mortal weakness/personal antithesis are weaknesses. Weaknesses do not get doubled on a crit, which is a big downside compare to other bonus damage class abilities.
9:05 I love the mirror. Lantern is, super detections... Weapon implement, is devastating. With that Zero MAP Reaction, and its wide trigger selection. Our Thauma has Adept Regalia, Which = Bonus Damage to everyone. And, a neat Bonus Saves vs Emotional assaults...
4:00 2 things wrong 1st esoteric lore by itself scales with charisma not because of exploit vunluability 2nd exploit vunluability IS NOT recall knowledge, you compare esoteric lore check to standard dc bases on target's lv
Hands down my favorite class. I live how many options you have and the directions you can take. I'm currently playing a Weapon/Mirror that also dabbles in rituals. So much fun. Would love to build a full Thaumaturge party one day.
9:50 The chalice, by no means, replaces the Cleric or even Druid healing. Or any other primary spellcaster, with access to HEAL spell slots. The Thauma can fake it with scrolls. But chalice, at best, competes with some of the focus heals. Maybe a Cleric for Heal + Spells, plus a Rogue for skills + battle medicine , plus 2 or 3 thaumas to round out.
Man, I love this class so much, you can make fittingly, the flavor of your character pretty much anything that you want, from the lines of somethig similar to 5e's echo fighter, a hunter that is prepared to anything, either sobrentural or not, a compulsive liar that believes in its own lies, a character that has a fate/power of pulling out deus ex machina/protagonistic influence , and even one that believes so much his weapon is a different one than the one that he uses, to the last one, I used a concept that he believes he uses a flamethrower (kinda the opposite of the TF2 flamethrower) and so much more, just search for examples is so easy that is mindblowing!
8:33 Our Thauma has been hitting like a steam train, From the jump. Even with hunt prey + hunted shot + 4 arrows, Our Ranger really struggled to post damage. So many hits and Crits, early on, Ended up being 2d8+ 1d10... And could roll. 1s and 2s. For very low dmg minimums, even on a critical. And the combined hunted shot only helps, when both attacks hit, or Crit, together. To a degree, our Monk was posting decent numbers, with decent strength, D10 concussive strikes, and Flurry of Blows. But with full MAP, they hit less often than our Ranger, And the minimum damage for single hits just proved to be lower than our Thauma. Who also had the option of a fatal or a deadly Martial weapon. So those Crits have that extra chance to really show up.
Love to hear that the thaumaturge is shining in your campaign. It sounds like you have a lot of good comparisons to classic martial classes too, so it's a really good experiment on how effective they are. I haven't actually played as one yet but it's my top 2 or 3 choices for my next campaign.
@@RebelThenKing I would say that premaster, recall knowledge in PF2, seemed a bit clunky, to me compared to previous versions with RK result tiers, and what you learn at each tier, broken down on the statblock... So Thauma hitting RK so often, is one stumbling point. Definitely need a DM - Player agreement, on how the Exploit vuln. RK bonus intel will. Work. Especially if it gets invested in. Specifically, a thauma learns so many details from Exploit, many they wouldn't otherwise, with standard RK. Ie. Numerical values to weakness, resistance. Crit success is very informative. The other issue, the Thauma gets so many juggling exceptions, as DM I had to work really hard to help the player understand the PF2 base rules for hands and actions, and interacts, And then the specifics of the Thauma juggling exceptions, especially where those exceptions end. There are limits to the Thauma super powers. One thing that costs quite a few actions. If the Thauma falls unconscious dying. One drops held items. That will include the implements that were in hand. By level 5 and 7, that's usually 2 implements. So you get revived... You are prone, wounded, empty handed, And you need 3 actions to pick up your two items and stand up... So. Quite a bit of drama there. We actually had the Thauma leave one implement behind during a party retreat. They grabbed the expensive striking ghost touch shifting weapon implement, but left the regalia behind. While replaceable... That Regalia impl. Is their adept implement. Notice difference.
There is one Thauma feat, I'll have to check which one specifically, Our Thauma mentioned it eventually helps them close some of that accuracy gap... +2, might not completely catch up to the Fighter tier. Certainly still slower than the Fighter. However... If your midlevel Flurry Ranger is sharing Hunted Prey accuracy with your Thauma... Boom, accuracy on follow up strikes 'reclaimed' love that Further, it rewards the Bard or ally granting an accuracy buff, for giving you back that +1 you feel like you might be missing. I have to check the math, but I cannot imagine a Fighter hitting as hard as our Thauma, or as often as our flurry Ranger.
I've always thought that 2 flat damage per damage die is too powerful. It essentially turns a hand crossbow into a d10 weapon. I've never actually played with one but this always seemed like a bit too much extra damage to me
Thaumaturge with Wand and tome, the trinket feat, the scroll feat, the familiar feat, and trinket dedication makes you into a “Not-a-Wizard”
mortal weakness/personal antithesis are weaknesses. Weaknesses do not get doubled on a crit, which is a big downside compare to other bonus damage class abilities.
Bonus per weapon die
A great reward for the 'magic weapon' upgrades, striking in its forms.
Instant gratification.
9:05
I love the mirror.
Lantern is, super detections...
Weapon implement, is devastating. With that Zero MAP Reaction, and its wide trigger selection.
Our Thauma has Adept Regalia,
Which = Bonus Damage to everyone.
And, a neat Bonus Saves vs Emotional assaults...
4:00
2 things wrong 1st esoteric lore by itself scales with charisma not because of exploit vunluability
2nd exploit vunluability IS NOT recall knowledge, you compare esoteric lore check to standard dc bases on target's lv
Hands down my favorite class. I live how many options you have and the directions you can take. I'm currently playing a Weapon/Mirror that also dabbles in rituals. So much fun. Would love to build a full Thaumaturge party one day.
9:50
The chalice, by no means, replaces the Cleric or even Druid healing.
Or any other primary spellcaster, with access to HEAL spell slots.
The Thauma can fake it with scrolls.
But chalice, at best, competes with some of the focus heals.
Maybe a Cleric for Heal + Spells, plus a Rogue for skills + battle medicine , plus 2 or 3 thaumas to round out.
Thank you for the video. On a separate note, RIP Anchor Brewery. Sad to see a maker of great beers fall.
Agh! I know, how sad. It was still a brewery at the time of filming and editing.
Thanks for going over this class. Its been interesting to me for a while now. You did a great job breaking it down
Man, I love this class so much, you can make fittingly, the flavor of your character pretty much anything that you want, from the lines of somethig similar to 5e's echo fighter, a hunter that is prepared to anything, either sobrentural or not, a compulsive liar that believes in its own lies, a character that has a fate/power of pulling out deus ex machina/protagonistic influence , and even one that believes so much his weapon is a different one than the one that he uses, to the last one, I used a concept that he believes he uses a flamethrower (kinda the opposite of the TF2 flamethrower) and so much more, just search for examples is so easy that is mindblowing!
8:33
Our Thauma has been hitting like a steam train,
From the jump.
Even with hunt prey + hunted shot + 4 arrows,
Our Ranger really struggled to post damage.
So many hits and Crits, early on,
Ended up being 2d8+ 1d10...
And could roll. 1s and 2s.
For very low dmg minimums, even on a critical.
And the combined hunted shot only helps, when both attacks hit, or Crit, together.
To a degree, our Monk was posting decent numbers, with decent strength, D10 concussive strikes, and Flurry of Blows.
But with full MAP, they hit less often than our Ranger,
And the minimum damage for single hits just proved to be lower than our Thauma.
Who also had the option of a fatal or a deadly Martial weapon.
So those Crits have that extra chance to really show up.
Love to hear that the thaumaturge is shining in your campaign. It sounds like you have a lot of good comparisons to classic martial classes too, so it's a really good experiment on how effective they are. I haven't actually played as one yet but it's my top 2 or 3 choices for my next campaign.
@@RebelThenKing
I would say that premaster, recall knowledge in PF2, seemed a bit clunky, to me compared to previous versions with RK result tiers, and what you learn at each tier, broken down on the statblock...
So Thauma hitting RK so often, is one stumbling point.
Definitely need a DM - Player agreement, on how the Exploit vuln. RK bonus intel will. Work.
Especially if it gets invested in.
Specifically, a thauma learns so many details from Exploit, many they wouldn't otherwise, with standard RK.
Ie. Numerical values to weakness, resistance. Crit success is very informative.
The other issue, the Thauma gets so many juggling exceptions, as DM I had to work really hard to help the player understand the PF2 base rules for hands and actions, and interacts,
And then the specifics of the Thauma juggling exceptions, especially where those exceptions end.
There are limits to the Thauma super powers.
One thing that costs quite a few actions.
If the Thauma falls unconscious dying.
One drops held items.
That will include the implements that were in hand.
By level 5 and 7, that's usually 2 implements.
So you get revived... You are prone, wounded, empty handed,
And you need 3 actions to pick up your two items and stand up...
So.
Quite a bit of drama there.
We actually had the Thauma leave one implement behind during a party retreat.
They grabbed the expensive striking ghost touch shifting weapon implement, but left the regalia behind.
While replaceable... That Regalia impl. Is their adept implement.
Notice difference.
There is one Thauma feat, I'll have to check which one specifically,
Our Thauma mentioned it eventually helps them close some of that accuracy gap...
+2, might not completely catch up to the Fighter tier. Certainly still slower than the Fighter.
However... If your midlevel Flurry Ranger is sharing Hunted Prey accuracy with your Thauma...
Boom, accuracy on follow up strikes 'reclaimed'
love that
Further, it rewards the Bard or ally granting an accuracy buff, for giving you back that +1 you feel like you might be missing.
I have to check the math, but I cannot imagine a Fighter hitting as hard as our Thauma, or as often as our flurry Ranger.
Thaumaturge - when you want to metagame but be fair about it.
I mean... you're not wrong 😆
I've always thought that 2 flat damage per damage die is too powerful. It essentially turns a hand crossbow into a d10 weapon. I've never actually played with one but this always seemed like a bit too much extra damage to me
I always thought of it more as a consolation prize for being MAD