Triangle Labs CHC Hotend Caused Fire | Dangerous 12V 3D Printer Upgrade
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มี.ค. 2022
- Not all 3D printer upgrades work great, and this one was dangerous at worst and at best didn't work. I don't like making negative reviews, but the 12 Volt CHC kit doesn't work.
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🔥🔥🔥 I explain safe wiring methods in the middle of this video 🔥🔥🔥
🔥🔥🔥🔥 since Triangle Labs doesn't explain it anywhere 🔥🔥🔥🔥
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This review mostly covers the 12 Volt kit of this hotend. I didn't try it on a 24V printer since I really wanted it on my Anycubic Mega S, and since they list it for 12V systems then it should have worked.
I think the main issue here is the DC-DC boost board not being strong enough. A larger spec 12V to 24V MOSFET might be what this needs to work correctly, but I was reviewing it as shipped.
I spent a week trying different methods to get this working. I tried keeping a fan on the Voltage Booster to keep it running. I tried 3 different booster boards to make sure it wasn't just one cheap board not working.
I'll update this description if TriangleLabs gets back to me on about this.
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I just heard back from TriangleLabs, and they added a circuit diagram to their product listing. They also said they will be delisting the 12V option until they can do more testing. I respect a company that listens like this, and will change when they are wrong.
Stay frosty in milk JJ
@@MrBeast-1 Haha my life's moto!
Darn.. I wish I saw your video before I bought my 12v set for my Anycubic Kossel.. They're still selling the 12v kit on their Aliexpress store, but now with a wiring diagram...
Any idea if the chart they have there is correct..?
Buy 24volt PSU 5 amps and one big MOSFET. You need it last a Buck Converter with 5 amp.
@@muller86wolf a separate 24V rail is probably a better idea. These boosters are always, ALWAYS overrated, only use them for low wattage use.
So with your electric engineering degree you sent a PWM signal into a PWM boost converter and were surprised it didnt work !
In future there is a setting in marlin which lets you adjust the PWM frequency or use "Bang bang".
but no matter because that looks like a Xl6009 to me which is rated for 4A in perfect condition and will not boost to +50W with a 12v input.
I'm surprised trianglab did this ! One question tho , is it xl6009 ?
Yeah, 1:30 I asked myself the same. These are good for low current fans and that's about it.
Very great video and amazing points of safety and effort. Love your videos JJ.
Technically speaking, using those buck converters is not incorrect. Though, it's not designed to handle the loads a bed or hotend requires.
Since they're rated for approx. 2A without heatsink, 3A max current WITH REQUIRED heatsink [mine have these ratings, not 4A), it's no wonder why they did burn.
Actually, the only "valid" application for this in 3D printing is to drive 12V fans on a 24V system. It works perfectly that way (that's what I'm doing) ... although some signal smoothing should be used too. :)
Thanks for looking into it. I’ve purchased it as well, but hadn’t had the time to change it on my printer. I guess I’ll start looking for another converter before even trying.
I think it still looks like a good hotend, but yeah it will need a bigger MOSFET voltage booster.
Thanks a Lot. Helpt me to save a lot of Money. Will not think about upgrading my old trolled System anymore.
Correct me if I'm wrong, if u wanto drive a 60w heater at 24v, the output current is about 2,5amps. What means u gonna have at least 5amps on the 12v side, or more regarding the dissipating heat. Im not that sure these cheap boosters are made for that much current
That is exactly correct. The listing for the voltage converter said 4V output current, but that must be instantaneous peak voltage or just incorrect marketing. These little things are not made for this. It would probably work on a much larger one though
I have a question. Couldn’t you have just suggested a proper boost converter? Because, you know, those do exist.
You could perhaps put multiple converters in parallel to cover the current needs of the heater? However, if the converters cut off GND I'm wondering whether that would actually work ...
Hey, great Video! By coincidence i just today tried this thing on my 12v printer and wondered why it couldnt keep the temperature when extruding. And then i did some research in this boost converter, i immediately thought that thing is not suited for this application 😆
Did you do a pid tuning for it?
Your wiring in the second diagram is correct but those boost converters are not up to the task. I wouldn't run them at more than 2A input and at that point they would probably need a fan to keep them cool. They are good for fans and LEDs though. There are larger boost converters available that can power that hotend. I'm currently using a Gowoops 150W boost converter from Amazon to power everything but the bed on a Voron V0.1, boosting from 12v to 24v. They are 2 for $15 and are more than adequate for powering a hotend. I would power it directly from the PSU and give it it's own separate fuse.
Thanks you saved me. I'm converting an Anet A6 to an i3 style and was just going to upgrade the hotend to this in a Hero ME Gen7 but keep the 12v power supply. I've changed my mind and am going to spend another $21 to get a 24v PS. I saw what they were advertising and alarms went off in my head like what? No way that would reliably work and my hunch was right. Thanks again!
Yikes. I was just checking this out last night. Fortunately I only have 24v printers, but still. 😬
looking at the 12V setup the way they added a boost driver for high wattage usage I knew it was a problem right away, I got the 24V version coming in the mail.
I kinda though those would not work, as it draws a lot of current. But you can find suitable converters for it. There are 250w boost converters that cost like 2$.
my mks nano robin v 1.3 says "12/24v" on the connector over the board. show do i know wich one should i use?
That means the motherboard can use either 12V or 24V. Check if your power supply is 12 or 24V. That will be your answer
I wouldn't trust those buck boost converters to provide greater than 1A. Also, did you try using a 5-10A variable power supply to see the current limits under load.
What if you tried a heated bed mosfet board and just use the motherboard output as signal pins.
those tiny boost converters are rated for like 3-5A max, on the input you've probly drawn over 8A
After so long, haven't you tried the 24v version?
...but if I have a 24V PSU that came stock in my printer (Elegoo) should I still consider this hot end?
I haven't tested it on 24V yet, but I think it would be a great choice. It is so easy and compact to work with.
guess that calls for separate 24v psu and hotend driver board if 12v for the rest of system is a must.
It could work off of a more substantial MOSFET, but that would cost as much as the CHC hotend. The whole system could be converted to a 24V PSU, but again that would be a bigger project.
I think you should set the voltage under load.
After doing some FPV drone stuff using external voltage regulators and just having them from time time time explode, I'm always weary of using them. If I can find a good solution that doesn't require a one, I go that route. One less thing that can fail. Case in point, I keep seeing people using Noctua fans on Ender 3 type 24V printers. Noctuas are fantastic fans, but they're not the only good quality quiet fan out there and are only 12V, and I keep seeing people insist on using them anyway with a voltage converter. I never understood why with so many good 24V fan options out there.
I haven’t had any problem with Noctua fans with external voltage regulator…but I agree with you, I also try to avoid using these. BTW what 24V fans do you recommend?
I totally agree with the "One less thing to fail" mentality. Especially with electronics and powerful heaters like this.
Seems that as of June 6, Trianglelabs released a new 12v version that doesn’t require a buck converter.. Thoughts on that..?
That looks like the logical thing they should have done to begin with. Probably would work great, I'll have to test one out sometime.
@@JJShankles they probably wanted to save a buck or two on production cost with a single production line of 24v versions and getting away with just using el-cheapo converters instead…
Or I though they would just sell a 24V option only. Almost all new printers are 24V anyways
Just putting this here... I ordered a 2nd "new" 12v unit from them in July and sold the old one from March as a 24V unit on a local Craisglist.. However it seems the new one still came with a step-down board but Trianglelabs says it's not needed. Only difference between the old one and the "new" one in July appears to be a "12V" sticker on the package.
However my "new" 12V unit (supposedly no longer needs the step-down board) does not heat-up beyond 210C in a PID tune, and Trianglelabs says it's my software issue (which is not the case since my previous V6 heater cartridge had no issues going to 240C). Seems I either got a faulty unit, or I still got a 24V unit masquerading as a 12V unit..
How's the flow on a 24v?
As soon as I saw the boost converter I thought uh oh, that's not good. I am pretty sure the max 4A (which is pretty optimistic anyway) is peak and not sustained. Definitely not something I would ever want to use for a hot end. This sounds a lot like someone at Triangle Labs just picked a cheap boost converter that looked like it had good enough specs, but never did any testing.
He says he wired it up wrong in the opening minute. It's user error. The wiring diagram is on the store page....very much a big fail from this youtuber and no one else's fault.
@@backgammonbacon what about the other problems? Lol
Clearly they didn't test it. Yes, yours caught fire because you wired it wrong, but them not testing something that gets really hot in normal use is a very bad look for the entire brand. Thanks for continuing to make Ai3M vids!
Thanks, I'm glad you like the videos! After I emailed them they said they would delist the 12V option soon so they can do some testing. Good to see they are at least listening
its a shame the 12v version exists as I've got the 24vstandard and "pro"/volcano version and they're really nice. this is such a stupid issue as well, glad you caught it and are bringing this to their attention
That's good to hear that it works on 24V. I really think this is a cool little device, and I would love to get it working one day. I just wish they had paired it with a good voltage converter
@@JJShankles is there a reason they couldn't do a 12v PTC heater?
I'll ask them if they respond to my email, but that seems like a possibility. It would just need a different heater resistance, it might be a smaller marker since most new printers being made are 24V
@@JJShankles yeah thats what makes the 12v version even weirder, you have to go back fair few years on commercial printer side to find a 12v machine, so I eel like they're more likely to just drop this variant and stick with 24v
Convert the anycubic to 24v
You could probably make it work if you used a higher quality booster but at the price it kind of defeats the point of the low-cost version of the rapid that is the CHC.
Higher power boost converters do not cost more. There are 150w,250w and 300w models for few dollars.
@@Nobody-Nowhere oh that's cool. Good to know!
The correct wiring diagram is on the store page for this product.
I see it now, but that picture was not there last weekend when I was trying to figure this out. And I double check that page so many times. They also haven't added it to their own triangle labs website.
But that is only part of the problem. When I bought the identical replacement part, it is under the proper spec and doesn't give enough power to heat the hotend
"CHC Hotend cased fire" .... hmmmmm..... just wonder, what hotend has to do with all of it when the booster cannot provide sufficient amperage and has "exploded", move onto 24V systems mate 😊, believe you have to rename the post !
well this is a review of the converter not the hotend. while i appreciate that converter is not up to the job a more objective review would have suggested to bin it and get an appropriate one.
I can tell you mine works well on 24v. Ok now I will get a little crazy with wiring ideas. On the Anycubic the hot bed has a a external mosfet. So… I bet you already see where this is going. Take wires from power supply to convert into mosfet power in and then out of mosfet power out into hotend. Now the mosfet control wiring should be the hotend output on your motherboard. Of course your heated bed will not be working at this time. But if it works then you can pick up the mosfet cheap on Amazon. Side note the heated bed on the Anycubic will work with 24 volt… so you could run two power supplies and feed mosfet for heated bed with 24v and the mosfet for hotend with the new 24v. Ok so none of the above is what triangle labs had for a plan I suspect.
But at that point… is it better to just pick up a cheap BTT SKR e3 mini 3.0v and a 24v power supply and run everything in 24V. Because that works well. Only things to watch out for is fans that are 12V. Then again you can go octopus 1.1v keep your drivers and it has fan outputs you can simply change jumpers for 5V, 12, 24v. And not have to worry about fans at all just adjust jumpers for the appropriate fans… ok now I am crazy.
The control board that comes with the Anycubic Mega S can handle either 12 or 24V, so I wouldn't even need to change that out. I could eventually change the power supply to a 24V one, then use some step down voltage converters just for the fans. Haha there are several viable options for approaching this hotend, the real issue is that they sold one of the few options that won't work.
@@JJShankles I wasn’t aware that it was 24v as well. This is good to know as I still have that board kicking around. I honestly went a bit overboard after my purchase of my Anycubic mega X. I now am running corexy motion system on a custom frame I built with liner rails. So hardware wise the following is on my printer. Original steppers from the Anycubic mega z axis for my Z. BTT octopus, LDO steppers for XY, a orbiter 2.0 extruder and just putting on a Revo micro E3D, also carbon fiber gantry. Oh my this has become a expensive hobby. I really truly thank you for your Videos as when starting and learning Klipper on the Anycubic you where a serious asset. You also where a inspiration into the hobby even though the Anycubic is basically no longer a Anycubic I still enjoy your videos and picking up the little things I haven’t learned yet. So a big thank you and serious keep up the great work, your channel has come so far already it’s a pleasure to follow you.
XL6009 has only max 3 amps input 😱 CHT hotend has 4 amps. Stupid Triangle labs 😒
So... Mister EE (from RecycleBin)...
TCHC TD6 has a rating of 24V 65W and your booster module supplies about 40W... EE 101, do the math!
First connection diagram is 25000% wrong! (A real EE would know this)
Get a separate 24V 75W power supply or a 10A 12->24V booster module.
Ok. So it was your fault...why didn't you just use 12v hotend?
They sold this kit for 12V printers, but it will burn on 12V. That's why I made this video.
Hi JJ
I've used these boost converters in other projects and their output current is vastly overrated. Some sellers rate these at 3A while other claim 4A. In my experience, this is at best a absolute maximum for short periods. Others use the 4A in reference to the input current which might be more realistic. In your case, ignoring losses in the boost circuitry, it would require over 4A at 12v to drive a 50w, 24v heater. In short, I would work fine with a best converter with tat least wice the capacity of the one they provided.
That's what I was thinking, 4A output current on their listing sounded way too good to be true, but I guess they can say anything on an Amazon listing.
Pretty sure your shoddy engineering work caused the fire, not the hot end itself. I like how the title alludes that it's Triangle Lab's fault, but one look at that dinky board says no way it can handle 50W requirement for a heat block. Your pinned comment still doesn't accept responsibility for your reckless engineering efforts. And to Trianglelab's defense, they cater to enthusiasts, and no self described enthusiast would a) underspec the conversion board, and b) wire the conversion board after a solid state relay that is designed to pulse on/off then c) go on to make video with a bait title to blame the supplier. The issue doesn't even matter if it's high side or low side switching.
You also took the Shenzhen special listing at face value. It's not 4A at 24V. There's a current to voltage curve of how much it can output based on input voltages. I really doubt your claims to an EE degree.
If you accepted responsibility and instead of baiting us into thinking it's trianglelab's fault with your title, it would show you have integrity instead of this crap.
I stopped watching the moment after you said you'd wired up a simple LM2477 wrong, then admitted you have a degree in electrical engineering.. Not subscribing to idiocy
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