"Tell us why we're wrong and it's the best class." I wouldn't say it's the BEST but I will say that having a higher level proficiency with everything than the rest of the party is a HELL of a bonus. With crits that happen when you exceed the AC of your foe by 10, the Fighter crits a LOT in my experience.
From what I have learned playing a Fighter in Pathfinder 2E, if all you are doing is "running in and attacking" you ARE doing it wrong! I know, I know, "You shouldn't tell people their fun is wrong!" Well, I'm not a nice person(lol) so here I am doing it(it's also not "fun"). The fighter can have a LOT of abilities that set up better attacks for themselves and their teammates(Tripping someone counts as an attack so you would have a Multiple Attack Penalty moving forward, and also be able to use Press actions). If you are going "Sword and Board" then you want to remember to Raise Your Shield so you get the AC bonus(it's not as "terrible" as it sounds). There's a LOT to do as a Fighter, and unlike 5E you actually get rewarded for doing them. Roll two dice and take the highest is only cool the first couple of times you do it, after that it doesn't feel so cool!
Very true. Also, the fighter really has reliable damage. His bonus to hit is just flat better than anyone else has, and the way that stacks up with crits on a +10 really adds up. Fighters are just plain good in PF2.
Aside from the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic losing its “oh wow, that feels cool” factor sooner than later, I think 5e goofed by making it the core mechanic around which combat revolves. People build these very cool, very powerful builds in 5e, typically giving themselves and/or others Advantage, etc. In a vacuum, or the White Room, that’s fine. But back when I was running 5e campaigns, way too often these players with these powerful builds would rarely be able to play to their full effect. When others are built to provide Advantage/Disadvantage on a party-wide scale, and the effect doesn’t stack, then it doesn’t really matter what your character build is much of the time. I just love combat in PF2e, because EVERY action you take actually matters both thematically and mechanically.
While the Fighter has no "official" subclasses, its level 1 feats certainly guide it to certain builds. Double Slice promotes two-weapon fighting, Reactive Shield wants to use sword and board, Snagging Strike one-handed weapons, and Point-Blank Shot wants bow & arrows, and so on. But the big thing is that they're not as "locked in" as other subclasses. They can pick up some other feats if they want, while a Rogue will forever have one main approach to combat, for instance.
Eh somewhat. Its more limited though you can try a head-stomping ruffian or something for a change of pace. Would say thief rogue is most pigeonholed if anything.
I’m running a game right now for 6 players, only one of whom is playing a fighter. Our game is structured so that players can drop in and out session to session, and we’re running a dungeon crawl, pretty heavy on the combat. Throughout the entire campaign, fights without the fighter character present have been noticeably more harrowing than those when he’s there. Between his high AC, Attack of Opportunity, and higher than average weapon proficiency leading to more frequent criticals, he’s just such a solid, capable combatant that can carry the party to victory. The fighter in PF2 is awesome, because it does what the name says. If you play a Fighter, you’re the best in a fight.
Don't sleep on the fact that fighters are one proficiency tier above every other martial! That paired with level one AoO makes them feel like "the best class at fighting"
As someone who has only read the writeups for the various classes, something that stood out to me about PF2e vs 5e Fighters is that I feel that 2e Fighters sell the FANTASY of the class better. I think 2e gets across the fact that you're not just someone who can fight well. Even from level 1, you're an exceptional master of war, pretty much, and that mastery will only continue to grow. I think that alone helps the class a lot.
I think there's some big things missing here when analyzing the fighter: First, the increases weapon proficiency is extremely important when talking about the fighter. Fighter's start at Expert Proficiency in weapons, and are the only class (excluding Gunslinger) to reach Legendary Proficiency. It means the fighter effectively gets a +2 to all attacks, and also means a 10% increased chance to crit thanks to the way the crit system works in PF2e. When you start factoring critical specializations at level 5, you get a ton of versatility in your fighter's build: You can play a hammer or flail fighter who knocks people down with crits, Opportunity Attacks them when they stand up, and if that attack crits, you knock them right back down; You can go with knives and make your targets bleed for extra damage; You can use Polearms and move your target around the battlefield; Or go with picks and just do a metric ton of damage on a crit Second, it's not an Anathema or subclass, but the fighter has to pick a specific weapon group to focus in at level 5. Any weapon not in the group falls behind in proficiency, becoming only equal to other martial classes. This becomes a driving force in how your character plays and helps define your character's fighting style. You're not going to pick archery talents, but then decide to specialize in Swords, for example. The fighter is still a relatively straightforward class, but there is a lot of depth that lets you really play how you want. I don't think it's just "better than 5e's version"; It blows 5e out of the water
With guns and gears fighter can use the, well, guns (also prosthetic limbs with hidden blades because why not). Also there is the fighter meme of having expert proficiency from lvl 1. That's +2 to hit unlike pretty much all other martials except gunslinger.
There seems to be two actions that y’all r mixing up and it has happened more than once. The raise a shield action takes one action is is the action required to gain the bonus from the shield in the first place. U have to be benefiting from a bonus from a shield and have the general feat to then spend a reaction to reduce the incoming dmg.
Thanks for the clarification. We have been playing it correctly in our games, but not explaining correctly/clearly here. We will make sure to rectify this in future vids.
I think I have said this on the channel before but when I am getting into a new TTRPG I will go through the introduction to see what the big differences are in it from others I have played and then I go to make characters. I always start with a Fighter/Warrior/Soldier(or whatever the basic combat class is called), then do a Rogue, a Cleric, and finally a Wizard. The Cleric and Wizard are usually interchangeable since both are pretty close to the same difficulty. Outside of that small change the order will usually introduce you to the game mechanics in increasing difficulty, starting with combat and a few skills with the Fighter, then move to a LOT more skills Rogue, and then on to spellcasting with Cleric and Wizard. I would suggest Cleric first because you don't have to worry about remembering which spells you actually know.
The fighter is definitely a showcase of the feat system in PF2; and the class’ innate higher proficiency means they are crit MACHINES in combat. Maybe moreso than any other class, the fighter works “straight out of the box” so to speak. As long as you have a maxed out physical stat (str or dex), almost any fighter build will be effective.
As others have mentioned the higher number of crits fighter gets from having the highest accuracy in the CRB, I will point out a less talked about aspect of the fighter; they have best weapon selection out of the box. No other class gets proficiency in advanced weapons, and even if others take a feat to get trained, only fighter gets higher proficiency.
I think you guys would like the Free Archetype rule, and others from the Game Masters Guide,. Now to toy around with a fighter in Pathbuilder2e speaking of have you seen Archives of Nethys?
The Fighter gets the same amount of class feats as every other martial. The roleplay comes from the fighting style picked as well as the weapon type specialized in.
Fighter is kind of the blank slate of martial classes. Gives you good all around bases and class features then you build from there. Starts out kinda bland as a result but gets more interesting as you level. Fighters generally prefer higher dice weapons. Something like barb or rogue is better with lower dice because they get their dmg from other sources.
While I agree the fighter is basic as its "mechanic" is just being good with Weapons, weapons aren't just statblocks of reach and damage. At level 5, you gain access to Critical Specialization Effects in any weapon you're master proficiency with (1 group of weapons for now, then pretty much all martials at 13). These effects trigger whenever you crit on a strike and believe me, in my time playing a fighter I either missed or Critted, so it comes up a lot. Maybe you're a 2 handed weapon fighter who power attacks a whole lot! Then why not get a great pick as you'll get a +2 to damage for every dice you roll. Maybe you're a 2 weapon fighter with double slice, then you got a better chance of the knife's 1d6 precision bleed damage triggering. A fighter with a bow is super helpful too when it crits and forces to the enemy to use one of its actions to free itself cause the arrow made it stuck to the floor or a wall. Heck, I got this hilarious story where as a level 20 fighter, I used knock down with my hammer to make the enemy prone. Then, on its turn, it got up and I got to use my attack of opportunity and critted! Knocking it down again! It got up again and attacked, but that's all it could do as I had essentially gave it slowed 2! Yes, the fighter is simple, but it still has some depth if you look. Edit: I paused after y'all talked about Barbarian Rage and Champion AC, I thought you were talking mechanically rather than roleplay.
The skills that use a battle are very important the fighting and I don't feel like you guys are looking at that at all for the awesomeness of fighters like the trip like the push all that stuff
Hey Charles, this wasn’t really a deep dive for the fighter class, so we specifically avoided actions/skills that all classes could do (Even if fighters could do those things better) Our focus for these videos was a first impression of class design, and while we didn’t love the fighter, we didn’t hate it either. We’re just huge flavor buffs and Dungeon Crawl Classics has ruined us lol! You are very right about those actions for fighters in Pathfinder, but the same can be said for those actions in 5e, Pathfinder wasn’t really bringing anything new to the table there. It’s the feats and extra skills you obtain that make the Pathfinder fighter shine. Just not brighter than the DCC fighter (in our opinion) thank you for the comment! Have a Lichin’ day!
"Tell us why we're wrong and it's the best class." I wouldn't say it's the BEST but I will say that having a higher level proficiency with everything than the rest of the party is a HELL of a bonus. With crits that happen when you exceed the AC of your foe by 10, the Fighter crits a LOT in my experience.
From what I have learned playing a Fighter in Pathfinder 2E, if all you are doing is "running in and attacking" you ARE doing it wrong! I know, I know, "You shouldn't tell people their fun is wrong!" Well, I'm not a nice person(lol) so here I am doing it(it's also not "fun").
The fighter can have a LOT of abilities that set up better attacks for themselves and their teammates(Tripping someone counts as an attack so you would have a Multiple Attack Penalty moving forward, and also be able to use Press actions). If you are going "Sword and Board" then you want to remember to Raise Your Shield so you get the AC bonus(it's not as "terrible" as it sounds).
There's a LOT to do as a Fighter, and unlike 5E you actually get rewarded for doing them. Roll two dice and take the highest is only cool the first couple of times you do it, after that it doesn't feel so cool!
Very true. Also, the fighter really has reliable damage. His bonus to hit is just flat better than anyone else has, and the way that stacks up with crits on a +10 really adds up. Fighters are just plain good in PF2.
Aside from the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic losing its “oh wow, that feels cool” factor sooner than later, I think 5e goofed by making it the core mechanic around which combat revolves. People build these very cool, very powerful builds in 5e, typically giving themselves and/or others Advantage, etc. In a vacuum, or the White Room, that’s fine. But back when I was running 5e campaigns, way too often these players with these powerful builds would rarely be able to play to their full effect. When others are built to provide Advantage/Disadvantage on a party-wide scale, and the effect doesn’t stack, then it doesn’t really matter what your character build is much of the time.
I just love combat in PF2e, because EVERY action you take actually matters both thematically and mechanically.
While the Fighter has no "official" subclasses, its level 1 feats certainly guide it to certain builds. Double Slice promotes two-weapon fighting, Reactive Shield wants to use sword and board, Snagging Strike one-handed weapons, and Point-Blank Shot wants bow & arrows, and so on. But the big thing is that they're not as "locked in" as other subclasses. They can pick up some other feats if they want, while a Rogue will forever have one main approach to combat, for instance.
Eh somewhat. Its more limited though you can try a head-stomping ruffian or something for a change of pace. Would say thief rogue is most pigeonholed if anything.
I'm learning right alongside of yall. Thanks for the rundown of all these classes.
I’m running a game right now for 6 players, only one of whom is playing a fighter. Our game is structured so that players can drop in and out session to session, and we’re running a dungeon crawl, pretty heavy on the combat. Throughout the entire campaign, fights without the fighter character present have been noticeably more harrowing than those when he’s there. Between his high AC, Attack of Opportunity, and higher than average weapon proficiency leading to more frequent criticals, he’s just such a solid, capable combatant that can carry the party to victory.
The fighter in PF2 is awesome, because it does what the name says. If you play a Fighter, you’re the best in a fight.
Don't sleep on the fact that fighters are one proficiency tier above every other martial!
That paired with level one AoO makes them feel like "the best class at fighting"
Love the fighter!
Can't wait to see you guys review the classes beyond the core book!
As someone who has only read the writeups for the various classes, something that stood out to me about PF2e vs 5e Fighters is that I feel that 2e Fighters sell the FANTASY of the class better. I think 2e gets across the fact that you're not just someone who can fight well. Even from level 1, you're an exceptional master of war, pretty much, and that mastery will only continue to grow. I think that alone helps the class a lot.
I think there's some big things missing here when analyzing the fighter:
First, the increases weapon proficiency is extremely important when talking about the fighter. Fighter's start at Expert Proficiency in weapons, and are the only class (excluding Gunslinger) to reach Legendary Proficiency. It means the fighter effectively gets a +2 to all attacks, and also means a 10% increased chance to crit thanks to the way the crit system works in PF2e.
When you start factoring critical specializations at level 5, you get a ton of versatility in your fighter's build: You can play a hammer or flail fighter who knocks people down with crits, Opportunity Attacks them when they stand up, and if that attack crits, you knock them right back down; You can go with knives and make your targets bleed for extra damage; You can use Polearms and move your target around the battlefield; Or go with picks and just do a metric ton of damage on a crit
Second, it's not an Anathema or subclass, but the fighter has to pick a specific weapon group to focus in at level 5. Any weapon not in the group falls behind in proficiency, becoming only equal to other martial classes. This becomes a driving force in how your character plays and helps define your character's fighting style. You're not going to pick archery talents, but then decide to specialize in Swords, for example.
The fighter is still a relatively straightforward class, but there is a lot of depth that lets you really play how you want. I don't think it's just "better than 5e's version"; It blows 5e out of the water
With guns and gears fighter can use the, well, guns (also prosthetic limbs with hidden blades because why not). Also there is the fighter meme of having expert proficiency from lvl 1. That's +2 to hit unlike pretty much all other martials except gunslinger.
There seems to be two actions that y’all r mixing up and it has happened more than once. The raise a shield action takes one action is is the action required to gain the bonus from the shield in the first place. U have to be benefiting from a bonus from a shield and have the general feat to then spend a reaction to reduce the incoming dmg.
Thanks for the clarification. We have been playing it correctly in our games, but not explaining correctly/clearly here. We will make sure to rectify this in future vids.
I think I have said this on the channel before but when I am getting into a new TTRPG I will go through the introduction to see what the big differences are in it from others I have played and then I go to make characters. I always start with a Fighter/Warrior/Soldier(or whatever the basic combat class is called), then do a Rogue, a Cleric, and finally a Wizard. The Cleric and Wizard are usually interchangeable since both are pretty close to the same difficulty.
Outside of that small change the order will usually introduce you to the game mechanics in increasing difficulty, starting with combat and a few skills with the Fighter, then move to a LOT more skills Rogue, and then on to spellcasting with Cleric and Wizard. I would suggest Cleric first because you don't have to worry about remembering which spells you actually know.
The fighter is definitely a showcase of the feat system in PF2; and the class’ innate higher proficiency means they are crit MACHINES in combat.
Maybe moreso than any other class, the fighter works “straight out of the box” so to speak. As long as you have a maxed out physical stat (str or dex), almost any fighter build will be effective.
As others have mentioned the higher number of crits fighter gets from having the highest accuracy in the CRB, I will point out a less talked about aspect of the fighter; they have best weapon selection out of the box. No other class gets proficiency in advanced weapons, and even if others take a feat to get trained, only fighter gets higher proficiency.
A player just joined a campaign that I GM, and dude, I can resume the fighter in 1 word: criticals. He's smashing my monsters lol
I think you guys would like the Free Archetype rule, and others from the Game Masters Guide,.
Now to toy around with a fighter in Pathbuilder2e speaking of have you seen Archives of Nethys?
The Fighter gets the same amount of class feats as every other martial.
The roleplay comes from the fighting style picked as well as the weapon type specialized in.
Fighter is kind of the blank slate of martial classes. Gives you good all around bases and class features then you build from there.
Starts out kinda bland as a result but gets more interesting as you level.
Fighters generally prefer higher dice weapons. Something like barb or rogue is better with lower dice because they get their dmg from other sources.
While I agree the fighter is basic as its "mechanic" is just being good with Weapons, weapons aren't just statblocks of reach and damage. At level 5, you gain access to Critical Specialization Effects in any weapon you're master proficiency with (1 group of weapons for now, then pretty much all martials at 13). These effects trigger whenever you crit on a strike and believe me, in my time playing a fighter I either missed or Critted, so it comes up a lot.
Maybe you're a 2 handed weapon fighter who power attacks a whole lot! Then why not get a great pick as you'll get a +2 to damage for every dice you roll. Maybe you're a 2 weapon fighter with double slice, then you got a better chance of the knife's 1d6 precision bleed damage triggering. A fighter with a bow is super helpful too when it crits and forces to the enemy to use one of its actions to free itself cause the arrow made it stuck to the floor or a wall.
Heck, I got this hilarious story where as a level 20 fighter, I used knock down with my hammer to make the enemy prone. Then, on its turn, it got up and I got to use my attack of opportunity and critted! Knocking it down again! It got up again and attacked, but that's all it could do as I had essentially gave it slowed 2!
Yes, the fighter is simple, but it still has some depth if you look.
Edit: I paused after y'all talked about Barbarian Rage and Champion AC, I thought you were talking mechanically rather than roleplay.
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The skills that use a battle are very important the fighting and I don't feel like you guys are looking at that at all for the awesomeness of fighters like the trip like the push all that stuff
Hey Charles, this wasn’t really a deep dive for the fighter class, so we specifically avoided actions/skills that all classes could do (Even if fighters could do those things better) Our focus for these videos was a first impression of class design, and while we didn’t love the fighter, we didn’t hate it either. We’re just huge flavor buffs and Dungeon Crawl Classics has ruined us lol! You are very right about those actions for fighters in Pathfinder, but the same can be said for those actions in 5e, Pathfinder wasn’t really bringing anything new to the table there. It’s the feats and extra skills you obtain that make the Pathfinder fighter shine. Just not brighter than the DCC fighter (in our opinion) thank you for the comment! Have a Lichin’ day!