I'm surprised that 48A EVSE is set up to run on a 50A circuit. Normally, a circuit should only be operated at 80% of its rated output continuously. That would limit a 50A circuit to 40A continuous power. I would hard-wire a 48A EVSE to a 60A circuit for safety purposes.
I'm not an electrician, but what I have read is that the 80% rule is a hold-over from more traditional devices like air-conditioners, that often have spikes in current when starting up compressors or whatever. EVs draw a stable/constant current, and so can come closer to a circuit's rated limit.
Correct and 48A needs to be hardwired in every jurisdiction I know of. I install 240v circuits for EV charging and I've never had an application above a 40A EVSE with a 14-50 plug. I have a Ford Charge Station Pro and I use it on a 40A circuit (32A output to vehicle) and it is hardwire only due to being capable of 80A charging. Could be due to the lower than 240v commercial circuit, however, that allows a plug aka the old amps x voltage calculation aka 48A x 208v = 9.9 KW...
@@TheZeusJuice Nope. A 50A circuit is only legally allowed to deliver 40A continuously. Tesla's 48A charger requires it to be hard-wired to a 60A circuit.
if y'all wanna study Charging 201 and maybe charging 301, Technology Connections has a far more indepth vid on charging... and why you really don't need as much charging as you think...
For some reason when they do these garage videos, they whisper, use poor mics, or the reception is bad. They have so many good locations to use where everything is top notch, it is a shame they still use the garage as a studio. Albeit, this specific video needed to be done there for the charging station. But yes, my volume was all the way up and still was not sufficient.
Your 48amp evsc (charger)wall charger is wired incorrectly. 48amp chargers to be able to charge at 48amps must be hard wired to a 60amp breaker and not be used on a nema 14-50 plug. A nema 14-50 plug for max output must be wired to a 50amp breaker and can only support a max charge rate of 40amps.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets. BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
Level 1 at 8 amp on my Bolt EV 64 kWh battery is surprisingly good in winter. Keeps the battery from freezing and works with an extension cord. 12 hours it will spend 4 hours heating the battery and then add range for 8 hours which is fine for commuting in the city.
As a first time EV owner, this is great information to have. I was always wondering what I needed at home to charge my truck. Plus every single person wants to know how long does it take to charge, 2nd most common question. (1st being how far can I go). It is just not a one number answer.
Guys, that 48 amp EVSE needs to be hardwired. It cannot be safely plugged into that 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet because you can only draw 80% of a circuits rated capacity. It’s violating electrical code and risks a fire.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets. BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
Just a little note, if your electric panel is in your garage the cost to have the outlet installed can be as cheap as around $350. At lest where I live most of the newer townhouses have the electric panels installed in the garage so it's fairly cheap if you want it by the panel. The extra cost comes from when they have to run lines from the basement or if you want it on the other side of the garage.
My Rav4 Prime as allowed me to slowly ease into the world of charging. The base SE model can charge at a max of 3-3.3KW, which gives me about 10-12 miles of range per hour. When considering what kind of Level 2 outlet I wanted installed in the garage, I also gave thought to realistically moving on to a full EV after the Rav4 is gone. I went with a Nema 6-20 (240v, 16amp) outlet. Since my regular daily commute is < 50 miles 90% of the time, and never > 100 miles (those very busy days running errands and shuttling kids around) the Nema should serve me well if I jump to an EV next since the NEMA 6-20 can very easily provide 100+ miles of juice over night. It's great to see charging options, but your average commuter shouldn't need to go to a more powerful/faster system.
Of course, you are assuming the same miles per kilowatt on both your future vehicle and everyone else’s; if the vehicle was just 30% heavier (opting for a bigger battery or larger passenger capacity), you would suddenly only get 6-8 miles per hour of charge, and only 60 miles over night.
The Lectron V-Box unit you are advertising seems not to carry a UL or ETL listing! And it does not even meet US electric code (NEC Article 625) which limits EVSE’s that plug into a receptacle to no be more than 40amps (and on a 50 amp breaker/receptacle). This is a little scary, and I think you should address this in a follow-up video. Also, minor note: “Level 3” does not exist in the SAE J1772-2017 Spec. It’s level 1, level 2, and DC fast charge.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets. BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
@@Cloud30000 Umm, sure guy. TFL should absolutely be recommending 240v equipment that hasn’t been safety tested at all in the US and continuously pulls 96% of the capacity of a 50 amp circuit in direct violation of the NEC. I’m sure their electrician said it was totally fine and that they should make a video recommending this to others.
@@rav4l2003 Do you understand how UL approval works? It requires a massive investment, and missing the label does not mean it isn’t tested, especially if it has been approved with other regulation boards like Europe who require the same strict criteria but don’t charge a ridiculous racket fee to use the label. I talked to two other licensed electricians I work with that have been doing this for 40 years, and they said that it may keep tripping the breaker but it won’t cause the circuit to catch fire and the cries of danger are from forum “experts” who sit at desks all day and get data from other forum “experts” in a self-sustaining cycle of donning-Kruger stupidity. Enjoy living in fear, and good luck telling everyone that the sky is falling on subjects you don’t understand.
I do think framing the question as "how long does it take to charge 0%-100% is slightly misleading. I think a good question to ask would be how much charge (how many miles) can you recoup in 8-10 hours. That way a person looking into EVs as a daily driver would know how robust their at home charging system would need to be for their usage instead of making it sound like you need the largest charger available.
Since charging is based on current state of charge, I've found it's easier to explain it in Miles per Hour. So, level 1/120v 4mph, Lvl 2/240 @ 16amps = 12mph, 32amps = 28pmh and so on.
@@Billy.80 you haven't learned about gas engine efficiency yet have you? You also sound like someone who goes around saying "but what about her emails"
@@aussie2uGA Not really since you would still only drive 30-40 miles the next day. No reason to charge to 100%. It's only if you need to drive long distances two days in a row that you need to find a fast DC charger.
Does the 48 Amp charger mounted on the wall have the ability to delay charging for certain times of day and night? And is that an important feature to have? I do realize some cars do it within their menu, but if I’m going to spend $500-$700, shouldn’t it have that feature built in to the wall mounted unit?
Not only is it super slow but level 1 will actually cost you more to charge with all the loss, like you mentioned all the electricity doesn’t make it to the car.
How do you figure? His level 1 was delivering 1.3kW, meaning ~11A, his other examples were a 32A and 48A charger. I2R losses would be much greater for the level 2 chargers.
@@azinor4767 don’t forget its less efficient to convert 110v Ac to 800 DC. (Ioniq 5 is 800v architecture). The cars display only shows what is being received and not what is actually going to the battery. Cars with thermal management also require the battery to be warmed to the right temperature. The longer it takes more energy is wasted to heating/cooling the battery. You forgot to calculate time. “The Ioniq guy” has a good video explaining the difference of cost. Cars with a 400v architecture and no thermal management wouldn’t see and much difference but time is still a factor. As heat and cold still play a role.
GM Chevy Cadillac Hummer Ultium batteries. Offer optional or standard on higher range vehicles 80 amp on a 100 amp circuit. 19.2 kW Level 2 at home or public. Older Model S Tesla's also can charge at 19.2 kW.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets. BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
@@Cloud30000 the point is not what TFL has in their studio, reviewed by a licenced electrtion or not, it's what their viewers will do with this information. But no worries, your comment clears everything up and now we all know NEC is just a suggestion and should be ignored.
@@phtofl I wish you the best of luck in explaining to homeowners what they are allowed to plug in to their homes, while claiming the NEC will burn down their house if they are defied. The only risk of damage is from a defective breaker, but even a 40 amp load can cause damage if the breaker is defective. The reason for the NEC code, again, is not due to danger; it is due to the breaker tripping at 100% load, causing no risk at all but constantly opening the circuit and cutting off power to the device connected to it. If their was really a danger posed by a 40amp load on a 50amp circuit, they would mandate breakers that tripped at 40 amps under the tested temperatures instead of 50 amps.
A couple things to note. Chargers aren't rated for their amperage output, they're rated at their kW output. The reasoning is that different sites will have different voltages - so in order to have a stable charge rate, you need to have variability in amperage. So in this case, the charger can output as much as 48A but it will only output as many amps as needed to reach the the rated charge rate. If the voltage is high the amperage will reduce to maintain the rated kW rating. The other is that in order to get a better estimate, you'll want to multiply the reported charge rate times 0.9 as there are efficiency losses.
That’s really helpful as I look at electric cars and my commute. I only have about 8 hours at home between shifts and I would need a full battery each morning.
Be wary if you're looking for EVs and are really time constrained for your charging interval vs distance, some of the math in this video can be a little hand-wavy depending on the vehicle (and he actually mentions overall charging restrictions when he brings up the Leaf). Every EV also has a charging curve, where they accept less power as they increase their state of charge, so it can be a bit misleading giving definitive charge time for a 0-100% scenario.
@@azinor4767 Charge curves only come into play with DC fast charging. With L2 charging, even at 11kw, the battery is going to fill at a constant rate the entire time.
Keep in mind that you will only need to replenish what you use. Unless you have a 300 mile round trip commute, you do not need to fully charge the battery every night. If you only use 50% of the battery for example, then you only need 4 hours to charge it.
@@lawrencemaroun3310 fair enough, I know my car tapers significantly above 90% for DCFC (less than 5kW for the last 5%), I assumed a similar taper for AC.
I don't think that Lectron uses the full 48A when plugged in via a NEMA connector. I think 48A is only available when hardwired. With the NEMA plug I think you're limited to 40A. Also be careful when removing your charging connectors. Don't wiggle them like that. Wiggling the connectors might over time cause the female connectors to loosen up, which causes resistance, which causes heat, which causes fires. Uh, no metaphor intended there.
where are you getting 50 amps. the 48 evse is on a 60 amp breaker. the 32 amp evse works on the same 60 amp breaker because the circuit supplies more than the evse can draw.
Look up the Grizzl-e EVSE. Rugged and outdoor rated. Also relatively inexpensive. Made in Canada. I have one of their "dumb" EVSE's in my driveway outside. No issues thus far.
Wow, yea sounds like they have, 3 phase wye service in a commercial building. That can be a common thing. Especially when large (higher voltage) electric motors are used. They aren't running any of those it looks like. The breaker should always be more, 80%? That is a fun number but you can go higher, say 95%. But since they are on the funny 208v they will never get the power they need to charge the cars to their max potential, so there is no danger in using it the way they are. POWER TOO LOW. It would be nice to see the actual power output from the plug. A quick test with a multi-meter would help clear things up. The 120 outlet should actually read something like 125v~126v and the 208v 212vish. Let's see those numbers!
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets. BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
This is the 5th video from you explaining level 1 from level 2 charging... The explanation is not wrong but it's kinda superficial. No EV will charge at full speed last few percent, so 240/48 you will get 11kW only up to 90% then it slowly tapers off to about 3kW for the last couple of percent. So 72kWh/9kW mathematically is 8 hours but in reality is 10+h...
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets. BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
So funny well few weeks ago we had super hot days in Los Angeles and Gavin grusom was telling us Californians that we are going to have flex days that means cutting electricity and we can cool our houses by turning AC on so when the infrastructure is outdated and if everyone gets a electrical car i think they are overpriced junk how in the hell are they going to charge your overpriced electrical junk car. Chinese ion batteries suck they suck on flash lights so they are junk on cars.
“There’s nowhere to charge at my apartment.” Probably gonna just post this same comment on every EV video I watch until it’s no longer an issue, an issue which btw millions of people are having. Wave of the future or not, I’m not gonna pretend like it’ll make life easier going electric. Im gonna call it how it is.
@@BullittKid08 here we go, one of those “everyone has the exact same opportunities” type people. I guess everyone should just stop living in apartments when electric cars are mandated some day. Everyone will be able to afford a house all of a sudden…
Tommy, Will you ever learn the correct terminology? The level 1 & 2 CHARGERS are in the vehicle. You should be using the term EVSE. Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment. Yes, you finally said EVSE. but you thrown all the wrong information before you said it correctly. If you are trying to "teach" the public DO IT RIGHT PLEASE. it's NOT that hard you you guys at TFL should be pros at EV charging.
@@randocrypto1678 Not OK at all. What's wrong with saying EVSE as the correct term. Plus, your educating the public as ICE terms were done over a hundred years and some still use the wrong terms with ICE.
Tommy is definitely having fun with that trusty calculator, and that amperage x voltage thesis. Add in a Jeep vehicle, and Tommy’s not coming home anytime soon. 😂😎🍷🛻
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I'm surprised that 48A EVSE is set up to run on a 50A circuit. Normally, a circuit should only be operated at 80% of its rated output continuously. That would limit a 50A circuit to 40A continuous power. I would hard-wire a 48A EVSE to a 60A circuit for safety purposes.
I'm not an electrician, but what I have read is that the 80% rule is a hold-over from more traditional devices like air-conditioners, that often have spikes in current when starting up compressors or whatever. EVs draw a stable/constant current, and so can come closer to a circuit's rated limit.
They must have wired it to a 60amp circuit. I wish they would have stated that.
Correct and 48A needs to be hardwired in every jurisdiction I know of. I install 240v circuits for EV charging and I've never had an application above a 40A EVSE with a 14-50 plug. I have a Ford Charge Station Pro and I use it on a 40A circuit (32A output to vehicle) and it is hardwire only due to being capable of 80A charging.
Could be due to the lower than 240v commercial circuit, however, that allows a plug aka the old amps x voltage calculation aka 48A x 208v = 9.9 KW...
@@TheZeusJuice Nope. A 50A circuit is only legally allowed to deliver 40A continuously. Tesla's 48A charger requires it to be hard-wired to a 60A circuit.
@@metal_horses568 No, he plugs it into the same Nema 14-50 outlet.
if y'all wanna study Charging 201 and maybe charging 301, Technology Connections has a far more indepth vid on charging... and why you really don't need as much charging as you think...
You guys need to turn up your volume on your mics. always hve to turn volume way up and still can't noe hear. FYI
I never understood why I had to turn my volume up all the way up. Glad it’s not just me
For some reason when they do these garage videos, they whisper, use poor mics, or the reception is bad. They have so many good locations to use where everything is top notch, it is a shame they still use the garage as a studio. Albeit, this specific video needed to be done there for the charging station. But yes, my volume was all the way up and still was not sufficient.
Your 48amp evsc (charger)wall charger is wired incorrectly. 48amp chargers to be able to charge at 48amps must be hard wired to a 60amp breaker and not be used on a nema 14-50 plug. A nema 14-50 plug for max output must be wired to a 50amp breaker and can only support a max charge rate of 40amps.
Have a look at my insight.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets.
BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
got mine installed for $400, i guess depending how far you are willing to extend your outlet. perfect for everyday driving for work.
Same here, it was about $350 for me because I had them put it right next to the panel.
Level 1 at 8 amp on my Bolt EV 64 kWh battery is surprisingly good in winter. Keeps the battery from freezing and works with an extension cord. 12 hours it will spend 4 hours heating the battery and then add range for 8 hours which is fine for commuting in the city.
As a first time EV owner, this is great information to have. I was always wondering what I needed at home to charge my truck. Plus every single person wants to know how long does it take to charge, 2nd most common question. (1st being how far can I go). It is just not a one number answer.
Very well presented. Explained with clarity and simplicity. Well done!
Guys, that 48 amp EVSE needs to be hardwired. It cannot be safely plugged into that 50 amp NEMA 14-50 outlet because you can only draw 80% of a circuits rated capacity. It’s violating electrical code and risks a fire.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets.
BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
Just a little note, if your electric panel is in your garage the cost to have the outlet installed can be as cheap as around $350. At lest where I live most of the newer townhouses have the electric panels installed in the garage so it's fairly cheap if you want it by the panel. The extra cost comes from when they have to run lines from the basement or if you want it on the other side of the garage.
My Rav4 Prime as allowed me to slowly ease into the world of charging. The base SE model can charge at a max of 3-3.3KW, which gives me about 10-12 miles of range per hour. When considering what kind of Level 2 outlet I wanted installed in the garage, I also gave thought to realistically moving on to a full EV after the Rav4 is gone. I went with a Nema 6-20 (240v, 16amp) outlet. Since my regular daily commute is < 50 miles 90% of the time, and never > 100 miles (those very busy days running errands and shuttling kids around) the Nema should serve me well if I jump to an EV next since the NEMA 6-20 can very easily provide 100+ miles of juice over night. It's great to see charging options, but your average commuter shouldn't need to go to a more powerful/faster system.
Of course, you are assuming the same miles per kilowatt on both your future vehicle and everyone else’s; if the vehicle was just 30% heavier (opting for a bigger battery or larger passenger capacity), you would suddenly only get 6-8 miles per hour of charge, and only 60 miles over night.
The Lectron V-Box unit you are advertising seems not to carry a UL or ETL listing! And it does not even meet US electric code (NEC Article 625) which limits EVSE’s that plug into a receptacle to no be more than 40amps (and on a 50 amp breaker/receptacle). This is a little scary, and I think you should address this in a follow-up video. Also, minor note: “Level 3” does not exist in the SAE J1772-2017 Spec. It’s level 1, level 2, and DC fast charge.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets.
BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
@@Cloud30000 Umm, sure guy. TFL should absolutely be recommending 240v equipment that hasn’t been safety tested at all in the US and continuously pulls 96% of the capacity of a 50 amp circuit in direct violation of the NEC. I’m sure their electrician said it was totally fine and that they should make a video recommending this to others.
@@rav4l2003 Do you understand how UL approval works?
It requires a massive investment, and missing the label does not mean it isn’t tested, especially if it has been approved with other regulation boards like Europe who require the same strict criteria but don’t charge a ridiculous racket fee to use the label.
I talked to two other licensed electricians I work with that have been doing this for 40 years, and they said that it may keep tripping the breaker but it won’t cause the circuit to catch fire and the cries of danger are from forum “experts” who sit at desks all day and get data from other forum “experts” in a self-sustaining cycle of donning-Kruger stupidity.
Enjoy living in fear, and good luck telling everyone that the sky is falling on subjects you don’t understand.
I do think framing the question as "how long does it take to charge 0%-100% is slightly misleading. I think a good question to ask would be how much charge (how many miles) can you recoup in 8-10 hours. That way a person looking into EVs as a daily driver would know how robust their at home charging system would need to be for their usage instead of making it sound like you need the largest charger available.
Since charging is based on current state of charge, I've found it's easier to explain it in Miles per Hour. So, level 1/120v 4mph, Lvl 2/240 @ 16amps = 12mph, 32amps = 28pmh and so on.
That depends on the efficiency of your vehicle too
Very educational Tommy.
Great information. Could you do a video on if it is possible to charge a non-Tesla vehicle at a Telsa charging station. And how much it would cost.
A lot of people discount level 1 charging
If you do under 30-40 miles a day it’s pretty viable
only recently got 14-50. lived 2 yrs on 120v only. its fine.
@@Billy.80 you haven't learned about gas engine efficiency yet have you? You also sound like someone who goes around saying "but what about her emails"
110v is ok until you actually drive somewhere other than your daily commute. Then you’ll find 110v takes well over a day to recharge.
@@aussie2uGA Not really since you would still only drive 30-40 miles the next day. No reason to charge to 100%. It's only if you need to drive long distances two days in a row that you need to find a fast DC charger.
@@Billy.80 Given you only need to charge 10-20kwh each day (i.e. $1-2), 10-15% of that would only add marginally to your monthly bill.
Does the 48 Amp charger mounted on the wall have the ability to delay charging for certain times of day and night? And is that an important feature to have? I do realize some cars do it within their menu, but if I’m going to spend $500-$700, shouldn’t it have that feature built in to the wall mounted unit?
Not only is it super slow but level 1 will actually cost you more to charge with all the loss, like you mentioned all the electricity doesn’t make it to the car.
How do you figure? His level 1 was delivering 1.3kW, meaning ~11A, his other examples were a 32A and 48A charger. I2R losses would be much greater for the level 2 chargers.
@@azinor4767 don’t forget its less efficient to convert 110v Ac to 800 DC. (Ioniq 5 is 800v architecture).
The cars display only shows what is being received and not what is actually going to the battery. Cars with thermal management also require the battery to be warmed to the right temperature.
The longer it takes more energy is wasted to heating/cooling the battery. You forgot to calculate time.
“The Ioniq guy” has a good video explaining the difference of cost.
Cars with a 400v architecture and no thermal management wouldn’t see and much difference but time is still a factor. As heat and cold still play a role.
GM Chevy Cadillac Hummer Ultium batteries. Offer optional or standard on higher range vehicles 80 amp on a 100 amp circuit. 19.2 kW Level 2 at home or public. Older Model S Tesla's also can charge at 19.2 kW.
as others have said.... THIS VIDEO IS WRONG - It is not code, nor safe, to plug a 48amp draw into a NEMA 14-50 outlet. ... TAKE DOWN THIS VIDEO!
yes, THIS!!
Take this video down, it could potentially make the difference between life and death for somebody.
Have a look at my insight.
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets.
BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
@@Cloud30000 the point is not what TFL has in their studio, reviewed by a licenced electrtion or not, it's what their viewers will do with this information. But no worries, your comment clears everything up and now we all know NEC is just a suggestion and should be ignored.
@@phtofl I wish you the best of luck in explaining to homeowners what they are allowed to plug in to their homes, while claiming the NEC will burn down their house if they are defied.
The only risk of damage is from a defective breaker, but even a 40 amp load can cause damage if the breaker is defective.
The reason for the NEC code, again, is not due to danger; it is due to the breaker tripping at 100% load, causing no risk at all but constantly opening the circuit and cutting off power to the device connected to it.
If their was really a danger posed by a 40amp load on a 50amp circuit, they would mandate breakers that tripped at 40 amps under the tested temperatures instead of 50 amps.
Great video mate
A couple things to note.
Chargers aren't rated for their amperage output, they're rated at their kW output.
The reasoning is that different sites will have different voltages - so in order to have a stable charge rate, you need to have variability in amperage. So in this case, the charger can output as much as 48A but it will only output as many amps as needed to reach the the rated charge rate. If the voltage is high the amperage will reduce to maintain the rated kW rating.
The other is that in order to get a better estimate, you'll want to multiply the reported charge rate times 0.9 as there are efficiency losses.
Ty great explanation
5:40 Does that mean there will be a sustained 32 amp load on the building?
That’s really helpful as I look at electric cars and my commute. I only have about 8 hours at home between shifts and I would need a full battery each morning.
Be wary if you're looking for EVs and are really time constrained for your charging interval vs distance, some of the math in this video can be a little hand-wavy depending on the vehicle (and he actually mentions overall charging restrictions when he brings up the Leaf). Every EV also has a charging curve, where they accept less power as they increase their state of charge, so it can be a bit misleading giving definitive charge time for a 0-100% scenario.
@@azinor4767 Charge curves only come into play with DC fast charging. With L2 charging, even at 11kw, the battery is going to fill at a constant rate the entire time.
Keep in mind that you will only need to replenish what you use. Unless you have a 300 mile round trip commute, you do not need to fully charge the battery every night. If you only use 50% of the battery for example, then you only need 4 hours to charge it.
@@lawrencemaroun3310 fair enough, I know my car tapers significantly above 90% for DCFC (less than 5kW for the last 5%), I assumed a similar taper for AC.
great video. thanks for sharing!!!
I don't think that Lectron uses the full 48A when plugged in via a NEMA connector. I think 48A is only available when hardwired. With the NEMA plug I think you're limited to 40A. Also be careful when removing your charging connectors. Don't wiggle them like that. Wiggling the connectors might over time cause the female connectors to loosen up, which causes resistance, which causes heat, which causes fires. Uh, no metaphor intended there.
Great video, but the volume was too low
where are you getting 50 amps. the 48 evse is on a 60 amp breaker. the 32 amp evse works on the same 60 amp breaker because the circuit supplies more than the evse can draw.
I would love to see some coverage of outdoor EVSEs. I have a driveway but no garage. What EVSE makes sense for that?
Look up the Grizzl-e EVSE. Rugged and outdoor rated. Also relatively inexpensive. Made in Canada. I have one of their "dumb" EVSE's in my driveway outside. No issues thus far.
The US Ioniq 5 actually has a 77.4 kwh battery not 72.
This video is for North America, elsewhere will be different.
excellent job as always. so thorough and easy to understand. my go to for info!
Just have your electrician install an off-the-shelf Nema 14-50. Cheap and effective.
lets hear it for 480 VOLTS!
Wow, yea sounds like they have, 3 phase wye service in a commercial building. That can be a common thing. Especially when large (higher voltage) electric motors are used. They aren't running any of those it looks like. The breaker should always be more, 80%? That is a fun number but you can go higher, say 95%. But since they are on the funny 208v they will never get the power they need to charge the cars to their max potential, so there is no danger in using it the way they are. POWER TOO LOW. It would be nice to see the actual power output from the plug. A quick test with a multi-meter would help clear things up. The 120 outlet should actually read something like 125v~126v and the 208v 212vish. Let's see those numbers!
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets.
BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
can barely hear the audio. remember to normalize!
Glossing over the incorrect amp rating, how do you guys not know there is no level 3 charging. It's DCFC....
This is the 5th video from you explaining level 1 from level 2 charging...
The explanation is not wrong but it's kinda superficial. No EV will charge at full speed last few percent, so 240/48 you will get 11kW only up to 90% then it slowly tapers off to about 3kW for the last couple of percent. So 72kWh/9kW mathematically is 8 hours but in reality is 10+h...
Tommy is are ev guru! He knows his numbers and he can use a calculator very well.
Professor Tommy. Thanks
This was great, thank you!
Great video Tommy! Thanks for making it. Could you go over how numbers work again? You're saying that 2 is BETWEEN 1 and 3? 🤣😂
WHERE IS TOMMY'S MIC!?
Due to unsafe electrical wiring this video should be removed and replaced. TFL sometimes hits and sometimes they...
While I’m sure TFL “appreciates” the expertise provided by all these TH-cam professional commenters, I am going to go out on a limb and say they are consulting a local licensed electrician to determine how to properly operate their electrical outlets.
BTW, the NEC code is intended for the electrician sizing the proper rating for the intended load during installation of the circuit; their isn’t a law forbidding home owners from plugging in a 13 amp device in a 15 amp socket. The reason for the 80% rule is because the heat will keep tripping the breaker at 100% load, not because the power demon will enter your panel and chew on your wires. In fact, wires rated to handle 50 amps at the maximum intended length will happily do so all day long if not subjected to excessive heat; it is the nature of the circuit breaker to generate heat, which accumulates with the heat from all the other nearby circuit breakers, that necessitates the 80% rating (which is really just representative of the 100% rating at the elevated temperatures they are expected to experience).
I learned something watching this, ty
You learned 2 wrong things then.
go rams
Very informative, great content Tommy!
So funny well few weeks ago we had super hot days in Los Angeles and Gavin grusom was telling us Californians that we are going to have flex days that means cutting electricity and we can cool our houses by turning AC on so when the infrastructure is outdated and if everyone gets a electrical car i think they are overpriced junk how in the hell are they going to charge your overpriced electrical junk car. Chinese ion batteries suck they suck on flash lights so they are junk on cars.
nice job on the single take.
charging for DUMMIES
If there Electrician changing up $1000 to put in 30 amp
“There’s nowhere to charge at my apartment.” Probably gonna just post this same comment on every EV video I watch until it’s no longer an issue, an issue which btw millions of people are having. Wave of the future or not, I’m not gonna pretend like it’ll make life easier going electric. Im gonna call it how it is.
Crazy idea, maybe eventually move out of the apartment.
@@BullittKid08 here we go, one of those “everyone has the exact same opportunities” type people. I guess everyone should just stop living in apartments when electric cars are mandated some day. Everyone will be able to afford a house all of a sudden…
@@foellerd Or you can just stop driving and take public transit. :D
Tommy, Will you ever learn the correct terminology?
The level 1 & 2 CHARGERS are in the vehicle. You should be using the term EVSE. Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment.
Yes, you finally said EVSE. but you thrown all the wrong information before you said it correctly.
If you are trying to "teach" the public DO IT RIGHT PLEASE.
it's NOT that hard you you guys at TFL should be pros at EV charging.
Honestly I’m okay with saying “charges” for level 1 and 2. Gets the point across and there’s no reason to overcomplicate things unnecessarily.
Sounds like an unimportant technicality for this level of information
@@WhoIsThisGodPersonAnyway I guess you l like using wrong terms and technology and don't mind looking dumb!
@@randocrypto1678 Not OK at all. What's wrong with saying EVSE as the correct term.
Plus, your educating the public as ICE terms were done over a hundred years and some still use the wrong terms with ICE.
Garbage of a car though, should d be taken to an E-waste center
just a voice crying in the wilderness ... WE DON'T HAVE THE GRIDS ... hydrogen is the answer
Lmao
@@larrysmith6797 Then get off the grid with solar.
Tommy is definitely having fun with that trusty calculator, and that amperage x voltage thesis. Add in a Jeep vehicle, and Tommy’s not coming home anytime soon. 😂😎🍷🛻