I recently purchased a 30,000BTU propane Buck Stove ventless free standing fireplace. I am very happy with the amount of heat that the unit puts out. I have noticed that while the fireplace is on it puts out a bit of a petroleum smell. I never really felt light headed but I would often get a scratchy throat but I wasn't sure that the fireplace was causing this. I do open a window slightly when I run the fire place it as I feel since it is consuming oxygen for the burning process it has to be depleting the O2 levels in the room. After watching some videos such as yours I became more concerned about the CO2 levels of the ventless design and decided to get a CO2 meter. With the stove on the high setting I was seeing CO2 levels of around 1800PPM in the middle of the living room (Room size 24' x 21' x 10H) and 3400PPM close to the stove. Additionally the CO2 levels in the adjoining rooms were surprisingly about the same coming in at 1700-1800PPM. Apparently the CO2 travels significantly throughout the house which was a surprise to me. Setting the fireplace to the low setting lowers the CO2 to around an average of 1500PPM. I could only imagine that if I left the windows closed that those readings would be even higher. Leaving the windows open, while trying to heat the house, seems counter productive. There seems to be some debate online regarding what a healthy CO2 level is but most seem to say that above 1000PPM is getting in the unhealthy range. Based on this information I am going to probably look to change this fireplace out for a vented model.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the unit. The installation is very simple and was preformed by a professional. It consist of setting the unit on the hearth, hooking up the gas line and turning it on. I think most people have never actually taken the time to purchase a meter and check the results. I believe the measurements that I have taken are accurate as they are very consistent day to day. I have checked and rechecked my results multiple times. @@SpecialtyGasHouse
My Grandfather's only source for heating his house was vent free gas (propane I'm certain) heaters. They lasted about forty years or longer as he built his house in the 1960's (can't remember actual year) and he died in 2009. They never were cleaned and never produced soot. I might feel a little oxygen deprived on occasion after my Grandmother got older and he would run them very hot because she would get very cold in her 70's. But they never got ill from it. He also extended the life of his shingles by about 35 years or more very cheaply and easily. That portion he treated so long ago has just begun to leak, so my sons and I had to tarp it until it warms a little. But most of the roof doesn't leak at all. My mother inherited the house more or less and put central heat and air in it. Old man knew some things. The wood he used on his roof was 3/4" tongue and groove old pine. You can walk on it today and it does not flex unlike this particle board crap they sell these days and have the audacity to tell us it is better for our roofs and flooring. The roof wood has no bug damage and has never been treated for any infestation.
Your videos, this one and your Gas Fireplace 101 video, are excellent information. The sound quality on this particular video is very poor, we had to hold our phone to our ear with volume all the way up. I highly recommend you reshoot this video without interruptions in your store and to wear a mic. You are very knowledgeable, very well spoken, and have great information to share. Thank you very much for this information!
My home was built in 1875 and is 2300 sqft.Lots of oxygen as its probably more drafty than most. I've experienced no issues with vent free fireplaces. If you are not aware of the possible issues then don't get one. . You must be vigilant. They get old. They need replaced after a time. I use it in conjunction with my fuel oil furnace. Some folks are more sensitive than others. As i said I've had no issues, but I'm ALWAYS aware of how my family is responding to whatever i bring into the home. If you are the type who is always aware of what is running in your home, you will be fine. If you are not, then go with another heat source. Can you elaborate on why the logs are so important as to their placement ?
Well said, Russell. Each vent-free gas log has a specific burner that it needs to go with. The logs have very specific placements that they go on the burner in order to burn clean. If a log is out of place and the flame is hitting it, black carbon will build up on the log. If black carbon starts to build up and your damper is closed, then it will start to spread to your ceiling and walls. It will happen quick too! So to make sure this does not happen, the logs not only have to go on the correct burner, but they need to be placed in the correct spots according to the manual.
I work for a fireplace business in the Indy area I install empire logs I think there are the best vent free out there never have any complaints about them good videos you do
This is a great video. We know that when gas burns, one of the byproducts of combustion is H2o or water vapor. Will there be a condensation issue with the non-vented style?
Vent-free is kind of like a humidifier when they are running. So they are nice in most houses that are pretty dry in the Winter. But this is a reason they say not to burn them 24/7 as your primary heat source. Using them for a few hours at a time will not cause any condensation issues at all. If you have a whole house humidifier, I would just shut it off when the fireplace is running.
Recently relocated. Old house had vent free logs and we loved them. New house has vented, which we hate. Waste of energy. I'm struggling to find local help concerning this fireplace. What is involved in going from vented logs to unvented? Ours is gas, not propane. I'll search your channel more to see if you've already answered this. Thx.
Do you currently have a wood-burning fireplace with vented gas logs in it? Are you able to reach in and touch your logs? If yes, it's as simple as picking out a vent free gas logs and finding someone to swap out your vented gas logs. It's an easy process. Feel free to send me measurements of your fireplace and I can let you know what size gas logs you'll need. I would need the front width, back wall width, depth and height to know what size will fit in your fireplace.
I don't get it; one gas fire makes dangerous levels of CO and so it has to be vented up a chimney, yet another gas fire somehow doesn't need venting up a chimney. What is the difference between the gas fires that makes one emit dangerous levels of CO and the other one safe levels of CO?
It is first how much gas they are using. A vented gas fireplace uses roughly 90,000 BTU's, a ventless fireplace uses 24,000-36,000 BTU's. Vented gas fireplaces just have a valve that opens up the gas that you light on fire. Pretty simple operation that is just lighting the gas on fire. Ventless gas fireplaces, don't need to be vented because of their specially designed burners. Ventless gas fireplaces use highly efficient burners that ensure nearly all of the fuel is combusted. This means they produce a clean burn with minimal byproducts, such as carbon dioxide and water vapor, rather than harmful pollutants like carbon monoxide in significant amounts. All ventless gas fireplaces are also equipped with an Oxygen Depletion Sensor, which automatically shuts off the fireplace if the oxygen level in the room drops below a safe threshold. This safety feature helps prevent any buildup of dangerous gases.
@@SpecialtyGasHouse Thanks for your answer. I am a gas engineer and was pondering this question. But if 'highly efficient' gas burners are available, then suerly it would be smart to use them in flued heaters too, since the cost of gas is pretty high in many places now. Can my home gas burner's be converted to highly efficient ones? Often I can smell unburnt gases near it. My home gas burner is flued and is 36kW or 122,837 BTU's. Regards, Robert
My situation may have fallen into some of your categories, but in my own experience I'm going for vented for now on as I do feel the effects of vent free, sort of a light headiness. Many years ago I worked in a space heated by a radiant style kerosene (vent free) space heater with out issue, but over the years started to feel a bit off after being in that space, at which time I made a mini-chimney out of aluminum foil for the exhaust to be 'funneled' out a nearby chimney which solved that problem, but I could tell by how I feel if my chimney contraption got knocked out of place and would replace it. Years later I looked into a vent free propane heater for my home to heat about the same amount of space (700 sq ft or so). I figured that propane is much cleaner than kerosene and it should be fine. Though after running it a bit I started to feel once again a bit off and light headed. Turned it off and tried it again a day later and the same thing, and returned it to either the orange or blue big box store (forgot which one). Now this may be due to too much damage from the years of the kero-heater, or some other personal issue that I am unaware of, but for many years I was fine with vent free then I was not. Perhaps the new propane heater was not burning correctly, IDK but after my experience I'm not going vent free anymore.
Hi David, thanks for the feedback! You are definitely right about propane being much cleaner burning than kersone. As far as the propane vent-free heater, there is usually a burnoff period for those. The paints and oils used on them need to burn off like when you first get a new grill. When you first light them up they usually give off an obnoxious smell that can lead to a headache so it is best to open up the windows for the insital burn off. But after the inital 4-12 hours of continuous burn time the smell subsides. After that first burnoff you might have ended up liking the heater. We always prefer to go with American Made vent-free products because in our experience they don't give off a strong smell like the big box store heaters do occasionally. But vent-free is not for everyone and a direct-vent is also a great option! I just like vent-free because of the effeciency and the cost compared to direct-vent. But they both do a great job with heating a space!
So a Rumford Style Wood Burning full Masonry Fireplace (built new) with a throat damper -- would be considered a "vented" if a Gas Log Set were to be included as part of the new construction plans? Is there a code requirement to "PROP" the damper open even when you don not have the unit running ? Just need some clarification so I can plan it all out -- Thanks
Yes, every vented gas log needs a damper clamp installed on the damper so the damper is propped open a little bit even when closed. This is installed as a safety precaution just in case you forget to open the damper before using it.
In the neighborhood I was raised in back in the 50s, everybody had vent free Dearborn heaters. I wouldn't mind having one in my home today and am looking at some, but I would have a CO detector nearby too. Here in CA we can't get them...
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We are replacing our roofing and want to go to ventless logs and remove our chimney (all pipe). What do I have to do below the roof? Cap the prefab fireplace?
We have used the vent free from Northern tool and it works great but it does leave a carbon substance on curtains. It’s in a 16 X 22 foot room. I don’t understand that slight smell unless we run the ceiling fan? I was considering vented heater but I don’t want to have cool air sifting in when it’s not running, nor do I want the additional expense.
Your gas logs are most likely out of place. I would definitely stop using the unit until this is fixed. All vent-free burners and logs have to be placed in a very specific way according the manual. The logs have exact spots they need to go. If the logs are out of place they will create carbon, this is NOT supposed to be happening. This is most likely what is causing the smell also. I would contact who installed your unit to fix this issue and place the logs in the correct spot.
Who services vent free fireplaces? Our home we recently bought has 3 vent free and we have no idea who installed these. Less than 3 years old. Original owner never turned them on. We get the smell and headaches when using them. Any suggestions?
I would search for gas fireplace shops in your area. They probably installed them and would service them. It seems like your logs could potentially be out of place or in need of service.
I guess what I wonder is if i have a crack in my 80k BTU furnace its considered dangerous and red-tagged, although most of it is still being power vented outside. But with ventless your knocking down 40k btu right into the space, will this continually set off the carbon monoxide detectors?
Ventless gas fireplaces and furnaces differ in how they handle combustion byproducts. Ventless burns 99.9% clean and produces minimal byproducts like water vapor and carbon dioxide (CO2), both of which can be safely dispersed into a room in small amounts. This is also why a max of 40k btu's can be used on a ventless burner. The burners in ventless fireplaces are engineered to minimize harmful emissions, such as carbon monoxide (CO), and include oxygen depletion sensors to monitor air quality. These are the reasons why ventless fireplaces will not set off carbon monoxide detectors because of how efficient and clean they burn. Furnaces burn larger quantities of fuel to heat an entire house. This process generates more byproducts, including higher levels of CO, nitrogen dioxide (NO2), and other harmful gases. This is why they require venting to avoid dangerous levels indoors.
That is kind of a loaded question. Is it the first time you have used it in a while? It could be dust burning off the logs. Have you recently done work in the house? Or do you burn candles or have scented wall plug ins in the room?
My parents house (built in 2008) has a ventless fireplace in the living room. If that thing is on for even an hour while you’re upstairs you will be nauseous in short order. Even with a window open up there the fumes build up rapidly. You would probably have to open every single window upstairs in order to avoid fume build up, which is ridiculous if it’s cold enough outside to have the fire on in the first place. On the first floor it takes a few hours before you start feeling sick.
Thank you for the valuable information. I have a question: I have a pavilion and want to install a gas vent-free fireplace. If I enclosed the pavilion with plastic curtains will I have any problem? Thank you for any help provided :-)
Vent-free does create a little bit of moisture. Most houses are pretty dry in the Winter so this is actually a good thing because you won't have to run a humidifier. But that is the main reason they say not to burn them 24hrs. If you ran your vent free all day every day there is the possibility of creating a moisture issue.
@@SpecialtyGasHouse Adequate fresh air for combustion will mitigate potential moisture issues, and the buildup of mold. The principal combustion byproduct of a properly functioning gas appliance is moisture. Many vent free heater problems are caused by installing a uint whose Btu output is too large for the cubic volume of the space to be heated. For example, a 375 sq.ft space can be heated by a 10,000 Btu heater, but many homeowners install a 20,000 or 30,000 Btu unit, assuming that "more is better." This leads to all kinds of problems with air quality and oxygen supply.
A vented gas fireplace does not burn clean which is why it needs to be vented at all times. If you do not vent a vented gas fireplace, your house will not only fill up with carbon monoxide but since it is not venting any of the carbon buildup from the logs, your walls will be filled with black carbon also. Not venting a vented gas log would be similar to burning a wood fire with the damper closed.
Great video and very informative. Being new to the fireplace world I have been getting different opinions from people whose opinions I respect but am still confused. I bought a home with a fireplace that is vented and am sure that it had a vented log set at one time but was changed and now has a ventless log set. I had a serviceman come to check the system and he installed a clamp on the vent so it would stay open as he said he was required to do so. I didn't question him as I trusted his opinion, but as I do more research I realized that I am more interested in efficiency that ambiance. I have since removed the clamp and shut the vent by about 75% and have experienced no ill effects and the house is much warmer. Would you feel comfortable in closing the vent all the way? I have installed CO2 monitors as well.
If it is a ventless gas log set and the logs are placed in the correct spot, then yes, you can absolutely shut the damper completely. The only time a damper clamp is required to be installed is with a vented gas log set.
I would be more worried about CO than CO2. CO will kill you with much less warning than CO2. We had the CO monitor go off one evening in our camper when we were at a rodeo, Come to find out, my son and I (both three sheets to the wind) turned the generator so it made less noise where we were sitting outside and drinking but pointed the exhaust right under the camper.
I am sorry I don't know of any shops up there. I would definitely get someone that specializes in vent-free or sells them to come inspect it. Good Luck!
Hey Rod, I’m in Charleston WV. We are building rn. Our fireplace space is approx 4.5 - 5’ tall and 6 wide. Can I do a ventless that looks like real logs open in a space that large?
Absolutely. Here are a couple of brochures with different fire boxes you can go with. They have measurements of the boxes on the back. www.empireinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/00545_092719_Breckenridge.pdf www.empireinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/01059_030120_Vail.pdf
We just moved into a condo that has a vent free gas fireplace. The first time we used it there was such a STRONG smell of gas for that didn't go away after like 30 minutes. Is that normal? We will def get it serviced since it's new to us but just wondering if you had any feedback on the gas smell. Thanks!
If it hasn't been used in a while it could just be the dust burning off the logs, kind of like the first time you turn on your furnace for the year. Or if you recently painted or had any strong smells near the room like a plugin or candle burning, vent-free will draw in those smells and it will mix with the gas and put off an unpleasant odor, similar to kerosene.
They do produce moisture, they are kind of like humidifiers when they are not being vented at all, which is a good thing in most homes because they are usually pretty dry in the Winter. But this is a reason I would not use them as a main heat source.
No carbon monoxide with vent-free? Why not build an open hearth in the middle of the room and place a unit on it? Not trying to be cheeky but I just don't understand how a vent-free is safe. How is this different from just turning on a propane stove in an RV without the window open? That aside, I am intrigued by your product
We have had two vent free units for years and have not had any issues. We’re thinking about installing a third unit unit in our study to help with heat management and not have to use the wood stove insert much on that side of the house.
You can cook on a natural gas stove in your house, what’s the difference with a burner in a fireplace? None, really. Now is there still a question or air quality? Possibly. But it’s no less safe then natural gas oven or stove.
@@scubajim5975 There are laws requiring hoods with exhaust fans that vent outside over gas stoves to vent exhaust, laws requiring gas water heaters and furnaces vent exhaust to the outside, laws covering gas fireplaces that they be required to vent to the outside. Unvented propane heaters are venting the exhaust into the air you breathe. "Now is there still a question or air quality? Possibly." I and my asthma can guarantee you there is an issue, I lived for over a year, close to two with an unvented heater and it seriously messed with my breathing whether I had a window open or not, I had to stop using the non vented and find a vented heater at a much much higher cost so I could breathe clean air again. I wish it was not a problem but it was and is.
I use the Rinnai vent free heater in my basement and it works great! You do need power for it though. www.rinnai.us/residential/vent-free-fan-convectors If you are looking for something that looks like a fireplace, an Empire Stove or White Mountain Hearth Vail with cabinet would work well. I added links below. Stove - whitemountainhearth.com/products/cast-iron-stoves/ Fireplace w/ cabinet - whitemountainhearth.com/products/vent-free/vail-fireplaces/
Thanks for posting this video, very little info on ventless. What is your opinion about a ventless gas fireplace in a bathroom? I am thinking about a 26-30 inch . Hope you reply. Thanks
@@cghrios783 If a ventless heater or gas fireplace is going into a small room that can be closed off with doors like a bedroom or bathroom, the max BTU's that can be used is 10k. So as long as it is a 10k BTU unit vent free would work well and heat the bathroom nicely.
Any American made brand should work well. We sell White Mountain Hearth, Real Fyre, Hargrove, Everwarm and American Hearth. White Mountain Hearth is our #1 seller.
The propane company rep. just came out to look at my Fireplace for a vent free unit and he told me that I would have lines on my ceiling and that the color of the paint on my fireplace mantel would change from white to yellow.
Gas lines on the ceiling? Or colored lines? There should be neither. However, since vent-free puts out a lot of heat, you do have to make sure your mantel is a certain distance above the opening of the fireplace. Sometimes a hood may be needed if the mantel is really close. A hood would help direct the heat away from the mantel to prevent discoloring or the paint from bubbling up. This tends to only happen when you have a white mantel.
Potential problems with vent free heaters: Inadequate fresh air for proper combustion. Oversized heater for a given space. Excessive moisture as a combustion byproduct can cause mold. Unpleasant odors caused by substances in the indoor air (cat litter boxes, incense, cooking odors, paint, perfume, aerosol products, etc.) which get burned by the ventless heater. Almost all vent free heaters are made in China, and most of them are junk. To my knowledge, only Empire Comfort Systems makes vent free heaters manufactured in the U.S., but Williams may also make vent free heaters assembled in the U.S. Do your homework. Follow installation instructions carefully. Use approved supply piping for the installation (black iron or soft copper tubing), and install a sediment trap and a gas shutoff valve in the supply line, below the heater. Observe safe clearances from heater to floor, walls, and ceiling. Soap test and pressure test the gas supply line and fittings, after installation. Install a good carbon monoxide detector in the same room as your vent free heater. Vent free heaters with integral bulb type thermostats are more efficient than manual control heaters. Cut no corners. Do the installation by the book, or hire a licensed gas technician to do the work.
Hi Jay, ALL of the vent-free we sell is manufactured and distributed in the U.S. That includes Empire (White Mountain Hearth), Peterson (Real Fyre), Hargrove, American Hearth & Everwarm. You are correct about the smell that can come from VOCs that are in the air. That is why we recommend not having any strong-smelling candles or plug-ins in the room with vent-free on. When painting the house it is also best to wait until the fresh paint smell goes away before operating the vent-free. It is nothing harmful it just puts off an unpleasant smell after mixing with the gas. We always prefer professional installation to ensure the unit will operate safely and without issues. When you install an American-Made vent-free product correctly, they are incredibly efficient and will provide you plenty of heat without spending an arm and a leg on your fireplace & utility bill!
Yep! Any time a gas appliance is installed in a home it is smart to get a carbon monixide detector. But it should never go off with vent-free as long as it was installed correctly.
I have over 35 years of electrical experience with state and federal cards. A few years back, I saw our power supply house had installed electronic meters on our house and business 😮😢 they can be compromised, after building our new 2000 squ.ft.pole barn home with 10 ft. ceiling height our Oct. to Nov. electric bill had tripled over $300, while building our new home I had installed gas lines to every appliance area if needed, in Feb 2021 I installed Pleasant Hearth propane fire place 33,000 BTU MADE IN AMERICA , propane cook stove , water heater , mr. heater propane 18,000 btu (probably China made) in garage and installed gas lines to flat iron griddle in my garage with range hood don't forget back splash 😂 ,I burn around 700 gal. per year ,this year in July I paid $1.49 per gallon ,I haven't used my furnace only to circulate heat using blower only, no smells,moisture just yearly cleaning on heaters and they're energy efficient.
There is no way around it. Vent free is bad. NO2 is going directly into your house it also smells bad. Some states don't even want gas stoves due to its link to asthma. I personally think gas is the best for cooking but there is also an exhaust fan, unlike a vent free fireplace which is also using a lot more gas than a cooking stove.
This is not completely true. One of the main reasons why an exhaust fan is needed on a gas stove and not with a vent-free fireplace is when you cook you produce additional pollutants, such as grease, smoke, and odors, which can combine with the byproducts of combustion to reduce indoor air quality. This does not happen when burning gas fireplaces unless you are introducing VOC's into the air like strong smelling candles, air fresheners or have recently done house work like painting. Gas stoves have much higher combined BTU's than a vent-free fireplace. Vent-free Fireplaces range from 10,000-40,000 BTU's. Each burner on a gas stove averages 13,000BTU's. So a gas stove can reach much higher levels of gas usage which is another reason why a exhaust fan is needed.
I would say the biggest downside, which is sometimes a good thing, is the moisture they produce. They are kind of like humidifiers when they are not being vented at all, which is a positive in most homes because they are usually pretty dry in the Winter. But this is a reason I would not use them as a main heat source. If they are being used for a few hours here and there you would not see any side effects of this. We sell every type of gas fireplace so we try to not be bias towards any of them. We just like to explain the difference and let the customer pick out the best product for their circumstance.
I recently purchased a 30,000BTU propane Buck Stove ventless free standing fireplace. I am very happy with the amount of heat that the unit puts out. I have noticed that while the fireplace is on it puts out a bit of a petroleum smell. I never really felt light headed but I would often get a scratchy throat but I wasn't sure that the fireplace was causing this. I do open a window slightly when I run the fire place it as I feel since it is consuming oxygen for the burning process it has to be depleting the O2 levels in the room. After watching some videos such as yours I became more concerned about the CO2 levels of the ventless design and decided to get a CO2 meter. With the stove on the high setting I was seeing CO2 levels of around 1800PPM in the middle of the living room (Room size 24' x 21' x 10H) and 3400PPM close to the stove. Additionally the CO2 levels in the adjoining rooms were surprisingly about the same coming in at 1700-1800PPM. Apparently the CO2 travels significantly throughout the house which was a surprise to me. Setting the fireplace to the low setting lowers the CO2 to around an average of 1500PPM. I could only imagine that if I left the windows closed that those readings would be even higher. Leaving the windows open, while trying to heat the house, seems counter productive. There seems to be some debate online regarding what a healthy CO2 level is but most seem to say that above 1000PPM is getting in the unhealthy range. Based on this information I am going to probably look to change this fireplace out for a vented model.
It sounds like there is something wrong with that specific unit or how it was installed. I would call whoever you bought it from or who installed it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the unit. The installation is very simple and was preformed by a professional. It consist of setting the unit on the hearth, hooking up the gas line and turning it on. I think most people have never actually taken the time to purchase a meter and check the results. I believe the measurements that I have taken are accurate as they are very consistent day to day. I have checked and rechecked my results multiple times. @@SpecialtyGasHouse
My Grandfather's only source for heating his house was vent free gas (propane I'm certain) heaters. They lasted about forty years or longer as he built his house in the 1960's (can't remember actual year) and he died in 2009. They never were cleaned and never produced soot. I might feel a little oxygen deprived on occasion after my Grandmother got older and he would run them very hot because she would get very cold in her 70's. But they never got ill from it. He also extended the life of his shingles by about 35 years or more very cheaply and easily. That portion he treated so long ago has just begun to leak, so my sons and I had to tarp it until it warms a little. But most of the roof doesn't leak at all. My mother inherited the house more or less and put central heat and air in it. Old man knew some things. The wood he used on his roof was 3/4" tongue and groove old pine. You can walk on it today and it does not flex unlike this particle board crap they sell these days and have the audacity to tell us it is better for our roofs and flooring. The roof wood has no bug damage and has never been treated for any infestation.
That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing
i have had ventless gas fire place for over 10 years, never had dizzyness or lightheadedness
Yet
thank you for the video i am in the process of changing from wood to propane gas fire place was not sure if i needed vent or vent less
Your videos, this one and your Gas Fireplace 101 video, are excellent information. The sound quality on this particular video is very poor, we had to hold our phone to our ear with volume all the way up. I highly recommend you reshoot this video without interruptions in your store and to wear a mic. You are very knowledgeable, very well spoken, and have great information to share. Thank you very much for this information!
Yeah, someone talking in the background and in the same room kinda ruined the video.
I'm in Arizona, small town, and if the gas company comes into your home , they will red tag the vent free units. I would like to know what to do.
Get a propane bottle and run it off of that
My home was built in 1875 and is 2300 sqft.Lots of oxygen as its probably more drafty than most. I've experienced no issues with vent free fireplaces. If you are not aware of the possible issues then don't get one. . You must be vigilant. They get old. They need replaced after a time. I use it in conjunction with my fuel oil furnace. Some folks are more sensitive than others. As i said I've had no issues, but I'm ALWAYS aware of how my family is responding to whatever i bring into the home. If you are the type who is always aware of what is running in your home, you will be fine. If you are not, then go with another heat source.
Can you elaborate on why the logs are so important as to their placement ?
Well said, Russell. Each vent-free gas log has a specific burner that it needs to go with. The logs have very specific placements that they go on the burner in order to burn clean. If a log is out of place and the flame is hitting it, black carbon will build up on the log. If black carbon starts to build up and your damper is closed, then it will start to spread to your ceiling and walls. It will happen quick too!
So to make sure this does not happen, the logs not only have to go on the correct burner, but they need to be placed in the correct spots according to the manual.
@@SpecialtyGasHouse
Damper? Mine is vent-free...do I have a damper?
Like all things in life
It pays to be smarter than your situation ☺️
I work for a fireplace business in the Indy area I install empire logs I think there are the best vent free out there never have any complaints about them good videos you do
I agree!
This is a great video. We know that when gas burns, one of the byproducts of combustion is H2o or water vapor. Will there be a condensation issue with the non-vented style?
Vent-free is kind of like a humidifier when they are running. So they are nice in most houses that are pretty dry in the Winter. But this is a reason they say not to burn them 24/7 as your primary heat source. Using them for a few hours at a time will not cause any condensation issues at all. If you have a whole house humidifier, I would just shut it off when the fireplace is running.
Recently relocated. Old house had vent free logs and we loved them. New house has vented, which we hate. Waste of energy. I'm struggling to find local help concerning this fireplace. What is involved in going from vented logs to unvented? Ours is gas, not propane. I'll search your channel more to see if you've already answered this. Thx.
Do you currently have a wood-burning fireplace with vented gas logs in it? Are you able to reach in and touch your logs? If yes, it's as simple as picking out a vent free gas logs and finding someone to swap out your vented gas logs. It's an easy process.
Feel free to send me measurements of your fireplace and I can let you know what size gas logs you'll need. I would need the front width, back wall width, depth and height to know what size will fit in your fireplace.
What about using a vent free fireplace in an airtight home?
I don't get it; one gas fire makes dangerous levels of CO and so it has to be vented up a chimney, yet another gas fire somehow doesn't need venting up a chimney.
What is the difference between the gas fires that makes one emit dangerous levels of CO and the other one safe levels of CO?
Good question
It is first how much gas they are using. A vented gas fireplace uses roughly 90,000 BTU's, a ventless fireplace uses 24,000-36,000 BTU's. Vented gas fireplaces just have a valve that opens up the gas that you light on fire. Pretty simple operation that is just lighting the gas on fire.
Ventless gas fireplaces, don't need to be vented because of their specially designed burners. Ventless gas fireplaces use highly efficient burners that ensure nearly all of the fuel is combusted. This means they produce a clean burn with minimal byproducts, such as carbon dioxide and water vapor, rather than harmful pollutants like carbon monoxide in significant amounts.
All ventless gas fireplaces are also equipped with an Oxygen Depletion Sensor, which automatically shuts off the fireplace if the oxygen level in the room drops below a safe threshold. This safety feature helps prevent any buildup of dangerous gases.
@@SpecialtyGasHouse
Thanks for your answer.
I am a gas engineer and was pondering this question.
But if 'highly efficient' gas burners are available, then suerly it would be smart to use them in flued heaters too, since the cost of gas is pretty high in many places now.
Can my home gas burner's be converted to highly efficient ones?
Often I can smell unburnt gases near it.
My home gas burner is flued and is 36kW or 122,837 BTU's.
Regards,
Robert
So if you have a wood burning fireplace you can install a vent free unit and adjust the damper as you like; from zero to fully open correct?
Correct!
My situation may have fallen into some of your categories, but in my own experience I'm going for vented for now on as I do feel the effects of vent free, sort of a light headiness. Many years ago I worked in a space heated by a radiant style kerosene (vent free) space heater with out issue, but over the years started to feel a bit off after being in that space, at which time I made a mini-chimney out of aluminum foil for the exhaust to be 'funneled' out a nearby chimney which solved that problem, but I could tell by how I feel if my chimney contraption got knocked out of place and would replace it. Years later I looked into a vent free propane heater for my home to heat about the same amount of space (700 sq ft or so). I figured that propane is much cleaner than kerosene and it should be fine. Though after running it a bit I started to feel once again a bit off and light headed. Turned it off and tried it again a day later and the same thing, and returned it to either the orange or blue big box store (forgot which one). Now this may be due to too much damage from the years of the kero-heater, or some other personal issue that I am unaware of, but for many years I was fine with vent free then I was not. Perhaps the new propane heater was not burning correctly, IDK but after my experience I'm not going vent free anymore.
Hi David, thanks for the feedback! You are definitely right about propane being much cleaner burning than kersone. As far as the propane vent-free heater, there is usually a burnoff period for those. The paints and oils used on them need to burn off like when you first get a new grill. When you first light them up they usually give off an obnoxious smell that can lead to a headache so it is best to open up the windows for the insital burn off. But after the inital 4-12 hours of continuous burn time the smell subsides. After that first burnoff you might have ended up liking the heater.
We always prefer to go with American Made vent-free products because in our experience they don't give off a strong smell like the big box store heaters do occasionally. But vent-free is not for everyone and a direct-vent is also a great option! I just like vent-free because of the effeciency and the cost compared to direct-vent. But they both do a great job with heating a space!
Thank you for your comment. We are in the same situation.
So a Rumford Style Wood Burning full Masonry Fireplace (built new) with a throat damper -- would be considered a "vented" if a Gas Log Set were to be included as part of the new construction plans? Is there a code requirement to "PROP" the damper open even when you don not have the unit running ? Just need some clarification so I can plan it all out -- Thanks
Yes, every vented gas log needs a damper clamp installed on the damper so the damper is propped open a little bit even when closed. This is installed as a safety precaution just in case you forget to open the damper before using it.
In the neighborhood I was raised in back in the 50s, everybody had vent free Dearborn heaters. I wouldn't mind having one in my home today and am looking at some, but I would have a CO detector nearby too. Here in CA we can't get them...
Shout out to Columbus Ohio !
Have never heard of you but I'll be sure to check you guys out thanks for the information
Stop on by! We service & install gas fireplaces, fire pits, gas lamps, fill propane tanks and then also sell BBQ Grills & accessories! Make sure to sign up for our newsletter on our website to stay up to date on all the events we have. We host free cooking classes in the summer, have a cookout every Friday and host a Big Green Egg cooking festival called The Ohio Eggfest in July.
So how does it work though?
We are replacing our roofing and want to go to ventless logs and remove our chimney (all pipe). What do I have to do below the roof? Cap the prefab fireplace?
We have used the vent free from Northern tool and it works great but it does leave a carbon substance on curtains. It’s in a 16 X 22 foot room. I don’t understand that slight smell unless we run the ceiling fan? I was considering vented heater but I don’t want to have cool air sifting in when it’s not running, nor do I want the additional expense.
Your gas logs are most likely out of place. I would definitely stop using the unit until this is fixed. All vent-free burners and logs have to be placed in a very specific way according the manual. The logs have exact spots they need to go. If the logs are out of place they will create carbon, this is NOT supposed to be happening.
This is most likely what is causing the smell also. I would contact who installed your unit to fix this issue and place the logs in the correct spot.
This was a great video. Very helpful, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Vent free in my garage since 2010, I’ve no problems ! Same stove, burns clean and efficient
May I ask what brand you went with
Who services vent free fireplaces? Our home we recently bought has 3 vent free and we have no idea who installed these. Less than 3 years old. Original owner never turned them on. We get the smell and headaches when using them. Any suggestions?
I would search for gas fireplace shops in your area. They probably installed them and would service them. It seems like your logs could potentially be out of place or in need of service.
I guess what I wonder is if i have a crack in my 80k BTU furnace its considered dangerous and red-tagged, although most of it is still being power vented outside. But with ventless your knocking down 40k btu right into the space, will this continually set off the carbon monoxide detectors?
Ventless gas fireplaces and furnaces differ in how they handle combustion byproducts. Ventless burns 99.9% clean and produces minimal byproducts like water vapor and carbon dioxide (CO2), both of which can be safely dispersed into a room in small amounts. This is also why a max of 40k btu's can be used on a ventless burner.
The burners in ventless fireplaces are engineered to minimize harmful emissions, such as carbon monoxide (CO), and include oxygen depletion sensors to monitor air quality. These are the reasons why ventless fireplaces will not set off carbon monoxide detectors because of how efficient and clean they burn.
Furnaces burn larger quantities of fuel to heat an entire house. This process generates more byproducts, including higher levels of CO, nitrogen dioxide (NO2), and other harmful gases. This is why they require venting to avoid dangerous levels indoors.
What are the good brands?
Any American Made brand is good. Our best selling units are White Mountain Hearth but we also carry Real Fyre, Hargrove, Everwarm & American Hearth.
I have NAPOLEON MODEL 3002 -get Oder when on. How do I get rid of Oder.wife will not use vent free fireplace insert?
That is kind of a loaded question. Is it the first time you have used it in a while? It could be dust burning off the logs. Have you recently done work in the house? Or do you burn candles or have scented wall plug ins in the room?
My parents house (built in 2008) has a ventless fireplace in the living room. If that thing is on for even an hour while you’re upstairs you will be nauseous in short order. Even with a window open up there the fumes build up rapidly. You would probably have to open every single window upstairs in order to avoid fume build up, which is ridiculous if it’s cold enough outside to have the fire on in the first place. On the first floor it takes a few hours before you start feeling sick.
If this is the case then something was not right with the unit. Was the unit putting off a smell, similar to kerosene?
@@SpecialtyGasHouse No smell
Seriously doubt that's a vent free fireplace
Thank you for the valuable information. I have a question: I have a pavilion and want to install a gas vent-free fireplace. If I enclosed the pavilion with plastic curtains will I have any problem? Thank you for any help provided :-)
That shouldn't be an issue at all.
What about the moisture from.the gas?
Vent-free does create a little bit of moisture. Most houses are pretty dry in the Winter so this is actually a good thing because you won't have to run a humidifier. But that is the main reason they say not to burn them 24hrs. If you ran your vent free all day every day there is the possibility of creating a moisture issue.
@@SpecialtyGasHouse Adequate fresh air for combustion will mitigate potential moisture issues, and the buildup of mold. The principal combustion byproduct of a properly functioning gas appliance is moisture. Many vent free heater problems are caused by installing a uint whose Btu output is too large for the cubic volume of the space to be heated. For example, a 375 sq.ft space can be heated by a 10,000 Btu
heater, but many homeowners install a 20,000 or 30,000 Btu unit, assuming that
"more is better." This leads to all kinds of problems with air quality and oxygen supply.
Why does a vented fireplace require the damper be open at all times? Does the gas build up inside if you don't vent it?
A vented gas fireplace does not burn clean which is why it needs to be vented at all times. If you do not vent a vented gas fireplace, your house will not only fill up with carbon monoxide but since it is not venting any of the carbon buildup from the logs, your walls will be filled with black carbon also.
Not venting a vented gas log would be similar to burning a wood fire with the damper closed.
Can you convert a direct vented natural gas log fireplace to non-vented to improve heating the room better?
Great video and very informative. Being new to the fireplace world I have been getting different opinions from people whose opinions I respect but am still confused. I bought a home with a fireplace that is vented and am sure that it had a vented log set at one time but was changed and now has a ventless log set. I had a serviceman come to check the system and he installed a clamp on the vent so it would stay open as he said he was required to do so.
I didn't question him as I trusted his opinion, but as I do more research I realized that I am more interested in efficiency that ambiance. I have since removed the clamp and shut the vent by about 75% and have experienced no ill effects and the house is much warmer. Would you feel comfortable in closing the vent all the way? I have installed CO2 monitors as well.
If it is a ventless gas log set and the logs are placed in the correct spot, then yes, you can absolutely shut the damper completely. The only time a damper clamp is required to be installed is with a vented gas log set.
I would be more worried about CO than CO2. CO will kill you with much less warning than CO2. We had the CO monitor go off one evening in our camper when we were at a rodeo, Come to find out, my son and I (both three sheets to the wind) turned the generator so it made less noise where we were sitting outside and drinking but pointed the exhaust right under the camper.
You, my friend, are far too trusting. Fortunes are made off of consumers that don't do their due diligence.
I live in Mass. I have a Napoleon vent free and hate it,, it smells terrible, can you recommend someone in central mass to put in a good one?
I am sorry I don't know of any shops up there. I would definitely get someone that specializes in vent-free or sells them to come inspect it. Good Luck!
Hey Rod, I’m in Charleston WV. We are building rn. Our fireplace space is approx 4.5 - 5’ tall and 6 wide. Can I do a ventless that looks like real logs open in a space that large?
Absolutely. Here are a couple of brochures with different fire boxes you can go with. They have measurements of the boxes on the back.
www.empireinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/00545_092719_Breckenridge.pdf
www.empireinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/01059_030120_Vail.pdf
Great video
Very informative
What is the distance in your service area for installation and yearly service?
Hi Jeff! We service Columbus, Ohio. We will travel pretty far but we do have trip charges. Where are you located?
@@SpecialtyGasHouse I live just outside Hillsboro Ohio
We just moved into a condo that has a vent free gas fireplace. The first time we used it there was such a STRONG smell of gas for that didn't go away after like 30 minutes. Is that normal? We will def get it serviced since it's new to us but just wondering if you had any feedback on the gas smell. Thanks!
If it hasn't been used in a while it could just be the dust burning off the logs, kind of like the first time you turn on your furnace for the year. Or if you recently painted or had any strong smells near the room like a plugin or candle burning, vent-free will draw in those smells and it will mix with the gas and put off an unpleasant odor, similar to kerosene.
Thank You. That was Very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
The first thing that comes to mind is the water content of propane and or natural gas.
They do produce moisture, they are kind of like humidifiers when they are not being vented at all, which is a good thing in most homes because they are usually pretty dry in the Winter. But this is a reason I would not use them as a main heat source.
No carbon monoxide with vent-free? Why not build an open hearth in the middle of the room and place a unit on it? Not trying to be cheeky but I just don't understand how a vent-free is safe. How is this different from just turning on a propane stove in an RV without the window open? That aside, I am intrigued by your product
Vent free says in every manual that you need the window open. So they say they are vent free but in reality your window is the vent.
We have had two vent free units for years and have not had any issues. We’re thinking about installing a third unit unit in our study to help with heat management and not have to use the wood stove insert much on that side of the house.
You can cook on a natural gas stove in your house, what’s the difference with a burner in a fireplace? None, really.
Now is there still a question or air quality? Possibly. But it’s no less safe then natural gas oven or stove.
@@scubajim5975 There are laws requiring hoods with exhaust fans that vent outside over gas stoves to vent exhaust, laws requiring gas water heaters and furnaces vent exhaust to the outside, laws covering gas fireplaces that they be required to vent to the outside. Unvented propane heaters are venting the exhaust into the air you breathe.
"Now is there still a question or air quality? Possibly."
I and my asthma can guarantee you there is an issue, I lived for over a year, close to two with an unvented heater and it seriously messed with my breathing whether I had a window open or not, I had to stop using the non vented and find a vented heater at a much much higher cost so I could breathe clean air again.
I wish it was not a problem but it was and is.
any suggestions for vent free in a basement?
I use the Rinnai vent free heater in my basement and it works great! You do need power for it though. www.rinnai.us/residential/vent-free-fan-convectors
If you are looking for something that looks like a fireplace, an Empire Stove or White Mountain Hearth Vail with cabinet would work well. I added links below.
Stove - whitemountainhearth.com/products/cast-iron-stoves/
Fireplace w/ cabinet - whitemountainhearth.com/products/vent-free/vail-fireplaces/
Thanks for posting this video, very little info on ventless.
What is your opinion about a ventless gas fireplace in a bathroom?
I am thinking about a 26-30 inch . Hope you reply. Thanks
@@cghrios783 If a ventless heater or gas fireplace is going into a small room that can be closed off with doors like a bedroom or bathroom, the max BTU's that can be used is 10k. So as long as it is a 10k BTU unit vent free would work well and heat the bathroom nicely.
What brands are recommended?
Any American made brand should work well. We sell White Mountain Hearth, Real Fyre, Hargrove, Everwarm and American Hearth. White Mountain Hearth is our #1 seller.
Hey Rob! Is there any way I could contact you over the phone?
Thanks for the Info...
The propane company rep. just came out to look at my Fireplace for a vent free unit and he told me that I would have lines on my ceiling and that the color of the paint on my fireplace mantel would change from white to yellow.
Gas lines on the ceiling? Or colored lines? There should be neither. However, since vent-free puts out a lot of heat, you do have to make sure your mantel is a certain distance above the opening of the fireplace. Sometimes a hood may be needed if the mantel is really close. A hood would help direct the heat away from the mantel to prevent discoloring or the paint from bubbling up. This tends to only happen when you have a white mantel.
Potential problems with vent free heaters: Inadequate fresh air for proper combustion. Oversized heater for a given space. Excessive moisture as a combustion byproduct can cause mold. Unpleasant odors caused by substances in the indoor air (cat litter boxes, incense, cooking odors, paint, perfume, aerosol products, etc.) which get burned by the ventless heater. Almost all vent free heaters are made in China, and most of them are junk. To my knowledge, only Empire Comfort Systems makes vent free heaters manufactured in the U.S., but Williams may also make vent free heaters assembled in the U.S.
Do your homework. Follow installation instructions carefully. Use approved supply piping for the installation (black iron or soft copper tubing), and install a sediment trap and a gas shutoff valve in the supply line,
below the heater. Observe safe clearances from heater to floor, walls, and ceiling.
Soap test and pressure test the gas supply line and fittings, after installation. Install a good carbon
monoxide detector in the same room as your vent free heater. Vent free heaters with integral bulb type thermostats are more efficient than manual control heaters. Cut no corners. Do the installation by the book, or hire a licensed gas technician to do the work.
Hi Jay, ALL of the vent-free we sell is manufactured and distributed in the U.S. That includes Empire (White Mountain Hearth), Peterson (Real Fyre), Hargrove, American Hearth & Everwarm.
You are correct about the smell that can come from VOCs that are in the air. That is why we recommend not having any strong-smelling candles or plug-ins in the room with vent-free on. When painting the house it is also best to wait until the fresh paint smell goes away before operating the vent-free. It is nothing harmful it just puts off an unpleasant smell after mixing with the gas.
We always prefer professional installation to ensure the unit will operate safely and without issues. When you install an American-Made vent-free product correctly, they are incredibly efficient and will provide you plenty of heat without spending an arm and a leg on your fireplace & utility bill!
Cool thx
When I used to install gas logs, I always told people get a carbon monoxide detector for each level of your house. Never had a call back.
Yep! Any time a gas appliance is installed in a home it is smart to get a carbon monixide detector. But it should never go off with vent-free as long as it was installed correctly.
@ I made damn skippy it was installed right.
I keep my damper open a little bit.
Perfectly fine to do!
both because i like an open fire
After reading all these comments I’m going electric.
It's important to choose what's best for your personal situation and comfort, but be sure to watch the entire video to stay fully informed!
I have over 35 years of electrical experience with state and federal cards. A few years back, I saw our power supply house had installed electronic meters on our house and business 😮😢 they can be compromised, after building our new 2000 squ.ft.pole barn home with 10 ft. ceiling height our Oct. to Nov. electric bill had tripled over $300, while building our new home I had installed gas lines to every appliance area if needed, in Feb 2021 I installed Pleasant Hearth propane fire place 33,000 BTU MADE IN AMERICA , propane cook stove , water heater , mr. heater propane 18,000 btu (probably China made) in garage and installed gas lines to flat iron griddle in my garage with range hood don't forget back splash 😂 ,I burn around 700 gal. per year ,this year in July I paid $1.49 per gallon ,I haven't used my furnace only to circulate heat using blower only, no smells,moisture just yearly cleaning on heaters and they're energy efficient.
Very dangerous! That's why they are allowed to sell them. 🙄
Would be much better if you didn’t have other people talking over you in the background.
It gets busy in the shop during fireplace season!
Vent free is illegal in California.
Why do they need it in California
So is everything else in California 😂
People talking in the background was really distracting
There is no way around it. Vent free is bad. NO2 is going directly into your house it also smells bad. Some states don't even want gas stoves due to its link to asthma. I personally think gas is the best for cooking but there is also an exhaust fan, unlike a vent free fireplace which is also using a lot more gas than a cooking stove.
This is not completely true. One of the main reasons why an exhaust fan is needed on a gas stove and not with a vent-free fireplace is when you cook you produce additional pollutants, such as grease, smoke, and odors, which can combine with the byproducts of combustion to reduce indoor air quality. This does not happen when burning gas fireplaces unless you are introducing VOC's into the air like strong smelling candles, air fresheners or have recently done house work like painting.
Gas stoves have much higher combined BTU's than a vent-free fireplace. Vent-free Fireplaces range from 10,000-40,000 BTU's. Each burner on a gas stove averages 13,000BTU's. So a gas stove can reach much higher levels of gas usage which is another reason why a exhaust fan is needed.
O-H
I-O!
It’s called carbon monoxide.
I feel you weren't very forthcoming about the downsides of vent free. ,hmmmmm....like hiding
I would say the biggest downside, which is sometimes a good thing, is the moisture they produce. They are kind of like humidifiers when they are not being vented at all, which is a positive in most homes because they are usually pretty dry in the Winter. But this is a reason I would not use them as a main heat source. If they are being used for a few hours here and there you would not see any side effects of this.
We sell every type of gas fireplace so we try to not be bias towards any of them. We just like to explain the difference and let the customer pick out the best product for their circumstance.
Absolutely stupid idea. Never go ventless.
Why is that? Did you watch the video?
Honest cool guy tells total truth