I also noticed that if rope end is worned out it makes it harder to untie as well... But would need more experiments to prove that ;) Aaaand let's see how many comments I get that bowline is better :D yea... it's easier to untie, but not the point of my video ;)
@@AW-po7jr no, not going to... Because it doesn't result into actionable conclusion ;) It's obvious that you shouldn't climb on worned out out ends anyway... I have better content coming
Easily one of the most useful climbing/gear videos I've ever seen! I'd been taught how to correctly tie the knot, but not to tighten it one strand at a time. Amazing.
After 17 years of climbing this is surprising, but most appreciated information. It makes perfectly sense, and thank you for showing it. Hardest part when watching this however was, that we had to wait almost to the end before the curtain was lifted and the secret was unveiled. So glad I learned this now.
Tip: If you do use a Yosemite backup and it's stuck after some hard falls, clip in a biner to the backup loop as shown BUT don't pull, twist it like you're wringing out a wet towel. Keep twisting and you'll get way more leverage to pull out the tail, then you can untie the rest as normal. Or, y'know, just ditch the backup and do what he says in the video :)
Thank you! Most edifying! I have never paid attention to whether the load line is on the top or bottom and, consequently, have always been baffled by why *some* of my figure-8s are easy to untie after a load and others are an incredible pain.
This explains so much about my experience with fig-8s! I had so much trouble with hard-to-untie knots that I switched to a bowline. It also explains why other people I know had no problem untying their knots. Now I will experiment again with well-tied fig-8s 😊
You just proved me right in a friendly argument I had last year about better ways of tieing a figure 8. I noticed the positioning of the load on top and middle differences a few years back. Great video.
I have started to pay more attention to how I've been tying the figure 8 and by keeping the load loop inside the end loop it certainly makes a huge difference. Thank you so much.
Brilliant video! The most common is the people who do an overlap when tie the not... Usually it is for lack of info... Good job and great effort you did... Videos like this is what the community needs! 😄😄
Loved the video. I think being a beginner, I fell into the trap of thinking "if I tie loosely, the knot will remain loosely and will be easier to untie" which apparently was blatantly wrong. :o Thank you for the testing, this was really interesting!
@@HardIsEasy I feel like when I see the video, it's seems so obvious that the results are as shown (tight being easier to untie and the comparison at the end as well) but I still didn't really make the connection myself beforehand. So thank you for the light bulb moment :)
In my experience there is a sweet spot in the middle. If you pull the knot really really tight it gets harder to untie (especially if you didn’t take a fall).
When you discover things you didn't know you didn't know. Thought I knew how to tie a figure of 8. I think the difficulty comes in tying it in the follow through method as there's lots of ways to follow it wrong to setup for the fusing scenario. Interesting that I must be kind of inconsistent because sometimes I do it write and I have no problem, then sometimes I do it wrong and really have to struggle. Thanks for bring out the nuances of tying a figure of 8. Very interesting.
@@HardIsEasy definitely will pay attention to this. The next 25 years will answer this. Thank you for pointing this out. Found you today and I'm devouring your videos, and clicking the ads once in a while; You deserve it!
Thanks for that Video. I didn't realise, i usually tie up my Fig.8 with the loaded strand in the middle... That's why i never had any issues, untying my knot. Thanks for your work.
Thanks for these experiments! I switched to bowlines a long time ago, because I always had trouble opening the figure 8 after a fall - especially with the sticky ropes in our gym. I'll try it next time.
Thank you for all that effort! Brilliantly presented. After more than 50 years of tying the load rope on the top because I was told it had a greater radius I’ve now to relearn to tie it correctly!!
I just joined the channel because you really put effort on it ,and you finish with conclusions which make this sport better. Thanks for those great videos
This is brilliant, thanks! I never realised the difference between load line routing and how it could make a difference. Would be good to see if there's actually any difference in the breaking load of both, not that it would make any real world difference, clearly the load line in the middle is better for untying.
Even though I don’t use the figure 8 anymore, I still like how much effort you put into this video. I subbed and I am looking forward to watch all of your quality content
Im just starting with climbing and I feel yout videos save me years of experience to learn some deep concepts, amazing content, keep uploading strict and scientific videos :D
As a climbing gym that uses indirect tying-in (with a safebiner), we actually use the harder-to-untie-version at 16:14 :), this is to prevent two things: 1. climbers untieing the knots and putting bad ones back in 2. the visually good looking one gets an extra loop after a while (because the top of the knot is not being loaded, it's being loaded half-way the top becomes looser), which climbers could unintentionally tie into, which would be disastrous. Super interesting video!
@@HardIsEasy Yes this is only for toproping. The figure eight is already made. The climber ties himself into the loop with a safebiner such as a belaymaster or Smart HMS (other biners are not allowed due to possible cross-loading)
@@devonrd in my gym for the top roping we have two semi-auto locking carabiners always fixed into figure 8 or bowline loop so nobody gets to untie the knot or unclip the carabiners off the rope which is fairly safe
Although I am not a rock climber, I found this episode very interesting. Expanding my knowledge is a passion of mine. This information will be shared with my wife's grandson who is a firefighter. Hopefully his training has them using the correct way of tying the figure 8 knot. Thank you for sharing.
I'm unfamiliar but unsure if big falls on the knot are a large enough concern in that line of work, and remember if it ties too hard you can always cut the rope. Otherwise both ways are correct safety wise. It still doesn't hurt to tie in this way. I think always tying the same way might be a good idea, if you are having an especially bad day it might help to spot something's not right.
Thank you so much for all the work you do for the community. I come from a tree climber background but still find all of your content extremely relevant.
It's been interesting to see the practice change around this. In my Mountaineer's handbook from the early 90s, it shows the rope going around the outside, including around the top of the loop and at the end. Now we pull it through the inner loop - much easier to untie!
So, I am at 9:18 viewing this... but I cannot help but wonder if you also controlled whether a difference in untying times could also have something to do with which knot was closest to the floor vs ceiling. I know that intuitively it would seem not to be necessary to check that... but I don't think what is intuitive is necessarily true. (Sorry for bring this up... because checking that would be a lot more work. Great and very useful video. Thank you. I find all of your videos to be very well done, and very detailed. Also... if you always drop it from the same height, and do not throw it down, I would think that would be a more consistent set of forces and therefore reduce a margin of error that may be due to one more variable. That said, real life falls all will have variations in the resulting forces, right?
In the Toyota Lean production system the main goal is to keep the ropes tight. Stay organized, stay clean...to see the problem, the missing things, or any defect. But here is the real meaning of this sentence. Keep the rope tight to save your life and make easier your life to untie a knot after a fall. Just a tiny differences, but at the end the difference is reeeeealy huge. Thanks man!
The crossed inner strands on a figure 8... That drives my OCD crazy to even see. But i was never worried about tightening them down tight. Now I think I will.
Brilliant! (You may not be the first person to figure this out, but I'll give you credit because I've never seen it anywhere else.) Thanks for adding to the collective knowledge!
Awesome video! I always have problems undoing my Figure 8, especially after a couple hard falls. Tried reversing my follow through as well as snugging up the 4 rope ends out of the knot during the last few climbing sessions since watching this video. It was so easy to untie!
I agree you put out great videos, and I'm learning a ton. But what I really love about your videos is your sense of humor. Every video I'm laughing my ass off at something. Great content man! 👌
Something to note: you untie knots correctly. You push the loops of the knot apart. Most people I teach (I'm an instructor) try to pull the tag end or load strand out of the knot, rather than pushing the loops up, over the the two strands of rope where they exit the knot. Great video! I hope people watching notice that you push the knot apart, rather than trying to pull strands out. It makes a huge difference in untying.
I only use a figure 8 knot when using half ropes. For sport climbing on a single rope I use a bowline on a bight and would recommend for everyone. It’s just as easy to tie and always easy to untie. Another advantage is that there is no knot in the rope after you’ve finished untying. I’ve had cases where I (as a belayer) started pulling down the rope but my climber hadn’t removed his knot from the rope. Got stuck at the top of the route and we had to borrow a second rope to get it down.
Thanks for the great video! I generally tie clean figure 8s without any twists and tighten them and mostly don't have trouble untying them, but I'll need to check where the load line ends up. I had never paid attention to that. I'll comment on the Yosemite follow through. I use that and do find that it makes untying easier. I leave a somewhat bigger loop before the follow through, giving more rope to grab when pulling it out. Also, it would make a big difference if the knot is still tied to your harness. This gives something to pull against so you are not just pulling on it with your two hands. You would be able to generate much more force. That being said, I'll have to compare the follow through with a knot with the load line in the middle. Thanks!
Thank you Hard Is Easy!! Love your videos. This Climbing Human will definitely make sure to have dress my knot, have load line thru the middle of knot, and not have any crossed strands.
Would like to add that few people know or bother to tie a "dressed up" figure of 8. This should also reduce time of untying. You do so, but it will be beneficial to the community to show how to do it. Thank you for the videos.
Yosemite is actually easy to screw up if you tighten in the wrong order. Best thing about f8 is that it's essentially foolproof AND incredibly easy to inspect.
Have a look at scotts locked bowline. Super simple, fast, and one of the most secure bowline variants. It's kinda absurd that it wasn't discovered and used decades ago
@@johnliungman1333 Scotts is just super simple, and also very secure. www.paci.com.au/knots.php has a 77 page write up on loads of variations of bowlines, the very last page has the secure variants
"Start hard, finish easy" is all you gotta do. Leads to the least time taken to dress the knot. That it happens to untie easier is just icing on the cake.
Ive only been climbing for 7 months. Ive never had an issue untying my double figure 8's. But ill thank the gym staff for correctly teaching me how to tie the double figure 8
Yes, me too. Since I don't do competitions (where a figure 8 is required) I learned it. It convinced me that they use this knot to secure huge ships and are still able to easily open it :) Works like a charm - even with the sticky ropes in climbing gyms.
very well done and interesting video. thank you. someone should follow this with failure testing. The load line in the middle vs on top is likely going to be slightly stronger if it is easier to untie. Adding the third strand under the load line by passing the end back through will almost certainly yield stronger knot. the figure 8 is not very strong as knots go, as the load line easily cuts one of the two lines to the climber. adding a third to dissipate some of the cutting force should improve the ultimate failure strength of the knot (fraction of the rope strength).
And here I was blaming the knot for being difficult to untie, when it was mostly my fault. But I think I'll still use double bowline, just because I think there is less room for stupid errors when doing it correctly. But I'll definetely try to check which variation of figure 8 I do when tying in. Probably both. Anyways, I think Your channel is evolving in the right direction, from being just another climbing vlog to seriously interesting and useful content. Keep it up! ;)
Thanks Buddy! Amazing coment! Bowline is great, but lots of bowline users neglect the fact that a lot of people don't know how to double check it ;) So if your partner does - amazing... keep in mind that there are 5 bowline variations and some random partner might just nod - yea yea good climb, but actually don't admit that he's confused looking at your knot ;)
It is very interesting, in speleology, the reverse method of knitting the figure of eight is used, when the cargo end passes over the top of the node and is also quite strict, but there are completely different operating conditions
Very helpul and clear instructions, thank you. Just a small note: Never use screwdriver for opening stubborn knots, even climbers should have a marlinspike in their toolbag :)
I will still stick with my bowline with double stop knot, but this is really interesting, I never thought that there was 2 ways to tie a figure of 8 knot. Thanks for the video !
fwiw, setting the knot by pulling each strand individually is called 'dressing the knot'. It ensures that the stress is (theoretically) distributed over the whole knot - using all the rope in the knot to take the load & not have one part of the knot pinch down on one strand both save wear on your rope & lower the risk of a break...fun fact, any knot, even a mild knot like a figure-8, lowers the max load a rope can take - under lab (overload) conditions, ropes break at the knots. Carry a 'marlinspike'. If you must use a screwdriver, use a Philips head. 👋
Absolutely great made and entertaining. I was not sure if I could learn something when I started the video and than boom - excellent and thank you for sharing :)
One of the most interesting didactic climbing video ever! Thank you so much. I would like to see the difference in rope breaking with different knot variations...
That's super interesting how weird the figure of 8 ends up when it's not tightened properly 💡Not gonna lie, messy and not well dressed knot is def one of my pet hates. Equally interesting too how much of a difference it is to have your loaded strand in the middle instead of on top 👌
verrrrry interesting! didnt know that load strand on bottom is better. I actually guessed to myself that the opposite would be true.... but this is why we test things.
I also noticed that if rope end is worned out it makes it harder to untie as well... But would need more experiments to prove that ;)
Aaaand let's see how many comments I get that bowline is better :D yea... it's easier to untie, but not the point of my video ;)
Oh, phuck. I was going to ask you about it...hahahaha. Great video!
This could be related with Freestyle's palm frictioning method which mentioned in comments. There still so much to discover lol 😂
Do you really want to test if a worned out is harder to untie? That’s proving the obvious 😎
@@AW-po7jr no, not going to... Because it doesn't result into actionable conclusion ;) It's obvious that you shouldn't climb on worned out out ends anyway... I have better content coming
@@HardIsEasy I would still love to see if this also applies to bowlin.
Easily one of the most useful climbing/gear videos I've ever seen! I'd been taught how to correctly tie the knot, but not to tighten it one strand at a time. Amazing.
After 17 years of climbing this is surprising, but most appreciated information. It makes perfectly sense, and thank you for showing it. Hardest part when watching this however was, that we had to wait almost to the end before the curtain was lifted and the secret was unveiled. So glad I learned this now.
Tip: If you do use a Yosemite backup and it's stuck after some hard falls, clip in a biner to the backup loop as shown BUT don't pull, twist it like you're wringing out a wet towel. Keep twisting and you'll get way more leverage to pull out the tail, then you can untie the rest as normal.
Or, y'know, just ditch the backup and do what he says in the video :)
Thank you! Most edifying!
I have never paid attention to whether the load line is on the top or bottom and, consequently, have always been baffled by why *some* of my figure-8s are easy to untie after a load and others are an incredible pain.
Because you didn't know the right way to do it.
This explains so much about my experience with fig-8s! I had so much trouble with hard-to-untie knots that I switched to a bowline. It also explains why other people I know had no problem untying their knots. Now I will experiment again with well-tied fig-8s 😊
You just proved me right in a friendly argument I had last year about better ways of tieing a figure 8. I noticed the positioning of the load on top and middle differences a few years back. Great video.
I have started to pay more attention to how I've been tying the figure 8 and by keeping the load loop inside the end loop it certainly makes a huge difference. Thank you so much.
Wow cool, thanks for letting know it works ;)
2020, valluable knowledge about figure 8 node still had to be discovered xD
Suuure :D have more secrets ?
Crazy...
Brilliant video! The most common is the people who do an overlap when tie the not... Usually it is for lack of info... Good job and great effort you did... Videos like this is what the community needs! 😄😄
Thanks buddy!
I've realized that I ALWAYS used the variant of figure 8 knot that hard to untie ;( I need the next video ASAP!
Was intrigued on how you could make a 20 min video on one knot........now i know. Well done , learned alot. Thanks.
Haha oups :)))
13:25 the secret inner circle knowledge of the figure of 8 knot 😊
Loved the video. I think being a beginner, I fell into the trap of thinking "if I tie loosely, the knot will remain loosely and will be easier to untie" which apparently was blatantly wrong. :o Thank you for the testing, this was really interesting!
Super glad it was helpful as much as it was interesting for me to do it ;)
@@HardIsEasy I feel like when I see the video, it's seems so obvious that the results are as shown (tight being easier to untie and the comparison at the end as well) but I still didn't really make the connection myself beforehand. So thank you for the light bulb moment :)
In my experience there is a sweet spot in the middle. If you pull the knot really really tight it gets harder to untie (especially if you didn’t take a fall).
Makes sense to tighten before loading, because at least you get to control the final shape of the knot before the load tries to change it.
Omg. As a highliner this just changed my life. So many whips and can still untie my 8 easily now. Thanks!!!!
Woohooo, it's amazing to get real life confirmation that it works for other as well!
When you discover things you didn't know you didn't know. Thought I knew how to tie a figure of 8. I think the difficulty comes in tying it in the follow through method as there's lots of ways to follow it wrong to setup for the fusing scenario. Interesting that I must be kind of inconsistent because sometimes I do it write and I have no problem, then sometimes I do it wrong and really have to struggle. Thanks for bring out the nuances of tying a figure of 8. Very interesting.
Yea find a way that works and stick to it ;)
I'll share mine in a future video ;)
Oh, and that's a life fact that you don't know what you don't know ;)
Ohh boy, I just relearned how to do a figure of 8, after 25 years doing it!
Haha well if it was working for you maybe no need to change now? :))))
@@HardIsEasy definitely will pay attention to this. The next 25 years will answer this. Thank you for pointing this out. Found you today and I'm devouring your videos, and clicking the ads once in a while; You deserve it!
@@NunoLeitaoTheEpiq hahaaa thank you so much!!! Don't click ads, just click join button instead ;)
I hope one day I can make my vids ad free
@@NunoLeitaoTheEpiq and yea let me know how it was after 25 years... Gonna be nice long term study ;)
Thanks for that Video. I didn't realise, i usually tie up my Fig.8 with the loaded strand in the middle... That's why i never had any issues, untying my knot. Thanks for your work.
Appreciate it ;)
Thanks for these experiments! I switched to bowlines a long time ago, because I always had trouble opening the figure 8 after a fall - especially with the sticky ropes in our gym. I'll try it next time.
Thank you for all that effort! Brilliantly presented. After more than 50 years of tying the load rope on the top because I was told it had a greater radius I’ve now to relearn to tie it correctly!!
Thanks Chris... I'm still trying to find out if there is any real benefit of load line on top...
I just joined the channel because you really put effort on it ,and you finish with conclusions which make this sport better. Thanks for those great videos
Thank you sooo much Abdullah!
This is brilliant, thanks! I never realised the difference between load line routing and how it could make a difference. Would be good to see if there's actually any difference in the breaking load of both, not that it would make any real world difference, clearly the load line in the middle is better for untying.
Even though I don’t use the figure 8 anymore, I still like how much effort you put into this video. I subbed and I am looking forward to watch all of your quality content
Apreciate it ;)
What knot do you use then double bowline? End bound single bowline??
SREALDAN Double bowline, have fun!
Im just starting with climbing and I feel yout videos save me years of experience to learn some deep concepts, amazing content, keep uploading strict and scientific videos :D
This is brilliant! Thank you for putting in all the hard work, highly appreciated. Cheers from Germany :-)
As a climbing gym that uses indirect tying-in (with a safebiner), we actually use the harder-to-untie-version at 16:14 :), this is to prevent two things:
1. climbers untieing the knots and putting bad ones back in
2. the visually good looking one gets an extra loop after a while (because the top of the knot is not being loaded, it's being loaded half-way the top becomes looser), which climbers could unintentionally tie into, which would be disastrous.
Super interesting video!
What is an indirect tying in? Does it have something to do with top roping?
@@HardIsEasy Yes this is only for toproping. The figure eight is already made. The climber ties himself into the loop with a safebiner such as a belaymaster or Smart HMS (other biners are not allowed due to possible cross-loading)
@@devonrd in my gym for the top roping we have two semi-auto locking carabiners always fixed into figure 8 or bowline loop so nobody gets to untie the knot or unclip the carabiners off the rope which is fairly safe
In my gym they put heat shrink tube around the knots to prevent people from untying them.
@@Mike-oz4cv heat is applied to the knot? 😲
Although I am not a rock climber, I found this episode very interesting. Expanding my knowledge is a passion of mine. This information will be shared with my wife's grandson who is a firefighter. Hopefully his training has them using the correct way of tying the figure 8 knot. Thank you for sharing.
I'm unfamiliar but unsure if big falls on the knot are a large enough concern in that line of work, and remember if it ties too hard you can always cut the rope. Otherwise both ways are correct safety wise. It still doesn't hurt to tie in this way. I think always tying the same way might be a good idea, if you are having an especially bad day it might help to spot something's not right.
After several years of climbing, I've just started to climb in the lead (and fall). Perfect timing to discover this video. So useful !
Thank you so much for all the work you do for the community. I come from a tree climber background but still find all of your content extremely relevant.
It's been interesting to see the practice change around this. In my Mountaineer's handbook from the early 90s, it shows the rope going around the outside, including around the top of the loop and at the end. Now we pull it through the inner loop - much easier to untie!
I pride myself in my f8s but I had not realised the difference between loadline top or center. Thank you for your amazing content.
8 years of climbing and this is the first time I hear about positioning of the load strand inside the knot. You Sir, have just blown my mind 👏👏👏
So, I am at 9:18 viewing this... but I cannot help but wonder if you also controlled whether a difference in untying times could also have something to do with which knot was closest to the floor vs ceiling. I know that intuitively it would seem not to be necessary to check that... but I don't think what is intuitive is necessarily true. (Sorry for bring this up... because checking that would be a lot more work. Great and very useful video. Thank you. I find all of your videos to be very well done, and very detailed. Also... if you always drop it from the same height, and do not throw it down, I would think that would be a more consistent set of forces and therefore reduce a margin of error that may be due to one more variable. That said, real life falls all will have variations in the resulting forces, right?
Wow! Big difference! Thank you!
Thanks 👍
Thanks!
Thank You as well!
In the Toyota Lean production system the main goal is to keep the ropes tight. Stay organized, stay clean...to see the problem, the missing things, or any defect. But here is the real meaning of this sentence. Keep the rope tight to save your life and make easier your life to untie a knot after a fall.
Just a tiny differences, but at the end the difference is reeeeealy huge. Thanks man!
Thank you to for nice comment !
The crossed inner strands on a figure 8... That drives my OCD crazy to even see. But i was never worried about tightening them down tight. Now I think I will.
Brilliant! (You may not be the first person to figure this out, but I'll give you credit because I've never seen it anywhere else.) Thanks for adding to the collective knowledge!
Haha I don't need credits :) I'm just happy to share my findings that's all ;) thanks ;)
Thanks for these experiments, they spared me a lot of headache (and also protect my brand new rope). I love the style of your videos!
Thanks a lot ;) I'm sure you gonna love new series that I'm working on atm ;)
Educational and entertaining, as always
Love it!
Awesome video! I always have problems undoing my Figure 8, especially after a couple hard falls. Tried reversing my follow through as well as snugging up the 4 rope ends out of the knot during the last few climbing sessions since watching this video. It was so easy to untie!
Amazing I love people coming back to say that it actually works for them as well! Thanks!
What an in-depth about figure 8. Well done and lots of great info!
Great analysis! Been using this knot for years and still so much to learn about it.
This is sick. I've been wanting this knowledge for years! This is the definitive guide to tying figure 8s
Haha for years you had trouble with your knots? :)))
@@HardIsEasy yes! I even had to cut the knot off my harness once after a long session
@@marklide3492 haha great, try my tips and let me know if it actually makes a difference, I'm super interested
I agree you put out great videos, and I'm learning a ton. But what I really love about your videos is your sense of humor. Every video I'm laughing my ass off at something. Great content man! 👌
smart ass connection :D
@@HardIsEasy 🤣
Me too, on all counts.
I have been meaning to test this for a while but haven't had the time. Thank you for making this video!!
This is so worth a subscribtion. So much work put into something thats so useful for so many people.
Hey thank you sooo much!
Something to note: you untie knots correctly. You push the loops of the knot apart.
Most people I teach (I'm an instructor) try to pull the tag end or load strand out of the knot, rather than pushing the loops up, over the the two strands of rope where they exit the knot.
Great video! I hope people watching notice that you push the knot apart, rather than trying to pull strands out. It makes a huge difference in untying.
yea that's a really fantastic comment! I need to plug this in one of my vids...
I like these tests, I like the scientific approach!
After 40 years of climbing I'm still learning , thanks buddy
Haha, thank you as well ;)
I only use a figure 8 knot when using half ropes. For sport climbing on a single rope I use a bowline on a bight and would recommend for everyone. It’s just as easy to tie and always easy to untie. Another advantage is that there is no knot in the rope after you’ve finished untying. I’ve had cases where I (as a belayer) started pulling down the rope but my climber hadn’t removed his knot from the rope. Got stuck at the top of the route and we had to borrow a second rope to get it down.
Thank you I have been teaching this but not knowing why it worked. Well done on a fantastic video!!!!!
Thanks for the great video! I generally tie clean figure 8s without any twists and tighten them and mostly don't have trouble untying them, but I'll need to check where the load line ends up. I had never paid attention to that. I'll comment on the Yosemite follow through. I use that and do find that it makes untying easier. I leave a somewhat bigger loop before the follow through, giving more rope to grab when pulling it out. Also, it would make a big difference if the knot is still tied to your harness. This gives something to pull against so you are not just pulling on it with your two hands. You would be able to generate much more force. That being said, I'll have to compare the follow through with a knot with the load line in the middle. Thanks!
Man, this is a gold tip! Thanks for that!
Thank you Hard Is Easy!! Love your videos. This Climbing Human will definitely make sure to have dress my knot, have load line thru the middle of knot, and not have any crossed strands.
Thanks ;) let me know if you see any actual difference
Would like to add that few people know or bother to tie a "dressed up" figure of 8. This should also reduce time of untying. You do so, but it will be beneficial to the community to show how to do it. Thank you for the videos.
Yea I made a follow up video on this ;)
Thanks for taking the time and making the effort to do all this testing and making it into a video. Really helpful and awesome stuff!
Very welcome!
Those details make a climber pro! thanks for sharing
That is why i rather use a bowline ... yosemity or double
but thank you for the info how to make the figure 8 easier to untie
Yea, bowline is fine, just be aware if your partner actually knows how to check it ;)
Yosemite is actually easy to screw up if you tighten in the wrong order. Best thing about f8 is that it's essentially foolproof AND incredibly easy to inspect.
Have a look at scotts locked bowline. Super simple, fast, and one of the most secure bowline variants. It's kinda absurd that it wasn't discovered and used decades ago
Charlie Palmer This was new to me (have been using a regular yosemite finish). Do you see any advantages of ”scotts” compared to ”lee’s” ?
@@johnliungman1333 Scotts is just super simple, and also very secure.
www.paci.com.au/knots.php has a 77 page write up on loads of variations of bowlines, the very last page has the secure variants
Excellent video, again. There is always room for something new, even things as 'basic' as knot. Thank you
Thanks a lot Kuluar!
Danke!
Bite!
"Start hard, finish easy" is all you gotta do. Leads to the least time taken to dress the knot. That it happens to untie easier is just icing on the cake.
Thank you for all the time you take making videos and testing gear
Good job! Thanks for taking the time (and the ropes) to do the experiment. Language is so accessible (not a science nerd conversation)....sweet!
Thank you as well ;)
Ive only been climbing for 7 months. Ive never had an issue untying my double figure 8's. But ill thank the gym staff for correctly teaching me how to tie the double figure 8
Díky!
Thank you David!
Great video! I would love to see a video on the figure 8 knot vs the old school sport bowline. My wife and I prefer the sport bowline.
If you are using one of the safe variations of bowline - it's a good knot, just keep in mind that most people don't know how to double check it ;)
Great experiment. Shows that there is depth to even simple systems. Thanks.
Mind blown! Very informative. I've been climbing for 20+ years. Turns out I'm still a gumbie 🙈
16:56 how to properly tie off the figure 8.
Great work!
I just use a doubled bowline knot. Never hard to untie ;)
Yes, me too. Since I don't do competitions (where a figure 8 is required) I learned it. It convinced me that they use this knot to secure huge ships and are still able to easily open it :)
Works like a charm - even with the sticky ropes in climbing gyms.
very well done and interesting video. thank you. someone should follow this with failure testing. The load line in the middle vs on top is likely going to be slightly stronger if it is easier to untie. Adding the third strand under the load line by passing the end back through will almost certainly yield stronger knot. the figure 8 is not very strong as knots go, as the load line easily cuts one of the two lines to the climber. adding a third to dissipate some of the cutting force should improve the ultimate failure strength of the knot (fraction of the rope strength).
And here I was blaming the knot for being difficult to untie, when it was mostly my fault. But I think I'll still use double bowline, just because I think there is less room for stupid errors when doing it correctly. But I'll definetely try to check which variation of figure 8 I do when tying in. Probably both.
Anyways, I think Your channel is evolving in the right direction, from being just another climbing vlog to seriously interesting and useful content. Keep it up! ;)
Thanks Buddy! Amazing coment!
Bowline is great, but lots of bowline users neglect the fact that a lot of people don't know how to double check it ;)
So if your partner does - amazing... keep in mind that there are 5 bowline variations and some random partner might just nod - yea yea good climb, but actually don't admit that he's confused looking at your knot ;)
It is very interesting, in speleology, the reverse method of knitting the figure of eight is used, when the cargo end passes over the top of the node and is also quite strict, but there are completely different operating conditions
Amazing. Thank you for doing this. I never thought about the load-line going on top or in the middle before.
Very helpul and clear instructions, thank you. Just a small note: Never use screwdriver for opening stubborn knots, even climbers should have a marlinspike in their toolbag :)
Excellent info, thank you for putting this much effort and quality into sharing this information! New subscriber!
I will still stick with my bowline with double stop knot, but this is really interesting, I never thought that there was 2 ways to tie a figure of 8 knot. Thanks for the video !
Haha your welcome ;)
Great experiments and nice conclusion . Thanks
Thanks a lot! So elegant way to explain what I couldn't understand!
Nice Work, amazing how a very common thing can reveal some new stuff ! Thank you for your work !
Haha thanks as well ;)
Great video! Thanks for all your hard work!
Brilliant. This video should be sent to all climbing instructors ASAP. :-)
Haha, yea I'm curious why a lot of them say you need load strand on top... But I'm gonna check on this more ;)
Love you bro. Awesome channel, I really appreciate your such hard work on such quality videos, which can make us easily understand.
Great, great work, my friend. Respect
fwiw, setting the knot by pulling each strand individually is called 'dressing the knot'. It ensures that the stress is (theoretically) distributed over the whole knot - using all the rope in the knot to take the load & not have one part of the knot pinch down on one strand both save wear on your rope & lower the risk of a break...fun fact, any knot, even a mild knot like a figure-8, lowers the max load a rope can take - under lab (overload) conditions, ropes break at the knots.
Carry a 'marlinspike'. If you must use a screwdriver, use a Philips head.
👋
Thanks for this very instructive video.
Absolutely great made and entertaining. I was not sure if I could learn something when I started the video and than boom - excellent and thank you for sharing :)
Boom ;) glad I didn't wasted your time ;)
This is the greatest 20 mins I have spent on TH-cam
"Hi there, rock climbing humans..."
4 seconds in and love this video!
You have a very “Alexander Supertramp” vibe. In other words a pretty chill, cool dude.
Dude, this is awesome. Now I can explain to my friend why his neatly dressed figure eight still binds up!
Muy buena explicación, aunque un poco larga.!!!...gracias.!
One of the most interesting didactic climbing video ever! Thank you so much. I would like to see the difference in rope breaking with different knot variations...
th-cam.com/video/Re5ZZjc41kQ/w-d-xo.html
Enjoy :D
That's super interesting how weird the figure of 8 ends up when it's not tightened properly 💡Not gonna lie, messy and not well dressed knot is def one of my pet hates.
Equally interesting too how much of a difference it is to have your loaded strand in the middle instead of on top 👌
Yeap I was surprised as well... But when I saw weird stuff in real life it just confirmed that the knot needs to be dressed well
verrrrry interesting! didnt know that load strand on bottom is better. I actually guessed to myself that the opposite would be true.... but this is why we test things.
The more you know! Relearning this now :) Thank You!!!
its eazy 1st top strand and the bottom 3rd strand pull away👍👍good video
Such a dedication... awesome.
Thanks for the hard work !