I'm so appreciative of this teaching! I read the bible. Along my journey I have questioned all these points, especially when in a Calvinistic church setting. I'd think, "wait a minute, you are not talking about this verse or that verse..." There's so much. Thank you and may God continue his blessings on you and your wife. Much love ❤️
I'm do glad that you've done this Dr. Keener! My heart rends that it has to be done in this day and age when character was the focus when i wqs growing up. Every human being an image bearer even if not in character, worthy of love and to be treated as such. We have in 1 John our standard, Romans the bar, and Matthew the manifesto. I pray more hear your words and take them to heart, that there be peace among The Body that shines as a light to draw those lost in the dark to see HIS Great Light and call JESUS Christ and Lord. And that we knock and kepe down the walls of legalism that separate us from unity in CHRIST. Because when Paul says, "Has CHRIST been divided?!" Yet we are this way now more than ever, that there are two Methodist churches and both are using the same arguments ( for example off hand ) is insane. If both sides can use the same argument the question is a distraction, more than it is helpful.
The word "Pastor" it's interesting to note came from Shepherd, to lead to pasture, to feed, tend, guard, protect. And in Genesis 29 Rachel is a Shepherdess.
Hi Dr Keener, I've watched this video and it's very convincing but I would love to see a response to some of Mike winger's objections to your work. I feel so torn on this issue between your videos and his.
I have high respect for Mike and appreciate his ministry; at the same time, I am barely able to keep up on my own work, so I haven't watched that part of his teaching. Some others have urged me to watch it, saying that he mischaracterized my work (the only part I did see kind of lumped all pro-women's ministry scholars together, though we do not all hold the same exegetical conclusions just as not all who object to it do). But there are so many issues I have written on and need to address (most. recently, especially on reliability of the Gospels) that I can't go back to this one very much.
If women are to be silent (taking the literal approach), are men required to raise their hands every single time they pray? 1 Timothy 2:8 (ESV): 8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
❤ I wish there were more people like you in the Assembly of God! I posted my notes on this topic on LinkedIn's AoG group last year, but no one was interested in the discussion. In Genesis 18:12, the word translated as lord is better rendered as my husband. One of the meanings of the root, Adon, is husband. 1 Timothy 2: 8 - 15 is Paul addressing and correction the errors brought in by the Cult of Diana of the Ephesians, point by point. This context helps make this passage make perfect sense. The word translated as authority, Authentein, is better rendered as author of (creator). Keeping in mind the Who, What, Where, When, and Why of the Scriptures will greatly help in the interpretation and application of the Bible.
I appreciate this video Dr. Keener. May I ask how you interpret 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 in regards to eldership? I find this specifically tricky since I am not sure I can import what is going on in Timothy into Titus’s context in Crete? It seems Paul is employing a universal standard? I appreciate your time!
Dr. Keener, thanks for your work. What do you do with the idea that Paul's prohibition of silence has to do with authoritative final interpretation/discernment of prophecy in the public assembly? That that should be ultimately relegated to men as a sign of submission etc.?
Great video! I’d love for you to have a discussion with Mike winger on this because he is a comp and argues against egal views. I disagree with Winger on this but his logic is amazing so that’s why I’d love for you guys to connect
Thanks. I have great respect for Mike Winger and appreciate the solid teaching he brings to the internet on most issues. I'd be happy to have friendly discussion with him, though in terms of view count I would be out of my league-he probably has 100x my view count so he wouldn't have much reason (or probably time) to want to have a public dialogue with little old me 🙂
@@CraigKeenerPhD Terran Williams and Andrew Bartlett have been doing written responses to Mike's videos. The intro to "What Winger Presently Gets Wrong -- Women Leaders in the New Testament, Part A" contains this: ---------------- Begin quote ----------------- We love Mike’s heart. He says: ‘If you’re a scholar who’s really studied in this area and you want to give me pushback, I really would like to read it now. If I’m wrong, I want to know it. Love to see that pushback.’ [Part 8 video, 0hr6mins] We commend Mike for his openness, and we thank him for his invitation. ------------------------ End quote ---------------- It's my understanding that Terran and Andrew have repeatedly tried to engage Mike in direct dialogue, but have been rebuffed. 😞
It really take alot of special pleading to read egalitarianism into the Bible. Congrats for that monumental effort. 🎉🎉🎉 The Apostlic church however will always be led by the Holy Spirit through godly men that fit the criteria from 1 Tim 3.
Thank God that God doesn't follow your rules. A large proportion of apostolic church plants in China, Pakistan, and elsewhere have been started by women, who lay their lives on the line to preach the gospel.
Question: Why didn't Jesus choose any women for disciples, if women can preach ? Another question: Why didn't any of Paul's women helpers teach in the synagogues? I checked the other books concerning the prophetess and none taught in the synagogues. Could it be that it was against the law? Thank you for sharing this Shalom
Why didn't Jesus choose any gentiles for disciples, if gentiles can preach? Why didn't any of Paul's helpers teach in the synagogues? Synagogues didn't let gentiles teach in synagogues any more than they normally let women ...
@CraigKeenerPhD I agree, but God doesn't change, his ways were set before the foundation of the world. I believe that a woman can preach, just not in whats considered a sanctuary, just like the Jewish Prophetess prophesied outside the synagogues. Thank you for your response brother. Shalom
fredmorgan I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles by God. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore a Judge could execute a man. Any doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did is a false doctrine, and must be rejected.
@@CraigKeenerPhD See how Keener had to deflect and engage in a whataboutim on this one. He can't substantly engage in this point because its a clear defeater to his egalitarianism.
You fail to distinguish between the tasks proper to a male presbyter or overseer (e.g. preaching, leading a congregation) and those proper to a lay person (e.g. prophecy).
Indeed. It amazes me how comp. scholars explain away the plain sense of the Prisca, Aquilla, and Apollos account, or the plain sense of the Creation Accounts, or the plain contextual sense of the Acts 2 account...
I'm so appreciative of this teaching! I read the bible. Along my journey I have questioned all these points, especially when in a Calvinistic church setting. I'd think, "wait a minute, you are not talking about this verse or that verse..." There's so much. Thank you and may God continue his blessings on you and your wife. Much love ❤️
Thank you so much, Dr. Keener, for your generosity in sharing your teachings. They have been such a blessing! 🙏🏻✝️❤️
Bless you, brother. Humble, gentle and honest teaching.
Excellent teaching. Thank you very much Dr. Craig, God Bless you!!!
Thank you for this information and your heart for God’s Word to empower woman by the power of the Holy Spirit! :)
I'm do glad that you've done this Dr. Keener! My heart rends that it has to be done in this day and age when character was the focus when i wqs growing up. Every human being an image bearer even if not in character, worthy of love and to be treated as such. We have in 1 John our standard, Romans the bar, and Matthew the manifesto.
I pray more hear your words and take them to heart, that there be peace among The Body that shines as a light to draw those lost in the dark to see HIS Great Light and call JESUS Christ and Lord. And that we knock and kepe down the walls of legalism that separate us from unity in CHRIST. Because when Paul says, "Has CHRIST been divided?!" Yet we are this way now more than ever, that there are two Methodist churches and both are using the same arguments ( for example off hand ) is insane. If both sides can use the same argument the question is a distraction, more than it is helpful.
Great teaching! For the 1st time, I understood this topic!
I was just reading a sample of your book, “Women in Ministry”! Ironic this is posted today, very grateful ♥️🙏🏼📖
The word "Pastor" it's interesting to note came from Shepherd, to lead to pasture, to feed, tend, guard, protect. And in Genesis 29 Rachel is a Shepherdess.
Two during the same day!? Hallelujah.
🙂
Hi Dr Keener, I've watched this video and it's very convincing but I would love to see a response to some of Mike winger's objections to your work. I feel so torn on this issue between your videos and his.
I have high respect for Mike and appreciate his ministry; at the same time, I am barely able to keep up on my own work, so I haven't watched that part of his teaching. Some others have urged me to watch it, saying that he mischaracterized my work (the only part I did see kind of lumped all pro-women's ministry scholars together, though we do not all hold the same exegetical conclusions just as not all who object to it do). But there are so many issues I have written on and need to address (most. recently, especially on reliability of the Gospels) that I can't go back to this one very much.
@@CraigKeenerPhD I appreciate your response! Thank you! That definitely makes sense.
Great video in general but I especially appreciated the points about false teachers in I Timothy.
If women are to be silent (taking the literal approach), are men required to raise their hands every single time they pray? 1 Timothy 2:8 (ESV): 8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
❤ I wish there were more people like you in the Assembly of God! I posted my notes on this topic on LinkedIn's AoG group last year, but no one was interested in the discussion.
In Genesis 18:12, the word translated as lord is better rendered as my husband. One of the meanings of the root, Adon, is husband.
1 Timothy 2: 8 - 15 is Paul addressing and correction the errors brought in by the Cult of Diana of the Ephesians, point by point. This context helps make this passage make perfect sense. The word translated as authority, Authentein, is better rendered as author of (creator).
Keeping in mind the Who, What, Where, When, and Why of the Scriptures will greatly help in the interpretation and application of the Bible.
I appreciate this video Dr. Keener. May I ask how you interpret 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 in regards to eldership? I find this specifically tricky since I am not sure I can import what is going on in Timothy into Titus’s context in Crete? It seems Paul is employing a universal standard? I appreciate your time!
Would it be possible to get a PDF copy of your presentation?
Dr. Keener, thanks for your work. What do you do with the idea that Paul's prohibition of silence has to do with authoritative final interpretation/discernment of prophecy in the public assembly? That that should be ultimately relegated to men as a sign of submission etc.?
That is just one item in the context; plus all who prophesy are invited to evaluate
Great video! I’d love for you to have a discussion with Mike winger on this because he is a comp and argues against egal views.
I disagree with Winger on this but his logic is amazing so that’s why I’d love for you guys to connect
Thanks. I have great respect for Mike Winger and appreciate the solid teaching he brings to the internet on most issues. I'd be happy to have friendly discussion with him, though in terms of view count I would be out of my league-he probably has 100x my view count so he wouldn't have much reason (or probably time) to want to have a public dialogue with little old me 🙂
@@CraigKeenerPhD Terran Williams and Andrew Bartlett have been doing written responses to Mike's videos. The intro to "What Winger Presently Gets Wrong -- Women Leaders in the New Testament, Part A" contains this:
---------------- Begin quote -----------------
We love Mike’s heart. He says: ‘If you’re a scholar who’s really studied in this area and you want to give me pushback, I really would like to read it now. If I’m wrong, I want to know it. Love to see that pushback.’ [Part 8 video, 0hr6mins] We commend Mike for his openness, and we thank him for his invitation.
------------------------ End quote ----------------
It's my understanding that Terran and Andrew have repeatedly tried to engage Mike in direct dialogue, but have been rebuffed. 😞
It really take alot of special pleading to read egalitarianism into the Bible. Congrats for that monumental effort.
🎉🎉🎉
The Apostlic church however will always be led by the Holy Spirit through godly men that fit the criteria from 1 Tim 3.
Thank God that God doesn't follow your rules. A large proportion of apostolic church plants in China, Pakistan, and elsewhere have been started by women, who lay their lives on the line to preach the gospel.
Question:
Why didn't Jesus choose any women for disciples, if women can preach ?
Another question: Why didn't any of Paul's women helpers teach in the synagogues? I checked the other books concerning the prophetess and none taught in the synagogues.
Could it be that it was against the law?
Thank you for sharing this Shalom
Why didn't Jesus choose any gentiles for disciples, if gentiles can preach? Why didn't any of Paul's helpers teach in the synagogues? Synagogues didn't let gentiles teach in synagogues any more than they normally let women ...
@CraigKeenerPhD I agree, but God doesn't change, his ways were set before the foundation of the world. I believe that a woman can preach, just not in whats considered a sanctuary, just like the Jewish Prophetess prophesied outside the synagogues. Thank you for your response brother. Shalom
@@fredmorgan5387 When OT prophetesses prophesied, it's true they didn't do it in synagogues. There weren't any synagogues yet in the OT. Shalom
fredmorgan
I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles by God.
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore a Judge could execute a man.
Any doctrine that is in opposition to what God actually did
is a false doctrine, and must be rejected.
@@CraigKeenerPhD
See how Keener had to deflect and engage in a whataboutim on this one. He can't substantly engage in this point because its a clear defeater to his egalitarianism.
You fail to distinguish between the tasks proper to a male presbyter or overseer (e.g. preaching, leading a congregation) and those proper to a lay person (e.g. prophecy).
It appears that we would disagree with such a distinction
It takes a scholar to explain the text such that it says the exact opposite of what it seems to say.
Maybe try to engage with the content to further the conversation??
Indeed. It amazes me how comp. scholars explain away the plain sense of the Prisca, Aquilla, and Apollos account, or the plain sense of the Creation Accounts, or the plain contextual sense of the Acts 2 account...