Do Games Workshop have an early warbands problem in Underworlds?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Rob and Pete sit and look at the recent bugmans clash and the large portion of Season 1 and 2 warbands that attended and ask the question Do #gamesworkshop have an early warbands problem in #underworlds?
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At the very least they should release the cards as print on demand. I have Malifaux cards printed at WargameVault. Many of the Shadespire models are available standalone. I have a Magore’s Fiends box but can’t find cards. I emailed GW and they pointed me toward the secondary market. Seems easy enough to let a 3rd party handle the printing, no fuss for them.
We play locally only with faction Cards plus Essential pack and Season 1 Warbands work great
I’m trying to understand the state of the game in early 2023, so although its well after you recorded this it was still very interesting, thanks
Anything we can do to help on your quest, let us know!
It's a good sign; with Rivals+ I think it encourages people who dropped out to join in ... except that people can't get the older cards if they want them.
Yeah that’s the biggest issue.
So I think once per quarter GW should re-release a warband that fits the theme of the current season and give them updated cards, stats, and even some of the seasonal mechanics.
That is a genius idea!
Love these conversational videos, especially washups - just freeform chatting about thoughts on a game. Keep them coming!
Cheers! We certainly will!
Me and my friend both got into underworlds when direchasm was released. We have more or less every warband now, I know gw doesn’t sell them but the majority you can still find bnib on eBay. Although I agree that’ll only last so long, it’d be nice if they could do a pdf giving the earlier legacy warbands a list of the extra 3 objective cards so they could be played in rivals.
Anyway love the content, keep up the great work!
I would still love to see card packs that updated each season to bring them into line. So the card pack would contain updated character cards, some tweaks to older faction cards and a new card so each can compete in Rivals for each warband in a season.
Do a Pack for each season over the course of the year.
I do like the idea of Rivals+ but in practice would get more games in if Rivals was supported properly for all warbands. The card packs could allow this.
GW killed the game with the consecutive price prices. Underworlds was a fun gateway game that was relatively affordable, people have lost interest in it because it's now just as expensive as any specialist game. Combined with the fact that the more recent warbands are less and less aesthetically pleasing means people don't want to buy expensive ugly models when they can use their cool existing warbands. Plus the new art work and backs to the cards make it jarring on the eye. Just my thoughts as a casual.
The change in card backs is entirely nonsensical. Really shooting themselves in the foot.
@@AgentsofSigmar for sure, if you have them mixed into a regular deck they stand out like a sore thumb!
100% my thoughts as well. You’ve nailed it, I think.
These are plastic miniatures with expensive tooling which surely must still be in good shape considering the scope of the game. I'd imagine at some point there will be responsible releases when they feel it would be most profitable. It's been recent enough though (only like 5 years) that along of the lowercase owns them
I would like GW to re-issue the S1, S2, S3 war bands grouped in alliance box sets for WarCry as defined in the Tome Of Champions 2021. These box sets would also include cards for Underworlds. Too Logical. Therefore they will not do it.
I really need underworld warband cards for bladeborn. Probably won't ever happen cause there's no demand though...
I think lots of people would love to see this. It is dependent on Bladeborn being readily available too, though.
This is something I have always wondered about. If only they reprinted updated cards (with keywords, as they did in the new FAQ and new ploys and upgrades) for older warbands, they would sell A LOT of the old miniatures, since they are gorgeous.
So that would be an awesome way to sell more with the minimum effort of just printing new cards.
I think that part of the interest in earlier warbands is that Rivals + is the only format in which those warbands could be realistically played. S1 and S2 warbands cannot play Rivals unless they go lean entirely on Silent Menace or Illusory Might (neither option of which is attractive on its own), and have largely been left behind in Championship where they'd be better off using completely universal decks which remove any sense of uniqueness in their decks, setting them up as largely "they can do this but another warband could probably do it better". Rivals + lets them retain their character, use some of their cards where wanted, and draw from a single pool of cards without having to chase for super strong cards across multiple new warbands. If it was Championship I suspect we'd see a lot less people trying to make S1 and S2 warbands work, and they certainly wouldn't appear in Rivals at all.
So should GW do something to support these S1 and S2 warbands? Definitely, but they'd have to be actively supporting Rivals + for it to make sense to do it. Alternatively, if they could release updated S1 and S2 warbands, not just with new cards but with a new faction cards to complete a Rivals deck, that would be awesome. Most of us would also relish the chance to paint the minis again (it's been a couple of years and most of us have improved in our painting). They could even be really awesome and release them in new sculpts, but that would surely be asking way too much!\
Yes and no. You are right in that older warbands tend to be heavily built around universals but the "why play them if another wb can do it better " isnt neccserily true. Several of them have a plethora of strong and fun ploys and/or inspire mechanic which makes me favor them over others even in championship (gits, skaven, Godsworn to name some personal favorites)
You both are spot on regarding the imbalance in Rivals+ towards the Essentials Deck. One solution I heard (can't recall where) is to split the Essentials deck into two different card pools. I don't see GW doing this, and it is fairly inelegant. I have what I believe to be a simple, elegant solution. When selecting which deck to supplement one's faction deck with, the options would be:
a. Essentials Deck;
b. Silent Menace plus the corresponding Grand Alliance ("GA") cards from Harrowdeep;
c. Illusory Might plus the corresponding GA cards from Harrowdeep.
The Grand Alliance cards will number 15 per alliance after the next expansion. That will help to narrow the advantage the Essentials Deck has simply in card count. My only concern is whether to rotate out GA cards or not, but that is a problem for later as we do not even know whether GW's official Rivals format will eventually rotate out its bespoke decks.
The other problem is a lot of the GA cards aren't particularly good, so giving people access to them doesn't help offset the essentials deck. The only thing I can think of really is to ban the essentials, which seems ridiculous, or make a lot more of the cards restricted (or maybe just limit the percentage of deck that's allowed to be non faction based)...
I started at the release of Direchasm. There are a few warbands i really would like, which i cant get.
I just don't see GW doing anything about it at this point. They really need to, but they're always sell models first, maybe worry about problems with a game later. And it really feels like they're a bit lost when it comes to Underworlds atm.
They really do atm
Could they not just reproduce the old warbands slowly?
I'm a big Magic the Gathering player and Wizards always reprint old cards into new sets.
Is there some major reason why this couldn't happen?
None. Other than the fact they said they won't.
Id rather they didnt invalidate the first 2 seasons. Cards need updating. Also need to make those warbands available to newer players- a rerelease may be in order
I'm still preplexed that Narvia and Turosh from Eo9 aren't lvl 1 Wizards and their ranged attacks should've been spell attacks with hit on lightning or something, the attack is even called "sorcerous bolt". It would help out a lot in scoring their casting spells objectives and you would have more opportunities to inspire K'charik even if your leader dies and the enemy team has no one who can cast a spell. Just my 2 cents
This is one of life's great mysteries. It might have actually made them playable!
So I can still use my ironskulls boyz in the current edition, or have they need superseded? I’m not looking for anything competitive or tournament, just a casual club/home game
Casual you can do anything you like, as long as your opponent doesn't mind. But in any case none of the factions or their faction specific cards have rotated out, so you can still use them.
The only problem, currently is that for Rivals format, the older warbands can't make legal decks. So you have to use either the Silent Menace or illusory Might deck for a true Rivals experience.
Maybe because we don't want to paint any more warbands.
Do you mean that's why you play with old ones? You don't have to paint the warbands though and are there none that have come out recently that haven't appealed?
There are 5 season so there should be a spread of 20% each season. So 40% for season one and two combined seems perfect
You make a good point. Though, I guess if a game is evolving you want people to be moving with you?
The problem is also that buying every team is costly and time consuming enough. And if there is only a limited time to get them all...
Yeah. I understand the need not to have old stock on the shelves but the rotation speed is punishing. Be interesting to see what effect the rise in the cost of living has on release schedule.
@@AgentsofSigmar well it would be good if you atleast order them even if you didn't have them lying around on the shelves.
@@AgentsofSigmar it likely won't have any- cost of living does nothing to stop investors and shareholders from expecting higher profit year on year unfortunately...
you can get the warbands just not the cards
This is true, though that is a problem if you then want to take them to a tournament
Direchasm was my exit point for Underworlds. I found it very balanced and well designed. Harrowdeep launched with so many bumps that I lost all my excitement for the game, and then saw all the material I had bought that I never really ever wanted to play. Through that lens I started seeing Underworlds sort of like a rudderless ship. There’s no clear sign to me that GW has any idea what they want Underworlds to be, or really a good understanding of the kind of game it is.
I would agree with this. I think (hope) that will change in the next few months.
GW killed this game for me. I "only" have four full seasons and a dozen boards. That does not work well soemhow. When teh cardsbacks changed it wa just .....
Yeah. For a company that often seems to make strange decisions, this one is peculiar even by those standards.
How about...universals get removed from warband packs/core boxes and are released just as stand alone decks. Championship format disappears. Rivals+ becomes new "competitive" standard. Old warbands get rotated out and relegated to relic format.
That would be pretty drastic. Any one of those changes would be good, I think. Not sure we'd ever see all three.
Why invalidate people preferences for older warbands though?
If I want to play Goblins, why take away my option to and not try to make my option a better, more inclusive one instead? The more people that can have fun, the better.
Restricting warbands made sense in Mordheim when there was a very specific feel and theme to the game, but even the more bizarre factions got releases in expansions that for their setting.
@@LieutenantSteel Kinda funny my comment 7 months on, universals aren't in warband expansions, rivals+ is now the main format they're pushing and if the next 2 decks released have plot cards, championship will be very restricted and basically be nemesis with an extra deck choice.
The logic for rotating old warbands, here's a few reasons off the top of my head.
A, you can't buy them anymore so new players dont get to enjoy them and is a negative player experience
B, it's far easier to balance a game when you're not contending with 46 warbands
C, testing time is shorter and less complex for the same reason
D, it limits scope for future design space such as they can't lean heavily into magic because cursebreakers still exist
E, the power creep has meant that for the most part, the old warbands are just out played by the new ones
F, you can't use them in Rivals so it limits the play-ability of them for new players
G, wording and verbage has changed in the last 5 years and causes conflicts in rules, like healing vs remove wound counters in Yltharis
and you could still play them, just in relic or in casual games, just not in a competitive format
@@AgentsofSigmar Just missing the old warband rotation...😁
@@craigsargent2476 Unlike most things on the internet, your comment has aged well!