Eddie as far as content ideas I for one would love to see you run through a CAN setup with klipper. I am working my way through some Mellow boards now and there is a dearth of good documentation. Your thoughtful, concise content would be a welcome addition.
I appreciate your kind words! I do have a draft video together (I put it together earlier when the pull request was not merged yet)--I plan on updating that soon hopefully!.
while there are 17 wires, you can have several items (two fans, hot end, and probe) share a common VCC wire. Also the end stop, probe, and thermistor share a common ground. This reduces the wiring from 17 to 13 in total. Still quite a few wires, but not as bad as first glance. Also even with the CAN board you STILL need to crimp connectors at the toolhead, that does NOT go away!
You can also use OpenOCD on a Pi to do SWD flashing (from Pi GPIO) of the STM chip, or in a pinch UART and stm32flasher with the boot0 jumper and pulling the resistor that makes the uart half duplex for the TMC2209. ST-Link is by far the easiest option if not in a hurry though.
A coworker of mine designed and manufactured a breakout board with a similar intent just a couple weeks ago. He toyed with adding an onboard driver but ultimately ended up with just an atmega 328(arduino), adxl and mosfets built in he's using serial so that all you need to run is an off the shelf USB and a 24v power/gnd. I'm pushing him to release the designs
Thanks for the video! This is a great resource I haven't had time to come back and talk about myself! Its been a long while since they've been available, it took me a while to choose a manufacturer instead of getting small batches made from a prototype house. I'm hoping to have an answer on preorder and quantity this week, and will be looking to get batches sent to vendors worldwide so its easier to order in everyone's local countries. I appreciate everyone's patience on getting more done, and I'm also sorry about the cost. Unfortunately, with both part availability (price on *just* the MCU went from ~$.5 to over $14!) and tariffs for importing, I couldn't provide a better price point. If the demand is sufficiently large and I can order large quantities, I'm hoping to drive prices down to ~60 for preorders including a connector kit.
Looking forward to buying one of these when I can. I was looking to right at the beginning of the pandemic in the "yeah, 1 or 2 more months" stage. :/ $60 isn't unreasonable, especially for a premium printer like a Voron. The StealthBurner adds another compelling reason to use this board - not having to run another set of wires for LED serial comms. :) However, I'm not seeing a nice clean way to mount a board in that toolhead. Hopefully somebody can show me the way before I build one. I'm sure you're aware, but there seems to be more availability if you move up a bit in capability and switch vendors. For example Microchip's M4. Unfortunately, it's still a lot of work for you developing and selling them and the supply chain is fickle. :( Best of luck and thank you so much for the contribution and showing us the way!
Great news. Would you have a list of vendors somewhere so we can all reach-out to them and pre-order. Not sure where to look for it at the moment (I'm in UK).
If you want a really stable connection, make sure you have 120 Ohm cables! Together with the 120 Ohm terminations it will look like an infinitely long wire, from an RF point of view, eliminating reflections. This should make it absolutely no problem using a 500k bitrate. There is good videos about it in TH-cam.
Agreed! I know it's best to have it, but realistically to add one to this board you have to 1. Have a surface mount resistor on hand and know how/where to solder it 2. Double crimp a resistor with the data connection wires on the molex connector 3. Hack mount a resistor hanging off the board I did the last one with my first board, but in general don't recommend that to the average user. "2" is probably the safest and best option, assuming you have a 120ohm resistor on hand with really thin leads so you can still get the terminal properly crimped. In general--my approach is if there's a simple way that will work for 95% of cases without the need to solder--that's probably the correct path for most people. I will touch on this some though and explain the options for a follow up video!
@@m.sierra5258 yes! I haven’t looked yet at the PCB layout, but hopefully if it’s auto populated and you need to remove one (if you have many boards) if would be in a place that you could knock it off with the tip of a soldering iron
That's pretty cool if one ever comes up that fits the orbiter and Stealthburner, I'd be interested. Still quite a bit less wires than the other toolheads, so bravo.
@@eddietheengineer awesome . I just put a toolhead on my stealth/Galileo, but I've got comments on the constant use of the JST-XH connectors forcing folks to crimp., vs using a screw style like you are using on the bottom right of your board. same pitch 2.54mm, -40-100+c temp rating, can get them from 10amps to 6amps and it removes the crimping all together (yes, one would need furrels but man those are easy!). Obviously one could go further and do screw-less clamps, that would make installation and swaps even easier. I just spent hours crimping today and it's not enjoyable, some wires are just too small and you end up breaking them, other wires (hotend) are too thick and don't fit.. Love to see you all start moving away from these tiny connectors that require crimping :) Your board, only the bottom 2 would have to be adjusted to allow the screw type terminals to be used (but appears you are already running out of real estate, but you could run 2 back to back in the same space as the.2 side by sides there. But obviously the through holes would have to be run horizontal vs vertical. Also if you have a jumper to power via the USB, surprised you can't have a jumper or other to select 5 volt for LEDs or set the fan ports individually. Cool stuff... but man, these JSTs pissed me off today :)
"I have omitted the 120 Ohm resistor on the toolhead" - "I had to turn down CAN bitrate to 250k for stability" ... Maybe there is a connection between those two things? Just maybe?
Great video! I'd have loved to have built my Voron with a toolhead board. As it is, I have some small protoboards to break-out silicone ribbon cables to individual JST connectors. I wonder if the parts are mostly available? Might be a fun project, even with what looks to be 0402 size components.. This seems like a great solution and the wave of the future! It's amazing how quickly the wire count adds up..
Thanks! I'm not sure about component availability for all of the components; the one I've heard regularly having supply issues is the STM32F103 micro that's used.
hi Eddie, great video. Thanks for sharing. Have you seen the BIQU Hermit Crab CAN Kits? I like the USB-C idea. Mine just arrived a few days ago. I will consult you video again. ;)
HI Eddie, great vid. Can you provide a wiring diagram of how you have wired up your XY and probe endstops on the Huvudv0.61 please. I'm confused on how to wire them up.
Very interesting device, how's extruder driver feels after long prints? I noticed it doesn't have heatsink. Interesting to see if this board requires additional cooling when it run in enclosed(+60C) printer.
That's a great question and one I've done some testing on--I haven't been able to get the TMC2209 to have over temp warnings in all the prints I've done with Huvud V0.50 a year ago. I have an enclosed printer with a layer of Reflectix insulation around it, with temps around the toolhead in the 65-75C range
The formula to calculate heat dissipation is [I² × RDS(ON)] × (VOUT/VIN) so by using 12V you don't heat the mosfet more, nevertheless, greate video good job.
Thanks for the formula! In this case, I am assuming a constant heater wattage between both input voltages (say 40W), which would make the current 2x higher for the 12V vs 24V input. I think that would mean that the heat dissipation for the mosfet would be 2^2 higher based on this equation? I think the Vout/Vin would be close to 1 in either voltage case?
@@eddietheengineer a 12V heater I² is not equal to 24V heaters I² if same wattage. in the formula if V differ I² can't be same or result can't be same. ommit vout/vin division if you don't want to calculate resistive thermal dissipation. sorry for my bad english i hope it makes sense.
Looks like someone beat me to it - but can 0.61 handle StealthBurner? I'm thinking the 5V for the end-stop and extra 2 pins, means we can do probe, ERCF, and LEDs? Would love to watch a full walkthrough of installing in a SB config. Thanks again for sharing. Can't wait for more of the Huvud github to be updated. Also - does lowering the number of wires in the drag chains improve print quality at all? (Always looking for ways to get higher quality prints)
Probably not, but why run cable chains at all? I run a Huvud on a Switchwire with an umbilical setup, and I'm going to do the same with the new Huvud I just managed to snag for my 2.4.
Sadly these boards are generally unobtanium. I got a 0.5 a year ago before the chip shortage was in full swing. I just went back to Lukes Lab and I see he has the 0.61 listed, but it’s sold out. Hopefully more become available because I’d like to upgrade the 0.5 on my switchwire, and add one to my 2.4.
Thankfully I should have some more soon - it took me a while to set up manufacturing contacts, and with a larger order size, I should be able to drop the price especially for preorder, and even offer bulk purchasing!
@@LukesLaboratory Hopefully I can snag one before they sell out. I love the 0.5 I got from you, but I want the extra feature on the 0.61, especially 5V and a spare pin to run neopixels. Adxl345 is also really nice.
CANBUS is an extreme robust protocol when both ends are terminated with a 120ohm resistors otherwise the integrity of the signal will be heavily degraded.
@@abeowitz you can run the usb cable through the molex, you just need to set a jumper or something correctly. Bltouch should work off it too, don't need extra wires.
Are you saying it can communicate over serial if you don't wish to use the CAN bus? I don't see any mention of this. It looks like you can flash the huvud over USB if a boot jumper is set but that's all I can find.
@@JJFX- I'm saying that you can route the usb through the molex if you cut 2 traces and solder 2 pads. You don't need to use canbus. I have one of those 0.61 boards.
What such boards doing on a toolhead? I`m not about this one. This one is wiring simplification option. But the general ones that powered by 16 pins from motherboard. Can you omit them. Or there are some logic and it's not just connectivity bridge.
Hi Eddie, I was wondering if there was a way to chat with you about a couple of your videos. We have been looking closely at several of the ones in regards to stepper motors, the CoreXY movement, and belt tensioning. We has some questions on the next steps for these…
I only have data from my printer where it’s worked up to 65-75C chamber temp-I believe a lot of components are getting close to their rated temps at that point. It’s worth doing testing and understanding how much margin you’d have in your printer application!
The reason you're having an issue at 500k is because you're not using a 120 resistor on both sides. Add the missing resistor and the higher speed will work.
Unrelated, but also not: I don’t like using USB to connect things like screens/sensors to my RPi. *gasp!* I do however like using UART. Pi3s only have one (?) UART available, but the Pi4 has four (?) I think? For Pi3 users, are there options available in Klipper to multiplex UARTs? Or use an UART expander? If that was a thing, then with a revision the ever-capable, handy-dandy Klipper Expander could handle more than just MOSFETs...
If you do serial-over-USB, in theory the Linux kernel driver could do DMA transfers or more efficient transfers of data to/from the USB controller as compared to character-at-a-time interrupts for the UART peripherals.
Great question! I am using the Stealthburner fan assembly with Clockwork 1 and Galileo now; once Clockwork 2 is released officially I'll make a Huvud mount for it! On Neopixels--there technically is 5V and GND now you could pull off the endstops, but the signal would be 3.3V. I think there may be a way to make it work with a sacrificial neopixel but I don't have a lot of experience with neopixels yet. Worst case, you run 3 wires dedicated for the neopixels!
I have been thinking of why not doing a toolhead controller but like a klipper expander, using an RP2040 or a simple 8 bit microcontroller and simply running 2 signals for the usb, 1 5v, 1 24V and 1 GND 5 wires in total, I know that some long usb wires need some shielding but It would be interesting to try
You'd need motion-rated twisted pair cable to carry USB. (Really, for CANBUS, it ought to be twisted-pair too, but it's only running at 500 kilobits/sec..) No need for 5V; for 10 cents you just regulate down from the 24V supply with an LDO regulator device.
@@lmamakos oh right I see, the idea was mainly couse Klipper already supports pretty well usb protocol and microcontrollers with USB integration are pretty common even in this shortage, like Atmega32U4 but I'm not sure
I'm sure it can do multiple axis, the only reason it would be an issue is if you're running something like a bed slinger since the accelerometer would need to be moved. Both X and Y can be measured from the tool head on a coreXY printer.
Will that 5 pin endstop connector finally support bltouch on the huvud board? It should, but I think I would need to combine the 2 ground wires from the bltouch into the single endstop ground pin.
If you wanted, you could pull 24V off the board someplace and the use a bat85 diode (similar to how we wire the probe with some main control boards) to protect the MCU
I found out the painful way what not motion rated cables mean. Will keep this in upgrade option in mind if any other wires fail. Then it will probably worth the time to rip out the wiring loom for this to trade some mechanical / electrical complexity for software complexity.
Please replace the cables now! I have helped replace wiring on a friend’s printer that did not use motion rated wiring…some wires shorted out/overheated/melted the ABS parts and set off the fire alarm.
@@eddietheengineer Nothing to worry about. I already rebuild my wiring loom. Been just very sad to find out that there is an easier option, compared to stuffing the cable chains full of wires. After i already put in the work. Now i got the very flexible copper silicone wires, instead of the aluminum wires that came with my kit. Also seen people running some flat ribbon cables with no drag chains. But using 3 lanes for your heater cartridge seems a bit unsafe compared to ruining some thicker gauge 24V wires.
Agreed--I have seen the FRC option but haven't really looked in depth, using silicone or PTFE wires still seems the best route to go, at least until I've seen good data for the safety of the FRC option.
Are you able to run the board over the micro USB cable instead of can? As you said alot, maybe not the right or robust way, but it would be a very easy way to get started.
I don’t know if you can directly run it through the microusb port but I think you can run the usb data wires to the 4 pin connector and then cut/adjust traces
I was looking into reworking this board to use a rp2040 since it is available. I thought I would not see this in the next 6 months since the stm is not to be found.
Thanks for the video and the effort! Concerning the board, am I right that no spare pins (assuming a bl touch is used) are left for controlling pwm fans (the 4 pin fans which provides tacho and accept pwm input)? I don't see any spare connector.
You're correct! There aren't any connectors for 4 pin fans. I'm not sure if you could use the debug pins for the pwm/tach signals or if they need to be 24V?
@@eddietheengineer pwm and tacho are TTL, any free pin would work bitti don't see any spare pin available on the board, so I guess the only way is to use the extra ones from the endstop
Is it possible to have multiple canbus tool heads connected? Like dual extruder or even 4 toolhead with an automatic tool changer. I was researching about it but cannot fin any example of at least a dual head setup
@@IvanGOrtolan yes! it is best to have the CAN devices in a "chain". I have mine set up so that each toolhead is the "termination point" and then the CAN adapter is at the center
Yes! You can connect multiple CAN boards to the same bus, that’s what I do for IDEX. I think at $25/each or less it would be interesting to put a board per stepper, but at $65 it’s a bit harder to justify
@@eddietheengineer so a full printer would need xyze, that's 4x$25=$100 ... As much as this is intriguing for the e, it feels a bit excessive for xyz. But interesting nonetheless.
@@gordonbroom5442 I’d love to see a Huvud style board with minimal components; say 2209, micro, and maybe a stepper encoder and temp sensor specifically for use with motion stepper motors!
But why CAN and not just simply use a micro controller with USB interface and write drivers for klipper. Plug directly into the USB line ercf easyboard does.
This is one thing I'm going to try. AFAIK there's solder pads on the reverse of the board for USB data so it's not necessary to use the Micro USB socket.
The original idea before the chip shortage was to use one of these boards on X and Y motors as well as the toolhead. You could run only 4 wires up to a breakout board on the gantry that would then connect to the X and Y motors as well as the toolhead. You could approximate this by running a USB cable to the gantry and using a USB hub, but it would be much larger and less elegant than using CAN. If you're only using a board on the toolhead, USB is probably preferred over CAN, especially since the newer versions of the board support USB using the Molex connector. This is an early version of the distribution board. github.com/bondus/KlipperToolboard/blob/master/doc/PowerCanDist.jpg
Do the crystals have to match? I could only find 12mhz RS485 CAN hats. Video was not definitive about which one to use. I’m guessing 8mhz but not sure.
That's a good question, the crystal on the Huvud doesn't have to match the crystal on the CAN hat. The Huvud has an 8Mhz crystal (and you need to set it to 8Mhz in the make menuconfig). If your Waveshare is 12Mhz, then that's fine! Just set your config.txt to: dtoverlay=mcp2515-can0,oscillator=12000000,interrupt=25,spimaxfrequency=2000000
Why isn’t there a fuse after the MOSFET? The fuse would prevent a fire if/when MOSFET fails, right? Seams like a no-brainer to me. Am I missing something?
Please, take a course for editing, storytelling and photo editing! Your content is gold! But there are some limiting factors that limit the reachability of your content
Eddie, do you have a mount for this board published anywhere? I designed a mount I've been using on my Switchwire that uses the hartk mount points on the side of the CW1, but I'd like to transition my 2.4 over to CW2 and I'm not sure how I can make that work with the Huvud.
@@eddietheengineer I would love to see your mounts. I just received a v0.61 Huvud and I removed all the wiring from my 2.4 in preparation to install it. I can use my existing mount on the CW1 that's still in that printer, but I'm curious to see other ideas.
Is it possible to canbus chain multiple devices together? like a proper canbus or is it just a single end to end solution?! (like why not run all motors in a printer with these)
@@FrozenHaxor can bus is a 2 wire protocol + 2 wire for power - means you can run not only motor, but heat cartridge, sensor, other relays, servos etc off the same chain.. and these cards are readily available - and easy to misuse - i mean adapt till other things than plastic extrusion. :)
@@roughedge-machineworks It only makes sense for toolhead in 3D Printer application, other motors are spread apart and it's easier to route motor wires directly.
@@FrozenHaxor also makes sense to daisychain toolhead boards in a robotic arm, and offload main processor of dealing with position data, stepper and limit switches.. Soarry but you are a tad bit narrow minded i suppose to grasp they why of my original question.. it doesnt relate to 3D printing.
@@roughedge-machineworks Then why post under a video related purely to 3D printing? Your original question also mentioned only a 3D printer. You contradict yourself.
Hello Daniel! Thanks to @Tedlasman's response it looks like the mosfet is rated for 6A so you should be able to run 12V and a lower powered hotend heater. I'd use a 40W heater (or even a 30W if you can find one) at 12V, I know that sounds excessive but safety is really important. In my case, I also run these enclosed in a hot chamber so I expect the component rating to be lower than it is at normal ambients. The ultimate solution for a toolhead board like this is to have a relay or switch that allows all power to the toolhead board to be shut off in case of a thermal runaway--that would be the extra layer of protection that would make me feel safe running 12V. You can do this with Klipper using the Moonraker [power] plugin and a relay!
@@eddietheengineer Thanks, looks like this are hard to get hold of, do you know any other breakout board? I thought of just buying another printers breakout board. I have a wanhao i3 v2.1. But I guess I need to check the mosfet on the board to find out of it can even handle 12v.
Are there still limitations in klipper with the endstops? I thought about using a similar board a while ago, but there were some limitations with the endstops wich kept me from changing over on my Printer.
There are not limitations! The cross MCU homing code is merged into the main Klipper code. I use the probe and X endstop routed through my toolhead board
Cable chains and a decent wiring harness for a Voron 2.4 or Trident will run you a bare minimum of $100. With the Huvud you still need to run wires for the A/B motors, but even at $65 this board is a net cost savings. It might not be so attractive if you're using it on a different type of printer.
Always awesome! Got learned a lot electronic info as a mechanical based person.
Eddie as far as content ideas I for one would love to see you run through a CAN setup with klipper. I am working my way through some Mellow boards now and there is a dearth of good documentation. Your thoughtful, concise content would be a welcome addition.
I appreciate your kind words! I do have a draft video together (I put it together earlier when the pull request was not merged yet)--I plan on updating that soon hopefully!.
while there are 17 wires, you can have several items (two fans, hot end, and probe) share a common VCC wire. Also the end stop, probe, and thermistor share a common ground. This reduces the wiring from 17 to 13 in total. Still quite a few wires, but not as bad as first glance. Also even with the CAN board you STILL need to crimp connectors at the toolhead, that does NOT go away!
This is great. You need a 2nd board for all the rest of the steppers but definitely looks like it simplifies things.
Agreed! It's especially useful with the IDEX printers I'm working on--wiring would be a mess otherwise!
You can also use OpenOCD on a Pi to do SWD flashing (from Pi GPIO) of the STM chip, or in a pinch UART and stm32flasher with the boot0 jumper and pulling the resistor that makes the uart half duplex for the TMC2209. ST-Link is by far the easiest option if not in a hurry though.
A coworker of mine designed and manufactured a breakout board with a similar intent just a couple weeks ago. He toyed with adding an onboard driver but ultimately ended up with just an atmega 328(arduino), adxl and mosfets built in he's using serial so that all you need to run is an off the shelf USB and a 24v power/gnd. I'm pushing him to release the designs
Pretty sure we can run the same on this, 24v/G and usb micro to pi
Thanks for the video! This is a great resource I haven't had time to come back and talk about myself!
Its been a long while since they've been available, it took me a while to choose a manufacturer instead of getting small batches made from a prototype house.
I'm hoping to have an answer on preorder and quantity this week, and will be looking to get batches sent to vendors worldwide so its easier to order in everyone's local countries.
I appreciate everyone's patience on getting more done, and I'm also sorry about the cost. Unfortunately, with both part availability (price on *just* the MCU went from ~$.5 to over $14!) and tariffs for importing, I couldn't provide a better price point. If the demand is sufficiently large and I can order large quantities, I'm hoping to drive prices down to ~60 for preorders including a connector kit.
Looking forward to buying one of these when I can. I was looking to right at the beginning of the pandemic in the "yeah, 1 or 2 more months" stage. :/ $60 isn't unreasonable, especially for a premium printer like a Voron. The StealthBurner adds another compelling reason to use this board - not having to run another set of wires for LED serial comms. :) However, I'm not seeing a nice clean way to mount a board in that toolhead. Hopefully somebody can show me the way before I build one. I'm sure you're aware, but there seems to be more availability if you move up a bit in capability and switch vendors. For example Microchip's M4. Unfortunately, it's still a lot of work for you developing and selling them and the supply chain is fickle. :(
Best of luck and thank you so much for the contribution and showing us the way!
Great news. Would you have a list of vendors somewhere so we can all reach-out to them and pre-order. Not sure where to look for it at the moment (I'm in UK).
@@alexdubois6585 printyplease has 100pcs of my units coming to them. Otherwise my preorder is up.
Mmmh. That video thumbnail pun - A+. (I’m sure the content of the video reflects this as well.)
Thank you for doing this video. Was wondering why something like this didn't exist.
If you want a really stable connection, make sure you have 120 Ohm cables! Together with the 120 Ohm terminations it will look like an infinitely long wire, from an RF point of view, eliminating reflections. This should make it absolutely no problem using a 500k bitrate.
There is good videos about it in TH-cam.
Agreed! I know it's best to have it, but realistically to add one to this board you have to
1. Have a surface mount resistor on hand and know how/where to solder it
2. Double crimp a resistor with the data connection wires on the molex connector
3. Hack mount a resistor hanging off the board
I did the last one with my first board, but in general don't recommend that to the average user. "2" is probably the safest and best option, assuming you have a 120ohm resistor on hand with really thin leads so you can still get the terminal properly crimped.
In general--my approach is if there's a simple way that will work for 95% of cases without the need to solder--that's probably the correct path for most people. I will touch on this some though and explain the options for a follow up video!
@@eddietheengineer Agree. Well, I hope the new extruder board has them built in ;)
@@m.sierra5258 yes! I haven’t looked yet at the PCB layout, but hopefully if it’s auto populated and you need to remove one (if you have many boards) if would be in a place that you could knock it off with the tip of a soldering iron
"There is good videos about it in TH-cam." There are over a billion videos on TH-cam. Could you be more specific?
That's pretty cool if one ever comes up that fits the orbiter and Stealthburner, I'd be interested. Still quite a bit less wires than the other toolheads, so bravo.
I have a mount for Clockwork 1 and Galileo, and will make a CW2 mount once the CAD files are released!
@@eddietheengineer awesome . I just put a toolhead on my stealth/Galileo, but I've got comments on the constant use of the JST-XH connectors forcing folks to crimp., vs using a screw style like you are using on the bottom right of your board. same pitch 2.54mm, -40-100+c temp rating, can get them from 10amps to 6amps and it removes the crimping all together (yes, one would need furrels but man those are easy!). Obviously one could go further and do screw-less clamps, that would make installation and swaps even easier. I just spent hours crimping today and it's not enjoyable, some wires are just too small and you end up breaking them, other wires (hotend) are too thick and don't fit.. Love to see you all start moving away from these tiny connectors that require crimping :) Your board, only the bottom 2 would have to be adjusted to allow the screw type terminals to be used (but appears you are already running out of real estate, but you could run 2 back to back in the same space as the.2 side by sides there. But obviously the through holes would have to be run horizontal vs vertical. Also if you have a jumper to power via the USB, surprised you can't have a jumper or other to select 5 volt for LEDs or set the fan ports individually. Cool stuff... but man, these JSTs pissed me off today :)
Thank you for this really well done overview.
Yay! Havent even watched and I know Im gonna love it. Thanks Eddie! I'm crimping up connectors for a Huvud right now.
This is awesome, it's like you anticipated all my questions after our last conversation, and made a video about it. You rock!
you make such a usefull content. i like the techinical detail you make, with grapsh and estadistic. Thank you for your work on this field.
"I have omitted the 120 Ohm resistor on the toolhead" - "I had to turn down CAN bitrate to 250k for stability"
... Maybe there is a connection between those two things? Just maybe?
Been on my todo list to look into those boards. Thanks for the video
Is a CanBus overkill ? Using can bus to open/close a car window seems even more overkill... so no.
Just set this up using the BIQU Hermit Crab. I'm a big fan of it. It uses CANBUS and let you run only 1 cable to the toolhead which is awesome.
Don't the hermit need 1 usb-c to the toolboard + 2 power wires?
EXCELLENT TIME SAVING INFO. Thank you very much.
Great intro to get me started, thanks
Great video! I'd have loved to have built my Voron with a toolhead board. As it is, I have some small protoboards to break-out silicone ribbon cables to individual JST connectors. I wonder if the parts are mostly available? Might be a fun project, even with what looks to be 0402 size components.. This seems like a great solution and the wave of the future! It's amazing how quickly the wire count adds up..
Thanks! I'm not sure about component availability for all of the components; the one I've heard regularly having supply issues is the STM32F103 micro that's used.
I absolutly love the wirering part , but i dislike most other stuff lol
how connect CAN servo motor to 3D printer mainboard? Klipper config?
So wait, you sourced and STM32F103? How? Where?!??
hah! I did not, someone else did
Am I the only one who thinks the wiring is the fun part? Routing, dressing, labels, connectors. Put on some tunes and go to town!
I need to find someone like you that can come over and wire up my printers :)
hi Eddie, great video. Thanks for sharing. Have you seen the BIQU Hermit Crab CAN Kits? I like the USB-C idea. Mine just arrived a few days ago. I will consult you video again. ;)
I haven’t seen that before, but I’ll check it out!
Hi, could this be done with a Orange Pi 3lts? Connecting the can hat
HI Eddie, great vid. Can you provide a wiring diagram of how you have wired up your XY and probe endstops on the Huvudv0.61 please. I'm confused on how to wire them up.
Very interesting device, how's extruder driver feels after long prints? I noticed it doesn't have heatsink. Interesting to see if this board requires additional cooling when it run in enclosed(+60C) printer.
That's a great question and one I've done some testing on--I haven't been able to get the TMC2209 to have over temp warnings in all the prints I've done with Huvud V0.50 a year ago. I have an enclosed printer with a layer of Reflectix insulation around it, with temps around the toolhead in the 65-75C range
Man, that is a tiny baby board...lol. gotta love digital data signals vs analog "imma throw some volts directly at it" :D
WTB! Would Neo pixel RGBs work with that?
I don't have a clear idea of how you could do it yet--but I'm sure someone will try!
The formula to calculate heat dissipation is [I² × RDS(ON)] × (VOUT/VIN) so by using 12V you don't heat the mosfet more, nevertheless, greate video good job.
Thanks for the formula! In this case, I am assuming a constant heater wattage between both input voltages (say 40W), which would make the current 2x higher for the 12V vs 24V input. I think that would mean that the heat dissipation for the mosfet would be 2^2 higher based on this equation? I think the Vout/Vin would be close to 1 in either voltage case?
@@eddietheengineer a 12V heater I² is not equal to 24V heaters I² if same wattage. in the formula if V differ I² can't be same or result can't be same. ommit vout/vin division if you don't want to calculate resistive thermal dissipation. sorry for my bad english i hope it makes sense.
Looks like someone beat me to it - but can 0.61 handle StealthBurner? I'm thinking the 5V for the end-stop and extra 2 pins, means we can do probe, ERCF, and LEDs? Would love to watch a full walkthrough of installing in a SB config. Thanks again for sharing. Can't wait for more of the Huvud github to be updated.
Also - does lowering the number of wires in the drag chains improve print quality at all? (Always looking for ways to get higher quality prints)
Probably not, but why run cable chains at all? I run a Huvud on a Switchwire with an umbilical setup, and I'm going to do the same with the new Huvud I just managed to snag for my 2.4.
it has to go to the Pi? It can not use the Canbus on the 3d printer board?
Can connect a Bltouch probe with this can? 5 wires?
Sadly these boards are generally unobtanium. I got a 0.5 a year ago before the chip shortage was in full swing. I just went back to Lukes Lab and I see he has the 0.61 listed, but it’s sold out. Hopefully more become available because I’d like to upgrade the 0.5 on my switchwire, and add one to my 2.4.
Thankfully I should have some more soon - it took me a while to set up manufacturing contacts, and with a larger order size, I should be able to drop the price especially for preorder, and even offer bulk purchasing!
@@LukesLaboratory Hopefully I can snag one before they sell out. I love the 0.5 I got from you, but I want the extra feature on the 0.61, especially 5V and a spare pin to run neopixels. Adxl345 is also really nice.
@@LukesLaboratory Do you have a link to page so I can preorder?
@@LukesLaboratory thanks for working on getting these in stock.
Can you do a video on the USB option?
CANBUS is an extreme robust protocol when both ends are terminated with a 120ohm resistors otherwise the integrity of the signal will be heavily degraded.
so this thing can replace the skr e3 mini in the v0?
Great vid as always
the newest board does can or usb through the molex. doesn't necessarily need a hat
@@abeowitz you can run the usb cable through the molex, you just need to set a jumper or something correctly.
Bltouch should work off it too, don't need extra wires.
Are you saying it can communicate over serial if you don't wish to use the CAN bus? I don't see any mention of this. It looks like you can flash the huvud over USB if a boot jumper is set but that's all I can find.
@@JJFX- I'm saying that you can route the usb through the molex if you cut 2 traces and solder 2 pads.
You don't need to use canbus.
I have one of those 0.61 boards.
What such boards doing on a toolhead? I`m not about this one. This one is wiring simplification option. But the general ones that powered by 16 pins from motherboard. Can you omit them. Or there are some logic and it's not just connectivity bridge.
Hi Eddie, I was wondering if there was a way to chat with you about a couple of your videos. We have been looking closely at several of the ones in regards to stepper motors, the CoreXY movement, and belt tensioning. We has some questions on the next steps for these…
Definitely! Feel free to reach out to me at eddietheengr@gmail.com
Skipping the pull-up or pull-down resistors would be the reason that you had issues with 500,000 and not 250,000.
Is there a temp rating on this board? We are looking at 80C chamber rated connections, components and cables for the Valkyrie
I only have data from my printer where it’s worked up to 65-75C chamber temp-I believe a lot of components are getting close to their rated temps at that point. It’s worth doing testing and understanding how much margin you’d have in your printer application!
This is so damn innovative and will find into 3d printing as standard soon i guess....wish i could have one already yet to test out! :)
Keep an eye out at Luke's Lab! He should have some available in the next few months.
Thanks for the awesome video, may i ask have you try Mellow fly SHT 36 tool headboard? thanks
Yes! I have one, I just need to find time to create the tutorial!
@@eddietheengineer waiting for your new great video
I would love to have that! Shut up and take my money!!! 😅
Thx for sharing such a great video as usual! KUDO!
Thanks!
The reason you're having an issue at 500k is because you're not using a 120 resistor on both sides. Add the missing resistor and the higher speed will work.
Unrelated, but also not: I don’t like using USB to connect things like screens/sensors to my RPi. *gasp!* I do however like using UART. Pi3s only have one (?) UART available, but the Pi4 has four (?) I think? For Pi3 users, are there options available in Klipper to multiplex UARTs? Or use an UART expander? If that was a thing, then with a revision the ever-capable, handy-dandy Klipper Expander could handle more than just MOSFETs...
If you do serial-over-USB, in theory the Linux kernel driver could do DMA transfers or more efficient transfers of data to/from the USB controller as compared to character-at-a-time interrupts for the UART peripherals.
also as for the prsa type why do not add one more motor ? also what about the bl touch i has got 5 wires) the idea is good) but need to work on)
Where do you mount the board on the new stealthburner? And would be nice to have support for the neopixels! 👍🏻
Great question! I am using the Stealthburner fan assembly with Clockwork 1 and Galileo now; once Clockwork 2 is released officially I'll make a Huvud mount for it!
On Neopixels--there technically is 5V and GND now you could pull off the endstops, but the signal would be 3.3V. I think there may be a way to make it work with a sacrificial neopixel but I don't have a lot of experience with neopixels yet. Worst case, you run 3 wires dedicated for the neopixels!
@@eddietheengineer thanks!
Stupid question, but was is driving the stepper motor?
There is an on board TMC2209!
Wanna do a collab video/live setting one up to run usb serial and not canbus?
I have been thinking of why not doing a toolhead controller but like a klipper expander, using an RP2040 or a simple 8 bit microcontroller and simply running 2 signals for the usb, 1 5v, 1 24V and 1 GND 5 wires in total, I know that some long usb wires need some shielding but It would be interesting to try
You'd need motion-rated twisted pair cable to carry USB. (Really, for CANBUS, it ought to be twisted-pair too, but it's only running at 500 kilobits/sec..) No need for 5V; for 10 cents you just regulate down from the 24V supply with an LDO regulator device.
@@lmamakos oh right I see, the idea was mainly couse Klipper already supports pretty well usb protocol and microcontrollers with USB integration are pretty common even in this shortage, like Atmega32U4 but I'm not sure
regarding the accelerometer there is a doubt as you need to meazure the resonance for x and for the y table also) with this board only x ?
I'm sure it can do multiple axis, the only reason it would be an issue is if you're running something like a bed slinger since the accelerometer would need to be moved. Both X and Y can be measured from the tool head on a coreXY printer.
Will that 5 pin endstop connector finally support bltouch on the huvud board?
It should, but I think I would need to combine the 2 ground wires from the bltouch into the single endstop ground pin.
That’s a good question-I haven’t used a BLtouch in a few years unfortunately, so I’m not super familiar on what is required
Do I understand correctly that huvud 0.61 has a 5V pin for probe so you can't use the voron recommended Omron TL-Q5MC2 which is 24V?
If you wanted, you could pull 24V off the board someplace and the use a bat85 diode (similar to how we wire the probe with some main control boards) to protect the MCU
I found out the painful way what not motion rated cables mean. Will keep this in upgrade option in mind if any other wires fail. Then it will probably worth the time to rip out the wiring loom for this to trade some mechanical / electrical complexity for software complexity.
Please replace the cables now! I have helped replace wiring on a friend’s printer that did not use motion rated wiring…some wires shorted out/overheated/melted the ABS parts and set off the fire alarm.
@@eddietheengineer Nothing to worry about. I already rebuild my wiring loom. Been just very sad to find out that there is an easier option, compared to stuffing the cable chains full of wires. After i already put in the work. Now i got the very flexible copper silicone wires, instead of the aluminum wires that came with my kit. Also seen people running some flat ribbon cables with no drag chains. But using 3 lanes for your heater cartridge seems a bit unsafe compared to ruining some thicker gauge 24V wires.
Agreed--I have seen the FRC option but haven't really looked in depth, using silicone or PTFE wires still seems the best route to go, at least until I've seen good data for the safety of the FRC option.
Are you able to run the board over the micro USB cable instead of can? As you said alot, maybe not the right or robust way, but it would be a very easy way to get started.
I don’t know if you can directly run it through the microusb port but I think you can run the usb data wires to the 4 pin connector and then cut/adjust traces
I was looking into reworking this board to use a rp2040 since it is available. I thought I would not see this in the next 6 months since the stm is not to be found.
Rp2040 doesn't have canbus
Thanks for the video and the effort!
Concerning the board, am I right that no spare pins (assuming a bl touch is used) are left for controlling pwm fans (the 4 pin fans which provides tacho and accept pwm input)?
I don't see any spare connector.
You're correct! There aren't any connectors for 4 pin fans. I'm not sure if you could use the debug pins for the pwm/tach signals or if they need to be 24V?
@@eddietheengineer pwm and tacho are TTL, any free pin would work bitti don't see any spare pin available on the board, so I guess the only way is to use the extra ones from the endstop
@@olafmarzocchi6194 I wonder if you could use some of the debug pins?
@@eddietheengineer probably with klipper it's possible!
Is it possible to have multiple canbus tool heads connected? Like dual extruder or even 4 toolhead with an automatic tool changer. I was researching about it but cannot fin any example of at least a dual head setup
Yes! You can have multiple toolheads on one CAN bus, I do it for Tridex (Trident IDEX)
@@eddietheengineer do you connect all to the same ports?
@@IvanGOrtolan yes! it is best to have the CAN devices in a "chain". I have mine set up so that each toolhead is the "termination point" and then the CAN adapter is at the center
Toolhead check! Ehm - what about the xyz steppers?
Yes! You can connect multiple CAN boards to the same bus, that’s what I do for IDEX. I think at $25/each or less it would be interesting to put a board per stepper, but at $65 it’s a bit harder to justify
@@eddietheengineer so a full printer would need xyze, that's 4x$25=$100 ... As much as this is intriguing for the e, it feels a bit excessive for xyz. But interesting nonetheless.
@@gordonbroom5442 I’d love to see a Huvud style board with minimal components; say 2209, micro, and maybe a stepper encoder and temp sensor specifically for use with motion stepper motors!
Any chance you could get an ADXL345 on there? Would there be the bandwidth.
There already is one on the V0.61!
@@eddietheengineer Then I'm in.
But why CAN and not just simply use a micro controller with USB interface and write drivers for klipper. Plug directly into the USB line ercf easyboard does.
This is one thing I'm going to try. AFAIK there's solder pads on the reverse of the board for USB data so it's not necessary to use the Micro USB socket.
The original idea before the chip shortage was to use one of these boards on X and Y motors as well as the toolhead. You could run only 4 wires up to a breakout board on the gantry that would then connect to the X and Y motors as well as the toolhead. You could approximate this by running a USB cable to the gantry and using a USB hub, but it would be much larger and less elegant than using CAN. If you're only using a board on the toolhead, USB is probably preferred over CAN, especially since the newer versions of the board support USB using the Molex connector. This is an early version of the distribution board. github.com/bondus/KlipperToolboard/blob/master/doc/PowerCanDist.jpg
Do the crystals have to match? I could only find 12mhz RS485 CAN hats. Video was not definitive about which one to use. I’m guessing 8mhz but not sure.
That's a good question, the crystal on the Huvud doesn't have to match the crystal on the CAN hat. The Huvud has an 8Mhz crystal (and you need to set it to 8Mhz in the make menuconfig).
If your Waveshare is 12Mhz, then that's fine! Just set your config.txt to:
dtoverlay=mcp2515-can0,oscillator=12000000,interrupt=25,spimaxfrequency=2000000
Accelerometer would have been nice or is there anything to connect it to?
10:08 - The 0.61 board has an accelerometer onboard.
@@iPeel Perfect, thanks. Couldn't see it on the board or documentation.
Do you flash the Huvud 0.61 directly by a RPI with latest Klipper? Does the CAN hat need to be on the Pi for this or can I add it after?
Yes you can flash it from the Pi! The boot jumper must be set, a USB cable connected from the Pi to the Huvud, and 24V sent to the Huvud
Create an install walkthrough, please!
Why isn’t there a fuse after the MOSFET? The fuse would prevent a fire if/when MOSFET fails, right? Seams like a no-brainer to me. Am I missing something?
No, it wouldn't help.
It's almost impossible to order :((
where do you buy this?
I purchased mine from Luke’s Lab!
Does it work with a BLTouch? Do you still use a regular controller for the other parts of the printer?
I have not tested it with a BLtouch, so I’ll defer to someone else that maybe has. You’ll still use a regular controller for the rest of your printer!
Hey eddie, do you own a RS485 hat? If so did manage to make it work with a rpi4?
Depending on type of HAT it either just works, or you need to load overlay for adittional serial ports. (sc16is752 or similar often used)
I have the waveshare hat that has RS485 on it as well as CAN, but I have not tried using the RS485 portion
USB C version ?
Is it possible to use the "Huvud 3D Printer toolhead board" directly with a BTT Octopus instead of a "Raspberry Pi CAN hat" ?
Unfortunately not at this time!
@@eddietheengineer THX
@@eddietheengineer RS485 CAN HAT support Pi 4 ?
@@wolfgangmauer7970 yes! I’m using a waveshare can hat on a Pi 4
@@eddietheengineer THX
Please, take a course for editing, storytelling and photo editing! Your content is gold! But there are some limiting factors that limit the reachability of your content
Thank you for your feedback!
Eddie, do you have a mount for this board published anywhere? I designed a mount I've been using on my Switchwire that uses the hartk mount points on the side of the CW1, but I'd like to transition my 2.4 over to CW2 and I'm not sure how I can make that work with the Huvud.
Yes! Not published yet but I can, I have one for the back of CW1 and Galileo, not CW2 yet
@@eddietheengineer I would love to see your mounts. I just received a v0.61 Huvud and I removed all the wiring from my 2.4 in preparation to install it. I can use my existing mount on the CW1 that's still in that printer, but I'm curious to see other ideas.
@@jakepF1D I’ll try and get something uploaded tonight!
@@eddietheengineer Much appreciated!
Is it possible to canbus chain multiple devices together? like a proper canbus or is it just a single end to end solution?! (like why not run all motors in a printer with these)
What would be the point? Can bus takes 4 wires, each motor takes 4 wires. Absolutely pointless overcomplication.
@@FrozenHaxor can bus is a 2 wire protocol + 2 wire for power - means you can run not only motor, but heat cartridge, sensor, other relays, servos etc off the same chain.. and these cards are readily available - and easy to misuse - i mean adapt till other things than plastic extrusion. :)
@@roughedge-machineworks It only makes sense for toolhead in 3D Printer application, other motors are spread apart and it's easier to route motor wires directly.
@@FrozenHaxor also makes sense to daisychain toolhead boards in a robotic arm, and offload main processor of dealing with position data, stepper and limit switches.. Soarry but you are a tad bit narrow minded i suppose to grasp they why of my original question.. it doesnt relate to 3D printing.
@@roughedge-machineworks Then why post under a video related purely to 3D printing? Your original question also mentioned only a 3D printer. You contradict yourself.
If only there was a wireless can bus option. That would be something.
Wireless CAN is a thing but for this use case its useless, you still need to run power so might as well route CANH and CANL alongside
cant read a thing in the tiny terminal window :(
Thanks for the feedback! I'll try and make it a larger size in the future.
These boards need to include a magnetic encoder so we can start using closed loop control
I have a 12v system :( oh well looked cool and it was something I was looking for. I have to many cables running from my hotend/toolhead to my MCU.
Hello Daniel! Thanks to @Tedlasman's response it looks like the mosfet is rated for 6A so you should be able to run 12V and a lower powered hotend heater. I'd use a 40W heater (or even a 30W if you can find one) at 12V, I know that sounds excessive but safety is really important.
In my case, I also run these enclosed in a hot chamber so I expect the component rating to be lower than it is at normal ambients. The ultimate solution for a toolhead board like this is to have a relay or switch that allows all power to the toolhead board to be shut off in case of a thermal runaway--that would be the extra layer of protection that would make me feel safe running 12V. You can do this with Klipper using the Moonraker [power] plugin and a relay!
@@eddietheengineer Thanks, looks like this are hard to get hold of, do you know any other breakout board? I thought of just buying another printers breakout board. I have a wanhao i3 v2.1. But I guess I need to check the mosfet on the board to find out of it can even handle 12v.
Are there still limitations in klipper with the endstops? I thought about using a similar board a while ago, but there were some limitations with the endstops wich kept me from changing over on my Printer.
There are not limitations! The cross MCU homing code is merged into the main Klipper code. I use the probe and X endstop routed through my toolhead board
try the asxl345 is it so tyny) and easy to connect to the raspberry pi zero 2w
25$ was a steal. I was ready to get one despite not having a need for it. But 65 isn't worth it in my opinion.
Cable chains and a decent wiring harness for a Voron 2.4 or Trident will run you a bare minimum of $100. With the Huvud you still need to run wires for the A/B motors, but even at $65 this board is a net cost savings. It might not be so attractive if you're using it on a different type of printer.
maybe rp2040 would've been a better choice instead of stm32 given the shortages
The Huvud was developed before the chip shortage, and before the RP2040 was launched. I bought a v0.5 a full year ago.
Sold out since April 2021. Great info, but absolutely unobtainable. 😕
There are alternatives
wow nice one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The board can handle 6A of current
Tutorial for using 0.61😆
Ferrules in ARK connectors are MANDATORY.
Thanks for the insight! I'll be sure to try to find some small ferrules next time I install one.
I dont see how putting extra weight on the toolhead is a good idea in an era of high-speed 3d printing.
Cable chains with 17wires in them are heavy and introduce friction. I run a Huvud with an umbilical setup. It’s a net weight savings.
less wires in the drag chains
did you even watch the video?