Rebrand Fanboy! The Joy of paying more for some reason. Rebrands are a fact of life. Are they good?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2023
- Rebrand Fanboy! The Joy of paying more for some reason. Rebrands are a fact of life, but are they worth it? Maybe rebranding is the highest form of respect. Placing one' s own company name on someone else's product sure seems like flattery. So it should cost more, right?
"potentially exactly" is a key phrase
Not sure if this is still how things work, but once upon a time I worked for a molder that made overmolded handles for Snap-on among others. If I remember correctly we had a mix of molds that Snap-on owned and a few that some other company owned, but they had us work directly with Snap-On for delivery and QC. For Snap-on we had to use very specific grades of materials and their QC standards were a PITA to meet. Any parts that did not meet their spec came out of our pockets. For parts being sent to other companies that used the same mold, we'd swap out an insert to lose the branding, used less expensive materials, had looser QC requirements, and the cores often would not go through the same heat treating or prep. If you looked at the two parts side by side, they were identical to someone off the street, but to someone who uses tools regularly, you could see and feel how the Snap-on ones always looked better and felt better in the hand. Don't know if that's worth the premium, but there were differences
What I'm describing is more of a white label than a rebrand, but my point still stands I think since those two scenarios are often thought of interchangeably
Never forget, Snap On costs double because you pay for 2 of those tools, only the second one will be a "warranty replacement".
Almost every hand tool out there even cheap Chinese garbage has a lifetime warranty everyone had to follow suit when Craftsman started it 50 years ago so your point about paying for two tools makes no sense
Or if you take care of your tools, you are paying for some ham fisted guy to have his 5th warranty replacement 🤣
Exactly.. they're just paying for their warranty up front.. so it really isn't a good deal..
Snap on makes the best. Period. (Not powertools). If you have ever had o warranty you understand why the price is higher for their tools as well as quality.
@Nordman555 that simply isn't true... their tools are made as good as alot of other manufacturers.. their business model brainwashed you into believing that you're getting "the best " because you're paying 5x more than the next guy, but they're not 5x better...lol
Don't forget the classic craftsman tool lines. Craftsman never made a tool , it rebranded every tool. The benefit for us consumer was a great warrenty and fairly convenient shopping source, sears
I don’t believe what Vampliers is telling you Doc. When they launched, they were counting on ENGINEER not leaking significantly into the North American market - but we all know the word is out. What differentiates the two? ENGINEER was designed (styling, not functionality) with a dinosaur motif that is appealing to the Japanese and Korean marketplace. Vampliers know red is the most popular plier color here, and USA market costs for distribution and warranty are likely higher, so the gross margin requirement is also higher and therefore price. I’m an engineer in multiple categories, and I really, really doubt the “quality” FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). Of course for export and import purposes they have chosen to be two different firms, but it’s the other way around. Not quality or functionality driven, but to target the USA market and related challenges. I’m not knocking them, nor do I think the rebranding idea is wrong at all, but we must recognize that it really isn’t in Vampires’ interest to accede that basically the pliers are the same. If there’s really a significant difference beyond style and packaging, we need evidence!
Here’s some of what Vamplier told me. So yes, take it with a grain of salt. “Vampire Tools has more than 10 years exclusive partnership with Engineer to co-develop high quality, unique tools for the North American market. Vampire Tools products are built to a higher quality standard and come with extended warranty and US support, currently on top of our 4 years we are offering an additional 1 year.”
@@lastbesttool Interesting. Mostly consistent with my comments, but it would be interesting to know how the quality would be different. I’ve seen them and handled them, but perhaps I’ll buy a pair, review the information in detail (including translating the Japanese site and packaging), and see if there is an identifiable difference. In my sphere this question comes up a lot, and wasn’t a reaction to your own observation which are solid.
@@marcmckenzie5110I bought engineer brand ones for my need and they exceeded my expectations. Haven't tried vampliers but I did almost pay double for them before I found out about engineer
What about a video comparing Vamplires and Engineers.
@@RobertSiwik1968 Doc, I would help with any homework you needed for such a video.
Quality shall prevail, always! If there is no intention to trade later with rebranded tools, then they are more than good.
Malco goes belly up now what to do for warranty for example ... Snap-on rebrand is still warranted. Sometimes the tool truck carry better warranties then the original manufacturer. There's a place for all of it it depends on your personal opinion
Hello again, Doc
Thank you for another Great Video 👍 It's been too long since I watched your video's. But to try to answer your question. I think it depends on your situation. I look for quality, warranty process and how does that work. What works in my situation may not work for yours. It might cost more, but you get your problem solved quicker. And your back to work. Again thank you and Merry Christmas to you and your family 😊
Merry Christmas George. And thank you for being a faithful channel supporter.
The first Knipex tool I saw was on a Matco truck when I was looking for ez-out. I bought the Knipix Alligator pliers. Then a year later I noticed a refrigeration supply place carrying knipex Cobra pliers and diagonal cutters. I then check with matco and they were cheaper by $5 and change cheaper. Mind you this was before lowes Menards and dozens of websites selling knipex products. Same with Witte top torque nut drivers. So to me when looking for something other than ratchets and sockets it is well worth checking tool trucks , might get as good or better pricing. Oh another thing I found was hand cleaner with nut shells on Mac Tools cheaper than any place I could order from.
I just got the eagle grips. One of the nicest tools I have ever held in my hand. I’m a snap on fanboy though and so badly wish I could find a snap on branded one lol
Snap On bought the tooling when Malco ceased production of Eagle Grip locking pliers and has resumed production and has brought new needlenose locking pliers to market. Not cheap, but head and shoulders above the Irwin Chinese made ones in fit and finish including tooth hardness.
You make it seem like the trucks have a great warranty, they are not…. It’s always a fight… truck guy is there to sell you tools, he is not a service supplier, if you get a tool warrantied but don’t buy a new tool from him he’ll be pissed
What's really interesting to me is those "alligator style" Klein's use to be made in Germany obviously, but the pair I got earlier in the year when HD was clearancing some things out were labeled Made in the USA (was only marked on the packaging not on the tool)
Product of USA Finished by Klein Tools Mexico
Forged in USA of USA made steel but not actually “Made in USA” hence why they can’t put it on the pliers themselves
Those are not the same plier. Klein has the German one and also the crappy version they made in USA
Good points. Be careful with your hard earned dollars.
Sometimes it's just a matter that a brand need another tool in their lineup to make it complete, even Knipex rebrands and sells other products (such as screwdrivers, although they also bundle with other brands as well). For instance the Knipex 95 61 150 is just a rebranded Tsunoda/King TTC wc-150.
So for some low volume items I guess it does make sense that they would rebrand and sell other products that are up to their quality standards, rather than having to manufacture and sell something in low volumes.
People are brand fans, companies capitalise on that. It makes it difficult for logical consumers, but they are increasingly rare.
You know what's faster than processing a warranty claim or waiting until next week when the tool van drives by?
Paying 1/3 of the price to begin with, and buying replacement in store if and when you need it
It cost money to take off work, drive across town to go into the store, then drive back do that two or 3 times and you have surpassed the price of a quality professional tool
@@andrewscott8892 It costs more in productivity to go without the tool waiting a week for the tool van and/or having them order you a replacement. If you buy tool truck tools, then you're paying a premium for a guy to drive a big truck around for personalized service in the first place, in addition to covering warranty costs of other people who intentionally abuse their tools. If you're in a metro area that the tool truck will visit, you can likely get express delivery to arrive within a day or two which will be faster than waiting for the weekly/fortnightly/monthly tool truck visit
A lot of the Taiwanese stuff is biting at the heels of the tool truck brands these days. Project Farm made a great video comparing ratchets and the Gearwrench 90T ratchet was within 3% of failure load of the SnapOn but at 1/4 of the price. Notably, they were failing up around 300ft/lb on a 3/8" ratchet which is far beyond reasonable use for a 3/8 ratchet and into 1/2" breaker bar territory for someone who respects their tools:
th-cam.com/video/kay3z8qSEok/w-d-xo.html
@@andrewscott8892 irrelevant if it is the same tool with a different brand on it.
Tool trucks come to you, HF doesn't@@Skobeloff...
@@OTEP1234567891011 🙄
Same with Snap On uses Bahco to make there Adjustable Wrenches first in Sweden, now in Spain. Exact same, just more shiny
They liked the Bahco product so much they bought the company.
Not all the exact same, snap on offers them with flank drive which you can't get from bahco
@@andrewscott8892who cares, I rarely touch those nut rounders anymore since I bought a set of Knipex pliers wrenches! I only keep old-school adjustables as a backup in case the knipex won't fit in a tight space or a neighbour asks to borrow something 🤣
Snap On now makes the adjustable wrenches in U.S.A.
@@scod3908 nobody cares if you want them or not, it doesn't change the facts
I am personally a sucker for the Cornwell rebranded channellock stuff , with the atomic orange grips. But in Cornwells defense they have laser etched Corwell on them and there is no original branding accompanying.
People get on MATCO's case because they rebrand. But if you think about it, they often have great taste in what they do rebrand. And between the convenience of getting things warranted more easily off the truck and sometimes even the cosmetic/color changes over the plain jane original brand versions can be advantageous too.
No matco is a ripoff
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the Cabo double ended ratcheting wrenches
For me, alot of the time it's worthwhile to buy off the Matco guy, he's dependable and a great tool guy. You need something he will bring it to you, my boss one time actually needed something off the truck and my rep told him where he lived and how to get into the truck to get the tool. So...I'm OK with supporting him. And another thing is the payments. I know people say you shouldn't be paying on tools but then again it's nice to just make that payment and have the nice stuff you need and want, instead of going broke all at once. So in this case I'm OK with the rebranding ..
Don't forget that many tools from companies like WILDE, LANG, ULLMAN, Vaughn & Bushnell and of course the formentioned Mayhew are very widely rebranded and you may knowingly buy the rebrands simply because they're available at a local retail location and you already know / trust what you're buying.
There's just some companies who's tools are most widely available in stores as rebrands.
Amazon sells the exact ICON ratchet for 20.00 with some sockets included. Even the part number is identical. Of course it doesn't say ICON on the Amazon offering.
That’s fine and all but what if you need to warrantee it?
@@shawnwest3779
O, I was laughing at the situation. All the "ICON' is just as good gang. I personally do not shop there.
Rubbish I still buy the snap-on I don’t care for cheaper alternatives I can afford the snapon without a truck account
@@roninbushito
I should have nade it more clear. I was dogging the ICON brand. These people paying for HF best when it isn't nothing more than some Chinese junk.
I am 64 and a semi retired ASE certified mechanic. My American made box (s) are 95% filled with American made tools.
Amazon is possibly the worst place to buy tools, unless maybe they are your Junk yard parts pulling tools.
It's not always a rebrand, it may come from the same factory but that doesn't mean they are made of the same quality materials, same qc, same finish and hardening etc etc. To sell things for cheaper you have to hit a low price point in manufacturing
Snap-on just came out with two new sizes if the locking pliers. I bought both!
Cool. Do you have the part numbers handy? Thanks.
@@lastbesttool LP5LN and LP5WC
Thanks!
Snap-on appears to have bought the tooling (and the patent on the "Power Ring"). They now have US made locking pliers again, and even have long nose ones which I don't think was ever available under Malco.
Oh yeah and a US made adjustable wrench again.
That being said, rebranding does have its place. It allows companies to offer a fuller lineup without all the costs associated, and the OEM gets a slice of the pie too. A majority of what Wilde produces is used in rebrands, which as the OEM gets them spread nationwide, and allows other companies to offer a product with whatever quality Wilde has, most famously the pry bars at Wal-Mart.
Or a company could try to source from the best to bring together a collection under a common brand. Ideally Matco would be doing that for example. These guys here make great wrenches to get them, those guys there have fantastic needle nose but junky channellocks, so we'll go through them for the needle nose but go through someone else for the channellocks etc.
This, most definitely.
Matco has done a very good job at offering "to your door service" with a quality tool.
Great vid, my approach is different though. If I know there is a rebranded version I will always go for the original. I makes me feel great knowing I paid less for more. For instance I have wire strippers from Jokari they have been rebranded by a ton of companies including Knipex. And I have a lot of Bahco tools that have been rebranded by Snap On. I also have some Wisent screwdrivers from Bauhaus (German hardware store) they are rebranded Wera, but cheaper. And I don’t buy your wampliers story/tale - I have a pair of engineers scissors. The story makes no sense, it’s a Japanese company, there is no way they would send their best products to a foreign market. The Japanese are adamant about quality - no sense.
Here’s some of what Vamplier told me. So yes, take it with a grain of salt. “Vampire Tools has more than 10 years exclusive partnership with Engineer to co-develop high quality, unique tools for the North American market. Vampire Tools products are built to a higher quality standard and come with extended warranty and US support, currently on top of our 4 years we are offering an additional 1 year.”
@@lastbesttoolsome production company's dont want the hassle/risk that comes with entering a new market/country. But they might be willing to partner up when someone else takes the hassle and risk.
The quality can be better from a big brand like Matco, they can ask a significant higher price and invest part of that in better quality materials, QC, tolarence or finish. A lot of QC is destructive so testing 1 in a 1000 or 1 in 50 makes for a 2% difference in profit margin.
Even with the same materials en QC tests a looser tolerance can get the production from say 98% within spec to 99% within spec for the same batch of tools.
People often shout same factory, witch means nothing. The Devil is in the details of each step of the process.
@@lastbesttool tanks, would be interesting to hear what engineer says
@@Pinz314 makes sense, don’t think it’s the case with any of the brands I named though. They are all established well renowned in their own right. Except for Wisent they are the type of brand that is exclusively rebranded.
I only buy of the truck if I know it’s something I’m going use all the time and it might eventually break but if it’s something that I will barely use I’m definitely going to Home Depot or harbor freight
It's cheaper to make payments on $100 than to buy it outright at $50. And a warranty replacement can be as fast as next week when the truck rolls on by. Much faster than 3 day prime shipping. And with a 50k mechnics salary, your job is your credit.
Those Klein Alligator style water pump pliers are rebranded NWS
Rumor has it that snap on has fully bought out the eagle grip line from Malco.
Mac is owned by Stanley Black & Decker which also owns Proto and many other tool brands most Mac hand tools are just Proto tools that have the Mac name put on them some proto stuff is made overseas but the vast majority is made in the United States. Stanley Black & Deck are his own Mac for a while.
I personally buy Proto USA and Williams USA made tools cuz the first one is Stanley Black & Decker and Williams is owned by Snap-on so the USA Williams are basically snap-ons with Williams name on them
I picked up some Williams impact sockets to replace some lost Snap On sockets. My intention was to wait until I had a large enough order to avoid shipping from Snap On. I no longer have a dealer. The Williams sockets were almost identical to the Snap On sockets.
NWS makes those pliers for Klein. But now Klein has a US made version.
What about straight-up synergy? The best of *both* sides of the product. For example Knipex quality plus Matco van/warranty?
In the long run, you're still paying the overheads and wages of a guy driving around in a big loaded truck to provide personalized service
Exactly how I feel. 👍
If it's a tool that's likely to break or wear out I'll pay maybe a 50% premium for convenience. Same thing if it's something I need or something that's still relatively cheap
I actually like it more when a rebrand costs less, like when its underpriced to market the brand, or the brand is buying huge amounts of it and passes down the savings. my last case is fortis rebranded pferd 6 small files in case, 1/5 of the price.
I have never needed to warranty a tool ever i've had tools for over thirty years...
Also... If it has a tool truck branding on it more than likely, it's already a good tool..
The resale doesn't mean a whole lot.. you could probably resell it for the same price because it's a good tool...
Like Eaton differentials, red white and blue made in Taiwan/Sweden 😮
those new malco-snap-off pliers are 80 bucks per pair!!!!!
All (sort of) ring ratchet wrenches are made in Taiwan by 3-4 big fectories and end up as rebrands in the west. I believe the taiwaneese still got the patent.
I don't buy tools with the view to need warranties. I use them as intended. I don't flog them or use the wrong tool for the job at hand. I buy the highest quality I can afford. I won't buy Snapon as I feel that only true professionals need them
Let's be honest. It's so that when you talk about your tools or people see your tools, they go ..."ooooooo,aahhuh"..
It's because you want to be special even if it's for yourself...
And there's nothing wrong with that🤔
Will you talk about park tools? Apparently from you park tool is snap on. I know you know. You’re a skier and mountain biker like me
I mean, I'm not going to be mad about it if I see a rebrand but can get the same quality tool for cheaper direct from the maker. I'm just going to buy it from the maker, me personally. At least the rebrand fanboys get a decent tool either way.
Rather not lay down Jacksons or Benjamins for some extra paint or laser etching, but I'm also not fashion conscious either.
matco is 100% re-branded tools! they make no tools at all