Type O Negative: The Rise & Fall of the Band, Death of Peter Steele
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- The Rise and Fall of Type O Negative and death of Peter Steele
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#typeonegative #petersteele
I cite my sources and they may differ than other people's accounts, so I don't guarantee the actual accuracy of my videos.
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This is truly one of the few bands which doesn't really have any peers. They sounded so unlike all other bands that they're basically a genre by themselves.
Good comment!!
It's hard to describe their sound without leaving some element out. The way they could inject sarcasm and dark humor into their music is unparalleled and added so much to the experience.
Totally. Like Tool or SOAD. Love them or hate them, they ARE their sound.
true
Paradise lost and My dying bride def have some TON vibes, but Type certainly had their own style
One of the most iconic, unique sounding bands I had fortune of discovering in my late teens and watch them grow and gain some traction, till the sad end.. 😢 RIP Peter.
Peter would have wanted you to say "Misfortune of discovering". 😃
I only heard a few tracks and didn't like them. Got any recommendations I'll give it a go!
@@RighteousBrother ooh, Everyone talks about Bloody Kisses and don’t get me wrong it is an amazing album, but October Rust and World Coming Down are great! Oozing with moods and emotions, much like settling into a good Cure track or album! Peter, like Robert Smith, knows/knew how to set a mood and just take you along for the ride.
@@GiggityinFreddy thanks friend. I'll give them a go!
@@RighteousBrother cheers dude! You won’t regret it. No other band sounds like them.
I feel so badly for Peter because you know he was an empath and couldn't turn it off. When you're that massive, imposing, and beautiful people assume you're a winner-takes-all egomaniac but he just wanted to be Loved. At the very least he will be Remembered.
Exactly! Still it blows my mind that he wasn’t lucky with girls.. like what?! WHAT?!🥴🤣
@@cotevallejos7230It’s something we will never understand… lol.
At first, Peter went along with the whole "getting girls" thing, at least as far as television appearances went. His appearance on Jerry Springer is iconic. Lol. After October Rust though, things definitely started to fall apart for him and the band, albeit very slowly. Very sad how singers like he and Prince died the way they did. *RIP 🖤💚💜*
As an empath, we have to learn how to "turn it off" or protect ourselves. Peter Steele was a survivor. He was strong, and maybe too good for this world.
@@SkyePhoenix i think he wasn’t able to, which i relate to exactly. just too damn sensitive
I discovered Type O Negative in Dec. 2022 at the ripe old age of 53. What a great band. October Rust in particular is a masterpiece.
I heard them b4...but wasnt i to them until the HowardStern interview/singing
I discovered them later on in life too!! ❤
I saw a Peter Steel "short reel" on FB recently, where he was interviewed by Jerry Springer. I've been a massive Goth fan since the 80s, Sisters of Mercy, The Mission...
Had heard of these before but never checked them out sooner. I wish I had!! By the way, I'm 57. Never too late/old to get into new bands 😊
@@sue5488- There's a longer clip of that here on TH-cam if you haven't seen it yet.
@@motorheadforlife9431 I'd like to see that 🙂
October Rust is a magical, atmospheric, powerhouse of an album. Love You to Death is beyond words.
Definitely my most favorite album by them.
My wife secretly had the DJ play Love You To Death at our wedding. Awesome memory.
Agreed, it has the full range of human emotion and experience. My favorite album of all time
Damn straight. One of the greatest albums I have ever heard. 100s of listens and it keeps getting better.
Wolf Moon is one of my favorite songs ever written, so damn good, yet so damn funny and that was Type O. They'll never be another one like them.
Steele’s voice is so amazing. That low deep voice with the music always reminds me of halloween. “Its all hallow’s eve, the moon is full.”
I got to meet Peter at a convention he was playing maybe a few months before he died. Was so surreal, dude towered over every booth and attraction and the whole crowd.
@AlbertaStrength he made hiss bass look like a toy. Rip you legendary giant.
Superrb. None of that's true though is it?
They don't make them like that anymore :(
@@horzathirteen It is but ok? Dont think he did horror conventions? He specifically loved those, then headlined after.
@@nwerd7584 Sorry mate. Was really just a very unnecessary and obnoxious late night comment by me after a few beers and reading a lot of very fanciful tales in the comments section. Glad you had the experience.
One of the things that made the Drab Four stand out from most other bands is that their covers of other artists' songs all sounded like original TON material rather than just being lazy copies. Their versions of Hey Joe, Paranoid, Black Sabbath, Summer Breeze, Cinnamon Girl, Light My Fire etc. are all masterpieces in my book.
Their Day Tripper Beatles medley is one of my favorites, and I can't stand the Beatles haha
Their Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath cover is the best cover of all time (in my opinion).
@@cloudbloom I was looking for someone to mention that cover! It’s amazing! I loved their spin on it. I’m a huge Beatles fan and a huge TON fan. I know a lot of people who will listen to one or the other but refuse to expose themselves to all music. And I believe that is one of the things that makes for a great band. Even if you don’t want to play “covers”, listening to different types of artists gives you a broader spectrum for experimentation. That’s why some bands go stale. Sorry, I rambled there. Hahaha!
@@Evil-Never-Dies I suppose you mean their Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath cover (band, album, song) ;o)
...and yes, it is fucking EPIC.
@@GoldfingerXXX 🤘
Type O Negative did not rise and fall.
Type O Negative arose upon the scene and left an unparalleled musical legacy to which every single band within their specific genre owes their existence.
**R.I.P. PETER STEELE 🪦**
I've been listening to ToN for 23 years now, which is crazy to even think. I'm 37 years old. I remember coming home from work and my best friend telling me about Peter's death. It crushed me mentally. I cried for days, because ToN's music has saved my own life, but then I realized that I should appreciate what they've already put out. Still, (or Steele ^^) you're so missed Green Man
💚🖤
BLACK BLACK BLACK BLACK
NUMBER ONE....(Just like your last name)
Damn … you look FKN GOOD at 37!!
I've lstened to them for almost 30 years now... holy f*** I'm old 😝
Their music also saved my life.
reminds me of one of the greatest lines i have heard in my life " The pitch of Peter Steele's voice is lower than my self-esteem. "
as a new yorker all i can do is be thankful how awesome they made my late teens.
Yo Brooklyn
@ShadowAmongstTheMasses A dying Godman full of pain...👌
What yall missed is that Steele converted back to Catholicism towards the end of his life, he talked about his faith in an unreleased interview, his story did not have a tragic ending for that reason, may he be in the presence of Christ
Riposi in pace 🙏❤
I'll never forget when Peter was on an episode of Jerry Springer in '95 titled "Sexy groupie girls tell all" lol, it was one of the most rockstar things I've ever seen. 🤘
I remember I saw that in its original broadcast. It is a must watch!
When I worked at concerts, I met just about everyone and Peter Steele was one of the nicest people. I loved their music! RIP Peter!
Never clicked on a video this fast! RIP Peter Steele
"Everything dies...."
Missing you still after 12 years Pete, still feels like you left just yesterday. you know there's a great band in Heaven.
I viewed them as a novelty when they first hit the scene and was reminded of them by an article in a guitar magazine about Life is Killing Me. I really discovered their depth and have been a listener since. I threw on Dead Again while handing out Halloween candy this year haha - perfect! Love the last two albums musically and lyrically - worth a listen if you haven't.
i always have world coming down playing on hallows' eve! i even have a creepy green light for my doorway!
First time I’ve seen Bloody Kisses with two kittens on the cover instead of the two girls.
Peter Steele was a true artist. He did music his way with no apologies 💀. He is greatly missed
I regret never getting to see them live. Bloody Kisses, October Rust, and World Coming Down are peak Type O and must listens for anyone. RIP Green Man.
Saw them during their October Rust tour... definitely one of my favorite shows that I've seen in my time 🤟
My first album of them was World Coming Down. I was in a dark place myself and the album made me feel less one on one with my feelings. RIP Peter and thanks for everything.
Great band! Saw them twice and they were amazing live. I was right up front for the show when they opened for Coal Chamber. Between songs, the stage would fade to black and they had a big McDonald's sign lit. I think half the people there didn't know, or understand them.
Loved the Black Sabbath covers. I always thought they were one of the very few bands that could cover Sabbath and really pull it off.
Peter was such a funny guy too, at least on stage. When I heard about his passing, I literally did not believe it for about a week. I really thought it was a hoax. RIP
I'm always gutted by the fact I missed their concert at the Astoria in London, 1996, was so sick that I really couldn't go, gave my ticket to a friend. Feel like I missed a band in it's prime.
@@brainmolko Same thing happened to me with Marilyn Manson on the Antichrist Superstar tour. I couldn't make it and all I heard about for months from my friends was, "Man, you should have went to see Manson."
@@scottbubb2946 "Man, you should have went to see Manson"
@@blacksunshine7485 😂
Peter had faked his death during his jail/rehab/psychiatric stay, so yeah, it took seeing it on a few news sources for me to believe he was gone.
Oh man, this brings up sweet memories... throughout my mid 90s teenage years I was completely and utterly OBSESSED with Type O Negative. I started listening to them in '94 when they had just released that absolute banger of an album called Bloody Kisses; and when they finally announced their third album October Rust, I literally counted the days leading up to the release... I've never been so goddamn stoked for an album release in my entire life, lol! It didn't dissapoint, to say the least. 😁- I felt kind of lukewarm about World Coming Down tbh... you could hear that they started getting tired at that point; it just didn't have that fresh spark anymore. But one thing's for sure, I will always be fond of their early stuff!
I remember being fooled by Bad Ground on October Rust. Pete had a great sense of humour.
That's funny cz That's my fave
I last saw them at Ozzfest. Peter was singing and Marilyn Manson came out and jumped on his back.
Peter was walking around piggybacking Marilyn as they both sang together, it was fantastic.
Wow never knew they crossed paths. I could see how they got along lol
Pete is probably the most unreplaceable front man there could be
Im not the fan of metal but Type O Negative is something else. It hits differently, really unique sound and distinctive songs and the Peters voice and the presence. great songwriting...love it.
I love Type O. Easily in my top 10 favorite bands
I saw them a couple of times and actually met him when they were here opening for Motley Crue. I hate Motley Crue, but I was there for Type O. He was just wandering around before they played largely unnoticed. He was really nice and friendly.
Their music always found a way to really hit the mark. Anesthesia off Life is killing me still hits. RIP Peter
Their cover of "Summer Breeze" is awesome on Kisses album. :-) I liked his voice and to me their was no one who sounded like them.
Search for "Summer Girl" if you havent heard it. It's the same cover but different lyrics. I personally like it better.
@@KillSwitchNY Yeah... too bad that Seals & Crofts dissaproved of Peter's raunchy lyrics 😁
@Ricky F I think they were just worried it would have overshadowed their original lol.
“Unsuccessfully Coping…” is an incredible track.
Lmao "we may suck,but it's not blood" I miss Peter.R.i.p🤘😎👍
This is one I have requested a couple of times.
Peter is one of the few celebrities who's passing effected me. He seems like such a great guy, down to earth and full of wisdom and humor.
Even with the harsh reality of some of their records, the music was still amazing. Type O is an incredibly raw, and talented band. I praise it all. 💚
My favorite band of all time. Thanks for making a video on them, the Casket Crew lives on even if the green man has passed🙏
The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long.
really appreciate the fact you credit the pics you use, havent seen anyone take the time to do that
Fair to say there was no fall. There was just an end.
R.I.P Pete 🖤
I love Type O. LOVE THEM. Peter Steele was amazing. Their sound was awesome. I will forever listen to them. Pete was so funny! His interviews are bonkers. He was goofy and witty and clever. I think he gave off this whole “serious vampire” mood but he really didn’t take himself too seriously and I would have loved to just sat down and talked with him. The interviews of the band together make me laugh so hard! I wanted to go see them when I was around 16. My cousin worked for a radio station and he got 4 tickets including backstage passes. My dad would never ever stop me from experiencing live music. But I had a massive poster of Peter on my bedroom wall. My dad said “absolutely not. You’re not going to that concert. And absolutely not going backstage.” I would have 💯 ran away with him forever. 😂 “Anesthesia” is one of my favorite songs of all time.
One of the best bands to see live, met Pete many times over the years, such a nice guy, 'World Coming Down' is in my top 10 albums, luckily I got to see them one last time before Pete died (Bogarts, Cincinnati, Ohio, the second to last show they ever died before Steele passed, Josh was at paramedic school, so unfortunately, he was not present), seeing the entire venue along with all of the other bands on the bill sing Black No.1 was incredible, it was by far the best performance they ever gave in my experience, I don't think people realize to this day how many bands TON influenced or how technical those guys were, such a shame they are longer a thing and Pete is no longer with us.
It's like Pantera man.. they were meant to leave their mark in music and it's music history. they "type O" and so many others are still very important for music. it's inspiration! and music is powerful! it heals some people.. if you let it. it's used for many things.
October Rust is a masterpiece of musicianship. Tossing the first 2 tracks (for being comedic relief), this album is one of the few that requires no skipping, nor searching for a good song. I bought it the day it came out, and I still listen to it on the regular. Thank you, Drab Four, for this magnum opus.
R.I.P. Peter.
Pretty sure ‘Origin’ was a studio album, not a live album; the hostile crowd reaction was added as a joke
You are correct.
A joke the record company wasn't too happy about. "You suck! You suck!" 😆
r
@The Progressing Drummer - spot on -
Ha - I had it on 1.5 and heard it as 'faux-live' album, but on reply not.
And that's not the only thing this guy got wrong in this video...
October Rust is an absolute banger of an album. Great song after great song after great song. I remember immediately buying it after hearing My Girlfriend's Girlfriend on Q101 shortly after its release.
A friend introduced me to ToN when Bloody Kisses came out. He'd already introduced me to The Black Crowes and Marilyn Manson, but ToN blew me away. When October Rust came out, that album and Peter Steele became my muses. I wrote some of my best dark, gothic-like poetry during that time. I still listen to it whenever I am in a darkling mood to inspire poetry and short stories. RIP Peter, my eternal muse.
Still listen to them regularly 🤘always will.
I’ll always love this band & Peter Steele was a really unique person - he looked like some kind of Nordic deity & such a great voice! A boyfriend of mine in the 90s introduced me to their music - those were great times, just hanging out, driving around listening to awesome rock bands 😎❤️🎶 I truly miss those days! I know how hard depression is having had battles with it my whole life & it still hurts that Pete struggled so much - he was very appreciated & missed! 💖
I remember Peter's 2010 demise. What REALLY sucked was the fact that Dio checked out only a month later...!
My cousin used to beg me to listen to them in 93. Instead, I only gave them any attention after Peter's death. I wish I just listened to my cousin.
Lol yeah, when I first heard their music at around the same time, I thought "uh, okay, that is some weird ass shit..." - Took me repeated listening until I got absolutely f***ing addicted to it. 😁
ToN was a genre of their very own. Peter was not afraid to bear his soul. Such an underrated band in my opinion. 💚🍂🕯🥀
I was lucky enough to see Type O 13 times. I saw them in CT, NY, Mass, and RI. I saw Carnivore when they had the reunion. When Pete died I mourned. Pete was the only musician I have ever mourned over. I knew a bouncer at Toads place in New Haven in CT. When Type O played there he got me in to meet Pete. I will never forget that. RIP Pete. The loss of his creative genius is a tragedy.
Peter Steele RIP Goliath.Truly a behemoth of a front man.
carnivore makes me want to fight everyone, and everything, one of the best bands ever.
In my top 5 band list. Huge influence on my song writing and vocals.
Got to see them in 1995 with Pantera. RIP to Peter.
I’ve been wanting a recreation of Type O in some form ever since they’ve disbanded. Fortunately, back in ‘17, a new band came out called October Noir that replicates the closest sound to Type O. I highly recommend checking them out. Kenny’s band SilverTomb is also pretty good too, more of a doom metal sound though as opposed to the goth metal sound
None More Negative!!!!
A gentle Giant and a God among men. Peter Steele paved the way, and created a beautifully executed genere of music, and the industry is nothing without him. Every song he created is unique in his personaity and personal life; to this day his voice is the only one I can play all day every day and never get tired of his melodies. I've met his friends, and they spoke nothing but kind words. A beautiful man and soul taken too soon. RIP Petrus, you are sorely missed.
Whenever I'm feeling down.. or even pissed off.. just put on summer breeze! or "we hate everyone" badass jam..
Sal Abruscato played drums on Bloody Kisses.......
Exactly
Technically,.. nobody played drums on Bloody Kisses,.. or any of the following ones until Dead Again. They used a drum machine in studio,.... and I really wish I could learn more about which one,.. or if they were samples. The drums sounded phenomenal and would love to have some high quality samples to play with
@@visisydandthevoid Are you shitting me? No way that's a freaking drum machine on those albums... where on earth did you get that from?
TM - I'ma 65 yo Granny that loves type o! I was a RN/ paramedic since 84. I have mad respect for Josh! He has such a kind face and eyes, love his shaven look. Blessings to you from Texas.
A great band. I got to see them live once during the Bloody Kisses tour; Motley Crue was on the bill. It was August in Texas and about halfway through the set, Peter walked up to the Mic and said, "I can't believe I took a shower for this." RIP, Pete.
Oh Peter, the world is not the same without you. You truly were one of a kind.
Peter is just such a sad story. But thankfully we are blessed to have his amazing work live on. Type O is one of the greatest underrated projects ever. Peter was a true artist and brilliant composer. RIP green man💚💚💚💚💚💚💚
October rust is their OK Computer
Peter Steele was one of a Kind R.I.P
I say again--
The MOST underrated band in history
ToN/Carnivore was the only band I felt I truly related to. All the tongue-in-cheek, cynicism, schizophrenia, angst, depression, longing, lusting, self-loathing, intolerance, and self-medication. Going from thrash-punk blasts of double kick to funeral march tempos with that warm fuzzy bass droning. Kenny starting every song with whailing feeback, and Josh adding the special touch to keep everything atmospheric. Trade offs between the Green Man and Wolf Boy on the vocals. There we nights where I thought Id lose my mind, if the Glass Walls of Limbo didnt reel me back. You are so missed.
Sal Abruscato was Type O's original drummer, not Johnny Kelly. Sal left after Bloody Kisses and was replaced by Johnny Kelly during the October Rust album cycle who then became the band's permanent drummer. Sheesh, guy!
I love the "public safe" cover of bloody kisses lmfao 🤣
Type o negative!!!!!!! R.I.P Peter Steele
One of the best bands to come out of the 90s. R.I.P Peter.
@Talena Likewise, not sure who your profiler is but she's nice all the same.
My favorite band. RIP Peter Steele. I saw them live in Chicago November 7 2000, met Johnny and Peter, got pics and they signed my ticket. One of the best nights ever.
Was that show at the Vic theater? If so I was there too . I think it was sold out .
@@Stufftowatch21 House of Blues, and it probably was, the place was packed and I got there at like 4 or 5 in the afternoon so I could be right front and center, and I was😁. I got pushed pretty hard against the barrier, there was this awesome super tall guy behind me that held on to the barrier, his hands on both sides of me, that basically kept me from getting squished most of the concert. Especially during black no 1, the crowd was going nuts.
@@lw3764 I can't remember if it was the HOB or Vic show where I caught Pete's wine bottle, good f'n times. Wonder if I was the tall guy, I'm 6'5" and I've done that a few times at concerts, got to protect the shorties! They still are and will always be one of my favorite bands.
@@CFH50 if you were right down front you might've been that guy! 😆 I remember Pete flung the dregs of his wine bottle at the audience that night and some of it hit me.
@@lw3764 Yeah, it was so long ago who knows. I do remember Pete used to fling the wine like he was baptizing the crowd, it was hilarious!
World Coming Down saw me through some dark years where my life was on ice. Nothing changed. Just a weird pause of two years where I would listen to this album and watch the moon.
I felt an affinity with the bleak humour and intelligence of Pete's writing but I'm glad the crush subsided. I guess I would have drank myself to death a lot faster had I met a man like him. It's slower now. 💙
Peter Steele is a God. No man I've ever heard could quite sing rock and metal like he could. *RIP Green Man. 🖤💚*
I loved them. I was so excited when they came to my town! Not too many people understood how awesome they were! They just stood there in shock. lol. But it was an amazing concert. They sounded just like they did on their cd!
Always a fan!
RIP Pete.
What a stupid title for your video but I still enjoyed watching it. Type O Negative fell. More like we the fans fell when Peter Steele passed away. Nobody will ever sound or play like Type O Negative again. He was a God.
I was fortunite enough to see Type O live at Harpo's in Detroit, what a great night. Loved Peter's sense of humor and his music is so underrated. Thank you so much for making this video. Cheers.
The first time Type O played in my area, Albany, NY they played at the South Troy Community Center...lol...the next time they came upstate they played at an actual club. I believe it was 1993 or '94 and I met Peter that night. He politely said hello and shook my hand. I was dumbfounded and I don't think I said anything more than thank you. He was so intimidating because of his size!!! Unfortunately for me because I had a HUGE crush on him, he met my best friend and was smitten...she shook his hand too, but he leaned in and gave her a kiss...lucky bitch!!! I was crushed...
This just made me laugh, sorry about your luck.
That's brutal.
Type O never fell, or even plateued. Dead Again is a brutal dark poetic masterpiece
This band and LOA all got me through those HARRRDDD deep and dark depression teen years.
TON, LOA & Biohazard I link all together! My BFF introduced them all to me.
Along with Agnostic Front, Orange 9mm and Dog eat Dog
2:48 correction this was a fake live recording the hostile crowd was just added humor
These guys were so awesome in concert back in the 90s 🤘
Their cover of "Summer Breeze" is fucking amazing! 🤘
Peters voice reaches parts of my inner body and soul i have never realised a voice could reach..Deep Deep manly tones to mid/higher sensual romantic week at the knees tones
Never will be another
❤❤❤❤❤
still miss Peter Steele, man i miss him
Still my favorite band. RIP
Great band with so many amazing tunes. Peter seemed like a great guy, and had one of the most iconic voices in all of metal.
I got to meet Peter Steele and the members of Type O Negative at a 'record store meet & greet' (remember those??? -ha) back in Jan 1997 on the October Rust tour in Peoria, IL. Type O Negative was already a favorite band of mine but I was so young (14 years old) that my parents wouldn't let me go to the show the following night w/Drain STH and Sister Machine Gun. My mom was cool enough to let me, my younger brother, and my friend Todd go to the meet & greet to get our cds signed (Todd even brought a hand-held tape recorder and asked each member a random stupid question)...that tape has since been lost unfortunately (the house where it was stored was condemned and torn down -haha).
Type O Negative will always be a one of the greatest to me and has influenced my own recording projects over the years...if anyone is interested, look up Somnolence 'Reverence' ('As Midgard Weeps' 2008 album) or Remnants of Industry 'The Last Of Autumn's Leaves' (2022) on TH-cam. -Devon
I was actually in Peter's Apartments here in Scranton the morning after he passed away. Apparently his cat was sick and he didn't want to go to the hospital because of this which led to his departure and the cat was still in the freezer the next day was very surprised at how small his place was and kind of blew my mind to have his Jeep parked in front of my house for a while.
The cat was "still in the freezer"?
@@aurorakarabua-stysiak6233 Thats the part that threw me
Miss Type O Negative…
I got October Rust when it came out in 96. I was hooked. His death is a HUGE loss. Peter's voice, lyrics, and bass tone were one of a kind.
Love Type O! Also, their logo was so simple: An o with a minus sign in the center!
I was at work (3rd shift) when I got the call about Peterov!
I was "Noooooo!!! Did he finally do it? Oh man!" Thinking hed took his own life.
Went that day and over withdrew my account for a handle of Gilby's Gin.
Had to drink and rock TON that day.
All alone in my apartment
I remember seeing ToN alongside The Misfits and Megadeth on a Halloween night back in the 90's. I had not heard of the band at that time, but I became a fan in that instant. They uniqueness of that outfit, from the creepy green motif to the melodic yet heavy sounding tunes, then of course there was Peter's vocals, it was a fresh flavor to me and one that never got old. For those of you reading this who haven't heard Denis Pauna yet, go check out his channel. He has been keeping that unique ToN sound alive in very untraditional but astounding ways. If you close your eyes, it's like you're listening to a new Type O song.
I just got into TON in the last couple years but they have become one of my absolute favorite bands of all time
I just looked up the lead singer I just found this group a few weeks ago
I love them. Now I see he is dead. Wtf. I’m literally in tears right now. I wanted to see them play. Hoping too. I know they had a lot of music years ago but I found September Sun and had some hope. Well I guess not 😢
There was no rise and fall. It was rising until Peter's death.
A fucking chain guitar-strap.
One of my favorite live acts. I took every opportunity to see them when they came around.
A Coworker introduced me to TO- last Halloween, and I was legitimately upset that I didn't hear about them sooner.