Peter Thiel: "Diversity Myth" 30 Years Later
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Nearly 30 years after publishing "The Diversity Myth," Peter Thiel sits down with Mike Solana to unpack what the book got right and wrong. Thiel argues that social distractions have stunted scientific progress, slowed economic growth and weakened our geopolitical standing. How did anti-Western rhetoric popularized on college campuses in the 90s morph into the culture wars that divide our country today? How can we move past this pessimistic, hyper-political moment and continue building the future?
"The Diversity Myth":
www.amazon.com/Diversity-Myth...
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
0:15 - Part One: A retrospective
14:03 - Part Two: Science
28:39 - Part Three: Economics
39:27 - Part Four: Religion
54:11 - Part Five: Politics - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I saw the beginnings of this insanity in the 90s in college. Sex, Gender, Race Studies majors began to grow.
Backlash to neoliberalism
The inclusion of race studies is a result of the 1965 Hart-Celler Immigration Act that began to flood this country with non white people, thus displacing the white population who will soon be on just another minority. You can thank the Republicans for this by pushing for equality which goes hand in hand with diversity.
I did Electrical and Electronic engineering in the early 2000s and was an engineer for many years. The problem with EEE is that in order to make advancements you have to comply with ALOT of pre-existing standards, inevitably you end up becoming an engineer who makes small changes to some existing tech within a big corporation. I ended up giving it up and started my own software company and I find it much for fulfilling, I am able to be creative and more impactful changes at a faster rate.
What does your software do?
I always love hearing from Thiel but I don't think any interview has ever gotten to the core of who he is, including this one. It's still all surface level stuff. I need to know what Thiel, if he was made emperor/dictator would do/demand of society. I want to know what his no-holds-barred vision is. I hope one day he just unleashes. Give it to us raw.
@@AI_effect We never experience objective reality. Everything is filtered through ego. Religions are operating systems.
@@AI_effectobjective facts are at the mercy of the narrative they're spun into. Looking at religion provides a framework for how these facts are spun into narrative. He did train as a lawyer after all
He thinks giving women the right to vote was a mistake.
he is a fake guru. like tai lopez. spoke about twitter not doing anything for the world, yet runs a shady body shop using chart js in the form of palantir.
I would also like that but it is probably too dangerous for him to really say what he believes. The media has attacked him pretty hard over the past few years for getting involved in politics. Most of the oligarchs and influential people are bloodthirsty progressives who could really come after him, so he has to be careful.
30 years ahead of its time. True contrarian, independent thinker. Brilliance
Peter’s brilliance shines through once again. This interview is a gift to thinkers everywhere. Much gratitude, Founders Fund!
Peter Thiel is a modern day Nazi Darwinist. Completely out of touch with reality because he lives among the elite that don't give af about you or I. Honestly they prefer we die off so they can replace us with machines. Do not idolize these people.
Peter Thiel is the rights' version of George Soros...Except Soros is a much better human being.
@@rotfogel I just get this feeling listening to him speak that if this were 1940s Germany, he would be a top ranking Nazi or a SS concentration camp prison guard. 😂
How did I miss Founders Funds TH-cam Channel 🤯 Of course Thiel should be here.🎉
Thank you Mike and Peter for sharing your amazing brains~
The subtle not-so-subtle James Turrell artwork flex 🔥
Brilliant guy here. Been following him for many years now. Chess champions seem to see into the future
Thank you for this conversation! 👍 Very educational
Thought provoking and relevant interview. Thank you.
😍👑 Babe wake up!!! New Peter Thiel Interview dropped.
They are all the same though
Typical cringe comment
Great interview. Please do more.
As a bona fide senior citizen, I can remember the TV show "Walt Disney Presents" and the "Tomorrowland" segment. It was so full of optimism for our future. I look at the first two decades of the 21st century and I realize that Walt had it all wrong. Socially, we are regressing at an astounding rate and the pace of the decline is increasing. Walt, what happened?
Marxism.
Why do you think Walt was an embittered alcoholic?
@@drmodestoesq Hmm, is that just another Wikipedia WOKE hit job on someone? Certainly, his vision has been ruined by the WOKE religion, but he didn’t live ling enough to watch it happen.
don't ask Walt, his answer will get you booted off youtube 😂
What HAPPENED IS the Religious Right became more and more agitated as Y2K approached and began preaching about THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST, The RAPTURE, and other APOCALYPTIC tales so as to replace our hopes for a brighter future with fears about being "left behind" and prophecies about the end times. It's one reason we have the surge in Christian Nationalism today. We tossed out science for superstition and silliness.
Incredible!
While Pete’s book was indeed foretelling, at this point he could no doubt benefit from catching up with James Lindsay…particularly his work on Gramsci, Marcuse and The Frankfurt School.
J-O-Os?
I would add the thinking of Augusto Del Noce (you can find in YT lectures about him from Carlo Lancellotti) ..
@@Hollow_Cause_Dont_Matterno, that's not what Lindsay talks about at all
Catch up?
A great talk, nice to see Peter comfortable speaking with Mike to express his ideas clearly.
I felt like my CS degree wasn't prestigious enough among my friends, they all considered engineering to be the hardest and top degree. But I think it may have been because where I grew up had only defense contractors and biomedical engineering. I guess peter thought the same thing in the 1990s, CS was seen as this non-rigorous backwater of a major. But now the CS department is the crown jewel of the college
Great get Mike!
Technical question -- where are the mics? Sound is excellent yet the mics are invisible.
awesome interview
Great talk
Peter I am begging you please do more interviews I will pay $$
Will you pay him hundreds of millions of dollars? Pete's net worth is around 6 billion these days. Good luck paying him any amount of money he would notice.
I mean, this is incredible. Incredible questions. Incredible answers. Practical philosophy. Deeply inspiring. Thank you both for this incredible interview. Game changer.
@@IvanNedostalHow is it a psychosis?
Enjoyed this thought-provoking conversation. Grateful he (still) has the courage to speak his mind on key controversial issues - if only to spark honest debate and further study. Too many brilliant people being silenced by "woke" bots and cancel culture and that may prove tragic for all of us.
Peter- people like you, myself and many others have a mind geared toward focus on problems (that we wish to seek solutions for). Some things just don’t deserve our attention- let’s stay solution-oriented.
Your old roughneckin taxi driver in Aspen/friend
-Eric
28:30 This is incredible to hear. I studied at an elite college and can confirm what he's saying. Everybody's got to lie about how much they love X and everyone gets burned out. Most people are depressed at those places.
Excellent interview! Fantastic questions. Thiel is clearly an intellectual giant. The interviewer did a fantastic job to help open his thought processes to the rest of us. Outstanding!
Evening Mr. Thiel
Thanks for this 🙏
Peter Thiel makes you think about things that were hiding in plain sight.
thiel is a right wing apartheid south "african" donor to the trumpet coup fash types beloved of the KKK. Look in the mirror and put your thinking cap on🤣🤯
@@AI_effect Right? This is an awful change to the algorithm.
I am generally a fan of Peter over many years, listened to dozens of his interviews and had the pleasure of meeting him 2 times.
What has started to disappoint me over the years is the complete lack of interviewers who:
1) ask hard questions
2) in good faith
It seems that your typical Thiel interview is some fan boy or employee of his, just gently nudging him towards a list of conversation topics.
I feel this does not do justice to either Peter or public dialogue over hard topics.
He goes over the same topics constantly which can get annoying. It would be nice if an interviewer listened to his previous interviews and asked different questions and challenged him a little more, he's the most interesting of our oligarchs by far so it's fascinating to hear what he has to say.
It looks like Peter only takes interviews with people in awe of him, willing to ask a few question's he's selected.
It also means we don't see him being asked about anything new or interesting, just the things he's 100% prepared to talk about.
Well, he’s dragging in the young folks…
Mind blowing. Will have my work cut out for me in terms of research from this.
Great sound system
Most underrated channel on TH-cam. Would love to see the cadence of video drops increase!
Just subscribed.
5:27 - diversity should mean more than looks
8:00 - thesis of The DM
10:12 - 4 DEI distractions
13:14 - history of political correctness
27:31 - sending kids to elite colleges
28:56 - Starbucks union wants to put lgbtq banners up (Walmart)
31:51 - Georgist economic analysis
34:42 - how to grow an economy
36:33 - politics at work
When did that become the Founders Fund logo?
Do you have this in a podcast format somewhere?
Get TH-cam premium
22:03 its obvious: it transmits knowledge. When it works, it transmits useful knowledge. When its not working it doesnt. The odd time, people working together will create new and important knowledge at universities.
Peter Thiel is someone who can get this world to make sense. Him and Gilder are guys who need a much bigger audience. Great interview Mike. A complete eye opener and makes me thirst to hear him speak on anything. I hope Palantir can rival the mess Gates has made for us. I hope he realizes how important he really is.
I am sure it came up during his work with the CIA.
Almost can't focus with the white B&W 801s and McIntosh setup, and Turrell projection. Lovely space.
Thanks
Brilliance delivered with a stunning monotonous that forces the listener to parse the ideas. Steal his ideas and logic but not the speaking style.
I don't share all of Thiel's conclusions here, but I respect how he gets to most of them.
good job on this mike
14 subscribers and verified, I've seen an account like this before. Did you do some kind of hack to get this or what
We avoid madness by intuitively and automatically assuming a "self", even though we cannot define it scientifically or otherwise. To deprive the universe of its own "self" leads many to madness. Not all, but many.
fascinating
The greatest delusion about diversity is that it is created by blending. No, diversity was created by centuries of relative separation. What we are doing when we're blending is we are harvesting its fruits while racing towards monotony. There is only so much diversity left before we have global monoculture. If we cherish diversity, we need to not only reap its fruits, but also seed and cultivate it, which means to maintain a healthy degree of separation. Not everything has to be connected.
Can we get one of these with delian?
Peter Thiel: A voice of reason during an age of voices of absurdity. Let's just hope someone in positions of influence are listening to him and not just relegating his thoughts to a non nuanced political point of view.
Peter Theil is a very smart malignant narcissist and libertarian sociopath. His agenda is to prop up government policy that undermines the working class. His catalyst to do this is by blaming immigrants, the poor, black people, diversity etc. His funding of Trump was a culture ware on the poor including most of Trumps own white working class support base
Absolutely not. We've always had absurd shit. Peter, as much as I like the guy, is not the voice of sanity.
@@slouischarlesYT and THIS comment is why we need sober dialogue. Can people be this tone-deaf?
@@PaddySlattery is that a dig at me? Why am I tone deaf? Because I don't think Peter Thiel is the voice of reason we need in our lives?
Peter Thiel is always great. Lock the podcast. But please upload a version without those heavy cuts. They are in congruent.
"Ideas have consequences". Or as Ayn Rand put it, to paraphrase here, the philosophy of a small number of intellectuals can eventually drive an entire nation.
How does one try to get founder's funded?
science fiction tells the tail of expectations even if it can't help us measure actual innovation/ scientific advancement.
I was planning to go in to mechanical engineering, but my school closed down its engineering school, so I had to do CS instead. I was super sad at the time that my dream of mechanical engineering was ruined. but it turned out that CS was the correct major and mech E would have been a terrible decision. Now I have a Bentley flying spur. I am happy I got the CS degree instead of mech E. but I wish I could have know this back then, it would have saved me tons of stress!
More of Peter!!
Not just “The Diversity Myth” AND the college comedy “P.C.U.” predicts the future. A an arch and racaus and ribald documentary “How PCU Predicted the Future” to prove the point was posted on TH-cam some 8 years ago. But it was censored and removed from here last year or so
Nice discussion between Peter Theil and Ryan Reynolds
😂
Technological advances travel through the internet to capture an audience. It’s subject to the same trend-based timeframe as as an instagram influencer’s latest costumed reincarnation. The biggest economic driver today appears the re-tossing of word salad, or adding a new word ingredient, to dress a kale as a carrot…So it isn’t that emperor isn’t wearing clothes, it’s that his wardrobe is astonishingly large.
“I’ve been waiting for you...”
Near the end of this talk, the “have we reached the limit of both science and religion questions/answers, I have always asked: “Will it not be that (ultimately) science brings us to God.” IOW’s, one day we reach “it” and then God opens the door we knocked on and He says “I’ve been waiting for you?”
A lot of good points, but saying that "Computer Science" is not a science since you can work without PhD is missing the point.
i) CS is super sharing science, all results and resources are available using the infrastructure build on top of the CS
ii) Mark Zuckemerg are drop outs, and are not scientist, they just business people. Even Brin and Page are not... even though they have one algorithm developed.
iii) all those companies are using for FREE algorithms and theory developed from academics 20-30y ago. ML and Larger Language Models exists 20/30y+ old (or even more). I dont know in Chemistry and Pharmacy if there is such sharing culture.
Beautiful improvement as a speaker, Peter! Lots to learn from your growth here :)
Double that.😌👏
That stereo system is amazing. B&W combined with McIntosh is perfect.
Where to purchase?
31:00 what's the story about Walmart turning into a green company in response to strikes? Is there any evidence?
58:38 they have ji ji pong thought 💭 I’ll take wholeness over that anyway… I have so many questions but as a person who invested heavily in mandarin immersion and grew up studying Japanese Buddhism I’m
Confused
Listen to this guy.
So, was it a warning book or a cook book?
For more information on woke ideology and DEI, James Lindsay and New Discourses has the most information by far.
It's all smokescreen for neoliberalism
Why is founders fund using AdSense? Hurting for cash?
Re: China, Ray Dalio might really have a very, very different perspective than does Peter.
1:05:40 powerful
15:55 slacking progress
16:44 Comp sci not being a science
18:00 going wrong in science
20:30 computer science as an outlier
Peter Thiel interview after a looong time :)
Peter Thiel look evil but he is the real hero and Elon Musk is the real villain.
@@3nityC They're both evil villains
👏👏👏
Like the subtle HiFi flex in the background...
Very nuanced discussion on the state of modernity, gentlemen. Thank you for your service
My dad was a corporate executive and HATED compliance with “EEOC standards.” Meritocracy supersedes all else to any rational person- painstakingly obvious notions are a waste of thought & breath
Thank you so much the Funders Fund for sharing this chat with Peter!
i wonder if he mentioned the idea about the matrix being a no go in a previous interview and I forgot about it, or whether I came to that conclusion on my own 😂
My take of this conversation is the importance of going back or forward with God and his word. At the end, that’s all that matters.
Incredibly vibrant work; reminiscent of a book that was vibrant and full of life. "Rising From Within: Unlocking Your Innate Power to Conquer Adversity" by Vincent Starling
❤❤❤
I would add to that the "progress myth". But actually, it doesn't even rise to the level of myth, which always has a salient point to make. It's just a mentality... a side effect.
With China, it is not about semiconductor policy. It's about strategic metals. China controls about 80% of all of the critical strategic metal refining capability, particularly what are known as "rare earth" metals. If they exercise their massive power and advantage, our policy on semiconductors and related electronics becomes meaningless. This is fact. And it happened while our government sat back and watched and while our industrial sector facilitated it. Peter knows this.
Semiconductors, ya dig? Forget those "rare earth" minerals - they're like flip phones to the iPhone that's semiconductors.
@@slumdogemillionaire6648 Hmm, you need to do some reading.
reading what ? 4chan??@@roberthumphreys7977
Wow..what an imterview. I could have listened to a 2 hour talk on theils views on religion. The most interesting part.
Every dog has its day solid as a rock P.T
The growth of the internet boom temporarily delayed the onset of our decay
Wokness is a feature of large corporations, if you can't see it then you would best be served by interrogating any ideas you have surrounding and including the notion of a public/private distinction.
It's a form of fascism. It demands adherence to the group ideology. I think the best way to describe it would be "left-wing fascism." It breeds in a corporate setting because corporate life, despite purporting to exalt individualism, really does the opposite. True individualism is only accepted at the top of the food chain. Moreover, woke is thriving currently as our culture has become obsessed with everything superficial, when we desperately need conversations of deep meaning. Even worse, anything of true depth and nuance is intentionally ignored by authorities and the media.
Title: "30 years later"
Interview: "2008"
🤔
30 years since he published the book. 2008 is when he and I first met.
I have tremendous respect for Peter Thiel, and agree with him on his stance on identity politics. However, his claim about 30 mins in that landlords in urban cities are the beneficiaries of this and somehow contribute to this reeks of ignorance. He clearly doesn't have any rentals he manages. Landlords get the short end of the stick here, often paying $20k+ for evictions in these cities, and jump through hoops to please these very same anti-discrimination agencies. The reason rents are so expensive in these cities isn't because of landlords, but because of asinine policies preventing new construction that would drive cost down. Your rent may seem excessive, but have you looked at the mortgage in these very same cities. Home prices always outpace rents, and rental margins are paper-thin in large cities. If you want to blame someone, blame the politicians who created these cesspools under the guise of "protecting the little guy".
Ya benefits is the tax man and the guy selling oil . 😂
It’s also possible that when Theil talks about “landlords” that it’s more along the lines of the people have owned properties for a long time (generational or big cooperations) and not people just trying to make a small business in it “a la slumlord” style or something because he’s use to the high end stuff.
I mean, the whole rental thing especially in big cities is a complicated topic because they’re a lot of dynamics at play with it (kicking out honest people for heavy investors to own everything for one example) and isn’t always as simple as the thing in the movie of some broke person knocking on the door telling someone to pay their rent (that is DEFINITELY one aspect of it, so I’m not trying to act like they don’t exist and don’t have an important story to tell).
Peter Thiel markets his form of globalism very eloquently....rethink all of what he said and why he said it. Who profits from his vision?
Delving deeply into evolutionary biology is hard.
Evolution in practice gets exponentially more complex at each new level of complexity, and each new level is founded upon and sustained by new levels of cooperation, and maintaining cooperation requires expanding ecosystems of cheat detection and mitigation systems (for me most of religious thought is some sort of early approximation to the complexity and ethical conditions required, that was a reasonable approximation in the time before the depths of evolutionary theory and practice became available).
So the overly simplistic notion that many have of evolution (that it is all about competition), is not simple wrong, it is almost the inverse of what actually happens.
It is beyond any remaining shadow of reasonable doubt that the evolution of complexity is, to a good first order approximation, founded upon cooperation and sustained by continued cooperation, which is sustained at every level by evolving ecosystems of cheat detection and mitigation systems, which at higher levels include ethics and morality.
Evolution necessarily biases us to prefer simple certainty over complex uncertainty.
The idea of hard knowing, as in 100% certainty, is dead. But the idea of reasonable confidence in context, is very much alive and well. And having such a "contextually useful approximation" approach to knowledge demands of us that if we are faced with reliable evidence that contradicts some cherished notion, that we are prepared to re-evaluate it. Yet on a day to day basis, we act based upon those things we are confident about. The classical notion of "Truth" prevents such advancement, because if you have "Truth", why would you consider anything that contradicts it as possibly reliable - it would be unreliable by definition. With such a probabilistic approach, we get to act with confidence, and with respect, and we get to update our ideas as evidence becomes available.
So our current economic system, which is founded upon the supremacy of competition, is actually antithetical to the long term survival of complexity. It must self destruct, unless it is reformed to be fundamentally cooperative, beneath the competitive layer. Universal income would be such a cooperative foundation.
The economic system also needs to be able to work within planetary boundaries. Creating money with an embedded growth obligation (interest) is not compatible with planetary boundaries.
I am all for freedom, for me it is part of the very definition of life, as systems capable of searching the space of possible systems for the survivable. The idea of search is by definition going beyond the known, into the unknown, and the unknown unknown, in search of solutions to known problems. But the "survivable" aspect of that definition also demands that every level of freedom is accompanied by appropriate levels of responsibility, to avoid those vectors in the highly dimensional vector-space of existence, which lead to non-existence.
And of course there is a competitive aspect to sorting between "solutions" to find the best "fit" to any particular context, and often such things are highly context specific, and do not generalise well. And there is always a need for a cooperative base, that respects any diversity that is not an actual and unreasonable threat, at all levels (individually and collectively). Nothing even remotely simple in that.
The other major issue with our current economic system, is that economic efficiency produces systemic fragility. Robustness demands reasonable degrees of redundancy and diversity. Diversity, in this sense, is an embodiment of search, in a very real sense.
Individual agents need reasonable degrees of freedom, and they also need to have responsibility.
Systems need to promote freedom, and prevent cheating - all levels.
This is complex - seriously complex.
Finally an intellectual not bleeding neo-liberalism.
Thiel always rocking the running shoes, the guy is always ready for a quick 5 km.
📍39:27
We need to protect this guy
👍🏾
had so many things. have to rewatch it
I feel this guy had a chip in his shoulder about his time in college, and he's still trying to get back at whoever or whatever annoyed him in his college experience? And how the heck are unions a corporate construct? He doesn't realize that unionized employees also have an interest in the company's success? A closer relationship between unions and management is needed, not an outright dismissal of the utility of unions in a company's success and social responsibility. Thiel seems more like a brainwashed, vengeful, propagndist, hearing his choice of topis in thsi interview.
I don't think its true that people don't move (therefore making SF more expensive) because they think elsewhere is too conservative. This is for a few reasons:
* Most people aren't oppressed, or don't believe they would be oppressed in a red state (median person is cishet, isn't affected by abortion legislation)
* Cities in red states are blue because cities are liberal places
* There are lots of cities around that are affordable, but people don't move there from SF. Big cities like Chicago, Philidelphia or Boston are cheaper than SF/NY. Not to mention smaller cities in blue states (e.g Burlington, Alburquerque).
I think what's actually true is what Henry George would think, which is that land has a vertical supply, so landlords are constantly maximising the rent they can capture without people just moving away. Rent in San Francisco simply reflects the opportunities (mainly economic, some cultural) minus drawbacks (crime, safety). Housing/land markets are simply proxies for how good a city is.
I studied in Texas, moved to the valley. It’s 10 times cheaper to live in Texas and I could afford a mansion there….I won’t move there despite most of my friends being there. It’s mostly because it’s conservative and the people incharge are more concerned about ppl having sex in their bedrooms than crazy ppl running with guns and hair triggers.
I left the CA for a conference and got assaulted by a “police” officer. If you ain’t live in black skin stfu.
Exactly. To insinuate that people go live in big cities because they are LGBTQ and that leads to high rents is laughable. How do you think that are able to afford such high rents? Because they make more money in the cities. Ironically this sounds like a woke view. People live in cities for the open culture which in turn induces innovation. Specifically for SF the rents are high because of the local housing laws that doesn't allow building more houses.