5 Black Historical Films | What they Got RIGHT and WRONG | By an *Actual* Historian
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- Join Abby Cox and I as we review some of the most popular black historical dramas!
Go watch @Abby Cox 's video about the Costumes in Belle, 12 Years a Slave, Harriet, Beloved, and The Color Purple here: • 5 Historical Films on ...
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Images Used: Bayly, J, and Harrison And Co. A new map of the West Indies. [London Harrison & Co, 1783] Map. www.loc.gov/it....
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You can go check out Abby’s video at th-cam.com/video/LQLSlsXCVWo/w-d-xo.html ! She focuses in on the clothing in each of the films.
Hi Cheyney, Abby's video is still marked private...?
Looks like it's been re-uploaded with a new URL...?
New Link is here: th-cam.com/video/NCUKUp0YjmM/w-d-xo.html ❤️ (Who has two thumbs and feels like a dumbdumb? me. 😂)
@@AbbyCox Yay! Thoroughly enjoyed that!
Here from Abby. Loved this quote:
"We need to humanize people so that we can recognize that we can BE those people." Wise words!
"We need to humanize people (who do bad things) so that we can recognize that we can be those people."
THIS EXACTLY
Yeah, making the bad guys be (as my husband calls it) "mustache-twirling evil" sort of defeats the story.
I heard her say that, and immediately scroll down to see if it's already posted. lol
This is something that we need to apply today. Creating caricatures of our political opponents isn't helping us come together as Americans.
This is an issue that I’ve found is extremely common today in regard to rapists especially. “They’re monsters”, “they’re not real men”, and it contributes to this idea that rapists are that evil stranger in the alley with a knife- and while they do exist, we know that the majority of people who are raped, are raped by those close to them. Fathers, brothers, mothers, spouses, friends.
And by monsterising these people, we’re able to push them away, to disconnect them from the human race. And so those who think they are good people, think they can’t be a rapist- they’re not a monster! But what about that time they coerced their teen girlfriend into sex? Or that time they had sex with someone who was too drunk to consent? They don’t regard that as rape, because rape is something only monsters do.
This is probably the most common way we see this play out today, but it happens with every awful thing throughout history- Nazi officers, enslavers, you name it. If we dehumanise them, we belittle the things they did. We make it something so far removed from us as people, that we don’t have to worry about it.
And that’s a HUGE problem. Not just because it means we can’t recognise the problem when we’ve pushed it so far away from ourselves, but because by pushing it away, we make it easier for it to continue happening.
There was a huge outcry by some after the movie "Downfall" because "You can't portray Hitler as a human being!!!!" As German literature critic and Warsaw Ghetto survivor Marcel Reich-Ranicki retortet "As what, then, should he be portrayed? An elephant?"
In 1928, Hitler was a beer hall braggart ex-con whose party colleagues were just contesting their first Reichstag elections, fishing for excuses as to why they entered the very parliament the members of which they denounced as ineffective, corrupt prattlers. Five years later, they had total control of the country.
Coming from the perspective of a white person, but a Jewish one, I can really agree with the concept of needing to humanise people who committed atrocities. People confuse humanise with "make sympathetic", which I absolutely disagree with. But we've had this consequence of this almost comical caricatures of fascism and white supremacy from the Nazi era meaning that people can't identify fascism nowadays. You say "this guy is a Nazi" and people refuse to recognise it because it doesn't align with the mustache-twirling villains in the movies. But white supremacists are normal people and they are integrated into communities without detection. They also know what sends red flags to the normal population because we've seen it in films and change their language and presentation accordingly. When Richard Spencer became widely known, he was talked about with these almost confused compliments due to his style and manner.
I'm also jewish and a scholar of jewish history and I definitely agree. Calling people monsters or animals is not only inaccurate or unproductive, it actually in some way absolves ppl of responsibility for the actual choices they made as fully aware human people with emotions, families, etc. Hannah Arendt really was onto something with the banality of evil. As present politics around the globe indicate, most people are comfortable with fascism as long as it doesn't abuse them-and sometimes even when it does. Moral nuance and risk are far harder to sloganize or settle into.
@@helyns1416 this is really dorky but I screenshotted your reply to show to my girlfriend because I felt so proud that a scholar of Jewish history agreed with me. I had to quit school really young and I got into history in my own terms as an adult, actually a lot because of TH-cam, but it means I can feel quite insecure about my knowledge and understanding so this just made me feel really affirmed.
I'm going to look up Hannah Arendt, although the term "banality of evil" rings a bell already for some reason.
@@AM-kr4pv I'm only a baby scholar bc I'm still in school (health stuff has made it slower for me finish my degree so I sympathize on that level) but I definitely can say that your ideas are based in decently respected theory, though of course people disagree bc that's how ppl work. I think with stuff like this it's also sticky bc it's not just about historical interpretation but moral judgement/responsibility which is even more subjective. Either way, I'm glad to provide validation bc one of my main aspirations is to make history/humanities more accessible! Academia has such a toxic culture and history is not only politically important but personally/culturally/spiritually meaningful and often fun. I've learned as much from library books, TH-cam videos, and museums as I have from university classes. Academia can teach you common methodology and structure and it has its uses but I feel like truly great thinkers know how to break the rules and redefine them, not just perpetuate what they've been taught. Anyways, yay nerds :)
IMO from a Jewish perspective Jojo Rabbit did a great job of showing how people can be convinced to believe that genocide and other atrocities are right by showing how Jojo continued to adhere to Nazi ideology even after he found out that his mother was hiding a Jewish girl.
Hannah Arendt called it "banality of evil" when she wrote about Eichmann being quite ordinary. She later got flack for focusing too much on who he was and not what he did, but I think her point was quite clear: seemingly regular people can do terrible shit for no other ideological reason than it being their job, it being the law, and that people need to realize anyone is capable. It's how you get an entire world to be complicit in slavery.
Girl, WHEN will you begin DIRECTING, producing and consulting on the NEXT GENERATION of historical BLACK HISTORY MOVIES??? I wanna work with you!
And maybe take control in costume and production design (art direction).
Totally agree
Producing is very expensive. So I doubt that part will be anytime soon.
On the topic of the underground railroad, Canadian history has such a WEIRD relationship with slavery and freedom. There were enslaved people in Canada for over 200 years, until slavery was banned in the British colonies, and then there was 30ish years between that and the abolition of slavery in the US. And yet Canadian history has constructed this bizarre self-story as being the destination of runaway enslaved people from the US, it's like the ultimate white savior complex. Most people in Canada aren't even aware that there WAS slavery in Canada (I didn't learn about it until university) and have loads of denial should anyone try to bring proof. It's awful.
(To anyone reading: Afua Cooper is one of the leading scholars on the subject, and she's absolutely brilliant!)
I went to college at Niagara University in New York. On our campus there is a memorial to the slaves who were hidden by the priests there(it was originally a catholic monastery). Because of the fugitive slave laws and professional slave catchers snatching people on the street regardless of their previous enslavement history, the people fleeing would hid in the tunnels between buildings until it was safe to cross the Rainbow Bridge into Canada. What is rarely spoken about are the people who came back from Canada or actually went to Europe because, quite frankly Canada wasn’t a welcoming place for black Americans.
Even in the North, People did not want blacks around. The wonderful abolitionists were trying to send all black people “back to Africa”. A place none of these people have ever seen and wouldn’t be able to communicate with their families there even if they could find them. That also doesn’t preclude these poor individuals who could have been kidnapped AGAIN by slavers since just because America abolished it, there was still a slave trade active until well into the 20th century.
I read a book (I can't remember the name of it), but an enslaved woman gets granted amnesty for helping the British during the Revolutionary War, and was able to go live in Canada, only to get there and realize that racism and slavery was just as rampant....she even trusted a family who stole her child from her
Thank you for this comment. Every time Americans discuss or mention our history of slavery on sm there's always *at least* one smug white Canadian lying through their teeth about how Canada was a racial utopia that sheltered and cared for enslaved black people who escaped from America 🙄
Not exactly the same, but it also took me years to realize that our history class here in Germany is still not really teaching truthfully, despite many of us priding in the fact that so much of our education centers around the WW1 and WW2 and our nazi history. Not only did I only realize during my adolescence that many people involved with tha nazi politics were never really punished or some even stayed in powerful positions long after the end of the war. But we also almost didn’t learn about Germany’s involvement in the colonial times at all. Germany may not have had a big role there but Germany was absolutely inhumane during that short time Germany held colonies. I pretty much only learned about the colonies of the big time players and as a sidenote “Yeah Germany also had a few colonies but nothing big” and it weirds me the f*ck out that was all we learned.
Wow! I'm nearly 40 and have never heard that! I always just thought Canada didn't go along with slavery at all. Thanks for pointing that out.
YAYAYAY! I am so happy we were able to collaborate again! I love you and admire you so much! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Loved ur video.
@AbbyCox The video is private now... I'm unable to see it even though I got a notification and followed, as well as not being able to see it though Cheney's link.... What happened?
Yeah, it seems to be gone. Hope it gets back up, looking forward to seeing it.
Varius Kidd it’s live now! I had a weird technical screw up so it had to be reuploaded 🤦🏻♀️
@@AbbyCox Thanks! Good to know. :D
I like the movie Belle because it handles a lot of the identity issues I have as a mixed girl. And I know that I wouldn't have been her but I grew up in a largely white area surrounded by people wealthier than me, in a white family. It was really therapeutic to see that kind of identity depicted in film, it's not common.
And it begs the question regarding whether her story is relevant to the black experience. I think yes. The black or mixed experience isnt defined by one color or class. It's important for all stories to be told.
Book Recommendation- The Problem of Slavery in Christian America. This vlogger is right- a true Christian would not have held slaves. There's no such thing as a "good, Christian, slave owner."
Also The Cross and the Lynching Tree
Yeah, it's interesting that Solomon was so complimentary about that guy. Maybe it was the effect of looking back after encountering the worse slave owner. But you'd think that if he was such a decent guy he should have at least listened to the explanation about Solomon being kidnapped and sent him home. And, as was pointed out...he still wouldn't be the best dude (Christian or otherwise) ever, seeing as there were people at the time who made the decision to free all their slaves, to never own them in the first place even if they could have, or to work actively against the institution.
I had a history teacher in high school point this out and he said that was q big reason as to why black people were so dehumanized. I guess since it was wrong to own another person they found a loophole by saying enslaved people weren't people to justify it.
You can not be a real Christian and hate anyone
+++
"We need to humanize people so that we realize you and I could be those people." YES! A thousand times YES!
When I saw the male characters in The Color Purple, I didn't think it was "Black men are weak." I plugged in my own (white) family anecdotes that taught me "Men didn't handle the 30's well."
This! It really is a story of a woman growing into her own person and standing up for herself within her own community.
Okay 🤨 that's true.
But it was also about a father who gives his daughter to a men to settle a deal.
She deal with an abusive, cheating, sick men who was 20,30 years older than her
As a white autistic person it was really interesting hearing about Beloved. Disabled people are very commonly murdered by their parents or caretakers as a form of "mercy killing," with those murderers operating under the view that disabled life is worth less than a non-disabled life. And these people are often given a lot of sympathy by the mainstream media , and their victims viewed as subhuman burdens.
But like, that's a totally different situation from what Margaret Garner went through. She knew the horrors of slavery, she knew exactly what her daughter would have to go through because she had gone through it herself. And as someone who is heavily involved in autistic and disability rights activism, it's incredibly jarring to hear about this case where filicide was so understandable and sympathetic a reaction.
Idk, it just made me feel a lot of complicated feelings to hear about it.
Wow, Bees McBee!! Love your heart which came through in your comments. Hugs to you and thank you SO MUCH for sharing your unique perspective and adding to this important conversation!! This is real talk that NEEDS to be happening!!! 👊❤❤❤ Thanks for being you, and doing what you do!! The world NEEDS more of you!!
This is a really good perspective to think about (as another disabled adult), thank you for posting it
I personally wouldn’t say it’s any different some parents toke the lives of their disabled childern because they also wanted them to be so called free and might of not wanted them to end up in a horrible institution full of abuse an experiments for the rest of there lives. I understand why some people do what they do while not considering mercy/honor killings as understandable in the sense of ya let’s do it. One should Definitely understand/study’s the motives of those who do odd or horrific things under horrific circumstance to see what some humans on the deep end of despair might react even though we wouldn’t do something’s ourself . These stories have to be told
"We have to humanize those people so that we can recognize that we can be those people"
Thank you so much for saying it like this. It's always easy to pretend we would have been 'the good ones' (the saviors, the members of the resistance in WWII, the white member of the Underground Train, etc) when today we are looking at evil being done and doing nothing.
Such a powerful statement!
When I think of slavery (which isn’t often), I think of the unbearable pain of not knowing where my children are and if they are safe. I connect with the quote in Black Panther, “Bury me in the ocean with my ancestors who jumped from ships, ‘cause they knew death was better than bondage” 😓
I couldn’t watch “12 Years a Slave” more than once, because it’s so visceral and made you feel what they were going through, as much as a movie is capable of doing. However, I really believe everyone should watch it once, it is a genius movie because it doesn’t sugar coat or romanticize the period in any way to make people feel more “comfortable”... you shouldn’t feel comfortable watching these horrible things Solomon and other enslaved people went through.
I think it's the same thing with "Schindler's List". I watch it once, sobbed and cried the whole three hours of the film, so much that I couldn't even breathe at the end. Yet, I remember it vividly in my mind and I know I won't watch it many times (perhaps once more or so).
@@leonorheitor6203 Schindler’s List has been on my list for years but I have never been able to bring myself to watch it. I know I need to. It will be my next movie to fall into this category.
@@Stardust_7273 I watched it like two years ago near Christmas time which made the experience even worse. It's a beautifully tragical film that tells the stories of millions of people who survived and thee millions who were murdered in horrible conditions. You really need to watch it!🌼
@@leonorheitor6203 I definitely will. I think we owe it to certain groups to watch these movies. I know movies take some liberty for entertainment purposes but there is this rare group like Schindler’s List and 12 Years a Slave that go beyond that, and those movies in particular are important to watch
Cumberbatch is gifted with the iguana-like level of warmth and charm needed to play history's most heartless blue-blooded assholes.
isn't he remotely part of the British aristocracy?
@@MoonOffSpringC si
Cumberbatch is the descendant of slave owners.
@@Intellectualrigor Most white people from wealthier white families are. You aren’t responsible for the actions of your ancestors as long as you recognize how said actions were wrong and work to do better yourself.
@@nyangatagaming903, he hasn't done that, though. He's actually tried to scoff at it.
I’m not a Black American but I can quote The Color Purple backwards and forward. I fell in love with it as a young Latina recently arrived stateside. I cannot express how much I love it.
About the Underground Railroad, your statement about how people were on their own, that it wasn’t as organized as people think, it brought to mind how immigrants coming from our Southern neighbors have no path to follow when they try to reach this side of the US. Humans are so mean to their own. I wish we would learn.
I came from Abby’s channel but I’m staying. ❤️
I also have very visceral reactions to certain areas of historical dramas. I'm First Nations, I was taught so many things about my demographic the media that I hated being one of the people. Then I learned what the government did to put us in those categories decided it was a fight to the death and I had to do it for EVERY person who is so deemed a minority and marginalized for it.
YES! Like you said, we need to start humanizing "these caricatures of bad guys" because then people will realize they can be the "bad guy"
I think Solomon's affection for William Ford could be a type of Stockholm Syndrome.
Probably after being a slave to epps,ford would have been viewed through rose tinted memories
@@noifurze6397 probably just relief, also. He was born free but he'd probably heard horror stories, so I can only imagine the kinds of images running through his head after he was kidnapped. Sometimes "not as bad as he could have been" can be confused with "good".
When we had American history, esp. slavery and POC history in English studies at school, we first read Beloved. I was about 19 at that time and it shook me so deeply, but it was right. History (both German and international) in Germany - in Western Germany in the 1980s and 1990s - was taught very in your face, these are the facts, deal with it. Perhaps that should be a future approach for the US as well.
And you are so right, we need to humanize the bad ppl ... so we can relate to them and see the potential that we can be them.
I'm 25 years old, born and raised in the U.S. and had never heard of Beloved and I'm disappointed by that fact.
I read Beloved when I was 12. It shook me.
@@alexarias5717 You should read it .. It was published in 1987 IIRC. We had this in our A level exam pre-course for American Studies (Our English learning courses at that time had both British and US American history parts), but then this was Germany in the 1980s our educational system isn't as good anymore as it once was..
That'll never be able to happen unfortunately, way too many conservative people, and sensitive parents who want to pretend these things never existed and want them to fade into history...the most students hear about slavery is that
1:they were taken from africa against their will.
2:they were whipped as punishment
3:they ate scraps and worked in fields
The students/kids may never learn truly how bad it was until they're older(Collage age:19,20,21)
@@alexarias5717 there is also a movie
I love that abby was more of a bystander and threw in some veery valid points. it presets this dialogue as it should happen, the person most effected by the topic is able to freely speak and the editing further forced that sentiment. Your friendship is beautiful! I just found your channel today and am really enjoying your content> great work on this ladies.
"This man was all the butthole." XD I had to go back and rewatch that to make sure I heard that right.
I liked your reviews of the films! The film "Harriet" didn't seem to get as much press as other historical films have had in the past. While it did get some interview attention, to me it paled in comparison to other films of the subject (like "12 Years a Slave" for example - which got a lot of press raving about it). My other "gripe" about "Harriet" was that it took so freaking long to have a movie made about her, you're almost willing to forgive the film's faults for its mere existence and telling of Harriet Tubman's story. I think there ought to be more biopic films (not documentaries) about black women and their achievements. For all the achievements made regarding racism in Hollywood (SLOWLY, some change has come in the number of films made), there is still sexism in the industry and unfortunately, black women are at the crossroads of racism and sexism by being black women.
See the Abby Cox video... The costumes in "Harriet" were not nominated for an Oscar versus "Little Women" winning it which is ironically representative of how things stand in my opinion.
Had the lead actor kept her mouth shut it would have been seen more. They pick people to represent us that can’t understand us
Harriet is great in that it’s about the people around her that shaped her life. Harriet, though never clearly stated, had seizures (epilepsy) due to a head injury (her owner threw a sizable rock at her head when she was a child. She survived but started having seizures; she called them “prophecies.”) This was made worse the more violent her master became. The movie Harriet shows how it takes a literal village to raise a disabled person and how hard it is for a disabled person to part with them.
Harriet didn’t just LEAVE. She CAME BACK...and then became a thorn in her master’s and the Confederate’s backside. I have epilepsy and there’s no way I could do what Harriet did as I literally puke my guts out and become completely immobile when I have my seizures.
She. Had. GUTS.
I remember crying when I read Beloved in my Undergrad Literary Theory course. Such a powerful story, and Toni Morrison's dedication page at the beginning hit it right on the head and just made her book so much more intense. I have a lot of feelings for Beloved...
I was 12 when I first read Beloved.
Hi! I'm from England and when I was in secondary school (age 11-16) they made us watch the whole of roots in history class when we were taught about slavery and it changed my life. I feel like someone needs to watch something like this.
Omg yes !!! They should remaster it and play roots the entire series on the BBC or itv . It would really change alot of people's views.
@@lolll3360 It was remade around 2015 for the History Channel in 4 parts, it was pretty good and faithful to the book from what I remember. Read the book if you loved the Roots series, its super long and its an adventure.
Roots was a pretty good watch during secondary school. Would definitely recommend that all schools let their classes watch it.
the colour purple made me cry so hard.. i saw it when i was very young and it killed me how mean and evil people could be.
I loved the book. I own the movie on dvd and still haven't watched it though. It's been on my shelf for goodness knows how many years xD
I just watched this video and Abby Cox's video and I was enthralled. As a black American woman entering her seventh decade, I found both videos fascinating and informative and thoughtful and thought provoking. I've seen "The Color Purple" numerous times and it is one for my favorite movies ( I was very surprised that Abby Cox hadn't seen it) but I have no intention of seeing "12 years a slave" or "Beloved" any more than I will see "Schindler's List" or "Sophie's Choice". As you mentioned, the trauma associated with these movies is visceral. "Roots' traumatized me for years even though I had read the book and thought I knew what to expect. But the inhumanity of these types of movies is more than i care to bear so they will remain unseen. But I enjoyed these videos and I wanted you to know.
“Of course Brad Pitt would write himself as the savior” haha you right. He even has the Jesus hair style and facial hair look 😂😂
Way too heavy handed
Loved the movie reviews! It is always interesting to hear what Black people think about these movies because at times it can feel like guilt fuel, Southern romanticization, or just a flawed end result altogether. I definitely want to check out your recommendations for myself, because even hard to watch movies should be hard to watch for the right reasons.
Well said and I agree 100%.
“The Color Purple” was a required reading assignment for me when I was in high school which was in the late 90’s early 2000’s. Out of all the required readings from school like the classics of Shakespeare, and “To Kill a Mockingbird”, and “The catcher in the rye”, the book I remember the most or made the biggest impact during my high school years was “The color Purple”. It was just one of those books that when you started it you were so darn into it and could not put it down. The movie did such a good job of bringing the book to life in film. I love learning about history (the good, bad, and the ugly) and now that I have found you guys in the historical clothing community i juts can’t get enough of you guys. Thank you for all you guys do. Much love to you both. ❤️ ❤️
There was another movie I just watched recently that had an actor wearing the metal spiked slave collar (not sure of the actual name of collar). I think it might have been the movie “Free State of Jones”
When "Color Purple" came out in the bookstores, I STOOD in a bookstore and read the entire thing, in one evening. I was sooo sucked in to the story. And when I began to weep, in the bookstore (I was a girl graduate student then, no extra book money) folks from the coffee shop/bar in the back, began offering me cups of tea and drinks, when I was so overcome.
I watched 12 years a slave as a teenager, in class, and it was traumatic for me, and we were all in tears by the end
my class had a majority of afro-descendants for context
I haven't seen 'Belle' or 'Harriet', but have seen the other movies. I am happy to hear the point of view of an actual historian instead of a reviewer. I learned alot from watching your video and will now watch Abby's. I would also like to know of books I could read that explain more of the real facts about slavery, Black women during slavery and anything else that would educate me further on the subject. I am also interested in reading about the real underground railroad. I have read that many quilts were made that communicated information regarding the 'railroad', but have no idea if it's true. Since I went to all white schools until college, what I learned was from the white point of view. So much of what was taught was a palatable version, I would like to learn the real version. I appreciate any help you can provide. I'm 68 and still trying to learn as much as possible in order to contribute to an equal society. Thank you so much for this video.
I hope your able to find books written before 80’ s I believe you will learn a lot
@@hayleymadisonllc2180 Which '80s? Also, do you have any titles to get me started? Thanks!
Wow, respect!! I feel very much the same. I have been obsessed about this subject and the Holocaust since I was young because of things like Roots which left A MARK ON MY SOUL that can never be taken away! This reaction we have to these horrors is the HUMAN EXPERIENCE, not ONLY the Black experience, the Hispanic or White experience, it is the HUMAN EXPERIENCE, and when one sees something like this, or reads it or takes it in any form (when they really allow themselves to connect to a fellow man's pain and the evil from the pit of hell which caused it).....THAT is the HUMAN experience. We are never too old for that, my friend! ❤❤❤
Thank you. Favorite read aloud for middle school is Show Way by Jacqueline Woodson. It hits younglings in that age group right in the empathy, when I ask them to think back to the second graders they knew in elementary school being taken away from home and family to work in fields and houses. It also turns patriarchy on its head by only tracing the maternal line through the daughters and granddaughters, to emphasize how little attention was paid to partnerships formed by enslaved people. There is so much work to do!
Cheney, can I just genuinely thank you for what you are doing? I feel like many of us are fascinated with history and you are giving us an accurate history of what many Americans faced. And you are doing it in a way that is entertaining and doesn’t come across harshly at all. It’s a tough thing to speak of most times and especially to speak of in such an approachable way for people of all races, ethnicity’s and backgrounds. I appreciate that many of these videos feel like talking to a friend about history and learning in an open way. You have such an awesome talent to be able to teach us all about tough subjects and still have us all love watching. Thank you again for all you do!
Thank you so much! I loved hearing your perspective on these movies.
This is so interesting. I do find myself going in circles sometimes on issues like whether historical people could have freed their slaves... it is good to be reminded to go back to sources and look for the contemporary people who did.
And yes yes yes. Just like Nazis - we can all be that if we allow ourselves to forget that other people are people.
I have also read some of the reports of mother killing their children. And as a mother I don't know what i would do. and the heartwrench that comes from even contemplating it makes me want to cry.
If it helps, to me one of the best counter arguments against the idea of "We can't judge them by modern values" isn't just to point to abolitionists, but to look at how many laws and other things were put in place at the time as a way of preventing revolts against the enslavers. Because there you have the very people actively participating in the institution of slavery acknowledging that they are doing something which gives the enslaved ample reason to want them dead.
@@thebratqueen There's also plenty of extant emancipation/manumission documents that basically say "In recognition of how totally evil it is to own people, I'm freeing this person/these people I happen to own." Granted, some of those were probably abolitionists who bought slaves specifically to free them, but you gotta figure at least some of them were actual slaveowners who had a genuine change of heart.
There were many, many people who freed slaves that were inherited. I have been doing genealogy research and have found many. Many times they wait until they become "of age", adults, sometimes 30.
One person I saw lost his whole fortune by setting his slaves free and becoming a Quaker when he became of age and didn't have a guardian any longer.
One set of Quakers went to court in Virginia to free 300 slaves that were supposed to be set free according to a will. They won and many of the enslaved received land and money. Pleasants vs Pleasants
One left his land and money to his "natural and unlawful sons." He had living daughters who he said didn't need his money. Joseph Woodson
When people can be honest about history we will get somewhere. When people try to make their race supreme and disregard parts of history there will continue to be problems
@@douglasvilledarling2935 this is fascinating, thank you.
The Book, Beloved, has been sitting on my end table for a few months now. I'm trying to get the courage up to read it, because I know once I do it'll break my heart. Eventually I will get there, but it's similar to how you felt leaving the theater. Sometimes it just takes a bit of courage to face a past so bleak.
My third grade teacher used to talk about how she was in the background of a scene in "The Color Purple." Naturally, at age 8 or 9, I had never seen the film. Neither had my classmates. We just listened to her talk. Naturally, I've saw it when I grew old enough to see it. Great film.
I had NO idea about infanticide among enslaved women. Wow. This video inspired me to watch Beloved and to read The Color Purple for the first time. These videos really help me to be more aware of things I never even heard about as a white person so thank you for sharing all of this historical knowledge and insight :)
Eye opener- I’ve never seen beloved, but it never occurred to me that the scenario of children dying bc of slavery in that way was something that occurred. And it added a whole new level of realization to the horrors that slavery was
Eve's Bayou is another movie about the black experience that has nothing to do with how we were treated by white people.
I am still mad at my aunt for letting me and my brother watch beloved at 5 and 8 years old because i'm still a little scared of that movie and I really want to watch it but I don't know if I've got the courage.
Jordan G Same here. I watched it when I was like 11. My grandparents had it on tape and I popped it in while they were sleeping. I had no idea what was going on and the scenes are so visceral and frightening. It turned me off to the movie for a long time. I read “Beloved” as well as many other Toni Morrison books in high school and watched the movie again as an adult. It gives, in my opinion, one of the truer representations of slavery and how awful it was. To choose death for your child over enslavement gives you an idea of the trauma enslaved people endured.
nevacole13 I agree ! To be judged when you have to make a choice like that... most importantly in the end the women coming around to pray and save a troubled mind from her own Demons. Important comradery for black women!
I was like that with Sankofa
I love Eve’s Bayou since I was young bc it is so beautifully filmed and written (if you ask me) it’s about Black people through a black lens. Also during a time where it would have been easy to make the movie about race, they made it about family, and nothing else. In the Deep South, in a little town. I loved that.
i had strange feelings when watching Beloved...definitely something I’d have to watch again
Dido's turban was also in the Turkish style. High fashion at the time.
The Turkish style turbans were most commonly painted or styled on the heads of black servants. Even though she is painted as an equal, the turban and flowers were painted on as a nod to her heritage. Yes the Turban will continue to be fashionable until the early 19th century, but it is in consensus among art historians that she was painted with the turban and flowers to exoticize her.
@@NotYourMommasHistory ohh, you replied!! 😀 Iove your channel!!
IMO it's combination of exoticising her _and_ the turquerie trend. She def wasn't painted in the usual style of a orientalist-style of Black attendants during that period. (She wasn't even acknowledged as a subject of the portrait until the 1980s ☕)
I enjoyed the tiny glimpses into Black lives in London in the background of the action, could have done with more of that!
I found it a little problematic that they chose to restyle her in the painting in the movie not only removing the turban and finger but also the minimizing the difference in their poses - the original Dido is displayed as much more active to Bess’s static pose. I have an art history background and I think they missed an opportunity to have a full discussion by removing all the potentially problematic elements of the painting. Dido and Bess were not painted identically and by removing all those elements you miss a lot of what they were trying to say about their respective positions. They could have addressed that without losing the point of how important it was that she was painted as equal
Great feedback on Harriet! PS Would love to get your read on Hidden Figures! I think it gets unfairly dismissed because the first half hour is problematic, but the rest of the film makes up for it.
Excellent episode! Thank you for discussing & distilling films. The Color Purple’s still a favorite (book & film); hoping the film will be re-released in both theaters & HD! 🙌🏼
This is the best thing to have come up in my recommended box all year. Thank you for this - there’s so much to unpick and learn here and you’ve made it so accessible. Consider me subscribed 🙂
I loved The Color Purple when I read it back in high school. We also watched some of the scenes from the movie in class. It was so intense and impactful on me and my mostly white classmates. I should give it another read now that I'm an adult.
The automatic subtitles told me you said “welcome back to nightmare mama’s ...” haha! Halloween idea?
Re: trauma when watching films, as a person of Jewish descent I feel the same with many films about the Holocaust.
I absolutely understand what you mean about the trauma you experienced seeing some of these movies. I'm white and my child is black. I've done as best as I can to educate her but I failed to understand how traumatic seeing this in the big screen can be. My child was in high school when I took her to see Harriet and it was difficult for her. Over the past year I've also learned a lot more through watching my now adult child's experiences. Thank you for this video and keep doing what you do.
Thank you for making this video. The part about humanizing evil people, instead of making them monsters we don't identify with is so important. It's so easy to ignore someone's evil/miss things in the people in front of us if all we're expecting is the larger than life characters in stories.
Your perspectives are so interesting and nuanced. Harriet was my original real life heroine so the movie was something I was really excited for but came away...wanting. I was hoping for more about her railroad feats because she really was a badass and clever. I felt it was more about her beliefs. I love seeing all the details you point out. And I havent seen beloved, so I look forward to seeing what that has to offer. Thank you for this collaboration 💜
The idea of not making people like enslavers into caricatures is such a strong point to be made. By making them inhuman we distance ourselves from them and I think that’s part of the reason evil happens every generation. Amazing conversation about this; Beloved is also one of my favorite books, and The Color Purple is on my list of next to buy so I can finally read the actual text!
Humanize the badguy - so important as we ask, "why are you being/choosing/voting for someone who requires the suffering of others for their success?"
Exactly what is being done...projecting the horrors of people from the past onto people of today so there is no sympathy for them when people start to attack them.
Also, making it seem like black people saved themselves so their are no "white saviors" and can continue the "all white people are evil" agenda. Knowing for a fact some white people lost money, lives, friends and family to help save black people and then not acknowledging it makes me not want to spend my money on black movies because I know they are going to be black washed. Black washing history is not any better than white washing it
I worry you are missing the point. I saw this as a call to humanize so we can see this a human problem - and get out of the "only monsters are monstrous" trap.
I guess I worry that splitting hairs on "when white people do bad history" vs. "when black people do bad history" loses the plot.
All media has a POV, and can't be everything to all - much as we would like it to be. So saying, well, "Black movies make some of the same errors as white movies, so I'm not going to bother with them - I'll just stick with the mistakes I am familiar and comfortable with" misses the point of getting a multi-faceted view.
Where a movie has to chose a through line - and the white people in the story have already gotten screen time/a story/a Hallmark movie moment, the fact that they don't get mentioned in a particular media even with a particular POV doesn't feel terrible to me.
I've been following Abbey's channel for a bit now and I am so glad she made the offer for this collaboration! I love your channel, love your point of view, and I am not ashamed that I have learned SO MUCH! Thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. I am a new fan!
Thank you for letting us into this conversation! It was so good.
This was really interesting and overall a wonderful video!
This one isn't best described as a black historical film, but I remember watching 'The Color of Friendship' as a kid and it is amazing as a kids' movie that addresses racism head-on through these two girls and their discomfort/hate for each other which turns into friendship. I was really young when I watched it and it was the first time I'd ever heard of apartheid or 'Roots'. It is a Disney film, so isn't any sort of nuanced drama, but it did impact me as a kid growing up. I think it does a good job in showing how all the characters have prejudices and assumptions they need to move past to form lasting, positive relationships - your points about needing to humanize people reminded me of this film!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, this is really interesting to hear! If you've seen it, I'd be curious to also know what you think about the netflix series "Self Made" about Madame C J Walker.
I would like to see that critique too. I was very disappointed with the many historical inaccuracies I saw. Madame CJ Walker's life was worth telling as is, those extra unnecessary bits are manipulative.
Would love to hear your thoughts on Black Venus about Saartjie Baartman if you have seen it! It was disturbing but very well done I think.
Wow. I just love this intellectual conversation that also is so relevant to current invents. I learned a lot. “We have to humanize....so we realize that we could be them.” Brilliant.
You are both so amazing and this collab is wonderful! Cheyney and Abby both have SUCH great energy and I could watch them do educational collabs all day! How does this only have 3,500 views??
Omg I am so thankful I found this channel! I am hooked. You have such a talent for bringing these murky historical events into a human focus, if not crystal clear in their events and details due to the lack of surviving information. Thanks!
This was such a wonderful video! Historical context is so important and I know I can be guilty of hand waving it in favor of the pretty dresses. Thank you for making this! (And I'm so glad you included the Color Purple! It's one of my favorite books!)
So... _Belle_ I absolutely love that movie. I think is beautiful. But I definitely agree that it's an european higher class experience that is depicted. I wasn't really under any other impression when I first watched it and I'm not now. But what I can say is that it was one of the movies and stories that seriously sparked my interest for history, and I'm an archeologist today so I feel like the movie did so much for me in that regard.
_12 years a slave_ I only watched once and I haven't read the book. I can't say much about the film other than I cried when watching it... but I feel like I remember it as sort of White Savior motive-like? Huh... Maybe I should re-watch it soon, with these new impressions from this video here fresh in my mind.
Sadly I haven't had the Chance to watch _Harriet_ yet since it hasn't been out for long in Germnay where I live and also... corona. I am very excited to see it but it's good to know that they carricatured the "bad guys" before watching it. I agree that that is the wrong approach. Thereal evil men of hunanity are humans still and depicting them as carricatures is harmful. I know my countries history well and we learn it from young age... and never have I seen the Nazis depicted as carricatures of villians, just as very evil humans. That's how history needs to be shown. We are humans and humans did and do horrible things and we cannot close our eyes from that.
To my great shame I haven't watched _The colour purple_ yet though I plan in seeing it soon (as soon as I'm done with my next exams) since it's generally iconic and important. Again, I'm glad to have some pre-knowledge through this video about the stereotypes etc. before seeing it. I may also read the book for extra information/input.
_Beloved_ ... to be honest I haven't even heard of that movie or book before so I can't say more other than that I will try to watch it as soon as I can.
Great 'companion piece' video to Abby's, " Historical Films on the African Diaspora That You Should Watch | ft. Real Historians
". Fantastic, commendable research.
The Colour Purple is my all time fave movie - i ALWAYS cry, always sing along to Miss Celie's Blues (as well as i can lol) and always am impressed all over again with the incredible massive talent in that movie, my god! i like your perspective as a historian, as i like to know the facts of things :) just bingeing your channel for a while - such great content 💖
I’m what is now called a “privileged white” (and I agree that I am exactly that. Born white, attractive, middle class with a loving family, now upper middle class with five kids making good life choices... and yes, I have my problems - I have lived in disabling chronic pain the past 11 years and my 32 year zmarriage has been “challenging”.)
So.
I say all of that to let you know that despite our cultural, racial differences, I also have to walk out of films that show cruelty. I had to walk out of two museums after reading about photos I was looking at. One was is the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC and the other was a small museum in New Orleans re: Blacks in the South. I, like you, get a visceral reaction. In New Orleans I was reading about a seven year old little girl being taken from her mother, to be sold elsewhere. It was just too much for me. How dare it be too much for me when they had to live it- not just read about it. But there it is. My heart bleeds regarding the cruel fact that slavery ever existed ANYWHERE. I. Do. Not. Get. How. People. Were. So. Cruel. But thank you for these discussions. Many people will benefit from them. God bless you!
i really appreciate that this channel exists, talking in deoth about topics i would have never thought to think about, just came off the plantation wedding video, thanks for making me aware
I still Dream about The Colour Purple. It was legendary, and the atmosphere of the film was incredible. I could smell the fields.
I think "Fried Green Tomatoes" is extraordinarily accurate! (And yes, I realize we aren't talking about older era or a 'specific' person)
They may have been 'Emancipated' by law U.S. law, but they were all sense and purpose still Slaves!!!!
Cecily Tyson kills that roll and her look is still gorgeous!
Even in those ratted oversized, no laces, miss matched sox, worn out man's shoes!!!
"Secrets in the Sauce"! ;)
Thank you… I have learned a lot today… Question regarding “Beloved“ It made me wonder would they have an herbal “ remedy” to terminate their pregnancies? Might that have happened as well? Anyway… An absolute horrendous position to be in… in so many ways…. I have been enlightened by your video today ....thank you very much💜
Wow. Thank you for this! I have never seen any of these movies or read any of these book, and now I think I need to. Thank you for the additional perspective and history with which to view them. Please keep these conversation-starters coming. These are stories and histories that are need in my life!
Super great to watch a perspective that is so well rounded and considered. I know I've commented on other videos you've made saying the same thing. Your videos are ones that I could watch with people and really enjoy discussing after.
I love reviews and stories that enrich conversations that follow. I feel like you could talk about anything and I would enjoy hearing your side and thoughts:)
I'm so happy I saw your take on these movies before watching them. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.
I loved your conversation. It's such a great model of how to have a conversation about very difficult topics and be open to hearing the reactions as people from very different backgrounds and experiences come together.
Thank you for creating this video! I loved the context and perspective you added to each film . Abby’s channel referred me to your and I look forward to watching more of your videos! I have never watched the color purple before and will soon! I also really appreciated what you said about your feelings when watching movies about slavery- I am Jewish and have a really similar feeling when watching holocaust movies. I have to be aware and careful about which ones I watch and when as I have almost physical reactions during and feel almost haunted for weeks afterwards
New subscriber, thanks to Abby. Great video. Reminds me of the discussions we had in my African American Literature class. I was angry that I wasn't exposed to all of this great literature earlier. The Color Purple and Beloved were required reading of course but were so eye opening. I'm grateful for this.
There’s a book series you should look into, if you haven’t, called Chains. It’s from the perspective of an enslaved girl during the Revolutionary War. My class read it in 7th grade and it was pretty good.
I never knew they made a movie for Beloved. Love your analysis.
I’m so proud that you have this channel full of responsible research
I LOVED The Color Purple! Its my all-time favorite movie, hands down, no contest. That movie moves me in a way no other movie has been able to. You cry, you laugh, you get all the feels from this movie.
I saw Belle. It was ok. It was mildly relatable to me, but the storyline was interesting.
I never saw Harriet (and won't for reasons i won't divulge) or 12 years a slave. I can't do movies like that anymore. Times that depict slavery...I'm done with. Its too traumatic.
Roots was the first movie i saw that depicted slavery and i was traumatized and changed from within. I saw that movie as a child and it completely changed the way i viewed people and the world. Nothing will ever compare to the way Roots moved the needle socially. Its incomparable.
Thank you for sharing this with us! I love your channel and you are a complete inspiration for me. I hope you never stop sharing your passion. I'm a new subbie and here to stay! ❤❤❤
I'm from The Netherlands and I feel like w really do not talk about slavery enough. Thank you for you doing our job once again, and teaching me so much about your side of history
I felt like the son was humanized. It seemed like he was confused and conflicted. He believed strongly in the rules but he seemed to be twisted in love with her. However, I am unsure if the other characters lacked character because of lack of background on them specifically.
Omg Beloved is so amazing, we read the book for an English class at a community college. I was pleasantly surprised by how well they portrayed some of the more abstract aspects of the book.
Could you please try to get your volume up more in future videos?
Really enjoy all of your work. Very good in every regard. Thank you.
I would love to see your take on The Underground Railroad, even though it's historical fantasy not real history. I really enjoyed it, Thuso Mbedu was absolutely phenomenal in it!
Cheney, you are awesome! You tell it like it was, unflinchingly and well documented, and totally without rancor. FYI the new Amazon Prime series The Underground Railroad, was so full of cliches and caricatures that I lasted only about 10 minutes then gave up on it.
I have the same problem with strong reactions to certain films. The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman haunted me--saw it when I was 11, and I couldn't sleep for a week after watching Glory. I didn't even attempt 12 Years a Slave. Thank you for your perspective. You are a excellent educator!
As a kid I saw it , and I had nightmares. The way they were killed after they were set free
This was really good. I wish that you had talked about the Color Purple more, such a great book.
Thank you and Abby for doing this amazing video. I admit to some triggering, and I'm white, but I grew up in the country of half of my family's homeland, which was enslaved for four centuries. The story of Beloved, especially, touched home because this is exactly the kind of story I grew up with...mothers killing their kids and often entire groups of women and children taking, quite literally, a flying (or dancing, as the stories go) leap of off cliffs. Thank you for bringing these stories to the community. We all need to learn the histories of all peoples in our country and in the world.
Just seeing your reviews today, a year later, but OMG, YES, we 1000% agree with your Harriet comments. My partner and I looked at ea other, when the lights came back on in the theater and said, "WHAT was that?!" Huge eye roll after that movie.
I read Beloved in college as part of a class. I got to the scene in the woodshed about 11PM at night and then spent the next couple of hours just kind of wandering around the dorms from the gut punch. That was close to 25 years ago and it still stands out in my mind.
The Color Purple...gave me chills just watching the clip. Waiting to see what they do with it as a musical.
I'm so glad I found you ladies. I love that you're having these conversations! I love the work you're doing!!!
I'm old and this might not be topical enough for your channel, but I'd love for you to do a review of the miniseries "Roots". I remember watching it as a child and thinking that this should be required reading/watching for every American.
Thank you very much Cheyney and Abby for these super interesting analytical videos. I personally have never seen any of these movies, but I will endeavour to find them online somewhere and watch them.
Out of curiosity do you know much about Australian history? As we are part of the British commonwealth and started as a penal colony we have a chequered past when it comes to dealing with Aboriginal people. If you're interested I'd highly recommend reading and watching Rabbit Proof Fence. It's about 3 young girls who were stolen from their family and tribe by the government to be re-educated and how they ran away from their captors and followed the rabbit proof fence back home. I'm sure there is some 'artistic licence' taken in the movie but it is very interesting nonetheless.
You are becoming one of my favorite history teachers Queen 👸🏽 and 👸🏻
I'm wondering if you'd recommend these, or any other films for an 8 year old to watch. All of the movies look very interesting, and I'm tempted to rewatch (with wiser, adult eyes) "The Color Purple" and "Beloved" but my daughter is here constantly and I'd rather not traumatize her anymore than I already have (I've had to fast forward over forgotten, sexualized scenes a few times). 😊
May I recommend IMDB's Parent's Guide? Contributors lay out all of the details and have helped me to avoid some of those same problems!
'The Color of Friendship' is a Disney movie that I would recommend for kids and parents. Though it's not exactly a black historical drama, it is set against the backdrop of 70's US and apartheid SA.
I'm so glad Abby Cox did a collab with you! I've now found a new content creator to be obsessed with! And you're message is so important and I'm so ready to learn.
So happy you covered The Color Purple. Insanely good book. ❤
Caitlin Doughty from Ask A Mortician mentioned your vlog on her channel and brought me here.
Great information.
We had a conversation about slavery a few days ago and my maybe future stepmother and she said that slaves would stay with their masters because they wouldn’t know what to do after they were free and the entire conversation was just me internally screaming
😮😡 really