One note about outwit hunter, all of the skills can be used in combat as well. Intimidation - demoralize, deception - feint or create a diversion, stealth - hiding to make something flat footed and the usual sneaking, recall knowledge - exactly what you'd assume and rangers get a feat tree to further benefit. Also the AC bonus never hurts, basically half a shield against your prey.
Yeap if you love rangers and this is your 3 ranger and you have experience with the rules Outwit is amazing, the thing is out of the both the others ones are more easily to gasp what are you doing with them. One big hit, 3 attacks all the rounds, etc.
Outwit is criminally underrated. +2 to Deception (Feint, Create a Distraction), Intimidation (Demoralize), and Stealth (Hide, Sneak) is great for in combat use. +2 to Recall Knowledge is great, especially when combined with the Monster Hunter feats, and the higher level feat that eventually lets you use Nature to Recall Knowledge on any creature. You can become an incredible support character, consistently placing debuffs on the enemy, and providing buffs to your party thanks to Legendary Nature, eventually getting +4 on Recall Knowledge checks, and Monster Hunter feats
Outwit rangers are more like detectives or bounty hunters. The Hunt Prey action can be used outside of combat and is not limited to a monster or animal. Add in the Monster Hunter feats, and you have a support tank that can grant AC bonuses while being able to know weaknesses and be in melee
Appreciate your thoughts as always! It's really eye opening seeing you guys just giving honest thoughts and feedback coming from 5e and you guys have definitely helped me better appreciate the game even though I've been playing it since all we had had was the Core book and a Bestiary. Ranger is one of those classes that I've seen lots of new players undervalue over the years, especially WHEN they come with past assumptions. The thing about the 2E ranger is the class HASN'T tied itself directly to nature or natural themes. It's tied to survival, and getting the upper hand on your target. And the class is SO versatile because of that. Want to play a detective solving crimes and digging for evidence and only have the core rulebook? ranger. Want the ultimate trapper, Fred Jones style catching foes in nets and pits? ranger. Want to cleave through an enemy with two weapons like a proper viking jumping from ship to ship? ranger. Want to ride a gigantic and powerful warhorse and charge your enemies with a sharpened lance? ranger.
I play rangers in PF 2e. My favorite is based on Van Helsing from the Hugh Jackman version. With the occult and arcana skills he makes for a psychic detective/explorer vibe. We use the archetype variant rules so I use Ranger as a foundation class that is a Damage monster. In our group we had a guy build a fighter that was similar to my ranger. The big difference was the my ranger that was better at focused damage and infiltration over the fighter as well as a few other bips and bobs that are baked into the class.
Well martials are essentially all single target hitters. Rangers are the main things: I spend all three actions to hit because I don't respect your M.A.P, one shot burst damage, or debuff the enemy so others can hit. After that you can branch out into many different ways to be useful in and outside of combat. They are also onenof the few classes that get quick draw allowing them to swap between weapons more effectively. Also just more often than not, a ranger is going first. I have a ranger build that is a precision edge with gravity weapon. They have attack of opportunity and a skill that allows them to attack and take a step action. Basically allows them to kite, reduce incoming damage, and just deal lots of damage while the enemy change them down.
Flurry is the most popular Edge while Outwit is the least popular. I'm playing a Precision one since the character is also a Gunslinger and Flurry doesn't work well with it. But to defend Outwit, there are some feats that aren't exclusive to it but definetely help that particular build. While it is the weakest of the 3, I don't think it is as bad as it looks and can be made to be pretty cool.
just so you know, i know you’re judging JUST the classes, but the intent of the game was never that you didn’t use archetypes. when developers were asked about ranger spellcasting, they answered very directly some quite like “in the final game, rangers can cast up to 8th level spells, just about anything a druid can”, having meant directly that a ranger with the druid archetype was how rangers were originally going to have most of their spells if an druid archetype is the spellcasting ranger subclass, it might be worth considering a class’s feats might be their subclasses too. and. also that every new published archetype is somewhat a new subclass
To be honest, saying that the stuff rangers do is only there for them can be said about most classes. If there's no rogue, you're not putting locked chests in the game. If there's no cleric, why do you care about religion checks? Pathfinder 2e has rules for hexploration, tracking, and survival that are expected to be used and that any character can interact with if trained in the appropriate skills. If you don't want to use them, that's up to you and it's your table, but that doesn't mean others don't. On a similar note, why do we need the Champion? You could just play a fighter that focuses on shields/defense and is roleplayed as pious, maybe takes some cleric archetype, and be good. Why have monk instead of giving fighter some unarmed feats and call it good? Not saying what you said is wrong, just that it's not unique to the ranger. Also, you're free to roleplay personal anathema and edicts if you want, nothing's stopping you. No need to force them onto every class/character outside of roleplay. Anyways, thanks for the content. I appreciate the love and effort.
@@JohahnDiechter That's what I'm saying, every class has access to survival/nature along with relevant feats and environmental hazards are also a type of hazard. My point is that ranger isn't any more superfluous as a class than others outside of your playstyle.
I love the pathfinder 2e ranger so much. The fact that it doesn't force you into traditional "ranger nature stuff" is so freeing. I made a knife throwing jester ranger who can throw knives fast and accurate and doesn't force me into the weird nature stuff.
Your definition of Open trait is a bit off. It doesn't have to be your first action, it has to be done before any attacks or open abilities. So you can Stride and then do an Open ability just fine.
i theory crafted a ranger im bout to start running. going rouge then acrobat then swashbuckler dedications, with flurry, twin feint, trumble strikes using the pirana kiss knives.
One day I'll get around to playing a Ranger who hates how dirty and uncomfortable the wilderness is. But being a Ranger is his only marketable skill, so he became an adventurer looking for the one big score that will allow him to retire in a nice big city.
I disagree with your comment that ranger can be done by a fighter, at least in 2e. Hunt prey adds specific things to the ranger that fighter cannot get. Hunters edge is the subclass and adds a ton. Precision ranger is the best ranged attacker for damage bump. It doesn't need flat foot to get this "sneak damage" bump. You can focus on one Big attack stacking with things like gravity weapon and animal companion support. Flurry ranger is the best at attacking effectively multiple times in a round and has feats to support multi attacking from range or duel wielding. Duel wielding with an agile weapon using twin takedown gets 2 attacks with full MAP, then MAP -2, for one action. No other class can do that. Outwit has its place as a more super utility bump, though it is decidedly weaker than the others. Ranger doesn't have to do wilderness-y stuff either. You can be an urban ranger just as much as wilderness. Hunt prey doesn't need to be used for tracking, but it can. Ranger is one of my favorite classes and both of my rangers in Pathfinder society barely lean into the survival aspect of being a ranger. Give it a look past level 1.
With some of these classes you're missing out because you haven't seen them in play. At level 1 a Flurry ranger with the Hunted Shot feat feels very different from a fighter. With Hunted Shot you take 2 shots for 1 action, but you combine them for the purposes of resistances - so if you are fighting skeletons with resistance 5 to piercing weapon, for those two shots you are losing just 5 damage, not 10 like everyone else. Since it was only 1 action you have 2 left to do other cool things, or since you are a Flurry ranger you can just keep attacking for a total of 4 shots per turn (the last 2 at a -6 rather than a -10). That feels amazing. You are Legolas. If you love doing big damage rangers are a great class. Compared to 5E "Hunt Prey" feels much better than "Hunter's Mark". It's not a spell so you aren't at risk of dropping concentration then running out of spell slots and having your main class feature removed for the rest of the day.
Can't argue you with you. Playing and reading certainly don't equal the same thing. We imagine many of our thoughts would change once we got these to the table. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
What's your deal with the anathema's. In the core book only druids, clerics barbarians and champions have those. So that's 4 out of 11. Anathema's are flavourfull but are usually tied to some supernatural force that your character has some kind of bond with. If you want an anathema play a druid. Or take a druid archtype The ranger is just a guy that knows alot about nature stuff, no special supernatural bonding with nature required.
The Hunter edges are combat bonusses. I think they are carefull with allowing players to stack them or switch between them to easilly . There is a level 18 feat that allows you to choose a different hunter's edge when marking a foe.(but you don't get the level 17 upgrade)
One note about outwit hunter, all of the skills can be used in combat as well. Intimidation - demoralize, deception - feint or create a diversion, stealth - hiding to make something flat footed and the usual sneaking, recall knowledge - exactly what you'd assume and rangers get a feat tree to further benefit.
Also the AC bonus never hurts, basically half a shield against your prey.
Yeah, they are going to have to get used to that coming from D&D, I know it's been a problem for me too.
Yeap if you love rangers and this is your 3 ranger and you have experience with the rules Outwit is amazing, the thing is out of the both the others ones are more easily to gasp what are you doing with them.
One big hit, 3 attacks all the rounds, etc.
Outwit is criminally underrated. +2 to Deception (Feint, Create a Distraction), Intimidation (Demoralize), and Stealth (Hide, Sneak) is great for in combat use. +2 to Recall Knowledge is great, especially when combined with the Monster Hunter feats, and the higher level feat that eventually lets you use Nature to Recall Knowledge on any creature. You can become an incredible support character, consistently placing debuffs on the enemy, and providing buffs to your party thanks to Legendary Nature, eventually getting +4 on Recall Knowledge checks, and Monster Hunter feats
12:27 I would count Hunter's Edge as subclasses. They are each specific enough that they should HEAVILY influence how you build your character
Outwit rangers are more like detectives or bounty hunters. The Hunt Prey action can be used outside of combat and is not limited to a monster or animal. Add in the Monster Hunter feats, and you have a support tank that can grant AC bonuses while being able to know weaknesses and be in melee
Appreciate your thoughts as always! It's really eye opening seeing you guys just giving honest thoughts and feedback coming from 5e and you guys have definitely helped me better appreciate the game even though I've been playing it since all we had had was the Core book and a Bestiary.
Ranger is one of those classes that I've seen lots of new players undervalue over the years, especially WHEN they come with past assumptions. The thing about the 2E ranger is the class HASN'T tied itself directly to nature or natural themes. It's tied to survival, and getting the upper hand on your target. And the class is SO versatile because of that.
Want to play a detective solving crimes and digging for evidence and only have the core rulebook? ranger. Want the ultimate trapper, Fred Jones style catching foes in nets and pits? ranger. Want to cleave through an enemy with two weapons like a proper viking jumping from ship to ship? ranger. Want to ride a gigantic and powerful warhorse and charge your enemies with a sharpened lance? ranger.
I play rangers in PF 2e. My favorite is based on Van Helsing from the Hugh Jackman version. With the occult and arcana skills he makes for a psychic detective/explorer vibe.
We use the archetype variant rules so I use Ranger as a foundation class that is a Damage monster.
In our group we had a guy build a fighter that was similar to my ranger. The big difference was the my ranger that was better at focused damage and infiltration over the fighter as well as a few other bips and bobs that are baked into the class.
Well martials are essentially all single target hitters. Rangers are the main things: I spend all three actions to hit because I don't respect your M.A.P, one shot burst damage, or debuff the enemy so others can hit.
After that you can branch out into many different ways to be useful in and outside of combat. They are also onenof the few classes that get quick draw allowing them to swap between weapons more effectively. Also just more often than not, a ranger is going first.
I have a ranger build that is a precision edge with gravity weapon. They have attack of opportunity and a skill that allows them to attack and take a step action.
Basically allows them to kite, reduce incoming damage, and just deal lots of damage while the enemy change them down.
Flurry is the most popular Edge while Outwit is the least popular. I'm playing a Precision one since the character is also a Gunslinger and Flurry doesn't work well with it.
But to defend Outwit, there are some feats that aren't exclusive to it but definetely help that particular build. While it is the weakest of the 3, I don't think it is as bad as it looks and can be made to be pretty cool.
just so you know, i know you’re judging JUST the classes, but the intent of the game was never that you didn’t use archetypes. when developers were asked about ranger spellcasting, they answered very directly some quite like “in the final game, rangers can cast up to 8th level spells, just about anything a druid can”, having meant directly that a ranger with the druid archetype was how rangers were originally going to have most of their spells
if an druid archetype is the spellcasting ranger subclass, it might be worth considering a class’s feats might be their subclasses too. and. also that every new published archetype is somewhat a new subclass
Have a ranger for the first time shortly in a fresh game in two days. He's basically made a Witcher, and I support this fantasy!
To be honest, saying that the stuff rangers do is only there for them can be said about most classes. If there's no rogue, you're not putting locked chests in the game. If there's no cleric, why do you care about religion checks? Pathfinder 2e has rules for hexploration, tracking, and survival that are expected to be used and that any character can interact with if trained in the appropriate skills. If you don't want to use them, that's up to you and it's your table, but that doesn't mean others don't.
On a similar note, why do we need the Champion? You could just play a fighter that focuses on shields/defense and is roleplayed as pious, maybe takes some cleric archetype, and be good. Why have monk instead of giving fighter some unarmed feats and call it good? Not saying what you said is wrong, just that it's not unique to the ranger. Also, you're free to roleplay personal anathema and edicts if you want, nothing's stopping you. No need to force them onto every class/character outside of roleplay.
Anyways, thanks for the content. I appreciate the love and effort.
Every class has access to thievery and a few other classes have access to trap related class feats. Traps, btw, are only one type of hazard.
@@JohahnDiechter That's what I'm saying, every class has access to survival/nature along with relevant feats and environmental hazards are also a type of hazard. My point is that ranger isn't any more superfluous as a class than others outside of your playstyle.
I love the pathfinder 2e ranger so much. The fact that it doesn't force you into traditional "ranger nature stuff" is so freeing. I made a knife throwing jester ranger who can throw knives fast and accurate and doesn't force me into the weird nature stuff.
Your definition of Open trait is a bit off. It doesn't have to be your first action, it has to be done before any attacks or open abilities. So you can Stride and then do an Open ability just fine.
i theory crafted a ranger im bout to start running. going rouge then acrobat then swashbuckler dedications, with flurry, twin feint, trumble strikes using the pirana kiss knives.
One day I'll get around to playing a Ranger who hates how dirty and uncomfortable the wilderness is. But being a Ranger is his only marketable skill, so he became an adventurer looking for the one big score that will allow him to retire in a nice big city.
I disagree with your comment that ranger can be done by a fighter, at least in 2e. Hunt prey adds specific things to the ranger that fighter cannot get.
Hunters edge is the subclass and adds a ton.
Precision ranger is the best ranged attacker for damage bump. It doesn't need flat foot to get this "sneak damage" bump. You can focus on one Big attack stacking with things like gravity weapon and animal companion support.
Flurry ranger is the best at attacking effectively multiple times in a round and has feats to support multi attacking from range or duel wielding. Duel wielding with an agile weapon using twin takedown gets 2 attacks with full MAP, then MAP -2, for one action. No other class can do that.
Outwit has its place as a more super utility bump, though it is decidedly weaker than the others.
Ranger doesn't have to do wilderness-y stuff either. You can be an urban ranger just as much as wilderness. Hunt prey doesn't need to be used for tracking, but it can.
Ranger is one of my favorite classes and both of my rangers in Pathfinder society barely lean into the survival aspect of being a ranger.
Give it a look past level 1.
With some of these classes you're missing out because you haven't seen them in play. At level 1 a Flurry ranger with the Hunted Shot feat feels very different from a fighter. With Hunted Shot you take 2 shots for 1 action, but you combine them for the purposes of resistances - so if you are fighting skeletons with resistance 5 to piercing weapon, for those two shots you are losing just 5 damage, not 10 like everyone else. Since it was only 1 action you have 2 left to do other cool things, or since you are a Flurry ranger you can just keep attacking for a total of 4 shots per turn (the last 2 at a -6 rather than a -10). That feels amazing. You are Legolas. If you love doing big damage rangers are a great class.
Compared to 5E "Hunt Prey" feels much better than "Hunter's Mark". It's not a spell so you aren't at risk of dropping concentration then running out of spell slots and having your main class feature removed for the rest of the day.
Can't argue you with you. Playing and reading certainly don't equal the same thing. We imagine many of our thoughts would change once we got these to the table. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
What's your deal with the anathema's. In the core book only druids, clerics barbarians and champions have those. So that's 4 out of 11.
Anathema's are flavourfull but are usually tied to some supernatural force that your character has some kind of bond with.
If you want an anathema play a druid. Or take a druid archtype
The ranger is just a guy that knows alot about nature stuff, no special supernatural bonding with nature required.
The Hunter edges are combat bonusses. I think they are carefull with allowing players to stack them or switch between them to easilly
. There is a level 18 feat that allows you to choose a different hunter's edge when marking a foe.(but you don't get the level 17 upgrade)
Not every class needs or should have anathema for their mechanics.
I agree. Should be something you opt into if you are into that.
Oh hey are you aware of the fact there adding eddux and anthema to character options in the pathfinder remastered project :p
Mechanics don't need to add anathema to every class, some of them should come from the PLAYER.