Caliber to caliber comparison
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- First published on our Patreon channel, / therealgunsmith we now share it with our broader audience on Rumble and TH-cam. There are always a minimum of 48 exclusive videos on our Patreon channel, as well as items of interest to shooters, history buffs, Cathy's photography, artography and just tid-bits we like to share. We truly appreciate our Patrons, and followers on TH-cam and Rumble.
In this video Randy compares many of the “new” hyped calibers to the tried and true calibers that they are trying to replace.
6.5 PRC vs. .264 Win.;
6.8 Westerner vs. .270 Wby.;
27 Nos vs. 270-300 Wby;
7 Rem vs. 7 Wby;
28 Nos vs. 7STW;
7x300 Wby 30 PRC vs. .300 Win;
30 Nos vs. .300 Wby;
33 Nos vs. .340 Wby and .338 Win.
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Gun manufacturers always push new calipers, to sell more guns. I wish they would concentrate their efforts into making affordable ammo for the guns we already own.
that doesn't make them any money
Since they basically sell every round they produce, they figure it is affordable.
@jk-kr8jt the problem is hornady doesn't sell guns and they can sell 6.5prc for more than they can something like .308
I literally wake up every morning and check to see if you have posted on TH-cam. You are the only sane voice of reason left. Thank you! You are a living legend.
I agree with you
Same here.
Come dude hes awesome we all know that but there are other incredible god fearing men also
Gunblue 490 is another great channel.
Gunblue490 is a great guy to watch also.
OUTSTANDING!!!! Randy just blew ALL the internet experts out of the water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep!! A lot of guys have "sucker" wrote on their back now
Thank you Cathy and Randy. I'm so glad for the TH-cam videos that make his knowledge and wisdom accessible.
You’re exactly right Randy sir. Exactly right.
Thanks again for sharing your experience and insight. It is refreshing to hear someone using common sense and “lives” in the real world.
Blessings to you and Cathy.
Duane
I'm only 40, so I should like be a new 6.5 or 7mm prc type of guy.
But with powders available and growing up with the old school calibers, I gravitate to the 257 mag, 300 wby mag, 7mm rem , good ol 30 06, 300 win mag, 270, 308, just to name a few.
Myself I always wanted a model 700 but I got into the rugar action and I love them. I have 2506 mark 2 a 7mag and a 308. All are very accurate with my hand load ammunition
Love listening to your videos. You don't sugarcoat anything. You say it the way it is. And I love listening to someone who knows what they are talking to. Not someone who is saying something that they don't even know what they are talking about. Keep up the awesome work your doing!!!
It's funny how logic and common sense can piss off so many people.Randy is the voice of logic and common sense when it comes to this stuff.I love it!
My pre 64 model 70 in .264 is mt favorite rifle and caliber!
People should listen to Randy! He KNOWS what he is talking about!
At ethical hunting distances BC means nothing compared to Velocity & SD.
Most hunters have no business taking a shot beyond 300yds, and that's supported with a solid rifle/optic/mount/ammo/shooter combo.
Once you go through some good shoot training with an experienced LR instructor, you can extend your ethical range out some. If you can repeatedly hit a 12" plate from field positions on-demand in short windows of time, then whatever distance that is might be your limit if the conditions are the same.
I've taken people and helped them increase their 1st-round hit probability out to about 500-600yds in reasonable conditions applying LR fundamentals, starting with getting an exact distance with a Laser Range Finder, plugging in your ballistics, setting into a solid position, with a good wind call.
Once the wind starts getting 7mph or more full value, your ethical kill probability decreases at range, so you need to pull it in closer (stalk).
AMEN, Bro!!! Frankly, I had a 7mm Rem. I bot my wife a 270 to have a lighter long range rifle... Hmmm... 2# lighter, 2" shorter... 130 vs 160 grain boolitz, both at 3000... Sold the 7 mm. We started with matched Rem 700's in a 308 for her and a 30-06 for me. Guess what we went back to! Nuff Sed. Oh!! Griz, U say??! Master Bear Guide Phil Shoemaker in Alaska backs up his clients with a 30-06 with 200 Grain Nosler Partitions. Good Enuf!! BTW... A 30-06 spitting 180 gr partitions at 2700+ f/s is still going over 2000 f/s at 400 yards and will expand reliably at that velocity. A 308 will do that at 300 yards, too. Folks, Learn to HUNT! GET within Reasonable Range!! Jerry
Fully agree with you Jerry. But what fun would it be to only play with one or two cartridge/rifle combo? Other than you never second guess the drops, drifts and where the safety is. 😅 Oh, never mind.
Just a FYI, Phil switched to a 458 for backup years ago. But you are correct his old 30-06 finished many giant bears for years.
Cheers, Jeff
The early to mid 1900’s was magical for cartridge development. I haven’t seen anything new that really impresses me. Nothing against the new stuff if that’s what gets you excited about shooting and hunting.
I wonder how many people can actually shoot those high capacity missle launchers? A long time ago I realized that I shoot my 270 win way better than my 300 win mag. Shoot within 300 yards and game doesn’t seem to care.
Thank you Randy, keep up the good work sir.
I'm more of a 7mm fan, but I do own one .264" caliber rifle, a CZ-USA Model 550 American in 6.5x55 Swede. It will meet any need I have for it, but for those who want to use a projectile that is heaver than 140 grains, I can see why they might choose something else.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom, in a world full of crazy terminology’s, it’s great you taking the time to educate others that didn’t have the privilege to find these things out on our own.
Randy hit the nail on the head- change the tiwst rate on a 270 weatherby and it beats a 6.8 western. Yes, but I can buy a 6.8 western off the shelf. Its the ‘turn key’, sorted by factory manufacturer that gives them relevence. No disrespect to this great man
And 6.5 prc has Lapua brass. Living in Sweden that is a brand that is available. And it is a bit better than Norma brass.
@@GreyzonecompliantThe 6.8W is going to have ADG brass this year. I am selling my 6.5PRC is getting sold because my 6.8W easily out performs it. The heavier 277 bullets easily outperform the 6.5 PRC.
I like your information and videos. I’m so tired of the hype of using target bullets on game and “long range hunting”. I mainly hunt the rainforests of the Pacific NW. I see people hefting heavy long range rifles, 20 plus power scopes, hunting Roosevelt elk where a 75 yard shot is long and using poor target bullets. I mainly tote a .270 Winchester, 140 Accubond, and a 3x9 scope. From Montana to Washington, elk to deer…it has served me well, and performs from 10 feet to 400 yards.
I always enjoy hearing your common sense explanations. I have and continue to learn a lot from you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I can understand gunsmiths not liking some of the newer cartridges. However they are designed for factory rifles. I could buy a 6.5PRC with a fast twist and correct chamber for long heavy foe calibre bullets off the shelf. A custom rofle would probably be at least three times the price. That's why they are popular, notbthat they are better but are good enough without breaking the bank.
Exactly!!!!
Great video. You’re a wealth of knowledge and exactly correct!! I own a Winchester M70 .264 WM. I’ve actually had people advise me to get rid of it and upgrade to a 6.5 Creedmoor 🙄. Please keep the new videos coming, I certainly enjoy listening to your common sense and wisdom.
Wow . That's no upgrade. 6.5 CM is only adequate in my opinion for antelope and small whitetail at short ranges. Say out to 200yds or so.
Yep…the 6.5 CM is a fine cartridge, but it’s definitely over-hyped.
@@maxchapman4531 I'd also take a .25-06 (got one) or a .257 Weatherby over a 6.5 as well.
Randy customized a rifle for me 10-12 years ago. And I found out about his TH-cam channel from Desert Dog yesterday.
Thank you DD.
Thank you! Not sure, by the "YT" tag who you are. Welcome to our channel and thanks Desert Dog, also!
Thanks for watching.
@@TheRealGunsmith my name is Andy Goudeau, from Southern CA. You shortened the barrel on my CZ 550, in 375H&H. BTW that rifle shoots Wonderful. I shoot 300gr, Swift A-frames. The rifle has spent over 60 days on 3 trips to Africa. She’s taken from Steenbok to Eland.
CZ’s are very popular in Africa with the PH’s. All the PH’s that saw your handy work, were amazed by how fast the 20.5 inch barrel handles.
Hope All are Well and Safe.
You make quite a few good points, none of which will ever stem the tide of new cartridge development in the least. If you want the interest in rifles and rifle cartridges to die off completely, then yours is the correct way of going about it. If you want to continue to have plenty of customers for custom riflesmiths to build guns for, then be thankful new ( and completely pointless ) cartridges are introduced fairly regularly.
Nosler Partition is my favorite for sure.
Randy, great points. I think if I proceed with a new rifle cartridge in the near future, I'm going to stick with a long action. Definitely a controlled feed action. Caliber and cartridge is the least of my concerns really. The quality of the rifle is most important to me. Fit and function first!
100% they've been creating solutions to non existent problems lol
On the ballistic coefficients your exactly right sir.
Thank you for sharing Mr Selby!
The 6.5wby rpm is the replacement for the 264 win mag
I quit reading gun mags and listening to gun shows when a writer with the initials of T.G. tried to convince me that a 6.5 Creedmoor will out perform a 7mm Rem Mag!
I remember when we were told the 6.8 SPC would outperform the 7.62 NATO. Now it's supposed to be the 277 Fury and 6.8x51. Yawn.
Well I hate to disappoint you I have both rifles spent well over $3,000 on each in the 6.5 will hold tighter groups
@user-ic3pj6og3y he was talking about energy. Gave the example of a 120 grain 7mm round nose vs a 168 grain vld in 6.5, and how the 6.5 would beat the 7mm on energy past 800 yards.
@@user-ic3pj6og3ylol that has nothing to do with it being one caliber or another. Maybe you can’t shoot groups for crap with a magnum round gun combo 🤷
All you hear is people talking about those 700 800 yards shot, BUT, they can’t even group less than 2 or 3 moa at 100 yards, and this is on a cement table with all the support possible. Come on, be realistic.
264 needs a strong comeback maybe rename it the 264 creedmor lol
In my opinion the point of bc is winddrift. It makes wind easier to deal with
Well stated. With better bullet design today, cartridges of old just need a faster twist rate barrel to equal the new playing field.
Most people don't have money for custom rifles so from the store the 6.5 prc and 6.8 western are better for the avg person than a 264mag 270 weatherby that's going to kill your wallet
The Western does, and will probably always suffer from a brass shortage.
Amen to the interlock bullets for hunting. I'm happy for Hornady keeping them on the shelves because I don't care for them eldx bullets for hunting one damn bit because they destroy too much good venison. I done tried the eldx out too, and have seen the results myself.
I just wished I could get some longer bullets for my 25 -06. It would be the only rifle I would reach for in the gun cabinet.
Mauser 98 action. Model 70 Winchester.
Thank goodness I found this guy. One of the few sane voices out there.
Summed up, “it’s the Indian not the arrow…….”
Don't believe the HYPE! 30-06 FTW!
@@madsloper Right on!
Great video, thanks for posting!
We don't always have the same opinion, but I appreciate all the information you share.. there is no substitute real life experience.
I'm a firm believer in using what you have if if it works. I still like my 30-6. It Shoots well, does the job I need to do, and I get sub moa grouping with factory ammo. I guess I got lucky with that. Because it's not a custom or fancy rifle. It's a literal off the shelf Remington.
I like to keep up with the details on new cartridges and I like some of what I see about the seven PRC, but my favorite rifle still works. So I'm not gonna be in a hurry to change it. Maybe I'll get one of these 7 mm in one flavor or another eventually, but if I'm being honest, I don't need it.
I think 6x45 is a solid cartridge for varmints! I'm thinking about getting a barrel for my howa mini action
You are correct , it is a very good coyote round with a 55 to 80 grain bullet . H 335 works well fore reloading . The Hodgdon # 26 manual has loading data for the 6x 45 . I have an AR chambered for this cartridge with a 20 in barrel and is very accurate . I would recommend if using a bolt action to do a 24 in barrel to get max velocity .
I like three-lug layout bolt actions. If it has two rows or three rows of lugs matters not as long as it is divided into three lugs.
I just built a custom rifle in an old cartridge. 35 Whelen. We now can use them for deer here in Iowa. I'm going to take it to Idaho in a couple weeks for bears. I've got several new cartridges. But, I sure do like some of the oldies too.
@TheRealGunsmith thank you I've been trying to tell a shooting friend that. It's marketing by the cartridge manufacturer then they got some barrel manufacturers behind them and guys started putting them together and voila'! 308, 3006, 300 win mag, 270, 243, 556, and all the same calibers in weather by cartridges..... The younger generation calls us fuds but this guy come to find out didn't even know how to properly sight in a rifle a couple years ago and would just aim a little this way or that for each gun he had. I couldn't hit anything with his 556 and my aim has been real good for fifty years
I like my 7mag and my 7 stw ..i own 4 7mags remington 700 bowning a bolt long range CVA long range and a winchester model 70..i like them all..the newer 1's wont shoot the lighter bullets like my older 1's the newer 1's like 160 and above..where my remington and winchester will shoot 140 really well..which i like on white tail
I shoots 7mm rem mag with 168lrx branes in a browning x-bolt with a 1and8 twist I hand loads getting 3250fps and 3/4 inche groups
You are a truly Boss man! Thanks a lot, I´m 100% agrre with you
At some point the whole caliber, load, powder, bullet, etc - just becomes a theoretical exercise - been that way for a long time now. There was never any reason to pursue whitetail deer hunting cartridges past the 3030, 3006 and 308.
I just want to thank you for your important helpful information that is a must to know
You know you are a foundation to the reloading and the gun world !!!!!!! 👍👍👍👍
Sorry I’ve missed so many videos from you I’ve been dealing with cancer the past year and I have very few good days.
I truly hope you can recover my thr Good Lord bless an keep you
@@randlerichardson5826 hang in there, buddy of mine had stage 4 cancer, mouth,throat and neck. He survived and less than a year later, we were cutting and splitting couple cords of firewood a day.
We are really sorry to hear this. Cathy had a rough time with breast cancer, so in a small way, we can empathize. May you find the help and graces you need.
Our advice, that stood her and us both 12 years ago, was to look to all natural help, for as much as you can afford to do.
Since that time, there is Chris Beat Cancer, a cancer survivor who went all holistic, and he interviews other cancer survivors who used all or mostly holistic treatments and makes recommendations on what to do. Send an email to us [see it on the website, listed at the end of each video] and we can offer more recommendations.
Oh, also, Cathy went to Sanoviv, US owned, but in Mexico, as there are treatments available all over the world, used successfully, for cancer treatment, but not all can be sued here. She was there twice, in 2000 for CFS and then in 2014 after cancer treatment [which she ended up refusing the last two treatments, decided she would rather not die of chemo.
God bless.
Just got my second 6.5 prc yesterday. Here's my take on calibers. On Ron Spomer podcast live, I was in the chat. I was talking about the 6.5 prc. The 270 fan boys showed up. One guy couldn't understand that if the bullet weights are the same and the prc is smaller diameter and faster, how is the 270 more powerful? This guy kept saying he wants larger diameter and heavier bullets to do the job. He literally can't understand...the bullet weights are the same! I said to what end. A 300 RUM is more powerful than 270. So today there's if it's not .30 it's not big enough. Then there's the 6.5 creed moor is the only 6.5 crowd and now they realize there's many more. The 270 guys can't understand the 6.5 prc is more potent...by the numbers. My 24 inch bergara is getting 3150 fps with factory 130 grain ammo.
The 6.8W can shoot heavier bullets than the 6.5 PRC.
Truer words . . .
I love hearing this guy wealth of knowledge.
When it comes to hunting ALL North American game you probably could take it down to a dozen calibers and gauges and still have two to three calibers to choose from for each species.
Hi Randy& Cathy. I love your videos!.
best gun talk on youtube ..
It baffles me that weatherby hasn't started pushing either faster twist or gain twist rifling in their rifles to breath new life into their old cartridges
If it ain't broke?
It's because 70% of the people who buy them are satisfied. The other 30% like you and me would love to see them try something new. Unfortunately there are too many folks who are to durn stubborn to see that sometimes something NEW might be better than something 65 years old.
@@adamrodgers2377 gain twist has been used in artillery since the 1800s
@@justahologram2230 yes but we are talking about Shoulder Fired Rifles. Weather by is still stuck in the 80's it would do some good to see them try something new
@@adamrodgers2377 I don't mind the all gas no breaks approach for cartridge design, I'm half expecting them to take the .277 fury concept to make even hotter magnums
I appreciate your time sir.
Not sure why the 300 ultra mag is often overlooked when discussing 30 cal magnums.. why is that?
The 300 has what some call rocket effect and the average shooter soon develops a flinch and cant shoot them well. 300 win mag or ultra mag
It's too much for most boys.
Their not that fun to shoot..lol
300 RUM is an excellent cartridge. Factory ammo is a bit slow. Then Rem came out with their dumb 3 tier power level. Unfortunately all the shops near me stocked the ridiculous 30-06 power level. Heck if I wanted 30-06 velocity, I'll pick up my 30-06.
I've not overlooked it. If not in this video it is mentioned in others.
Thanks for watching.
The name Randy means shield wolf or fierce protector.
The .284 projectile is the king from way back !
We already have the best of the best. My favorite. Is 06ai
Randy, thank you for your series! All these fancy new calibers are still not a good as the original calibers. The problem with the new caliber and rifles are the money markets , the power of the dollar !
264 win and 270 wby are great cartridges. But so are the 6.8 Western and 6.5 PRC. They’re just more modern, and efficient cartridges. The old ones are great, the new ones are too. No reason to pick a team.
Go back and and listen to the video again !…..
@@thomasdaum1927 why?
@@hopefulballistics Well he explains how the older cartridges are as good as the new ones and sometimes better , maybe you missed it !……
@@thomasdaum1927 I don’t doubt that they are. But that doesn’t mean the new ones aren’t unique or have different benefits.
@@hopefulballistics Unique and different doesn’t mean better . I don’t see how a 7 prc preforms better than a 7 Ultra or a 7 REM Ultra mag !….. All these new cartridges are just to sell new rifles !……
I like my 300SAUM on a Model Seven. It’s very short and I reload. It’s hell with a 150 grain class bullet
They are trying to sell guns. Common sense not so much. Thanks Randy
All these new cartridges are just about selling new rifles Period !……
And what is wrong with Capitalism? Plus a lot of these new Cartridges WILL be around for a long time. It's the same reason we aren't driving Model T's
@@adamrodgers2377 Nothing wrong with capitalism and I would hardly call a 300 WBY ( 75+ years old ) a model T ! All I a saying is most if not all of these new cartridges are not needed and were developed just to sell new rifles . Period !……..
@@adamrodgers2377 oh now you have nothing to say !…….
Spot on!!! Manufacturers are missing the boat by failing to tighten up twist rates for legacy calibers. For example, there are a couple of manufacturers selling 308Win rifles with 1 in 11.25 twist rates....Why? It makes ZERO sense in a bolt action when most people use 168 grain and up.
When the .308 W took over at Perry it was determined that the 1 in 11" twist was about perfect for the 168-grain SMK out to 600 yards.
11.25 is idea for 168, so that is why.
Thanks for watching.
I don’t remember any of the elk I’ve taken taking time to calculate energy before falling dead to my 270 featherweight
Good job well said. You rock. Never stop.
Yep, 'Shiny ball' cartridge syndrome.
Last point of topic was dead on as well.
I notice you talk alot about the big 7mms but haven't ever really heard you talk about the 7mm ultra mag... Would like to hear your thoughts on that cartridge compared to the other big 7s big fan and thank you for sharing all your knowledge
Better BC improves wind deflection?
@@cabochris100 also retains more velocity and energy.
I had a very rare introduction into shooting, ballistics, reloading etc... my Capt. had a degree in engineering... he once told me that the German engineers had decided that the 7mm bore was the optimal diameter for engaging man-sized targets on a battlefield... not since that engineering grad/shooter/reloader have I encountered such a wealth of knowledge regarding ballistics as our host... wanna be informed and educated ? Subscribe...
You are dead on sir!
another great vid. thank you both
Hi Mr and Mrs Selby, I love your videos and your thoughts, as such I’m wondering how you feel about Wyoming’s wolf season? Is it sufficient or is it too conservative?
Who said there's anything wrong with 264 win mag? The 6.5 PRC advantage is very simply the higher BC bullet , period
270 does nearly everything 6.5 prc will do until we get to accuracy potential. Case design matters. Weatherby case design is sub par for consistent powder burn. There is a reason bench rest shooters have been shooting sharp shoulder, high capacity, fat cases for years.
Even at relatively close ranges (200-300 yards) under real hunting conditions inches matter.
You shooting prarie dogs??? LOL
Interested in more comments on 340. I agree about some F&G.....Arizona a will sell tags on areas of public land where ranchers have closed the land to hunters except for outfitters who pay ranchers. The ranchers hold cattle grazing lease. They lock the gates and threaten you if you attempt to hunt. We have repeatedly brought this to the attention of Arizona Fish and Game, but they never respond. At public meetings, they say it's up to some other agency to handle this. I quite giving them money.
These new high BC cartridges do have wind bucking and less drop at distance advantages. Yes a custom rifle maker can create a rifle to achieve this but the fact that we can buy a ‘turn key’ rifle off the shelf that achieves this. I understand high BC has little to no advantage to most hunting at ethical ranges…
Always enjoy your info
Howa builds the 6.5 PRC properly in a long action receiver. Also Ruger American and Tikka are long actions. There are no fast twist production .264 Win Mag.
Didn't he just upgrade the 270 weartherby to a modern cartridge and what ever rifle to a upgraded rifle!
BC is an artillery concept, it matters over miles.
I designed the 300 SGR many years ago before Nosler standardized it as the 30 Nosler. The whole point of the cartridge wasn't to compete with the 300 Weatherby but instead create a cartridge similar to the 300 Dakota that would fit in a standard magnum action and perform on par with the 300 Weatherly and the 300 Dakota. In my testing it has fit the bill quite nicely equal in performance to those two very capable cartridges and gave up very little to the 300 RUM and I could make brass for it and not pay an astronomical price.
I put it in a standard length action to shorten up the rifle and lose a little bit of weight. Hunting mostly in the Appalachian mountains we cannot use a horse for hunting like you do in the West. You still have some freedoms we don't. Besides if you're going to put it in magnum action just go ahead with the 300 Remington ultra mag. because there would be no advantages to a smaller cartridge if you gotta tote that big magnum rifle.
The whole point of the design was to get 300 Weatherby/ Dakota performance and almost 300RUM performance out of a 30-06, 300WIN mag size and weight rifle.
The performance of the 300SGR will best all of them with a 180gr Accubond and a 24" barrel with the RL-26 powder except for the 300/378 Weatherby which still has a 92-93fps advantage, will an elk know the difference? A whitetail sure doesn't.
The 300SGR has 1 1/2 - 2 grain h2o powder capacity advantage over the 300 Weatherby and with the shorter fatter case and reloader 26 it has about a 30fps advantage in velocity. A shorter lighter rifle and no high priced brass. What's not to love?
If I had a horse to tote my rifle I would have made it bigger not smaller.
The 300 SGR/ 30 Nosler may not be for everyone but it has a place for people who hunt on foot in the mountains and want big 30 caliber performance.
180gr Accubond
24" rifle
300 SGR - 3200fps. RL-26 has given it a boost
300RUM - 3148fps
300 Weath - 3171fps
300 Dakota - 3102fps
300/378 Weath - 3292fps burning 15 more grains
of powder.
I agree with most everything your talking about but your not comparing apples to apples on some of these cartridges. The 270x300 wby, 7mmx300 wby…I mean those have to be thrown in the wildcat category because you can’t just go buy those over the counter and there damn sure ain’t a gun on the shelf that’s gonna be chambered in any of those.i love my STW but it will not shoot with my 28 velocity wise. Its close but the 28 wins every time.
I would think you would be excited about anything new coming. It means the market is healthy even when the 2A market is under attack more than ever.
I will stick with my 6.5x284 Norma
7.62x25 Tok. 110 grain M1 carbine bullet SP or Fmj. Every type actions😮❤
You make good points, but I think people are trying to get away from belted cartridges. Nothing you said was inaccurate regarding velocities and such. I have a 28 Nosler and I strongly agree it should have been in a magnum action.
Great show .
This man will forget more than I will know. With that said his mind is set. His angle is old-school.
Maybe he's not paying attention to the current market.
No young whippersnapper is going to buy a 300 weathered mag Ackley Anything!
I'd like to see a 170 grain 7mm terminal assent bullet made again
👍🏻👍🏻
Ill keep my model 70 30'06 until I finally replace it with a lazer. Preferably mounted to my head 😂
Agreed!
Just give a me a 30-06.