Having worked in the Maritime Shipping Industry for 32 years (the last was 14 as a VTSO) & being a Military Reservist for the same 32 years in Australia, I really get a kick out of watching Drach, Sal & Dr Clarke do their thing on their respective TH-cam channels. Between them, they cover both the Military & Commercial side of shipping, both historically & into modern times (Drach not so much modern). Have had the pleasure of meeting both Drach & Dr Clarke on their recent trip to Australia. Cheers guys.
Boys study tactics. Men study logistics. I don't think its possible for me to nerd out anymore about this meeting of the YouTuibe minds to wax poetically about one of my favorite subjects!!!
Regarding logisctics as THE thing, the same is true on land. Sweden did test an mechanized battalion vs a light infantry force in urban envirnment some 20 years ago. The infantry hid in basements, the "teet" was allowed to take their targets with no fight. Then all fuel and ammo trucks was wiped out and the umpires called it for the home team.
I enjoy listening to these talks most in my car (video off, of course). Because there I can have a finger on the volume dial, ready to respond to Alex' excitement.
Hi everyone, whilst chrismas comes but once a year, two historians is happening once per week to bring discussion and understanding to our past and possible future
Greetings from Australia, Dr Clark our television lineup for Xmas day that we watched included Thunderbirds Are Go from 1966 and Wallace and Gromit A Grand Day Out and A Matter of Loaf and Death. Great to see you with Sal I hope you get the opportunity to do more lives and videos together and maybe have Drach on at the same time as well for a Holy Trinity of naval youtubers.
we used to include Jamie Siedel of Armoured Carriers quite often for the Four Horseman of Navalopolis on Bilgepumps... so who knows, but honestly it's hard enough co-ordinating two calendars... to get four, is just...
55:50 Not just that but look at how many people serve in the navy vs the army during those conflicts. When those veterans survive and return home, most of the stories are going to be about soldiers and their experience. Furthermore, most people have walked through a field or dug a hole (in a sand pit as a child at the very least) but you can’t say the same about sailing a yacht or operating a motorboat. With the demise of national merchant marines, the naval and maritime domain is as unfamiliar to the general public as the military is removed from civilian experience today.
There's a venn diagram of anime,maritime warfare and autism (which I am right in the middle) The discussion on how logistics is neglected or unconsciously left in the background rather than forefront of military officers reminded me of this scene from one of the classics "Legend of Galactic Heroes" in which in a flashback to one of the main lead's military academy days in which he Yang Wen Li was average in every subject saved military history was asked to compete in a wargaming simulation against a rival who was considered a tactical genius at maneuver (had like 100 to 0 winrate) by peers and teachers . He won by attacking the supply ship something in which none of these cadets in a practical but simulated environment would think of. Sort of like James T. Kirk "cheating" at the Kobayashi Maru. Love the chat gentlemen, especially with how politicians want to snag big ticket flashy items or associate with the frontline without actually thinking about the bigger picture of sustainment. Merry christmas to both of you
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to try to make sense of it all, gentlemen! You two, along with Drach, Perun (subscribed to you all!) and one or two of my exMatelot and, especially, Merchant Navy mates do illustrate the realities of how tricky and fragile the sustaining of international trade is. (And has been since the Bronze Age, as far as I can tell!) Nadolig Llawen I Chi!😊
I'm so happy the two of have been bringing home the issue of shipping, both commercial and military. Like everything else the US has been happy to turn over all aspects of shipping to foreign countries. All we need to do is create a demand for domestic sailors, officers, and ships and the market will respond. President Trump has the right idea, tariff every foreign ship flagged that ports here, ease bureaucratic regulations on domestic licensing and construction and ,if necessary, provide incentives. What a great career to serve on or command a merchant vessel
You, are clueless about economics then, because it does not work that way. So you slap tariffs from say China. What do companies using that steel in the US do? They look for the next cheapest source of steel is what they do. News flash. Thats not in the US. Now if the US puts tariffs on all non US steel, there comes the second problem. Even if the US steel industry was as efficient as their foreign competitors (which it s not), they cannot charge the same prices because their labour costs are FAR higher than in say China, or Malaysia. So if US companies are forced to buy US steel, those costs get passed to the customer in the form of increased prices. Then to make it worse productivity drops because the US steel industry simply cannot manufacture enough steel. They do not have the plant, facilities, infrastructure or trained workforce. So now you have to build those things, which takes time, as in years, and during that period steel gets more and more expensive because now you have a steel shortage. And now you have a bunch of expensive goods that no one outside of the US will buy because they can get the same thing for a much lower price, and the US export market nose dives because no one will pay what they are demanding. And try as you might you cannot force people from other countries to buy your product. If there is no demand there is no demand. Add to that your statement that: All we need to do is create a demand for domestic sailors, officers, and ships and the market will respond, is one born of both breathtaking arrogance, and a complete ignorance of what you are trying to achieve. The massive juggernaut that is modern Chinese Shipbuilding did not simply happen because the 'market responded', it happened because of a deliberate and very long term strategy of intensive government funding in infrastructure and workforce training that literally took half a CENTURY to achieve. You are not pulling that kind of thing off in a year or two no matter what some stupid orange blowhard might rant and rave about... Heavy industry moved from the US because it is cheaper to mass manufacture goods in places with low labour costs and then ship them to where they are to be sold than it is to manufacture the same goods in high labour cost regions. Its that simple and you are NOT going to change it. One day China will be facing the same problem. Mass manufacture will start moving to places like some African nations as wages thus labour costs slowly increase in China. Labour costs matter, and to really push the point home I do not see Trump moving his textile factories from Mexico to the US... Why is that? Labour costs....
I think a large part of why the USA was willing to pay the pirates back then and not now is because of the we don't negotiate with terrorists and dont show weakness mentality. A lot of us policies revolve around power projection so if they can do that effectively it kinda falls apart.
Another thing politicians love, at least British Politicians, is 'Force Multipliers'. Now I am all for Force multipliers, anything that, for example, helps the Infantry do its job better, more efficiently, and with fewer casualties is worth investing in in my book. But those force multipliers are only any use if the FORCE part is there. Take away the infantry and all the force multipliers in the Army are worth precisely nothing as there is no Force to multiply, and multiplying a million by zero is still zero.... And thats the part British politicians cannot seem to get their heads around. And its a problem at the moment, because not only is infantry recruitment a serious problem in the British Army at the moment because of silly little things like crap pay, but infantry retention is also at the lowest point I can remember, again because of silly little things like crap pay.... Given the parlous state of the infantry at the moment, and the utter lack of depth in the reserves, the recent report that the British Army would be expended in a war like that in Ukraine in six to twelve months is somewhat... optimistic... And the problem, is political.
It’s like old times. Good to see you collaborating!!
Having worked in the Maritime Shipping Industry for 32 years (the last was 14 as a VTSO) & being a Military Reservist for the same 32 years in Australia, I really get a kick out of watching Drach, Sal & Dr Clarke do their thing on their respective TH-cam channels. Between them, they cover both the Military & Commercial side of shipping, both historically & into modern times (Drach not so much modern).
Have had the pleasure of meeting both Drach & Dr Clarke on their recent trip to Australia.
Cheers guys.
Boys study tactics. Men study logistics. I don't think its possible for me to nerd out anymore about this meeting of the YouTuibe minds to wax poetically about one of my favorite subjects!!!
Regarding logisctics as THE thing, the same is true on land. Sweden did test an mechanized battalion vs a light infantry force in urban envirnment some 20 years ago. The infantry hid in basements, the "teet" was allowed to take their targets with no fight. Then all fuel and ammo trucks was wiped out and the umpires called it for the home team.
I am watching this again 😊
I enjoy listening to these talks most in my car (video off, of course). Because there I can have a finger on the volume dial, ready to respond to Alex' excitement.
Always good to see a meeting of the minds. Gives us a broader perspective to consider. Thanks!
Hi everyone, whilst chrismas comes but once a year, two historians is happening once per week to bring discussion and understanding to our past and possible future
Greetings from Australia, Dr Clark our television lineup for Xmas day that we watched included Thunderbirds Are Go from 1966 and Wallace and Gromit A Grand Day Out and A Matter of Loaf and Death. Great to see you with Sal I hope you get the opportunity to do more lives and videos together and maybe have Drach on at the same time as well for a Holy Trinity of naval youtubers.
we used to include Jamie Siedel of Armoured Carriers quite often for the Four Horseman of Navalopolis on Bilgepumps... so who knows, but honestly it's hard enough co-ordinating two calendars... to get four, is just...
55:50 Not just that but look at how many people serve in the navy vs the army during those conflicts. When those veterans survive and return home, most of the stories are going to be about soldiers and their experience. Furthermore, most people have walked through a field or dug a hole (in a sand pit as a child at the very least) but you can’t say the same about sailing a yacht or operating a motorboat. With the demise of national merchant marines, the naval and maritime domain is as unfamiliar to the general public as the military is removed from civilian experience today.
When it comes to logistics and shipping, geography really is destiny.
There's a venn diagram of anime,maritime warfare and autism (which I am right in the middle)
The discussion on how logistics is neglected or unconsciously left in the background rather than forefront of military officers reminded me of this scene from one of the classics "Legend of Galactic Heroes" in which in a flashback to one of the main lead's military academy days in which he Yang Wen Li was average in every subject saved military history was asked to compete in a wargaming simulation against a rival who was considered a tactical genius at maneuver (had like 100 to 0 winrate) by peers and teachers . He won by attacking the supply ship something in which none of these cadets in a practical but simulated environment would think of. Sort of like James T. Kirk "cheating" at the Kobayashi Maru.
Love the chat gentlemen, especially with how politicians want to snag big ticket flashy items or associate with the frontline without actually thinking about the bigger picture of sustainment.
Merry christmas to both of you
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to try to make sense of it all, gentlemen!
You two, along with Drach, Perun (subscribed to you all!) and one or two of my exMatelot and, especially, Merchant Navy mates do illustrate the realities of how tricky and fragile the sustaining of international trade is.
(And has been since the Bronze Age, as far as I can tell!)
Nadolig Llawen I Chi!😊
Merry Christmas 🎁🎄
Great conversation 👌
I hope it'll be regular streams
I'm so happy the two of have been bringing home the issue of shipping, both commercial and military. Like everything else the US has been happy to turn over all aspects of shipping to foreign countries. All we need to do is create a demand for domestic sailors, officers, and ships and the market will respond. President Trump has the right idea, tariff every foreign ship flagged that ports here, ease bureaucratic regulations on domestic licensing and construction and ,if necessary, provide incentives. What a great career to serve on or command a merchant vessel
You, are clueless about economics then, because it does not work that way.
So you slap tariffs from say China. What do companies using that steel in the US do? They look for the next cheapest source of steel is what they do. News flash. Thats not in the US. Now if the US puts tariffs on all non US steel, there comes the second problem. Even if the US steel industry was as efficient as their foreign competitors (which it s not), they cannot charge the same prices because their labour costs are FAR higher than in say China, or Malaysia. So if US companies are forced to buy US steel, those costs get passed to the customer in the form of increased prices.
Then to make it worse productivity drops because the US steel industry simply cannot manufacture enough steel. They do not have the plant, facilities, infrastructure or trained workforce. So now you have to build those things, which takes time, as in years, and during that period steel gets more and more expensive because now you have a steel shortage.
And now you have a bunch of expensive goods that no one outside of the US will buy because they can get the same thing for a much lower price, and the US export market nose dives because no one will pay what they are demanding. And try as you might you cannot force people from other countries to buy your product. If there is no demand there is no demand.
Add to that your statement that: All we need to do is create a demand for domestic sailors, officers, and ships and the market will respond, is one born of both breathtaking arrogance, and a complete ignorance of what you are trying to achieve.
The massive juggernaut that is modern Chinese Shipbuilding did not simply happen because the 'market responded', it happened because of a deliberate and very long term strategy of intensive government funding in infrastructure and workforce training that literally took half a CENTURY to achieve.
You are not pulling that kind of thing off in a year or two no matter what some stupid orange blowhard might rant and rave about... Heavy industry moved from the US because it is cheaper to mass manufacture goods in places with low labour costs and then ship them to where they are to be sold than it is to manufacture the same goods in high labour cost regions. Its that simple and you are NOT going to change it. One day China will be facing the same problem. Mass manufacture will start moving to places like some African nations as wages thus labour costs slowly increase in China.
Labour costs matter, and to really push the point home I do not see Trump moving his textile factories from Mexico to the US... Why is that? Labour costs....
The cross over event of the year
You know it's become a great game of battleship on the world stage. 😮
Sal barely kept it together with the analogy about the spear.
😂
I’m surprised a comment about girth and “how you use it” didn’t come into play.
I almost went off the rails a few minutes into this talk. We would have never come back from it.
This was great!!
Will we ever be able to access the old Bilge Pump podcast?
Hopefully should be on drachs channel after Christmas
I think a large part of why the USA was willing to pay the pirates back then and not now is because of the we don't negotiate with terrorists and dont show weakness mentality. A lot of us policies revolve around power projection so if they can do that effectively it kinda falls apart.
1) That intro animation was weird.
2) "Pesky Ukrainians" is a quote I am stealing
3) "Super Burkes" You aren't wrong Dr. C
We should have kept the Sacramentos.
Another thing politicians love, at least British Politicians, is 'Force Multipliers'.
Now I am all for Force multipliers, anything that, for example, helps the Infantry do its job better, more efficiently, and with fewer casualties is worth investing in in my book.
But those force multipliers are only any use if the FORCE part is there. Take away the infantry and all the force multipliers in the Army are worth precisely nothing as there is no Force to multiply, and multiplying a million by zero is still zero....
And thats the part British politicians cannot seem to get their heads around. And its a problem at the moment, because not only is infantry recruitment a serious problem in the British Army at the moment because of silly little things like crap pay, but infantry retention is also at the lowest point I can remember, again because of silly little things like crap pay....
Given the parlous state of the infantry at the moment, and the utter lack of depth in the reserves, the recent report that the British Army would be expended in a war like that in Ukraine in six to twelve months is somewhat... optimistic...
And the problem, is political.
Merry Christmas!