Raya and the Last Dragon that people twisted and harassed her over, and this basically served as the straw that broke the camel’s back and she had an emotional breakdown.
Always been a huge fan of Lord of the Rings and these movies came out between the time I was 12-14 so I enjoyed the first hobbit movies and when the third was coming out they did that marathon thing where you could see the third movie a week early after sitting through the first two and I was excited to do it but even then I ended up disappointed after spending like 11 hours in total in that movie theatre just to watch that painful last entry.
Good episode, but whoever is clicking away on the noisy keyboard the entire time needs to chiiiill.
I'd adapt Elder Scrolls lore. The Great War, the Battle of Red Mountain or Ysgramor and the 500 companions would be great if I had full control.
The required budget would just need to be so big. It’s pretty high fantasy with all of the different races, creatures & magic. It would cost a pretty penny to adapt.
@@Slop_Dogg Its either that or animated (which even animated would be pretty high)
One can still dream of seeing the Mer and Beastfolk with Avatar-tier CGI and mocap.
The entire point is that we do not know what happens at those event. There are historic events mixed with myths that different people interpret differently. That is basically the entire point of the all the writing in the series (besides just being a fun roleplaying world) and its main theme.
Movies are inherently antithetical to Elder Scrolls as a concept because the key part is the "prisoner" being player character and having influence on the world and every player being able to interprete things how they see fit.
I do think a movie could work but only if it is told from the perspective of an unreliable narrator. The Battle of Red Mountain especially would need to be a Rashomon style movie with different in-universe people retalling the event.
@@bebo2629 That didn't stop HotD which also had a source material written like that (Fire & Blood)
And also the Battle of Red Ring was played in dead mobile card game so at least there's a chance to retcon that one into something cool.
Was having a bad day and the first 20 seconds of the podcast had me laughing. Really appreciate what all three of you do, cheers.
I like the Hobbit movies but they were to damn long. But the Gollum and Smaug scenes were so good
I only remembered Bofur and Gloin, and I only remembered Gloin because he's Gimli's dad. So much for all those dwarves we got to see having fun and being dwarves in the first handful of minutes of the entire trilogy.
I knew all the characters by name and face before the movie but I didn't afterwards.
TIME STAMPS
0:00 Intro, James Gunn/DCEU talk
5:14 An Unexpected Journey (I)
39:30 The Desolation of Smaug (II)
1:03:39 The Battle of the Five Armies (III)
1:39:35 Pizza Time! -- I mean, Question Time!
1:39:45 How does Alex feel about the use of different UK accents for different characters/species?
1:42:02 Thoughts on the Razzies? (Golden Raspberry Awards)
1:46:42 What do each of the Sards look for in a significant other? What are your "types?"
1:52:20 Where does Rick & Morty go from here?
1:59:17 Are there any TH-cam creators you admire/have taken inspiration from?
2:07:15 Ralph recommends Death to Smoochy!
Beat me to it :) gg
@@michaelscott8901 You've been defeated, Master
did they talk about james gunn in the intro?
These questions are all wrong
Wtf is this? Not very accurate mate.
How did you not talk about Legolas jumping up the falling steps that was hilariously goofy
They did mention that briefly.
@@SamuTT ah damn missed it
The BtS on Battle of the five armies is fascinating. Jackson flat out says that the theatrical version of that film just wasn't finished. The extended cut was actually the version that was supposed to be put in theaters but it just wasn't finished in time. It's sad because they also talk about this amazing scene and speech by Bilbo that didn't make the cut because it just wasn't done in time. Didn't even make it into the extended because Jackson was still finishing his "theatrical" vision to release as an extended cut. Still like Journey and Desolation though.
i despise the hobbit trilogy (love the book though) but recently i watched a fan edit that combines the trilogy into a single film and it was actually extremely enjoyable. was interesting hearing you guys discussion on this one :)
This is my favourite episode because Adum spends like 10 minutes complaining about the desolation of smaug when he doesn't even know what the word "Desolation" means, actually hilarious
There is actually a pretty entertaining video on TH-cam detailing why dwarves tend to sound scottish in modern media. Sidenote, Tokien actually modeled their culture on the Hebrews....make of that what you will.
Oh no
@@AgentSteffi I will say that Tolkien had a very staunch stance against nazism and the idea of racial superiority of any kind, so I'm gonna be charitable and say that this was a misguided attempt at being inclusive.
@@yggdrasil2 Fair enough, but one can still have subconscious racial/ethnic/nationalist/religious biases. They're not the same as intentional hatred.
@@yggdrasil2 from what I know, the source of that inspiration came from the fact that they are both diasporas trying to return home, as well as Tolkien's interest in the Hebrew language. If I'm remembering correctly, he later became more aware of the implications of how the dwarves were written in the hobbit and tried to show them in a more positive light in later works like lotr.
@@hithedragon7842 Based big boy move right there!
I like the Smaug monologue and scene, that's one good thing I guess.
Interesting that the two scenes in this trilogy that worked were conversations between Martin Freeman and a CGI creature.
'click'.....'click'.....'clickety click click'...'click''click'...'click'
They should have made a miniseries for the hobbit instead of movies, the books structure doesn't really make sense for a movie. Each chapter is basically a bed time story for children, a self contained little adventure like Bilbo and the dwarves are attacked by trolls that want to eat them, Bilbo encounters Gollum and gets a magical ring, Bilbo encounters Smaug. It's not like LOTR, which has a structure much more like what you have in a movie. It should've been a fun miniseries, mostly aimed at children with each episode being a fun little encounter/adventure, not some big fantasy epic like LOTR. It could've been great, especially if Guillermo was directing, there would be lots of fun designs that, in a perfect world, wouldn't have to be anything like the LOTR movies but instead be their own thing. It could still be cannon with the movies if it's shown as a sort of dramatization of Bilbo's stories in the world of the movies but I personally don't give a shit if they were connected or not. The LOTR doesn't need anymore backstory than Bilbo having the ring which he got from Gollum when he went on an adventure, and the Hobbit doesn't need a sequel about how the world is going to end unless they destroy the one ring.
TBF the LOTR book structure also does not make sense for a movie but there was just more room to restructere it.
I was just watching *Cosmonaut's and Lindsay Ellis' videos on Hobbit Trilogy* today
and Sardonicast drops a new one. Wow
Goku is not a silly name, RALPH!
But Piccolo and Vegeta are.
Whats that clicking sound
To the question of what adaptation you'd do with full creative control like the last of us, Alan Wake would be perfect. How much of a narrative story it is while it's episodic at the same time. Especially since it's heavily inspired from twin peaks, I love that game so much. There's even an official prequel live action mini series on TH-cam called Bright Falls (The location of where Alan wake takes place) Which just further proves how it'd be translated onto TV
The original Hobbit is Rankin/Bass. They also did Return of the King.
Lindsay Ellis videos on The Hobbit is like the modern equivalent of Mr Pinkett's Star Wars reviews.
Yeah it’s a shame she was cannibalised by her own kind, because I liked her videos.
No they're crap
@@drifter402 why?
@@JKSmith-qs2ii People with invincible enemies will kill their friends if desperate enough.
@@ElvenSonic Just looking at your avatars make this feel like it's gonna be a showdown at noon lol
Okay someone is playing League of Legends while the other hosts are talking. I can hear constant mouse clicking when Alex is talking. Rude!
There are a couple of edits of these movies that turn them into a single 3.30 hour movie, they really improve it, bringing it from awfulness to mediocrity.
Hobbit Tolkien Edit for those interested
Okay which one of you three needs to get a quieter mouse
Lol, Ralph doesn't Know what creature Gollum is...
SARDONICAST IN SKIRTS SARDONICAST IN SKIRTS SADRONICAST IN SKIRTS PLZ DO MORE OF THIS BEGGING
Adapting a videogame to a movie is like adapting a movie to a drawing, you can make a good drawing, but you are missing everything the original medium offers
That's a beautiful analogy.
Bro who is constantly clicking their mouse
Edit: jesus christ I’m an hour in and its still happening please god buy an mx master 3s or some silent mouse if you must click constantly for 3 hours
These movies did improve on one thing: Bofur. I think he only has one generic line in the books, but in these movies he has two fantastic scenes with Bilbo and has a good friendship with Bombur.
🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️🖱️
The Arkeston is very much in the book my guys
I think adapting The Hobbit always had a low chance of working as a satisfying wide-release film/film series. I hear people always saying it could've been two movies, but I honestly really don't agree.
The way the book is structured, it's so clear that if it HAS to be adapted to live action film (which is debatable) it would have worked so well as an easy-going serial series on streaming. Most of the arcs within The Hobbit dont really catapult into each other in terms of plot (once the group is done dealing with one thing they kind of just move onto the next), and it's completely understandable that this must have been so frustrating to try to adapt it into films. If the plot doesn't have a clear throughline, then the character arcs need to take that place narratively, but there just wasn't that much to go off of (so it kind of makes sense that they bloated the films with unnecessary bullshit; how else are you going to have audiences FEEL like they watched a movie?). If it was a whimsical low-stakes series about adventures through Middle Earth, I think this adaptation would have worked pretty well.
Obviously, people have come to associate Middle Earth as this lore-heavy epic with high stakes, and the Hobbit was written at a time when Middle Earth was very-much not that, so the series' marketing would have a lot of legwork to do so that people aren't disappointed. However, I would GLADLY take a comfort series where the adventuring party just drunkenly stumbles through each of the loosely-connected situations (maybe one 30-minute episode per whacky situation) over what we got. The series could go until the it culminates in a the battle of the five armies. The fact that Bilbo, the fucking protagonist, gets knocked out by a rock and sleeps through the final battle is fucking hilarious and should have been treated as such.
Thanks for reviewing An Unexpected Hobbit, The Desolation of Hobbit, and The Battle of the Five Hobbits.
It's not a manual review, it's a Manuel review. Manuel reviews a lot of videos.
Say what you will about the Razzies, but at least the nominations for this year were actual films. For the past two years, they've been nominating stuff that doesn't even constitute films. For example, last year they gave worst picture to a stage recording of a Diana musical. For the 2021 ceremony, they gave it to Absolute Proof; a right-wing propaganda piece that had no theatrical release, was seen by nobody, and isn't even available to watch on VOD. They tend to nominate stuff that's just popular, mocking a celeb or politician to cash in on the zeitgeist. Putting in zero effort to spot the prize winning turd.
There's a market for an awards show that deals in bad films (If there's one thing that sells on the internet, it's negativity), but the Razzies have lasted beyond their expiration date. There are plenty of bad theatrically released films that fly under their radar that deserve more than say BVS (It's far from being a good film, but to nominate it over something like Yoga Hosers?), so why not award it to a film more deserving of "worst".
Doug Walker and Brad Jones made a top 10 worst films of 2022 video. Doug mentioned mainstream films like Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Russian Pinnochio, while Brad mentioned a bunch of dull christian films and straight to dvd horror films.
Here is the thing...the worst movies are always the obscure ones and boring ones that are not even fun to mention. So it's not fun to make fun of something no one saw or even knows what it is. The razzies suck ass as an organization but they ATTEMPT at making fun.
Death To Smoochie is fantastic tbh. Hope you enjoy it.
Adum gave it a 1/10 so.............
He hated it lol
I definitely think both red dead redemption games could make for a good TV show, especially since I have a few friends who can't get into the game because of the gameplay even though they were digging the story and I felt that way about the last of us
Release the contracted cut!
the 4k remastered ones really helps them, at least, visually speaking
The extended editions are just bafflingly stupid at times. Thorin's dad's death is meant to be a sad moment but I shit you not he dies with a Wilhelm Scream.