Mountain Takeoff | Cessna 172 | Big Bear, CA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Watch as Brandon and I make the departure out of Big Bear City to get back on track to Salinas, CA! Enjoy!
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I remember back during the Cessna days i was attempting to lift off of a runway tucked between high peaks, just 3000 foot long, at 5500 foot elevation. It was my first time in the scenic and calm northern Pakistan.
Since that runway was just 3000 foot, tall pine trees at the take off end (mountain to the other side) i had to mark a distance based V1; that if my air speed didnt touch 60 kts by then i was to abort without blink.
First attempt from the very edge of the runway with the short field procedures, flaps 10 full power until steady for the 6 cylinder Continental Skyhawk 2, nearly full tanks, 2 occupants.
Normally this plane reached 60 knots over short distance, but this time at 1300 v1 down runway we barely made 50. I aborted; that v1 calc was perfect, pulled off easy stop at the edge of the rollout runway.
Made second attempt; same results. Stopped everything, parked and went out for an open air breezy walk to ponder over just what was happening.
Took wind, engine power, pitot anomally, tire pressure, weight, temp into account, got into the poh, added 20 percent margin to all book figures for safety since this wasnt a new airplane afterall....i was all good...except those 10 degree flaps of course which while at lower density aided low air speed lift, at 5500 feet they were acting as speed brakes, i concluded. That factor was the single most plausible thing that came to mind, next i was going to drain some of the fuel if no flap takeoff wasn't going to work and finally delay.
But it did work. At less than 1000 foot down the roll i was doing 60 already and then soon 80. I cleared the trees and then hopped between the high peaks back and forth into a triangle until i gained enough height to clear them and finally sailed home.
Honestly it was better than flying an Airbus.
I'm digging the matching Big Bear Airport crew necks haha
A 172 with 2 Adults and fuel is always a thrill at Big Bear. Thank goodness it was cold.
o gosh yes finally. i refresh ur page everyday waiting for a new video. i love ur videos and i really hope i can meet u someday
I started lessons yesterday its gonna be awesome!!! I fly the 152
Growing up in southern California, it's been fun watching you guys at these local airports. I'm currently living about 2 miles from Bermuda Dunes airport and I can't tell you how many times I've been to Big Bear for camping, hiking and skiing. Really enjoyed the past few videos.
Plane is a hoopty. Love it. Gets the blood flowing.
I'm really liking the new format of your videos! A little preview in the beginning, intro, then jumping straight into the video with a one or two minute narration. It's great!
i can really see the nervs kicking into you and brandon by your face expressions. Find it so cool that you two can work together. hope to see more of these videos. keep up the good work and happy flying.!!!
A HUGE sigh of relief!!
Kudos to you as I think more than anyone (other pilots on tube appreciate as well) give good ‘lessons’ and motivation - I’m retired with flying bug, 23 hrs in suspended with finance regrouping for now
I was visiting Big Bear two years ago with a C172 with 160hp. When we took off, the aircraft was just a couple dozen lbs below MTOW and the density altitude was 8000ft. We departed 08 and I took that dry lake to the left of the center line extension into account as a pretty convenient plan B since there is no obstruction in that direction. But plan A (straight out climb) worked well considering the conditions. Short field skills help a lot at that airport and picking up speed in ground effect is worth applying.
Your faces were pretty serious on climbing out. I guess such an abortion is quite an experience.
Really interesting looking at your crew dynamics during the takeoff versus the cruise. Worth a look at of you haven't already played it back. Your instructor pax's eyes were darting all over the shop. Really great bid guys.
Bid = video. Sigh ;-)
Just started flying lessons!
Good luck! 😃
good luck!
Have fun :)
+Theo Baudry u get ur license yet
+Travi5
Nope, ran into financial issues, back on it now though
22 hours total now XD
Is I just me or does Brandon always look worried.
It's you.
+DatCoolGuy It's not just you.
MrAviation101 i still think he looks weird
I thought he looked like he was being extra observant to make sure he would see something if pic did not. It was flying that required all the attention it could be given.
@@Aviation101 Yea, I think you put a few gray hairs on the guy. Just saying.
Great flying and keeping your cool. The Colorado Mtns are a bit higher with various 14k peaks with beautiful views.
You guys made a smart decision not leaving the day before. My squadron lost 4 people flying from El Centro to San Diego in a Cherokee. Ran into that fast rising terrain in IMC . Those mountains are unforgiving.
Thank you for making piloting feel approachable
Nice to have someone in the right seat who knows what's going on.
11:48 haha
pilot: "we can afford to go idle".
copilot: "yeah...whatever..."
Daniel Wu That's how we roll haha
With over a mile of asphalt in front of you ,,, why do you “ have to “ use full flaps ?!?!?
Hey Josh! One of your patrons here!(: thanks to your videos, I have my first flying lesson booked for July 5th at Old Buckenham Aerodrome here in the UK! Awesome video as always, glad to be able to support(:
I was part owner of a 172, parked at Riverside, in the 1990s. I have been in and out of both Big Bear and Apple valley many times. I've done some pretty spooky take-offs out of BB during the summer. You made the right call staying overnight.
Josh your vids were never bad, but they have come as far as your flying skills over the last couple years. Great job on both!
Glad to hear you guys got off okay from L35. Places where the altitude is higher than the length of the runway, makes for interesting experiences..! Looking forward to more videos, keep 'em coming, thanks!!
Your passenger/copilot was chomping at the bit, he wanted to be PIC.
when doing a short field take off i was trained to hold the front wheel off the ground and when the plane lifts off push the nose over and fly the runway to gain speed then normal climb out.
I L-O-V-E that used every inch of runway unlike your aborted attempt the day before. really shows you are learning from your lessons, great job and thanks for sharing.
Fly Safe
This is a really good follow up video. I like the videography that you do now but videos (very high quality even 4 years ago btw) like these are gold for the new people getting into aviation. It represents the real life cockpit dynamic and necessary decision making process very well.
Lake County, CO - 9,934' MSL I did my mountain checkout in April from EIK (used to be 48V) to LXV then back to EIK in a C182. 3 hours of fun, with a moment of fear. We had a new instructor observing in the back. Part of the checkout was to pay attention to where the top of the mountain was in the wind screen. If it was getting bigger, that ain't good. He had me fly up the I-70 corridor, which was cool in an "i hope we don't have to land on I-70 kind of way". As we neared the Eisenhower tunnel I noticed the top of the mountain was climbing in the windscreen and the canyon was narrower than I could turn around in (I think he could've). I mentioned it. He kind of brushed it off as no big deal. 5 minutes later the now nervous instructor in the back brought it up again. Again, no worries, it's all good. I think me and the guy in the back thought we were going to change our name to splat. A few minutes later a canyon opened up to the left and we continued on to Leadville. I basically learned that I probably didn't "need" to fly in the mountains. At least not until I had a lot more dual. But I had a checkout signature in the log :)
I really enjoy your travel flight videos, especially this one since you were in my old flying grounds. I flew to Big Bear many times when Redlands Airport was my base and then for almost 20 years I was out of Apple Valley, shout out to Mid Field Aviation! We moved away over 9 years ago and it was nice seeing the old area through someone else's video. I sure wish the cameras now available had been around back then. Mine were heavy VHS and video 8 cameras. Great videos of this trip, looking forward to more of them!
Your co-pilot was scared shitless!!!! LOL.......Glad everything worked out for you the day before. As pilots we learn something every day and from your video from the day before I've learned to watch the wind sock more closely....
Jackie Chiles Wouldn't quite say I was scared "shitless," but more like I REALLY didn't want to have to spend another night in BB.
Come out to Montana and let's go fly in the bob Marshall wilderness you would love that. 11500 in a Cessna 172 every weekend. Great videos keep flying.
He looks so tense and worried. Makes he think if he really wants to be in that plane ;)
I am looking forward to trying out my Cessna 172K at Glenwood Springs.
thats one of my home airports and i have a couple similar stories one in winter the worst on a hot august morning almost didnt get up in the air we scraped some trees
Nice video. Big Bear is a tricky airport and as someone mentioned, most local schools require a separate check-out to fly in and out of there due to the terrain and density altitude factors. That's definitely a good thing to do as high density altitude demands respect especially when flying airplanes like 172s. Even when it's cold like this day, there's always an elevated pucker factor on departure.
I realized when you did the AWOS check at 8:24 that you departed with a 6 kt. tail wind. Eek! I might have opted for a 26 departure into the wind with short field procedures and a circle back when clear of the terrain in that direction (probably all the way to the dam). But, you had plenty of performance due to the temps and proper leaning, so it worked out well. Thanks for the video and keep flying!
Good to see you both making escape off the mountains. I hope Brandon didn't ate his nails to the bone :) Good Job.
Nice video. Really enjoyed the drama od the situation and the lessons we learn from it. Thank goodness you didn't have a hot day.
Lol I felt the relief and excitement for you when your cleared Big Bear...I almost wanted to do a Captain America for fun, "language"...Great video.
After all of that you guys deserve a Big Bear City sweatshirt.
lucas martin We had no choice. We were dressed for summer! :)
+MrAviation101 Great video! You made the right choice. Personally, I'm not sure I would have attempted to take a C-172 out of Big Bear that day. It just didn't look good out of the windshield. But we have all had our moments. When I was flying regularly over the Sierra Mountains in my Cessna 210, I also put my coat on before take off out of Merced. I figured that if I went down, having my coat in the baggage compartment would do me no good. Especially if I survived and was trapped in the cockpit, and unable to get to the baggage compartment. Even in summer, the mountains can get very cold at night. I learned a lot about mountain flying in those day. But I hated it. The engine always sounded a little different once the flat land disappeared. Hope you have many years of safe flying.
very interesting. I live a stone's throw from KAPV and we often drive up to Big Bear, sometimes on the highway and sometimes on forest roads, so I'm very familiar with the terrain. I only fly flight simulator but my 'standard' C-172 flight is KAPV to L35. Yes, it's a fun flight, even on the simulator. The eastbound route out you took out of Big Bear pretty much follows the highway down to the desert floor to Lucerne then west to Apple Valley and was a great choice. I know you also fly out of San Marcos TX and as a former hill country resident I'm also familiar with that area so I really enjoy those flights as well as this surprise visit to my California local airports. Good stuff!
That is a nasty area for sever down drafts, insane up drafts and harsh cross winds. In 1997 I hit a downdraft that was all I could do to get out of only to hit the updraft component and get sailed 4000 feet (with power off) in less than a minute. I diverted to Apple Valley and had to crab in due to 30 mph gusting cross winds. I tied it down and rented a car to drive home then picked up the plane a few days later. Only a few months before that, I lost a friend to Lucern Valley just a few miles south of there after she iced over and stalled. She crashed in a near vertical attitude that left 2 foot divots in the dry lake bed. 4 perished in that crash.
Nervousness is easy to read from Brandon`s eyes :) I don`t know about you Josh since you had you sunglasses on :) But seriously you guys have done a great job! Even I got excited when you made takeoff roll announcement, i was looking at the airpseed ind. to see how fast airspeed would build :D Good job, Fly safe!
Big Bear is awesome!
One of my favorite airports to fly to and out in my sim.
That thing with full flaps is crazy. That's like landing a 738 into Kai Tak at 40 flaps. Lol
Man, you guys are throwing around some crazy altitudes to me. The lowest airport I have landed at was 4875' elevation (KONM) and the highest was 6537' elevation (KGNT). You guys are landing at 3000' and cruising at 6500' and 7500'? I cruise at 8500' and sometimes 9500' at all times! Great videos in any case!
Josh is cool as a cucumber. Brandon... not so much lol. Loved this video! Also, you remind me of that guy that's in the background of Just Plane Silly's videos all the time. Weird, huh? 😉😆
I really like Josh. He seems like a really cool guy to hang out with.
Having done a bunch of this flying in under powered plane in mountains...it sucks to have to plot escape paths. Flew down a wash in Winslow AZ when the plane didn't want to out climb sinking air.
Make mine turbine with a 2,000 FPM climb rate at 10,000 DA at gross. Suggestion: When flying in the mountains in ANY season, dress like you're going to crash land and be out at least two nights before rescue..
Awesome video! That defiantly looked like a sketchy departure over the lake. I noticed on flight aware you did some stops in New Mexico. Is it possible you could post the videos from NM? As always thanks for the great video!
Well done. Teamwork. Well photographed. Didn't hear radio responses. No tower?
L35 is untowered.
between yourself, and many other aviation you tubers, I am so wanting to get my Private pilot certificate.
Brilliant video. I am very surprised that you got snow in June but given the altitude maybe that is normal. There is no doubt about the relief you showed when you climbed out of the airfield and got above the obstacle zone. But can you help with a question: in the last video you seemed concerned with the higher temperatures and the lower density air. But at 0 degrees Celsius wouldn't the air be nice and dense and the aircraft better able to climb - even at the higher altitude? Andrew
Andrew B At any altitude, if the temperature is above standard, then the density altitude will most likely be higher than the field elevations.
The language. Sheeeesh!
Josh, this is probably a stupid question, but at about 5.25 you say in your radio message that you're 'making a descent through the pass'. Why were you descending rather than continuing to climb? Also, may I ask what was your rate of climb during that early stage of the flight? Thanks for your response. Great vids or Big Bear Airport! Take care! Peter from London
I recall a video of 2 guys who flew in the Colorado mountains. they did crash and were not found until a couple years later...sad. Also I knew a guy who lived at this lake.
The only thing I don't like about Cessna's is those cheesy push/pull throttle/mixture controls. Very interesting video.
Nice work mate. Glad to see you made it.
Good job delaying departure. Might want to think about slowing the N # call out a tad couple of occasions it's slurred together making it hard to comprehend on the other end of the radio and causing more unnecessary "stumbles" in your radio communications.
Rangband1 N number is unimportant on CTAF, nor is it even required. Only pertinent info is airport, type aircraft, position/altitude, and intentions.
0:55 - ".. and not endure another night of accidentally waking up in the spooning position. Thank god you don't have to make eye contact in planes". Motels = Mot-hells!
13:30 - chirp chirp ahhhhhhhhhhh
Hey Josh. Glad you guys were able to head out. I have a question about the flap setting... Looks like flaps 10 for takeoff and climbout. I was always taught to use flaps up for short field takeoffs and 10 for soft fields. I'm a student flying a C172M. Is the flap setting beneficial to the climb performance? I would have thought the drag created would cancel out the benefit of the added lift.
Skyhawk _452 I was never taught that. I was taught 10 degrees for both configurations. My main goal with flaps were to get the airplane off the ground and out of ground effect quickly. I'll definitely look into this though. Seems like it's split between people who do it with 10 and people who do it with flaps up.
Thanks for the reply. I know lots of instructors have different views on some techniques. Happy flying!
Same to you!
Take off roll gets shorter, but rate of climb decreases (at least for this type of aircraft), i.e., 10 deg flaps only make sense on really short runways with obstacles at the end.
Hey Josh. I was watching your departure out of Big Bear City again and a thought came to mind. During your run up, did you bother to lean the mixture prior to take off to make sure you had maximum power set? I'm sure you already know the importance of leaning your mixture when departing any airport above 3000' MSL. This takeoff seemed more tense that it actually should have been. As long as you prepare and follow the proper procedures, it should have been a normal, routine high altitude airport takeoff. One of the techniques I've used when flying out of some of the mountain airports here in Colorado is the "spiral up" method. That's where I bank the airplane in a climbing turn after reaching 500' AGL to gain sufficient altitude before attempting to depart the traffic pattern and cross any high obstacles or terrain. It also serves as a safety measure in case the engine decides to die since the runway is within gliding distance. Anyway, you two did a great job. Keep the videos coming and here's to many more happy and safe flights!
Gordon Feliciano Of course! AIrplane was leaned on the ramp after start up. It wouldn't have been able to get off the ground if it wasn't leaned haha. Go watch the aborted takeoff video right before this one, then you'll understand why we were so tense ;)
Most pilots die around the 200-300 hour mark when they just become confident in their abilities. Don't let that be you. Fortunately you had the smarts to see a bad situation developing. The DA the day you took off must've been bad as that climb rate didn't look much more than 200 ft/m.
haha it was 5 degrees C the D-altitude was not high, the actual altitude is.... The cool weather helped. altitude is 6752 Ft MSL and its a C-172.
Love how you guys are sporting the Big Bear swag on the flight. Hahahah Good video guys.
Another interesting video, thanks josh
Let Brandon have the stick!
I think you should come to austria and fly in the beautiful landscape of the alps. Its also very challenging to depature and land at the small austrian aerodrome because most of the runways are hardly 600 meters long and made of grass. But it brings a lot of experience and of course fun :) Would be a difference to the long american fixed runways :)
Hey Josh (MrAviation101) were you all flying the ODP? Just curious. Heard Brandon give you some vectors and figured that's what you all were doing, but I wasn't sure.
No, he was just giving me a heading to Apple Valley, and I was dodging the terrain.
by the way fuel is cheaper if you go east 15 mins out of big bear at 29palms airport cheaper than big bear and apple valley $1.50 per gallon cheaper
Slow down on the radio its not a race. (calm and collected) also why S turn when you still had 20 degrees of flaps left? You should land if possible with full flaps every landing for many reasons. Thoughts?
I don't like going full flaps unless I'm ridiculously high. Now I slip more often than S turns, but still hardly ever do full flaps. And I agree, sometimes I could slow down on the radio.
There is a reason why we all can't just fly there without checkout with a CFI who has been there before and got checked out to ))
how long did it take you to deice the the plane? What methods did you use. Any Anti Freeze available?
Nice flight
Aloha Josh! Great video. Very informative and fun to watch. I'd like to ask you what model yoke mount you're using. I like how your iPad sits on the yoke. I started flying a Cessna 172 and would like to use my iPad mini 2 with Foreflight. I'd like to get a Stratus 1 or 2 but it's too expensive. I'm thinking of getting a Bad Elf Pro 2 instead. Any thoughts? Mahalo.
Good stuff man! You guys make a good team! how much longer till you get yer IFR?
Directly bought a sweater there :p
I have a Cessna 182RG. I've never had to abort a takeoff but I have had 2 go-arounds. Fortunately I had set the plane up perfectly and the go-around was uneventful. During the flare a rear quartering gust of wind hit me. The rear of the plane went straight up and sideways. At that point I couldn't have been more than 1.5 feet off the runway. I went full throttle and came back around. I had a corporate pilot tell me once to PLAN on a go-around and let the landing be the exception. Luckily I had heeded this advice.
The one thing you should have emphasized and which I did not hear even mentioned should have been a reference to proper leaning of the mixture prior to take off. Your take off would have been quicker and less of a nail biter. BTW, the majority of my flying was done in the mountains of Colorado.
Awesome video!
Setting up this exact flight in MSFS2020
Question for you-why were you flying so low after takeoff? More than a minute after taking off (@3:20) you said you were at 200 feet (4:25)...why not climb higher? Was the plane's performance degraded due to airport elevation or were intentionally staying low?
bg11215 yes, degraded performance.
Wow, it's one thing to read about aircraft performance in varying conditions, but it's quite another to see what it actually looks like. Great videos you post!
bg11215 thanks!!!
Good job! Didn't you have wheel fairings before?
Hey Josh and Brandon, how do you the faro vs the Sierra? I'm looking to get my own headset soon and I was wondering if the Sierra is worth the extra dough
You two seem like really nice guys! I would love to meet you :D
As always great vid
@10:25"That's pansy sh!t compared to Colorado." Lol!
That’s the way to get a 172 with 2 adults and fuel out of Big Bear (L35). Use the cold air, the lake and in VMC.
Hey Josh, Why 10°of flaps on takeoff? My POH for my C-172H does not recommend flaps for any takeoff situation except soft field.
Randy VanLaar Short field takeoff
Exactly - flaps out compromises climb performance, Vx and Vy for this aircraft are both for a clean config, there didn't appear to be any runway limitations other than high elevation. Don't test pilot flight performance, do what the manual says otherwise you're navigating uncharted territory!
Looks like Bam Margera in the right seat.
Nice videos, thanks for your work.
These video seems like something "flight adventures", i like very much the way you made them !!!
I'm a novice flight simmers (FSX) from Civitanova Marche, Italy.
Do you ever plan on flying to south Florida
Hey Guys I continue to enjoy your videos and I have a question for Brandon if I may. Brandon, as a CFI how do you detach yourself from the different flying technique of a buddy and former student. I am not talking about situations, if they arise, of errors your role as Copilot requires that you speck up, but we all have slightly different approaches to the say, same approach? You definitely seem to have the right demeanour for it, but it must be hard not to be a backseat pilot at times?
For instance, in this video, I seems that you would have managed entering the pattern differently.
Good job both of you, I learn something new with every video.
Tony
Tony Roulston It's tough to articulate, actually. Josh and I have been flying longer than we've been friends, and so I am not his original instructor (who gave him is private). So in this particular case, that makes things easier. That said, when we're flying in HIS airplane on a x/c trip with a specific purpose, I tend to keep my mouth shut far more often than I ordinarily would, because I know he knows what he's doing. Simply put: I trust him! But, I'll admit it is VERY difficult at times because, yes, there are some things that I would do different in various circumstances. But as an instructor, you have to keep two things central to your train of thought: 1-- Are the other pilot's actions unsafe? 2-- Are they illegal? If the answer to both of those is "no," then I keep my mouth shut unless I think it's a horrible habit that'll cause issue in the future.
Thanks Brandon for a comprehensive reply. Again, great job and really enjoyable series.
Tony
Santiago Escobar Having only worn that headset on a couple of occasions, I don't want to pass too much judgment on it. It's certainly nice, but depending on what's important to you, it may or may not be the best headset... Josh actually has more experience with it than I.
If you're just starting out, try David Clark's-- good, (relatively) inexpensive headset.
I'm finally getting over being sick when I'd go up and fly, now I can finally get goin on my private license.
Haha 5000 is not that high at all. Come to the Idaho backcountry and you will see what mountain flying is all about. Density altitude in excess of 10,000 for majority of the summer. Strips carved into the side of a mountain.
I love airplanes
So was it the density altitude that was impacting your climb rate in this situation? Because you guys are taking a while to gain altitude. Oh and I passed my check ride June 4th!
jstewhd CONGRATS!! And yes, DA was around 7,500ft when we took off.
MrAviation101 Thank you so much for the reply. Huge fan! I'd start my own channel but I really do not have the time. The army really takes a lot of my free time away. I would definitely like to fly in formation with you guys one day... After I get more experience of course!
MrAviation101 That's high ;) How did you lean before TO and at what speed did you climb?
You should come do mountain flying in New Zealand haha :)
Great video!
I like the shirts
I don't think I'd have any interest flying into an area that resulted in me and my co-pilot cheering after having successfully flown OUT of that area!! I think I'll stick to visiting the boring and flat places! haha