HERETIC !!!! BLASPHEMER !!!! How dare you dis the Gent Saw... I love mine, it's always on the table and I use it for all kinds of little things and it surprisingly mows through most woods nicely....
Thanks James! I learned a lot of new things via this video. I recently purchased a 2-saw package from Lee Valley. A Veritas dovetail saw and a Veritas cross-cut saw. I just started learning handsaw techniques and having so much fun with it!
Some of my favorites are hearing you talk abt tools :] Also, the weeb in me has to complain. Why, theres only some 50 sounds in japanese! You should be fine! There's certainly no complexities that would make it difficult to get right!!!
I have several back saws. Old ones with brass backs, new ones with reworked handles. But my absolute go to sash saw that I reach for all the time is a $5 no name, steel backed junk store find. After I got all the rust and grime off of it and sharpened it, it cuts like a dream. I really wanted to hate this saw but, I love it so much. Personality wins out over beauty in the long run every time (In life and saws.)
Good one James, very enjoyable video. 👍🏻 I have heard good things about Blue Spruce Toolworks’ saws. Maybe you can consider visiting them for a later video?
Great video, as always. I did Rex's suggested mods to the S&J tenon saw, and I honestly really like the end result. It cuts surprisingly well (especially when compared to how it cut when I first got it). It feels good in my hand, and is an absolute joy to use. I also really liked the price! (Although, having said all that, I still do about 70% of my saw-work with Japanese saws.)
Hey, James, here's my "comment down below"! Thank you for another great video AND for all you do! BTW, I need some info on a new Stanley block plane that won't cut. Can I contact you? (I have your email, I just *hate* to write to folks I don't know.) Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
I'm just in the middle of making a sash saw. Sadly I couldn't find a folded back near me so I went with slotted. Do you have much experience with those that are just glued in place without screws and plugs etc? Is there much difference?
I saw another comment about miter saws. A couple decades ago I purchased a fancy Master Mechanic miter saw box, the kind that allows one to set it for any angle. It did not come with a saw so I purchased a MM “miter saw.” I noticed there was a Diston (sp?) on the next peg that looked identical except the price which was much more. So is a “miter saw” belong in another type of back saw category, or is it its own category? I think I own a number of vintage hand tools now. Except for those I inherited from my Dad, the rest I purchased new.
I bought three or four used saws for the purpose of learning to sharpen saws. If I succeed, then I end up with some nice saws. If I fail, then I still had good practice. I used the price of a Lee Valley saw as a gauge line on price. I never went over 2/3 the price of a comparable Lee Valley saw.
Is that Tenon Saw from the Mitre Saw? If so I can vouch for the fact you need to have muscles to use it, there is ZERO need to "force" the saw into the cut, it does it all on it's own. You need to hold it off the work piece not push it in.
No the miter saw is its own weird thing. I thought about talking about it but decided not to. It is much much larger than the tenon saw. And the miter saw really can't be used effectively outside of the miter box.
Thanks a bunch for all the tips, James! 😊 I have an excellent back saw here... I don't even know what kind, but it's soooo good that I'm going to cut it to make other tools, like scrapers and scratch stocks. 🤨 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Well i have got few my first was Spear& Jackson which Rex did video on TH-cam made a new handle for it because the new good once are very expensive and the old ones in good condition sometimes more so i am finding my equilibrium by by buying old one that needs some love to give to and you have top quality saw with history behind and history to be made. My oldest is Thomas Flinn from the 1920s (Sheffield) and i love the balance of it...and because you don't like the gent's saw i have decided to buy a new one Thomas Flinn also from Sheffield 😊
I find the Veritas tool modern aesthetic is quite hit and miss. Their joinery and block planes are an absolute hit, their bench planes are 50/50, their saws are a hard pass from me. Years ago, when I was trying out dovetail saws, I had my eye on the Pax. I tried it at a woodworking show, hated it, and got the Lie Nielsen instead. It pains me to say the best Sheffield style saws aren't made in Sheffield, but in New England.
I saw, Esaw , sitting on a seesaw, well nearly. LOL. I love saws. Restoring them is so much fun and affordable even though I am not any good at that yet. Crafting a fitted handle is so cool. I must have a go at that on a better blade some day. A good strong back is so important for walking or aping around.
I made the decision to give western saws a go after a good couple of years using Japanese pull saws: they take some getting used to, but I've really been loving them (picked up a few of the Veritas saws.) They cut way quicker and I find I only really need to line up the first, maybe second strokes to get a nice, straight full length cut. It's butter after that. For myself, at least, the longer it takes to saw, the more chance I'll introduce curves and gaps into my joinery. That being said, I still use my ryoba all the time :)
I got an old vintage backsaw that was restored from a shop in the UK. Got it for only 10 bucks. The shipping to the USA cost more than the saw. I really like it, but I find for most of my handsaw work I just grab my Irwin Japanese style pull saws.
Another great video. I ended up with that Spear and Jackson (Lynx, Pax, Crown equivalent). I'll be messing with the handle soon. Rex's template will help. And Paul Sellers' video (as mentioned below) was great, too. Maybe someday I'll go so far as to create a whole handle like you did with the live oak.
So much value here! I learned by having saws that dont fit great haha. Fortunately i have a friend learning to make them so i have gotten to help customize my own prototype!
So far I only have a dovetail saw but I love it and find that I´m actually more comfortabel with western saws than japanese saws. So again a great video just at the right moment. Really was considering getting the Veritas tenon saw but now I´m back on track to buying an old one. Thanks a lot for the video and keep up the great work. Your the best (on youtube)
Coincidentally Shawn Skelton who makes saws in the UK did a talk for Bench Talk 101 yesterday. He had a lot of good info on the way he builds saws and the reasoning behind it. (TH-cam video will be up soon I think)
I forgot that was on , will give it a watch over the weekend , I've got 8 of Shane's saws and you won't get better I've used most and these blow everything out the water .
The next step up in size for backsaws is the miter, or miter box, saw. I really like my restored Harvey Peace carcase/sash saw, mostly because when I restored it I customized it for my hand. My Rob Cosman dovetail saw is my go to saw for dovetails, though.
commenting below. . . . . also have a question, can you do a video explaining the difference from a chisel and a Slick please. because im not sure at what point a chisel is called a slick. many thanks and keep up the great work.
that is a gray sliding scale. usually the thing is that the slick is longer and most of the time at least 2" wide. if it is narrower then that and still long it might be referred to as a framing chisel. but with all of these there is no hard line to the naming. some fall right in the middle and could be eather depending on who you talk to.
Here you go th-cam.com/video/cyuf6ZT8KpE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZefnHGkAULKsdCai. I also have a whole pile of videos on sharpening saws. But I'm thinking about doing another series of fun on them here soon.
I have a gents saw, good blade and cuts well, but…. That handle is sub par. I have considered pulling the handle off and remarking it as a normal saw. Do ya think that would be worth it?
I recently did that with an older Craftsman dovetail saw. Downloaded the handle pattern from Blackburn tools, and ordered some sawnuts from the site as well. It was to thick of a plate to be a good dovetail saw, but it works good as a small carcass saw. Resharpened to a crosscut pattern. A very good learning experience.
I may do it, I got some cherry I plan on using for plane handles, so I might as well make it, the gent saw is on the smaller size, but still would be better then what I got
Another authoritative video on an entire family of tools. TY James. Question, when undertaking to redo a saw handle from scratch what are the recommended angles for the handles. I know a panel saw handle would need a different angle than a Carcase saw, but how would one even measure the angle?
If you are just starting out I would get Spear and Jackson twelve inch back saw and contrary to what James says a Crown ten inch dovetail. These will get you started for little money with saws that are pretty much ready to work.Will do most of your beginner small projects. Then a couple hand saws. James is the only one I know who is considering cutting dovetails in the dark. Using to cut with gents saw will teach you hand and eye control, due to the higher learning curve. Just get a wide piece of pine and start practicing cutting to the line.
I really like my current saws that I have a fortune in, but now I am paranoid about kinking. I have all of Cosman’s saws and the backs are cut and pinned. I haven’t had it happening yet but now after watching your video I feel like the next time I pick up one of my backsaws it’s going to kink. What would you say someone would be doing to cause your saw to kink?
No problem with sound for me now. The fit of a handsaw is very important. Other things matter too. Though you point out that an antique handsaw isn't necessarily well-patterned or built, I'm restoring my great-great-grandfather's saws & planes, which I will absolutely use even if they don't fit perfectly.
What I would like is for a maufacturer to sell the saw plate back and fixings as a kit and leave it to the woodworker to make their own personal custom handle.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Not folded backs, Two Guys in a Garage used to have nice folded backs but they quit business. And good luck getting anything out of Blackburn, have had a blade on order since March and its just crickets.
The biggest backsaw I have is a miter saw. The blade is 24 inches long, and is used in a "miter box," one of the type with a rotating frame that can be set to a specific angle for the miter cut, and the back of the saw slides within. The saw is really heavy, and I would not want to use it outside the frame on the miter box. The others I have are almost all older, some are late 19th C, and one is Civil War era. You identified all the things I think are important, though I would mention that you can find older saws with really nice handles, but really crappy glades, heavy, badly balanced.
@@Apillicus Yep. Mine weighs quite a lot. Of course, it has to, because it's the saw's weight that does most of the work. I just push and pull it. Takes a bit of time to file it.
I have A Disston 30 inch that came with my 460 box (Both marked sweetheart) that I will use at the bench on occasion for fun.Good for dado grooves in wide panels.
Once you have established shallow top cut drop handle of saw down and follow line until angle set then level saw and cut to depth. When you angle down there is less plate in kerf and you are able to guide saw. Once kerf and angle are established it is easy to saw to depth. @@patseevers262
That Veritas it uglier than sin on a Friday night.That dovetail saw is no picnic either...it looks like the upper horn tip broke off, and was glued back on upside down, with that goofy upward sweep. They must really work well, cause you can`t like the way either of them look...another awesome video though.
Paul Sellers' video on reshaping a Spear and Jackson panel saw handle goes for their back saws too. Easy and you've a nice saw at the end of the exercise.
HERETIC !!!! BLASPHEMER !!!! How dare you dis the Gent Saw... I love mine, it's always on the table and I use it for all kinds of little things and it surprisingly mows through most woods nicely....
What wood should be used vs woods should you stay away from.
What finish should be used vs finish to stay away from.
That all depends. They all have their pros and cons. And they all have places where they are great and places where they are not.
No sound
Sometimes that happens when the video is first uploaded. it should be working now.
That's the first time I've ran into that issue but it's working now. As always great video thanks
I saw what you’ve done here.
I back this sentiment
Thanks James! I learned a lot of new things via this video.
I recently purchased a 2-saw package from Lee Valley. A Veritas dovetail saw and a Veritas cross-cut saw.
I just started learning handsaw techniques and having so much fun with it!
Comment down below!
Thank you for this video! You are always so informative and no nonsense. That’s what I appreciates about you.
Some of my favorites are hearing you talk abt tools :]
Also, the weeb in me has to complain. Why, theres only some 50 sounds in japanese! You should be fine! There's certainly no complexities that would make it difficult to get right!!!
There's actually people that post comments down below? Is this below or above that?
Thanks for the great information, I took notes. And comment down below, because I'm one of those people.
I have several back saws. Old ones with brass backs, new ones with reworked handles. But my absolute go to sash saw that I reach for all the time is a $5 no name, steel backed junk store find. After I got all the rust and grime off of it and sharpened it, it cuts like a dream. I really wanted to hate this saw but, I love it so much. Personality wins out over beauty in the long run every time (In life and saws.)
Good video. Would’ve like to hear your thoughts on straight vs tapered. It looked like you had a tapered saw at the end.
I would break my back to get one of those
it’s 👌 I got your back with a 👍 and a comment down below
Comment down below 😅. Wish I could sponsor you 😢
Thank you ve🎉ry much Sir.🎉
I have trouble sharpening a saw just can't get it right
comment below - 😊- nice explanation of saws
Comment down below. Did I do it right?
Good one James, very enjoyable video. 👍🏻
I have heard good things about Blue Spruce Toolworks’ saws. Maybe you can consider visiting them for a later video?
Yes. They started that when they brought on Jared green. He does amazing work. I've got a couple of his saws before he went to Blue spruce.
Great video, as always. I did Rex's suggested mods to the S&J tenon saw, and I honestly really like the end result. It cuts surprisingly well (especially when compared to how it cut when I first got it). It feels good in my hand, and is an absolute joy to use. I also really liked the price! (Although, having said all that, I still do about 70% of my saw-work with Japanese saws.)
Great video!! Thanks!!
Comment down below, down below.
Sawdust fills the air,
Wood shavings fly everywhere,
Crafting with great care.
Hey, James, here's my "comment down below"!
Thank you for another great video AND for all you do!
BTW, I need some info on a new Stanley block plane that won't cut.
Can I contact you? (I have your email, I just *hate* to write to folks I don't know.)
Have a GREAT day, Neighbor!
Sure. Send me a question anytime.
I’m backing you.
saw subject if you ask me
I'm just in the middle of making a sash saw. Sadly I couldn't find a folded back near me so I went with slotted. Do you have much experience with those that are just glued in place without screws and plugs etc? Is there much difference?
For general function gluing it in places perfectly fine. You just have to be a little more careful with it.
I saw another comment about miter saws. A couple decades ago I purchased a fancy Master Mechanic miter saw box, the kind that allows one to set it for any angle. It did not come with a saw so I purchased a MM “miter saw.” I noticed there was a Diston (sp?) on the next peg that looked identical except the price which was much more. So is a “miter saw” belong in another type of back saw category, or is it its own category?
I think I own a number of vintage hand tools now. Except for those I inherited from my Dad, the rest I purchased new.
I general I would put it in it's own category as it would only be used in a box. I thought of mentioning it but decided not to.
I bought three or four used saws for the purpose of learning to sharpen saws. If I succeed, then I end up with some nice saws. If I fail, then I still had good practice. I used the price of a Lee Valley saw as a gauge line on price. I never went over 2/3 the price of a comparable Lee Valley saw.
Comment down below.
Comment down below.
Comment down below!
I saw this video 😅
I would like to know more about how to shape a saw handle. I have 3 Lynx saws. I am totally not experienced enough yet.
I have videos on reshaping then and making them from scratch. I linked them in the comments if you want to see them.
Is that Tenon Saw from the Mitre Saw? If so I can vouch for the fact you need to have muscles to use it, there is ZERO need to "force" the saw into the cut, it does it all on it's own. You need to hold it off the work piece not push it in.
No the miter saw is its own weird thing. I thought about talking about it but decided not to. It is much much larger than the tenon saw. And the miter saw really can't be used effectively outside of the miter box.
Comment....
Down
Great video
Thanks a bunch for all the tips, James! 😊
I have an excellent back saw here... I don't even know what kind, but it's soooo good that I'm going to cut it to make other tools, like scrapers and scratch stocks. 🤨
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Down Below!
A back lol
Thanks
Well i have got few my first was Spear& Jackson which Rex did video on TH-cam made a new handle for it because the new good once are very expensive and the old ones in good condition sometimes more so i am finding my equilibrium by by buying old one that needs some love to give to and you have top quality saw with history behind and history to be made. My oldest is Thomas Flinn from the 1920s (Sheffield) and i love the balance of it...and because you don't like the gent's saw i have decided to buy a new one Thomas Flinn also from Sheffield 😊
I find the Veritas tool modern aesthetic is quite hit and miss. Their joinery and block planes are an absolute hit, their bench planes are 50/50, their saws are a hard pass from me.
Years ago, when I was trying out dovetail saws, I had my eye on the Pax. I tried it at a woodworking show, hated it, and got the Lie Nielsen instead. It pains me to say the best Sheffield style saws aren't made in Sheffield, but in New England.
Perhaps it's just me James but I'm not getting any sound
No sound for me either
I had same issue then reloaded and it works now
sometimes that happens when the video is first uploaded.
I've bought a couple of small-maker, "premium" saws--mainly because they were pretty.
commemt
I just want to say what an excellent and helpful video this is! You cleared up a lot things for me concerning backsaws. So thank you, James!
I've been wanting a very nice saw like the rob cosman dovetail saw... just that darned budget thing I have to deal with haha
Comment down below. ✌
Thanks for demystifying the terminology.
I saw, Esaw , sitting on a seesaw, well nearly. LOL. I love saws. Restoring them is so much fun and affordable even though I am not any good at that yet. Crafting a fitted handle is so cool. I must have a go at that on a better blade some day. A good strong back is so important for walking or aping around.
I'm still somewhat new to woodworking, and all I've used si far are relatively cheap (
I made the decision to give western saws a go after a good couple of years using Japanese pull saws: they take some getting used to, but I've really been loving them (picked up a few of the Veritas saws.) They cut way quicker and I find I only really need to line up the first, maybe second strokes to get a nice, straight full length cut. It's butter after that. For myself, at least, the longer it takes to saw, the more chance I'll introduce curves and gaps into my joinery. That being said, I still use my ryoba all the time :)
I got an old vintage backsaw that was restored from a shop in the UK. Got it for only 10 bucks. The shipping to the USA cost more than the saw. I really like it, but I find for most of my handsaw work I just grab my Irwin Japanese style pull saws.
Got an old Bishop adjustable for $35, absolutely love it.
This is the video I needed! I have a veritas dovetail, and am trying to get some other backsaws. Thanks!
Another great video. I ended up with that Spear and Jackson (Lynx, Pax, Crown equivalent). I'll be messing with the handle soon. Rex's template will help. And Paul Sellers' video (as mentioned below) was great, too. Maybe someday I'll go so far as to create a whole handle like you did with the live oak.
Over time sash saws have become my favorite saws. Have both rip and crosscut in sixteen inch.
So much value here! I learned by having saws that dont fit great haha. Fortunately i have a friend learning to make them so i have gotten to help customize my own prototype!
So far I only have a dovetail saw but I love it and find that I´m actually more comfortabel with western saws than japanese saws. So again a great video just at the right moment. Really was considering getting the Veritas tenon saw but now I´m back on track to buying an old one. Thanks a lot for the video and keep up the great work. Your the best (on youtube)
I almost always use my Veritas dovetail saw or my Pax gents saw - sometimes my band saw and coping saw 😂
I tend to like Lynx saws. Have a couple of them
Another informative video and very entertaining. Thank you.
Great video thanks for always putting informative and in-depth perspectives out there
Very informative. Thank you.
Coincidentally Shawn Skelton who makes saws in the UK did a talk for Bench Talk 101 yesterday. He had a lot of good info on the way he builds saws and the reasoning behind it. (TH-cam video will be up soon I think)
I forgot that was on , will give it a watch over the weekend , I've got 8 of Shane's saws and you won't get better I've used most and these blow everything out the water .
Shannon Rogers is a total badass! I'd love to hear you two talk about hand tools together! Y'know, a quick little 40 episode podcast or something ;)
we had talked about a hand tool podcast. maybe some day.
The next step up in size for backsaws is the miter, or miter box, saw. I really like my restored Harvey Peace carcase/sash saw, mostly because when I restored it I customized it for my hand. My Rob Cosman dovetail saw is my go to saw for dovetails, though.
I thought about including the miter saw. But it's in its own weird class. Lol
commenting below. . . . . also have a question, can you do a video explaining the difference from a chisel and a Slick please. because im not sure at what point a chisel is called a slick. many thanks and keep up the great work.
that is a gray sliding scale. usually the thing is that the slick is longer and most of the time at least 2" wide. if it is narrower then that and still long it might be referred to as a framing chisel. but with all of these there is no hard line to the naming. some fall right in the middle and could be eather depending on who you talk to.
Nice job James. I'd like to see a video on straightening a saw blade (hammering, etc), and another on the more technical aspects of saw sharpening.
Here you go th-cam.com/video/cyuf6ZT8KpE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZefnHGkAULKsdCai. I also have a whole pile of videos on sharpening saws. But I'm thinking about doing another series of fun on them here soon.
I have a gents saw, good blade and cuts well, but…. That handle is sub par. I have considered pulling the handle off and remarking it as a normal saw. Do ya think that would be worth it?
I have seen a few people do that.
I recently did that with an older Craftsman dovetail saw. Downloaded the handle pattern from Blackburn tools, and ordered some sawnuts from the site as well. It was to thick of a plate to be a good dovetail saw, but it works good as a small carcass saw. Resharpened to a crosscut pattern. A very good learning experience.
I may do it, I got some cherry I plan on using for plane handles, so I might as well make it, the gent saw is on the smaller size, but still would be better then what I got
Another authoritative video on an entire family of tools. TY James. Question, when undertaking to redo a saw handle from scratch what are the recommended angles for the handles. I know a panel saw handle would need a different angle than a Carcase saw, but how would one even measure the angle?
I would go look at the templates that Blackburn tool works offers on their site. They have tons of great information
nice folded saw back! :D
As always, great video. 👍
Appreciate this video!
My head is spinning from all the choices.🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃🙂
If you are just starting out I would get Spear and Jackson twelve inch back saw and contrary to what James says a Crown ten inch dovetail. These will get you started for little money with saws that are pretty much ready to work.Will do most of your beginner small projects. Then a couple hand saws. James is the only one I know who is considering cutting dovetails in the dark. Using to cut with gents saw will teach you hand and eye control, due to the higher learning curve. Just get a wide piece of pine and start practicing cutting to the line.
Nice video. I am glad I now know not to look for an old one!
Thanks James!! Cheers
Thanks for sharing.
I really like my current saws that I have a fortune in, but now I am paranoid about kinking. I have all of Cosman’s saws and the backs are cut and pinned. I haven’t had it happening yet but now after watching your video I feel like the next time I pick up one of my backsaws it’s going to kink. What would you say someone would be doing to cause your saw to kink?
Usually it's the arm being out of alignment or the board pinching. Most the time it's just going too fast and pushing too hard.
I personally would never buy a back saw that wasn't folded back.
There's no sound james! We can't hear you talk
sometimes that happens when the video is first uploaded.
Thanks James
No problem with sound for me now. The fit of a handsaw is very important. Other things matter too. Though you point out that an antique handsaw isn't necessarily well-patterned or built, I'm restoring my great-great-grandfather's saws & planes, which I will absolutely use even if they don't fit perfectly.
The antiques are great saws most of the time but when it comes to back saws they often cost as much as or more then the new ones.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Good point: Inheritance is free!
What I would like is for a maufacturer to sell the saw plate back and fixings as a kit and leave it to the woodworker to make their own personal custom handle.
there are a couple company's that do that. Blackburn Tool works is top of the list.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Not folded backs, Two Guys in a Garage used to have nice folded backs but they quit business. And good luck getting anything out of Blackburn, have had a blade on order since March and its just crickets.
The biggest backsaw I have is a miter saw. The blade is 24 inches long, and is used in a "miter box," one of the type with a rotating frame that can be set to a specific angle for the miter cut, and the back of the saw slides within. The saw is really heavy, and I would not want to use it outside the frame on the miter box. The others I have are almost all older, some are late 19th C, and one is Civil War era. You identified all the things I think are important, though I would mention that you can find older saws with really nice handles, but really crappy glades, heavy, badly balanced.
I have a miller falls set that is wonderful, but I don't think I would use the saw without the miter set up lol
@@Apillicus Yep. Mine weighs quite a lot. Of course, it has to, because it's the saw's weight that does most of the work. I just push and pull it. Takes a bit of time to file it.
I have A Disston 30 inch that came with my 460 box (Both marked sweetheart) that I will use at the bench on occasion for fun.Good for dado grooves in wide panels.
Looking for my first non gent style saw, lots of good advice here. Thanks
I use gent or conventional dovetail saws interchangeably. Some great woodworkers use gent saws, Frank Strazza comes to mind foremost.
@@jimcarter4929 I seem to struggle tying to hold any kind of consistent angle with the round handle.
Once you have established shallow top cut drop handle of saw down and follow line until angle set then level saw and cut to depth. When you angle down there is less plate in kerf and you are able to guide saw. Once kerf and angle are established it is easy to saw to depth. @@patseevers262
That Veritas it uglier than sin on a Friday night.That dovetail saw is no picnic either...it looks like the upper horn tip broke off, and was glued back on upside down, with that goofy upward sweep. They must really work well, cause you can`t like the way either of them look...another awesome video though.
Paul Sellers' video on reshaping a Spear and Jackson panel saw handle goes for their back saws too. Easy and you've a nice saw at the end of the exercise.