Allow me to relay here again that these of course are my opinions. If you dont like him, thats fine, but try and give him a chance! The purpose of this video is to help some people see Super Goku from a new perspective and is not meant to single out anyone
THIS, nobody mentions this! Nobody also wants to mention most of his dumb scenes come from anime only which toei loves to add in for goku all the way from Z. Z has so many anime only moments that make goku look so goofy
I actually liked the slice of life in Super outside of the Copy Vegeta stuff. Seeing characters that felt so raw and serious in Z or for me Kai act a bit more goofy was really fun and hilarious.
I feel bad for Z Goku, honestly He was always the laidback child like you said in the video In Z, he was under constant stress that earth is under threat and that his whole family is going to die, Him finding out that he is an alien, his brother is evil, there are other people like him that want to destroy earth, his best friend dying, and more In Super he finally got some ''peaceful'' arcs for once (Beerus seeming like not a bad guy, and even then we saw Goku RAGED ''I will not let you destroy my WORLD'' because of the threat) Let my guy chill for once
Honestly on the topic of Gokus IQ, he's obviously never been a Bulma in that regard, but still, Goku in Super just FEELS Like He's Acting Like almost a Novice a fair bit of the time
@@Spidey-ff8dc Ever-still, I’m still not a fan of Goku’s nature in Super, to be honest. This video explains why he behaves like this, and that he is fundamentally the same, but as a consumer, I’m still entitled to be disappointed if I feel like Goku feels a step behind how he was before.
8:02 to be fair on that bit, trunks did tell goku to only take the heart medicine once the symptoms appeared, not before they did. Now why he didn’t keep the medicine with him at all times is a far stupider thing on goku’s end
I'd say there was the risk of the vial getting damaged during training/combat with the Androids. All Gero would have to do is zap the vial with his eyes and there goes the Heart Virus cure.
@@SirCap worst case scenario they use the dragon balls to teleport to namek, the real stupid move was having piccolo participate in a fight. Actually, its hard to think of a cenario, besides raditz i guess, where bringing piccolo to a fight wasnt actively trolling.
@Phospholazuli It's wild how Piccolo goes from Earth's second strongest warrior while his life is tied to the dragon balls to Krillin's level of trying to maintain relevance by the end of Z.
These character analysis tickle my autism on an unparalleled level. Thank you for the effort you put into these. Heres to hoping this channel grows to the heights you want.
After rewatching Dragon Ball, I have to agree. This is who Goku has always been. Not a righteous hearted hero who fights to save people. But a kind and honest martial artist who fights in order to push himself and others to always improve. Which is why I'll always admire him for being a different kind of "hero" (in the west, at least).
Goku is a Hero in the literary sense. He is a main character who’s actions drive the narrative of the world around him. If you remove Goku the story falls apart. On the flip side Frieza is a Villain in the literary sense. A main character who’s actions drive the narrative. What separates Heroes and Villains in literature usually isn’t anything like morality. But the positions are determined by who’s the Protagonist of the story. If Frieza was the protagonist of Dragon Ball then Goku would be the villain of the story simply because his actions stand in direct opposition to Frieza
You are starting to become my favorite Dragon Ball TH-camr for real. These character analysis videos on the Difference between Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Kai for me, and Dragon Ball Super are a breath of fresh air. I've always known that Goku fundamentally has always been the same character. Getting started with Kai and not Z helped me to see the real Goku, because in Kai Goku's pretty much the same as in Super. Most people who think Goku's a ruined character have only watched the Funimation english dub of DBZ. To truly understand Goku, watch him from the beginning of the series non dubbed and then watch Z subbed or Kai's english dub. Then when you get to Super, you'll see how Goku's fundamentally the same. I've definitely noticed that he's more goofy in Super, but everyone has been more goofy. We all saw Vegeta couldn't crack an egg in those filler episodes between B.o.G retelling and the R.o.F retelling 🤣🤣 oh funny stuff. Point of my comment is Dragon Ball Super did not ruin Goku, most of the fandom has a distorted image of Goku through the Funimation english dub of Z.
I agree the Funimation dub definitely had a fault to play with misinterpreting Goku's character. They wanted to make him a "superhero" so bad that damn near every interaction with his villians felt like some corny Superman dialouge(this was especially at its worst in GT). Idk why people want Goku to be a Superman clone when they are two completely diffetent characters
@@darke216 Right on brother. That's why I appreciate DBZ Kai so much, it aloud me to see the real Goku in a dub. I like subs too, but you can't go wrong with a solid dub like Kai and Super have.
Im not going to lie, i was always a detractor when it came to how goku was characterised in super. It was always my biggest problem with the show, not the ludicrous power scaling at times, not the questionable writing at some times, not even the terrible production it had early on resulting in terrible animation (even if those issues still bugged me), it was always the way goku acted. That being said, this video actually made me reconsider a bit and appreciate gokus character in super and his progression a lot more than i used to. Even if i still don't particularly like how goku acts at times, (like him not knowing what medication is in super hero)i think that may just be my own personal preferences and biases at that point. Thank you for making this video, it genuinely saved super a little bit for me
Great video. I was a bit of a Super hater for the last couple years. But I just reread and I gotta say that my opinions were warped by the monthly waits. Goku feels like Goku in Super. I think it’s just easy for social media to form negative opinions that are not really present in the source material.
I have to say, I went into this video very skeptical, but I sat through the entirety because I wanted to hear a different opinion…and boy am I glad I did. Your arguments made a lot of sense and resonated in a way many other arguments haven’t been able to. I can only hope more people are open enough to try to understand a different side of the argument and watch your video through the entirety like I did. In short, thank you for helping me see our favorite Hero in a different light!
19:07 another thing id like to add which is something I never see anyone talk about, Freiza from the beginning never trusted the saiyans because of the super saiyan legend, so he destroyed their planet to attempt to wipe out their race. In the tournament of power, him working with goku and the other people in the universe who he would kill any other day of the week taught him (as well as jiren) the value of trust. IN THE VERY NEXT ARC, he puts his nearly FULL trust in Broly to do his dirty work, a SAIYAN. not only that, but he was actually disappointed that Broly WASNT able to turn into a super saiyan, a complete 180 from his attitude in Z. That’s honestly one of my favorite arcs of db and no one seems to notice 😢
That’s why I put Frieza in my top 3 most well-written characters of the franchise. The guy got some serious character development that people rarely mention just because he didn’t get redeemed.
Its important to note that how you watch the series is going to affect your perspective on the characters. In the english OG Funimation dub for example goku is characterized more as a superhero in his dialouge which skews his actual character portrayal from the japanese sub.
Should mention the "Not knowing what a kiss is" scene was a misunderstood joke. As the joke is that Trunks was giving a kiss but mouth to mouth to feed a senzu bean to Mai. Which isn't exactly a kiss. The joke is that its a misunderstanding.
Yeah the various translations didn't make a good job, the Joke (like you said) Is Goku not understand the mouth feeding thing and vegeta being exposed about being romantical with Bulma xd
Also, kissing is a western concept that wasn't introduced to Japan and East Asian culture until the 19th century. As a pure martial artist, this fact could've been homage to the ancient warriors which Goku's mentality is partly modeled after.
@@PhilosopherRyan yeah, plus from what i remember toriyama said that he doesn't really like that kind of things because he wasn't good at writing romantic scenes and he was embarrassed to do it (at least this Is what i remember, there could be more that i forgot )
Great video. I appreciate how often you work to challenge popular narratives amongst the fandom. I do think that Toriyama isn't the greatest at executing a momentary regression for meaningful progression. I do believe more solid writing would make this process much more seamless and less jarring.
DB fans using a joke moment where Goku didn’t know what kissing was while Vegeta also stating how ridiculous it is to prove he’s a canonical dumbass in ONLY super will always be hilarious to me
@whoa_NellyIf you’re talking about Superhero, I think that part where Goku was questioning Vegeta on meditation wasn’t about Goku not knowing what it was but rather Goku not knowing Vegeta to be the type of guy to meditate when it comes to training.
@whoa_NellyThis problem was literally explained better in the manga... ya'll shitheads really try to find every damn excuse to shit on Super... Yes it's flawed but crap give it a break my dude, go watch old DBZ if you hate super. I've watched all of the series and tried to enjoy all of them, I don't start bitching whenever I see or read a damn plothole, yes can be quite annoying but i learn to ignore it. Some of ya'll make these plotholes live in your head rent free...
@@TheCasual101Nah, gtfo. Not only manga came out later (Meaning that explanation was to cover their asses) but Goku literally forgets lessons he learned through DBZ during super. Never treat opponent like a joke? - That MF forgets the first lesson he learned as a martial artist and not only he thinks Berus won't manage to harm him, he acts straight up arrogant. And that's literally begging of the F. show!
Amazing video. Definitely the best video I've seen explaining Goku's character, you truly understand his character more than 80% of "fans" out there. You sir have earned a well deserved like and a subscription.
I absolutely love these character analysis videos. It really takes my understanding of them to another level, making me empathize more and even makes me emotional some times. Keep up the awesome work, and much success to you my friend!
Damn, AWESOME analysis of Goku! It teaches a lot and kinda feels like you understand the character better than 90% of the "Dragon Ball Z Fans" on the internet XD
Honestly Goku isn’t as dumb as people think. Don’t get me wrong, he’s pretty dumb on most things. But he is an absolute genius when it comes to martial arts. It’s on full display in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc where he is constantly outsmarting Piccolo. There’s more than one kind of intelligence, after all
Shows up a lot too in the Tournament of Power when he uses some crazy creative moves to keep up with Jiran when he doesn't have ultra instinct yet. That destructo disk trick was awesome, and something a fighter like Vegeta would never think of
And not just the fight per se. He is a incredibly smart at strategy and planning as well. Just look at how he approached his training going to Namek, or the training in the room of spirit and time before Cell (and compare with how Vegeta and everyone else fared with the same training). I would go as far as to say that Goku is a genius, and sometimes geniuses have blind spots in everyday life because they are so absorbed in their interests. :)
This is a WONDERFUL video. It really reminded me about Goku and at the same time verify what I already knew about him. If you wanted to you could've also brought up GT Goku. Guys, I think we need to send this to non-Dragon Ball fans who only thinks this show is ONLY about hair colour changes.
Strangely, GT goku is based off the original funi dub Goku, since Kai was made during the 20th anniversary of DB after GT aired on the 90s and ended. He is still quite the same fundamentally.
Goku is a universal character development catalyst. It's in his nature to not only strive to be better than he was yesterday but inspire others to get stronger as well even if a bit of that is because he just likes to fight but he is a Saiyan sooooo😁😁😁
I am so glad this video exists. It really helps explain who goku really is. He’s not Superman, he’s his own person and really at his core wants to push his limits. However, it’s in conjunction with his kind heart that he often found himself on the good side of battles. But he is still a Saiyan no matter what. There are some things that’ll never change about him
A lot of people forget that just because someone learned something once or overcame a flaw once doesnt mean they wont have to win against it again. Flaws dont just disappear.
Can we at least agree Goku thinking meditation being dumb was just a blantent disregard for his character? He was doing meditation during the Buu Saga. He knows the importance of meditation
Let's be honest. The real reason is that so many different people have written Goku that there's not a lot of consistency in certain areas. Also, Toriyama himself is notoriously forgetful and probably just forgot how much Goku had evolved in DBZ when he started writing Super.
You don't mention this, but Goku sparing Moro wasn't a stupid choice either. He knew that his current power far surpassed Moro at full strength, so he was giving the villain the choice of either going back to prision or dying.
Ok but Moro is still fully capable of throwing a wah wah baby fit and blowing up the planet (which he almost does), it just goes against how Goku was in the Cell saga where he’s begging Gohan to finish Cell off (despite Gohan being far stronger than Cell at that point)
@@soggybozo1515There is still a difference that was outlined in the video, and that is that goku was giving moro one last chance at mercy, whereas gohan was only doing it to torture cell. Gohan was always planning on killing cell, but decided to torture and deconstruct him. Goku is still not fully committed to killing moro until he refuses his act of mercy.
6:34 There is a lot to this part that is blatantly wrong. Goku has always been naive and carefree, but Super made him stupid and reckless. He has a basic education because of Grampa Gohan and Roshi. But there are still things he doesn't know, because he was a kid. You show that Goku now understood what Chichi meant by marriage when he got older. Goku is forgetful in Super. Forgetting to bring sensu beans in the Goku Black arc and the Broly movie. At End of Z, he doesn't forget that he has instant transmission. He has always been hyper focused on training. Goku took the heart medicine as intended. He was told to take it as soon as symptoms arise. It just happened to be when he was fighting A19. Goku's reason to not be revived was correct, it's literally the story of Z (excluding the Buu arc). These galactic treats only came to Earth because Goku was there. With the heart virus, it made Goku realize that he won't always be around. So he had to step aside so Gohan could be the protector of Earth. The dumbest Goku has been was when he was a kid (shocker I know). The only time he was that dumb is in Super. Goku in the future timeline defeated Freeza and King Cold. Because Trunks interfered with the present tl, Goku knew he didn't have to take action. Trunks even remarks how he made an unnecessary change in the timeline. Goku would have handled it if Trunks stayed back and watched from afar. 9:25 I only got up to this point in the vid and this comment is getting to long. There was a lot of misinfo and just useless padding that really annoyed me.
Yeah, he brings so much disingenous arguments. People don't dislike Super's goku because he is more "chill" or not serious enough, people dislike him because he is dumb. At instances, even dumber and more innocent than kid Goku. That meditation line goes against everything Goku is lmao. Goku was meditating for training when he was 13, he continued to use this method of traning for 30 years, just to be turned in a complet idiot that didn't know "meditation could be used to train 🤪🤪"
Not a single person understands Goku on a personal level because not a single human being alive can relate to him. Vegeta, on the other hand. We can ALL relate to. He's as real as real gets.
Yamaha has one of the saddest lives ever bruh you apparently have to become a desert bandit, struggle in a fight with what should be just a kid in your eyes, get saved by that same kid, get beaten in a tournament by a old man, get beat in another tournament by a bald Triclops who breaks your arm, be forced to train with that same guy to catch up to that same kid, have the guy who bested you that you finally caught up with get wrecked by that same kid cheat on the richest, woman in the world (which has to be character assassination cause WHY would you do that!?), get unlucky at dropping your guard when you know that your opponent should not be able to fight you after what you have done to them, die, come back just to train for 3 years and nearly die again, realize that your power is irrelevant and you can’t do anything about these threats so why should you try when everyone else is stronger, than you, has stronger techniques than you, better at both or better in every way when it comes to fighting?, start a base ball career finally be successful in your life long-term just to have that same career get you into a death match with Super Saiyan Gods, G.O.Ds, and aliens. And any time you return to the battle field you can’t beat basic fodder. Despite the fact that you and your friends should be way ahead of them because not everyone can be this strong right?
Yeah, as real as it gets. Just like when he almost killed Bulma and his own baby son on Android saga lmao. Or when he assassinated hundreds of people because he wanted to fight against Goku
At the end of the Dragonball Z manga, Goku was no longer wearing the turtle hermit gi. That visual alone gave Goku the look of a man who had mastered martial arts, he was no longer a student. He became Uub's master, turning the universe's most feared creature into a humble pupil and imparting his knowledge, his way of life. Then Battle of Gods and Resurrection F came along and tossed a wrench into everything, demoting Goku to a student. Super doesn't belong in the timeline, considering that in the manga, 10 years passed without the mention of any key event taking place. Trying to fit Super in with Z is like trying to fit a circular peg in a triangular hole.
I both agree and disagree with you. I think most of the problems with characterization in my opinion from the Super era (minus Battle of Gods to be honest) come from the anime and forced comedy. I'm glad the manga has been able to really shine recently and I greatly thank it.
I think I agree on nearly every point, but my brain cannot rationalize how he can conceive two children and go to at least one wedding besides his own and not know about kissing. Chi-Chi got him to get a job; she didn't get at least one kiss for the ENTIRE marriage? Really? It can't be. It just can't.
Thank you for using clips from Dragon ball Kai there i know it's kinda more canon to the manga adding to the fact here that I don't mind hearing Colleen Clinkenbeard voicing Gohan. I actually prefer her over Stephanie Nadolny when it comes to voicing Pre-Teen Gohan's character for me in my opinions
I'm actually kinda growing off Super anime because I thought of it sort of ruined Goku's character, though it's not the only reason, The 2 Zamasus ruined Future Trunk's character for me so much so that they made start thinking that Future Trunks' story should of ended after he killed Future cyborg 17, 18 and Imperfect cell so then afterwards I thought he didn't need a 2nd saga added to his life if Future trunks needs a 2nd saga I would of preferred one where his future was peaceful plus I also ended up despising the Golden Frieza Saga, Frieza should of stayed dead in hell in my opinions so thanks for clearing up and changing my thoughts and opinions of Kakarot/Goku's character here. Though the dbs Moro, Cereal and Superhero manga is a different story that has peaked my intrigues.
8:11 This is probably the only point I disagree with. Considering the vast majority of antagonists in Z almost all had something to do with either Goku's actions or just him living there. Piccolo Jr. wanted revenge. Raditz shows up cause of Goku being on earth which led to Vegeta and Nappa. The whole andriod saga was caused by kid Goku's actions.
I think this kinda connotes how Goku influences people in either a negative or positive aspect. I think people believe Goku regressed because Z went over the negative aspects of Goku's influence on people and his existence (Piccolo saga saiyan saga cell saga. Most positive aspects come from Z too but I think the main antagonist are more significant than Side characters like cell or vegeta and piccolo, possibly Fat buu but mostly mr. Satan?) Whilst Super decides to go on the positive aspect of Goku's influence on people and his existence (Jiren, Hit, Beerus, Broly frieza and Fat Buu.)
@DevilMarioProductions Well first point, the only antagonists relevent were before Cell, since thats when Goku decided to stay dead. Secondly, the majority of the antagonists were either a side effect of Goku's existence(Raditz and the other Saiyans) or cause of his actions (Androids, Cell, Gero. This is also related to Bulma telling goku that danger surrounds him in Og dragonball) The point is up to Cell, most antangonists had a relation to Goku.
Raditz and Dr. Gero were the only ones who had direct reasons why they would want to go after him. Raditz wanted to recruit Goku for their planetary conquest but Goku refused. Dr. Gero wanted revenge on Goku for destroying the RR Army. All the others had nothing to do with him. Vegeta and Nappa wanted the earth dragonballs. Frieza wanted the Namekian dragonballs. The androids just did their own thing while using Dr. Gero's command to kill Goku as an excuse. Cell just wants to be perfect but used Goku as his benchmark because again, Dr. Gero. The Buus are just menaces. Goku was just in the way of most of the villains
@@Saber_Nico Yes, Raditz and Gero did have direct reasons. Vegeta and Nappa were a domino effect of Raditz. The andriods were only created because of Gero hating Goku, and the buu's don't matter since thats after goku wanted to stay dead not before.
GREAT vid and it unintentionally points out a major issue in online-Dragon Ball discourse... People leave to watch the flavor-of-the-month-animes and come back to Dragon Ball with flavor-of-the-month-expectaions. But Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. Stop expecting Goku to be the modern-Shonen Protagonist. He's always been Son Wukong, and most people enjoy that.
0:26 That is so untrue. People just cant stand that Goku is a bit of a doodoo besides batteling. Fact is he always has been and he always will be and thats why i love the character.
Oh man I loved this. I’ve always seen Goku as a giant kid, hyper focused on his favorite things. He’s always been a simple joyful person. He’s a little dense sure but he’s a good hearted combat genius.
Great video, thanks for talking about this topic alot of critics do not understand goku especially super Goku especially Saiyan scholar and others no offence to him .congratulations 🎉you have gotten a new subscriber
My issue is when he forgets things that his character would NEVER forget like in the dbs manga when he acts like he didnt know what meditation is That being said i love the breakdown and i love how much he influenced frieza. Frieza didnt kill the saiyans, simply one shotted them and let them train to try to beat him. Thats goes back to RoF when goku told him hed be such a great rival if he only trained instead of focusing on killing/revenge
most people who think hes changed, haven't seen the real goku, or haven't watched the original dragon ball imo. He was always this way, he's always been a lovable dimwitted goof who just loves a good brawl. DBZ forced him to be more serious than before, and made him think about the future with opponents coming onto their doorsteps one by one. he still never dropped that innocence though, sparing everyone he possibly could until the very end with Uub.
It's particularly clear if you listen to his original voice, where he literally sounds the same as he did as a child in Dragon Ball. He is basically a child-man. The dub giving him an actual adult man's voice really changes peoples' perception of him.
When you study psychology, you will eventually know about Jungian Archetypes. And Goku is the perfect example of The Fool archetype. He became a Hero not by choice but by circumstances (one of the Archetype's tropes), he tent to be funny and light hearted because the guy just wants to have some fun. He plays dumb most of the time just to avoid expectations because he wants to things go on his way. Goku is the quintessential Fool.
I feel like there's a lot of dialogue in Super that really makes him seem dumber than he ever was in Z. Like it would make sense for kid Goku at the beginning of the series to not know what a kiss is, but after being married for years? Or him not knowing what image training is in Super Hero
Goku is based. U aware pimps exist now tell me have u seen a pimp kiss a female. Vegeta is more into human customs . Thinking of names for his new child, showers with his wife, tea time dances for a God to appease him and so on
The main problem is People are overly critical. They take very minor things set out as jokes and use it as a negative plot point or "regression" when in reality it's for comedic purposes. We use Kid Goku because in those scenes it's for comedic reasons and not to be taken literally. It's funny how they criticise a kiss joke when In Z Goku is scared of needles even though he has endured and encountered way More lethal and intimidating things, simply put it's for humorous scenes. The image training is something Goku constantly does in the Super Anime and manga (which fixed the dialogue) so I think it's a minor mistake by the crew who did the dialogue of Super Hero. Let's not be pessimistic 😅😂
In the Sub they never use Kiss Vegeta just asked him if he has ever done that before and the original scene was supposed to be that Goku never fed someone a sensu bean like that because Trunks mama bird fed Mai and Goku never did that.
@@joelgaynor I find it pretty funny that the kissing scene is something may take as some sort of plot point when the anime has constantly proving over and over again that it's written as a joke
I definitely think that the hate DBS receives from a fraction (note: it is only a fraction and not the majority) of the DB fandom stems from the fact that DBS Goku isn't the 'serious, icy, dominating, warrior of justice' that they want him to be. I think some people want a hero who will play out a power fantasy. They want the same from Gohan, and are therefore annoyed when Gohan rightly chooses a family life over the life of a warrior. Gohan has always been a gentle, nurturing soul. But some fans want Gohan stuck in the "Snapped, vengeance against Cell" mode, because it better fits into their desire for a character that icily overwhelms every opponent. Goku is goofy and playful. He isn't a warrior of justice, though he has fought for vengeance on behalf of his friends. Goku likes fighting, not dominating opponents. And Goku is really only serious when he perceives his friends are in danger or when he's against a superior opponent. But he is also selfish. He will shelf his responsibilities if it means having a good fight or getting stronger. He has always been this way.
On the note of Goku staying dead after the Cell saga because he felt the Earth would be safe, at that point in time, he had the right idea. Piccolo Junior was birthed because of him, the Saiyans and Frieza came to Earth because of him, AND the Androids were made to KILL him. And in Future Trunks' Timeline? The Androids nearly destroy the world. He felt like he was just one big magnet for disaster, and lo and behold, the second he comes back to Earth for a day, Vegeta ends up going Majin and his fight with Veggie releases Majin Buu. While you can argue that the plan to revive Buu were being set in motion *before* Goku came to Earth, it doesn't excuse the other examples.
Super goku is the goku he needs to be. But if you want to do this right realize that if you follow the character arch and watch from ages. 1-14 (age) Goku is carefree and only becomes tough when needed 15-20s Goku is going threw it, a new dad and coming to the age where learning is hard, mistakes are made and things are learned again, the hard way 30s+ Learning how to merge your inner child and being the idol your kids need you to be People don’t want to see this because life is hard and realizing that growing old can mean being a child again is hard for people to grasp.
I think that Goku has actually gotten dumber in Super. He wasn't as over the top in Z. Ultimately, his stupidity and naivety are over the top for marketing reasons. Kids like silly characters and children's cartoons get softer and sillier with time, both in the East and West. I also don't like Goku having to relearn old lessons, but I understand it's for the target audience and I can see why you like it.
i think goku wanting to stay in the after life made sense actually, the entire saiyan thing happened because raditz wanted goku, the frieza thing happened because of the saiyans, the entire android and cell thing happened because they wanted goku, then the buu thing happened because they wanted the energy of the fighters, which him being dead wuldnt have prevented, but at that point he just wanted to be safe since most other things were caused because of people wanting him dead
Bro to clarify Goku has always had this personality that is supposedly new in Super. Does anyone remember the Cell Senzu Bean bs? And what about his moments away from the battle? He has always been kind of an idiot but in a funny way. Fight me.
No need. The Z elitist have been coping so hard to the point they generally believe Goku off the battlefield or on it was this serious always 100% in the moment stoic warrior.
Goku is a big part of the reason why I am who I am. Ever since I was a kid, the morals he taught helped shape me. He’s also part of the reason why I became a professional strongman. Thank you so much Akira
8:03 Raditz came to earth for him, and then vegeta and nappa came to earth for the dragon balls, which they learned about through Raditz. i guess you can say freeza wasn't anything to do with him, but he's still the reason mecha freeza came to earth, threatening his friends again. and the androids were made by gero in order to kill goku. any time a threat came to, or appeared on earth was becauise of him in z, until Buu.
Even then, Buu is a threat because of Gohan’s awakening, which Goku indirectly caused. It was fair for him to assume he’d be an attraction to bigger and larger threats than Earth could handle.
He didn't forget to take his heart medicine he was told to start taking it once symptoms started showing, but he got caught up and hunting down the androids when the symptoms started to show up. It sorted of complicated things.
The issue I take with DBS Goku is mostly if not entirely anime exclusive. It's not that he's stupid or selfish or most of the other things people usually complain about. It's his maturity. Goku's progression from the original series to Z is Goku growing from a child to an adult. He retains many of his core personality traits but tempers them somewhat with the maturity that comes with growing older and taking on more responsibilities. We see Goku go from being a naïve child in the original series to doing his best to be a father and planning out his own retirement for the next generation to take over in Z. It's the story of a boy becoming a man and accepting that his time in the spotlight has come and gone and that it's becoming time for new stories to be told. In the DBS anime, it feels like most of this adulthood has been stripped from his personality and he's regressed to being more or less how he was at the end of the original series, and occasionally even earlier than that. He comes off as a child in an adults body, not yet ready for responsibilities and all too eager to hog the spotlight despite him planning out his retirement for half of Z. In the Manga this is generally less of an issue. He doesn't act like a child anywhere near as often and generally tends to have behavior more in line with how he was throughout Z. In the manga, it also comes off less as Goku hogging the spotlight and more like he's undergoing a new journey of self discovery. The realization that he was actually a Saiyan was worldview changing for him back in early Z, and Vegeta's plea on Namek was the push he needed to embrace that heritage of his even if only just a little bit. He never took pride in being a Saiyan, but he embraced that he was one nonetheless and leaned into using that knowledge to develop himself and his fighting style. Then he discovers another path in Super and starts embracing it instead, only to suddenly remember his parents when he hears his father's voice in an old Scouter recording, and what his father has to say awakens his Saiyan pride when nothing before ever could. Goku still plans on making way for the next generation, that much hasn't changed, but now he has this balled up tension of inner conflict regarding who he is and what kind of fighter he wants to be. He was raised on Earth and taught an entire method and mindset about fighting that he was later able to continue when training with the gods themselves, but he's also become acquainted with a contrary method and mindset passed on to him by his brother, his father, and even Vegeta. Both of these are strongly engrained into who he is as a person deep inside, and only by learning how to make these two opposite extremes come together in harmony can he truly become both Son Goku and Kakarot; The Saiyan who was raised on Earth and mastered both the calm of the stone and the raging waves. It's no coincidence I think that in the Manga Goku learns that he can be stronger in his Ultra Instinct Omen form because of his emotions.
@@Dickinthesenutzs27 It's pretty good. It's still not as well written as the original DB and Z were, but in my opinion it's way better than the writing in the anime. Between GT, the Super anime, and the Super manga, the manga is by far the one that feels the most like a decent DBZ continuation. I definitely recommend giving it a chance if the Super anime's not scratching that DBZ sequel itch for you.
The main issue I have with the "Super Goku" is the constant feeling of multiple personalities or a disorder like that. It didn't feel genuine. But after the Goku Black Arc, he feels like "GOKU" yknow. The love for fighting and the need to protect the ones he loves. He's in a natural habitat in a sense EDIT: The carefree nature in Z feels much less forced and more genuine. Super just feels rushed and forced.
I just want to say, my problem with Super's Goku is that they basically reverse him to what he always was, just leaving aside all the stuff he did before, especially during Cell's and Frieza's saga, especially at martial art's levels. I think his personality in Super is more than fitting, but a guy who goes from being able to dominate Super Saiyan, to someone who doesn't even know what meditation is, is pretty jarring. One thing is being oblivious about things you don't care about, and another forgetting fundamental things about the only damn thing he always do.
I think the one thing that really made me not like Goku's character in DBS was the scene with Vegeta meditating in DBS:SH and him talking about not getting stronger with that. It goes against the principles of what EVERY master has taught him (Whis included) and it confused me a lot. This video did improve my thinking of Goku though (not including DBS:SH), nice work!
That scene in Super Hero was one of the worst things Dragon Ball ever did to Goku, the main thing he's got is fighting and training, don't take that away from him.
Also if Toriyama itself don't considered him a hero,for me Goku is the Japanese Superman, a naive warrior who fight for protect the world from bad guys.
I don't think this defends much of anything of what's wrong with Super Goku. Yes, Goku didn't know how to distinguish boys from girls when he was a kid, since he had never seen a person of the opposite sex at that point and he did say he thought that "marriage" in the Japanese and "bride" in the English version was some kind of food, but again he was referring to the promise he made with Chi-Chi when they were young and why he made it back then. They did get married immediately after the battle with Piccolo and he had lived together with her and their son for around 5 years since then, before the beginning of Z and by then he had in fact learned how to distinguish boys from girls, so I guess he should have learned the other stuff as well. Goku wasn't THAT stupid, he was just severely uneducated because of the life he had led till that point. You can't tell me that Goku in the black arc who is 40 something years old (yes I didn't go out of my way to check, but considering Gohan should be in his 20s, so I guess he should be in his late 40s at that point) who is married for well over two decades and his friends are married with families as well, hasn't kissed his wife ever once or has not seen anyone else do it. Also you bring the point of Goku having to re learn all he learned as a kid about martial arts, because he was so focused on building up his power level till now, but just because it is not explicitly stated, doesn't mean Goku isn't using what he has learned before in all his fights after. Goku was always shown to be genius when it comes to fighting and with his martial arts upbringing ever since he trained with his grandpa, till his training with Kami, he was focusing on mastering his mind as well as training his body and then in "Super Hero" Vegeta has to explain to Goku of all people what meditation is? Even if he just stopped using his brain and was like "Oooh power level goes brrrr" trough the whole story of Z like you say, he still wouldn't forget the concept he trained and learned trough his whole childhood till early adulthood. In conclusion, I don't think people dislike Super Goku for his carefree character, but because they obviously degrade him by robbing him of the few things he should have already learned, to recycle the whole progression, or just for stupid one time gags like the one with the kissing, which just don't work with the adult Goku anymore. He isn't the little monkey boy with caveman intelligence that just came out from the woods anymore, he is adult person with a family that had lived few decades in society and more importantly, has his whole life as a martial arts experience and to rob him of that over and over is nothing but a character assassination.
I don't have any issue about him relearning the lessons he already learned in early DB. My main issue is that he's portrayed to be a complete idiot who forgets about literally everything important in his life. Gokū isn't forgetful. He's not smart, but he doesn't have dementia. Let's not forget that he came up with a year long plan to deal with Cell. I'm fine with him being an idiot, but Super portraying him to be a dementia patient is too much. This is why I prefer the Super manga. It still shows some of Gokū's absolute genius in terms of martial arts and his stupidity we saw in DB and Z, but it doesn't make him forgetful. He remembers the Senzu in the Black arc and he mistook Kame Sennin's comically large coupon for the seal. The latter is still a stupid moment, but it doesn't rely on the same gag of "oh, Son Gokū has no short term memory whatsoever."
Allow me to relay here again that these of course are my opinions. If you dont like him, thats fine, but try and give him a chance! The purpose of this video is to help some people see Super Goku from a new perspective and is not meant to single out anyone
That's Great man
Man im so happy to have a like minded fellow on dbz and their characters
Dude u are the absolute GOAT when it comes to these videos u release. From the background music to the visuals to the writing they go so well together
Can you do a video on Super Vegeta next? People say he underwent a character regression. Is that true?
@@jayramos7513 no its not true, he went through character devlopment
It's worth mentioning Super has A LOT more Slice of Life.
With more downtime, you get to see him be goofy more often.
THIS, nobody mentions this! Nobody also wants to mention most of his dumb scenes come from anime only which toei loves to add in for goku all the way from Z. Z has so many anime only moments that make goku look so goofy
Yeah z was mostly action, from the first episode till Cell died, only in the timeskip after they had rest lol and then buu kills everyone, oof
I actually liked the slice of life in Super outside of the Copy Vegeta stuff. Seeing characters that felt so raw and serious in Z or for me Kai act a bit more goofy was really fun and hilarious.
Which is an aspect I actually appreciate from Super.
I love the slice of life stuff that Goku has. Especially the baseball episode, which is my favorite episode in filter aspects.
I feel bad for Z Goku, honestly
He was always the laidback child like you said in the video
In Z, he was under constant stress that earth is under threat and that his whole family is going to die,
Him finding out that he is an alien, his brother is evil, there are other people like him that want to destroy earth, his best friend dying, and more
In Super he finally got some ''peaceful'' arcs for once (Beerus seeming like not a bad guy, and even then we saw Goku RAGED ''I will not let you destroy my WORLD'' because of the threat)
Let my guy chill for once
I wholeheartedly agree
Very true. Z has very little downtime. It's threat after threat. Goku has no time to be himself.
@@PKGamingOmega yeah
Beerus ain't even evil
He's just a force of nature
That also goes into why Gohan is a peaceful guy by nature. If anything he gets the Beast Mode from Chi Chi
Honestly on the topic of Gokus IQ, he's obviously never been a Bulma in that regard, but still, Goku in Super just FEELS Like He's Acting Like almost a Novice a fair bit of the time
Watch the video again
Maybe dragonball fans not beating allegations of not watching/reading.
How? give me some examples.
@@Spidey-ff8dc Ever-still, I’m still not a fan of Goku’s nature in Super, to be honest. This video explains why he behaves like this, and that he is fundamentally the same, but as a consumer, I’m still entitled to be disappointed if I feel like Goku feels a step behind how he was before.
@@Spidey-ff8dc dragon ball fans??? You mean powerscalers???
@@sincere0727goku not knowing what meditation. He did it in his training with Kami. And most likely with other masters.
8:02 to be fair on that bit, trunks did tell goku to only take the heart medicine once the symptoms appeared, not before they did. Now why he didn’t keep the medicine with him at all times is a far stupider thing on goku’s end
I'd say there was the risk of the vial getting damaged during training/combat with the Androids. All Gero would have to do is zap the vial with his eyes and there goes the Heart Virus cure.
@@SirCap worst case scenario they use the dragon balls to teleport to namek, the real stupid move was having piccolo participate in a fight. Actually, its hard to think of a cenario, besides raditz i guess, where bringing piccolo to a fight wasnt actively trolling.
@Phospholazuli It's wild how Piccolo goes from Earth's second strongest warrior while his life is tied to the dragon balls to Krillin's level of trying to maintain relevance by the end of Z.
These character analysis tickle my autism on an unparalleled level. Thank you for the effort you put into these. Heres to hoping this channel grows to the heights you want.
So true
After rewatching Dragon Ball, I have to agree. This is who Goku has always been.
Not a righteous hearted hero who fights to save people.
But a kind and honest martial artist who fights in order to push himself and others to always improve.
Which is why I'll always admire him for being a different kind of "hero" (in the west, at least).
W comment
Yea
So true.
Goku is a Hero in the literary sense. He is a main character who’s actions drive the narrative of the world around him. If you remove Goku the story falls apart. On the flip side Frieza is a Villain in the literary sense. A main character who’s actions drive the narrative. What separates Heroes and Villains in literature usually isn’t anything like morality. But the positions are determined by who’s the Protagonist of the story. If Frieza was the protagonist of Dragon Ball then Goku would be the villain of the story simply because his actions stand in direct opposition to Frieza
@@TheUncivilizedNation facts, but I think most people mean not in the popular way a 'hero' is seen as. Like Spider-Man. As he can still be selfish
You are starting to become my favorite Dragon Ball TH-camr for real. These character analysis videos on the Difference between Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Kai for me, and Dragon Ball Super are a breath of fresh air.
I've always known that Goku fundamentally has always been the same character. Getting started with Kai and not Z helped me to see the real Goku, because in Kai Goku's pretty much the same as in Super. Most people who think Goku's a ruined character have only watched the Funimation english dub of DBZ.
To truly understand Goku, watch him from the beginning of the series non dubbed and then watch Z subbed or Kai's english dub. Then when you get to Super, you'll see how Goku's fundamentally the same. I've definitely noticed that he's more goofy in Super, but everyone has been more goofy. We all saw Vegeta couldn't crack an egg in those filler episodes between B.o.G retelling and the R.o.F retelling 🤣🤣 oh funny stuff.
Point of my comment is Dragon Ball Super did not ruin Goku, most of the fandom has a distorted image of Goku through the Funimation english dub of Z.
You could even say GT
@@aidanlyons25 Yep, watch GT subbed instead of the dub. That shows dub was awful as hell and completely misrepresented Goku's character.
I agree the Funimation dub definitely had a fault to play with misinterpreting Goku's character. They wanted to make him a "superhero" so bad that damn near every interaction with his villians felt like some corny Superman dialouge(this was especially at its worst in GT). Idk why people want Goku to be a Superman clone when they are two completely diffetent characters
@@darke216 Right on brother. That's why I appreciate DBZ Kai so much, it aloud me to see the real Goku in a dub. I like subs too, but you can't go wrong with a solid dub like Kai and Super have.
@@Sugar_SpiceDB7ZS Yeah The Original dub for DBZ has ruined Goku's character for me
Im not going to lie, i was always a detractor when it came to how goku was characterised in super. It was always my biggest problem with the show, not the ludicrous power scaling at times, not the questionable writing at some times, not even the terrible production it had early on resulting in terrible animation (even if those issues still bugged me), it was always the way goku acted. That being said, this video actually made me reconsider a bit and appreciate gokus character in super and his progression a lot more than i used to. Even if i still don't particularly like how goku acts at times, (like him not knowing what medication is in super hero)i think that may just be my own personal preferences and biases at that point. Thank you for making this video, it genuinely saved super a little bit for me
Great video.
I was a bit of a Super hater for the last couple years. But I just reread and I gotta say that my opinions were warped by the monthly waits.
Goku feels like Goku in Super. I think it’s just easy for social media to form negative opinions that are not really present in the source material.
I have to say, I went into this video very skeptical, but I sat through the entirety because I wanted to hear a different opinion…and boy am I glad I did. Your arguments made a lot of sense and resonated in a way many other arguments haven’t been able to. I can only hope more people are open enough to try to understand a different side of the argument and watch your video through the entirety like I did. In short, thank you for helping me see our favorite Hero in a different light!
19:07 another thing id like to add which is something I never see anyone talk about,
Freiza from the beginning never trusted the saiyans because of the super saiyan legend, so he destroyed their planet to attempt to wipe out their race. In the tournament of power, him working with goku and the other people in the universe who he would kill any other day of the week taught him (as well as jiren) the value of trust. IN THE VERY NEXT ARC, he puts his nearly FULL trust in Broly to do his dirty work, a SAIYAN. not only that, but he was actually disappointed that Broly WASNT able to turn into a super saiyan, a complete 180 from his attitude in Z. That’s honestly one of my favorite arcs of db and no one seems to notice 😢
Damn I never really thought about that
That’s why I put Frieza in my top 3 most well-written characters of the franchise. The guy got some serious character development that people rarely mention just because he didn’t get redeemed.
Its important to note that how you watch the series is going to affect your perspective on the characters. In the english OG Funimation dub for example goku is characterized more as a superhero in his dialouge which skews his actual character portrayal from the japanese sub.
Tell ppl this 100 times and they listen 0 times
@@joelgaynor The creator of this video is also one of them it seems.
@@Prometheus4096You lack proper context to prove that. 😊
@@joelgaynortell to deez nuts
@@joelgaynorproper context deez nuts
Should mention the "Not knowing what a kiss is" scene was a misunderstood joke. As the joke is that Trunks was giving a kiss but mouth to mouth to feed a senzu bean to Mai. Which isn't exactly a kiss. The joke is that its a misunderstanding.
Yeah the various translations didn't make a good job, the Joke (like you said) Is Goku not understand the mouth feeding thing and vegeta being exposed about being romantical with Bulma xd
Also, kissing is a western concept that wasn't introduced to Japan and East Asian culture until the 19th century. As a pure martial artist, this fact could've been homage to the ancient warriors which Goku's mentality is partly modeled after.
@@PhilosopherRyan yeah, plus from what i remember toriyama said that he doesn't really like that kind of things because he wasn't good at writing romantic scenes and he was embarrassed to do it (at least this Is what i remember, there could be more that i forgot )
Olso goku in super or Z isn't dumb at all , he is just have a goofy personality wich makes people assume he is dumb
My god thank you for clarifying this
Great video. I appreciate how often you work to challenge popular narratives amongst the fandom. I do think that Toriyama isn't the greatest at executing a momentary regression for meaningful progression. I do believe more solid writing would make this process much more seamless and less jarring.
Agreed. The fanbase just took it to a whole nother level with "character assassination" and the like.
DB fans using a joke moment where Goku didn’t know what kissing was while Vegeta also stating how ridiculous it is to prove he’s a canonical dumbass in ONLY super will always be hilarious to me
They act as if he was any smarter in Z, like he was raised by some dude in a mountain ffs
@whoa_NellyIf you’re talking about Superhero, I think that part where Goku was questioning Vegeta on meditation wasn’t about Goku not knowing what it was but rather Goku not knowing Vegeta to be the type of guy to meditate when it comes to training.
@whoa_Nelly It’s not that bad. I watched Super and I thought it was fine. (Note, I have seen both BoG and RoF)
@whoa_NellyThis problem was literally explained better in the manga... ya'll shitheads really try to find every damn excuse to shit on Super... Yes it's flawed but crap give it a break my dude, go watch old DBZ if you hate super. I've watched all of the series and tried to enjoy all of them, I don't start bitching whenever I see or read a damn plothole, yes can be quite annoying but i learn to ignore it. Some of ya'll make these plotholes live in your head rent free...
@@TheCasual101Nah, gtfo. Not only manga came out later (Meaning that explanation was to cover their asses) but Goku literally forgets lessons he learned through DBZ during super.
Never treat opponent like a joke? - That MF forgets the first lesson he learned as a martial artist and not only he thinks Berus won't manage to harm him, he acts straight up arrogant. And that's literally begging of the F. show!
Amazing video. Definitely the best video I've seen explaining Goku's character, you truly understand his character more than 80% of "fans" out there. You sir have earned a well deserved like and a subscription.
Thank you gayninja6567
I absolutely love these character analysis videos. It really takes my understanding of them to another level, making me empathize more and even makes me emotional some times.
Keep up the awesome work, and much success to you my friend!
Damn, AWESOME analysis of Goku!
It teaches a lot and kinda feels like you understand the character better than 90% of the "Dragon Ball Z Fans" on the internet
XD
So true, this guy is becoming my favorite Dragon Ball TH-camr.
@@Sugar_SpiceDB7ZSAlready is
@@joelgaynor I've only been subscribed for a month, but he's really making an impression on me.
Most of the highly vocal haters of goku are just tfs fans who haven't even watched the show
Facts. They are only DBZ fanboys. Old Funimation dub DBZ fanboys at that. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Honestly Goku isn’t as dumb as people think. Don’t get me wrong, he’s pretty dumb on most things. But he is an absolute genius when it comes to martial arts. It’s on full display in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc where he is constantly outsmarting Piccolo. There’s more than one kind of intelligence, after all
Shows up a lot too in the Tournament of Power when he uses some crazy creative moves to keep up with Jiran when he doesn't have ultra instinct yet. That destructo disk trick was awesome, and something a fighter like Vegeta would never think of
And not just the fight per se. He is a incredibly smart at strategy and planning as well. Just look at how he approached his training going to Namek, or the training in the room of spirit and time before Cell (and compare with how Vegeta and everyone else fared with the same training). I would go as far as to say that Goku is a genius, and sometimes geniuses have blind spots in everyday life because they are so absorbed in their interests. :)
This guy doesn't understand Goku.
Goku was never stupid, but he was naive.
Okay, but come on. You cant pretend like goku not knowing meditation is training when he literally did it in the last arc
I feel like most people's view of goku comes from the OG funi dub where he was made out to be a bit more superman like
North American Dragon Ball "fans" refuse to let that shitty dub go. 🙄🤦🏼♂️
i agree with a lot of this already, i just wanted to say that the ending of this video being the broly movie ending into the end card was so great
This is a WONDERFUL video. It really reminded me about Goku and at the same time verify what I already knew about him. If you wanted to you could've also brought up GT Goku.
Guys, I think we need to send this to non-Dragon Ball fans who only thinks this show is ONLY about hair colour changes.
Absolutely
Strangely, GT goku is based off the original funi dub Goku, since Kai was made during the 20th anniversary of DB after GT aired on the 90s and ended. He is still quite the same fundamentally.
Holy moly this guy just continues to pump out bangers, i completely agree with your opinions man
Goku is a universal character development catalyst. It's in his nature to not only strive to be better than he was yesterday but inspire others to get stronger as well even if a bit of that is because he just likes to fight but he is a Saiyan sooooo😁😁😁
I am so glad this video exists. It really helps explain who goku really is. He’s not Superman, he’s his own person and really at his core wants to push his limits. However, it’s in conjunction with his kind heart that he often found himself on the good side of battles. But he is still a Saiyan no matter what. There are some things that’ll never change about him
A lot of people forget that just because someone learned something once or overcame a flaw once doesnt mean they wont have to win against it again. Flaws dont just disappear.
Can we at least agree Goku thinking meditation being dumb was just a blantent disregard for his character? He was doing meditation during the Buu Saga. He knows the importance of meditation
Let's be honest. The real reason is that so many different people have written Goku that there's not a lot of consistency in certain areas.
Also, Toriyama himself is notoriously forgetful and probably just forgot how much Goku had evolved in DBZ when he started writing Super.
You don't mention this, but Goku sparing Moro wasn't a stupid choice either. He knew that his current power far surpassed Moro at full strength, so he was giving the villain the choice of either going back to prision or dying.
Yep. And that well, Goku isnt a murder first kinda guy.
Ok but Moro is still fully capable of throwing a wah wah baby fit and blowing up the planet (which he almost does), it just goes against how Goku was in the Cell saga where he’s begging Gohan to finish Cell off (despite Gohan being far stronger than Cell at that point)
@@soggybozo1515There is still a difference that was outlined in the video, and that is that goku was giving moro one last chance at mercy, whereas gohan was only doing it to torture cell. Gohan was always planning on killing cell, but decided to torture and deconstruct him. Goku is still not fully committed to killing moro until he refuses his act of mercy.
it was a dumb decision that he made 20 years ago and had 0 reason doing ts
@@OmegaGravesread his comment properly
6:34 There is a lot to this part that is blatantly wrong. Goku has always been naive and carefree, but Super made him stupid and reckless.
He has a basic education because of Grampa Gohan and Roshi. But there are still things he doesn't know, because he was a kid. You show that Goku now understood what Chichi meant by marriage when he got older.
Goku is forgetful in Super. Forgetting to bring sensu beans in the Goku Black arc and the Broly movie. At End of Z, he doesn't forget that he has instant transmission. He has always been hyper focused on training.
Goku took the heart medicine as intended. He was told to take it as soon as symptoms arise. It just happened to be when he was fighting A19.
Goku's reason to not be revived was correct, it's literally the story of Z (excluding the Buu arc). These galactic treats only came to Earth because Goku was there. With the heart virus, it made Goku realize that he won't always be around. So he had to step aside so Gohan could be the protector of Earth.
The dumbest Goku has been was when he was a kid (shocker I know). The only time he was that dumb is in Super.
Goku in the future timeline defeated Freeza and King Cold. Because Trunks interfered with the present tl, Goku knew he didn't have to take action. Trunks even remarks how he made an unnecessary change in the timeline. Goku would have handled it if Trunks stayed back and watched from afar.
9:25 I only got up to this point in the vid and this comment is getting to long. There was a lot of misinfo and just useless padding that really annoyed me.
Yeah, he brings so much disingenous arguments. People don't dislike Super's goku because he is more "chill" or not serious enough, people dislike him because he is dumb. At instances, even dumber and more innocent than kid Goku. That meditation line goes against everything Goku is lmao. Goku was meditating for training when he was 13, he continued to use this method of traning for 30 years, just to be turned in a complet idiot that didn't know "meditation could be used to train 🤪🤪"
Not a single person understands Goku on a personal level because not a single human being alive can relate to him. Vegeta, on the other hand. We can ALL relate to. He's as real as real gets.
No, according to your comment we can’t even relate to Yamcha, and that would be an honour 😂😂
Yamaha has one of the saddest lives ever bruh you apparently have to become a desert bandit, struggle in a fight with what should be just a kid in your eyes, get saved by that same kid, get beaten in a tournament by a old man, get beat in another tournament by a bald Triclops who breaks your arm, be forced to train with that same guy to catch up to that same kid, have the guy who bested you that you finally caught up with get wrecked by that same kid cheat on the richest, woman in the world (which has to be character assassination cause WHY would you do that!?), get unlucky at dropping your guard when you know that your opponent should not be able to fight you after what you have done to them, die, come back just to train for 3 years and nearly die again, realize that your power is irrelevant and you can’t do anything about these threats so why should you try when everyone else is stronger, than you, has stronger techniques than you, better at both or better in every way when it comes to fighting?, start a base ball career finally be successful in your life long-term just to have that same career get you into a death match with Super Saiyan Gods, G.O.Ds, and aliens. And any time you return to the battle field you can’t beat basic fodder. Despite the fact that you and your friends should be way ahead of them because not everyone can be this strong right?
Yeah, as real as it gets. Just like when he almost killed Bulma and his own baby son on Android saga lmao. Or when he assassinated hundreds of people because he wanted to fight against Goku
At the end of the Dragonball Z manga, Goku was no longer wearing the turtle hermit gi. That visual alone gave Goku the look of a man who had mastered martial arts, he was no longer a student.
He became Uub's master, turning the universe's most feared creature into a humble pupil and imparting his knowledge, his way of life.
Then Battle of Gods and Resurrection F came along and tossed a wrench into everything, demoting Goku to a student.
Super doesn't belong in the timeline, considering that in the manga, 10 years passed without the mention of any key event taking place. Trying to fit Super in with Z is like trying to fit a circular peg in a triangular hole.
If you knew the first thing about martial arts you wouldnt say things like "he was no longer a student"
It's almost like Super happens before the end of Z lol
@@Santzu_It does??! 😮
I NEVER KNEW THAT 😮🤯
You do realize the super comes before the end of Z right?
I both agree and disagree with you. I think most of the problems with characterization in my opinion from the Super era (minus Battle of Gods to be honest) come from the anime and forced comedy. I'm glad the manga has been able to really shine recently and I greatly thank it.
I think I agree on nearly every point, but my brain cannot rationalize how he can conceive two children and go to at least one wedding besides his own and not know about kissing. Chi-Chi got him to get a job; she didn't get at least one kiss for the ENTIRE marriage? Really? It can't be. It just can't.
Thank you for using clips from Dragon ball Kai there i know it's kinda more canon to the manga adding to the fact here that I don't mind hearing Colleen Clinkenbeard voicing Gohan. I actually prefer her over Stephanie Nadolny when it comes to voicing Pre-Teen Gohan's character for me in my opinions
I'm actually kinda growing off Super anime because I thought of it sort of ruined Goku's character, though it's not the only reason, The 2 Zamasus ruined Future Trunk's character for me so much so that they made start thinking that Future Trunks' story should of ended after he killed Future cyborg 17, 18 and Imperfect cell so then afterwards I thought he didn't need a 2nd saga added to his life if Future trunks needs a 2nd saga I would of preferred one where his future was peaceful plus I also ended up despising the Golden Frieza Saga, Frieza should of stayed dead in hell in my opinions so thanks for clearing up and changing my thoughts and opinions of Kakarot/Goku's character here. Though the dbs Moro, Cereal and Superhero manga is a different story that has peaked my intrigues.
Damn, dude, what a very level-headed and well thought out video. Well done.
Just found your channel. I actually have rethought alot of my previous opinions now be cause of your outlook. Thanks for that. I'll keep watching..
I haven’t really liked Super the anime, but you gave me new perspective on Goku’s character in it’s regard
8:11 This is probably the only point I disagree with. Considering the vast majority of antagonists in Z almost all had something to do with either Goku's actions or just him living there. Piccolo Jr. wanted revenge. Raditz shows up cause of Goku being on earth which led to Vegeta and Nappa. The whole andriod saga was caused by kid Goku's actions.
I think this kinda connotes how Goku influences people in either a negative or positive aspect. I think people believe Goku regressed because Z went over the negative aspects of Goku's influence on people and his existence (Piccolo saga saiyan saga cell saga. Most positive aspects come from Z too but I think the main antagonist are more significant than Side characters like cell or vegeta and piccolo, possibly Fat buu but mostly mr. Satan?)
Whilst Super decides to go on the positive aspect of Goku's influence on people and his existence (Jiren, Hit, Beerus, Broly frieza and Fat Buu.)
@@joelgaynorI agree with what you said. My point towards the vid was countering the "Villians that had no relation to Goku" line
@DevilMarioProductions Well first point, the only antagonists relevent were before Cell, since thats when Goku decided to stay dead. Secondly, the majority of the antagonists were either a side effect of Goku's existence(Raditz and the other Saiyans) or cause of his actions (Androids, Cell, Gero. This is also related to Bulma telling goku that danger surrounds him in Og dragonball) The point is up to Cell, most antangonists had a relation to Goku.
Raditz and Dr. Gero were the only ones who had direct reasons why they would want to go after him. Raditz wanted to recruit Goku for their planetary conquest but Goku refused. Dr. Gero wanted revenge on Goku for destroying the RR Army. All the others had nothing to do with him.
Vegeta and Nappa wanted the earth dragonballs. Frieza wanted the Namekian dragonballs. The androids just did their own thing while using Dr. Gero's command to kill Goku as an excuse. Cell just wants to be perfect but used Goku as his benchmark because again, Dr. Gero. The Buus are just menaces.
Goku was just in the way of most of the villains
@@Saber_Nico Yes, Raditz and Gero did have direct reasons. Vegeta and Nappa were a domino effect of Raditz. The andriods were only created because of Gero hating Goku, and the buu's don't matter since thats after goku wanted to stay dead not before.
Bro gave me a life lesson next to a explanation
GREAT vid and it unintentionally points out a major issue in online-Dragon Ball discourse...
People leave to watch the flavor-of-the-month-animes and come back to Dragon Ball with flavor-of-the-month-expectaions.
But Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. Stop expecting Goku to be the modern-Shonen Protagonist. He's always been Son Wukong, and most people enjoy that.
Love this analysis, recently got interested in Dragon Ball and I love it!!!
0:26
That is so untrue. People just cant stand that Goku is a bit of a doodoo besides batteling. Fact is he always has been and he always will be and thats why i love the character.
Oh man I loved this. I’ve always seen Goku as a giant kid, hyper focused on his favorite things. He’s always been a simple joyful person. He’s a little dense sure but he’s a good hearted combat genius.
Growing up with the Latin spanish dub of Og Dragon ball, I never understood my some people think that Goku is some sort of "superman" type hero
Yeah me too
Your videos are good shit. Most anime content creators are cringe but you're a chill guy. Good shit🤙🏾
Yeah. Flawed character doesn't always mean terribly written.
Great video, thanks for talking about this topic alot of critics do not understand goku especially super Goku especially Saiyan scholar and others no offence to him .congratulations 🎉you have gotten a new subscriber
Especially CasualAnimeGuyExplains
@@koffibentum7452 yeah,I watched his video on gokus character,he misunderstood somethings
@@uzookafor8721 Not only some things but Alot of things that will make you question his knowledge on the franchise
My issue is when he forgets things that his character would NEVER forget like in the dbs manga when he acts like he didnt know what meditation is
That being said i love the breakdown and i love how much he influenced frieza. Frieza didnt kill the saiyans, simply one shotted them and let them train to try to beat him. Thats goes back to RoF when goku told him hed be such a great rival if he only trained instead of focusing on killing/revenge
He did know mediation in the manga, just surprised to see Vegeta is the one doing it
most people who think hes changed, haven't seen the real goku, or haven't watched the original dragon ball imo. He was always this way, he's always been a lovable dimwitted goof who just loves a good brawl. DBZ forced him to be more serious than before, and made him think about the future with opponents coming onto their doorsteps one by one. he still never dropped that innocence though, sparing everyone he possibly could until the very end with Uub.
It's particularly clear if you listen to his original voice, where he literally sounds the same as he did as a child in Dragon Ball. He is basically a child-man. The dub giving him an actual adult man's voice really changes peoples' perception of him.
Even toriyama wasn't aware of this.
Youre videos are just amazing.
Psychology behind every word is researched.
"goku was smarter and more serious in z"
z goku gave cell a senzu bean. he's always been a goofy idiot. that's why we love him
This channel is unfathomly based, only the greatest manga of all time would get this level of quality, please make a video all about Granolah
you make solid points honestly never thought about super goku this way. Nice vid, keep it up :)
When you study psychology, you will eventually know about Jungian Archetypes. And Goku is the perfect example of The Fool archetype. He became a Hero not by choice but by circumstances (one of the Archetype's tropes), he tent to be funny and light hearted because the guy just wants to have some fun. He plays dumb most of the time just to avoid expectations because he wants to things go on his way. Goku is the quintessential Fool.
I feel like there's a lot of dialogue in Super that really makes him seem dumber than he ever was in Z. Like it would make sense for kid Goku at the beginning of the series to not know what a kiss is, but after being married for years? Or him not knowing what image training is in Super Hero
Fr
Goku is based. U aware pimps exist now tell me have u seen a pimp kiss a female. Vegeta is more into human customs . Thinking of names for his new child, showers with his wife, tea time dances for a God to appease him and so on
The main problem is People are overly critical. They take very minor things set out as jokes and use it as a negative plot point or "regression" when in reality it's for comedic purposes. We use Kid Goku because in those scenes it's for comedic reasons and not to be taken literally. It's funny how they criticise a kiss joke when In Z Goku is scared of needles even though he has endured and encountered way More lethal and intimidating things, simply put it's for humorous scenes. The image training is something Goku constantly does in the Super Anime and manga (which fixed the dialogue) so I think it's a minor mistake by the crew who did the dialogue of Super Hero. Let's not be pessimistic 😅😂
In the Sub they never use Kiss
Vegeta just asked him if he has ever done that before and the original scene was supposed to be that Goku never fed someone a sensu bean like that because Trunks mama bird fed Mai and Goku never did that.
@@joelgaynor I find it pretty funny that the kissing scene is something may take as some sort of plot point when the anime has constantly proving over and over again that it's written as a joke
I definitely think that the hate DBS receives from a fraction (note: it is only a fraction and not the majority) of the DB fandom stems from the fact that DBS Goku isn't the 'serious, icy, dominating, warrior of justice' that they want him to be. I think some people want a hero who will play out a power fantasy. They want the same from Gohan, and are therefore annoyed when Gohan rightly chooses a family life over the life of a warrior. Gohan has always been a gentle, nurturing soul. But some fans want Gohan stuck in the "Snapped, vengeance against Cell" mode, because it better fits into their desire for a character that icily overwhelms every opponent.
Goku is goofy and playful. He isn't a warrior of justice, though he has fought for vengeance on behalf of his friends. Goku likes fighting, not dominating opponents. And Goku is really only serious when he perceives his friends are in danger or when he's against a superior opponent. But he is also selfish. He will shelf his responsibilities if it means having a good fight or getting stronger. He has always been this way.
W
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On the note of Goku staying dead after the Cell saga because he felt the Earth would be safe, at that point in time, he had the right idea.
Piccolo Junior was birthed because of him, the Saiyans and Frieza came to Earth because of him, AND the Androids were made to KILL him. And in Future Trunks' Timeline? The Androids nearly destroy the world. He felt like he was just one big magnet for disaster, and lo and behold, the second he comes back to Earth for a day, Vegeta ends up going Majin and his fight with Veggie releases Majin Buu.
While you can argue that the plan to revive Buu were being set in motion *before* Goku came to Earth, it doesn't excuse the other examples.
Frieza mever came to Earth *at that point in time*
But I understand your point
Love your content friend!
Super goku is the goku he needs to be.
But if you want to do this right realize that if you follow the character arch and watch from ages.
1-14 (age)
Goku is carefree and only becomes tough when needed
15-20s
Goku is going threw it, a new dad and coming to the age where learning is hard, mistakes are made and things are learned again, the hard way
30s+
Learning how to merge your inner child and being the idol your kids need you to be
People don’t want to see this because life is hard and realizing that growing old can mean being a child again is hard for people to grasp.
Totally badass awesome excellent video analysis. You get the character much more better than some "fans of the internet"
What about he Get deez nuts
I think that Goku has actually gotten dumber in Super. He wasn't as over the top in Z.
Ultimately, his stupidity and naivety are over the top for marketing reasons. Kids like silly characters and children's cartoons get softer and sillier with time, both in the East and West.
I also don't like Goku having to relearn old lessons, but I understand it's for the target audience and I can see why you like it.
Z Goku didn't build on those lessons. Super Goku did.
Z Goku also forgot lessons in OG and force more power
I just found this channel today but I had to let you know how much I like it. Subscribed and eager for more!
i think goku wanting to stay in the after life made sense actually, the entire saiyan thing happened because raditz wanted goku, the frieza thing happened because of the saiyans, the entire android and cell thing happened because they wanted goku, then the buu thing happened because they wanted the energy of the fighters, which him being dead wuldnt have prevented, but at that point he just wanted to be safe since most other things were caused because of people wanting him dead
Great video, you definitely explained it perfectly, i was hesitant but you made great points🗿🤝🗿
8:23 Alright you can't blame him but LOL THATS FUNNY
Z Goku acted generally more mature than Super Goku, and that's my whole problem with super, i really don't care about the rest actually.
Z Goku ruined Goku. Goku was a jokester the ENTIRE dragon series.
At the end of the day goku is still the same pure hearted saiyan who cares for his friends and loves fighting.
Bro to clarify Goku has always had this personality that is supposedly new in Super. Does anyone remember the Cell Senzu Bean bs? And what about his moments away from the battle? He has always been kind of an idiot but in a funny way. Fight me.
No need. The Z elitist have been coping so hard to the point they generally believe Goku off the battlefield or on it was this serious always 100% in the moment stoic warrior.
@joelgaynor the z elitists were crying salty tears when this video came out
@@SwordMaster3000 facts All day.
Goku is a big part of the reason why I am who I am. Ever since I was a kid, the morals he taught helped shape me. He’s also part of the reason why I became a professional strongman. Thank you so much Akira
PLEASE WHAT IS THE SONG PLAYING @ 9:33 PLEASE BRO PLEASE
I'VE BEEN SEARCHING FOR MONTHS
No more DBZ KAI
@@joelgaynor Thank you so much, bountiful harvests fall on you
@@JohnZambarau np
babe wake up, planet level posted
8:03 Raditz came to earth for him, and then vegeta and nappa came to earth for the dragon balls, which they learned about through Raditz. i guess you can say freeza wasn't anything to do with him, but he's still the reason mecha freeza came to earth, threatening his friends again. and the androids were made by gero in order to kill goku. any time a threat came to, or appeared on earth was becauise of him in z, until Buu.
Even then, Buu is a threat because of Gohan’s awakening, which Goku indirectly caused. It was fair for him to assume he’d be an attraction to bigger and larger threats than Earth could handle.
To be fair he didnt take his heart medicine in z because he got sick years later than trunks said he would.
Underrated videos man good work!
Should‘ve shown the scene when Krillen throws a rock after Goku while he was relaxing and didn’t dodge it
He didn't forget to take his heart medicine he was told to start taking it once symptoms started showing, but he got caught up and hunting down the androids when the symptoms started to show up. It sorted of complicated things.
The issue I take with DBS Goku is mostly if not entirely anime exclusive. It's not that he's stupid or selfish or most of the other things people usually complain about. It's his maturity. Goku's progression from the original series to Z is Goku growing from a child to an adult. He retains many of his core personality traits but tempers them somewhat with the maturity that comes with growing older and taking on more responsibilities. We see Goku go from being a naïve child in the original series to doing his best to be a father and planning out his own retirement for the next generation to take over in Z. It's the story of a boy becoming a man and accepting that his time in the spotlight has come and gone and that it's becoming time for new stories to be told.
In the DBS anime, it feels like most of this adulthood has been stripped from his personality and he's regressed to being more or less how he was at the end of the original series, and occasionally even earlier than that. He comes off as a child in an adults body, not yet ready for responsibilities and all too eager to hog the spotlight despite him planning out his retirement for half of Z.
In the Manga this is generally less of an issue. He doesn't act like a child anywhere near as often and generally tends to have behavior more in line with how he was throughout Z. In the manga, it also comes off less as Goku hogging the spotlight and more like he's undergoing a new journey of self discovery. The realization that he was actually a Saiyan was worldview changing for him back in early Z, and Vegeta's plea on Namek was the push he needed to embrace that heritage of his even if only just a little bit. He never took pride in being a Saiyan, but he embraced that he was one nonetheless and leaned into using that knowledge to develop himself and his fighting style. Then he discovers another path in Super and starts embracing it instead, only to suddenly remember his parents when he hears his father's voice in an old Scouter recording, and what his father has to say awakens his Saiyan pride when nothing before ever could.
Goku still plans on making way for the next generation, that much hasn't changed, but now he has this balled up tension of inner conflict regarding who he is and what kind of fighter he wants to be. He was raised on Earth and taught an entire method and mindset about fighting that he was later able to continue when training with the gods themselves, but he's also become acquainted with a contrary method and mindset passed on to him by his brother, his father, and even Vegeta. Both of these are strongly engrained into who he is as a person deep inside, and only by learning how to make these two opposite extremes come together in harmony can he truly become both Son Goku and Kakarot; The Saiyan who was raised on Earth and mastered both the calm of the stone and the raging waves. It's no coincidence I think that in the Manga Goku learns that he can be stronger in his Ultra Instinct Omen form because of his emotions.
is the manga like well written?
@@Dickinthesenutzs27 It's pretty good. It's still not as well written as the original DB and Z were, but in my opinion it's way better than the writing in the anime. Between GT, the Super anime, and the Super manga, the manga is by far the one that feels the most like a decent DBZ continuation. I definitely recommend giving it a chance if the Super anime's not scratching that DBZ sequel itch for you.
@@Crow_Rising ok btw hows your day, hoping it aint bad
The main issue I have with the "Super Goku" is the constant feeling of multiple personalities or a disorder like that. It didn't feel genuine.
But after the Goku Black Arc, he feels like "GOKU" yknow. The love for fighting and the need to protect the ones he loves. He's in a natural habitat in a sense
EDIT: The carefree nature in Z feels much less forced and more genuine. Super just feels rushed and forced.
I just want to say, my problem with Super's Goku is that they basically reverse him to what he always was, just leaving aside all the stuff he did before, especially during Cell's and Frieza's saga, especially at martial art's levels. I think his personality in Super is more than fitting, but a guy who goes from being able to dominate Super Saiyan, to someone who doesn't even know what meditation is, is pretty jarring. One thing is being oblivious about things you don't care about, and another forgetting fundamental things about the only damn thing he always do.
Man Ur videos are amazing 😁👍🏻😄
"I thought a bride was something to eat..."
I mean... He's not wrong...
It really doesn’t matter everything works out in the end for goku because he is pure of heart
I think the one thing that really made me not like Goku's character in DBS was the scene with Vegeta meditating in DBS:SH and him talking about not getting stronger with that. It goes against the principles of what EVERY master has taught him (Whis included) and it confused me a lot. This video did improve my thinking of Goku though (not including DBS:SH), nice work!
That scene in Super Hero was one of the worst things Dragon Ball ever did to Goku, the main thing he's got is fighting and training, don't take that away from him.
You nearly lost me but by the end you got me, and honestly I don’t dislike goku as much in super
well in gokus defense he was dead for 7 years without issue. he came back for one day and buu was released. so he kinda had a point.
nice work man
This Is the epitome of semantics. No, Goku got dumbed down HARD in super, they needed to reset him so he could grow again. Cheap.
Another Great video by you planet level
i still remember being extra mad because they made him of all the characters call meditation "useless" while he did it all the time in DB/DBZ
I think you missed that chichi didn't want him to fight.
Goku be playing dumb like Luffy he knows what's going on he just doesn't give a FUughhk
Also if Toriyama itself don't considered him a hero,for me Goku is the Japanese Superman, a naive warrior who fight for protect the world from bad guys.
I don't think this defends much of anything of what's wrong with Super Goku. Yes, Goku didn't know how to distinguish boys from girls when he was a kid, since he had never seen a person of the opposite sex at that point and he did say he thought that "marriage" in the Japanese and "bride" in the English version was some kind of food, but again he was referring to the promise he made with Chi-Chi when they were young and why he made it back then. They did get married immediately after the battle with Piccolo and he had lived together with her and their son for around 5 years since then, before the beginning of Z and by then he had in fact learned how to distinguish boys from girls, so I guess he should have learned the other stuff as well. Goku wasn't THAT stupid, he was just severely uneducated because of the life he had led till that point. You can't tell me that Goku in the black arc who is 40 something years old (yes I didn't go out of my way to check, but considering Gohan should be in his 20s, so I guess he should be in his late 40s at that point) who is married for well over two decades and his friends are married with families as well, hasn't kissed his wife ever once or has not seen anyone else do it. Also you bring the point of Goku having to re learn all he learned as a kid about martial arts, because he was so focused on building up his power level till now, but just because it is not explicitly stated, doesn't mean Goku isn't using what he has learned before in all his fights after. Goku was always shown to be genius when it comes to fighting and with his martial arts upbringing ever since he trained with his grandpa, till his training with Kami, he was focusing on mastering his mind as well as training his body and then in "Super Hero" Vegeta has to explain to Goku of all people what meditation is? Even if he just stopped using his brain and was like "Oooh power level goes brrrr" trough the whole story of Z like you say, he still wouldn't forget the concept he trained and learned trough his whole childhood till early adulthood. In conclusion, I don't think people dislike Super Goku for his carefree character, but because they obviously degrade him by robbing him of the few things he should have already learned, to recycle the whole progression, or just for stupid one time gags like the one with the kissing, which just don't work with the adult Goku anymore. He isn't the little monkey boy with caveman intelligence that just came out from the woods anymore, he is adult person with a family that had lived few decades in society and more importantly, has his whole life as a martial arts experience and to rob him of that over and over is nothing but a character assassination.
It's true that Goku has always been non serious but if you read the dbs manga this is literally gokus face the whole time O○O
I don't have any issue about him relearning the lessons he already learned in early DB. My main issue is that he's portrayed to be a complete idiot who forgets about literally everything important in his life. Gokū isn't forgetful. He's not smart, but he doesn't have dementia. Let's not forget that he came up with a year long plan to deal with Cell. I'm fine with him being an idiot, but Super portraying him to be a dementia patient is too much. This is why I prefer the Super manga. It still shows some of Gokū's absolute genius in terms of martial arts and his stupidity we saw in DB and Z, but it doesn't make him forgetful. He remembers the Senzu in the Black arc and he mistook Kame Sennin's comically large coupon for the seal. The latter is still a stupid moment, but it doesn't rely on the same gag of "oh, Son Gokū has no short term memory whatsoever."