FD making a 2.5 hour long video about how much he hates drama has the same energy as Kat Blaque writing a 10k work essay about how she doesn't care about Vowsh.
Fuck it. I agree with Vaush. Signifier likes to pretend he's above it all. If he doesn't wanna be in entanglements with other people on YT, then stop name dropping them in your content.
I gave FD a chance and watched a lot of his content, I got pretty fed up with it long before he got tangled in drama with anyone. He's just not a very reasonable guy and he says weird stuff unprompted.
His criticism of vaush is not just “drama” it’s the piss poor understanding these white content creators of black political thought. To a audience is majority white and ignorant to these ideals as well. Vaush does this chronically talking about black political thought and then cries foul when black people call him out for it.
The one thing FD did in this video which I respected was that he just straight up admitted he chose a side of these arguments based entirely off his in-group bias
For what it's worth, even though I didn't agree with a good amount of what he said in this video, I feel like a lot of people are being *very* uncharitable towards what he was actually saying, and the goal of the video. I'll admit it felt very... odd, and honestly out of character, for him to just blatantly state that he hated Xanderhal in particular, but the actual situation and mechanics he was talking about, and the problems, were very legitimate. Not that the conversation hasn't been had before (see Contrapoints, who he did refer to explicitly), but that was even more about cancellation in particular rather than the general "stir the pot for money" thing. And even though you could make a very clear argument that this is *also* that, at least he was very much willing to extend some understanding and sympathy for how those people who he, in his own words, doesn't like, also get treated like shit when they shouldn't and *do* do right by a lot of people, and often. Xan didn't give him that. Also, I'm sorry, but he was just right about the professor flowers thing, full stop. There's having a discussion/disagreement around principles of black nationalism, sure, but that whole situation was just foul, and at this point I think everyone's aware of that.
@@SaberToothPortilla yeah, the situation with PF was foul, but not for anything Vaush did. She came on stream, said a bunch of wild dumb shit, and then when she got called out for it by a bunch of people she doubled and tripled down. That's how it works being someone who wants to be a public figure, and FD never substantiated a single point with evidence. He just gestured and the idea that there was unwarranted harassment and left it at that. Same with all the shit with Mule, he just repeated Mule's side of the story uncritically, and then gestured vaguely at the idea that people were upset at Mule for "being too toxic" instead of, you know, being a fucking liar. Again, the only thing I respected about that video was the fact that he just admitted his opinions were based entirely on being part of one clique fighting with everyone who said anything bad about his clique without caring about the truth. At least that's honest. Oh, and I've watched all of FDs previous videos too and considered myself a big fan, so this isn't me coming in just to be mad at him. I like FD, but this whole situation has made me seriously doubt his judgment when it comes to some issues
@@nickwilson7241 I've watched most of the PF debate, and I think PF did argue her thoughts badly, but I do give that it was Vaush that brought up white genocide, not her. I think, given the opportunity, I would be willing to hear her thoughts on black nationalism on her terms where she's not arguing against a topic she wasn't talking about. I also am kind of mixed on the FD/Muel thing, on one hand, he did call Muel out in his video, buuut on the other I still didn't appreciate how he lowballed what Muel did, and for all the sympathy FD extended to Vaush and Xan in his video, I feel like he should've said Muel lied about and made shitty jokes about a victim of abuse, full stop.
@@gregvs.theworld451 yeah, my issue with the Xan stuff is that FD (and a lot of other people in the left tube space) are trying to spin that as people were mad cause Mule was being mean, and then use that as a way to run cover for all the straight up lies he said that had nothing to do with the abuse apologia he did on top of that. It's a way for them to basically double down on the lies by going, "it's still not an excuse for being mean" as if the meanness was the primary problem instead of the lies
@@gregvs.theworld451 exactly. PF is obviously smart enough to know that genocide = more than just literally killing people, and thus asking her thoughts on genocide are also asking her thoughts re: "ethnostate as cultural genocide." but honestly Vaush didn't make that clear and his debate style is intimidating as fuck. similar to the way Vaush dressed down Noah, it doesn't even mean all Noah's points were wrong, just that Vaush is the master debater in the moment. he was able to surprise attack people like PF and Noah, in a way that may have made them mischaracterize their own beliefs and arguments. that is a weak point of the debate format in general.
Never ending leftist infighting, over the least important shit imaginable. I wish we could just actually work together towards an even slightly better world.
Frankly, after he played defence for DJ Muel, I lost any and all respect or charitably for FD. Shame, but when you'll defend that degree of clear abuse just because you don't like a live-streamer, I cannot trust a single word that comes out of your mouth.
@@sophiesong8937 if you defend someone who is on the side of an abuser who tried to pin the blame on the victim? Im sorry but not. You have lost my respect He can take his balanced take and shove off until he realises what he did
@@sophiesong8937 I do not care in the slightest. There's no 'Balanced perspective' on abuse, he failed to recognize that, and if he can't recognize that, again, I do not care, or believe that he's the one capable of doing it with that, or anything else. I don't trust him. This is the issue when it comes to these kinds of people and lying.
The left still doesn't understand that "pointing out en masse you're wrong" and "sending threats and insults" are not the same thing. Ugh. It'd be like "Yo, your shoes are dirty and you tragged in mud, I don't appreciate that, could you be a little more considerate here?" being equated to, "Your shoes are fugly and I'm gonna cut your friggin feet off so you never get a chance to wear any ugly shoes ever again!" Like...those aren't the same.
It comes from the same mindset that leads to "I like pancakes" "Oh, so you hate waffles?" Opinions and stances have nuance. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that their stance is the most extreme opposite of yours.
@@celestine5231 It's also where that "my detractors simply misunderstand my point, if only I explain *harder* they'll get it and finally come around to agreeing with me wholesale" mentality comes from. I could understand what you're saying better than you do, that doesn't mean I have to agree.
And, yes, it can be extremely tiresome and even, downright exhausting to be pestered by a hundred sealions or two-hundred autistic people over some detail--and, yes, I even think there's a point at which that pestering can be considered genuine harassment. Even so, it's dishonest and counterproductive to completely fail to differentiate between pestering and insults or threats.
I hate how FD and crew can just put out hit piece after hit piece on Vaush and Xanderhal and no one cares but if one of them responds to the videos to defend themselves, than somehow they are the ones being divisive. It just makes no sense to me.
It's basic tribalism. It's totally fine to isolate and hate on the "other". That's normal. Though getting attacked is getting attacked. They just fail to realize they are thinking with their feelings just like we make fun of conservatives for. Failures of human beings, all of them. The Monkey Brain has won the puberty fight. (if they've even gone through puberty, yet)
It's weird how these people never bring up Heem's convo with PF. It was the same exact dialogue tree but Heem is nice so it's not a "debate" it's a conversation.
One thing that irks me is the idea that Black people from the US could easily go to an African country and feel right at home. My family is from the Caribbean. They came here when they were teenagers. And even THEY who spent their childhood on the island could never reintegrate into their old homeland. As a Black person whose parents are from another country, it irks me when Black Americans whose history is cemented in this country think all of our cultures could seamlessly blend into one another. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. Side note, we always talk about how we're not a monolith, but in the meantime, I'm not allowed to have disagreements with other leftists about how we should interact with non-Black people.
@@Serpillard Don’t forget the part where the ethnic conflicts with the locals eventually ended in the African-Americans borderline enslaving the Africans at rubber plantations for the next century and a half.
19:53 My man is really conflating Lindsay Ellis getting bullied off of TH-cam for stating the fact that a lot of children's entertainment is derivative of ATLA with DJ Muel saying a guy who was abused by his mum and gf has mummy issues and just needs to have make-up sex. Whether it's dishonesty or stupidity, no one should be taking this guy seriously.
The worst part is, I personally feel like FD Signifier's overall point about the productivity of drama is pretty agreeable. The problem is that, intentional or not, he ends up engaging in the exact sort of unproductive shit-flinging that he accuses debate bro personalities of doing.
Him talking about the drama is a bare bone’s understanding of his bigger issue with white leftists. They claim to be for the breaking down of systems that suppressed marginalized groups, and say shit that contradicts it all the time. -the obsession with fringe black groups (hoteps/NOI/kanye) -claiming black people are more homophobic then whites -characterizing black folks with racist stereotypes and no historical understanding of how they became -they speak confidently on black political issues with no understanding, get checked about it then get mad they get checked about it. How is that productive to unifying ALL LEFTIST if one group is telling the other to stop speaking ignorantly on the other due to the impact it creates
@@ShockDropped yes we get it. Black people have never done anything wrong at any point and can never do anything bad and every time a leftist criticize a black persona for any reason it is literally just cause they are racist. We get it.
I love many of them, but the video essayists are the primary ones who do this as opposed to the opposite. It would be interesting if they would just actually reach out and talk instead of making 1-2 hour long videos.
I mean we’ve already seen what happens when they reach out and talk, like Noah with Vaush and FD with Shark. They will just walk back most if not all of what they said in a pseudo to full on hit piece video they made.
@@jo0rd73 Now, i actually did enjoy FD's conversation with Shark MUCH more than what Noah did, but I wish he showed that same courtesy to others in that space. Especially for those he claim that he doesn't like. For someone who makes many videos about coming together, he and others like him don't really make a lot of effort to reach out to said individuals.
To say DJ Mule isn't that bad of a guy while talking about debate bros. He isn't even a debate bro, and DJ explicitly said he did what he did for money. That is the definition of grifter. To play defense for that is wild. Like where are your priorities? Someone could make a video saying that they are lying to make money. As long as they aren't going after FD, FD wouldn't mind.
Decent left-wing video essayists are getting harder and harder to come by when they all have ended up creating drama with streamers because they think streamers create drama. At this rate Jessie Gender is the only left video essayist I look forward to seeing videos from.
Noah lies. Makes an entire video and a response based on demonstrable falsehoods. Gets a “there, there” from a ton of people like FD Signifier. It’s frustrating the support behind the bloke.
The fact that he took the video down when drama was at it's peak and later when things cooled down quietly put it back up, fucking coward. I looked up the video A Practical Guide to Leftist Content (may not be exact title) the first video that I discovered him from and the one that REALLY blew him up where his coverage of Vaush was very much positive, how things have changed.
At least Noah has moved on with his life. So many of these other jokers won't stop talking about how Vaush was mean to Professor Flowers that one time.
The thing that annoys me to no end about this is that there are actually plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Vaush, yet this ultimately comes back to FD’s inability to admit that he was wrong about something. I’m never taking anyone seriously who thinks it’s ok to downplay and lie about someone’s abuse just because they don’t like them. Merrick put it best, either you have morals or you don’t and FD can’t even say “My bad I messed up”.
The one nice thing was that he admits he only watched the first half of the PF convo. It's the second half where she really starts committing to stuff (plus that weird section where it becomes a talk therapy session for her?) Dude is unwilling to engage with anything that might undermine his position. He's basically holding onto a god belief that he can't justify only in this case his god is "Vaush Bad".
Yep, I'm a fan of Vaush,but I'm a critical fan and he does have some problems. But I really don't see what other people get out of FD Signifier. He's just long-winded. He'll mention some history and he'll mention some academic principles, but in the end doesn't really make good points. Everything's padded with 3 hours of Umms, ahhs, and "Oh, we're going to get to that.."
At this point i think FD basically just gets the benefit of the doubt from everyone because he has this air of being calm and reasonable while spouting absolute nonsense.
Its been a while since ive watched him but his early videos seemed to be better argued and presented. His problem really is the refusal to watch the people he's criticising. So just talking out his ass from second hand info
@@kharris3352 nah fd signifier makes good point (and some amazing ones to) Everyone is biased against people they disagree with. Fd is against debate bros but doesnt inform his views with anything but second hand info. Its bad analysis.
Your comment reads like the people who were pissed off about Anita Sarkeesian. You just hate FD because he’s black and you’re racist. It’s really not that complicated
watching him literally say "DJ Muel did a bag thing" showing DJ Muel go "yeah i was as evil as possible idgaf" and then go "DJ Muel is a good person" really is all you need to see
"Cancelling someone is only bad when it happens to someone I like" is more or less the message; FD is advocating for more drama...in an anti-drama video where he spends 2 hours talking about drama he has with Vaush and Xanderhal. The level of self-obliviousness is astounding.
Wrong. He admitted numerous times that Muel did toxic shit with his video on Xanderhal, but he believes overall that DJ Muel was on the side of right overall. Good people can do bad shit. Bad people can do good shit. This is reality.
@@mr.hidden9242 I don't think he was going after Xanderhal for any other reason than he felt like he has to defend his friends. One of which he does a podcast with and has a history of saying really indefensible racist and biphobic stuff consistently. It also felt like projecting and like he just wanted to dunk on a young streamer. Funny how he didn't dunk on vaush in the most personal way possible
@@mr.hidden9242 *Wrong. He admitted numerous times that Muel did toxic shit with his video on Xanderhal,* Yeah no, he didn’t, he glossed over the Toxic shit and never mentioned it, what he said was “IF Muel did this, then it still doesn't excuse people attacking him or trying to cancel him” he at no point talked about the abusive and disgusting shit Muel did that almost every other youtuber, essayist and debater EXCEPT for FD. and his pack like Thoughslime, Bad Bunny/Kira chan and etc (who just so happen to be friends with Muel and follow each other in the same circle), called out.
Is it cool to call this a grift when video essayists constantly do the 'I'm not instigating any drama but let me make this video about something that happened literally months ago and directly critique people I could just engage directly with but won't because I'm too scared.' thing?
Yeah, it basically is. I wish people would either admit they're not opposed to drama *or* actually contribute something that promises to help quell the drama. I grow weary of people straddling the fence by claiming to loathe drama while actively stirring the pot--but, that's human nature for you, and I'm probably not wholly innocent, either!
@@dinosaysrawr It's worse because it feels like the vast majority of the Drama video essayists are involved in when it comes to calling out 'debate bros' is instigated *By them* but daring to respond apparently makes you the asshole.
@@ibringit987 , that's my read, too. I could just be biased, but it seems to me like an essayist will do a 2-hour video calling out Vaush, Xanderhal, Keffals, Demon Mama, Hasan, and then Vaush again for good measure; the streamers will respond to the video and call the essayist a liar, a tankie, a smoothbrain, or an asshat; and the streamer will be derided for "causing drama." Hate to sound Tumblry, but that's frankly kind of abusive and gaslighty, n'est-ce pas? Correct me if I have blind spots, but while I can certainly think of examples of streamers referring back to previous drama or remarking that they think so-and-so is a scumbag, I can't recall any instance of a streamer deciding to do a deep-dive éxpose on a video essayist with whom they've never engaged. (I can think of times streamers have covered other streamers, though, and times when they've covered tankies, fascists, and random lolcows, but that's not the same thing.) It's also shitty that essayists I normally respect and like haven't been able to resist the honeypot, and the resulting drama has usually served to make them look really bad. It just doesn't seem worth it to me.
@@dinosaysrawr It could be a bias thing or just a 'sample size' kind of thing like we're following streamers who just *don't* behave this way but idk. It certainly feels like whenever stuff like this bubbles up, It's usually because a video essayist has decided to take the brave position of 'Debate bros bad' and have decided to film a video in front of their audience who will give zero pushback on any claims because they already hate all the people who are going to be covered.
I love when he defended DJ Mule's video trying to cancel Xanderhal, then admitted he didn't actually watch it, and then slammed Xanderhal for apparently trying to cancel DJ Mule...by defending himself against Mule's attempt to cancel him.
While he was working on and prepping this meaningless husk of a video, people like Conure were covering anti-trans legislation in Oklahoma that seeks to prevent *adults* up to age 26 from receiving affirming care. Two and a half hours bloviating about the exact thing you're doing. It's so fucking frustrating how seriously he takes his freshmen level understanding of anything and tries to apply it to inane bullshit and petty mudslinging. Edit: I didn't even realize it when I first saw canoe covering it, but I get why the age they chose is 26. Because that's how long you can stay on your parent/guardian's health insurance when you attending college and whatnot after high school.
Conure? I would definately subscribe to that channel if I'm not and listen to their unfailingly based takes and also donate to them instead of Faush Libaugh, the CEO of Racism and COO of Misogyny.
i get what you mean, but i also think that calling the FD video "2.5 hours of bloviating" is a little unfair. i've watched some of it and i can see, from FD's perspective, why he felt the need to make it. like, even if he's wrong, he genuinely feels that this element of leftism is bad and harasses people. he talked more about Prof. Flowers and Vaush, and in his view, Prof. Flowers having this negative spotlight and becoming suicidal because of it, was actively the fault of debate bro culture and Twitter culture, and he felt the need to speak on that. FWIW, i actually mostly disagree with FD's take, because, while i obviously don't wish for anyone to be suicidal, there's also semi-obvious point that pretty much every online leftist is going to have the same problems whenever they make a mistake, because Twitter be crazy. so saying "y'all made Prof. Flowers suicidal" is in that sense a subjective point. but he also rehashed with her some points about Land Back vs. ethnostate, some elaborations on various types of black nationalism, etc. i personally learned some stuff from FD's video and what i've seen so far. so, wtf is the point of my own rambling? i guess that these "2.5 hour long videos on drama" shouldn't just be dismissed as "wow you made a drama video about hating drama?" rather, they're a symptom of, as you said, "petty mudslinging" on the left that can't be blamed solely on either "debate bros" or "video essayists"...to the extent that distinction even matters. it may all seem pointless to talk about the "drama," compared to real issues, and, yeah, it probably is. but, the reason people keep coming back to what seems like their own personal drama bullshit, is because THEY see it as a major detriment to leftist solidarity and unity.
"You're lucky we're looking for equality and not revenge." - Kinda sorta getting the vibe that she's actually out for revenge and doesn't have the courage to outright say it.
More like she knows she can't say that stuff or she will put off a whole lot of people. Honestly this made me lose all the respect for FD I had when he didn't immediately call that out for what it was and shut her BS down.
@@sub-harmonik it's hatred with revenge as it's justification at the end of the day. It's so blatantly obvious it makes me suspicious of FDs views on land back and white deportation are....
No thats just a basic statement of fact. If all of the colonized people *actually* wanted revenge, it would mean you were literally living in the world white supremacists try to convince you you are. So yes, you *should* be glad that the actual conversations that go on among colonized peoples are geard towards liberation and equality rather than revenge.
@@sub-harmonik Really does imply the revenge is justified in her mind, and that she’d be fine with it if more people agreed they wanted to take revenge.
Nah, you dont understand. Djmuel is a video essayist, and whatever he puts in his 1.5 hour bad faith video is irrelevant. It's the "unprovoked" response (i mean harassment) to his video that matters. Oh and the tweets after the fact where FD and djmuel continue to support djmuels abuser apologia, also not important. Whats important is that i dont like vaush
He's also repeatedly made googly eyes at Destiny, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like yeah, take up for the dude that laughed in the face of SA survivors and told them it was their fault. Between that and playing defense for Flowers just makes me feel ill, and I was a fairly big Fiq fan with his earlier vids on hip hop and culture in general, being what I grew up with and around. I just... bleh. The levels of performance and hollow crap is so tiresome.
I got two hours in. It was good for 40 minutes and then FD dove straight into being Muel's PR manager. He does a careful dance of giving Debatebros a fair shake while conveniently placing all his buddies in the best light and demonizing the remainder. He bends over backwards to gloss over the details of his friends' controversies while reaching a mile to make statements like "Vaush thinks Dubois is ideologically the same as the Timothy McVeigh." I tapped out, but with less than 30 minutes left in the video, he made zero mention of Kirachats/badbunny and even helped Muel in painting his Xan video as a hit piece made to take heat off of Prof. Flowers... and not the mutual friend who has a history of calling people N words and showing bald faced bigotry or Sophie the Xan Sex Cult rumor spreader. Both individuals are just deleted from his narrative.
the fact this comment is so well written by comparison to all the dumb sht I see from FD fans here and that it concludes the exact same thing I did is really validating.
It's so funny when people show an extended clip of Vaush making the most reasonable, objectively correct statement you've ever heard in your life, and then act as though the clip is self-explanatory in showing how much of a terrible person Vaush is
All I can picture is the Spongebob scene of him showing Patrick all the hidden dirty diapers and going "HMMMMM?!?" but with out of context clip chimped segments behind the walls and in a pile out back.
Reminder that DJMuel, FD Signifier, Thought Slime ect are all 30+ years old and have collectively made numerous callouts and hitpieces against Xanderhal, a 23 year old, for being...slightly edgy. Further reminder that this is incredibly weird behavior
Vaush is somewhere around 28-29 iirc. And DemonMama is in her early 30s, but the Thought Slime clique always forget she exists, because then they can't frame "debate bros" as all being cis dudes. Edit: was meant to be a reply to @nicolasnamed
Leaves me conflicted. FD is the whole reason I'm part of this part of TH-cam. He really got me to think more critically about my issues (black issues) as they pertain to treating others well. I wish he'd lay off vaush. Vaush also has helped me learn a lot more about LGBTQ issues. Why can't both of these people be part of the same scene? I don't get it. I also likd xanderhal, conure and shark. I learn from everyone. I feel zero inclination towards this drama. Without this community I'd still be low-key redpilled.
I absolutely agree. I wish this drama never happened. But Vaush and the others have to keep defending themselves from stupid videos like these all the time. I wish we could just stop
They aren't the same tribe. During this video, F.D talked about how he went to bat for his group and picked a side, and how Merrick is loyal to Xan and Vaush because they were her tribe. The thing about how politics are organized by the Right and Left is the Right have a uniform desire for strong all encompassing ideology. The Right deals in ideals, in perfect worlds, absolute goals to meet. They will mix and match oppressions and excuses for why the world is shitty and let it all blend together. The Right fights over power. Rarely is it over belief. Their beliefs are think less, feel more, and act on intuitive dumbsss instinct. The Left are what is Left of those people who fight with or are hurt by the Right. But they aren't one group. There all the groups the Right doesn't want. There is no unified Left. There are border realms of sub cultures that band together for alliance against the Right, but they are as different nations. High King Vaush of the Debate Bros is not speaking the same cultural language as wise Sage F.D. Signifer of the Video Essyists. They have different ideas on art, on how they should speak, on what words they say, on what kind of tone is allowed and not allowed. The Debate Bro kings like Sharkthree zero and the queens like Keffals are opposed to the Video Essay witches like Thoughtslime and Sophia from Mars. How they frame issues, what tactics the use, how they believe in those tactics? These are sites of political conflict. There is no Left. There is what is Left when you take away the Right, and the result are different tribal factions of different identities battling to survive and cultivate their culture and their beliefs and their principles, but they aren't the same side. A common enemy doesn't create fellowship. It creates military alliance without merging groups.
Weird for FD to say 75% of Vaush's community checked out after Prof Flowers, but that was when I found Vaush for the first time because it blew up so much lol
FD would've instantly won my respect if he'd said "Vaush may be attracted to horses, but he's not racist" Instead he said the opposite, a statement that is objectively incorrect.
@Mythic southern drawl lol honey you have never been to the South clearly. It was 5am when Vaush streamed with BJG, your not gonna speak as crisply either.
The main problem I had is when it came to DJ Muel he didn't put him to the fire like he should have like he has for the hate boner that he has for Vaush and Xan. Can we also point out that F.D. is not even watching all these videos/clips that he is making content about to get the full context for his own work?
That is the most charitable interpretation of this situation you can have. FD either watched the clips or didn’t, knowing full well there was the context, and ignored it. Both show a disregard for honesty.
Yes, it's absolutely infuriating how someone can be so transparently dishonest. "I've never seen this video, but I'm going to assert a completely made up version of what happened and use it to accuse Vaush of being racist somehow." I also find it fascinating how FD Signifier insists on spreading the same conspiracy theories about Vaush as the average neo-Nazi hater but he's too concerned about his AdSense revenue on his disgusting drama video to even actually say what the accusation is for fear of being demonetized. Just pure scumbag behaviour all around.
@@finitecrystal I feel confident that he's seen the out of context clips that circulate around Twitter, and the first 90 minutes of the Ms. Flowers debate, and that's it
💯it's pathetic. It's the same thing DJ Mule and Noah Samsung admitted, they're too lazy to do research. You can tell their "research" is just collecting twitter clips.
I used to be a HUGE fan of FD, but a lot of his recent behavior is… disappointing to say the least. I’m still holding out hope that he eventually becomes more open minded about this stuff, but I dunno if that’s realistic or not at this point.
white people can’t take it when black content creators criticize their heroes. fd isn’t scared of white leftists who want to foster dangerous communities and so he stands up to them. I’m glad people like you who will defend and ally with white supremacists if it allows you to get one over on black or trans leftists are leaving the community, so it can be safer for the rest of us.
yeah, i remember first getting into him really early into his essay stuff, and he seemed pretty cool, but platforming (i'm assuming mule and flowers are relatively small figures, as i first heard about them via him and vaush) and defending ppl like dr eggman and professor fuckwad is beyond insane, i legitimately have no idea how he can defend these people, brush their behavior off like it's nothing, and then get defensive when people call him out on it?!?!?!?!! major spineless bitch behavior
Just because I got annoyed with how often Vaush was told "just watch the video," I went and found it. 40 minutes in and it seems like FD is becoming aware of wokescolds, carving out an idea that problematic figures are still people who are capable of redemption, and appears to be prepping for calling Vaush, Xan, Demonmama (basically anyone who made a video calling out DJ Muel for his ass video) a wokescold... So yeah... those people are idiots, but I do wish Vaush would have watched the whole video because HOW THE FUCK CAN FD BE THIS DENSE? VDS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MEME.
...yeah... if anyone wants to get "to the point" of FDs video it's when at the 38 minute mark, right before he brings on DJ Muel and likens his "cancelation" for that 2 hour video on Xan similarly to Hasan being "cancelled" for buying a house. This is absolutely not a "holistic thing" when FD accuses breadtube of being obsessed with drama; using wokescolds on Twitter as a premise and the response to DJ Muel as an example. Seriously, it makes sense FD worked as a professor in education because this grown ass man saw someone essentially bully another person, then took the side of the bully when the target of harassment fought back. Holllyyy shit. DJ Muel literally started that entire drama and yet Xan, Vaush, and Demonmama are in the wrong for pointing out DJs abuse apologia when he literally did the whole "but what about make up sex, Xan?" joke. Jesus fuck.
@Billie Cruz He is essentially describing wokescolds the first 30 minutes, but never actually uses the term. I stopped listening after an hour because it seems like FD got all his "Debate Bro" information from DJ since there is Shoe was apparently always a part of the left, Destiny and Vaush are still beasties, and DJ "does real activist work." I fucking can't.
The "All your videos dont get a half million veiws that means your subscribers have checked out" argument is especially funny considering the views on FDs own videos.
@@falconeshield I'm sure some of it is artificial, but the quartering is either the center of, or adjacent to some trending topic every other week so I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of his veiws are legit.
@@thedarkone246FD Signifier actually gets views on most of his videos that are comparable to his number of subscribers so this isn’t the own you think it is.
Vaush, after India got independence they said the British Raj staff could no longer stay (Around 50,000). The other British could stay (Most chose to leave, around 200,000.). The only deportation that occurred were colonial officials (Perhaps crucially, it was the British government who grabbed them as part of its agreement with India to gtfo), unless they asked to stay and then it was judged on a case by case basis by India. There is still the Anglo-Indian community descended from those who chose to stay. They number 125,000 in India, 20,000 in Bangladesh, and under 1000 in Pakistan (guess why). For comparison, the Indian state has August 2nd as "Anglo-Indian day." and celebrates their heritage and culture. The Anglo-Indian association also funds family reunion events where relatives from the UK can meet their (by marriage) families in India, with the Anglo-Indians forming the link. The Indian constitution also has specific articles to protect anglo-Indians which applied the term to British people who chose to remain, as well as their descendants regardless of how intermarried they became, and they have their own "State representative" in the national parliament because they don't have a geographic state but claim to belong to "All of india". (Sort of like if we gave Native Americans two senators). And also; The organisation's (Anglo-Indian association) efforts under the presidency of Anthony led to Article 331 being included in the Constitution of India: "Notwithstanding anything in Article 170, the Governor of a State may, if he is of opinion that the Anglo-Indian community needs representation in the Legislative Assembly of the State and is not adequately represented therein, [nominate one member of that community to the Assembly]." This model was later applied to other minority groups. The Indian example demonstrates that Prof Flowers is insane frankly.
how much is it actually applied to other minority groups though? cause i know for a fact that india's siddi community is very oppressed and in some cases is being actively ethnically cleansed based off of some reports
I like how kerala has 1 reserved seat in the legislature for an anglo. That person literally gets to say "ya im the most popular white person in the province apparently".
Ironically a lot of those issues exist because when the British left India they did so in an absolute hurry-dismantling 200 years of colonial rule in less than two tends to cause even more problems. In other words: India’s political history is messy, though that shouldn’t be news to anyone…
FD has made some really insightful, eloquent & introspective videos - the kind where even if you don't agree with him, you still respect his perspective and come away with new insights. He still makes videos like that in between the drama BS, but it's so much harder to respect him as a person since he hitched his wagon to the anti-vaush, anti-streamer, wokescold left. That, in turn, makes it harder to view his other content with the same level of respect, as he's demonstrated such a lack of charitability, self-awareness and good-faith. It's a real shame. The same thing happened with Noah Samson, Thought Slime, Sophie from Mars, Kat Blaque etc. They do still make good videos - sometimes great videos - but I struggle to get as much out of them as I once did, as I just don't respect or trust them as people.
Uhh so much agreed!!! It’s like their content has been soured for me due to their actions. Which is a shame because I used to love all their content. Oh well. “Never meet your heroes” I guess lol
Ugh, yeah, absolutely. I used to love Sophie from Mars. Then I watched that video about conspiracy theories, where she used a clip without context of Vaush while basically claiming that he’d rather lie and win an argument than to say the truth and be wrong. And I thought: “Like, the same thing you’re doing right now?” And I don’t know, I can’t trust anything she says anymore. I’m always wondering if she isn’t lying to make me agree with her point; I’d rather watch Voosh, because even if I don’t agree with him in everything, at least I know that he believes in what he says and is whiling to change his mind if proved wrong.
People have a drama problem. The only reason the right doesnt have that much drama is because there isnt anything to disagree there. Are you against facts and logic ? If yes you are a right winger, thats it.
@@kylegonewild unironically this. The right fundamentally defers to authority, so it’s more in line with them to shut up and listen to a prominent content creator or politician when a goal needs to be accomplished.
The right doesn’t have any real ideas. So of course there are no internal ideological disputes. While the left ALSO plays way too much people politics, that is literally all the right is capable of.
You should have that Native American lady on again. The one that was actually a Land-Back activist, instead of PF the exclusively-aesthetically-Land-Back grifter.
Yeah it is interesting how the aesthetic lefties conveniently ignore people like her in their discourse. Otherwise it would compromise their notion that _they_ and _they_ alone represent the marginalized groups they claim to represent; then when there is others within that group who speak up against them they do the ol' conservative trick of just pretending it doesn't exist and making sure not to even allude to it in their content in favour of focusing on those who meet the identity signifiers that are convenient to their narrative-aka white and male. So they're unironically erasing marginalized voices.
PF isnt a landback anything... Vaush is the one who brought up Land Back in thag conversation, then proceeded to grossly mischaracterise it by putting words in PFs mouth, then had a simp witg a convenient identity marker on to validate him. The vaush/PF conversation is a VERY easy litmus test for basic understanding of and commitment to liberatory politics and you have very clearly failed it if you think PF was the problem.
@@coyoteblue4027 agreed. I don’t think Vaush or many of his viewers really understand the politics of South Africa, its impact across generations, and the difference from America well enough to opine on that stuff intelligently.
Ppl don’t know that to complain about drama online as a big content creator you have to risk starting your own drama, it’s basically impossible to do it otherwise.
Nah, that only happens when you're focusing on stupid social aspects and opinions instead of actual facts. If people are upset about facts, like someone _actually is_ an abuser, or _actually did_ defend N*zis, then being a wishy-washy opinionated dipsh*t about it and failing to cover context like these idiot essayists will never happen. Full stop. It's easy and pretty quick to call out liars, manipulators, and thieves when you're already talking about it. The fact he talked for 2.5 hours on it is a pretty huge indicator that this is _nothing but_ drama. The people who do not see that need to increase their social skills something fierce. Real life isn't paced like a slow-drip Reality TV drama.
Prof. Flowers does a lot of what Jordan Peterson does. Leaves open horrible conclusions from her pre-conceptions and just kind of throwing her arms in the air saying she isn't responsible for what conclusions other people draw. This willfulness on the left to discount all that is incredibly disturbing. She either hasn't thought out her underlying positions, or she's fine with genocide.
To be fair, those are legitimate criticisms, but I think FD was *very* clear about the problems that he had with that situation, and c'mon, they *were* legitimate problems. People turned her into a media circus, which almost certainly wouldn't have been warranted even she did, legitimately, directly, believe in the notion of white genocide, but the thing is that she doesn't. And that's an important distinction, because the line was *not* "She believes in a set of positions that may be consistent with the idea of white genocide"(and that's a pretty big may) it was "She believes in white genocide" Like c'mon, it's probably not reasonable to cast someone as being a thing because they inadvertantly walked into the thing. That's why it kinda put a bad taste in my mouth when FD (and this *might've* been a humorous exaggeration, not sure) just said that Vaush was a racist as if it was with intent, instead of saying that he *did* something racist or (inadvertantly) believed something racist.
@@SaberToothPortilla Advocating for something in every way except implicitly is still advocating for the thing. Flowers doubled down on the genocide stuff in Vaush's talk, then tripled down right after with Heem, and still pops off about it here and there with the 'I'm not saying it but I'm saying it' tripe that benefits other grifters.
I liked a few points in FD‘s video, as in that callout culture has failed to change almost anything or anyone for the better. If he was serious about ending drama he should have gone with the Lindsay Ellis interview only and deliver the message without all the contentious examples that he took a side in again, thus reheating the drama. There are so many essayists who somehow manage not to end up in month - and yearlong public drama arcs and at some point FD should try to have a look at what he’s doing. Maybe hbomberguy should make a video addressed specifically to aspiring video essayists about how it‘s done. Not that he would because that’s already too drama-mongering.
That's why I like Hbomb so much. As long as his videos are, they are substantive and make arguments about principles and prescriptions rather than saying half-heartedly "do better" while transparently lying about people he doesn't like. The only people he ever did "callout" videos on were the Anti-SJWs and the skeptic community back during gamergate (or Tommy Talerico in the OOF video if you want to really stretch the definition) because having meaningful and convincing pushback to those figures mattered when those people were in the height of their prominence. His rhetoric is biting, witty, and really funny, which is great for engaging the types of people who watch his type of content. Importantly, he never does serious Flanderization or vilification of anyone on his side of the political aisle. He does his analysis, does it well, and makes sure his audience can get something valuable out of it.
Yeah... honestly, I don't even care who's right about any of the drama. It doesn't matter, and none of it makes anything better for anyone. And including it just enables anyone who's involved with it to just narrows in on "FD took this person's side against me" WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE VIDEO IS ABOUT. No useful discussion can come of this, it just serves to make viewers less charitable to him if they aren't on his side.
Vorscht, just say ethnic cleansing instead of genocide. I get what you're saying, but most people would understand it as ethnic cleansing, not genocide, so using the term genocide creates a gigantic tangent to the discussion.
I skipped to a random part in the Signifier video (because I'm not watching all that shit) to see what the vibe was, and I got to a part where Mr. Signifier is interviewing DJ Muel, and Mr. Muel says, and I'm paraphrasing, "I was being toxic on purpose because I wanted to expose how shitty Xanderhal is." Like??? Do these people not hear themselves when they speak?
Talking about a video you've never seen before should be a reportable offense tbh. Like how can you not have seen the professor flowers debate and still be on her side? Oh yeah... because you havent seen it
@@OrionCanning i do agree, but in the end, we cant really expect a streamer who rants for 10 minutes every 4 minutes to watch a 2 hour long video, now can we? 🙃 He shiuld totally watch it in his spare time tho
I find it extremely baffling how hard the Online Left had to rally around Professor Flowers despite her frankly abhorrent views. Like the amount of circling the wagons for this person is absurd. Is she just friends with a lot of people? Big voice in the space?
I'm Native American If these white colonizers don't like Turtle Island or indigenous people taking their land back and having power they can just go back to Europe.
@@UmQasaannI hope you understand you aren't actually on the left, You are just using progressive language to cover for your wretched reactionary ideas.
It's crazy, her point was that if colonized people want to genocide their colonizers they should have the choice to. I don't understand how people defended her for that
@@Parmetheus Okay, that's a *gross* misrepresentation of what she actually said. Violence =/= Genocide (necessarily anyway) full stop. That's exactly the type of shit that FD said he had a problem with. Now if you do have a problem with the idea of anti-colonial violence in the general sense, that's perfectly understandable, but casting it as necessarily being genocide is putting words in her mouth. If someone, for example, believes that it's okay for a hostage to kill their kidnapper (even if they aren't in danger for their life, say, if the kidnapper is sleeping), that's a non-trivial position, you can have legitimate issues with that stance, for sure, but if you just say that that person believes in murder, that doesn't actually reflect what they're saying.
A lot of people fighting for separatism are doing it to avoid ongoing genocide (see First Nations in Aus, West Papuan's). In that context, the claim 'all separatists are pro genocide' seems highly disingenuous. Like its arguing for the status quo of 'genocide good, fighting for your survival bad'.
@@SaberToothPortillaDoes the mentality extend to years later hunting down your Kidnappers grandson, and then killing them for their grandfather having kidnapped you? Would defending someone's "right" to do that not be supporting murder of random uninvolved people? "There's no amount of violence we could enact on you" - said about colonizers, and the "colonizers" aren't the long dead Europeans, but instead random people of a specific race/ethnicity who lives somewhere that was colonized. Please elaborate for me how that isn't supporting genocide, but is instead anti-colonial violence.
Early in FD's video: "You shouldn't want to cancel someone because they have questionable friends" Later in the video: "Vaush and Xanderhal deserve to be cancelled because they were friends with Shoe on Head."
37:12 she be speaking for “all colonized people” again, her words, and then goes and says she wasn’t speaking about Land Back, or that she never spoke for Indigenous people? DUDE.
@@UmQasaann people who died decades ago, if not centuries. Seems pretty cringe to enact violence on people born after the fact in some type of ancestral revenge
DJMuel: makes a lie-filled hitpiece on Xanderhal in which he tries to frame Xanderhal as being an abuser for the relationship in which he was abused. FD: "I can't believe people are calling him an abuse apologist!" Professor Flowers: Refuses to state during her debate with Vaush that oppressed people don't have the right to genoc1de the racial/ethnic group that oppressed them despite being heavily pressed on it. After the debate, uploads a psychotic rant about how white people are "lucky" that PoC are so kind as to not genoc1de them. FD: "I can't believe people are saying she's an anti-white racist!" FD: Shows out-of-context clips created by neo-naz1s made to make Vaush look like a p3do when he was actually making an argument against p3dophilia. FD: "I can't believe people are calling him a p3do, right guys?" *wink*
ok so FD is never going to really acknowledge how intellectually lazy this all is but I have to say that I can see a kernel of "let's just fucking chill ok" in this that I can kind of agree with, I just wish we wouldn't do this while putting DJ "no make up sex ?" Muel and Vaush in the same bag
The problem I have with video essayists is that they seem to (vaguely) understand how systemic critique works, but they're interpersonal analysis is so fucked.
"To Vaush's credit, as far as I know he's never actually found any kids in Kharkiv" FD Signifier, 2023 I would call this tactic "denunciation through performance forgiveness" or something similar
Well this dude had a depressing arc in my book. All I knew of him is that Vaush liked him a year or two ago and all of a sudden this? I'm starting to think there's a literal electric pathogen going around through the leftist internet making everybody dumb af.
I didn’t disagree entirely with FD Signifier’s video, and he’s made content I’ve enjoyed a lot in the past, but he was entirely uncharitable with the Djmuel situation, once again. People weren’t angry with Djmuel just for funsies, it was because he targeted someone who was the victim of abuse, and not only covered for their abuser, but tried to make their abuser look like the hero and their victim look like a stupid person who deserved it. As someone who’s been a victim of abuse myself, and also saw people cover for my abusers and make excuses for them, I completely understand why Djmuel’s behavior was so problematic and so upsetting to so many. Seeing him double, even triple down on it is extremely disappointing. I’m glad FD at least acknowledged that Djmuel took it way too far, but still, I don’t think he grasped the gravity of that situation, and gave Djmuel way more credibility than he deserved.
IIRC Armoured Skeptic stopped making anti-SJW videos like almost 4 years ago now, even before he broke up with Shoe; he's since deleted most of them from his main channel. And speaking of the breakup it seemed to have fucked him up a fair amount because now he seems to have fully devoted himself to this grand conspiracy theory he made up that reminds me a lot of Graham Hancock (what's really funny is that the theory snowballed out of something he initially did ironically when he was still with Shoe). Aside from probably trying to ape Wendigoon's style in his recent conspiracy era, I really don't think Skeptic is a grifter in the same way that TheQuartering is and I think he genuinely believes the shit he's saying.
...yeah... if anyone wants to get "to the point" of FDs video it's when at the 38 minute mark, right before he brings on DJ Muel and likens his "cancelation" for that 2 hour video on Xan similarly to Hasan being "cancelled" for buying a house. This is absolutely not a "holistic thing" when FD accuses breadtube of being drama obsessed with drama; using wokescolds on Twitter as a premise and the response to DJ Muel as an example. Seriously, it makes sense FD worked as a professor in education because this grown ass man saw someone essentially bully another person, then took the side of the bully when the target of harassment fought back. Holllyyy shit. DJ Muel literally started that entire drama and yet Xan, Vaush, and Demonmama are in the wrong for pointing out DJs abuse apologia when he literally did the whole "but what about make up sex, Xan?" joke. Jesus fuck.
Up until that point it was a nice, mild video about how we shouldn't hold mistakes over people's heads forever and that cancel culture isn't good. Then it became attacking Vaush and Xanderhal for two hours, sometimes about things from years ago.
@WarlordofBritannia Yeah... and what made it worse was DJs newest reasoning for that Xan video is "I just wanted to give that toxic community a taste of their own medicine." ...how did FD actually write down that in the video script and not realize the guy is exactly who he described in the beginning?
God I just hate how this whole thing is going. I have *way* too much respect for FD and how he's helped me and people like me. It really hurts to see him in videos like this.
Let it serve as a warning that a personal grudge can make you just as stupid as any brain dead conservative. I think FD has some good stuff but his grudge with V and crew and his defense of DJMuel shows that there are some critical flaws in his epistemology that he needs to figure out.
Im so confused by his stunlock on this. I would hate to think FD is literally just punching up for the sake getting clicks. He has so many bases rational takes but has a huge blind spot here that makes no sense.
His channel is one of my favorites but he’s purposefully digging himself into drama that’s literally hurting his health. Like, his longest and probably most effort filled video, was about drama, rather than a genuine topic. Surely he hasn’t run out of things to say as a black leftist?
I respect him all the more for it. Vaush a fan base has never felt safe, especially if you aren’t white or male. I’m glad to see some really smart, considerate non white leftist creators standing up to white leftists who want to segregate activism.
Wait, I'm confused. So he says Vaush fell off L + Ratio, and half his viewers don't engage. But also, he has the power to move people to start a relentless campaign of hate on not only against PF and other content creators, which seems like it'd take a lot of people? Odd.
@Treeztop yeah I know, but he was trying to imply that Vaushs' audience wasn't active or engaging with him anymore. And while small groups can cause insanely harmful harassment. The group needs to be motivated and committed. He can't have his cake and eat it too, is what I'm saying.
@@flutterg1035 you said it seems like it would take a lot of people and that’s false. He was implying Vaush’s rhetoric was making people harass CCs. It wasn’t a have your cake and eat it too thing.
FD thinks he's just an enlightened cen- I mean spectator with no biases or issues of his own. Which gives him full authority and right to critique anyone everywhere.
Yeah… I was miffed he posted this video, when two weeks ago he started some high school tier drama with Kidology. Picking apart her video with his groupies while not engaging with her points was some petty high school level sh*t and as expected resulted in some petty drama. Like damn I also didn’t agree with everything she said in her video (she was “enlightened centrists” about the right) but she also made some good points and demonstrated good faith, if he really had some good faith criticism, he should have engaged in a conversation instead of that groupies display.
_"No amount of force would make up for the millions slaughtered/enslaved, but I'm totally not justifying genocide guys!"_ I had forgotten how disgusting her little screed there was...
All of those white hands messing w his braids , that thumbnail insinuates ALOT. It seems to me that his videos are more drama and make more empty accusations towards people that he doesn't like. I get the feeling he is not that bright.
He's either dumb AF, or knowingly stirring up more drama. It could go either way. Some people can manage to only sound dumb when they're lying out their ass the entire time.
@Mythic wait a min, are u being serious? U can tell I'm racist because I said braid instead of lock? Its not about race really it's more about how he claims all these ppl are drama yet look at the thumbnail and his content , it's drama bait. So calm tf down.
22:15 Hasan wasn't accused of being a predator by DGG. It was Lav who accused him. Destiny/DGG defended Hasan. I understand disliking Destiny but Vaush's audience sometimes treats Destiny like the boogeyman in the same way other communities do to Vaush.
Two things, Vaush really should have watched the rest of the video. But also, the reason for this entire exhausting series of barely not drama, is that f.d just dislikes Vaush and is unwilling to admit he's wrong.
How can Vaush complain about being taken out of context when he’s taking FD out of context? He’s not watching the whole video, he doesn’t even know the overarching points that FD was making, he’s just skipping to the parts that he’s in caus that’s all he cares about 🫠🙃 just a little confused
I recall souring on FD when he was talking about Attack on Titan and he said(not a direct quote but close) that the very fact there's a discussion on whether Attack on Titan is fascist or not is proof that it's fascist.
Vaush, if you calm down and check your ego and watch the whole video from beginning to end, you'll see that far from trying to start drama with you, he DEFENDS you. (Looks like none of the people who left upvoted comments here watched the whole video either, btw.) In a whole lotta words, he basically says that you don't deserve the hate that people direct your way and most of what people say about you isn't true. He has his OWN problems with you, but on the whole he defends you 80%, criticizes you 20%. He also says he doesn't like debate bros (as a personal opinion) but concedes that debate bros, on the whole, are a good thing. The problem with the twitch streamer reaction type of content is that you react to whatever you're watching in the moment, sentence by sentence. That's not how you read an essay and it's not how you watch a video essay. You keep saying "Well, what about THIS?" when if you just kept watching, you'd see that he does address it. Yes, you have to watch the video in linear time, but you're supposed to wait until the end before judging or responding to it. Of course no one is interested in watching you quietly sit through a 2.5 hour video. They're here to be entertained. It's your JOB to keep reacting and arguing with the video. It does mean you can't do a proper job of engaging with video essays, though.
While also calling him a racist and insulting his analytics of his channel and style of content. That isnt true defense, what that is in actuality is just replacement of one attack for another. Saying someone is "not that bad" is not saying said people are a "good thing" because you are still implying wrong with them.
@@COrraThereal0ne Firstly you are leaving a lot of details out of context, and secondly saying the word alone doesnt make someone racist. Again... full context matters with use, intent, purpose, etc.
Man, I sure hope people "defend" you how FD defended Vaush. If you genuinely think it's a good way to talk about people and defend them, try it yourself. Find some weird shit your friends said, out of context, flash it in people's face, and then say "I don't personally think he's a bad guy though". Go even further, find other people youve heard called horrible things, and in the same breath defend all three, equating their actions as remotely similar. "Sarcasticron may be a holier than though fuckwit, who watches kids in the bathroom and smells their feet, but that's just stuff other people said about them. I don't believe it personally, and don't think you should either, without evidence like this poorly edited photo of them smelling a little girls toes"
Vaush should add a full context clip debunking part to his website, I remember ages ago finding one of the old streams someone clipped from to get the context and maybe I'm wrong but I think making the context more easily available would be best, a lot of those old streams are unlisted and difficult to find whilst the out of context clips are absolutely everywhere
12:40 Vaush, this is distressing news. I must offer my condolences that your daily videos barely get half of your subs as views, and I must say I will miss your dying channel when it inevitably vanishes within a week or two. Seriously how can FD get these numbers so wrong? You know he studies his own analytics. That's objectively a good ratio, I hear a third being often quoted as pretty good.
F.D. in this makes good points about how Canceling need more organized structure. When is someone allowed to be uncancled? How many years do we persist in dunking on these people? When are they forgiven? And for many, if they don't accept the critique, those with power and money will just return with their next project, and have learned nothing. Than he frames the DJ Muel and Flowers incidents crooked, and all of that and other shit is things I'd argue with him about
Look, you can't have other people starting drama, and then claim the targets of that drama are also starting drama if they talk about it. If that were the case, then you'd have assholes being assholes 24/7 without anyone calling them on it. I've watched his video, and I think he did a good job pointing out instances of people doing nothing wrong - but then being attacked for their innocuous statements. He even defends Vaush in a large portion of the video, as a victim of unwarranted drama. So all the people here going nuts over FDs video without actually watching it need to relax. Not saying I agree with everything in it, but for the most part it's actually good.
I watched it too, but that defending Vaush part is about 15 minutes right after he spent almost an hour attacking Vaush and Xanderhal. That's the problem with it--FD is either a blatant hypocrite or has a comically low level of self-awareness. Whatever good he meant is completely negated by the rest of it.
@WarlordofBritannia Come on man, that's an exaggeration. First, don't lump Xanderhal and Vaush together. They're 2 different people. Speaking solely about Vaush, he did call him out for a few things - some of which I agree with, some of which I don't - but it wasn't an hour long solely about Vaush. Second, regarding Xanderhal, again - yes, he called out some things about him. And again, some of which I agree with, and some of which I don't. I personally don't like Xanderhal that much. Doesn't make the abuse he suffer okay though. But saying all of FDs other points about the other people he interviewed being canceled for no fucking reason, are undone because a couple of his points are bad - is just ridiculously close minded, and is what leads to that kind of canceling in the first place. If all the good you do is invalidated by the single evil you do, then no one is safe. It's a fucked up way to look at people.
@@RubedoURTV666 I think his showcasing actual cases of unfair cancellation actually makes it worse; he’s equating Vaush to the people that drove Lindsay Ellis off the Internet. Plus, the timing isn’t an exaggeration. I literally took record of how long each segment was-something like from 38 minutes in to about the hour and a half mark was spent attacking Vaush and Xanderhal, then Vaush got 10-15 minutes of mild defending.
I hate that vaush missed the point of some of FDs arguments but Can't blame him when FDs can't even take the effort to research the shit he said about Vaush.
I still cannot believe that the Professor Flowers debate is controversial still today. I saw it completely unbiased from the opinion that it would generate and I reached basically the same conclusions as Vaush, because they were obvious, and then I turn around, and half of the left in TH-cam seems to be trying to gas light me about what PF said and implied.
Sadly this is because of 2 reasons, one is that PF was talking to Vaush and because Vaush is white. If PF would have talked to someone like Shark3zero, alot more people would call her out on her bullshit and toxic behavior. This is why most people believe that her conversation with Keem was worse. Oh and some people just love to white knight, even people like Professor Sunday and that bit him in the ass later
I want to like FD, he gave me a good grasp on some topics. But he keeps releasing some shit I can't stand or defend. But as I heard someone say on twitter, he's changing slowly. So maybe he will be better in a year or two.
I dunno man, first he defends Samsen, then he goes after V and crew using out of context clips while defending PF, talks to Shark, walks some of that back, then doubles down on it later, then defends DJMuel, then puts out this dumpster fire where he doubles down on all of the same sh*t and finally admits to never having watched all of the PF convo while demonstrating he has never sought context for the clip that people have told him are out of context. Dude is putting on an air of respectability while he keeps finding new ways to demonstrate willful ignorance, favoritism and an unwillingness to be self critical. I don't know what other people are seeing but I'm seeing someone who is merrily digging their hole deeper and deeper.
@@rainbowkrampus well I just (want to) like him. I think that might be my bias. But you are right. Normally I would call this person ignorant and go on with my life. Let's just hope he gets better.
This whole thing is so dumb. I became a fan of FD when he talked about Bo Burnham and Inside. He started talking about black issues and black media in a way that I thought was really good and unique. But this whole descent into drama is so stupid. I legit can't tell if he's as deranged as the Twitter wokescolds that take the clips at face value uncritically or if he does this in bad faith. He's not that dumb! I watched the entire video after Vaush covered these parts of it on stream. It's really a larger denouncement of drama and cancellations on the left, wrapped up in a video going over drama and attacking Vaush and Xan, and still standing up for dj muel. I lost all the respect I had left for FD here. Easiest unsub of my life.
Honestly I kind of have to assume he is being malicious in his refusal to watch the Professor Flowers debate/Muel hit piece, because too much of his content is well reasoned and good for me to believe he is this dumb. Multiple people tried to respectfully reach out on the latter (Merrick specifically tried so he must have had to read through her DM to contact her for this), so it's really infuriating for him to pretend that the only issue Muel got blasted for is "bringing up the messy break up." It's just too damn convenient and reeks of his bias preventing him from doing the barest minimum of decent analysis.
I just don't the "Don't engage" rethoric. Sure you can clip someone out of context, but you don't need to watch a 3 hour video to respond to a singular point that gets brought up. There is no way that it takes someone 3 hours to talk about a single specific point, and there is no way that, that singular point gets reframed in such a way to significantly alter it's original meaning up to a point where your critique becomes invalid. Also funny that this critique comes in defence of people who clearly haven't watched a single minute of whoever they happen to be critiquing themselves!
Sure you could say that it is comparable to not reading an entire book before engaging with the points made in a specific paragraph or chapter. But a word in a sentence!? That's just hyperbole. I'm just saying, he made multiple points throughout the video. He didn't talk about a singular super specific point for 3 hours straight. Sure there was an overarching theme. You can take statements that are only loosely connect and address them separately. Heck sometimes noticing a faulty assumption in an early statement could make the whole argument fall apart. If the argument relies on the statement being correct. Obviously if, someone makes a broad statement and they follow that up with caveats you shouldn't jump the gun. But I am talking about statements that stand alone, even if they are part of an overarching narrative.
FD making a 2.5 hour long video about how much he hates drama has the same energy as Kat Blaque writing a 10k work essay about how she doesn't care about Vowsh.
What was in that anyway?
@@asherroodcreel640 words
@@radicaldradcliffe4201 I sure hope they meant anything! /s
@@radicaldradcliffe4201 AI generated rap
Cry about it
Fuck it. I agree with Vaush. Signifier likes to pretend he's above it all. If he doesn't wanna be in entanglements with other people on YT, then stop name dropping them in your content.
I gave FD a chance and watched a lot of his content, I got pretty fed up with it long before he got tangled in drama with anyone. He's just not a very reasonable guy and he says weird stuff unprompted.
I mean... that's literally the terminally online left.
Dude said the left has a drama problem by making a 2 hour drama video.
His criticism of vaush is not just “drama” it’s the piss poor understanding these white content creators of black political thought. To a audience is majority white and ignorant to these ideals as well. Vaush does this chronically talking about black political thought and then cries foul when black people call him out for it.
@@ShockDropped explain it. Just explain what he isn't understanding. Please.
The one thing FD did in this video which I respected was that he just straight up admitted he chose a side of these arguments based entirely off his in-group bias
For what it's worth, even though I didn't agree with a good amount of what he said in this video, I feel like a lot of people are being *very* uncharitable towards what he was actually saying, and the goal of the video.
I'll admit it felt very... odd, and honestly out of character, for him to just blatantly state that he hated Xanderhal in particular, but the actual situation and mechanics he was talking about, and the problems, were very legitimate. Not that the conversation hasn't been had before (see Contrapoints, who he did refer to explicitly), but that was even more about cancellation in particular rather than the general "stir the pot for money" thing.
And even though you could make a very clear argument that this is *also* that, at least he was very much willing to extend some understanding and sympathy for how those people who he, in his own words, doesn't like, also get treated like shit when they shouldn't and *do* do right by a lot of people, and often. Xan didn't give him that.
Also, I'm sorry, but he was just right about the professor flowers thing, full stop. There's having a discussion/disagreement around principles of black nationalism, sure, but that whole situation was just foul, and at this point I think everyone's aware of that.
@@SaberToothPortilla yeah, the situation with PF was foul, but not for anything Vaush did. She came on stream, said a bunch of wild dumb shit, and then when she got called out for it by a bunch of people she doubled and tripled down. That's how it works being someone who wants to be a public figure, and FD never substantiated a single point with evidence. He just gestured and the idea that there was unwarranted harassment and left it at that.
Same with all the shit with Mule, he just repeated Mule's side of the story uncritically, and then gestured vaguely at the idea that people were upset at Mule for "being too toxic" instead of, you know, being a fucking liar.
Again, the only thing I respected about that video was the fact that he just admitted his opinions were based entirely on being part of one clique fighting with everyone who said anything bad about his clique without caring about the truth. At least that's honest.
Oh, and I've watched all of FDs previous videos too and considered myself a big fan, so this isn't me coming in just to be mad at him. I like FD, but this whole situation has made me seriously doubt his judgment when it comes to some issues
@@nickwilson7241 I've watched most of the PF debate, and I think PF did argue her thoughts badly, but I do give that it was Vaush that brought up white genocide, not her. I think, given the opportunity, I would be willing to hear her thoughts on black nationalism on her terms where she's not arguing against a topic she wasn't talking about.
I also am kind of mixed on the FD/Muel thing, on one hand, he did call Muel out in his video, buuut on the other I still didn't appreciate how he lowballed what Muel did, and for all the sympathy FD extended to Vaush and Xan in his video, I feel like he should've said Muel lied about and made shitty jokes about a victim of abuse, full stop.
@@gregvs.theworld451 yeah, my issue with the Xan stuff is that FD (and a lot of other people in the left tube space) are trying to spin that as people were mad cause Mule was being mean, and then use that as a way to run cover for all the straight up lies he said that had nothing to do with the abuse apologia he did on top of that. It's a way for them to basically double down on the lies by going, "it's still not an excuse for being mean" as if the meanness was the primary problem instead of the lies
@@gregvs.theworld451 exactly. PF is obviously smart enough to know that genocide = more than just literally killing people, and thus asking her thoughts on genocide are also asking her thoughts re: "ethnostate as cultural genocide." but honestly Vaush didn't make that clear and his debate style is intimidating as fuck. similar to the way Vaush dressed down Noah, it doesn't even mean all Noah's points were wrong, just that Vaush is the master debater in the moment. he was able to surprise attack people like PF and Noah, in a way that may have made them mischaracterize their own beliefs and arguments. that is a weak point of the debate format in general.
Never ending leftist infighting, over the least important shit imaginable. I wish we could just actually work together towards an even slightly better world.
This is the reason we’ll never have free healthcare or workers rights ☠️
This is nothing new. Life of Brian made fun of this in 1979. A lot of things change but leftists infighting is not one.
Will never happen. Leftist infighting is inevitable and will always stall progress. As a chud I love to see it. Keep infighting guys!
Leftists have been infighting since the Spanish Civil War
If only, king, if only
Frankly, after he played defence for DJ Muel, I lost any and all respect or charitably for FD. Shame, but when you'll defend that degree of clear abuse just because you don't like a live-streamer, I cannot trust a single word that comes out of your mouth.
Yea when FD did that I just went: oh hell no.
And dropped him like a hot potato. Just. Gross.
Yet FD gives a more balanced perspective in this video
@@sophiesong8937 Then maybe he should’ve provided his “more balanced perspective” before defending a complete piece of shit
@@sophiesong8937 if you defend someone who is on the side of an abuser who tried to pin the blame on the victim?
Im sorry but not. You have lost my respect
He can take his balanced take and shove off until he realises what he did
@@sophiesong8937 I do not care in the slightest. There's no 'Balanced perspective' on abuse, he failed to recognize that, and if he can't recognize that, again, I do not care, or believe that he's the one capable of doing it with that, or anything else. I don't trust him.
This is the issue when it comes to these kinds of people and lying.
The left still doesn't understand that "pointing out en masse you're wrong" and "sending threats and insults" are not the same thing. Ugh. It'd be like "Yo, your shoes are dirty and you tragged in mud, I don't appreciate that, could you be a little more considerate here?" being equated to, "Your shoes are fugly and I'm gonna cut your friggin feet off so you never get a chance to wear any ugly shoes ever again!" Like...those aren't the same.
It comes from the same mindset that leads to "I like pancakes" "Oh, so you hate waffles?"
Opinions and stances have nuance. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that their stance is the most extreme opposite of yours.
@@celestine5231 It's also where that "my detractors simply misunderstand my point, if only I explain *harder* they'll get it and finally come around to agreeing with me wholesale" mentality comes from. I could understand what you're saying better than you do, that doesn't mean I have to agree.
@@kylegonewild Also: "Nobody *actually* disagrees with my analysis, all my critics are liars who secretly think I'm right."
And, yes, it can be extremely tiresome and even, downright exhausting to be pestered by a hundred sealions or two-hundred autistic people over some detail--and, yes, I even think there's a point at which that pestering can be considered genuine harassment. Even so, it's dishonest and counterproductive to completely fail to differentiate between pestering and insults or threats.
You don't need to send threats and insults in order to engage in harassment 🙄You all make me feel embarrassed that I was a part of this community
I hate how FD and crew can just put out hit piece after hit piece on Vaush and Xanderhal and no one cares but if one of them responds to the videos to defend themselves, than somehow they are the ones being divisive. It just makes no sense to me.
“Vaush fans harassed me after I accused him of p*dophilia and called them p*dophile defenders! How does he get away with this?”
It's basic tribalism. It's totally fine to isolate and hate on the "other". That's normal. Though getting attacked is getting attacked.
They just fail to realize they are thinking with their feelings just like we make fun of conservatives for. Failures of human beings, all of them. The Monkey Brain has won the puberty fight. (if they've even gone through puberty, yet)
@@Eveliane I mean, there is proof and it's online.
@@Eveliane When he says sus shit get he gets called out. Being a a vaush fan you should love that
@@My_name_is- citation - *pictured crackpipe*
It's weird how these people never bring up Heem's convo with PF. It was the same exact dialogue tree but Heem is nice so it's not a "debate" it's a conversation.
Bingo
And that's also when she was a bit more frank about her positions...
One thing that irks me is the idea that Black people from the US could easily go to an African country and feel right at home. My family is from the Caribbean. They came here when they were teenagers. And even THEY who spent their childhood on the island could never reintegrate into their old homeland. As a Black person whose parents are from another country, it irks me when Black Americans whose history is cemented in this country think all of our cultures could seamlessly blend into one another. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. Side note, we always talk about how we're not a monolith, but in the meantime, I'm not allowed to have disagreements with other leftists about how we should interact with non-Black people.
Basically the history of Liberia in the 19th century.
weird take
Where did anyone argue that?
@@Serpillard
Don’t forget the part where the ethnic conflicts with the locals eventually ended in the African-Americans borderline enslaving the Africans at rubber plantations for the next century and a half.
@@Theyungcity23 professor Flowers with her "africa for the blacks America for the whites" speech.
He's just doing the liberal "I am a neutral unbiased arbiter above the conflict" schtick but with essay aesthetics.
Liberals... smh my head
Bingo
No liberal does the neutral schtick. By liberal you mean right wingers who call themselves centrists, not actual libs.
Liberalism with essayist characteristics.
Getting weird Destiny vibes from him even though he would never associate himself.
19:53 My man is really conflating Lindsay Ellis getting bullied off of TH-cam for stating the fact that a lot of children's entertainment is derivative of ATLA with DJ Muel saying a guy who was abused by his mum and gf has mummy issues and just needs to have make-up sex.
Whether it's dishonesty or stupidity, no one should be taking this guy seriously.
The worst part is, I personally feel like FD Signifier's overall point about the productivity of drama is pretty agreeable. The problem is that, intentional or not, he ends up engaging in the exact sort of unproductive shit-flinging that he accuses debate bro personalities of doing.
Additionally, equivocating the backlash DJ Muel got with what happened to Lindsay Ellis feels really distasteful.
Him talking about the drama is a bare bone’s understanding of his bigger issue with white leftists. They claim to be for the breaking down of systems that suppressed marginalized groups, and say shit that contradicts it all the time.
-the obsession with fringe black groups (hoteps/NOI/kanye)
-claiming black people are more homophobic then whites
-characterizing black folks with racist stereotypes and no historical understanding of how they became
-they speak confidently on black political issues with no understanding, get checked about it then get mad they get checked about it.
How is that productive to unifying ALL LEFTIST if one group is telling the other to stop speaking ignorantly on the other due to the impact it creates
@@ShockDropped yes we get it. Black people have never done anything wrong at any point and can never do anything bad and every time a leftist criticize a black persona for any reason it is literally just cause they are racist. We get it.
@@pogo8050 your missing the point, and creating a argument I’ve never said.
@@ShockDropped that is the argument you’re making.
I love many of them, but the video essayists are the primary ones who do this as opposed to the opposite. It would be interesting if they would just actually reach out and talk instead of making 1-2 hour long videos.
I mean we’ve already seen what happens when they reach out and talk, like Noah with Vaush and FD with Shark. They will just walk back most if not all of what they said in a pseudo to full on hit piece video they made.
@@jo0rd73 and then make *another* hit piece immediately afterwards
@@jo0rd73 Now, i actually did enjoy FD's conversation with Shark MUCH more than what Noah did, but I wish he showed that same courtesy to others in that space. Especially for those he claim that he doesn't like. For someone who makes many videos about coming together, he and others like him don't really make a lot of effort to reach out to said individuals.
To be fair, this isn't a video essay. It's an editorial.
@@comandantegorrion7271 Yep that’s a likely outcome too
To say DJ Mule isn't that bad of a guy while talking about debate bros. He isn't even a debate bro, and DJ explicitly said he did what he did for money. That is the definition of grifter. To play defense for that is wild. Like where are your priorities? Someone could make a video saying that they are lying to make money. As long as they aren't going after FD, FD wouldn't mind.
Nah he's just saying all the people Vaush has had beef witn aren't bad, he wasn't trying to call *them* debate bros
@@excalibur2772 yeah he said they weren't monsters. Like what a revelation dude. They are human too. Im 14 and just discovered empathy.
@Virgil Wasn't defending FD just clarifying
@@excalibur2772 no worries that wasn't directed to you, just FD.
@@BiPolarUrsus yeah you’re definitely 14
Decent left-wing video essayists are getting harder and harder to come by when they all have ended up creating drama with streamers because they think streamers create drama. At this rate Jessie Gender is the only left video essayist I look forward to seeing videos from.
Does contrapoints count
What about hbomb?
Shaun videos are still good.
If you have 20 people saying the same thing....
@@DrJellyFanguzzz argument from population
Noah lies. Makes an entire video and a response based on demonstrable falsehoods.
Gets a “there, there” from a ton of people like FD Signifier.
It’s frustrating the support behind the bloke.
The fact that he took the video down when drama was at it's peak and later when things cooled down quietly put it back up, fucking coward. I looked up the video A Practical Guide to Leftist Content (may not be exact title) the first video that I discovered him from and the one that REALLY blew him up where his coverage of Vaush was very much positive, how things have changed.
Gotta love lunch table politics!
At least Noah has moved on with his life. So many of these other jokers won't stop talking about how Vaush was mean to Professor Flowers that one time.
@@markusa5293
Is that cowardice or trying to do the right thing by not pouring oil on the fire? I know nothing about the situation btw
@@warlordofbritannia If the goal was no oil to the fire then he would've left the video unlisted.
The thing that annoys me to no end about this is that there are actually plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Vaush, yet this ultimately comes back to FD’s inability to admit that he was wrong about something. I’m never taking anyone seriously who thinks it’s ok to downplay and lie about someone’s abuse just because they don’t like them. Merrick put it best, either you have morals or you don’t and FD can’t even say “My bad I messed up”.
The one nice thing was that he admits he only watched the first half of the PF convo.
It's the second half where she really starts committing to stuff (plus that weird section where it becomes a talk therapy session for her?)
Dude is unwilling to engage with anything that might undermine his position. He's basically holding onto a god belief that he can't justify only in this case his god is "Vaush Bad".
Yep, I'm a fan of Vaush,but I'm a critical fan and he does have some problems. But I really don't see what other people get out of FD Signifier. He's just long-winded. He'll mention some history and he'll mention some academic principles, but in the end doesn't really make good points. Everything's padded with 3 hours of Umms, ahhs, and "Oh, we're going to get to that.."
@@VagabondTE I'm curious, I'm not a cause fan but watch him from time to time, what could be legitimate criticism towards him?
merrick never misses
@@joseantoniovargas6548 His take on the Evangelion Rebuild series is pretty bad.
At this point i think FD basically just gets the benefit of the doubt from everyone because he has this air of being calm and reasonable while spouting absolute nonsense.
Its been a while since ive watched him but his early videos seemed to be better argued and presented.
His problem really is the refusal to watch the people he's criticising. So just talking out his ass from second hand info
Also because he’s black. There’s that.
I think you don’t give him the benefit of the doubt because he’s black and all Vaush fans are chauvinists
@@kharris3352 nah fd signifier makes good point (and some amazing ones to)
Everyone is biased against people they disagree with. Fd is against debate bros but doesnt inform his views with anything but second hand info. Its bad analysis.
@@benfataiare you fucking serious? Lol
"Extra long drama video about drama being bad" is my favorite genre at this point
please please please i need 24 hour "debatebro bad" video, it will crash the internet and be talked for generations next to come
Your comment reads like the people who were pissed off about Anita Sarkeesian. You just hate FD because he’s black and you’re racist. It’s really not that complicated
How exactly is it a drama video?
It’s not really a drama video
@@omaralfageeh4636 There is no war in Ba Sing Sai. Just saying something doesn't make it true, it's a video fundamentally about drama.
watching him literally say "DJ Muel did a bag thing" showing DJ Muel go "yeah i was as evil as possible idgaf" and then go "DJ Muel is a good person" really is all you need to see
"Cancelling someone is only bad when it happens to someone I like" is more or less the message; FD is advocating for more drama...in an anti-drama video where he spends 2 hours talking about drama he has with Vaush and Xanderhal.
The level of self-obliviousness is astounding.
Wrong. He admitted numerous times that Muel did toxic shit with his video on Xanderhal, but he believes overall that DJ Muel was on the side of right overall. Good people can do bad shit. Bad people can do good shit. This is reality.
@@mr.hidden9242 "Toxic Shit"
Weird way to say he was running apologia for Xans abuser and even trying to say it was Xans fault. Fuck ya
@@mr.hidden9242 I don't think he was going after Xanderhal for any other reason than he felt like he has to defend his friends. One of which he does a podcast with and has a history of saying really indefensible racist and biphobic stuff consistently. It also felt like projecting and like he just wanted to dunk on a young streamer. Funny how he didn't dunk on vaush in the most personal way possible
@@mr.hidden9242 *Wrong. He admitted numerous times that Muel did toxic shit with his video on Xanderhal,*
Yeah no, he didn’t, he glossed over the Toxic shit and never mentioned it, what he said was
“IF Muel did this, then it still doesn't excuse people attacking him or trying to cancel him”
he at no point talked about the abusive and disgusting shit Muel did that almost every other youtuber, essayist and debater EXCEPT for FD. and his pack like Thoughslime, Bad Bunny/Kira chan and etc (who just so happen to be friends with Muel and follow each other in the same circle),
called out.
The "FD" stands for "fucking dishonest"
I trust F.D Signifier being "dishonest" than the cheeto dust finger Vaush saying CP should be legal.
@@UmQasaann When did he say that?
Is it cool to call this a grift when video essayists constantly do the 'I'm not instigating any drama but let me make this video about something that happened literally months ago and directly critique people I could just engage directly with but won't because I'm too scared.' thing?
Gotta juice the numbers somehow.
Yeah, it basically is.
I wish people would either admit they're not opposed to drama *or* actually contribute something that promises to help quell the drama. I grow weary of people straddling the fence by claiming to loathe drama while actively stirring the pot--but, that's human nature for you, and I'm probably not wholly innocent, either!
@@dinosaysrawr It's worse because it feels like the vast majority of the Drama video essayists are involved in when it comes to calling out 'debate bros' is instigated *By them* but daring to respond apparently makes you the asshole.
@@ibringit987 , that's my read, too. I could just be biased, but it seems to me like an essayist will do a 2-hour video calling out Vaush, Xanderhal, Keffals, Demon Mama, Hasan, and then Vaush again for good measure; the streamers will respond to the video and call the essayist a liar, a tankie, a smoothbrain, or an asshat; and the streamer will be derided for "causing drama." Hate to sound Tumblry, but that's frankly kind of abusive and gaslighty, n'est-ce pas?
Correct me if I have blind spots, but while I can certainly think of examples of streamers referring back to previous drama or remarking that they think so-and-so is a scumbag, I can't recall any instance of a streamer deciding to do a deep-dive éxpose on a video essayist with whom they've never engaged. (I can think of times streamers have covered other streamers, though, and times when they've covered tankies, fascists, and random lolcows, but that's not the same thing.)
It's also shitty that essayists I normally respect and like haven't been able to resist the honeypot, and the resulting drama has usually served to make them look really bad. It just doesn't seem worth it to me.
@@dinosaysrawr It could be a bias thing or just a 'sample size' kind of thing like we're following streamers who just *don't* behave this way but idk. It certainly feels like whenever stuff like this bubbles up, It's usually because a video essayist has decided to take the brave position of 'Debate bros bad' and have decided to film a video in front of their audience who will give zero pushback on any claims because they already hate all the people who are going to be covered.
I love when he defended DJ Mule's video trying to cancel Xanderhal, then admitted he didn't actually watch it, and then slammed Xanderhal for apparently trying to cancel DJ Mule...by defending himself against Mule's attempt to cancel him.
Incredible
Calmness and confidence are really a good substitute for a brain if you're a leftist video essayist.
While he was working on and prepping this meaningless husk of a video, people like Conure were covering anti-trans legislation in Oklahoma that seeks to prevent *adults* up to age 26 from receiving affirming care. Two and a half hours bloviating about the exact thing you're doing. It's so fucking frustrating how seriously he takes his freshmen level understanding of anything and tries to apply it to inane bullshit and petty mudslinging.
Edit: I didn't even realize it when I first saw canoe covering it, but I get why the age they chose is 26. Because that's how long you can stay on your parent/guardian's health insurance when you attending college and whatnot after high school.
Yo this canoe person sounds like they're pretty based and have good fashion sense 🤔
not to mention he always acts like he's above other leftists, meanwhile he associates with open shitbags like flowers and mule, lol
Conure? I would definately subscribe to that channel if I'm not and listen to their unfailingly based takes and also donate to them instead of Faush Libaugh, the CEO of Racism and COO of Misogyny.
i get what you mean, but i also think that calling the FD video "2.5 hours of bloviating" is a little unfair. i've watched some of it and i can see, from FD's perspective, why he felt the need to make it.
like, even if he's wrong, he genuinely feels that this element of leftism is bad and harasses people. he talked more about Prof. Flowers and Vaush, and in his view, Prof. Flowers having this negative spotlight and becoming suicidal because of it, was actively the fault of debate bro culture and Twitter culture, and he felt the need to speak on that.
FWIW, i actually mostly disagree with FD's take, because, while i obviously don't wish for anyone to be suicidal, there's also semi-obvious point that pretty much every online leftist is going to have the same problems whenever they make a mistake, because Twitter be crazy. so saying "y'all made Prof. Flowers suicidal" is in that sense a subjective point.
but he also rehashed with her some points about Land Back vs. ethnostate, some elaborations on various types of black nationalism, etc. i personally learned some stuff from FD's video and what i've seen so far.
so, wtf is the point of my own rambling? i guess that these "2.5 hour long videos on drama" shouldn't just be dismissed as "wow you made a drama video about hating drama?"
rather, they're a symptom of, as you said, "petty mudslinging" on the left that can't be blamed solely on either "debate bros" or "video essayists"...to the extent that distinction even matters.
it may all seem pointless to talk about the "drama," compared to real issues, and, yeah, it probably is. but, the reason people keep coming back to what seems like their own personal drama bullshit, is because THEY see it as a major detriment to leftist solidarity and unity.
"You're lucky we're looking for equality and not revenge." - Kinda sorta getting the vibe that she's actually out for revenge and doesn't have the courage to outright say it.
More like she knows she can't say that stuff or she will put off a whole lot of people.
Honestly this made me lose all the respect for FD I had when he didn't immediately call that out for what it was and shut her BS down.
Why should I feel lucky for avoiding revenge for something I didn't do? Seems like that should be the norm
@@sub-harmonik it's hatred with revenge as it's justification at the end of the day. It's so blatantly obvious it makes me suspicious of FDs views on land back and white deportation are....
No thats just a basic statement of fact. If all of the colonized people *actually* wanted revenge, it would mean you were literally living in the world white supremacists try to convince you you are. So yes, you *should* be glad that the actual conversations that go on among colonized peoples are geard towards liberation and equality rather than revenge.
@@sub-harmonik Really does imply the revenge is justified in her mind, and that she’d be fine with it if more people agreed they wanted to take revenge.
FD defends an abuser like DJmuel. He has no grounds to criticize you Vaush.
WHY DON YOU HAGE MASTCACE
Vaush is an abuser as well. Remember the Poppy sexual harassment.
He’s not criticizing Vaush. That’s not what the video was about
Nah, you dont understand. Djmuel is a video essayist, and whatever he puts in his 1.5 hour bad faith video is irrelevant. It's the "unprovoked" response (i mean harassment) to his video that matters. Oh and the tweets after the fact where FD and djmuel continue to support djmuels abuser apologia, also not important. Whats important is that i dont like vaush
He's also repeatedly made googly eyes at Destiny, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like yeah, take up for the dude that laughed in the face of SA survivors and told them it was their fault. Between that and playing defense for Flowers just makes me feel ill, and I was a fairly big Fiq fan with his earlier vids on hip hop and culture in general, being what I grew up with and around.
I just... bleh. The levels of performance and hollow crap is so tiresome.
I got two hours in. It was good for 40 minutes and then FD dove straight into being Muel's PR manager. He does a careful dance of giving Debatebros a fair shake while conveniently placing all his buddies in the best light and demonizing the remainder. He bends over backwards to gloss over the details of his friends' controversies while reaching a mile to make statements like "Vaush thinks Dubois is ideologically the same as the Timothy McVeigh."
I tapped out, but with less than 30 minutes left in the video, he made zero mention of Kirachats/badbunny and even helped Muel in painting his Xan video as a hit piece made to take heat off of Prof. Flowers... and not the mutual friend who has a history of calling people N words and showing bald faced bigotry or Sophie the Xan Sex Cult rumor spreader. Both individuals are just deleted from his narrative.
That doesn't make sense. Nobody was talking about professor flowers when Muel's video dropped. At all. Everyone had already moved on.
the fact this comment is so well written by comparison to all the dumb sht I see from FD fans here and that it concludes the exact same thing I did is really validating.
@@SM-BSW The "Vaush bad" lefties talk about it non-stop
It's so funny when people show an extended clip of Vaush making the most reasonable, objectively correct statement you've ever heard in your life, and then act as though the clip is self-explanatory in showing how much of a terrible person Vaush is
All I can picture is the Spongebob scene of him showing Patrick all the hidden dirty diapers and going "HMMMMM?!?" but with out of context clip chimped segments behind the walls and in a pile out back.
It's only because Vaush makes in-fighters confused.
unironically this
Did you watch fds video cause looked pretty bad
some people can't stand being wrong...
Reminder that DJMuel, FD Signifier, Thought Slime ect are all 30+ years old and have collectively made numerous callouts and hitpieces against Xanderhal, a 23 year old, for being...slightly edgy. Further reminder that this is incredibly weird behavior
Yknow, I didn't think about the generational gap but that's a valid point
(Vaush is like 27-28 right?)
Vaush is somewhere around 28-29 iirc. And DemonMama is in her early 30s, but the Thought Slime clique always forget she exists, because then they can't frame "debate bros" as all being cis dudes.
Edit: was meant to be a reply to @nicolasnamed
Leaves me conflicted. FD is the whole reason I'm part of this part of TH-cam. He really got me to think more critically about my issues (black issues) as they pertain to treating others well. I wish he'd lay off vaush. Vaush also has helped me learn a lot more about LGBTQ issues. Why can't both of these people be part of the same scene? I don't get it. I also likd xanderhal, conure and shark. I learn from everyone. I feel zero inclination towards this drama. Without this community I'd still be low-key redpilled.
I absolutely agree. I wish this drama never happened. But Vaush and the others have to keep defending themselves from stupid videos like these all the time. I wish we could just stop
FD actually puts effort into his content thinks critically and vaush just likes reacting to cringe bait and
That’s the point of FD’s video…
@@daddysnowflake8186 if you're spending half a year to make one six hour video, you better put in effort.
They aren't the same tribe. During this video, F.D talked about how he went to bat for his group and picked a side, and how Merrick is loyal to Xan and Vaush because they were her tribe.
The thing about how politics are organized by the Right and Left is the Right have a uniform desire for strong all encompassing ideology. The Right deals in ideals, in perfect worlds, absolute goals to meet. They will mix and match oppressions and excuses for why the world is shitty and let it all blend together. The Right fights over power. Rarely is it over belief. Their beliefs are think less, feel more, and act on intuitive dumbsss instinct.
The Left are what is Left of those people who fight with or are hurt by the Right. But they aren't one group. There all the groups the Right doesn't want. There is no unified Left. There are border realms of sub cultures that band together for alliance against the Right, but they are as different nations.
High King Vaush of the Debate Bros is not speaking the same cultural language as wise Sage F.D. Signifer of the Video Essyists. They have different ideas on art, on how they should speak, on what words they say, on what kind of tone is allowed and not allowed. The Debate Bro kings like Sharkthree zero and the queens like Keffals are opposed to the Video Essay witches like Thoughtslime and Sophia from Mars. How they frame issues, what tactics the use, how they believe in those tactics? These are sites of political conflict.
There is no Left. There is what is Left when you take away the Right, and the result are different tribal factions of different identities battling to survive and cultivate their culture and their beliefs and their principles, but they aren't the same side.
A common enemy doesn't create fellowship. It creates military alliance without merging groups.
Weird for FD to say 75% of Vaush's community checked out after Prof Flowers, but that was when I found Vaush for the first time because it blew up so much lol
That's not what FD said, in fact he was specifically talking about people outside of Vaushea community
FD would've instantly won my respect if he'd said "Vaush may be attracted to horses, but he's not racist"
Instead he said the opposite, a statement that is objectively incorrect.
@Mythic southern drawl lol honey you have never been to the South clearly. It was 5am when Vaush streamed with BJG, your not gonna speak as crisply either.
Vaush isn't attracted to horses. He wants to be the horse. Stop spreading misinfo
The main problem I had is when it came to DJ Muel he didn't put him to the fire like he should have like he has for the hate boner that he has for Vaush and Xan. Can we also point out that F.D. is not even watching all these videos/clips that he is making content about to get the full context for his own work?
That is the most charitable interpretation of this situation you can have. FD either watched the clips or didn’t, knowing full well there was the context, and ignored it. Both show a disregard for honesty.
Yes, it's absolutely infuriating how someone can be so transparently dishonest. "I've never seen this video, but I'm going to assert a completely made up version of what happened and use it to accuse Vaush of being racist somehow." I also find it fascinating how FD Signifier insists on spreading the same conspiracy theories about Vaush as the average neo-Nazi hater but he's too concerned about his AdSense revenue on his disgusting drama video to even actually say what the accusation is for fear of being demonetized. Just pure scumbag behaviour all around.
He actually admits in the video that he didn’t even watch all of djmuel’s hitpiece on Xanderhal.
He’s laughably bad at due diligence.
@@finitecrystal I feel confident that he's seen the out of context clips that circulate around Twitter, and the first 90 minutes of the Ms. Flowers debate, and that's it
💯it's pathetic. It's the same thing DJ Mule and Noah Samsung admitted, they're too lazy to do research. You can tell their "research" is just collecting twitter clips.
FD Signifier is friends with DJ Muel. This isn’t politics, this is a waste of time equivalent to locker room gossip
I used to be a HUGE fan of FD, but a lot of his recent behavior is… disappointing to say the least.
I’m still holding out hope that he eventually becomes more open minded about this stuff, but I dunno if that’s realistic or not at this point.
idk, him backing up dj muel makes it hard for me to believe he's capable of arguing much of anything in good faith
@@Romanticoutlaw Yeah, that’s the big one. Like how can he both sides that when Eggman was so clearly in the wrong?
white people can’t take it when black content creators criticize their heroes. fd isn’t scared of white leftists who want to foster dangerous communities and so he stands up to them. I’m glad people like you who will defend and ally with white supremacists if it allows you to get one over on black or trans leftists are leaving the community, so it can be safer for the rest of us.
@@combatwomb1 Eggman lol
yeah, i remember first getting into him really early into his essay stuff, and he seemed pretty cool, but platforming (i'm assuming mule and flowers are relatively small figures, as i first heard about them via him and vaush) and defending ppl like dr eggman and professor fuckwad is beyond insane, i legitimately have no idea how he can defend these people, brush their behavior off like it's nothing, and then get defensive when people call him out on it?!?!?!?!! major spineless bitch behavior
Just because I got annoyed with how often Vaush was told "just watch the video," I went and found it. 40 minutes in and it seems like FD is becoming aware of wokescolds, carving out an idea that problematic figures are still people who are capable of redemption, and appears to be prepping for calling Vaush, Xan, Demonmama (basically anyone who made a video calling out DJ Muel for his ass video) a wokescold...
So yeah... those people are idiots, but I do wish Vaush would have watched the whole video because HOW THE FUCK CAN FD BE THIS DENSE? VDS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A MEME.
...yeah... if anyone wants to get "to the point" of FDs video it's when at the 38 minute mark, right before he brings on DJ Muel and likens his "cancelation" for that 2 hour video on Xan similarly to Hasan being "cancelled" for buying a house. This is absolutely not a "holistic thing" when FD accuses breadtube of being obsessed with drama; using wokescolds on Twitter as a premise and the response to DJ Muel as an example.
Seriously, it makes sense FD worked as a professor in education because this grown ass man saw someone essentially bully another person, then took the side of the bully when the target of harassment fought back. Holllyyy shit. DJ Muel literally started that entire drama and yet Xan, Vaush, and Demonmama are in the wrong for pointing out DJs abuse apologia when he literally did the whole "but what about make up sex, Xan?" joke.
Jesus fuck.
No, it's a meme because it's so expected to genuinely happen.
I'm so excited for vaush xan and dm to be called Wokescold lmao
@Billie Cruz He is essentially describing wokescolds the first 30 minutes, but never actually uses the term. I stopped listening after an hour because it seems like FD got all his "Debate Bro" information from DJ since there is Shoe was apparently always a part of the left, Destiny and Vaush are still beasties, and DJ "does real activist work."
I fucking can't.
@@billiecruz4399 He doesn't call anyone that in his video btw
The "All your videos dont get a half million veiws that means your subscribers have checked out" argument is especially funny considering the views on FDs own videos.
The Quatering has high (probably artificial) views what does that say about his channel?
@@falconeshield I'm sure some of it is artificial, but the quartering is either the center of, or adjacent to some trending topic every other week so I wouldnt be surprised if the majority of his veiws are legit.
@@thedarkone246FD Signifier actually gets views on most of his videos that are comparable to his number of subscribers so this isn’t the own you think it is.
Vaush, after India got independence they said the British Raj staff could no longer stay (Around 50,000). The other British could stay (Most chose to leave, around 200,000.). The only deportation that occurred were colonial officials (Perhaps crucially, it was the British government who grabbed them as part of its agreement with India to gtfo), unless they asked to stay and then it was judged on a case by case basis by India. There is still the Anglo-Indian community descended from those who chose to stay. They number 125,000 in India, 20,000 in Bangladesh, and under 1000 in Pakistan (guess why).
For comparison, the Indian state has August 2nd as "Anglo-Indian day." and celebrates their heritage and culture. The Anglo-Indian association also funds family reunion events where relatives from the UK can meet their (by marriage) families in India, with the Anglo-Indians forming the link.
The Indian constitution also has specific articles to protect anglo-Indians which applied the term to British people who chose to remain, as well as their descendants regardless of how intermarried they became, and they have their own "State representative" in the national parliament because they don't have a geographic state but claim to belong to "All of india". (Sort of like if we gave Native Americans two senators).
And also; The organisation's (Anglo-Indian association) efforts under the presidency of Anthony led to Article 331 being included in the Constitution of India: "Notwithstanding anything in Article 170, the Governor of a State may, if he is of opinion that the Anglo-Indian community needs representation in the Legislative Assembly of the State and is not adequately represented therein, [nominate one member of that community to the Assembly]."
This model was later applied to other minority groups. The Indian example demonstrates that Prof Flowers is insane frankly.
how much is it actually applied to other minority groups though? cause i know for a fact that india's siddi community is very oppressed and in some cases is being actively ethnically cleansed based off of some reports
I like how kerala has 1 reserved seat in the legislature for an anglo. That person literally gets to say "ya im the most popular white person in the province apparently".
@@malarkyjones1 very unbased of the indians I must say, to reserve a seat for a goddamn Brit
Ironically a lot of those issues exist because when the British left India they did so in an absolute hurry-dismantling 200 years of colonial rule in less than two tends to cause even more problems.
In other words: India’s political history is messy, though that shouldn’t be news to anyone…
FD has made some really insightful, eloquent & introspective videos - the kind where even if you don't agree with him, you still respect his perspective and come away with new insights.
He still makes videos like that in between the drama BS, but it's so much harder to respect him as a person since he hitched his wagon to the anti-vaush, anti-streamer, wokescold left.
That, in turn, makes it harder to view his other content with the same level of respect, as he's demonstrated such a lack of charitability, self-awareness and good-faith.
It's a real shame.
The same thing happened with Noah Samson, Thought Slime, Sophie from Mars, Kat Blaque etc.
They do still make good videos - sometimes great videos - but I struggle to get as much out of them as I once did, as I just don't respect or trust them as people.
Uhh so much agreed!!!
It’s like their content has been soured for me due to their actions. Which is a shame because I used to love all their content.
Oh well. “Never meet your heroes” I guess lol
What? Maybe it's just me but everyone hold up
Very true, it's like that meme, the person you hate just made a great point, or whatever lol.
@@someonerandom8552 what actions of FD's do you not agree with?
Ugh, yeah, absolutely. I used to love Sophie from Mars. Then I watched that video about conspiracy theories, where she used a clip without context of Vaush while basically claiming that he’d rather lie and win an argument than to say the truth and be wrong. And I thought: “Like, the same thing you’re doing right now?” And I don’t know, I can’t trust anything she says anymore. I’m always wondering if she isn’t lying to make me agree with her point; I’d rather watch Voosh, because even if I don’t agree with him in everything, at least I know that he believes in what he says and is whiling to change his mind if proved wrong.
People have a drama problem.
The only reason the right doesnt have that much drama is because there isnt anything to disagree there. Are you against facts and logic ? If yes you are a right winger, thats it.
They fight too.
@@maxsmart9116 They bicker and squabble but when push comes to shove they'll fall in line, barring a few outliers.
@@kylegonewild this.
We see Stevie upset over the Daily Wire paycheck, but once the GOP has a candidate they'll stop and hold hands for his sake.
@@kylegonewild unironically this. The right fundamentally defers to authority, so it’s more in line with them to shut up and listen to a prominent content creator or politician when a goal needs to be accomplished.
The right doesn’t have any real ideas. So of course there are no internal ideological disputes. While the left ALSO plays way too much people politics, that is literally all the right is capable of.
You should have that Native American lady on again. The one that was actually a Land-Back activist, instead of PF the exclusively-aesthetically-Land-Back grifter.
Yeah it is interesting how the aesthetic lefties conveniently ignore people like her in their discourse. Otherwise it would compromise their notion that _they_ and _they_ alone represent the marginalized groups they claim to represent; then when there is others within that group who speak up against them they do the ol' conservative trick of just pretending it doesn't exist and making sure not to even allude to it in their content in favour of focusing on those who meet the identity signifiers that are convenient to their narrative-aka white and male. So they're unironically erasing marginalized voices.
Who was it?
PF isnt a landback anything... Vaush is the one who brought up Land Back in thag conversation, then proceeded to grossly mischaracterise it by putting words in PFs mouth, then had a simp witg a convenient identity marker on to validate him. The vaush/PF conversation is a VERY easy litmus test for basic understanding of and commitment to liberatory politics and you have very clearly failed it if you think PF was the problem.
@@coyoteblue4027 agreed. I don’t think Vaush or many of his viewers really understand the politics of South Africa, its impact across generations, and the difference from America well enough to opine on that stuff intelligently.
@@coyoteblue4027 professor flowers isn't going to fuck you
Ppl don’t know that to complain about drama online as a big content creator you have to risk starting your own drama, it’s basically impossible to do it otherwise.
Nah, that only happens when you're focusing on stupid social aspects and opinions instead of actual facts. If people are upset about facts, like someone _actually is_ an abuser, or _actually did_ defend N*zis, then being a wishy-washy opinionated dipsh*t about it and failing to cover context like these idiot essayists will never happen. Full stop.
It's easy and pretty quick to call out liars, manipulators, and thieves when you're already talking about it. The fact he talked for 2.5 hours on it is a pretty huge indicator that this is _nothing but_ drama. The people who do not see that need to increase their social skills something fierce. Real life isn't paced like a slow-drip Reality TV drama.
Prof. Flowers does a lot of what Jordan Peterson does. Leaves open horrible conclusions from her pre-conceptions and just kind of throwing her arms in the air saying she isn't responsible for what conclusions other people draw. This willfulness on the left to discount all that is incredibly disturbing. She either hasn't thought out her underlying positions, or she's fine with genocide.
Great another grifter
Professor Jordan Flowers
@@off6848 you've done it, you found her real name 😂😂
To be fair, those are legitimate criticisms, but I think FD was *very* clear about the problems that he had with that situation, and c'mon, they *were* legitimate problems.
People turned her into a media circus, which almost certainly wouldn't have been warranted even she did, legitimately, directly, believe in the notion of white genocide, but the thing is that she doesn't.
And that's an important distinction, because the line was *not* "She believes in a set of positions that may be consistent with the idea of white genocide"(and that's a pretty big may) it was "She believes in white genocide"
Like c'mon, it's probably not reasonable to cast someone as being a thing because they inadvertantly walked into the thing. That's why it kinda put a bad taste in my mouth when FD (and this *might've* been a humorous exaggeration, not sure) just said that Vaush was a racist as if it was with intent, instead of saying that he *did* something racist or (inadvertantly) believed something racist.
@@SaberToothPortilla Advocating for something in every way except implicitly is still advocating for the thing. Flowers doubled down on the genocide stuff in Vaush's talk, then tripled down right after with Heem, and still pops off about it here and there with the 'I'm not saying it but I'm saying it' tripe that benefits other grifters.
I liked a few points in FD‘s video, as in that callout culture has failed to change almost anything or anyone for the better.
If he was serious about ending drama he should have gone with the Lindsay Ellis interview only and deliver the message without all the contentious examples that he took a side in again, thus reheating the drama. There are so many essayists who somehow manage not to end up in month - and yearlong public drama arcs and at some point FD should try to have a look at what he’s doing.
Maybe hbomberguy should make a video addressed specifically to aspiring video essayists about how it‘s done. Not that he would because that’s already too drama-mongering.
Exactly! He has a good point yet he mires it in drama
That's why I like Hbomb so much. As long as his videos are, they are substantive and make arguments about principles and prescriptions rather than saying half-heartedly "do better" while transparently lying about people he doesn't like. The only people he ever did "callout" videos on were the Anti-SJWs and the skeptic community back during gamergate (or Tommy Talerico in the OOF video if you want to really stretch the definition) because having meaningful and convincing pushback to those figures mattered when those people were in the height of their prominence. His rhetoric is biting, witty, and really funny, which is great for engaging the types of people who watch his type of content. Importantly, he never does serious Flanderization or vilification of anyone on his side of the political aisle. He does his analysis, does it well, and makes sure his audience can get something valuable out of it.
@@ActuallySatan This!
Also HBomb is one of those who helped pull me out of my cringe anti SJW phase way back in the day lol
@@ActuallySatan hbomb videos earn their length. A lot of video essayists do not.
Yeah... honestly, I don't even care who's right about any of the drama. It doesn't matter, and none of it makes anything better for anyone. And including it just enables anyone who's involved with it to just narrows in on "FD took this person's side against me" WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE VIDEO IS ABOUT. No useful discussion can come of this, it just serves to make viewers less charitable to him if they aren't on his side.
Vorscht, just say ethnic cleansing instead of genocide. I get what you're saying, but most people would understand it as ethnic cleansing, not genocide, so using the term genocide creates a gigantic tangent to the discussion.
Ethnic cleansing is a euphemism for genocide created by people who were doing a genocide and who wanted to make their genocide sound better
I skipped to a random part in the Signifier video (because I'm not watching all that shit) to see what the vibe was, and I got to a part where Mr. Signifier is interviewing DJ Muel, and Mr. Muel says, and I'm paraphrasing, "I was being toxic on purpose because I wanted to expose how shitty Xanderhal is." Like??? Do these people not hear themselves when they speak?
so annoying bc there extremely valid criticisms of vaush but instead we have to go over the dumbest shit
Talking about a video you've never seen before should be a reportable offense tbh. Like how can you not have seen the professor flowers debate and still be on her side? Oh yeah... because you havent seen it
I would love to know what other things he only bothered to engage with half of. I bet it would be pretty funny.
He said he watched like 90 mins and gave up iirc
@@ytpanda398 i guess thats far enough then. There weren't anything else that really happened at the last bit Haha
That's true but also extremely ironic to post on this video
@@OrionCanning i do agree, but in the end, we cant really expect a streamer who rants for 10 minutes every 4 minutes to watch a 2 hour long video, now can we? 🙃
He shiuld totally watch it in his spare time tho
I find it extremely baffling how hard the Online Left had to rally around Professor Flowers despite her frankly abhorrent views.
Like the amount of circling the wagons for this person is absurd. Is she just friends with a lot of people? Big voice in the space?
I'm Native American If these white colonizers don't like Turtle Island or indigenous people taking their land back and having power they can just go back to Europe.
is her big crime anything other than saying the decolonization of south africa would be a good thing or was it just that
@@UmQasaannI hope you understand you aren't actually on the left, You are just using progressive language to cover for your wretched reactionary ideas.
"Genocide bad, but Uno Reverse Card Genocide good." Interesting take, Prof. Flowers. Am I misunderstanding something from her point?
No, uno reverse card genocide good *unless* Israel does it* is what she said.
*Genocide always bad.
It's crazy, her point was that if colonized people want to genocide their colonizers they should have the choice to. I don't understand how people defended her for that
@@Parmetheus Okay, that's a *gross* misrepresentation of what she actually said.
Violence =/= Genocide (necessarily anyway) full stop.
That's exactly the type of shit that FD said he had a problem with. Now if you do have a problem with the idea of anti-colonial violence in the general sense, that's perfectly understandable, but casting it as necessarily being genocide is putting words in her mouth.
If someone, for example, believes that it's okay for a hostage to kill their kidnapper (even if they aren't in danger for their life, say, if the kidnapper is sleeping), that's a non-trivial position, you can have legitimate issues with that stance, for sure, but if you just say that that person believes in murder, that doesn't actually reflect what they're saying.
A lot of people fighting for separatism are doing it to avoid ongoing genocide (see First Nations in Aus, West Papuan's). In that context, the claim 'all separatists are pro genocide' seems highly disingenuous. Like its arguing for the status quo of 'genocide good, fighting for your survival bad'.
@@SaberToothPortillaDoes the mentality extend to years later hunting down your Kidnappers grandson, and then killing them for their grandfather having kidnapped you? Would defending someone's "right" to do that not be supporting murder of random uninvolved people?
"There's no amount of violence we could enact on you" - said about colonizers, and the "colonizers" aren't the long dead Europeans, but instead random people of a specific race/ethnicity who lives somewhere that was colonized.
Please elaborate for me how that isn't supporting genocide, but is instead anti-colonial violence.
Early in FD's video: "You shouldn't want to cancel someone because they have questionable friends"
Later in the video: "Vaush and Xanderhal deserve to be cancelled because they were friends with Shoe on Head."
37:12 she be speaking for “all colonized people” again, her words, and then goes and says she wasn’t speaking about Land Back, or that she never spoke for Indigenous people? DUDE.
Rebranding genocide as “anti colonial violence” is crazy LMAO
These white colonizers to need to go back to Europe.
They really love making people pay for the sins of their fathers
@@newflesh666 As they should, tell me who started the violence?
@@UmQasaann people who died decades ago, if not centuries. Seems pretty cringe to enact violence on people born after the fact in some type of ancestral revenge
@@newflesh666 Reparations for new afrikans and land back to the indigenous peoples, go back to Europe settler. Free Turtle Island
DJMuel: makes a lie-filled hitpiece on Xanderhal in which he tries to frame Xanderhal as being an abuser for the relationship in which he was abused.
FD: "I can't believe people are calling him an abuse apologist!"
Professor Flowers: Refuses to state during her debate with Vaush that oppressed people don't have the right to genoc1de the racial/ethnic group that oppressed them despite being heavily pressed on it. After the debate, uploads a psychotic rant about how white people are "lucky" that PoC are so kind as to not genoc1de them.
FD: "I can't believe people are saying she's an anti-white racist!"
FD: Shows out-of-context clips created by neo-naz1s made to make Vaush look like a p3do when he was actually making an argument against p3dophilia.
FD: "I can't believe people are calling him a p3do, right guys?" *wink*
I will be borrowing this comment.
and the cycle continues
Vaush and FD are in on it together
Wokescolders are so bad
Made Hasan lose so much money that could've helped Turkey and Syria and Trans people...for pat points?
@@falconeshield true i dislike them too
Thanks FD
ok so FD is never going to really acknowledge how intellectually lazy this all is but I have to say that I can see a kernel of "let's just fucking chill ok" in this that I can kind of agree with, I just wish we wouldn't do this while putting DJ "no make up sex ?" Muel and Vaush in the same bag
The problem I have with video essayists is that they seem to (vaguely) understand how systemic critique works, but they're interpersonal analysis is so fucked.
"To Vaush's credit, as far as I know he's never actually found any kids in Kharkiv"
FD Signifier, 2023
I would call this tactic "denunciation through performance forgiveness" or something similar
self-appointed uncle irohs are kinda terrifying to me ngl
Never trust a self-appointed uncle Iroh just like you should never trust a self-appointed nice guy.
A “self-appointed uncle Iroh” sounds like an oxymoron to begin with
Well this dude had a depressing arc in my book. All I knew of him is that Vaush liked him a year or two ago and all of a sudden this? I'm starting to think there's a literal electric pathogen going around through the leftist internet making everybody dumb af.
I'll be honest, I hate everyone involved.
this is quickly becoming a real-ass mood
the objectively correct take
I think Vaush is vindicated here but you have to put yourself in his shoes
Based!
Yeah honestly vaush loves drama FD loves it DJ loves it
I swear you got what hbomberguy as the only leftytuber who doesn’t revel in drama. Fuck
I didn’t disagree entirely with FD Signifier’s video, and he’s made content I’ve enjoyed a lot in the past, but he was entirely uncharitable with the Djmuel situation, once again. People weren’t angry with Djmuel just for funsies, it was because he targeted someone who was the victim of abuse, and not only covered for their abuser, but tried to make their abuser look like the hero and their victim look like a stupid person who deserved it. As someone who’s been a victim of abuse myself, and also saw people cover for my abusers and make excuses for them, I completely understand why Djmuel’s behavior was so problematic and so upsetting to so many. Seeing him double, even triple down on it is extremely disappointing. I’m glad FD at least acknowledged that Djmuel took it way too far, but still, I don’t think he grasped the gravity of that situation, and gave Djmuel way more credibility than he deserved.
How dare Xan kick someone out of his house and LOCK HER OUT OF HIS MONEY after she lied about basically everything?!?!?!?!?!
@@shis1988 That’s not even what happened, too. She stole the rent money over an extended period of time. This led to them getting kicked out.
IIRC Armoured Skeptic stopped making anti-SJW videos like almost 4 years ago now, even before he broke up with Shoe; he's since deleted most of them from his main channel. And speaking of the breakup it seemed to have fucked him up a fair amount because now he seems to have fully devoted himself to this grand conspiracy theory he made up that reminds me a lot of Graham Hancock (what's really funny is that the theory snowballed out of something he initially did ironically when he was still with Shoe). Aside from probably trying to ape Wendigoon's style in his recent conspiracy era, I really don't think Skeptic is a grifter in the same way that TheQuartering is and I think he genuinely believes the shit he's saying.
...yeah... if anyone wants to get "to the point" of FDs video it's when at the 38 minute mark, right before he brings on DJ Muel and likens his "cancelation" for that 2 hour video on Xan similarly to Hasan being "cancelled" for buying a house. This is absolutely not a "holistic thing" when FD accuses breadtube of being drama obsessed with drama; using wokescolds on Twitter as a premise and the response to DJ Muel as an example.
Seriously, it makes sense FD worked as a professor in education because this grown ass man saw someone essentially bully another person, then took the side of the bully when the target of harassment fought back. Holllyyy shit. DJ Muel literally started that entire drama and yet Xan, Vaush, and Demonmama are in the wrong for pointing out DJs abuse apologia when he literally did the whole "but what about make up sex, Xan?" joke.
Jesus fuck.
Up until that point it was a nice, mild video about how we shouldn't hold mistakes over people's heads forever and that cancel culture isn't good.
Then it became attacking Vaush and Xanderhal for two hours, sometimes about things from years ago.
@WarlordofBritannia Yeah... and what made it worse was DJs newest reasoning for that Xan video is "I just wanted to give that toxic community a taste of their own medicine." ...how did FD actually write down that in the video script and not realize the guy is exactly who he described in the beginning?
God I just hate how this whole thing is going. I have *way* too much respect for FD and how he's helped me and people like me. It really hurts to see him in videos like this.
Let it serve as a warning that a personal grudge can make you just as stupid as any brain dead conservative.
I think FD has some good stuff but his grudge with V and crew and his defense of DJMuel shows that there are some critical flaws in his epistemology that he needs to figure out.
Im so confused by his stunlock on this. I would hate to think FD is literally just punching up for the sake getting clicks.
He has so many bases rational takes but has a huge blind spot here that makes no sense.
His channel is one of my favorites but he’s purposefully digging himself into drama that’s literally hurting his health. Like, his longest and probably most effort filled video, was about drama, rather than a genuine topic. Surely he hasn’t run out of things to say as a black leftist?
It's also sad he's helped people when he's defending abuse deniers and engaging in abuse apologia. Sad.
I respect him all the more for it. Vaush a fan base has never felt safe, especially if you aren’t white or male. I’m glad to see some really smart, considerate non white leftist creators standing up to white leftists who want to segregate activism.
DJ Muel is absolutely a monster. The fact that FD would give that guy a pass is bad enough for me to never listen to him again.
Wait, I'm confused. So he says Vaush fell off L + Ratio, and half his viewers don't engage. But also, he has the power to move people to start a relentless campaign of hate on not only against PF and other content creators, which seems like it'd take a lot of people? Odd.
And also FD uploads monthly with the same subscriber count and still has a lower median view count DuckerZ
I agree with this, but a relentless hate campaign doesn’t have to be from a massive audience. It could be a small, very militant audience.
@Treeztop yeah I know, but he was trying to imply that Vaushs' audience wasn't active or engaging with him anymore. And while small groups can cause insanely harmful harassment. The group needs to be motivated and committed. He can't have his cake and eat it too, is what I'm saying.
The enemy must at all times be overwhelmingly powerful, yet at the same time pitifully weak.
@@flutterg1035 you said it seems like it would take a lot of people and that’s false. He was implying Vaush’s rhetoric was making people harass CCs. It wasn’t a have your cake and eat it too thing.
saying "I won't bring up the opioid addiction" is a way to bring up the opioid addiction.
FD defenders are not sending in their best.
Sadly I think they are.
They don't need to when this is the audience and the person that audience follows
The minute the FD video dropped, my first thought was something along the lines of " aren't you part of the drama"?
FD thinks he's just an enlightened cen- I mean spectator with no biases or issues of his own. Which gives him full authority and right to critique anyone everywhere.
Yeah… I was miffed he posted this video, when two weeks ago he started some high school tier drama with Kidology. Picking apart her video with his groupies while not engaging with her points was some petty high school level sh*t and as expected resulted in some petty drama. Like damn I also didn’t agree with everything she said in her video (she was “enlightened centrists” about the right) but she also made some good points and demonstrated good faith, if he really had some good faith criticism, he should have engaged in a conversation instead of that groupies display.
That is what he says on the video. He admits its everyone's problem.
Video essayists really just keep stretching "Vaush and Xanderhal bad" into 2-3 hours and genuinely think they're doing material good in the world
_"No amount of force would make up for the millions slaughtered/enslaved, but I'm totally not justifying genocide guys!"_
I had forgotten how disgusting her little screed there was...
Genocide is bad.......
*B U T*
Gonna start a channel that just indiscriminately clips every essay channel saying something out of context that sounds bad.
All of those white hands messing w his braids , that thumbnail insinuates ALOT. It seems to me that his videos are more drama and make more empty accusations towards people that he doesn't like. I get the feeling he is not that bright.
He's either dumb AF, or knowingly stirring up more drama. It could go either way. Some people can manage to only sound dumb when they're lying out their ass the entire time.
Just another black nerd fantasizing that all the white girls wanna touch him.
Before anyone gets mad at that, I’m not a leftist
@Mythic wait a min, are u being serious? U can tell I'm racist because I said braid instead of lock? Its not about race really it's more about how he claims all these ppl are drama yet look at the thumbnail and his content , it's drama bait. So calm tf down.
okay now that i watched at least vaushs coverage of his video WHY did he choose that thumbnail? it didnt fit the video at all
@@jlp6864 I know! It is purposefully saying something he believes w out outright saying it
22:15 Hasan wasn't accused of being a predator by DGG. It was Lav who accused him. Destiny/DGG defended Hasan. I understand disliking Destiny but Vaush's audience sometimes treats Destiny like the boogeyman in the same way other communities do to Vaush.
Destiny is kinda himself centric
Two things, Vaush really should have watched the rest of the video.
But also, the reason for this entire exhausting series of barely not drama, is that f.d just dislikes Vaush and is unwilling to admit he's wrong.
I don't blame him for not watching the whole thing. 2+ hour editorials are hugeeee time sinks. Watching it in one sitting is very difficult.
How can Vaush complain about being taken out of context when he’s taking FD out of context? He’s not watching the whole video, he doesn’t even know the overarching points that FD was making, he’s just skipping to the parts that he’s in caus that’s all he cares about 🫠🙃 just a little confused
Vaush is full of it
I recall souring on FD when he was talking about Attack on Titan and he said(not a direct quote but close) that the very fact there's a discussion on whether Attack on Titan is fascist or not is proof that it's fascist.
Lefty wokescold types are the WOOORST at media literacy and analysis.
@@nope5657 so true
Vaush, if you calm down and check your ego and watch the whole video from beginning to end, you'll see that far from trying to start drama with you, he DEFENDS you. (Looks like none of the people who left upvoted comments here watched the whole video either, btw.) In a whole lotta words, he basically says that you don't deserve the hate that people direct your way and most of what people say about you isn't true. He has his OWN problems with you, but on the whole he defends you 80%, criticizes you 20%. He also says he doesn't like debate bros (as a personal opinion) but concedes that debate bros, on the whole, are a good thing.
The problem with the twitch streamer reaction type of content is that you react to whatever you're watching in the moment, sentence by sentence. That's not how you read an essay and it's not how you watch a video essay. You keep saying "Well, what about THIS?" when if you just kept watching, you'd see that he does address it. Yes, you have to watch the video in linear time, but you're supposed to wait until the end before judging or responding to it.
Of course no one is interested in watching you quietly sit through a 2.5 hour video. They're here to be entertained. It's your JOB to keep reacting and arguing with the video. It does mean you can't do a proper job of engaging with video essays, though.
While also calling him a racist and insulting his analytics of his channel and style of content. That isnt true defense, what that is in actuality is just replacement of one attack for another. Saying someone is "not that bad" is not saying said people are a "good thing" because you are still implying wrong with them.
@@darryljack6612 He said the hard N slur to a group of white supremacists to seem cool and they laughed it off
@@COrraThereal0ne Firstly you are leaving a lot of details out of context, and secondly saying the word alone doesnt make someone racist. Again... full context matters with use, intent, purpose, etc.
Man, I sure hope people "defend" you how FD defended Vaush. If you genuinely think it's a good way to talk about people and defend them, try it yourself.
Find some weird shit your friends said, out of context, flash it in people's face, and then say "I don't personally think he's a bad guy though". Go even further, find other people youve heard called horrible things, and in the same breath defend all three, equating their actions as remotely similar.
"Sarcasticron may be a holier than though fuckwit, who watches kids in the bathroom and smells their feet, but that's just stuff other people said about them. I don't believe it personally, and don't think you should either, without evidence like this poorly edited photo of them smelling a little girls toes"
Vaush should add a full context clip debunking part to his website,
I remember ages ago finding one of the old streams someone clipped from to get the context and maybe I'm wrong but I think making the context more easily available would be best, a lot of those old streams are unlisted and difficult to find whilst the out of context clips are absolutely everywhere
All this over wanting healthcare for everybody.
"My views do not constitute the legal definition of genocide." - PF
"LAW!? THE LAW!? WHAT ARE YOU!? A FUCKING LIBERAL!?" - Voosh
Vaush singing the smash character selector music may be a highlight for his entire career.
12:40 Vaush, this is distressing news. I must offer my condolences that your daily videos barely get half of your subs as views, and I must say I will miss your dying channel when it inevitably vanishes within a week or two.
Seriously how can FD get these numbers so wrong? You know he studies his own analytics. That's objectively a good ratio, I hear a third being often quoted as pretty good.
F.D. in this makes good points about how Canceling need more organized structure. When is someone allowed to be uncancled? How many years do we persist in dunking on these people? When are they forgiven?
And for many, if they don't accept the critique, those with power and money will just return with their next project, and have learned nothing.
Than he frames the DJ Muel and Flowers incidents crooked, and all of that and other shit is things I'd argue with him about
Look, you can't have other people starting drama, and then claim the targets of that drama are also starting drama if they talk about it. If that were the case, then you'd have assholes being assholes 24/7 without anyone calling them on it. I've watched his video, and I think he did a good job pointing out instances of people doing nothing wrong - but then being attacked for their innocuous statements. He even defends Vaush in a large portion of the video, as a victim of unwarranted drama. So all the people here going nuts over FDs video without actually watching it need to relax. Not saying I agree with everything in it, but for the most part it's actually good.
I watched it too, but that defending Vaush part is about 15 minutes right after he spent almost an hour attacking Vaush and Xanderhal.
That's the problem with it--FD is either a blatant hypocrite or has a comically low level of self-awareness. Whatever good he meant is completely negated by the rest of it.
@WarlordofBritannia Come on man, that's an exaggeration. First, don't lump Xanderhal and Vaush together. They're 2 different people. Speaking solely about Vaush, he did call him out for a few things - some of which I agree with, some of which I don't - but it wasn't an hour long solely about Vaush. Second, regarding Xanderhal, again - yes, he called out some things about him. And again, some of which I agree with, and some of which I don't. I personally don't like Xanderhal that much. Doesn't make the abuse he suffer okay though. But saying all of FDs other points about the other people he interviewed being canceled for no fucking reason, are undone because a couple of his points are bad - is just ridiculously close minded, and is what leads to that kind of canceling in the first place. If all the good you do is invalidated by the single evil you do, then no one is safe. It's a fucked up way to look at people.
@@RubedoURTV666
I think his showcasing actual cases of unfair cancellation actually makes it worse; he’s equating Vaush to the people that drove Lindsay Ellis off the Internet.
Plus, the timing isn’t an exaggeration. I literally took record of how long each segment was-something like from 38 minutes in to about the hour and a half mark was spent attacking Vaush and Xanderhal, then Vaush got 10-15 minutes of mild defending.
@@RubedoURTV666
Also, good intentions don’t survive blatant bad faith. That’s what I meant by “negate”
@@RubedoURTV666 why didn’t FD Signifier extend an invitation to interview Vaush about his “cancellations”?
Damn, this video was uploaded a minute ago. Never been this early. What should I say?
How about them horses, folks?
Very interesting domestication history there
VORSE
It's like a hentai recording booth, nobody cares.
They sure looking good today
@@Subsandsoda Please don't vore the horse
It's like that Bowling For Soup song, High school never ends?
I hate that vaush missed the point of some of FDs arguments but Can't blame him when FDs can't even take the effort to research the shit he said about Vaush.
I still cannot believe that the Professor Flowers debate is controversial still today. I saw it completely unbiased from the opinion that it would generate and I reached basically the same conclusions as Vaush, because they were obvious, and then I turn around, and half of the left in TH-cam seems to be trying to gas light me about what PF said and implied.
Sadly this is because of 2 reasons, one is that PF was talking to Vaush and because Vaush is white. If PF would have talked to someone like Shark3zero, alot more people would call her out on her bullshit and toxic behavior. This is why most people believe that her conversation with Keem was worse.
Oh and some people just love to white knight, even people like Professor Sunday and that bit him in the ass later
Yall didn't even watch the fuckin video
cope & seethe👶
The discussion of Vaush is a very small part of the video. It's mostly about cancel culture.
not all that true. the first 35 minutes is about cancel culture, but a solid hour after that is all about Vaush.
@@Calintares bruh someone didn't watch the video... Most of it if anything is more about Xan.
I want to like FD, he gave me a good grasp on some topics. But he keeps releasing some shit I can't stand or defend. But as I heard someone say on twitter, he's changing slowly. So maybe he will be better in a year or two.
change and grow as a person
I dunno man, first he defends Samsen, then he goes after V and crew using out of context clips while defending PF, talks to Shark, walks some of that back, then doubles down on it later, then defends DJMuel, then puts out this dumpster fire where he doubles down on all of the same sh*t and finally admits to never having watched all of the PF convo while demonstrating he has never sought context for the clip that people have told him are out of context.
Dude is putting on an air of respectability while he keeps finding new ways to demonstrate willful ignorance, favoritism and an unwillingness to be self critical.
I don't know what other people are seeing but I'm seeing someone who is merrily digging their hole deeper and deeper.
I hope he's changing for the better and not the worse.
@@rainbowkrampus well I just (want to) like him. I think that might be my bias. But you are right. Normally I would call this person ignorant and go on with my life. Let's just hope he gets better.
You’ve unlocked “Highest Level of Irony 🏆”
This whole thing is so dumb. I became a fan of FD when he talked about Bo Burnham and Inside. He started talking about black issues and black media in a way that I thought was really good and unique.
But this whole descent into drama is so stupid. I legit can't tell if he's as deranged as the Twitter wokescolds that take the clips at face value uncritically or if he does this in bad faith. He's not that dumb!
I watched the entire video after Vaush covered these parts of it on stream. It's really a larger denouncement of drama and cancellations on the left, wrapped up in a video going over drama and attacking Vaush and Xan, and still standing up for dj muel.
I lost all the respect I had left for FD here.
Easiest unsub of my life.
Honestly I kind of have to assume he is being malicious in his refusal to watch the Professor Flowers debate/Muel hit piece, because too much of his content is well reasoned and good for me to believe he is this dumb. Multiple people tried to respectfully reach out on the latter (Merrick specifically tried so he must have had to read through her DM to contact her for this), so it's really infuriating for him to pretend that the only issue Muel got blasted for is "bringing up the messy break up."
It's just too damn convenient and reeks of his bias preventing him from doing the barest minimum of decent analysis.
I just don't the "Don't engage" rethoric. Sure you can clip someone out of context, but you don't need to watch a 3 hour video to respond to a singular point that gets brought up. There is no way that it takes someone 3 hours to talk about a single specific point, and there is no way that, that singular point gets reframed in such a way to significantly alter it's original meaning up to a point where your critique becomes invalid. Also funny that this critique comes in defence of people who clearly haven't watched a single minute of whoever they happen to be critiquing themselves!
This is kinda like saying you don't need to read a whole sentence to tell what a word in that sentence means. Technically true, practically wrong.
Sure you could say that it is comparable to not reading an entire book before engaging with the points made in a specific paragraph or chapter. But a word in a sentence!? That's just hyperbole.
I'm just saying, he made multiple points throughout the video. He didn't talk about a singular super specific point for 3 hours straight. Sure there was an overarching theme. You can take statements that are only loosely connect and address them separately.
Heck sometimes noticing a faulty assumption in an early statement could make the whole argument fall apart. If the argument relies on the statement being correct.
Obviously if, someone makes a broad statement and they follow that up with caveats you shouldn't jump the gun. But I am talking about statements that stand alone, even if they are part of an overarching narrative.
It's an ouroboros, slowly eating the wrinkles off its own brain.
Hotep-levels of bias and stubborness
FD defending professor flowers says a lot about him
Probably fancies her
The online left needs to touch grass more
everyone needs to delete their twitter.
also their tiktok.