What do you think? Do you agree with my reasons or did I miss something? PS the metal bucket we used was just a prop - too small to actually be useful as a rice bucket
I don't know... what about beans? What if beans are more effective? Legumes maybe? Pasta? The one shaped like a screw? Oh I know, chickpeas. They are bigger and harder. What about combinations of foods to get the benefits from many of them? If scientists don't make comprehensive research for every possible food we will never know. Now that I am thinking about it why not dip our feet in there as well? For ankle sprains?
@@leoingson less resistance, but higher convenience factor. Easy to do while walking, chatting, etc. Similar to how I would treat rice bucket training (if I did it), tendon glides serve as just an initial movement to help improve mobility of the tendons and joints in the hands and wrists, while also gently improving blood flow. They should then be followed up with more advanced warm up techniques.
Definitely think you missed some of the key points of rice bucket training here. One of the biggest (and least measurable) reasons I have a rice bucket next to the TV is for active recovery. I often find that even just 1 session a week after a hard climbing day leaves my fingers and forearms feeling much, much more recovered the next day. That's not because it's always working the specific muscles used in the supporting grips for climbing, but because facilitates one of the most beneficial body functions for repair: blood flow. I can't name any other exercise that I can do in my home that gets a large amount of blood into my hands (the hands are a huge one!) and forearms without a pump or creating overload of any kind if I don't want it to. Secondly, rice buckets are one of the easiest ways to train lactic capacity in the forearms. It's extremely easy to basically mirror the demands of a difficult sport route as far as your forearm is concerned, and you can just repeatedly hit that threshold without any risk of strain on your pulleys (because, like you said, they're hardly getting worked) as long/as hard as you can stand. This is a limiting factor for all sport climbers at some time or another. And also, in terms of training concentrics and not eccentrics: yes, probably not optimal in a rehab setting, but under most circumstances, climbers basically never do eccentrics for the lower arm in their training; it's entirely concentrics and isometrics, and the rice bucket can train isometrics in such a way that no other exercise can do (for example, keeping your fingers relatively neutral/straight and pointing, stir the rice as deep as you can clockwise and counter: you're basically asking each finger to stabilize isometrically in every direction). One other point we all know, over-specialization in particular movements for long periods of time tends to increase the risk of injury, and the rice bucket provides relatively novel stimulus to this highly specialized area (as far as climbing training is concerned). In terms of progression, I think it's a bit backwards to say that it should be discounted because it's hard to measure progress (yes, for specific scenarios, measurement is better, but not doing something because you can't measure it directly is definitely not optimal). You can, also, progress it the way you would progress any other exercise: increase "rep" duration, increase number of sets, decrease rest between sets, introduce more challenging exercises, add resistance (stick hands deeper), increase training frequency, switch from rice to beans, etc etc. However, for my purposes at least, progression often isn't the goal, it's recovery - and like I said before, if the goal is to train lactic acid/"pump" recovery, I'll just increase the amount of rounds or the duration.
I'll also say, for any sort of lactic acid type training, or even in most rice bucket training, you actually have to exert effort which I think lots of people don't do for some reason. I break out in a full body sweat pretty quickly, and I'm not a sweaty person. I do have years of weight training/powerlifting under my belt though, which is why I'm confident in how to progress and how to repeatedly exert maximum effort.
Anecdotally speaking, I've had a series of finger and hand injuries over the past few years and there are no exercises that have made me FEEL healthier than the rice bucket. It is not a complete warm up by any means, but the difference that rice bucketing with finger flicks, wrist rotations, and back & forth finger drags for about 20 minutes makes before moving onto more comprehensive warm ups can not be understated. Doing other forms of finger warm ups like mobile board rows and light hang board recruitments without the rice bucket have always made the start of my sessions feel kinda tweaky and dangerous. When using the bucket first, my fingers feel really healthy and warm. I'm not sure about the actual science behind this, but I have a suspicion it has to do with promoted blood flow, and the even recruitment of all parts of the hand & forearm. I've noticed it also greatly helps with the mobility of my hands. If I climb without the rice bucket, I find I am unable to close my hand all the way without a great amount of resistance. When I use it regularly, I am able to do this easily. Additionally, I find it extremely helpful for a cool down as well to prevent injury. After a hard pulling session, I'll generally feel very tweaky in the pulleys. This feeling almost immediately goes away after using the bucket. Finally, I think the mental aspect of the rice bucket is a positive factor as well. It's really therapeutic and satisfying to do, and it makes you feel really cool - like bruce lee or something -. Doing this zen, repetitive exercise before a session generally calms me down and prevents me from over-gripping or getting into a frustrated headspace. It is easier to focus and feel happy when climbing (which I think is the point of climbing to begin with). My experience with the rice bucket has been overwhelmingly positive and has made a tangible difference for my climbing in a variety of ways. I understand the points this video is making, and they are super valid. That being said I just wanted to share this here so no one gets turned away from at least trying it!
To top this off as a massage therapist that more often does deep tissue massage I have a similar sentiment. My hands feel much more mobile and 'happier' after a 10 or 20 minute rice bucket session, especially when the rice has gotten below freezing overnight outside and I bring it in for a morning session.
Rice buckets are an amazing tool for wrist conditioning and for helping with elbow tendinitis, less so for finger related injuries although extensor work always helps. It wouldn't be the only tool I use when rehabbing but it's always a core part of my arsenal when I'm rehabbing wrist and elbow injuries/tweaks. I don't believe there's any other tool that targets every single muscle in the wrist/forearm and plains of motion quite like the rice bucket does (albeit purely concentric and isometrically). I also believe rice bucketing is the quickest way to get blood into the forearms and fingers before beginning a more targeted strengthening/rehab exercise like hangboarding. There is the issue of rice buckets being very diverse tools; the type of rice you use, the size of the bucket and depth at which you perform each exercise will vary greatly and produce wildly different results. I use thin basmati in a large bucket which offers quite a lot of resistance and gets me pumped very quickly, using larger grains in a small bucket offers far less resistance and isn't applicable for my rehabbing needs.
Be nice to see alternatives that aren’t just the targeted pulls. Seems like a rice bucket is like a yoga mat, lots of different exercises may be performed within.
About a decade ago I had an injury that prevented me from climbing. Over 6 weeks my only hand exercise was the rice bucket. At the end of those 6 weeks, my hand grip dynamometer values actually went up 4 lbs (dominant) and 5 lbs (non-dominant) I didn't climb or do pull-ups, dumbells or anything else during that time. When I started using the hang board again after those 6 weeks my times did drop but rapidly recovered and even bypassed my previous times. I appreciate your attempt to base this on data and be objective but I really think you missed something here.
Great video! Really funny. I use a rice bucket and vary my resistance with the depth. It gets a lot more difficult as the packing under weight effect of the increases the deeper you go. Finger extension is hard to replicate with other exercises. The real reason I do it is because if popped out a new vein in the top of my forearm that I hadn't seen before. Keep up the good work!
I use a rice bucket for 2 minutes at the beginning of my warmup to help warmup my wrists and fingers before doing some light hangs. Maybe it is placebo, but those 2 minutes of rice bucket makes the first few hangs feel significantly less tweaky than if i just hop straight on a fingerboard. Without the rice bucket, my warmup takes about 10 minutes longer to get everything gliding smoothly.
Hi, although Jujimufu showed (on youtube) that climbers have world class grip/finger strength, when Magnus Magnus Midtbø unofficially beat the heavyweight hub pinch grip record, I still think that climbers might have something to learn from grip strength athletes. Typically, grip athletes do train finger extensors (although not heavily) in order to keep something of a balance with finger flexors. They do this for hand health and because it does seem to aid recovery from heavy gripping. "Grip Strength: How to Close Heavy Duty Hand Grippers, Lift Thick Bar Weights, and Pinch Grip Just About Anything" by Robert Spindler and Tommy Heslep, is a book which outlines Heslep's grip strength and grip training. He clearly states that finger extension work is helpful for hand health. Most athletes, however, never seem to progress their extensor strength at all, preferring to keep to the same load and sets and reps, whilst striving to massively increase their grip itself. While it is obviously necessary for athletes to avoid unnecessary bulk, it is important that antagonists should have a reasonable level of strength as compared to agonists and I can only think it helpful to train extensors. There is an argument that the finger extensors are heavily involved in stabilising the hand in all movements and so they do not require training by opening the hand against, e.g.; the resistance of a band. Instead, some athletes suggest that pinch gripping is the best way to target the extensors and maintain hand health whilst improving another aspect of functional grip strength. This may be the reason why climbers, who use static holds and moves similar to "pinch" grips, are not experiencing any problems from the strength imbalance, esp. if the strength of their extensors is being tested solely by some sort of hand opening movement. (I have no idea how finger extensor strength might be measured. If you do, I would be very interested to know.) I am not a doctor nor scientist, but have been involved in strength and grip strength training for years. I have found that some extensor work - with e.g.; bands and some pinching movements does help with fatigue and longer term reduces pain from excessive training. I have also found that it makes sense to (very) gradually increase the resistance and not just pump out endless reps - even though these might help with rehab and flushing out injuries. On the other hand, attempting near maximal loading is not sensible. There is a world of difference between lifting an external weight or trying to close a very hard gripper and trying to move fingers that are being compressed by tight bands. Even submaximal loads, where the movement is possible but very difficult, impacts the extensors in a different way than the same number of reps in other exercises. I have found that pushing the loading too much can aggravate elbow injuries, but moderate reps are great. I tend to be impatient, but sticking with a moderate/high rep scheme for a long while and only adding very light resistance as the reps get to the higher end seems to make the best sense. Even then, this does not mean doing high frequency exercise. Because the extensors are involved in every hand movement, training them to the point of fatigue is going to compromise subsequent skill work. By the way, a pet peeve of mine - pronunciation: just as the initial and the final "C" in "concentric" are both hard, so it is with "eccentric". It is not pronounced "ee-sentric", but "ek-centric" - "ek" is the same as the "eks" in "exodus" - meaning "the way out" and comes from Latin into English in "Exit" "out of/away from" - despite the spelling it has the same "eks" sound. So "eccentric" movements are technically "movements away", but in sports science the term is normally applied to the working muscles lengthening.
The way I look at it, Rice Bucket is a good way to get increased blood flow through the hands before I do rehab exercises/warm up for rehab or before I warm up for my fingerboarding. I doubt anyone does rice bucket for 5 minutes and then straight up tries their max hangs. It would go fullbody warmup>ricebucket>fingerboard pulls>climbing for warmup order. For example, I'd see it more like doing some leg exercises like step ups/jumping jacks before doing progressively heavier squatting exercises before you do your max squat lifts. That being said, I'm also in the +1 for pure desperation camp lol
Watching this is like someone entering in a plastic kids pool splashing some water and then concluding swimming is not a good exercise. A good analysis depends on making it right and for a few weeks at least and than judging it.... this analysis lack all these... dog water
I don't use Rice Bucket training to warmup. Rather, I use it to cool down. When I'm at the gym I warmup, climb really hard for a couple hours and then lift really hard/ train my fingers after. When I get home I am completely gassed. I use my rice bucket to promote blood flow to my fingers and forearms after putting nutrients in my body. I find that my fingers and forearms feel far less stiff the following day when I'm consistent with my rice bucket cool downs. I also specifically like them for this part of my training because I know I can't "overdo" it. If I were to cool down with any device that used a weighted system, I would have a very difficult time not upping the weight and trying to max out. Even with a resistance band or something like that, I'd want to upgrade to a stiffer band and could easily injure myself after going max effort in the gym. Rice is the safe, effective method of choice for me. Also, my forearms have increased in size from 29cm Left to now 30cm and 30cm to 31cm on right in 21 days of experimenting with the bucket.
This question is a bit unrelated to the actual topic, but anyhow: If research doesn't show that the discrepancy between the strength of the flexor digitorum and the extensor digitorum is a problem, does that also mean that training the extensor digitorum specifically with e.g. rubber bands or power fingers does not make a lot of sense from a prehab point of view?
Hah good question! We have a good relationship with this local gym (The Wall) and we go in bright and early before it opens to the public hence why it's empty :)
Could you do a video or briefly talk about how a skinny climber can go about gaining some muscle mass without completely degrading performance. I don’t wanna get body builder bulky, but just build some muscle particularly on my upper body just so I can look more athletic and strong. If I stick in the 6-10 rep range, twice a week, with an easy technique day preceding each weight session, will I effectively maintain my climbing ability while building muscle without risking injury or degrading my climbing performance?
That would be a great video topic! In the meantime: you definitely don't have to worry about getting too bulky. Body builders work HARD and eat A TON to get the mass they do. Especially if you're slim due to genetics, you'll have a very hard time gaining "too much mass" for climbing :)
Just anecdotally, I dropped to 5 reps and pushed max weight much harder. 2-3 minute breaks between sets required, I spend that doing hip mobility. Set a goal weight then stay there and build back up reps.
Your metal bucket is too small. (You don't have enough rice, or depth of rice). Of course (you think) it's not intensive because you're objectively doing it wrong in too small of a bucket. You need to use a 5 gallon bucket filled at least 3/4 full.
6 minute follow along workout: th-cam.com/video/iVum3vWlh4Q/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=OnlykindsFitness Matt Mask (professional armwrestler) talking about the rice bucket workout: th-cam.com/video/zOl0pcIBnBA/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=MattMask
@@HoopersBeta Don't use a prop. If you're going to talk about a workout, demonstrate it properly, and with the correct equipment. Demonstrating the workout improperly and with the incorrect equipment is providing misinformation to people, and about a subject most people are unfamiliar with. (Not that this was your intention). But your video would be the equivalent if "I" made a grip strength training video, about training your grip strength with rock climbing and on climbing walls, but on my demonstration video I used an 8ft tall, plastic climbing wall for kids... Then my conclusion was: "Actually, this isn't a very good workout. The hand holds are huge, and you can basically walk up this thing. I'd pass on climbing as a workout and wouldn't recommend it to anybody". The average person is much more familiar with climbing than they are with the rice bucket workout (that definitely includes you), so most people don't have enough experience to judge whether this video is giving good information or not. (It is not)
I'm only interested in training to increase forearm size . I'm not a climber,or pitcher. How can I find out which exercises to do, for that only? Anyone???
Okay, see, the use of the rice bucket makes some little sense for climbing. But I've seen people using rice squeezin as a big part of their ""iron fist"" training, which I find baffling.
I broke both my hands on separate occasions (third metacarpal). Had two get plates and screws in each of them. Of course I did more traditional rehab with weights, bands, and e-stim but I started with rice to regain some strength and mobility. It also helped tremendously in desensitizing the break and scar area since they were huge pressure points that caused a fair amount discomfort even after I was given the all clear by my doctors and pt. Overall I think its a great exercise but its not enough on its own.
Fluidotherapy, which is pretty similar to rice buckets, definitely has a benefit for people with serious injuries to their hand that are seeking to improve mobility. I don't think it's very useful for most climbers, but someone treating skiers thumb would be well-served mobilizing their hand with it before beginning more serious rehab (resistance, putty, stretching, etc.)
I have carpal tunnel in both wrists, often wake up having to work my hands manually with the other hand or against a flat surface like my table. Would this help with that? I have issues with over squeezing things or not squeezing tight enough and dropping things while pretty much not having any feeling or a tingling feeling constantly.
Yes dude rice bucket is great for this. I spend way too much time on a computer.. if I am doing rice bucket consistently I have zero pain in my forearms.
There are allways lots of reasons not to do something. But as someone who is nowhere near the realm of optimising my training I like to incorporate it and it has helped rehab a chip fracture and tendon damage on my wrist from football. Not a huge climber as im 200lbs but I still like to climb
If you are not injured is not the best option to make you stronger But i heard some people saying that does a good hipertrofy in your hands But if you are injured i thinks is the best option with eccentric work with weights For now i’m trying the rice and it feels good and is fun
I don't think that it would be great for hypertrophy training unless your tissue is not that strong. Hypertrophy training requires (from most recent literature) at least about 30% of your 1 rep max effort to properly promote hypertrophy. You're better off using other means of resistance training if hypertrophy is your goal as the rice is simply not easy to progress. But, if you think it feels good and is fun then that sounds great! Fun+ feels good is a good combination.
I've never used a rice bucket before, but I'd be curious if the dry rice pressing against your fingers and hand provide a sensation similar to a sensory ring. The question there though is what benefits that feel-good sensation is providing, if any?
I also wondered about this. For those that have reported a perceived improvement, maybe it was a nervous system improvement they were feeling. More sensory input = better motor output? Not sure if this research directly relates because I don't have a sub to Pubmed and can't read the whole thing (nor would I understand it), but there appear to be lots of related articles. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12171136/
Not a rice bucket stan, but doesn’t the “deeply claw/beak pierce the rice and then open your hand” exercise target eccentric movement? Or do you specifically mean for the wrist
@@HoopersBeta I think they mean if you shove your fist to the bottom of the rice bucket and open your hand, maintaining that position as you pull back out would count as an eccentric exercise. Not sure though because that’s isometric.
@@daedyg793 yeah the opening of the hand would be concentric activation of the extensor digitorum, then as you pull your hand out of the bucket it would be an isometric (as you mentioned). So, I wouldn't really count that as an eccentric since you aren't lengthening under a load. Good recognition and share though!
You could get eccentric by extending your fingers out at the bottom of the bucket and resisting yet letting them slowly come together as you pull out, or the opposite of starting in and resisting while allowing them to extend out while you push down
The one time I had a pulley (mild tear) injury was because of overuse after doing a light rice bucket session during a "rest day", it was the first and last time I used it too. Needless to say, It doesn't have a warm fuzzy place in my heart.
Hi, After a couple of days of a pulley sprain (after the acute phase) I have found it very helpful to do rice bucket just to get blood flow and very small resistance for the injured finger. That and then, after doing rice bucket as a “warm up”, starting to load the injured finger with a hangboard is a good way to heal a small injury. But I fully agree that it is not good for warming up pre climbing, strength training or rehab (except in the beginning when a really small load still triggers the pain). But that is just my experience.
What do you think? Do you agree with my reasons or did I miss something?
PS the metal bucket we used was just a prop - too small to actually be useful as a rice bucket
I don't know... what about beans? What if beans are more effective? Legumes maybe? Pasta? The one shaped like a screw? Oh I know, chickpeas. They are bigger and harder. What about combinations of foods to get the benefits from many of them? If scientists don't make comprehensive research for every possible food we will never know. Now that I am thinking about it why not dip our feet in there as well? For ankle sprains?
@@joji_okami hah I think those are great ideas! But I think their benefit would be better served as nutrition than as wrist training 😉
Did you go dumpster diving for that bucket? Half expected tetanus shot footy in the bloopers.
Also, the infomercial is a masterpiece.
What do you think of tendon glides - even less resistance?
@@leoingson less resistance, but higher convenience factor. Easy to do while walking, chatting, etc. Similar to how I would treat rice bucket training (if I did it), tendon glides serve as just an initial movement to help improve mobility of the tendons and joints in the hands and wrists, while also gently improving blood flow. They should then be followed up with more advanced warm up techniques.
Definitely think you missed some of the key points of rice bucket training here. One of the biggest (and least measurable) reasons I have a rice bucket next to the TV is for active recovery. I often find that even just 1 session a week after a hard climbing day leaves my fingers and forearms feeling much, much more recovered the next day. That's not because it's always working the specific muscles used in the supporting grips for climbing, but because facilitates one of the most beneficial body functions for repair: blood flow. I can't name any other exercise that I can do in my home that gets a large amount of blood into my hands (the hands are a huge one!) and forearms without a pump or creating overload of any kind if I don't want it to.
Secondly, rice buckets are one of the easiest ways to train lactic capacity in the forearms. It's extremely easy to basically mirror the demands of a difficult sport route as far as your forearm is concerned, and you can just repeatedly hit that threshold without any risk of strain on your pulleys (because, like you said, they're hardly getting worked) as long/as hard as you can stand. This is a limiting factor for all sport climbers at some time or another.
And also, in terms of training concentrics and not eccentrics: yes, probably not optimal in a rehab setting, but under most circumstances, climbers basically never do eccentrics for the lower arm in their training; it's entirely concentrics and isometrics, and the rice bucket can train isometrics in such a way that no other exercise can do (for example, keeping your fingers relatively neutral/straight and pointing, stir the rice as deep as you can clockwise and counter: you're basically asking each finger to stabilize isometrically in every direction).
One other point we all know, over-specialization in particular movements for long periods of time tends to increase the risk of injury, and the rice bucket provides relatively novel stimulus to this highly specialized area (as far as climbing training is concerned).
In terms of progression, I think it's a bit backwards to say that it should be discounted because it's hard to measure progress (yes, for specific scenarios, measurement is better, but not doing something because you can't measure it directly is definitely not optimal). You can, also, progress it the way you would progress any other exercise: increase "rep" duration, increase number of sets, decrease rest between sets, introduce more challenging exercises, add resistance (stick hands deeper), increase training frequency, switch from rice to beans, etc etc. However, for my purposes at least, progression often isn't the goal, it's recovery - and like I said before, if the goal is to train lactic acid/"pump" recovery, I'll just increase the amount of rounds or the duration.
I'll also say, for any sort of lactic acid type training, or even in most rice bucket training, you actually have to exert effort which I think lots of people don't do for some reason. I break out in a full body sweat pretty quickly, and I'm not a sweaty person. I do have years of weight training/powerlifting under my belt though, which is why I'm confident in how to progress and how to repeatedly exert maximum effort.
I think this point can’t be understated. With rice bucket training, you get out what you put in. I love some of the points you made here 👊
MVP for mentioning isometrics.
Anecdotally speaking, I've had a series of finger and hand injuries over the past few years and there are no exercises that have made me FEEL healthier than the rice bucket. It is not a complete warm up by any means, but the difference that rice bucketing with finger flicks, wrist rotations, and back & forth finger drags for about 20 minutes makes before moving onto more comprehensive warm ups can not be understated. Doing other forms of finger warm ups like mobile board rows and light hang board recruitments without the rice bucket have always made the start of my sessions feel kinda tweaky and dangerous. When using the bucket first, my fingers feel really healthy and warm. I'm not sure about the actual science behind this, but I have a suspicion it has to do with promoted blood flow, and the even recruitment of all parts of the hand & forearm. I've noticed it also greatly helps with the mobility of my hands. If I climb without the rice bucket, I find I am unable to close my hand all the way without a great amount of resistance. When I use it regularly, I am able to do this easily. Additionally, I find it extremely helpful for a cool down as well to prevent injury. After a hard pulling session, I'll generally feel very tweaky in the pulleys. This feeling almost immediately goes away after using the bucket. Finally, I think the mental aspect of the rice bucket is a positive factor as well. It's really therapeutic and satisfying to do, and it makes you feel really cool - like bruce lee or something -. Doing this zen, repetitive exercise before a session generally calms me down and prevents me from over-gripping or getting into a frustrated headspace. It is easier to focus and feel happy when climbing (which I think is the point of climbing to begin with). My experience with the rice bucket has been overwhelmingly positive and has made a tangible difference for my climbing in a variety of ways. I understand the points this video is making, and they are super valid. That being said I just wanted to share this here so no one gets turned away from at least trying it!
I think the point about over gripping is interesting.
To top this off as a massage therapist that more often does deep tissue massage I have a similar sentiment. My hands feel much more mobile and 'happier' after a 10 or 20 minute rice bucket session, especially when the rice has gotten below freezing overnight outside and I bring it in for a morning session.
I'd love to see a review of some of Knees Over Toes Guy's excersizes in the context of climbing.
Anything in particular?
@@HoopersBeta full range of motion activated by the climbing foot work and use of toe hook/heel.hook for the pulling partof leg exercices ( tybialis )
That intro was hilarious, especially the phone number!
Rice buckets are an amazing tool for wrist conditioning and for helping with elbow tendinitis, less so for finger related injuries although extensor work always helps. It wouldn't be the only tool I use when rehabbing but it's always a core part of my arsenal when I'm rehabbing wrist and elbow injuries/tweaks. I don't believe there's any other tool that targets every single muscle in the wrist/forearm and plains of motion quite like the rice bucket does (albeit purely concentric and isometrically). I also believe rice bucketing is the quickest way to get blood into the forearms and fingers before beginning a more targeted strengthening/rehab exercise like hangboarding.
There is the issue of rice buckets being very diverse tools; the type of rice you use, the size of the bucket and depth at which you perform each exercise will vary greatly and produce wildly different results. I use thin basmati in a large bucket which offers quite a lot of resistance and gets me pumped very quickly, using larger grains in a small bucket offers far less resistance and isn't applicable for my rehabbing needs.
What about sand ?
Be nice to see alternatives that aren’t just the targeted pulls. Seems like a rice bucket is like a yoga mat, lots of different exercises may be performed within.
About a decade ago I had an injury that prevented me from climbing. Over 6 weeks my only hand exercise was the rice bucket. At the end of those 6 weeks, my hand grip dynamometer values actually went up 4 lbs (dominant) and 5 lbs (non-dominant) I didn't climb or do pull-ups, dumbells or anything else during that time. When I started using the hang board again after those 6 weeks my times did drop but rapidly recovered and even bypassed my previous times. I appreciate your attempt to base this on data and be objective but I really think you missed something here.
Great video! Really funny. I use a rice bucket and vary my resistance with the depth. It gets a lot more difficult as the packing under weight effect of the increases the deeper you go. Finger extension is hard to replicate with other exercises. The real reason I do it is because if popped out a new vein in the top of my forearm that I hadn't seen before. Keep up the good work!
I use a rice bucket for 2 minutes at the beginning of my warmup to help warmup my wrists and fingers before doing some light hangs. Maybe it is placebo, but those 2 minutes of rice bucket makes the first few hangs feel significantly less tweaky than if i just hop straight on a fingerboard. Without the rice bucket, my warmup takes about 10 minutes longer to get everything gliding smoothly.
Hi, although Jujimufu showed (on youtube) that climbers have world class grip/finger strength, when Magnus Magnus Midtbø unofficially beat the heavyweight hub pinch grip record, I still think that climbers might have something to learn from grip strength athletes. Typically, grip athletes do train finger extensors (although not heavily) in order to keep something of a balance with finger flexors. They do this for hand health and because it does seem to aid recovery from heavy gripping. "Grip Strength: How to Close Heavy Duty Hand Grippers, Lift Thick Bar Weights, and Pinch Grip Just About Anything" by Robert Spindler and Tommy Heslep, is a book which outlines Heslep's grip strength and grip training. He clearly states that finger extension work is helpful for hand health. Most athletes, however, never seem to progress their extensor strength at all, preferring to keep to the same load and sets and reps, whilst striving to massively increase their grip itself. While it is obviously necessary for athletes to avoid unnecessary bulk, it is important that antagonists should have a reasonable level of strength as compared to agonists and I can only think it helpful to train extensors.
There is an argument that the finger extensors are heavily involved in stabilising the hand in all movements and so they do not require training by opening the hand against, e.g.; the resistance of a band. Instead, some athletes suggest that pinch gripping is the best way to target the extensors and maintain hand health whilst improving another aspect of functional grip strength. This may be the reason why climbers, who use static holds and moves similar to "pinch" grips, are not experiencing any problems from the strength imbalance, esp. if the strength of their extensors is being tested solely by some sort of hand opening movement. (I have no idea how finger extensor strength might be measured. If you do, I would be very interested to know.)
I am not a doctor nor scientist, but have been involved in strength and grip strength training for years. I have found that some extensor work - with e.g.; bands and some pinching movements does help with fatigue and longer term reduces pain from excessive training. I have also found that it makes sense to (very) gradually increase the resistance and not just pump out endless reps - even though these might help with rehab and flushing out injuries. On the other hand, attempting near maximal loading is not sensible. There is a world of difference between lifting an external weight or trying to close a very hard gripper and trying to move fingers that are being compressed by tight bands. Even submaximal loads, where the movement is possible but very difficult, impacts the extensors in a different way than the same number of reps in other exercises. I have found that pushing the loading too much can aggravate elbow injuries, but moderate reps are great. I tend to be impatient, but sticking with a moderate/high rep scheme for a long while and only adding very light resistance as the reps get to the higher end seems to make the best sense.
Even then, this does not mean doing high frequency exercise. Because the extensors are involved in every hand movement, training them to the point of fatigue is going to compromise subsequent skill work.
By the way, a pet peeve of mine - pronunciation: just as the initial and the final "C" in "concentric" are both hard, so it is with "eccentric". It is not pronounced "ee-sentric", but "ek-centric" - "ek" is the same as the "eks" in "exodus" - meaning "the way out" and comes from Latin into English in "Exit" "out of/away from" - despite the spelling it has the same "eks" sound. So "eccentric" movements are technically "movements away", but in sports science the term is normally applied to the working muscles lengthening.
The way I look at it, Rice Bucket is a good way to get increased blood flow through the hands before I do rehab exercises/warm up for rehab or before I warm up for my fingerboarding. I doubt anyone does rice bucket for 5 minutes and then straight up tries their max hangs. It would go fullbody warmup>ricebucket>fingerboard pulls>climbing for warmup order. For example, I'd see it more like doing some leg exercises like step ups/jumping jacks before doing progressively heavier squatting exercises before you do your max squat lifts. That being said, I'm also in the +1 for pure desperation camp lol
Thanks for sharing! That's a good way to look at it, very thorough approach. I also love the final sentence hah 😅
Passive hangs, scap pulls or dumbbell finger rolls during your full body warm up would achieve the same result, no?
Don't listen to this goof.
Watching this is like someone entering in a plastic kids pool splashing some water and then concluding swimming is not a good exercise. A good analysis depends on making it right and for a few weeks at least and than judging it.... this analysis lack all these... dog water
discrediting this because it's not research backed is a massive L
I've had people tell me I've gotta try this for years, and I've always meant to, but then I just ended up eating it.
sweaty risotto
Yummy!
I don't use Rice Bucket training to warmup. Rather, I use it to cool down. When I'm at the gym I warmup, climb really hard for a couple hours and then lift really hard/ train my fingers after. When I get home I am completely gassed.
I use my rice bucket to promote blood flow to my fingers and forearms after putting nutrients in my body. I find that my fingers and forearms feel far less stiff the following day when I'm consistent with my rice bucket cool downs.
I also specifically like them for this part of my training because I know I can't "overdo" it. If I were to cool down with any device that used a weighted system, I would have a very difficult time not upping the weight and trying to max out. Even with a resistance band or something like that, I'd want to upgrade to a stiffer band and could easily injure myself after going max effort in the gym. Rice is the safe, effective method of choice for me. Also, my forearms have increased in size from 29cm Left to now 30cm and 30cm to 31cm on right in 21 days of experimenting with the bucket.
This question is a bit unrelated to the actual topic, but anyhow: If research doesn't show that the discrepancy between the strength of the flexor digitorum and the extensor digitorum is a problem, does that also mean that training the extensor digitorum specifically with e.g. rubber bands or power fingers does not make a lot of sense from a prehab point of view?
Hilarious intro, but I tried that phone number and it went directly to Chris Sharma's voicemail and said "mailbox is full"
C'mon Sharma, clear your messages every now and then! 😅
By far the best warmup for climbing is overgripping the steering wheel on the way to the crag/gym. White knickle driving is the best warmup!
Just watch out for those steering wheel dry-fires!
@@HoopersBeta chalk is a must. Or at least a fancy suede steering wheel cover.
Great to hear your opinion on this!
Thanks for watching!
Why do you always have an empty gym available for shooting? 😄
Hah good question! We have a good relationship with this local gym (The Wall) and we go in bright and early before it opens to the public hence why it's empty :)
nice work, thank you. I had been wondering from a rehab perspective and this was informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Could you do a video or briefly talk about how a skinny climber can go about gaining some muscle mass without completely degrading performance. I don’t wanna get body builder bulky, but just build some muscle particularly on my upper body just so I can look more athletic and strong. If I stick in the 6-10 rep range, twice a week, with an easy technique day preceding each weight session, will I effectively maintain my climbing ability while building muscle without risking injury or degrading my climbing performance?
That would be a great video topic! In the meantime: you definitely don't have to worry about getting too bulky. Body builders work HARD and eat A TON to get the mass they do. Especially if you're slim due to genetics, you'll have a very hard time gaining "too much mass" for climbing :)
Just anecdotally, I dropped to 5 reps and pushed max weight much harder. 2-3 minute breaks between sets required, I spend that doing hip mobility. Set a goal weight then stay there and build back up reps.
Your metal bucket is too small. (You don't have enough rice, or depth of rice). Of course (you think) it's not intensive because you're objectively doing it wrong in too small of a bucket.
You need to use a 5 gallon bucket filled at least 3/4 full.
6 minute follow along workout: th-cam.com/video/iVum3vWlh4Q/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=OnlykindsFitness
Matt Mask (professional armwrestler) talking about the rice bucket workout: th-cam.com/video/zOl0pcIBnBA/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=MattMask
Totally fair observation, but the bucket was just a prop for the video. We didn’t base our conclusions on our experience with that bucket :)
@@HoopersBeta Don't use a prop. If you're going to talk about a workout, demonstrate it properly, and with the correct equipment.
Demonstrating the workout improperly and with the incorrect equipment is providing misinformation to people, and about a subject most people are unfamiliar with. (Not that this was your intention).
But your video would be the equivalent if "I" made a grip strength training video, about training your grip strength with rock climbing and on climbing walls, but on my demonstration video I used an 8ft tall, plastic climbing wall for kids... Then my conclusion was: "Actually, this isn't a very good workout. The hand holds are huge, and you can basically walk up this thing. I'd pass on climbing as a workout and wouldn't recommend it to anybody".
The average person is much more familiar with climbing than they are with the rice bucket workout (that definitely includes you), so most people don't have enough experience to judge whether this video is giving good information or not. (It is not)
Nailed the intro 😂
I'm only interested in training to increase forearm size . I'm not a climber,or pitcher. How can I find out which exercises to do, for that only? Anyone???
You could use it to open hands with, but most people could find a rubber band I'd think lol
Okay, see, the use of the rice bucket makes some little sense for climbing. But I've seen people using rice squeezin as a big part of their ""iron fist"" training, which I find baffling.
Iron fist....no, iron claw....yes
I broke both my hands on separate occasions (third metacarpal). Had two get plates and screws in each of them. Of course I did more traditional rehab with weights, bands, and e-stim but I started with rice to regain some strength and mobility. It also helped tremendously in desensitizing the break and scar area since they were huge pressure points that caused a fair amount discomfort even after I was given the all clear by my doctors and pt.
Overall I think its a great exercise but its not enough on its own.
Weird crossover but this intro has so much Game Sack energy
That bucket bonk in the information was golden XD
Fluidotherapy, which is pretty similar to rice buckets, definitely has a benefit for people with serious injuries to their hand that are seeking to improve mobility.
I don't think it's very useful for most climbers, but someone treating skiers thumb would be well-served mobilizing their hand with it before beginning more serious rehab (resistance, putty, stretching, etc.)
I have carpal tunnel in both wrists, often wake up having to work my hands manually with the other hand or against a flat surface like my table. Would this help with that? I have issues with over squeezing things or not squeezing tight enough and dropping things while pretty much not having any feeling or a tingling feeling constantly.
Yes dude rice bucket is great for this. I spend way too much time on a computer.. if I am doing rice bucket consistently I have zero pain in my forearms.
Ah man, I just bought 3 sacks of rice and ordered the new wide boyz hand buckets to start training... I guess it's back to the drawing board.
At least the rice doubles as food! Haha
There are allways lots of reasons not to do something. But as someone who is nowhere near the realm of optimising my training I like to incorporate it and it has helped rehab a chip fracture and tendon damage on my wrist from football. Not a huge climber as im 200lbs but I still like to climb
Sometimes all you need is the simple reason of why you do want to do it to make it worthwhile :)
Im gonna ask my gym to buy a bucket of rice.
If you are not injured is not the best option to make you stronger
But i heard some people saying that does a good hipertrofy in your hands
But if you are injured i thinks is the best option with eccentric work with weights
For now i’m trying the rice and it feels good and is fun
I don't think that it would be great for hypertrophy training unless your tissue is not that strong. Hypertrophy training requires (from most recent literature) at least about 30% of your 1 rep max effort to properly promote hypertrophy. You're better off using other means of resistance training if hypertrophy is your goal as the rice is simply not easy to progress.
But, if you think it feels good and is fun then that sounds great! Fun+ feels good is a good combination.
The chill music is very similar to the round preview for Jomez disc golf. But I want to hear more about the rice butt warm up.
haha, new technique to climb V17
Subscribed within the first min
Yo the metal jam at the end of the advertisement is amazing. Need the song , bro.
Here's the link (it's on Artlist.io): artlist.io/song/81400/warriors-of-the-past
😂😂😂😂 I love this intro!!!
The long awaited discussion!
If you start with a closed fist and open it in the rice bucket, isn't that an eccentric movement?
No sorry 😔 just a concentric for the finger extensors.
@@HoopersBeta I see thanks. I misunderstood what eccentric meant
Gold intro 😂
You can do it with needles so that it toughens your skin on top of strengthening your hands.
Yikes! Sounds too hardcore for me :P
Broken glass also works great!
Nice!
I've never used a rice bucket before, but I'd be curious if the dry rice pressing against your fingers and hand provide a sensation similar to a sensory ring. The question there though is what benefits that feel-good sensation is providing, if any?
Good question! It is a potential benefit but who knows to what extent.
I also wondered about this. For those that have reported a perceived improvement, maybe it was a nervous system improvement they were feeling. More sensory input = better motor output?
Not sure if this research directly relates because I don't have a sub to Pubmed and can't read the whole thing (nor would I understand it), but there appear to be lots of related articles.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12171136/
cook the rice first.. way better.
Then I'd just want to eat it
Haha dude this was hilarious 🤣
Thanks for the great content as ever 🙏 I won’t be going near a rice bucket anytime soon !
Glad you enjoyed! We had fun making that one :)
algogogo
Not a rice bucket stan, but doesn’t the “deeply claw/beak pierce the rice and then open your hand” exercise target eccentric movement? Or do you specifically mean for the wrist
Any links to those specific exercises? Not finding anything with those names in my brief search.
@@HoopersBeta I think they mean if you shove your fist to the bottom of the rice bucket and open your hand, maintaining that position as you pull back out would count as an eccentric exercise. Not sure though because that’s isometric.
@@daedyg793 yeah the opening of the hand would be concentric activation of the extensor digitorum, then as you pull your hand out of the bucket it would be an isometric (as you mentioned). So, I wouldn't really count that as an eccentric since you aren't lengthening under a load. Good recognition and share though!
You could get eccentric by extending your fingers out at the bottom of the bucket and resisting yet letting them slowly come together as you pull out, or the opposite of starting in and resisting while allowing them to extend out while you push down
This channel is criminally underrated, the combination of meme-ness humor, science and convert-science-to-climbing-in-real-life is just awesome
Thanks so much, you made my day :)
-Emile
The one time I had a pulley (mild tear) injury was because of overuse after doing a light rice bucket session during a "rest day", it was the first and last time I used it too. Needless to say, It doesn't have a warm fuzzy place in my heart.
Bro full crimping that rice
Let's not forget that the humidity from the hands ruins the rice!
I certainly don't want to eat it after running my hands through it! Lol.
@@HoopersBeta then that's a big waste of food!
Hi,
After a couple of days of a pulley sprain (after the acute phase) I have found it very helpful to do rice bucket just to get blood flow and very small resistance for the injured finger. That and then, after doing rice bucket as a “warm up”, starting to load the injured finger with a hangboard is a good way to heal a small injury.
But I fully agree that it is not good for warming up pre climbing, strength training or rehab (except in the beginning when a really small load still triggers the pain). But that is just my experience.
Good share! Glad you found it to be helpful with your rehab and incorporated other exercises as well.
F
A