Really enjoy your videos. No corny thumbnails, no sensationalism in how you present your content, plain useful and concise information on a reasoned basis.
Rene Rebe (The developper of T2 SDE Linux) recently patched back the scrollback buffer feature. so you can use his patches or install his T2 Linux to get the feature back. I think he deserves a shout-out, T2 is so underrated, it always fixes all the wrong stuff upstream and it's a minimal distro that supports all CPU architectures, yet it doesn't get any credits
That's cool that T2 SDE Linux has scrollback patched into their distro. I think Rene Rebe did a Brodie Robertson Tech Over Tea some months ago. Very cool. Thanks for highlighting them.
@JamesChampionLinux Oh yeah he did. he also has his own channels where he livestreams himself testing support for old architectures, maintaining packages, and bringing back important features and old drivers. he also vents a lot. his channels are @renerebe and @morerenerebe, respectively "code therapy" and "bits inside", you might enjoy his stuff
@@JamesChampionLinux that's him yeah, he also has his own channels. he livestreams himself developing and venting. his channels are @renerebe (bits inside) and @morerenerebe (code therapy)
I do a lot of server work, it's usually over ssh. But when I find myself working on TTY (either directly on a machine, or connected to a VM), I use tmux. It's really the only way I see myself doing any kind of complex work in TTYs. You get copy/paste, scrollback, etc. Tmux is also good in graphical environments; I use it all the time for all my tasks
vim have a support for a terminal in its windows, the command is ':ter'. Press Ctrl-W N to go into normal vim command mode, effectivly doing a snapshot of the terminal output which allows you to work with it like with a regular text buffer.
I KNEW that there used to be scrollback in the tty, but a few years ago I tried and it didn't work and I couldn't find anything and thought I was going crazy. Using tee is a pretty genius solution although I have gotten used to just piping everything into less or using screen or emacs ansiterm, but it can be inconvenient having to run a command twice in the case of just using less the normal way. Most importantly it would be nice to have a log of things for when something inevitably goes wrong. Although in that case I would prefer if it recorded stdin as well, but beggars can't be choosers I guess.
I remember my graphical environment wasn't working and I wanted to check errors in tty, and the command would just output everything into terminal for you to scroll through it, but I couldn't scroll, because someone decided it was redundant in tty.
I don't believe less works with streams. I believe it takes a snapshot of the standard output at the time the less command is ran which might be executed before the previous command is completed.
@@ImperiumLibertas it does work with streams. It will store it in ram as it comes in. When you press the end key it will wait until it receives the EOF and then scroll there
@@ImperiumLibertas Pipes don't drop data when written to, they get buffered in kernel-space. The only relevant file descriptors here are 0 and 1, output process writes data to 1 and less reads from 0. When piping, the shell sets up the two pipe ends, forks two child processes, and in each one of them it closes the real stdio descriptors and uses dup2() to replace them with the pipe ends. The processes begin executing the desired program and are waited for or exited by SIGINT.
Aren't you concerned this TEE'd /tmp/scrollback file will grow as it stores your tty text? I think there must be a way to limit max # of lines for so many lines and then just deletes and appends new lines.
Good point. I've not worried about it, yet. I usually only do this if I know I'm going to need to use it at the time. I'll try to explore this further in another video in the future. Thanks.
"Nobody cares about maintaining..." No, it's just a lot less people who willing to spent time fixing that issue want to go through the bureucracy of commiting something into Linux codebase instead of Linux codebase activly trying to pull nice stuff off the Internet into itself. Game developers, who have and even those who don't have modding support, do that.
I would like to know if system admins miss this feature, or do they only care about automated logging. I usually on do this if I know that I'm going to need it at the time.
As usual enjoyable content. Doing my bit for the algorithm. On your next live stream could you perhaps elaborate what your goals with the channel is? Just the first milestone. So we know when we can return to the back of class. When would you consider the ball rolling to make it worth your time.
Really enjoy your videos. No corny thumbnails, no sensationalism in how you present your content, plain useful and concise information on a reasoned basis.
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. I'm pleased that you like my style. :)
Rene Rebe (The developper of T2 SDE Linux) recently patched back the scrollback buffer feature. so you can use his patches or install his T2 Linux to get the feature back. I think he deserves a shout-out, T2 is so underrated, it always fixes all the wrong stuff upstream and it's a minimal distro that supports all CPU architectures, yet it doesn't get any credits
That's cool that T2 SDE Linux has scrollback patched into their distro. I think Rene Rebe did a Brodie Robertson Tech Over Tea some months ago. Very cool. Thanks for highlighting them.
@JamesChampionLinux Oh yeah he did. he also has his own channels where he livestreams himself testing support for old architectures, maintaining packages, and bringing back important features and old drivers. he also vents a lot. his channels are @renerebe and @morerenerebe, respectively "code therapy" and "bits inside", you might enjoy his stuff
@@JamesChampionLinux that's him yeah, he also has his own channels. he livestreams himself developing and venting. his channels are @renerebe (bits inside) and @morerenerebe (code therapy)
Thanks for sharing his channels. I'll take a look.
I do a lot of server work, it's usually over ssh. But when I find myself working on TTY (either directly on a machine, or connected to a VM), I use tmux. It's really the only way I see myself doing any kind of complex work in TTYs. You get copy/paste, scrollback, etc. Tmux is also good in graphical environments; I use it all the time for all my tasks
Yeah, screen and tmux are great and a ready solution. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Smart people do THE dumbest things.
vim have a support for a terminal in its windows, the command is ':ter'. Press Ctrl-W N to go into normal vim command mode, effectivly doing a snapshot of the terminal output which allows you to work with it like with a regular text buffer.
I KNEW that there used to be scrollback in the tty, but a few years ago I tried and it didn't work and I couldn't find anything and thought I was going crazy.
Using tee is a pretty genius solution although I have gotten used to just piping everything into less or using screen or emacs ansiterm, but it can be inconvenient having to run a command twice in the case of just using less the normal way. Most importantly it would be nice to have a log of things for when something inevitably goes wrong. Although in that case I would prefer if it recorded stdin as well, but beggars can't be choosers I guess.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, and I'm pleased that this video proved to you that scrollback used to exist in the TTY.
I remember my graphical environment wasn't working and I wanted to check errors in tty, and the command would just output everything into terminal for you to scroll through it, but I couldn't scroll, because someone decided it was redundant in tty.
Lol, thanks for sharing a real world need you had for using scrollback in the TTY.
Now I pipe every command to "less" which acts as a pager for the tty, thus enabling scrollback, using regular scrollback is still 10x easier
I don't believe less works with streams. I believe it takes a snapshot of the standard output at the time the less command is ran which might be executed before the previous command is completed.
@@ImperiumLibertas it does work with streams. It will store it in ram as it comes in. When you press the end key it will wait until it receives the EOF and then scroll there
@@kreuner11 it depends on how the application is streaming to standard out. There are 100% applications that do not work with less.
@@ImperiumLibertas Pipes don't drop data when written to, they get buffered in kernel-space.
The only relevant file descriptors here are 0 and 1, output process writes data to 1 and less reads from 0.
When piping, the shell sets up the two pipe ends, forks two child processes, and in each one of them it closes the real stdio descriptors and uses dup2() to replace them with the pipe ends.
The processes begin executing the desired program and are waited for or exited by SIGINT.
Aren't you concerned this TEE'd /tmp/scrollback file will grow as it stores your tty text? I think there must be a way to limit max # of lines for so many lines and then just deletes and appends new lines.
Good point. I've not worried about it, yet. I usually only do this if I know I'm going to need to use it at the time. I'll try to explore this further in another video in the future. Thanks.
"Nobody cares about maintaining..."
No, it's just a lot less people who willing to spent time fixing that issue want to go through the bureucracy of commiting something into Linux codebase instead of Linux codebase activly trying to pull nice stuff off the Internet into itself. Game developers, who have and even those who don't have modding support, do that.
Seems so overcomplicated when you could just pipe your command into less directly
A big thumbs up from me James!
Thanks! :)
Great solution! I use tmux in TTY. I also mostly ssh into the systems.
Thanks. tmux and screen are great solutions too.
I fully expected a custom kernel and some hacking to restore Linus mistakes. But be honest, do you really need scrollback in tty, or is it just bloat?
I would like to know if system admins miss this feature, or do they only care about automated logging. I usually on do this if I know that I'm going to need it at the time.
@@JamesChampionLinux it's the kind of thing you don't miss, until you go to use it and it's not there.....
As usual enjoyable content. Doing my bit for the algorithm. On your next live stream could you perhaps elaborate what your goals with the channel is? Just the first milestone. So we know when we can return to the back of class. When would you consider the ball rolling to make it worth your time.
Thanks! Sure thing, I'll try to elaborate a bit more of what my goals are in the livestream.
I finally, kind of, answered this question here: th-cam.com/video/_xhxwWKynPI/w-d-xo.html