No marks for the reference stance! Where do I mount my bindings?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ม.ค. 2025
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Video description and related videos:
Setting up a new snowboard can be confusing - in particular when there are no indictions of a reference stance on the top sheet! This video will help you to understand what a manufacturer has in mind when placing the inserts on a board.
Here are a few helpful links for even more information:
Take your own measurements of your board to better understand how everything works:
• Board design #5: Under...
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Pro Tip for your stance setup:
• Snowboard Stance Setup...
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Guideline to finding a good stance width:
• Guideline to finding a...
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Centring your bindings:
• Binding setup: Boot ce...
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More edge pressure with highback rotation:
• Snowboard binding adju...
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Functional waist width:
• Snowboard Waist Width ...
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also @Lars, curious if you'd consider doing a 'TH-cam Live' where we can do a live Q and A. You are a wealth of great info that I think so many can benefit from, and we can cover a TONNE of info in a short amount of time doing a Live.
Cool idea!! I'm gonna think about this!! Nice one :-) Thanks!
Super insightful. I’m looking forward to again measure things on my board that I never measured before. One thing I might add are that the disks of bindings often have hole patterns that let you do adjustments that can give you more control over the exact binding placement. I have fairly short legs and on one of my boards it allows me to go with a narrower stance width than is usually possible.
@@AluinKali haha, I said and showed that in this very video. 😅
@@Justaride-Snowboard-ChannelOops my bad. Guess I got caught sleeping in class 🥶
Thanks Lars, this is helpful advice. Moved to a Yes PYL DCP board this year and was feeling the washout with my stance. Appreciate the sidecut discussion!
Wash out has many, many reasons - mostly to be found in the rider!! Actually, 100% to be found in the rider!! Had I weighted my back foot earlier in the turn on this K2 board here, it wouldn't have had that sensation! That's what I learned riding such shapes. But my conclusion is simply that I don't like riding that way all the time, hence my decision to move the stance.
Thanks!
Thank you kindly!! :-)
The best video everrrr…🎉🎉🎉reaalyyyy need this topic. Dear Lars, one thing I notice when I go for narrow stance , I cant get low enough and lose control, but if I open it up, pencil line appears on snow, and if too wide, washed out tail comes. Love to hear your opinion.big fan
36 /24 or 36/18 , stance 56 or 60 cm/japan style carve.
Sorry, can't tell 100%.... other than bending your knees in a narrower stance is more difficult anatomically... The reason for wash out rarely lies in stance.
Thanks for this, Lars. Another useful and informative video:)
Well done as always
@@ericmikkelsen thank you!!
Ty Lars for the great video. This will realy help me to finish my setup.
Thanks Lars! I'm actually able to find the reference stance on all my snowboards except for.... my Stranda Descender, they don't seem to have that data online (or I can't find it at least). Useful video to make sense of it based on their other data points. I've just been using center mounting points
Realistically I would just try moving your bindings around until you find something you like
It's all on the Stranda page under every model. But centre of inserts is reference - as I stated in this video.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel yeah just realized this after watching your video. Didn't know how to interpret this prior. Thanks again!
On a directional board sliding that front foot all the way back and adjusting my back foot from there does provide less tow drag on that back foot.. a lot of times I might be all the way back on the front foot and then centered on the back inserts for my rear foot. Maybe 520 mm stance with
Thanks, great topic and well explained.
@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Another great video to appreciate the nuances of both board design and riding approach! I think it would be fun to do a segment and go a bit deeper on your views of sitting in the side-cut in different situations. Go deeper on Taper and throw in progressive, too. For example, it seems that many people go for full set-back when riding in pow (where your edges don't matter). My philosophy has been that being too far back messes up the rest of your riding. That said, the Tribute guys ride said they ride their BSODs back one click (and even +/+). Between this vid and their comment I am going to try that to make the board a bit more biased to freeride, but I suspect I'll need to adjust to be a little more front-foot with a carve (which is my bias anyway). ... okay... a bit of a ramble but I hope you can go a little deeper. Thanks again!!
Hahaha.... Been thinking about making the video you are suggesting all morning.... 🙂
I ride front foot heavy so always have that binding all the way back, then measure stance width from that as my reference. Not sure how weird that is but it works for me.
I love this! "What works for me!" That's what my message is all about. Here's some guidance, now go play and figure out YOUR TRUTH! Nice one!!
Perhaps a question for another video… Why do you ride a narrower stance as your board gets longer? For the Descender I’m not so surprised but the Pipeliner your stance is even narrower than the Cheeter!
Because my angles are steeper and it's full on carving commitment on that board. On the new Pipeliner, which is much wider, I can ride mellower angles and ride 53cm stance like on most other boards.,
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Ahh, so the high angles were to avoid foot drag as opposed to more of an alpine stance/form, and the angles forced the narrower stance. Gotcha! Thanks!
Really great vid! Thanks
Good info!
I've always tried to stay centered over the camber, which perhaps is the same as sidecut in this particular example.
I don't think that would necessarily be the case considering that a board could have a significant rocker in the nose and almost no rocker in the tail for example, that would give you a setback camber, but not necessarily a setback sidecut.
Yeah. Usually the camber and the sidecut line up.
Yeah, that's two different things, which may or may not have been designed together for a particular outcome. It's crazy how complex board design is!!!
Very much depends.....
amazing content Lars, keep it up. I've got a Burton Custom X and feel most comfortable with a bit of a wider stance (~24"), and focussing on carving, experimenting with posi-posi stance (+25, +9). How would you suggest I set up my bindings from the reference points? Presumably the manufacturers reference points on the board assume a +12,-12 stance meaning the board has been designed to optimally perform with the heels or toes putting pressure on specific points of the board's sidecut? With posi-posi stance, how do you suggest I set things up? (I might think that I might adjust things a bit forward on BOTH front and back foot since I seem to have more trouble with stability on heelside turns and, technique aside, if my setup can be contributing to my trouble
Custom X is only 12.5mm set back, half an inch.... that's NOTHING! If you don't wanna leave it there, definitely move it back, not forwards. Sorry, can't answer the exact question you asked. Don't get to hung up on your gear! An inch vs. 1.5" will make not anyone a better carver. Too much focus on gear everywhere... Not trying to step on your toes at all!! Just encouraging you to not overthink and simply play with stuff.
Got the advice for my flagship to move the bindings back to make it steer more to the front and not so much with the back foot. But i was told that was because of the camber being more to the back of the board than the sidecut. Havent measured nor tried but im already guessing that its because you get more "centered on the sidecut" as you explain here?
Assuming a Jones flagship: It has a 2 cm setback from the specs, but the camber is significantly setback, just eyeballing from the diagrams on the jones site the rocker in the nose starts at the foremost inserts, but in the tail it starts approx 8 cm behind the last insert. Also just eyeballing it, but it looks like the insert packs are pretty much centered on the side cut.
So that advice would make you more centered on the camber, but actually setback on the side cut... What it does... well I'll let someone who's actually competent answer that! But I guess it would make it easier to reverse the camber and thus making the board ride as if it has less rocker in the nose than it has? Maybe?
It also seems like their reference stance has the back binding shifted one insert pack back compared to the front binding, but it's difficult to say on the relatively low res images I could find. And this would match with that they give a reference stance that is 2 cm wider than a centered stance, where you would probably move the back foot forward one insert pack. To me it seems like they print quite a bit of guidance on the topsheet for how to set up the bindings.
@SuperPhelix
You might be right, im just trying to figure this out. Actually i started measuring my board rn. The under foot width on ref stance differs about 5-6mm on my 58.
I ride with a bit smaller 54cm (53,3cm?) stance width and to get the same width under foot i have to stay on ref stance in the back and move my front binding back aprox 60mm.
Have been riding it with both bindings equally moved to center of stance width and that gets me aprox the same 5-6mm difference under foot as stance width.
As said, im just trying to figure this out and i probably have to try diffrent things out to see what i like, but its always good to have a couple diffrent starting points to try 🙂
Thx for input and feel free to comment more if u like since every thought helps 👍
Hmmm..... it's more addressing riding style. A front foot heavy rider may at times benefit from a more set back stance. Not 100% sure what the advice was supposed to mean.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel
I think u got it right, at times i can feel that i want to ride/steer more with my front foot. And also ive noticed that i wash out a bit at times in the back when i push a bit hard (wrong?) on my back foot.
That suggestion may work with the flagship because I imagine it has a stiffer, more supportive tail. Moving the rear foot onto a sweet spot back there may give you more leverage for ollies, carving and landings on an otherwise stiff tail combined with the apex of the camber. I have a Freeride board with a slightly stiffer tail, and until I moved my rear foot back, I wasn’t getting enough leverage on that camber, and I felt like the board was riding me instead of me riding the board.
Probably the best thing to do would be to experiment a lot, carry a screwdriver onto the hill and see what works.
One question Lars, what if the board has a 4x2 + 2 insert pack?
Well.... then you have a powder stance option all the way back, I guess! :-)
I think I’ll be ignoring those ones then 😂
16:55 "40 or 45 mm" you meant cm right? Because I assume that setback, like stance width, is also measured in cm and not mm? Personally I find it confusing that the measurements are mixed between cm and mm and usually no units are given!
PS. Waiting for my Shorty 164 and we're finally getting some snow!
No! 45mm!! Watch my "know your snowboard" video ;-) You shall understand! :-)
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Gonna have to rewatch it now clearly!
@@SuperPhelix just think about it.... 45cm is 1/3 of the whole board!! How can that be the setback??
The centre between both insert packs has been set back from the centre of the effective edge by 45mm. Makes sense?!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Hahahaha, I'm just as confused as you are how I could think that! My only excuse is that it's time to go to sleep now! I did not sanity check my own thinking even for a second :D
Rewatched the Know your board video so now I understand!
@@SuperPhelix hahaha, nice one!! 🙂
Hey Lars !
Super video as usual 👌
Perfect timing as I am currently playing a bit with my stance width 😅
I've a question (maybe I did not understand everything sorry). Currently riding a Jones Freecarver 6000s and a Jones Storm Wolf mainly both for carving.
For the Freecarver I switched from 500 to 460mm wide and felt very weird but I kinda like the super narrow stance so I would like to try 480mm by mouving juste one binding. Because it is a 40mm setback board I thought that I would move the front binding one notch toward the front to have 30mm setback and 480mm width. This board is 9mm tapered so you would do the opposite to prevent the tail to wash out isn't it ?
I have the same approach with my Storm Wolf (35mm setback, 8,5mm tapered and 540 to 520 stance width)
Thank you again for providing us such good content 👌 keep trenching 🤘
Can't say how the board will behave changing the setback, but go by what I said in the video as a starting point: find somewhat equal width under each foot at your desired stance width.
why do you think they make so many heavily tapered board if that's so counterintuitive?
Actually that very board was my first pow deck so the foundation of how a pow board should ride for me is heavily based on riding it at ref. stance.
I have no idea!! In pow this is fine! You're anyways a little in the backseat, hence that stance location makes for a nice surfy feel, while you don't have to be further back for float, because of the shape of the board. On hard snow it's just a bit 'funny'.
Having a true twin symmetrical board makes this real easy 😅
Lets see... dead center, done 😂
Hahahaha... Yup! 100% :-)
It seems weird to question your knowledge on this, but surely, on a tapered board with a radial side cut, it will naturally be narrower under the back foot?
Imagine the board as a parallelogram with contact points on each corner-the line between the rear contact points is shorter by the taper amount.
Therefore, each side is at an angle because the rear contact point will be half the taper amount closer to the centerline.
This means the width under the rear foot iwill be less when you are at the centre of the side-cut arc.
By moving your stance back, you might get a measurement where the front and rear foot widths match, but you could be some distance from the centre of the side cut.
Take a twin, mount the bindings centred, which is equal width under each foot. Now chop off the tail inwards of the contact points to make it tapered. Here's your tapered board with equal width under each foot.
You're confusing centre of sidecut with centre of effective edge!! I understand now what you mean!! But yeah, it is as I say in the video... Sorry! 🙂
Honestly I can’t wrap my brain around this either. On a really tapered board you’re going to be WAY back on the effective edge. Does that not get weird? How much does the board width under each foot really matter when you’re on edge? Could it be the distance (overhang) from the edge that makes it feel right? Or perhaps the centre flex that’s at the narrow part of the waist?
I should experiment more… Do you really equal up the underhang on a Korua? (Do you have any tail left?) 😮
@ you’re exactly correct!!! There’s no tail left!! Hence, the rider placement on those boards has the intention that the rider rides back foot heavy!! So if you don’t wanna ride like that, it’s the wrong board!! That’s kinda my message… and hardly anybody gets that, while I’ve heard people describe all the negative effects of it without them understanding what is going on. I’m not saying you should set it up like that. But doesn’t it make more sense to stand with both feet an equal distance away from the board’s narrowest spot?!?!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel it’s fun to change it up with that surfy feel, but really only in good conditions… Otherwise their standard construction can be a chattery mess. Does that get any better if you’re practically standing on the rear contact?
Good for fresh Korua owners
Oh man.......... I actually emailed Korua about this! At that point I had all of this figured out myself and was riding their boards pretty much all the way set back, which made them better FOR MY VERY OWN style of rinding (might not work for everyone!!). I asked them about tail wash and being in front of sidecut centre, and they said: "We know! Just set the bindings back!".... Hahahahahaha.....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I picked up a Korua Pin Tonic 172 (I'm a giant) this season and I've been trying figure out binding placement. This vid has been helpful as I'm definitely a front foot board driver.
I'm a little worried about moving my bindings too far back because as a tall person I leverage the tail of the board a lot in varied terrain to help with keeping myself upright. I've demoed other short tailed boards and feel like I'm going to loop out.
Thankfully the Pin Tonic has a stiff tail. But, I'm still worried I'll have that loop out feeling if I go too far back with the bindings.
I guess what I'm asking in a long winded way is as a non-surfer how can I feel more comfortable on a surf inspired snowboard shape but still drive the board with my front foot?
Realistically this board is amazeballs in pow! It's the all mountain riding that I'm trying to compensate my binding position for. Because it isn't pow all day long.
I guess I should add some rider info...
I'm a Lvl 3 CASI instructor (career instructor, 20+ years) and work and live in Whistler. I can snowboard nerd with the best of 'em!
@@MrRideEverything Quite honestly, I steer clear of boards that I want to ride on hard snow that have wild amounts of taper relative to effective edge length (20mm taper on a 150cm edge is not that much.... while on a 110cm edge is quite a bit!!). My Stranda Makrill is a 153 and has 20mm taper but 45mm setback right away from factory, because Stranda considered this and wasn't afraid to move the inserts that far back for looks purposes or whatever...
Nidecker Megalight 168 is a good one! 14mm taper on a 168.... awesome!! Stranda Shorty 164 is great too, and if you're an actual giant, get a Pipeliner 185!! For big guys it's a sick freeride board, not just groomers by any means.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Fair enough.
I am an actual giant. 6'6"/198cm, 250lbs/113kg.
I bought this board with my Japan trip in mind. I'm less than a week away from going!
Basically I was looking for a pow centric board that could do all mountain riding okay. The Pin Tonic has actually exceeded my expectations in regards to the all mountain riding and varied snow conditions.
As a longtime rider I have a quiver of boards to choose from, like yourself, depending on the day and work. But, most of my boards are freeride and directional twin leaning and can ride pow.
I have found that the rear foot driving of the Pin Tonic isn't bad. I do need to adjust some of my riding habits/techniques.
I was more curious about your thoughts as a front foot board driver and binding position on proper setback surf inspired snowboards.
If you're ever in Whistler hit me up. I think it'd be fun to go for some laps and snowboard nerd together!
cheat code: be 6'3, always use widest holes
Always? That's some big stances! :-)
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel always forward on the front hole, i have moved the rear up 2cm once or twice. not many factory board have extra holes. Even tried t-bolts to add my own forward holes once.
Kelley Slater, the world champ surfer, designed modern short boards with "mid-point-forward-design" and I too believe snowboarding happens on the front leg more than the rear. eg, ask sports massage professionals about regular footers having more stress in the left thigh, as Im told. Like right handed basketball players jumping off the left leg for max height, or a baseball batter or golfer swinging more with the left hand while the right hand guides with precision, aka you pull the bat or club more than you push it.
@ agreed on the front foot thing, for sure!!
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@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel today i was talking stance with a coworker, he's is 50ish, new and still ruddering in his 3rd season. I saw one turn from 40 yards. Stance is a gateway to success.
@@rideordietheyretring2tranx382 I hear ya. It’s a tool! And there’s skill.