Sonic 3 - Sonic & Knuckles Zone Leftovers (All Data, no Crashes) [Part 1]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- This is it! Big thanks to the Sonic 3 Unlocked blog that made this possible.
Why it crashes:
s3unlocked.blo...
Codes:
NKCA-LABC - Mushroom Valley zone
NKCA-LABE - Sandopolis zone
NKCA-LABG - Lava Reef zone
NKCA-LABJ - Sky Sanctuary zone
NKCA-LABL - Death Egg zone
NKCA-LABN - Doomsday zone
NKCA-LABR - ID 0D
Make sure you use the codes here first: tcrf.net/Sonic...
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2:58 something to note is that unlike in Sonic & Knuckles, Robotnik panics wherever he fires the laser beam. This makes sense considering he is causing damage to his own flying fortress. This is only present is Sonic 3 (not sure about S3C) not the final version of Sonic & Knuckles.
@Katherine Johnson maybe but untill that actually is confirmed maybe at least for now that is the theory might be that they used the slightly altered but uncut version of sonic 3 and knuckles for that particular boss fight
In the prototype he panics after every fire of the beam in the final version he doesn’t he only panics on the final beam launched before running
I wonder what would happen if you transfer the tileset from S&K
I was wondering the same. Like could one see some bits of actual level design?
do this
He did that but it really didn’t match the layout in sonic 3c 0408 but the graphics transferred from there make it look the same
@@Liam3072the level layouts on all Sonic and knuckles zones have been removed from the game most of the Sonic and knuckles zones hadn't really been implemented yet and only these empty level slots exist the only zones that could have technically been in the game implemented is MVZ FBZ LRZ And SZ I think sandopolis was implemented due to it still being on the level select but during the beta phase sandopolis was in a very incomplete state possibly in an even more and complete State than flying battery
I did the cartridge tilt trick on Sonic 3 way back in the day and I ended up with a save file for FBZ. It had a picture representing the level with Zone 5 under it. I thought it was strange, because I always assumed Zone 5 was supposed to be Ice Cap. I selected it and the zone screen for FBZ, to include the theme, began playing. But, the screen froze at the zone title screen and I couldn’t do anything but reset
That's pretty cool. I'm surprised a cartridge tilt could corrupt the save memory. I'm sure you must've been puzzled to see Flying Battery as Zone 5 back then.
@@SilverSonic1992 I always knew Flying Battery followed Mushroom Hill because I played Sonic & Knuckles first. I never knew, until decades later, that FBZ was intended to follow Carnival Night
You can notice the echo in Flying Battery gets out of sync with every loop.
This is the most notable differences in Sonic 3's S&K music compared to S&K.
It’s even more notable when there is a pre release.
Because the echo goes late
@@SilverSonic1992 very interesting indeed wonder why that happens each time the music for flying battery zone loops
@@ritaandrunt5767 There's a weird low note that gets played that delays the melody. It was removed in Sonic & Knuckles.
Another thing...The zone data is probably in the s&k cartridge that's why if we try sonic 3 levels in that game it is broken.
When you lock the games together you probably fuse the zone data into one game
*Wow Technology!*
Nah all of it is in s&k.
The sonic 3 prototype also explains how flying battery is still partly playable in sonic 3 when loading it via game genie code.
Keep in mind, none of the S&K zone data leftover in S3 is used in the combined game or S&K. Everything you see here is leftover from earlier development. Mushroom Valley has an object layout that is completely different from the final, Flying Battery's boss locations are still based on the old layout, Lava Reef's animation code is still using the old design from the prototype. All of these are remnants of prototype versions of each zone. Remember S&K was finalized 8 months later. A lot changes were made in that amount of time.
Silver Sonic 1992 if we can get a early
S&K we could see restored versions of the old S&K zones like Mushroom valley. The only known prototypes of S&K that there is, are prototypes of a unfinished game collection of sonic 3 called Sonic 3 complete which the pro types mostly only have the final bosses incomplete and only have their graphics in the game.
We could find a pre 1103 build or a sonic 3c build in between 1103 on 3c 0408 possibly containing that strange mushroom valley object layout and extremely early somewhat playable versions of many other S&K zones
I find it cool that Mushroom Valley Zone has more substance than Flying Battery in many ways. Like you can see the structure of MVZ still there. There are tons of 1UP monitors, springs, and even elemental shield placed all over the stage. I came across a lightning shield box in act 1 which I find quite cool (it's at location 0701068C 0667062C). There is a lot left over of MVZ. yeah FBZ has all it's bosses and enemies. But I feel the frame and layout of MVZ is more apparent. That the stage itself is more alive.
I would agree. MVZ also has collision plane swappers (They appear as a ling of stationary rings; used to change collision so Sonic can go around a loop or go on an alternate path) which means that it would have even had an early level layout completed. There might even be a boss or badnik for MVZ hidden in the game somewhere.
@@TheHidingHider No, it does not, unfortunately.
@@TheHidingHider I saw the video. Apparently the level was a bit higher.
@@SilverSonic1992 you can select Mad Mole but you cannot spawn it
I made a potential level layout for mushroom valley
Me: Hits my elbow
My whole nervous system: 7:02
6:43 ZONE: SONIC 3
You know this absolutely fascinates me I completely forgot about these videos until I looked them up yesterday was watching them while playing sonic 2 on my sega genesis I'm stunned by how awesome these video's are keep up the good work on these video's for they are a treat to watch
Thank you, means a lot!
@@SilverSonic1992 you're welcome stuff like this always manages to fascinate me
6:43
...and my personal favorite: *Zone.*
There is no zone that is any better than *z o n e* .
0:23 Those rings are actually here in Oct.1993 Proto.
never heard of the october proto. :/
@@bloxxeralex1574 I meant Nov 3 proto, and Nov 3 proto is from october acc to rom header
Ah yes... Flying Battery Zone with its messed up echo... Though the first loop don't sound that bad for being misplaced!
7:02 Me trying to remember the internet password results
0:10 Flying Battery Zone Act 1
2:23 Flying Battery Zone Act 2 (featuring Barrier Eggman)
5:26 Mushroom Valley/Hill Zone Act 1
6:43 Mushroom Valley/Hill Zone Act 2
8:20 Sandopolis Zone Act 1
10:11 Sandopolis Zone Act 2
11:18 Lava Reef Zone Act 1
12:50 Lava Reef Zone Act 2
14:15 Lava Reef Zone Act 2 Boss
15:16 Hidden Palace Zone
Something to note but probably no one cares about but still the zone transition from launch base to mushroom valley went from sonic and tails falling down into the zone which would lead them to a lot with a one up and they would hide behind that from knuckles and something else the transition from MVZ to SOZ was probably the knuckles seen from the start of act 2 I think this because the object layout ( leftover in s3 and the 1103 proto) has no layout at the top of the stage which means sonic and tails continued on with the stage and knuckles flicked a switch like at the start of act 2 and sent them to SOZ even tho this has nothing to do with the video this was just speculation
Just a correction I accidently put “a lot at the beginning instead of pit that was just a typo sorry
FBZ sounds slightly different....
Could be recording quality, although Flying Battery's "echo track" is slightly too late and falls behind the rest of the music.
@@SilverSonic1992 I can hear something going 'Twang'... Bandicam recordings are clearer than most of the other recorders. Thank you for the reply!
Idk btw this is on the fushin emulater
@@SilverSonic1992 yeah I was going to say it did sound different then what's herd in the final version of the game
Wasint even awere that it had an echo track
Flying Battery and Mushroom Valley use Hill Top and Metropolis Zone's Icons respectively (most likely a leftover from Sonic 2)
One of the 2P VS selections even uses Hidden Palace's icon!
@@SilverSonic1992 The Unused icon from Sonic 2
@@RyanNeoHedgehogOfficial Yes, though I always wondered why that icon exists if Hidden Palace zone was scrapped before the final level select screen was implemented.
@Katherine sonjon I think the reason they got rid of the Sonic 2 icons was because there was no more room on the level select!
@Katherine sonjon They didn't use Sonic 3 icons for the level select because the level select was never finished.
1:32 Gapsule confirmed in Sonic The Hedgehog 3! (NOT Sonic 3 & Knuckles)
How long does it take until FBZ act 1's echo lines up again? Because I'd really like to know what it sounds like at some points, like when the loop is right between two alignments. Must be incredibly messed up, but also amusing to listen to.
0:11 Flying battery is looking more like Ice Battery am i right?
also i used to think that flying battery was in sonic 3 alone intel i saw this vid
Lava Reef Zone does have rings interestingly enough. It isn't much but it can give us an idea that there was at least some work done on Lava Reef before the plug was pulled (plus the palette and starting position being intact). I'm rooting for the underdogs. I think Flying Battery is the most complete but I'm more interested in Mushroom Valley and Lava Reef (I really don't think Sandopolis has anything interesting going on besides the starting point). Does the garbage tiling have ANY hint to the old level layouts? Because in these landfills of data, it almost seems like you can make out some stuff in the stage that could've been something visually in the zone. I also find it interesting how there's no sprite for the diagonal springs in Mushroom Valley Zone's debug selection (I am also having a hard time finding any in the zone that are there by default). Are the diagonal springs not in any of the Sonic 3 stages? I'm not just intrigued by that (considering I think it's a unique zone gimmick) but also the moving springs (diagonal or straight which again I can't find in the level layout of Mushroom Valley). Apparently they were supposed to be used for Flying Battery Zone but then that brings up the question of why are they in Mushroom Valley's debug select and not Flying Battery's? Also how come I can't find these unique zone assets in the leftover zone layout? (I can find normal springs, rings, and even unique monitors including an area where there are two montiors right next to each other but not any spikes oddly enough either). Mushroom Valley's level design is very peculiar and I think we should look more into it to see if there's any thing else we can pull out of it. (also Lava Reef might contain another thing or two if we look hard enough but I'd check Mushroom Valley first)
Start points, although simple coordinates can give us some useful information. Sandopolis’s start point is rather interesting. It starts off quite a bit to the right from some reason. The coordinates are 0230-01AC but in Sonic & Knuckles it’s 00C0-0400. Lava Reef’s start location is 0100-0020 which is someplace high near the top of the level. The coordinates are actually identical to S&K! Some garbage tiling seems to be significant. For example, the Glowing Orbs bonus stage has garbage tiles, but has its original layout intact. I’m sure you’ve seen the recurring pillar and stair-like structures throughout the Sonic & Knuckles stages. In the case of Mushroom Valley, fixing the 16x16 compression errors reveals a nonsensical layout of Azure Lake chunks. This isn’t surprising because they aren’t even the correct chunks anyway. I think SOZ, SSZ, DEZ, and TDZ all just use garbage layouts consisting of some valid data from Angel Island (The same pillar structures appear at the bottom of Angel Island act 1).
Sprite data for Mushroom Valley’s diagonal springs does exist; it’s just that it get corrupted by the compression bug at the start of the level. Diagonal springs do appear in other parts of Sonic 3. I can recall at least one yellow one in Marble Garden zone, but they do seem to be extremely rare. I don’t think moving springs or moving diagonal springs are used a single time in the Sonic 3 zones. Flying Battery’s moving spring is a separate object from the one found in the Mushroom Valley debug object list.
Remember, just because it's not in the level doesn't mean it isn't there. There could be (and there has been) unused code or objects isolated from the rest of the level. Some examples are the FBZ sub-boss which never appears in the zone itself, Knuckles's MGZ act 2 boss, the yellow spheres used in the S&K special stages, and countless other unused objects, and even deleted objects.
@@SilverSonic1992 I also heard there is an unused enemy in Mushroom Valley that instantly disappear when it appears on screen with an Object ID of 93. Do we know anything about it? Could there be more to it than we know of thus far? Also yes I do notice the weird pillar platforms in MVZ, SOZ, and LRZ (they're very fun to go across as Super Sonic).
@@wildcard13294 Object 93 is an object that was deleted. It doesn't point t anything anymore unfortunately, though it probably did. The Japanese manual for Sonic 3 talks about Robotnik's season machine in Mushroom Hill act 2, which could mean it was implemented into the game.
@@SilverSonic1992 interesting. were any other S&K badniks and bosses mentioned in the JP S3A manual?
DantheLazy Munchlax782Gaming i know the english(i dont know if uk only or also usa)manual lists the flying battery badniks
16:27 is it a leftover of the theft of the Master Emerald?
I'm not sure.
Silver Sonic 1992 how does the event happen in SnK/S3K?The theft of the Master Emerald?
@@waddledee8108 What do you what to know?
Silver Sonic 1992 i want to know how does the hidden palace event happen in sonic & knuckles.do you know how this happens?
@@waddledee8108 Not completely, but the Robotnik object attaches itself to the Master Emerald. Sometimes a rare glitch can be caused and Robotnik will steal a Super Emerald instead! The Knuckles object goes after him and it is more or less a cut scene with different objects doing different things.
Who must give me code to one-hit destroy bosses in Sonic 3 Alone?
ok i put in the codes for the game. but when i ttry to enter the stage it doesnt let me
2:15 So, did the signpost land on something, or does the game have a fallback for if the signpost falls off the stage?
It landed on some broken collision. If it can't find any ground, it will loop around the screen vertically.
Flying battery probably dosent crash because it was originally in sonic 3 but was moved to s&k there is most likely some
Data left behind that makes it not crash
It still can crash he's just being careful
But all stages were originally in sonic 3 but moved over.
What he means is it was supposed to be in the Sonic 3 portion of the game.
Wow I love how these look had no idea how many of these were leftover nonetheless considering that these leftovers all from sonic and knuckles it surprises me how you were able to get the level leftovers from sonic and knuckles to be properly displayed in sonic 3 might I ask how this was done ?
Is there a way to force Sonic And Knuckles (Alone) to access Sonic 3 stages, in the same way you can force Sonic 3 (Alone) to access Sonic And Knuckles stages? I know that Sonic & Knuckles was made after the decision to split sonic 3, so obviously nothing interesting like leftovers would exist in the game, but it would still be interesting to see random glitch levels of the Sonic 3 levels in S&K.
Since the levels will try to load graphics data from the Sonic 3 half of the game, there really wouldn't be an easy way without fixing the levels entirely.
why levels crash on load:
the level's values go beyond death egg zone, the only zone without animals (the ones you rescue after a boss), when the game loads a level/zone value beyond death egg zone, it loads a random animal, wich does not exist, resulting in a beautiful crash
Ur smart
The game genie codes remove these animals
I know this is completely unrelated,
But there are many ways to say "zone" when it comes to sonic.
Some call them stages, others call them levels, but I heavily prefer zones because "stages" sounds a bit unusual, and "levels" just reminds me of Mario.
Well, "Zones" would be the official way to refer to them.
@@SilverSonic1992 makes sense
How completable are the zones
Mushroom Hill (They’ve worked on the zone before but goes unused they had objects and enemies. Palette exists in the prototype)
Flying Battery (In the final is completely broken but they had art in prototype. They still had bosses)
Sandopolis (Music exists. The Act 1 boss is in the prototype data)
Lava Reef (The art exists in the prototype but got deleted. Seems that they worked on the zone before)
Sky Sanctuary, Death Egg, and Doomsday Zone (Never worked on it in the rom but the music and zone ID exists)
It's emulator gens?
No,it's Kega Fusion as I remember
Mushroom Valley : Act 1 = ABZA-ARFL - Act 2 = AFZA-ARFN - Crash Fix : NKCA-LABC
Flying Battery : Act 1 = ABZA-AJE8 - Act 2 = AFZA-AJFA - Fix Crash = None : See below.
Flojera, perensen
This is my full explanation to fb (atleast my explanation)
1.the zone is between carnival night, ice cap and since the zone was removed (some assets weren't removed like the boss) u can't access it due to it being after the desicion to split the game
2. Since this is a s&k zone it was probably removed
3. my best guess is after the desicion to split the game it was probably removed
Does this version of Sandopolis Act 2 Loop vertically?
No.
No.
You didn't have to do flying duracell zone
The vertical Technosqueak has a mapping error in the prototype also. I placed one (I used BlastEm) and the proto crashed. I still don't understand why the vertical Technosqueak has a mapping error in the first place.
I think it's a programming oversight, but it's been a while.
Ok so from the why it crashes link you posted, the entire reason it crashes is simply because of the way the animals act on each level and the way they are coded? Im not an expert but that is kinda hilarious that stupid animals we are trying to rescue are why it crashes lol.
game genie codes
Read the video description.
I've always been curious about two things regarding the Mushroom Hill/Valley object layout:
1. Is the layout in the final Sonic 3 the same as the one found in the 1193 prototype?
2. Does either layout match up with the final stage layout?
1. Yes.
2. It's entirely different compared to the final version.
Question, is there a game genie code to load minibosses in sonic 3?
So what code combo do i use for mushroom valley zone? I am using the EU rom
Act 1 = ABZA-ARFL
Act 2 = AFZA-ARFN
Crash fix = NKCA-LABC
Question: have any tips on starting restoring sonic & knucjles zones back to sonic 3
I wonder if the prototype falling start location of Lava Reef implies jumping into an volcano from somewhere.
Did you see Lava Reef Zone in the prototype?
0:39 this is not flying battery
Sonic 3 was going to have the Sonic & Knuckles levels but they got scrapped in the final version due to running out of time.
As they got scrapped, they now have a glitchy appearance as most of their original data was erased. But you can still find the Flying Battery bosses and ring locations, Mushroom Valley's object layout and Lava Reef's lava color pallete cycle.
iv seen the ring only counter thing when swapping the bluesphere selection with angel island using game genie, side effect of loading it on a bonus?
5:25 For some reason Mushroom Valley/Hill's preview looks like Metropolis.
because it is
Flying battery zone has icecaps palette
ID 0D Zone?
Zone ID $0D in hexadecimal. Each zone has a value that corresponds with it.
$00 = Angel Island
$01 = Hydrocity
$02 = Marble Garden
$03 = Carnival Night
$04 = Flying Battery
$05 = Ice Cap
$06 = Launch Base
$07 = Mushroom Valley
$08 = Sandopolis
$09 = Lava Reef
$0A = Sky Sanctuary
$0B = Death Egg
$0C = Doomsday
$0D = ????
$0E = Azure Lake
$0F = Ballon Park
$10 = Desert Palace
$11 = Chrome Gadget
$12 = Endless Mine
$13 = Gumball Bonus
$14 = Glowing Spheres Bonus
$15 = Slot Machine Bonus
$16 - Act 1 = Lava Reef boss. Act 2 = Hidden Palace
$17 - Act 1 = Death Egg boss. Act 2 = other Hidden Palace
Everything thing after that are glitch levels.
Can you imagine the surprise that the children of that time would have had if they managed to access those levels?
That would've been insane!
@@SilverSonic1992 same I could imagine that if I were a kid back in the early 1990s playing sonic like I am now and discovering levels like that probably would have blown my mind but regardless that's how I would imagine thier recation to that would be but thats my take on it
Okay, now do the opposite:
Sonic & Knuckles - Sonic 3 Zone leftovers, try to see what you find. (If possible.)
Most of everything that is leftover in Sonic & Knuckles is actually used in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ah. I see.
Silver Sonic 1992
ice cap act 0
Flying Battery Act 1.
@@SilverSonic1992 yes
That is called garbage data
weird
Is this a prototype or what?
This is the final version of Sonic 3.
the tile set can be only lava reef maybe
Azure lake
Flying Battery and Hidden Palace(S2)are the same thing.mushroom valley can compete with hidden palace,too.lava reef is more like wood.every other is the s2 empty slots
Well these zones do have their music and some title card data.
That's because Mushroom Valley and Lava Reef even were while somewhat complete, still probably not entirely finalized yet. Flying Battery however was removed LONG after all the other zones. It was probably removed absolutely last second. MANY details support this idea. Flying Battery had been 100% finished by the time Sonic 3 released. I still find it interesting how the devs left behind a spring and monitor layout for Mushroom Valley and Lava Reef Act 1's palette in the data. I really surprises me anything past Launch Base is intact at all and not just empty. Flying Battery of course being pre Launch Base of course is excluded from this. I feel like Mushroom Valley and Lava Reef hold something of importance in the near future for Sonic 3's backstory. It's strange that they have Azure Lake's tileset while everything else uncompleted post Launch Base has Angel Island's tileset. It tells me that these two zones have more than meets the eye. I don't think we've quite reached the end of what Sonic 3 has to offer in terms of clues left behind in the data. I hardly believe Mushroom Valley and Lava Reef have near the content as Flying Battery finished by that point but I do feel we can squeeze out a few more hidden treasures. Mushroom Valley has a spring and monitor layout yes? I'm sure that leads to something greater. Lava Reef has a palette for Act 1. That might be a dead end but who knows? What I'm saying is. If we had a disassembly for Sonic 3 and had all possible hands on deck, I feel we could find at least one more major S&K leftover before Spring 2019. I'll keep looking into Mushroom Valley and Lava Reef as much as possible. (but primarily Mushroom Valley since it has more than Lava Reef). I encourage everyone else to try to dig into these zones for once and not just Flying Battery. If we can have something discovered by Sonic 3's 25th anniversary even (which is February 2,) I think that'd be a great celebration.
@@wildcard13294 We have to get on this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't there be more unused objects in the rom near the offsets of the Death Egg hologram projector? It would be worth a shot to check.
So the zones crash because of Picky?
And Flicky, Pocky, Ricky and, yeah more or less...
Silver Sonic 1992 I hate that evil pests(no i dont)
ID Levels Please
What do you mean?
@@SilverSonic1992 ID 0 level... I have no other idea :/
It's not Chemical Plant. Chemical Plant is long since removed.
1. The sonic 2 sprites were placeholders.
2. The icon is still there because the level select is based on Sonic 2
3. There is no data for CPZ left in the game.
@Katherine Johnson you mean $0D? the RAM corrupter?
No Crashes Code Please
Check the description.
Can you please investigate about the cut Zone in Sonic Chaos?I didn't find anything on TH-cam...
I'm surprised you knew about this, I can make a video sometime soon.
Silver Sonic 1992 i snooped around in tcrf and i had fun with the level modifier so i know another "glitch level":id 0d.
@@waddledee8108 Oh, I was the one who added that! A glitch level in Sonic Chaos?
Silver Sonic 1992 i dont know if it is really a glitch level.it is the only slot after id 0c(the 5th special stage)that loads so id 0d could also be a scrapped special stage that lost its layouts and became another turqoise hill.heres the internal oreder for sonic chaos:
00=turqoise hill
01=giga(lo)polis
02=sleeping egg
03=mecha green hill
04=aqua planet
05=electric egg
06=*turqoise hill(unused slot)*
07=intro
08-0C=Special Stages,in order(08 is the first,0C is the last)
0D=*turqoise hill(unused slot)*
0E+=(game crash)
Sorry for grammar errors
Arm glich
What?
The lava reef boss, hidden palace, death egg boss and shrine where previously working aswell
Oh that's right. I think that's because every zone after 13 (Gumball) is set to not load any animals because bonus stages don't need to load any animals. This is also probably why these zones are missing "Time" and "Score" and just have "Rings"
Code for spawning bosses
There is no code he found the boss
@@Hawkster20 where??
@@Breadmann.Co_DC2 in the stage
You sure?
@@Breadmann.Co_DC2 yes
why did you die at 5:15?
I died because I hit a bottomless pit.
well more because the screen couldn't keep up with you, as the game kills you if you go under the screen boundary, and bottomless pits work in classic Sonic games by preventing the screen from scrolling down below a certain part
He tried to mimic the Flying Battery to Sandopolis transition
Does death egg zone have an object layout?
Act 2 only has a collision change object.
So is it that unused object found in sonic 3 and the 3c prototypes?
@@Unkown-il9oz What object is that?
It’s that death egg hologram thing
If you want to see it check tetrabit gaming video on sonic 3 and sonic and knuckles lost bits
Lava reef 3 and Hidden palace look like another Sandopolis
They are both similar.
"s3.asm(120159) ORG(4): error: too much stuff before org $200000"
Accurate.