If this is a (somewhat) regular series, then instead of head to head or anything like that, a proper series name could be 'Buffer to Buffer!' Something a bit more exciting XD
The bigger question is: are you running out of storage space for all these locomotives? Are Crocs back in style?Lol. Form follows function so Hornby wins.
i prefer good smooth runners, to the fancy good lookers which end up on the shelf because they have "issues"......sadly i have a very large "shelf".....:-)
I agree. You could buy a "shelf Queen" non-runner very cheaply if you want a static display loco on your layout - though I can't imagine why you would - unless you're building a diorama instead? Sam, excellent comparison which is as fair as possible 👍
It's clear to me - performance is king...and price is never "not a factor!" Then there's customer service, and Hornby are in a different (and higher) universe there.
I agree - depending upon your modeling skills, you could add detail, paint the cab, repaint or weather, even add weight (if you think it would make a difference), and improve the hornby. While you can do similar for the bachmann it doesn't overcome the performance differences.
Yeah definitely - I'm a performance man too! I've heard good and bad customer service stories about both Hornby and Bachmann - I've personally had very little dealings with Bachmann's, and Hornby's has been a mixed bag... better lately than it used to be! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A comparison involving the old Triang-Hornby Hall class might have been interesting too, to illustrate how standards and performance have evolved over the years. I suppose you could do this with any class really !
You're right about those lamp irons on the Bachmann Hall. They're about 1.1 mm in width making them equivalent to over 8 cm wide in real life. That's not to scale and about twice the size of lamp irons on some Hornby locos I measured
I wish you’d do a head to head between the older Wrenn/HD locos and the modern versions. Starting with the 8F and the 4MT 2-6-4T. I have HD and Bachmann versions of the 4MT. I still prefer the HD version because of its weight and « presence » though on detail Bachmann is clearly better. As far as finish is concerned I think we’re still in the 1980’s idea that Matt or satin finishes look better than gloss. I’d disagree - ex works locos were always highly polished (as they are today in preservation) and in this respect the Bachmann model wins hands down except for that hideous seam line on top of the boiler which for me is totally unacceptable. In this case I’d go for the Hornby model on the basis of its price and superior performance. But I’d probably give it a coat of gloss varnish!!
That'd be a fantastic idea Robin - good way to get the Wrenn locos back into videos too! Yes there are quite a few who like gloss - I'm a satin man myself, but we agree the flat matt finish definitely doesn't work! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I do have a few Matt finish locos, but that’s because they’re generally very heavily weathered in « end of steam » condition 1965-8 : a couple of 9F’s and a Black Five. Generally various shades of Matt rusty brown 😉
hi sam. an interesting comparison test.. a real dilemma . on one hand you got looks and on the other you have a decent work horse... if you want a model as part of the scenery i would go for bachmann. but if you want a model to do what it is supposed to do and for that sort of money then hornby would be the choice.
Hi Sam, interesting comparison. I still use my old Witherslack Hall from the 90s which I bought for 40 quid about ten years ago and I must admit she runs just fine for me, as does my Pitchford Hall by Hornby (got that train pack 😜). I took the plunge, bit the bullet and went for a “New Tool” Witherslack Hall which arrived the other week. Annoyingly I haven’t been able to run her in yet 😖 Initial impressions are that the body work has improved remarkably. I am slightly nervous though now about the test run- not least as 6990 is my favourite “real life” loco”- but I have time off coming up…wish me luck 🍀🤪🍻👍
We're into European H0 but it seems from many British model channels that Hornby always wins for Steamers and Bachmann for Diesels. Hence, this wasn't much of a surprise really. For continental rolling stock we usually do have a choice of many different makes for exactly the same locos; often a choice from 4 or even 5, e.g. ACME, Brawa, Fleischmann, Roco, Trix/Märklin (e.g. Traxx loco). Some do shorten their Multiple Unit Sets and some provide real length scale. Some are into stock from certain countries as a niche or to fill a gap. Some offer a higer grade of detailing, some less but still run after 60 years (Märklin), etc., etc. It's an interesting world we're diving into :)
I think that the practical questions that every railway modeller faces when choosing a loco are: what are my options, how much do they cost and what is the difference in quality. Given these questions, evaluating a model has nothing to do with which tools were used to make it, and everything with what you get for the price. Many buyers won't even think about how old the tooling is (I don't). They just see a model in a shop and decide whether it's worth the price. In other words: given the practical situation, it is completely fair to compare a loco made with old tooling with a loco made with new tooling. You can even validate comparing second hand models with new ones, as long as the prices were determined at the same time.
Thanks a lot for sharing - I agree 100% - slightly insane that this needs to be explained to some people, but I'm glad you've put it so well! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
hi Sam great video again... Hornby wins for me as the "playability of the locomotive" is further up my list than "it looks great in a wall unit display... keep up the amazing work Sir... ATB Neil from France
Do people really still complain about comparing a 20 year old tooled model to a current new one??? You're argument is really good. A 20 year old model should be reflected in price, or should be upgraded. Thanks for another great video.
Perfect Hall class model: . Bachmann livery application . Satin finish . Combined details of both H & B . 5 pole scew wound motor and flywheel . All wheel pickups on loco and tender . DCC socket in tender . Dapol mogul style loco to tender coupling . Opening smoke box door . No seem lines . Optional brass nameplates & number plates . Cheap price within €150 with optional free weathering
I scored my first Hornby recently snd it is the Alderney Hall. It’s runs very well on my club HO layout. The best part of all I was lucky to find an American seller so shipping was under $10.
Just like with your Bachmann Edward vs Hornby Edward review, the roles switch around when it comes to detail and mechanism with the Hornby Hall Class and Bachmann Hall Class. I’d say l like the Hornby one better because of the price and the better mechanism.
Brilliant video Sam! Love the comparison. I bought the Hornby hall based on your review ages ago, and then more recently got given a Bachmann one, I run my layout on DCC and the difference between them is a lot less noticeable. Think it’s very close between the two but I find myself running the Hornby one a lot more…. I think you’re right to compare old tool models to new tool, another reason companies do this is to recoup their development/tooling costs. If they can turn out a model for 20+ years their margins are going to be pretty good at the end. I often wonder whether the super-detailed models released today are funded by them keeping old ones in the range too! Even at the high prices we see now, I bet new model’s margins are A LOT tighter than we would think, or Bachmann would be willing to admit to…. :p
I think Hornby should bring back the railroad range because it was good for beginners and modelers on a budget I just prefer the railroad range over the current range because of the prices
When my Bachmann Hall runs slowly I just crank up the power! I'm not too concerned that another loco might run faster at the same power level. Also, I fitted the DCC decoder in the the tender which avoided removing the weights
Yeah that's fair enough - this demonstration just shows that the Hornby model just takes care of itself without intervention... if I speed up the Bachmann on the incline, it races down the slope at terrifying speed! Maybe some people will prefer this though! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Actually, that's a good point - I have seen the same roll-a-coaster effect on down slopes even though the DCC decoder has back EMF which should regulate the speed.
Superb video Sam. Yes I think Hornby wins, performance and price. Railroad versions sometimes are still better quality than the Super detail ones. Personal choice is performance. If a model is £150 , it should last a lifetime. The older models are still running provided they are looked after. The super detailed ones are invariably the ones that the rivet counters and ones who display them and never run them want, and fine, that’s what they want. I want locomotives that performance is good and if I want to add extra details, I will add them with the items I think are suitable. (No buffer beams fouling) . Good one Sam.
It was basically make a the main range super detailed locomotives and then to feature them in the Railroad range remove some of the details like window glazing, separate fitted detail, painted detail and put a simplified livery on it.
@@bentullett6068 interesting… I can see the value In that idea, but from the sound of it, they didn’t add enough details to the railways version to make it worthwhile
@@Alpha-oo8 nope they didn't unfortunately as they painted a few cab details, added glazing, painted a bit more details onto the locomotives and added some extra detail parts in the packaging for the customer to add themselves. They then raised the price a little bit more. It was cheaper to buy the Railroad model and add the extra details yourself.
One thing I can never fault Bachmann on is their paint. I'm looking up at my Regional Railways and Large Logo 37s with their rakes of Intercity and West Highland coaches and the finish on them is just outstanding, especially when they come with painted axle boxes and springs on the bogies. I think I'm one of the few that prefer Bachmann models left in pristine condition just because they look so good right out of the box. In fact I do have one medium weathered 37 in Large Logo and it loses so much of its appeal to me. That one's been relegated to freight duties. Now all of my Dapol models - Get the airbrush out! Horrid flat matte paint with awful lines and paint spill everywhere. I'd be more than happy to cover them in dirt!
I've said it before; our hobby is about running trains, give me a loco that runs well over one that (may) look a little better any time; and as for the price difference........it's a no brainer.
Agreed, the model trains of 40 years ago are still running. Super detailed Models invariably are the ones which collectors want in their boxes never to be run, or in display cases locked in a room like the Mona Lisa. Give me a model that runs well and healthy, as opposed to the super detailed model that only works on 3rd radius curves because the buffer beam details hamper the running. Long live the 90’s , it seemed that the models were the Goldilocks era.
@@paulsngaugechannel Quite; on my layout this morning I've been running two 40 year old Airfix Fowlers, tootling along round circuits at a scale speed with 20 wagons behind. One I bought when they were new, one I bought last year for 25 quid.
I believe there’s a flaw in how you weigh the engines. The weight of the coal car should be excluded or even treated as a negative. The weight of the coal car doesn’t add to the weight over the wheels which are pulling, so it doesnt contribute to the number of cars the engine can pull. In fact, it just adds to the load.
A good point I also could not convince Sam of years ago. Some Hornby coal tenders are so heavy and poor rolling that the train hauling capacity is reduced significantly. I reduce tender weight with success.
Hornby’s the winner for me Sam … plus … I would never spend over a hundred on a loco … just can’t afford it … good idea for this video Sam, Best Wishes, Nige 🙏
Whole explanation sequence done for people who have different perspective on the review, nice. appreciate the effort. I love the concept of vs. review, making each manufacturer's sin or slack pop right up much better. Ah it comes down to price, it always dose the value proposition of more expensive one is just not enough to offset its mediocre performance.
I can't help myself, I wanted the Hornby to win. No excuse for parting lines at this price point regardless of the superior finish of the Bachmann. If only Hornby would pull their socks up and stop resting on shrivelled laurels... Thanks Sam as always for an interesting review.
The hornby hall did initially go into the main range with full lining etc but otherwise the same standard of detail (including molded tender handrails) and went down like a lead balloon with people who bought it as it was simultaneously in the railroad range at a far lower price…
Hi Sam, Doing an 'oily rag' weathering on the Hornby and you get a top notch loco. And as always: a better mechanism is the right choice. Nobody likes stalling loco's and poor electrical pick-up. Viva Hornby !! Again you demonstrate Bachmann's overpriced mediocre products. Thanks for this review - appreciated and 'agréable' to watch !
Not sure if this would be possible, but I had a neat idea for a possible project: What if you could combine parts of both models to get the best aspects of both? (Which would probably just be the Bachmann shell/body over the Hornby chassis, but I'd imagine that'd require some modifications). If you wanted to get really advanced you could even remove some of the worse details of the Bachmann body and splice the Hornby ones in place of them, but that might require cutting them off and gluing the others on.
Interesting comparisons which bear out what we know about Hornby making better mechanisms but not always the best detail. The moulding line along the top of the boiler is inadvertently accurate as the boiler cladding on locos joins at the top and creates that effect, just not that proud. It should certainly not be smooth as it would suggest one piece cladding. Tractive effort is influenced not just by power and weight but also the friction coefficient of the wheel rims which may be made of different materials. Controller setting of 50% is not the most accurate way to judge performance due to different gearing. You need the locos travelling at the same speed heading into the curves to judge their relative performance.
Thanks a lot John - yeah this is a pretty good example of that... quite representative of what the two brands produce generally! And that's fair - thanks for sharing! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
So……. Hornby did realease the hall class in the standard range as I happen to own one. Hornby R3206 - Rood Ashton Hall. Not sure on the exact year of release but believe it to be somewhere around 2013/14 maybe?
Ooh interesting! I have a railways train pack with one in, but didn't know they released the stand-alone model in the range!! :O Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@Steamerthesteamtrain the Athearn Trix USRA Mikados were about 25 years old too. Rivarossi retooled in the last five years but still not as Good as the Tenshodo eighties Crown series that are easily upgradable to a better motor.
Haven’t even finished the video yet but could not agree more on the price comparison demonstrated by chavvy Sam and his £1k camera. Spot on once again… and in that context, these models should be bother becoming exceptional AND cheaper, not doubling in price…
Triang made the Best Hall ,My 1966 version, Made in Great Britain it still pulls 10 coaches at speed and it still has all its detail it was manufactured with rather than it loose half its detail the first time out of its box .
Speaking in reference to the hall class. The Bachmann one for the Harry potter series which i was looking at getting is not even worth it being it has split chassis and according to Bachmann in the US is discontinued. To that surprise I would go for the Hornby one where its not prone to split chassis and has updated it to dcc ready etc. Bachmann that split chassis which I wish Bachmann never did this, but years later the fact Bachmann never changed much in the diesels I have which only one is currently running. Bachmann made a FT A unit diesel and one day my loco stopped moving. To my surprise the driveshaft connector is splitting because its on a metal piece that goes to worm gear. I had to move it back to make it connect to driveshaft . Has Bachmann changed last i looked online no which sucks.
I am sure the Hornby Hall did end up in the main range under the design clever idea as I do have the catalogue. Still the new Hornby Hall class is a great looking model for the money.
It's Hornby for me, Sam. No contest as the mechanism is always key as to whether or not you get a decent model. Plenty of torque in the Hornby model because of having a flywheel did it, despite it only having a (ahem) 3 pole motor! Best, Pete.
When you were looking at price comparisons at the beginning of the video and said that the earliest reference you could find was the one of 'Witherslack Hall' and said there were some differences in detailing was correct as this is a 'Modified Hall' designed by Hawksworth, rather than a Collett Designed 'Hall' which the Modified Hall was based on with as the name suggests had a few modifications. I don't know what these were either as mentioned by an earlier poster. Good comparisons though.
Thanks Andrew - yes you're right - there are the two versions floating around out there. I also have a feeling the early ones were split-chassis... but it's not easy to tell without having the models. The second later model I quoted definitely had this mechanism opposed to the split chassis, as it was listed as DCC ready! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam. Very interesting. Would agree that the Bachmann is the more striking. The sheen is just much more classy than the Hornby pea green, but like yourself good running trumps all. Hornby win it for me. What about more head to heads, except extend it a little to similar era and function? Eg. Pre 1900 shunters. Big four expresses. Diesel 0-6-0 shunters. Or even, I have £200 to spend, what’s the Best Buy? Just some thoughts. Keep it up! I’m beginning to annoy the kids with Sam’s dulcet tones wafting through the house on a Wednesday evening!
Bachmann all the way, I have 2 a modified hall and a normal hall, both are absolutely stunning locomotives, with zero faults and amazing runners. Hornby Hall classes from my experience have been tatty, cheap and not detailed enough even for £110 RRP. And the fact they only make them in the Railroad range let's that down alot.
Hornby for me Sam especially as i bought it new from Hattons two maybe three years ago for under £60,i still do not own any Bachmann loco's as the prices they charge is amazing! I would rather have a cheaper loco that runs better but may lack a bit of detail over a better looking finish etc that doesn't run as well.Great review though Sam how about doing the same sort of review for a Class 37?
Excellent video Sam. I've been looking forward to this Hall comparison. Your last review of the Bachmann Hall convinced me to buy the hornby version. I've mildly weathered the new Hall which really lifts it as a model. Another good comparison would be the 08 shunters...or a comparison of bachmanns LMS 4-6-0's from either supplier.
I am not trying to derail your test at all here, but what would the comparison look like with the same models dcc fitted? I don't expect you to do this test. The models were sold without dcc chips, they should be fit for purpose as is. This is just a curiosity question.
I can’t make up my mind to choose between performance and detail. I wouldn’t want a perfectly performing square box, nor would I want a great detailed model that stops/ derails/ can’t pull. (But I can’t afford a $300 to $600 engine)
I'm with you John - though given the recent prices, we shouldn't have to choose between performance and detail... we should get plenty of both as a bear minimum! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bachmann wins on looks, Hornby wins on price and performance but both end up being pants one way or another 👎👎👎 Time for someone to make a new Hall class with decent detailing and good performance which is what we pay for.
I prefer the Hornby one mine runs really well I'm finding on my garden layout all of my Hornby locos run well some Bachmann locos need extra weight in the tenders as they are so light and they sometimes stall due to the lack of tender pickups and I am not happy where the tender is loose from the loco especially if you have wires going to the tender I tend to drill and screw the pin so they are joined together surprised to see you had Colletts models from Exmouth where I get nearly all my models he is filled to the rafters and great prices.
Heres my thoughts: being an owner of both Hornby Pros Power Price (MSRP) Cons Limited liveries Innacurate models (sometimes) Hard to find for a MSRP Bachmann More variety in Liveries More accurate and detailed models Cons Underpowered Overpriced Personally i like the detail of the Bachmann and I prefer them over the Hornby Halls Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
This video justified what I been saying about Bachman they are great looking engines and have a lot of detail but no backbone . Their mechanisms are out of date and their prices are to high . Some of us in this hobby do not have unlimited funds to buy trains. I feel sorry for the young people who like to get into this hobby. Keep these great videos coming me and my grandson really enjoy them.
I personally think the Hornby does it better. For me the performance is what counts not to mention can it do it again and again over time. Bachmann is good for looks but their mechanics have been getting shall I say cheaper. If not just worse, anyway it’s just what I like and nothing says exciting like a long train. So a fairly good mechanism in the chassis is what I care about the most.
Fantastic video. Very interesting to see the difference but I don’t have a hornby hall class. Only bachmann Are you gonna try to do a review on the hornby class 50 diesel ? I’ve noticed you haven’t done one yet
Interesting video Sam. I will always prefer a model with a better mechanism over one that may have better detail. No point in a model looking pretty if it doesn't run very well. Hornby all the way in this case.
I think the Hornby barely edges out not counting price, and blows the Bachman out of the water when price is considered. Whenever I see you do something like this, I alsways wonder how hard it would be to modify the Bachman shell to fit the Hornby chassis, although in this particular case, the Bachman shell has issue too, like the parting line.
My hall is a bachmann split chassis modified hall, like the one shown. The details may be different because its a 6969 class, not a 4900 class. I've had to replace one of the valve sliders, and the body screw isn't engaging, but it runs ok. I will be after a 4900 class hall at some point, and probably would go for the hornby one. I agreee that it was probably a design clever loco that was demoted to railroad (for which they mustve just ditched painting the cab to save money). The bachmann one has a better shade of green (hornby's GWR/BR greens are never right and are getting worse (a2/2...)), but the mechanism isnt as good. Very surprised hornby's lacked proper bearings, but tbh with hornby's record I doubt it would make much difference. A great video. How about one comparing the new bachmann and slw 24s, or the bachmann and heljan and slw 25s? Or the new bachmann and heljan 47s? And comparing the hornby/cavalex/accurascale HAAs when the latter two are released like you did with the PO wagons? (I just got 3 hornby HAAs with canopies, so I can get the same models from the other two manufacturers later) Your analogy is mostly ok, but the camera would have to cost around £4k now to mirror the fact that new models double in price every 10 years.
I always enjoy your philosophical musings on the subject of Hornby versus Bachmann. It is a fact that Bachmann locos often look better but don't run very well. Hornby know their locos are going on a layout. Bachmann are catering for glass case layouts. Thanks for uploading.
Well put together Sam and unbiased as always. I think some of the motors in many Bachmann and Hornby locos these days, are nowhere near as reliable as some of the old Tri Ang and Lima models of "yesteryear". Maybe where they are now made? Only 10 per cent is back in England again. If they make model loco engines in China the same way they make motor vehicles, no wonder models break down or struggle.
hi sam interesting video. bachmann seem to be able to make fine diesel locos and not so good steam locos.for me i think the hornby is the one to have or two for the price of the bachmann. cheers tom.
The finish of the Bachmann is miles better, fit not so. I'm amazed how light they all are - my Rood Ashton Hall from Bachmann is quite a bit heavier, but that could be what I've put into her - the Hornby combined weighs little more than my Coronation tenders!! They're ~170-180g, locomotive (Coronation) 435-445g. I would guess Bachmann Hall combined loco / tender are ~400g. Crawl is superb as well - not as good as my Hornby BR 46100 Royal Scot. You can cherry pick all manner of items I suppose. 240g loco and tender - Hornby? Wow! Al.
Hi Sam, I got a challenge for you. My challenge is making a 3D print North American caboose. The rules are they have to be pre 1950s, You can pick which railroad that I chose for you are down below, and it must have interior. So Sam do you accept my challenge? the railways/railroads that you can pick Pennsylvania Railroad Baltimore & Ohio Railroad Southern Railway (the American one) Cotton Belt Union Pacific Railroad Santa Fe Southern Pacific Great Northern Railway (the American one) Canadian Pacific National Railways of Mexico
Hornby and Bachmann both announced a Hall class mid to late 90s. Model Rail talked Hornby into making a Grange instead which they did. Later , Hornby bought out a Hall as well.
Thankyou for this comparison Sam.. For me, there is no contest. Hornby all the way, especially as I followed your 2019 video and secured Adderley Hall for £49.00 from Hattons. Phew! What a bargain. All the best..
It's unfortunate that Hornby doesn't make OO9/HOe/HOn30 models (that I know of.) While Bachmann's Baldwin 10-12-D is pretty good, I would imagine that Hornby would make better-running ones. As it stands, Bachmann's Baldwin is the best-looking model for its price point, since the models from other manufacturers like Minitrains, Roco, and Liliput (the latter being owned by Bachmann) don't even have cab interiors.
I don't know how you can compare locomotives with their age difference.....not really. It's good to see these differences because I like older locomotives and comparing them to newer ones is interesting. I have newer Bachmann peaks, and I do expect them to perform they aren't cheap. I am deciding between class 20s?? Cheers 🍻 Sam another good video 📹. Sooooo £1,000 fir your camera 📷......do you sell many???🤪
I also don't get that "It's an older model, so you can't compare it" argument. Some of Atherns old Blue Boxes have the same tooling as the new rolling stock, just updated wheels and road names/paint schemes. Nice video.
haha yeah - it's bizarre isn't it? There are a few who defend Bachmann even if it makes no sense to do so... maybe that's it? It's a kinder explanation than just assuming people are insane ;) Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It might be interesting to do a similar experiment that also includes second-hand locos at different price points: what loco can you get at which price point: Tri-ang loco, old Hornby/Bachmann loco, modern locos with budget DC, detailed DC, DCC, and DCC sound. Probably most easily done with a very common loco, like the A4, or the Scotsman. Alternatively: set a budget of, say, 200 GBP to buy a passenger train of a kind that has general appeal and explore what you can get: just the loco, second-hand loco plus coaches, maybe even a complete train set? Is digital possible? Is sound possible? All relevant questions that buyers face unless they have an unlimited budget. You might be able to do these by looking up prices online, but demonstrate locos from your own collection. You seem to have a very wide range.
Nice video! I do have a question, not on these two locomotives, but on another manufacture. Have you ever heard of ACE Trains, and, if so, what do you think of them? I am thinking about getting one of their Black 5s, but I wanted to do some research first. Thanks, and happy railroading!
Not having watched it yet, my money's on Bachmann. Hornby really seems to have gone down the pan a bit in recent years compared with other manufacturers (not least having lost the moral high ground when it comes to smaller competitors!). Edit: Having finished the video - I shan't spoil the result, but that was very interesting!
Yeah I think so! It's something I'm going to have a stab at - now I have a 3D printer I may be able to make motor mountings for better motors! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Great idea for another video. Fitting a Hornby motor into a Bachmann or other makers locos. I always wondered if it could be done and technically I don't see why not. I guess the shaft diameter and length of the motors will be the determining factors. Looking forward to it. I always thought the old Tri-ang motors were pretty reliable even for a 3 pole. As long as you cleaned the commutators and brushes occasionally they just seemed to go and go. These Hornby 5 pole seem to be much better, which they should be given they are a much newer design.
I think I have an idea, get a Hogwarts Castle loco and a second hand Bachmann Hall and transplant the best of both worlds into one loco, you get decent performance with aesthetic detail to match, and because it's Hornby you can use the DCC sound decoder specific to the Hall class
My favourite GWR 4-6-0 Class, The Hall and Modified Hall Classes, they are incredibly lovely locomotives and I have stood on the footplate of 4953 Pitchford Hall, at the Great Central Railway in 2010, and she was brilliant and they are always my favourite GWR locomotives! Can I request you to do a Hornby VS Bachmann LMS Black 5 or 8F, if you can?
If this is a (somewhat) regular series, then instead of head to head or anything like that, a proper series name could be 'Buffer to Buffer!' Something a bit more exciting XD
haha love it Luke - that's a great idea! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Luke we are the only people on my phone who have a reply from Sam
@@thegamingveteran112 Firstly, I'm on PC. Secondly, I've seen Sam reply to loads of other people. This isn't a special occasion mate
The bigger question is: are you running out of storage space for all these locomotives? Are Crocs back in style?Lol. Form follows function so Hornby wins.
Crocs were never in were they?
Crocs and style? How high are you 😂
Yes to both questions, lol! And agreed, that's fair to say!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
For me, performance is more important than appearance. You can always add details, but, usually, very little can be done to up the performance.
Yes I think I am with you on that. Better to addd what we want than what they think we want at expensive price.
i prefer good smooth runners, to the fancy good lookers which end up on the shelf because they have "issues"......sadly i have a very large "shelf".....:-)
Yeah me too overall - that's very true - not easy to upgrade a mechanism!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Absolutly, dosnt mater how good something looks if it dosnt work!
I agree. You could buy a "shelf Queen" non-runner very cheaply if you want a static display loco on your layout - though I can't imagine why you would - unless you're building a diorama instead?
Sam, excellent comparison which is as fair as possible 👍
It's clear to me - performance is king...and price is never "not a factor!"
Then there's customer service, and Hornby are in a different (and higher) universe there.
I agree - depending upon your modeling skills, you could add detail, paint the cab, repaint or weather, even add weight (if you think it would make a difference), and improve the hornby. While you can do similar for the bachmann it doesn't overcome the performance differences.
Yeah definitely - I'm a performance man too! I've heard good and bad customer service stories about both Hornby and Bachmann - I've personally had very little dealings with Bachmann's, and Hornby's has been a mixed bag... better lately than it used to be!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A comparison involving the old Triang-Hornby Hall class might have been interesting too, to illustrate how standards and performance have evolved over the years. I suppose you could do this with any class really !
That's a good point Garry - I'd love an excuse to run the Tri-ang models again!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
You're right about those lamp irons on the Bachmann Hall. They're about 1.1 mm in width making them equivalent to over 8 cm wide in real life. That's not to scale and about twice the size of lamp irons on some Hornby locos I measured
I wish you’d do a head to head between the older Wrenn/HD locos and the modern versions. Starting with the 8F and the 4MT 2-6-4T. I have HD and Bachmann versions of the 4MT. I still prefer the HD version because of its weight and « presence » though on detail Bachmann is clearly better.
As far as finish is concerned I think we’re still in the 1980’s idea that Matt or satin finishes look better than gloss. I’d disagree - ex works locos were always highly polished (as they are today in preservation) and in this respect the Bachmann model wins hands down except for that hideous seam line on top of the boiler which for me is totally unacceptable. In this case I’d go for the Hornby model on the basis of its price and superior performance. But I’d probably give it a coat of gloss varnish!!
That'd be a fantastic idea Robin - good way to get the Wrenn locos back into videos too! Yes there are quite a few who like gloss - I'm a satin man myself, but we agree the flat matt finish definitely doesn't work!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains
I do have a few Matt finish locos, but that’s because they’re generally very heavily weathered in « end of steam » condition 1965-8 : a couple of 9F’s and a Black Five. Generally various shades of Matt rusty brown 😉
hi sam. an interesting comparison test.. a real dilemma . on one hand you got looks and on the other you have a decent work horse... if you want a model as part of the scenery i would go for bachmann. but if you want a model to do what it is supposed to do and for that sort of money then hornby would be the choice.
Yeah exactly right - no easy answer with this one!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, interesting comparison. I still use my old Witherslack Hall from the 90s which I bought for 40 quid about ten years ago and I must admit she runs just fine for me, as does my Pitchford Hall by Hornby (got that train pack 😜).
I took the plunge, bit the bullet and went for a “New Tool” Witherslack Hall which arrived the other week. Annoyingly I haven’t been able to run her in yet 😖 Initial impressions are that the body work has improved remarkably. I am slightly nervous though now about the test run- not least as 6990 is my favourite “real life” loco”- but I have time off coming up…wish me luck 🍀🤪🍻👍
We're into European H0 but it seems from many British model channels that Hornby always wins for Steamers and Bachmann for Diesels. Hence, this wasn't much of a surprise really. For continental rolling stock we usually do have a choice of many different makes for exactly the same locos; often a choice from 4 or even 5, e.g. ACME, Brawa, Fleischmann, Roco, Trix/Märklin (e.g. Traxx loco). Some do shorten their Multiple Unit Sets and some provide real length scale. Some are into stock from certain countries as a niche or to fill a gap. Some offer a higer grade of detailing, some less but still run after 60 years (Märklin), etc., etc. It's an interesting world we're diving into :)
I think that the practical questions that every railway modeller faces when choosing a loco are: what are my options, how much do they cost and what is the difference in quality. Given these questions, evaluating a model has nothing to do with which tools were used to make it, and everything with what you get for the price. Many buyers won't even think about how old the tooling is (I don't). They just see a model in a shop and decide whether it's worth the price.
In other words: given the practical situation, it is completely fair to compare a loco made with old tooling with a loco made with new tooling. You can even validate comparing second hand models with new ones, as long as the prices were determined at the same time.
Thanks a lot for sharing - I agree 100% - slightly insane that this needs to be explained to some people, but I'm glad you've put it so well!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
hi Sam great video again... Hornby wins for me as the "playability of the locomotive" is further up my list than "it looks great in a wall unit display... keep up the amazing work Sir... ATB Neil from France
Do people really still complain about comparing a 20 year old tooled model to a current new one???
You're argument is really good. A 20 year old model should be reflected in price, or should be upgraded.
Thanks for another great video.
Some people do on occasion yeah! Exactly!
Appreciate it my friend,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Perfect Hall class model:
. Bachmann livery application
. Satin finish
. Combined details of both H & B
. 5 pole scew wound motor and flywheel
. All wheel pickups on loco and tender
. DCC socket in tender
. Dapol mogul style loco to tender coupling
. Opening smoke box door
. No seem lines
. Optional brass nameplates & number plates
. Cheap price within €150 with optional free weathering
I scored my first Hornby recently snd it is the Alderney Hall. It’s runs very well on my club HO layout. The best part of all I was lucky to find an American seller so shipping was under $10.
Just like with your Bachmann Edward vs Hornby Edward review, the roles switch around when it comes to detail and mechanism with the Hornby Hall Class and Bachmann Hall Class. I’d say l like the Hornby one better because of the price and the better mechanism.
Omg i find u everywhere!
You can’t escape me lol
haha that's true actually - quite often the case! And yep - you're omnipresent! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains he likes nascar actually, so do it (it’s a racing sport here in the USA)
I would chose the hornby one because I would easily be able to fix some of the loco’s livery and detail application
Brilliant video Sam! Love the comparison. I bought the Hornby hall based on your review ages ago, and then more recently got given a Bachmann one, I run my layout on DCC and the difference between them is a lot less noticeable. Think it’s very close between the two but I find myself running the Hornby one a lot more….
I think you’re right to compare old tool models to new tool, another reason companies do this is to recoup their development/tooling costs. If they can turn out a model for 20+ years their margins are going to be pretty good at the end. I often wonder whether the super-detailed models released today are funded by them keeping old ones in the range too! Even at the high prices we see now, I bet new model’s margins are A LOT tighter than we would think, or Bachmann would be willing to admit to…. :p
I think Hornby should bring back the railroad range because it was good for beginners and modelers on a budget
I just prefer the railroad range over the current range because of the prices
The Railroad range hasn't gone anywhere. It's still in the catalogue.
@@Poliss95 but I don’t recal Hornby having made new products for the range for the last 2 years
When my Bachmann Hall runs slowly I just crank up the power! I'm not too concerned that another loco might run faster at the same power level. Also, I fitted the DCC decoder in the the tender which avoided removing the weights
Yeah that's fair enough - this demonstration just shows that the Hornby model just takes care of itself without intervention... if I speed up the Bachmann on the incline, it races down the slope at terrifying speed! Maybe some people will prefer this though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Actually, that's a good point - I have seen the same roll-a-coaster effect on down slopes even though the DCC decoder has back EMF which should regulate the speed.
Superb video Sam. Yes I think Hornby wins, performance and price. Railroad versions sometimes are still better quality than the Super detail ones. Personal choice is performance. If a model is £150 , it should last a lifetime. The older models are still running provided they are looked after.
The super detailed ones are invariably the ones that the rivet counters and ones who display them and never run them want, and fine, that’s what they want. I want locomotives that performance is good and if I want to add extra details, I will add them with the items I think are suitable. (No buffer beams fouling) . Good one Sam.
When practical, painting light colours first and then progressively darker should eliminate most or all of the colour bleed through
So, I missed the design clever era, but it sounds like “we charge you more for us doing less work”. Is that right?
Yep that's basically it, lol! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It was basically make a the main range super detailed locomotives and then to feature them in the Railroad range remove some of the details like window glazing, separate fitted detail, painted detail and put a simplified livery on it.
@@bentullett6068 interesting… I can see the value In that idea, but from the sound of it, they didn’t add enough details to the railways version to make it worthwhile
@@Alpha-oo8 nope they didn't unfortunately as they painted a few cab details, added glazing, painted a bit more details onto the locomotives and added some extra detail parts in the packaging for the customer to add themselves. They then raised the price a little bit more. It was cheaper to buy the Railroad model and add the extra details yourself.
One thing I can never fault Bachmann on is their paint. I'm looking up at my Regional Railways and Large Logo 37s with their rakes of Intercity and West Highland coaches and the finish on them is just outstanding, especially when they come with painted axle boxes and springs on the bogies. I think I'm one of the few that prefer Bachmann models left in pristine condition just because they look so good right out of the box. In fact I do have one medium weathered 37 in Large Logo and it loses so much of its appeal to me. That one's been relegated to freight duties. Now all of my Dapol models - Get the airbrush out! Horrid flat matte paint with awful lines and paint spill everywhere. I'd be more than happy to cover them in dirt!
I've said it before; our hobby is about running trains, give me a loco that runs well over one that (may) look a little better any time; and as for the price difference........it's a no brainer.
You take the words right out of my mouth. You make so much sense.
Agreed, the model trains of 40 years ago are still running. Super detailed Models invariably are the ones which collectors want in their boxes never to be run, or in display cases locked in a room like the Mona Lisa. Give me a model that runs well and healthy, as opposed to the super detailed model that only works on 3rd radius curves because the buffer beam details hamper the running. Long live the 90’s , it seemed that the models were the Goldilocks era.
@@paulsngaugechannel Quite; on my layout this morning I've been running two 40 year old Airfix Fowlers, tootling along round circuits at a scale speed with 20 wagons behind. One I bought when they were new, one I bought last year for 25 quid.
I bought the Hornby Railroad version and was delighted with every aspect of it and it pulled 8 coaches with no fuss whatsoever!
I know! Fantastic locos for what they cost aren't they? :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I believe there’s a flaw in how you weigh the engines. The weight of the coal car should be excluded or even treated as a negative. The weight of the coal car doesn’t add to the weight over the wheels which are pulling, so it doesnt contribute to the number of cars the engine can pull. In fact, it just adds to the load.
A good point I also could not convince Sam of years ago.
Some Hornby coal tenders are so heavy and poor rolling that the train hauling capacity is reduced significantly. I reduce tender weight with success.
Hornby’s the winner for me Sam … plus … I would never spend over a hundred on a loco … just can’t afford it … good idea for this video Sam, Best Wishes, Nige 🙏
Thanks for sharing Nigel - yeah that's fair! Particularly when they're not worth more than £100 ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Interesting comparison, I’ve now had a Hornby Hall for four years and it’s been great, even before I shoved a DCC decoder in.
That's great to hear! Bet it's even better on DCC! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Who would have guessed. A Hornby Thomas has a feature that the Hornby Hall doesn’t. *BEARINGS*
Whole explanation sequence done for people who have different perspective on the review, nice. appreciate the effort.
I love the concept of vs. review, making each manufacturer's sin or slack pop right up much better.
Ah it comes down to price, it always dose the value proposition of more expensive one is just not enough to offset its mediocre performance.
I definetly prefer working models over good lookers. Plus, it's so much more fun to add details that you want to add anyway!
Hi Sam, very interesting, bit tight but Hornby get my vote, (what about class 37 ??) All the Best Brian 🤗
I can't help myself, I wanted the Hornby to win. No excuse for parting lines at this price point regardless of the superior finish of the Bachmann. If only Hornby would pull their socks up and stop resting on shrivelled laurels... Thanks Sam as always for an interesting review.
haha I don't blame you - I'm very tired of Bachmann churning out these old relics for ludicrous sums of money!! :(
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The hornby hall did initially go into the main range with full lining etc but otherwise the same standard of detail (including molded tender handrails) and went down like a lead balloon with people who bought it as it was simultaneously in the railroad range at a far lower price…
Hi Sam, Doing an 'oily rag' weathering on the Hornby and you get a top notch loco. And as always: a better mechanism is the right choice. Nobody likes stalling loco's and poor electrical pick-up. Viva Hornby !! Again you demonstrate Bachmann's overpriced mediocre products. Thanks for this review - appreciated and 'agréable' to watch !
That's very true - weathering would definitely bring the Hornby to life wouldn't it? :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Not sure if this would be possible, but I had a neat idea for a possible project: What if you could combine parts of both models to get the best aspects of both? (Which would probably just be the Bachmann shell/body over the Hornby chassis, but I'd imagine that'd require some modifications). If you wanted to get really advanced you could even remove some of the worse details of the Bachmann body and splice the Hornby ones in place of them, but that might require cutting them off and gluing the others on.
That would be an amazing project actually - I'd be fascinated to know whether it'd be possible! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I got a Bachmann Modified Hall "Mere Hall". I got it yesterday (2.1.21) at Bewdley (On the Severn Valley Railway) For £70.
Interesting comparisons which bear out what we know about Hornby making better mechanisms but not always the best detail. The moulding line along the top of the boiler is inadvertently accurate as the boiler cladding on locos joins at the top and creates that effect, just not that proud. It should certainly not be smooth as it would suggest one piece cladding. Tractive effort is influenced not just by power and weight but also the friction coefficient of the wheel rims which may be made of different materials. Controller setting of 50% is not the most accurate way to judge performance due to different gearing. You need the locos travelling at the same speed heading into the curves to judge their relative performance.
Thanks a lot John - yeah this is a pretty good example of that... quite representative of what the two brands produce generally! And that's fair - thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
So……. Hornby did realease the hall class in the standard range as I happen to own one.
Hornby R3206 - Rood Ashton Hall.
Not sure on the exact year of release but believe it to be somewhere around 2013/14 maybe?
Two categories - 1) Display only - Bachmann; 2) Performance - Hornby by far hands down.
hi sam its me again and keep up the good work and u were the one who got me into model train and i just want to say thanks
Hey Aiden - that's really lovely to hear, it's a pleasure! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains ur welcome
🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’ve not bothered to watch the video Sam but I knew that hornby would win wow it’s like hornby have never made a bad model
Hornby did release this in the Railways range. It was pretty much the same but with a few more detail parts for a much higher price.
Ooh interesting! I have a railways train pack with one in, but didn't know they released the stand-alone model in the range!! :O
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Here in the States Athearn was offering a USRA Light Mikado the at the same time Trix was.
Lots of big boy versions for Sam to compare.
Athearn, Trix, BLI, MTH, Rivarossi, Tenshodo . Likely many others.
@@johnd8892 The Rivarossi and Tenshodo ones are about 50 years old.
@@Steamerthesteamtrain the Athearn Trix USRA Mikados were about 25 years old too.
Rivarossi retooled in the last five years but still not as Good as the Tenshodo eighties Crown series that are easily upgradable to a better motor.
Haven’t even finished the video yet but could not agree more on the price comparison demonstrated by chavvy Sam and his £1k camera. Spot on once again… and in that context, these models should be bother becoming exceptional AND cheaper, not doubling in price…
I still vote for the old Tri-ang Lord Westwood
haha yeah - old-school never dies! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Triang made the Best Hall ,My 1966 version, Made in Great Britain it still pulls 10 coaches at speed and it still has all its detail it was manufactured with rather than it loose half its detail the first time out of its box .
They were certainly the most robust and reliable!
Speaking in reference to the hall class. The Bachmann one for the Harry potter series which i was looking at getting is not even worth it being it has split chassis and according to Bachmann in the US is discontinued. To that surprise I would go for the Hornby one where its not prone to split chassis and has updated it to dcc ready etc. Bachmann that split chassis which I wish Bachmann never did this, but years later the fact Bachmann never changed much in the diesels I have which only one is currently running. Bachmann made a FT A unit diesel and one day my loco stopped moving. To my surprise the driveshaft connector is splitting because its on a metal piece that goes to worm gear. I had to move it back to make it connect to driveshaft . Has Bachmann changed last i looked online no which sucks.
I am sure the Hornby Hall did end up in the main range under the design clever idea as I do have the catalogue. Still the new Hornby Hall class is a great looking model for the money.
It's Hornby for me, Sam. No contest as the mechanism is always key as to whether or not you get a decent model. Plenty of torque in the Hornby model because of having a flywheel did it, despite it only having a (ahem) 3 pole motor!
Best, Pete.
Thanks for sharing Pete - yeah I think Hornby just about wins it for me too! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
If I could take the detail off the Bachmann Hall,(etched name and number plates included), and stick them on the Hornby one, I would.
When you were looking at price comparisons at the beginning of the video and said that the earliest reference you could find was the one of 'Witherslack Hall' and said there were some differences in detailing was correct as this is a 'Modified Hall' designed by Hawksworth, rather than a Collett Designed 'Hall' which the Modified Hall was based on with as the name suggests had a few modifications. I don't know what these were either as mentioned by an earlier poster. Good comparisons though.
Thanks Andrew - yes you're right - there are the two versions floating around out there. I also have a feeling the early ones were split-chassis... but it's not easy to tell without having the models. The second later model I quoted definitely had this mechanism opposed to the split chassis, as it was listed as DCC ready!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bachmann’s mottoshould be looks or deceiving. Great vid
I have both Bachmann and Hornby BR Standard Class 4. There is no doubt that the Hornby mechanism is better.
Hi Sam. Very interesting. Would agree that the Bachmann is the more striking. The sheen is just much more classy than the Hornby pea green, but like yourself good running trumps all. Hornby win it for me. What about more head to heads, except extend it a little to similar era and function? Eg. Pre 1900 shunters. Big four expresses. Diesel 0-6-0 shunters. Or even, I have £200 to spend, what’s the Best Buy? Just some thoughts. Keep it up! I’m beginning to annoy the kids with Sam’s dulcet tones wafting through the house on a Wednesday evening!
What if Hornby and bachmann would work together
Bachmann make the tooling and paint the body and Hornby would design the chassis
haha it's definitely a nice dream! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bachmann all the way, I have 2 a modified hall and a normal hall, both are absolutely stunning locomotives, with zero faults and amazing runners. Hornby Hall classes from my experience have been tatty, cheap and not detailed enough even for £110 RRP. And the fact they only make them in the Railroad range let's that down alot.
Thanks for sharing Matthew - glad you've been happy with your Bachmann models!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hornby for me Sam especially as i bought it new from Hattons two maybe three years ago for under £60,i still do not own any Bachmann loco's as the prices they charge is amazing! I would rather have a cheaper loco that runs better but may lack a bit of detail over a better looking finish etc that doesn't run as well.Great review though Sam how about doing the same sort of review for a Class 37?
Excellent video Sam. I've been looking forward to this Hall comparison. Your last review of the Bachmann Hall convinced me to buy the hornby version. I've mildly weathered the new Hall which really lifts it as a model.
Another good comparison would be the 08 shunters...or a comparison of bachmanns LMS 4-6-0's from either supplier.
Thanks a lot Craig - oh wow, good idea on the weathering - bet that makes the finish way better! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I am not trying to derail your test at all here, but what would the comparison look like with the same models dcc fitted? I don't expect you to do this test. The models were sold without dcc chips, they should be fit for purpose as is. This is just a curiosity question.
I can’t make up my mind to choose between performance and detail. I wouldn’t want a perfectly performing square box, nor would I want a great detailed model that stops/ derails/ can’t pull. (But I can’t afford a $300 to $600 engine)
I'm with you John - though given the recent prices, we shouldn't have to choose between performance and detail... we should get plenty of both as a bear minimum! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bachmann wins on looks, Hornby wins on price and performance but both end up being pants one way or another 👎👎👎 Time for someone to make a new Hall class with decent detailing and good performance which is what we pay for.
I prefer the Hornby one mine runs really well I'm finding on my garden layout all of my Hornby locos run well some Bachmann locos need extra weight in the tenders as they are so light and they sometimes stall due to the lack of tender pickups and I am not happy where the tender is loose from the loco especially if you have wires going to the tender I tend to drill and screw the pin so they are joined together
surprised to see you had Colletts models from Exmouth where I get nearly all my models he is filled to the rafters and great prices.
Heres my thoughts: being an owner of both
Hornby
Pros
Power
Price (MSRP)
Cons
Limited liveries
Innacurate models (sometimes)
Hard to find for a MSRP
Bachmann
More variety in Liveries
More accurate and detailed models
Cons
Underpowered
Overpriced
Personally i like the detail of the Bachmann and I prefer them over the Hornby Halls
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
You should do more comparison videos of specific hornby and bachmann models. Example: Standard 4
This video justified what I been saying about Bachman they are great looking engines and have a lot of detail but no backbone . Their mechanisms are out of date and their prices are to high . Some of us in this hobby do not have unlimited funds to buy trains. I feel sorry for the young people who like to get into this hobby. Keep these great videos coming me and my grandson really enjoy them.
Thanks Louis - yeah it's a pretty good example of exactly that isn't it? Quite a common story with Bachmann sadly!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I personally think the Hornby does it better. For me the performance is what counts not to mention can it do it again and again over time. Bachmann is good for looks but their mechanics have been getting shall I say cheaper. If not just worse, anyway it’s just what I like and nothing says exciting like a long train. So a fairly good mechanism in the chassis is what I care about the most.
Fantastic video. Very interesting to see the difference but I don’t have a hornby hall class. Only bachmann
Are you gonna try to do a review on the hornby class 50 diesel ? I’ve noticed you haven’t done one yet
Thanks very much! And that would be great - if I can find one, I'll be sure to! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Interesting video Sam. I will always prefer a model with a better mechanism over one that may have better detail. No point in a model looking pretty if it doesn't run very well. Hornby all the way in this case.
Thanks a lot Robert -yeah I'd agree with that - good point!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great video as always Mr Warwell!
Of course the real winner is the Tri-ang Hall!
I can agree with that as I have one. Albert Hall is from Tri-ang, and it's the best classic model I have in my collection.
@@ThomasZoey3000 Mine is extremely reliable, It never goes wrong.
haha thank you! And absolutely... the unsung hero of this video! xD
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think the Hornby barely edges out not counting price, and blows the Bachman out of the water when price is considered. Whenever I see you do something like this, I alsways wonder how hard it would be to modify the Bachman shell to fit the Hornby chassis, although in this particular case, the Bachman shell has issue too, like the parting line.
My hall is a bachmann split chassis modified hall, like the one shown. The details may be different because its a 6969 class, not a 4900 class. I've had to replace one of the valve sliders, and the body screw isn't engaging, but it runs ok.
I will be after a 4900 class hall at some point, and probably would go for the hornby one. I agreee that it was probably a design clever loco that was demoted to railroad (for which they mustve just ditched painting the cab to save money).
The bachmann one has a better shade of green (hornby's GWR/BR greens are never right and are getting worse (a2/2...)), but the mechanism isnt as good. Very surprised hornby's lacked proper bearings, but tbh with hornby's record I doubt it would make much difference.
A great video. How about one comparing the new bachmann and slw 24s, or the bachmann and heljan and slw 25s? Or the new bachmann and heljan 47s? And comparing the hornby/cavalex/accurascale HAAs when the latter two are released like you did with the PO wagons? (I just got 3 hornby HAAs with canopies, so I can get the same models from the other two manufacturers later)
Your analogy is mostly ok, but the camera would have to cost around £4k now to mirror the fact that new models double in price every 10 years.
I always enjoy your philosophical musings on the subject of Hornby versus Bachmann. It is a fact that Bachmann locos often look better but don't run very well. Hornby know their locos are going on a layout. Bachmann are catering for glass case layouts. Thanks for uploading.
Well put together Sam and unbiased as always. I think some of the motors in many Bachmann and Hornby locos these days, are nowhere near as reliable as some of the old Tri Ang and Lima models of "yesteryear". Maybe where they are now made? Only 10 per cent is back in England again. If they make model loco engines in China the same way they make motor vehicles, no wonder models break down or struggle.
hi sam interesting video. bachmann seem to be able to make fine diesel locos and not so good steam locos.for me i think the hornby is the one to have or two for the price of the bachmann. cheers tom.
The finish of the Bachmann is miles better, fit not so.
I'm amazed how light they all are - my Rood Ashton Hall from Bachmann is quite a bit heavier, but that could be what I've put into her - the Hornby combined weighs little more than my Coronation tenders!!
They're ~170-180g, locomotive (Coronation) 435-445g.
I would guess Bachmann Hall combined loco / tender are ~400g.
Crawl is superb as well - not as good as my Hornby BR 46100 Royal Scot.
You can cherry pick all manner of items I suppose. 240g loco and tender - Hornby? Wow!
Al.
Hi Sam, I got a challenge for you. My challenge is making a 3D print North American caboose. The rules are they have to be pre 1950s, You can pick which railroad that I chose for you are down below, and it must have interior. So Sam do you accept my challenge?
the railways/railroads that you can pick
Pennsylvania Railroad
Baltimore & Ohio Railroad
Southern Railway (the American one)
Cotton Belt
Union Pacific Railroad
Santa Fe
Southern Pacific
Great Northern Railway (the American one)
Canadian Pacific
National Railways of Mexico
Hornby and Bachmann both announced a Hall class mid to late 90s. Model Rail talked Hornby into making a Grange instead which they did. Later , Hornby bought out a Hall as well.
Thankyou for this comparison Sam.. For me, there is no contest. Hornby all the way, especially as I followed your 2019 video and secured Adderley Hall for £49.00 from Hattons. Phew! What a bargain. All the best..
It's a pleasure Martin - and fantastic - that really was an incredible model for the price!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It's unfortunate that Hornby doesn't make OO9/HOe/HOn30 models (that I know of.) While Bachmann's Baldwin 10-12-D is pretty good, I would imagine that Hornby would make better-running ones. As it stands, Bachmann's Baldwin is the best-looking model for its price point, since the models from other manufacturers like Minitrains, Roco, and Liliput (the latter being owned by Bachmann) don't even have cab interiors.
My solution: get 00Neal to repaint the Hornby model to look like the bachmann one (and use the Bachman etched plates)
I don't know how you can compare locomotives with their age difference.....not really. It's good to see these differences because I like older locomotives and comparing them to newer ones is interesting. I have newer Bachmann peaks, and I do expect them to perform they aren't cheap. I am deciding between class 20s?? Cheers 🍻 Sam another good video 📹. Sooooo £1,000 fir your camera 📷......do you sell many???🤪
"The bachmann locomotive is almost 20 years old"
"In this day and age is not ideal"
The contradiction...
I'm hoping this is a joke... given the lengthy explanation and rebuttal of exactly this argument ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A very clear argument Sam...can't believe it confuses people.....have you still got any cameras for sale BTW!!!! 🤣🤣🤣
I also don't get that "It's an older model, so you can't compare it" argument. Some of Atherns old Blue Boxes have the same tooling as the new rolling stock, just updated wheels and road names/paint schemes. Nice video.
haha yeah - it's bizarre isn't it? There are a few who defend Bachmann even if it makes no sense to do so... maybe that's it? It's a kinder explanation than just assuming people are insane ;)
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
because of your channel i got 2 train sets both batterie powered
It might be interesting to do a similar experiment that also includes second-hand locos at different price points: what loco can you get at which price point: Tri-ang loco, old Hornby/Bachmann loco, modern locos with budget DC, detailed DC, DCC, and DCC sound. Probably most easily done with a very common loco, like the A4, or the Scotsman.
Alternatively: set a budget of, say, 200 GBP to buy a passenger train of a kind that has general appeal and explore what you can get: just the loco, second-hand loco plus coaches, maybe even a complete train set? Is digital possible? Is sound possible?
All relevant questions that buyers face unless they have an unlimited budget.
You might be able to do these by looking up prices online, but demonstrate locos from your own collection. You seem to have a very wide range.
Sam I have the Hornby Hall class great runner and detail I will not be buying another Bachman steam Loco their prices are outrageous.
I bought the Hornby model for less than half price of the Bachmann model so it's a no brainer considering its a better performer!
Hornby for me is a reliable locomotive brand. Bachmann for me focuses on details. And dapol and Oxford models create the most beautiful rolling stock
And the best thing about Hornby is that they focus on British trains which are my favorite
Nice video! I do have a question, not on these two locomotives, but on another manufacture. Have you ever heard of ACE Trains, and, if so, what do you think of them? I am thinking about getting one of their Black 5s, but I wanted to do some research first. Thanks, and happy railroading!
Nice i would imagine bachmann re tooling their hall class in 2030 maybe
That'd be cool! It probably will be a few years off as you say... too many Halls about at the moment! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I was going to say the obvious criteria for a fair comparison is price. The Bachmann, costing so much more should have romped home but it didn't.
Not having watched it yet, my money's on Bachmann. Hornby really seems to have gone down the pan a bit in recent years compared with other manufacturers (not least having lost the moral high ground when it comes to smaller competitors!).
Edit: Having finished the video - I shan't spoil the result, but that was very interesting!
The performance must be due to the difference in the motors and gearing.
I wonder if it is possible to fit the Hornby motor into the Bachmann loco?
Yeah I think so! It's something I'm going to have a stab at - now I have a 3D printer I may be able to make motor mountings for better motors!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Great idea for another video. Fitting a Hornby motor into a Bachmann or other makers locos. I always wondered if it could be done and technically I don't see why not. I guess the shaft diameter and length of the motors will be the determining factors. Looking forward to it. I always thought the old Tri-ang motors were pretty reliable even for a 3 pole. As long as you cleaned the commutators and brushes occasionally they just seemed to go and go. These Hornby 5 pole seem to be much better, which they should be given they are a much newer design.
I think I have an idea, get a Hogwarts Castle loco and a second hand Bachmann Hall and transplant the best of both worlds into one loco, you get decent performance with aesthetic detail to match, and because it's Hornby you can use the DCC sound decoder specific to the Hall class
My favourite GWR 4-6-0 Class, The Hall and Modified Hall Classes, they are incredibly lovely locomotives and I have stood on the footplate of 4953 Pitchford Hall, at the Great Central Railway in 2010, and she was brilliant and they are always my favourite GWR locomotives!
Can I request you to do a Hornby VS Bachmann LMS Black 5 or 8F, if you can?
hi Sam I have hornbys rood ashton Hall which is a main range hall class not railroad
Hi sam I hope you're ok
I think the bachmann has always been better on detail but the hornby is the better runner