Look at one thing I learned (by doing), and I'll leave my vision here: it's to separate the essentials that need to be synchronized, many of the things on the screen don't need to be 1:1 for all players, especially EFFECTS, unlike damage, weapons, position of special objects, events, etc., anyway, as it's an online game, a small different position (emphasis on small) with the same result doesn't affect the player, let the players visually calculate the battle, but the results only on the host, or when it's finished the host sends its result, I'm not saying it's simple, but it's one of the ways to do NetCode
This is the exact same realization I came to when experimenting with Unity NGO. I had to refactor my project three times and eventually ended up here. Great advice!
You needed deterministic behavior/physics/AI. This way you could run the same initial state on any number of machines and expect the same end result Syncing units or projectiles is easy when done on a server though, as the server simulates the battle and clients only receive dummy data for visuals (this way you don't need determinism)
how about take a break for a few weeks instead of abandon project? this is a gnarly bug but it’s just a bug. other games can handle much higher volume of network data, maybe bug is elsewhere in stack.
Good luck with what you want to do next! I personally think you could still launch hidden tactics as a single player game, it probably won't do as well but at least it's not wasted effort. I started an RTS game for my first game but quickly abandoned it to make a simple 2d platformer I could feasibly complete. A few of times I just gave up and didn't work on it at all. It took me 5 years to finally launch it on Steam. At some point, you got to mash everything you have into a cohesive package and release it. Otherwise you will just give up while trying to add more content. Add more content post-launch.
Since it sounds you are new into multiplayer scheme you just need few pieces for the puzzle. I can already tell that you don't need to change your game functionality to make it online multiplayer. But I am not sure if Unity itself offers that of which I would do. Happy coding!
Good decision bud, with only these many wishlists it just wasn't worth putting that much effort now. Also someone mentioned in comments which is good that you are just not ready yet (for multiplayer) it's a huge task. So maybe in future when your other released games ate making you money then you can invest some time back into this project and I am pretty sure with all the knowledge you will get from releasing other titles, you will know the value of time and what customer really care about. So that might help you scoping your project right and also stop wasting time on small things which as developers we always overtaking about 😅. My mom is the only come who see my game art and she always says look, no one is gonna look at it with soo much attention and I was like you are right, if I a player will go through some place say quickly they won't really care how detailed the surrounding was or the textures of object etc. Anyways, I wish you good luck with your next project 😊 it looks promising already.
I am not game maker Or anything But as concept I thought That in multiplayer You need to throw all graphics to user And skeleton simulation without graphics on server While getting change signal From user and sending result signal to users While parallel transferring result simulation scenes in background While doing some math of what is unchangeable (Removing from download) And only responding to the change Same as in optimizing graphics You dont send information on all pixels Only on those who need to change And even that cut by half as not all information is critical to be displayed But i might be talking BS Simply my thoughts
Franchement, chapeau d'avoir eu le courage d'abandonner, ça n'a vraiment pas eu l'air d'être facile mais sache qu'on est tous derrière toi 😁👍 (Au passage, j'étais vraiment hype pour hidden tactics, si il y a moyen de récupérer une version qui marche en LAN... Voilà, je laisse ça là, courage !!! 💪)
You never used object pooling? I’d assume you used it in Starve. But I totally get it, I admire how you keep trying. I give up too easily, only finished one game in like 3 years. It’s embarassing
There are a LOT of problems in your development that I didn't see you adress in your video: 1. Marketing is not just promotion. Your genre, artstyle and aim for multiplayer didn't match what's selling on Steam (your platform of choice) nor did I see a market analysis to see why your game is worth buying. 2. Asset flipping. If you need to do this, don't. If you are super into making the game by yourself, by all means do it. But do something that you CAN do, and preferible that ONLY YOU can do. 3. Solo developing. Only if you are like, a great programmer, great designer, great storyteller, great artist and great musician you should do it by yourself. If not, get a team. If you don't get a team hyped for making your game, that's a huge red flag. A team helps you filter the fluff, the ego and helps you make better decisions, as well as share the workload and responsabilities. 4. Your tech. You where making all of this just for this game??????? What about the next one? Are you gonna do a tactics multiplayer as well for your second game? If not, it doesn't make sense to invest SO MUCH time, pipeline, know-how and resources on building everything from the groun up just for one game that most probably no one will play. 5. Steampage. You mentioned a trailer for your steampage launch.... ok? What a about a demo? What about online events? What about showcases? 6. Playtesting. You mentioned that you played with your buddies.... Are they your market? Did you enter a tactics community to get their feedback??? 7. Side Hustle. Being a youtuber while making a game. Thats a HUGEEEEE red flag. If you are making content, you are not making the game, more so a game done all by yourself man. It was obviously gonna lead to burn out. Pick a lane! 8. Ego. There's so much ego, and don't get me wrong, it's completly normal, that's the Dunning-Kruger curve. But to really think that your first game, one that you made watching tutorials on youtube, while still doing youtube videos, is gonna be commercially viable with SO MUCH gaps in your plan, speaks to me that you really didn't think it through. 9. Commitment. Your new game is always gonna be the one you are most passionate about... for a while. You'll still grow to hate it. It's completely normal and you should know that's just the honeymoon phase. For a real game, you should aim for comitment. There are gonna be terrible days, there are going to be great days. It's all about putting a deadline, a budget and scoping correctly to reach it. If not, it's going to happen this to you again, and again, and again. 10. Plan. All of the above speaks of a lack of understanding of what a game is. A game is not an idea. It's not a prototype. It's not a Vertical Slice. You should plan more. And plan for a plan if the original plan fails. You need A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc. Aim for success, but prepare for failure because, honestly, you will fail, A LOT. And that's ok (: There's so much positive comments in this video that I wanted to share a different perspective. Cause I know it's not easy, but come on man, developing independent videogames has always been and will forever be, a very difficult thing to do. You need to take it more seriously if you really want it to happen imo
Also: Don't release your next game in Early Access if you still haven't like 10K Wishlist, a demo, a trailer and a steampage up an running at least 6 months prior. It's a common misconception but launching Early Access is LAUNCHING YOUR GAME. Steam counts it as so. If the algorithm doesn't pick you up, your game is as good as dead! I want to see you succeed man, but you need to research more of what you are doing to have a solid plan!
@@JG-nm9zk Did you watch the video? 1:36 clearly says it sponsored by MiniFantasy, and that those assets are the ones he's been using in all of his games. Even if he was secretly the creator behind the MiniFantasy assets, it's still Asset Flipping cause other games can have it and will look alike. Draining of all the originality and uniqueness from it. EDIT: In the description it clearly says its from a pixel artist called Krishna Palacio. What are you on man???
I don't like the fact that you say things with such confidence. I think inde developpers can exist, I think it's OK to continue filming video while developing. He is not talking about burn out. I feel some of your points are out of context which doesn't help me to understand your point.
@@romaneq6415 Totally valid critique, but it's in good faith, my man. We have 20x more wishlists with out little teaser, with a more viable project on a much larger scale. And we are nowhere to be found on social media, youtube, etc. At 10:40 he talks about burn out and its troubles on his mental health. All the other points I mention are valid because, he is not making it for fun, it's not a hobby, he talks about commercial viability and investment. It's clearly a comercial videogame, trying to be profesionally made. Like I said at the start of my comment, I didn't see ANY of those points adressed, just scope creep which was not the problem imo. It's like talking about a stomach ache and drinking pepto-bismol to fix it instead of analysing why your stomach ached in the first place. I've been a uni profesor for over 8 years and a videogame profesional over 12. I don't know everything, but I know what I'm talking about. Take it or leave it. Hope it helps anyone really. If not, that's ok.
Look at one thing I learned (by doing), and I'll leave my vision here: it's to separate the essentials that need to be synchronized, many of the things on the screen don't need to be 1:1 for all players, especially EFFECTS, unlike damage, weapons, position of special objects, events, etc., anyway, as it's an online game, a small different position (emphasis on small) with the same result doesn't affect the player, let the players visually calculate the battle, but the results only on the host, or when it's finished the host sends its result, I'm not saying it's simple, but it's one of the ways to do NetCode
This is the exact same realization I came to when experimenting with Unity NGO. I had to refactor my project three times and eventually ended up here. Great advice!
You are not a failure , you are just not there yet ! ♥
You needed deterministic behavior/physics/AI. This way you could run the same initial state on any number of machines and expect the same end result
Syncing units or projectiles is easy when done on a server though, as the server simulates the battle and clients only receive dummy data for visuals (this way you don't need determinism)
Love this video, glad to have you back here
J'apprécie que tu montres tes contres temps également! Courage pour la suite :)
Merci beaucoup 😁
That's unfortunate, but at least you're not giving up and you also learned a lot from the experience, which is quite important. Great video!
Ngl, that's a bummer, but don't worry too much. As long as you're passionate and enjoy working on your projects, you can't do anything wrong :)
Great video. Multiplayer is so hard even for big studios. Great you learned a lot.
Very good sign for your new game:
Caught my attention, I might need to buy that
The first mistake was to make a small board game for Steam, those never succeed.
how about take a break for a few weeks instead of abandon project? this is a gnarly bug but it’s just a bug. other games can handle much higher volume of network data, maybe bug is elsewhere in stack.
Good luck with what you want to do next! I personally think you could still launch hidden tactics as a single player game, it probably won't do as well but at least it's not wasted effort.
I started an RTS game for my first game but quickly abandoned it to make a simple 2d platformer I could feasibly complete.
A few of times I just gave up and didn't work on it at all. It took me 5 years to finally launch it on Steam.
At some point, you got to mash everything you have into a cohesive package and release it. Otherwise you will just give up while trying to add more content. Add more content post-launch.
Exactly! Congrats on your release 👏
Since it sounds you are new into multiplayer scheme you just need few pieces for the puzzle.
I can already tell that you don't need to change your game functionality to make it online multiplayer.
But I am not sure if Unity itself offers that of which I would do. Happy coding!
Good decision bud, with only these many wishlists it just wasn't worth putting that much effort now. Also someone mentioned in comments which is good that you are just not ready yet (for multiplayer) it's a huge task. So maybe in future when your other released games ate making you money then you can invest some time back into this project and I am pretty sure with all the knowledge you will get from releasing other titles, you will know the value of time and what customer really care about. So that might help you scoping your project right and also stop wasting time on small things which as developers we always overtaking about 😅. My mom is the only come who see my game art and she always says look, no one is gonna look at it with soo much attention and I was like you are right, if I a player will go through some place say quickly they won't really care how detailed the surrounding was or the textures of object etc.
Anyways, I wish you good luck with your next project 😊 it looks promising already.
I like to send the whole game state every frame. Especially for such small games it should be possible.
To be fair, for the few small projects I did I wrote a lot of stuff to be able to do that with a single https request to or from my server.
I am not game maker
Or anything
But as concept
I thought
That in multiplayer
You need to throw all graphics to user
And skeleton simulation without graphics on server
While getting change signal
From user and sending result signal to users
While parallel transferring result simulation scenes in background
While doing some math of what is unchangeable
(Removing from download)
And only responding to the change
Same as in optimizing graphics
You dont send information on all pixels
Only on those who need to change
And even that cut by half as not all information is critical to be displayed
But i might be talking BS
Simply my thoughts
Franchement, chapeau d'avoir eu le courage d'abandonner, ça n'a vraiment pas eu l'air d'être facile mais sache qu'on est tous derrière toi 😁👍
(Au passage, j'étais vraiment hype pour hidden tactics, si il y a moyen de récupérer une version qui marche en LAN... Voilà, je laisse ça là, courage !!! 💪)
Merci pour ton commentaire, qui donne un boost au moral ! J'espère vraiment que je pourrai faire quelque chose de Hidden Tactics un jour 😊
Also, steam has "play together" making you not obliged to do online multiplayer. Anyway hope the best for you, keep it up
Hidden Tactics looked great! Hope you can resurrect it one day. Good luck on the new game!
You never used object pooling? I’d assume you used it in Starve. But I totally get it, I admire how you keep trying. I give up too easily, only finished one game in like 3 years. It’s embarassing
Don't worry. Finishing a game is really hard and time consuming.. but we'll get there !
wait, so did you ever eventually get the network code figured out?
two L make a W we all been there good job keeping your chin up
6k subs and you are blasting ads at us. whyyyyy
I'll take what is an ad blocker for 200
There are a LOT of problems in your development that I didn't see you adress in your video:
1. Marketing is not just promotion. Your genre, artstyle and aim for multiplayer didn't match what's selling on Steam (your platform of choice) nor did I see a market analysis to see why your game is worth buying.
2. Asset flipping. If you need to do this, don't. If you are super into making the game by yourself, by all means do it. But do something that you CAN do, and preferible that ONLY YOU can do.
3. Solo developing. Only if you are like, a great programmer, great designer, great storyteller, great artist and great musician you should do it by yourself. If not, get a team. If you don't get a team hyped for making your game, that's a huge red flag. A team helps you filter the fluff, the ego and helps you make better decisions, as well as share the workload and responsabilities.
4. Your tech. You where making all of this just for this game??????? What about the next one? Are you gonna do a tactics multiplayer as well for your second game? If not, it doesn't make sense to invest SO MUCH time, pipeline, know-how and resources on building everything from the groun up just for one game that most probably no one will play.
5. Steampage. You mentioned a trailer for your steampage launch.... ok? What a about a demo? What about online events? What about showcases?
6. Playtesting. You mentioned that you played with your buddies.... Are they your market? Did you enter a tactics community to get their feedback???
7. Side Hustle. Being a youtuber while making a game. Thats a HUGEEEEE red flag. If you are making content, you are not making the game, more so a game done all by yourself man. It was obviously gonna lead to burn out. Pick a lane!
8. Ego. There's so much ego, and don't get me wrong, it's completly normal, that's the Dunning-Kruger curve. But to really think that your first game, one that you made watching tutorials on youtube, while still doing youtube videos, is gonna be commercially viable with SO MUCH gaps in your plan, speaks to me that you really didn't think it through.
9. Commitment. Your new game is always gonna be the one you are most passionate about... for a while. You'll still grow to hate it. It's completely normal and you should know that's just the honeymoon phase. For a real game, you should aim for comitment. There are gonna be terrible days, there are going to be great days. It's all about putting a deadline, a budget and scoping correctly to reach it. If not, it's going to happen this to you again, and again, and again.
10. Plan. All of the above speaks of a lack of understanding of what a game is. A game is not an idea. It's not a prototype. It's not a Vertical Slice. You should plan more. And plan for a plan if the original plan fails. You need A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc. Aim for success, but prepare for failure because, honestly, you will fail, A LOT. And that's ok (:
There's so much positive comments in this video that I wanted to share a different perspective. Cause I know it's not easy, but come on man, developing independent videogames has always been and will forever be, a very difficult thing to do. You need to take it more seriously if you really want it to happen imo
Also: Don't release your next game in Early Access if you still haven't like 10K Wishlist, a demo, a trailer and a steampage up an running at least 6 months prior. It's a common misconception but launching Early Access is LAUNCHING YOUR GAME. Steam counts it as so. If the algorithm doesn't pick you up, your game is as good as dead!
I want to see you succeed man, but you need to research more of what you are doing to have a solid plan!
Asset flipping his own assets?
@@JG-nm9zk Did you watch the video? 1:36 clearly says it sponsored by MiniFantasy, and that those assets are the ones he's been using in all of his games.
Even if he was secretly the creator behind the MiniFantasy assets, it's still Asset Flipping cause other games can have it and will look alike. Draining of all the originality and uniqueness from it.
EDIT: In the description it clearly says its from a pixel artist called Krishna Palacio. What are you on man???
I don't like the fact that you say things with such confidence. I think inde developpers can exist, I think it's OK to continue filming video while developing. He is not talking about burn out.
I feel some of your points are out of context which doesn't help me to understand your point.
@@romaneq6415 Totally valid critique, but it's in good faith, my man. We have 20x more wishlists with out little teaser, with a more viable project on a much larger scale. And we are nowhere to be found on social media, youtube, etc.
At 10:40 he talks about burn out and its troubles on his mental health.
All the other points I mention are valid because, he is not making it for fun, it's not a hobby, he talks about commercial viability and investment. It's clearly a comercial videogame, trying to be profesionally made. Like I said at the start of my comment, I didn't see ANY of those points adressed, just scope creep which was not the problem imo.
It's like talking about a stomach ache and drinking pepto-bismol to fix it instead of analysing why your stomach ached in the first place.
I've been a uni profesor for over 8 years and a videogame profesional over 12. I don't know everything, but I know what I'm talking about.
Take it or leave it. Hope it helps anyone really. If not, that's ok.
Good call. The game looked bad and unfun tbh