The Problem with Palia
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2023
- What is going on with Palia? What's the problem? If you've been keeping your eye on this game, or have been playing, you may already know. The problem might not seem like a big thing to some people, but I'd like to address how it affects the community as a whole, and the longevity of the game.
Hi! I'm Wickedy, if you are new here, please know that this is not my usual content. I shared a game I was excited about with my community, but when more info came out about how the business end of things is being handled, I felt the need to share that side too. Again, as long as you are having fun, I'm happy for you. If this is a game you want to try, that's awesome! You can check out Palia here with my referral code: accounts.palia.com/sign-up?re...
To clarify: What is Toxic Positivity? Toxic positivity happens when people believe that negative thoughts about anything should be avoided. Toxic Positivity occurs when encouraging statements are expected to minimize or eliminate painful emotions, creating pressure to be unrealistically optimistic without considering the circumstances of the situation.
What is predatory marketing? Predatory advertising, or predatory marketing, can be largely understood as the practice of manipulating vulnerable persons or populations into unfavorable market transactions through the undisclosed exploitation of these vulnerabilities.
A lot of this video is how I feel about how things are handled. I am not claiming that it is indeed that, but that it feels borderline to me personally. - เกม
Heya friends! I've been reading through all the comments as they come in, and wow! You all have a lot to say! I appreciate all your opinions and have learned a lot more from the comments.
I initially had a very long comment here addressing concerns people have with the devs, with the gameplay and with the shop. Honestly, some very valid points were made on both ends of the discussion and I love a good healthy discussion. Thank you for sharing.
While there are a lot of concerns about the trajectory of the game, the intentions of development team (which has over 150 employees and multimillion dollars in backing), the lack of communication and contradicting statements of some of the dev team, and concerns over conversion rates and coin purchases always leaving you with more than you can spend on items but never enough to get anything else, I'd like to keep in mind that the game at it's core is something that a lot of people put a lot of love and time into.
If you enjoy the game, that's great! That's what games are for! If you enjoy the purchases, that's fine too. I actually do enjoy playing. Though I do know there are faults with the gameplay and how recent changes have caused it to be more of a grinding game than a cozy community building game. As someone who has been with a few "Cozy Game" communities for a very long time, the current way that various different aspects are being handled gives me pause and concern for the future of a game I enjoy and community I would love to be more involved in. A good game I'll play a few times, but a good game with a great COMMUNITY, I'll rave about and stay with for a very long time.
Ya'll are so passionate and I love that. I am not trying to dissuade anyone from playing Palia, I just wanted to share concerns about the future of it and wether of not I want to invest in it. Investment to me is more than money, it's time. I'd like to invest my time in a game that has the healthy, thriving community that lasts, and I hope that this one does.
Sorry if that’s my fault at all- I’ve been sharing your video on the Palia discord and it’s probably got some attention from there- I want the devs to see it because you raise many good points in a really fair respectful way. You even changed my initial perspectives.
There is a monetary bottom line with a spread sheet board who have to be responsible to stockholders who have invested money. So their primary objective is making money. I'll give you an example of a cloud game that does have brutal micro-store sims free-to-play. I haven't spent a dime as of yet in Palia. Due to the fact that I have a no invest policy while games are in Betas. Monetarily these games can dry-up, lose funding and die, or they can change gameplay features that can turn me off completely from the game. In any of these scenarios I will have lost hard cash. There are extraordinary games that have been in beta for ever. Such as Star citizen and their store is abusively high - Hundreds of dollars for individual digital starships. Realistic I believe that Palia will need to be subscription with a micro-store like WOW.
You absolutely nailed my concerns. I love the game for the most part but the absence of $5(ish) items in the shop gave me pause and seeing the "coin bait" pets - especially at this point in the game's development - genuinely worries me. Great content, great video!
It's all about balance. If you offer premium options, also offering more accessible options just makes sense
@@Wickedy is there anyway of getting the coins in game? I know with Fallout 76 you could get atoms by completing objectives in game
Exactly this. The thing that first shocked me about the premium store when I first saw it in closed beta is the fact that there's nothing cheap. I don't mind supporting a game I'm enjoying, but when none of the premium purchases really catch my eye, AND so expensive that I could buy multiple games for that price, then I really can't. Even the whole "One of the pets are available if you buy any amounts of coins", except if you buy the cheapest amount of coins, there's literally nothing to spend it on because everything is too expensive...
@@Wickedy That's become the back bone of World of Warcraft.
My friend convinced me to sign up for the beta and I managed to get in and had a bit of fun playing it at first. Until they introduced the pets - I was very excited until I saw they were behind a paywall. I'm not about to get burned by another game that builds itself around the cash shop as time goes on, so I uninstalled it right away.
I backed Temtem on kickstarter many years ago and lo and behold, they filled their game with anti-consumer practices and put most cosmetics behind the cash shop and battle pass, not to mention it being a paid game makes all of it more egregious.
There's a lot of people that are okay with these microtransactions and it reminds me of how I felt before things got more out of control. First it's horse armor, then it's launch day DLC, and then cosmetic armor sets that cost more than entire games. Things have got worse and worse for consumers. The only way I can see people defending it is if they're young and not been burned enough yet to realize how anti-consumer these practices are.
Stuff like this is wild when big AAA games tend to have the most expensive outfits be $15 dollars, with outliers that everyone hates like Overwatch. Especially when Palia, as a relatively unknown game, is trying to build a community that will support it. I can't imagine starting off on such a bad foot.
There was another game that I absolutely adored, Spellbreak. It was super fun, had the makings of one of the best Battle Royale games with a little more love. Every update just added new expensive skins to the shop, and the game died in a few months.
Oh not Spellbreak! I remember being excited about that and then forgetting about it because life and stuff. I'm sad that happened. Purchases and cosmetic shops are great, but within reason and done right.
I feel like establishing the community and building up a loyal and enthusiastic fan base should always be a priority, by listening and working on giving a stable and engaging game. When you have that it adds value to the cosmetics you offer. It's a sense of ownership and pride for players. Once you have a strong footing, then add in varied levels of premiere stuff while still catering free additions to those loyal fabs, who will recommend the game to all their friends or fans, thus building up the community and your potential revenue pool even more.
But I'm just a gamer. What do I know
Might I add Valorant to that list of AAA games with expensive cosmetics… some of them are over $50 for a single weapon… although that pricing convinces me to get the pass, where you get a dozen skins for $10…
Hey I know this was posted a few months ago but I just saw it. I love both of yalls stardew content, I've been playing for 1.5 years and thru the wiki and your channels ive learned a lot and still discovering mechanics. The other day I asked chatgpt to write me a new stardew character and it came back with something inspiring lol I'm so hyped for 1.6!!
I agree wholeheartedly with this - I fully expected that the pets would either be earned through an NPC quest, or you'd have to find a Palcat in the wild and tame it. To have it just... be there... and not even have a free option, was very disappointing. I don't really care about the clothing, and the one outfit I was interested in, the Chapaa onesies, are not nearly as cute on the model as they are in the promo image, and they don't even have the same colours as in the image! Why would I spend money on that???
The nerfing of foragables in the recent patch makes no sense either. Like yes, it's great that they spread things out a bit more, because some areas were very dense in items while others were completely empty, but the fact that, for instance, the one place that spawned shells & oysters is practically barren now is ridiculous. I've seen multiple people theorize that the devs thought people were getting "end game money" too quickly, but... so what??? Most of the people I've seen with end game money are just spending it on their house! That doesn't effect anyone else! It's a great game, but this patch is NOT good.
Also zomg can they please make it so you have to CHOOSE to climb a wall?! If my character auto-attaches to a wall (and then refuses to let go) one more time...
Omg the disobedient Spidey moments!! I know!!!
Thank you for addressing this. I went into the store for the first time just last night and my jaw DROPPED at how expensive a simple cosmetic outfit was. If they wanted to charge $2.50 or even $5 for an outfit with special effects in/on it fine I could maybe deal with that but almost $10? $50??!!! I'm sorry but NO. Nobody should be paying that much. That's Disney levels of greed. You want money? charge for the game which i would be happy to pay a fee for. But locking pets behind paywalls and overpricing outfits? C'mon Palia that's what killed my love of Dreamlight Valley.
100% and this is exactly why no matter how awesome everyone says it is I knew when they said it would be FTP that I would not be playing! I’d rather pay upfront than continue to sink money into something - except for DLCs which developers have put a lot of time into.
This all the way. I thought at first this was a single player game and was excited. But the moment a game is free, I already know where things are going
I think $5-10 dollars for outfits and cosmetics are reasonable depending on what you get for it. There are a few games that charge 5 for basic stuff, 10 for kinda unique stuff and up to 20 for really fancy stuff but then there are ones who charge well .. I saw one charging 20 dollars for a BASIC one-color cape. Now that's insane.
Disney is making up for the shop though by doing dreamsnaps you could buy everything in shop without buying any moonstones. So at least disney is trying to fix it
@@Leeleenightz agree! I was super happy to see the dream snaps. Still not sure that particular game is for me but I am glad for the community that they are making the premium shop more accessible.
Absolutely right ! They say it's not predatory but yet you walk into the in game tailor, go to see what's available at the register and BAM the premium store opens. It's WAY too expensive. Not to mention that 50% or more of the very first update revolves around pushing over priced content from the premium store. You can't just straight up purchase anything either. You must buy a coin pack which doesn't even out to the cost of the items for sale. Meaning oh you want a $12 outfit you will have to buy a pack of coins for $17. How convenient that you now have a left over amount sitting there but not enough for another item soooo ......... Pets are one of the most wanted items in any game but instead of giving us all a way to earn them in game they chose to lock them behind a paywall. Everyone also wants outfits and accessories but again, no way to earn even a few in game. There is nothing all inclusive and cozy about that. Worse part is, when people tried to voice their opinions about it on the discord a few of their mods made sure to tell us things like " I hate to break it to you but the world isn't all inclusive and doesn't need to be" or " This is what's wrong with your mentality. You think because you're not getting something optional you're being punished etc etc and then ends with If the things they were offering weren't compelling people wouldn't buy it. You're living in a fantasy" Those are exact quotes. How freaking rude is that? I would completely support the game if it was a healthy environment and actually affordable. So put off now that I haven't even logged back in since 😱🤬.
Hi, you mentioned an ingame tailor, can I ask if there are any outfits that can be bought with the ingame currency/unlocked through quests? I love to customise, so if that's not an option I just won't bother playing the game 😂
@@fontanna888 Unfortunately there are NO ways in game to purchase or earn any additional outfits or accessories. It is in beta and they are asking for suggestions though.
What about a system where you can pay for the exact amount of coins needed for the cosmetic
@@wintersteale8869what’s crazy too is how it’s still in beta and has been for several years now 😭
It's not JUST the price of the cosmetics (although I admit they are definitely a bit high), it's also having to buy more than one set of coins to make those purchases. Set pricing with region based cash and ditch the coins, or if you MUST keep the coins, set them in groups that line up with the costs in the shop. Setting things up so that you always have left over coins and nothing to do with them is absolutely predatory. Its like paying with cash and getting your change back all in pennies. Feels bad man.
I'll even go as far as to say that it's like paying in cash, but getting your change back in Monopoly money ...
yeah, but sadly this is actually the norm with games that have money conversion into game currency. Its a psychological game that makes you want to buy more so that you have 0 coins, but with the way the prices are set up you'll never achieve that, you'll always have something left over.
@@Nightscream452 Just because thats how things are, doesnt mean they can never change. Calling those games out for this predatory mechanic is better than doing nothing.
@@fontanna888 I feel like what you just said is exactly the point that needs to be made. There's something to be said for pushing against the status quo when it isn't living up to expectations. If you walk into a store and are told "This jacket is $24 but you have to pay $34 to get it. The extra $10 will be set aside for you in store credit", I guarantee people would loose their minds over it. There'd be videos all up and down social media posted in outrage at the audacity; ...and yet we go home, download a game with a store front in it, and we prescribe to exactly the same thing over digital goods. I don't think there is anything wrong with calling this out, especially when the developer in question stated back in February with an article about their business model that they didn't want to monetize using tricks; and this is unfortunately, a tricksy way to do things.
I think Palia has a solid foundation and has a huge amount of potential. Up to the devs whether it fails or succeeds from here I think unless the game majorly flops on launch.
or stays in "early access" forever.... that's my fear
This is precisely why I am incredibly wary of "free to play" games. And, honestly? I would much rather pay for a complete game up front than to be nickel and dimed (or in this case, ten'ed and twentied) to death for every feature the devs consider to be 'cosmetic.'
As it stands, this killed any interest I might have had in trying Palia.
I am going to be so sad, if this issue brings down Palia. Playing the beta helped me relax during a stressful time and I really love it and want to see where this world will take us.
But when I saw those prices in the store, it was alarming to say the least. The prices are simply predatory. They are too much and the added "bonuses" uneven the amount of currency you get. So you end up with leftovers and of course you are not being able to buy anything with those.
Then I was excited to read about the new update bringing in pets. A lot of people asked about that and it seemed like the devs are listening to the community. The cats looked adorable and I looked forward to get my own. Aha. The next minute I hear, that you can only get a pet if you pay a certain amount of money for something in the shop. No quest to get one for free. No choice. Give us your money if you want this new stuff!
I am not surprised that people are furious about this. I am too. This game is so charming and I want to stay in this world. But there is a line.
Worst part for me is that "As a thank you for your time, here's a pet, but you have to pay for it!" - So, the help, feedback, etc that I provided, is not worth anything, because I cannot afford to pay your obscene prices, my help is not worth the thank you?
When I voiced that concern, I was told I could just get a job, if it was that simple. As someone with a severe handicap, I can't just go out there and get a job. So no, I can't just do that, so what little income I have, is not being spent on something, "Just go get the thank you for your help." They could've given the basic sand colored pet to everyone who had helped them out. That is not "Cozy gaming." That's Greed from S6.
I deleted the game from my system over frustration that came from the mini games in several areas of play. Fishing, chopping veggies and so forth. Arthritic hands keep me from enjoying mini games, so I don't play games that stick you with them.
I felt like they made a sad mistake by misunderstanding how important and special pets are to gamers. We feel quite emotional about them. I recall experiencing mild grief when my Spino on Ark SE that I had since 2016 died to a game bug. Turning our first experience with Palia Pets into a zero-effort for those who can pay, vs absolutely unatainable by those who cannot at that moment pay - created a sad and empty relationship with my experience of pets in general. Everyone either has a pet or does not - it's like a splash of social status doused all over the game with some so clearly being of "high" class because they own the top tier pet skins. How miserable! We don't want to share our uniqueness this way. I thought it was sad.
I agree this is insane I have been obsessed for weeks and then this 👿
This, 100%. For most people they'll have a special connection with their pets, so you need to bring it into the game carefully. If you want to monetise it, that's fine, but at least make the initial introduction of the pets be part of the game, and allow people to get some free pets as well. By making it pay-only, you've effectively tuned pets into, at best, expensive decorations (if they remain functionless), or at worst, pay-to-win (if they add any kind of mechanics to the pets). Either way, they've seriously hampered what they can do with the pets going forward, and quite badly damaged the whole pet experience in general.
Oh I think they understand perfectly how important pets are to gamers. They know everyone will want them. That's why they make it $30 to get them lol
Yeah I see this game being completely forgettable in 6 months since they only care about exploiting their community. They're not even open to criticism in their discord. People who bring it up are warned or banned under the blanket of "we want cozy vibes here" nonsense. Basically "praise us and don't question our greedy and predatory business practices".
Oh that makes me very sad
@@Wickedy Same, it had such potential too. 😒
Just got into the game with my friends. Really sad that it’s so predatory.
I felt the same from the first time I played the closed beta and saw the shop. I almost bought 50$ if the shop didn’t have problems at the time with transaction. Then I thought about it and got to the conclusion that Palia is not for me because I knew it wouldn’t be the last 50$ spent on the game so I used the same money to buy Fae Farm 😂
Edit:also on my opinion 25 people per server can not be called an MMO
It is not the case, though, that there are only 25 people per server. That is a misunderstanding of some use of instancing on the main town map.
There are limits of dozens of people per instance on a map, specifically a max of 25 people on the main Kiliima village plaza, this is quite standard practice for all MMOs to prevent a mosh pit of 300 people flooding Zeki's store, or 100 people searching for Palium nodes in Pavel mine. It's especially important for a "cozy vibe" game like Palia. People who have mentioned that it's "25 people per server" have been misled.
@@childcrone Unlike other mmos you can not see the chat of other instances so you never have access to more than the people on the instant your in. You can swap instances sure but then you just have access to the player in that instance. Neverwinter handles the instance and player communication much better. It is beta though maybe they will adjust that in the future.
Sigh, it's in beta they may increase the servers to more people. I don't think people understand what beta means.
@@PeggingCryptidsthe switch addition has multiplayer count at 2 to 25 I think.
Seriously, it can't be understated that this WILL kill the game if nothing changes. The mindset is overly focused on money now.
It's in open beta and they have shown so far that most of their development time since launch has been spent making paid outfits and pets instead of building the fundamental game into being great enough to warrant spending money in valid areas.
agreed, especially since the last update seemed to have broke many things that didn't even need to be addressed.
I uninstalled it the moment I read that pets were paywalled. Not about to waste my time with clearly greedy devs. If not greedy, then just astronomically out of touch with the playerbase.
The majority of development is for paid outfits? What are you talking about??
The game has only been in open beta for 2 months and in that time we have already had the maji markets event, the fire temple and associated quests, new romance options added, Halloween event, new plant crops, the experimental obstacle course. Each one of these things is a pretty significant amount of work to add to the game and all of it is free and it's all been within 2 months.
The pricing of the paid cosmetics is a bit high but it's purely cosmetic. All gameplay content is completely free.
@@sockpastarock7082 Hey, good on ya. I believe the game has gotten better and there's more reason for optimism than ever before. Luckily my comment aged and lost its applicability partly.
I just don't think there is enough to do. I am level 100 with all skills over level 10, all but 4 villagers are at tier 4. Here are my problems: there is not enough wildlife diversity to hunt, hunting feels like shooting fish in a barrel, the climbing mechanic is clunky. We need more quests and things to do.
If the pets were a quest reward with paid skins, you could even then add gameplay features to them! Which lets face it, if you wanna have a pet cat in a game, you wanna be able to interact with it a bit!
Really respect you not wanting to stream this until they get their act together, great video. Hope Palia devs figure this necessity for balance out.
I honestly feel like the intermediate currency is also predatory, and providing cover for the ridiculous prices on what is basically just a palette swap. It is a very well known practice to make the differences between item prices and the bundled amounts of "coins" you buy mis-matched, encouraging you to buy more than you will use. And once you have the coins, it's psychologically easier to make that ridiculous purchase in the premium store. Honestly I don't even mind paying $15 for the outfits, because it just feels like a substitution for a subscription fee. But I absolutely understand people who don't feel like the price is worth the item you're buying, and the "palia coins" REALLY rub me the wrong way.
I definitely feel like there needs to be a few changes with this game for me to keep playing. For one, what the heck is the point of having an empty mine? And if it’s meant to have ore in it… I never see it lol. They’ve made special ores and items waaaaay too hard to find now. I like a grindy game to some extent, but it’s a bit much here if you ask me. And the pricing…. I was talking to my fiancé before finishing your video, and spot on. We said the same thing about pricing and the community. Sadly with how they’re handling things and the pricing, the game with start to lose traction and player base before it’s even fully released. It’s starting to make me second guess dumping any more hours into it. Idk. I love it, but at the same time, I’m not happy and I just hope they make some adjustments and start to listen to their community.
Thanks for speaking up, I must say you have spoken my concerns. I was VERY disappointed when I saw pets are only available behind a paywall.. I was like yay they listened to us about adding pets and this is what we get??? I was willing to buy the outfits at first glance, but the prices stopped my wallet from being bankrupt 😂
I"m hoping they add pets ingame as well.. without the paywall..
It will NEVER be off the mark to complain that a FAKE outfit is around $30!!! It’s INSANE
I was going to purchase something from the premium store, until I saw the prices - which are in USD, with the exchange rate to AUD, it's exorbident and I can't justfy spending that much.
Oof I didn't even think about the exchange rates
I’d like to add a few other points that made me run from Palia after about 100 hours…
Farming is extremely limited, you are limited to 9 crop spaces, each of which is a 3x3 grid, some things you plant take up an entire 3x3 grid, in a game where you are supposed to be able to do a lot of farming… limiting how much farming you can actually do is mildly offputting… but it’s an attempt to limit how much you can earn each day passively to slow progression.
In the end I had high hopes for this game, and I hope future updates improve on it, but we’ll see what time brings.
I totally agree. I also dislike that there seem to be no options for clothing choices from quests or gifts or crafting either. You can either have base clothes or buy a big price tag for different clothes. One of the things that kept me playing DCUO all these years is that you can collect and buy tons of styles and make great outfits with more options every time you play. I like that I can earn some and buy others, and it makes me want to buy some. Neverwinter was the same. I love all the free mounts, but I also asked my mother to buy me a $30 across the account mount for my birthday, because they let us have some as free gifts, some from quests, and some from earning them with coin in game.... and then offered me a $30 leopard that I could give to every character I had. They didn't just say, "Want a mount? You have to buy it. It's expensive.". People will always buy if you make the game fun and affordable. Neverwinter is also a good example of the bad side of that. The bad side is that they sell some race bundles that come with the new type of race and outfits as well as some items to go with it; but they are over $100 each. Nearly no one you see has them, because that is a lot of money to drop so you can play a Moon Elf, instead of a Wood Elf (or Sun Elf or Dark Elf, or....). They do offer some in game content with the bundle but barely any to speak of.
I feel like DCUO has the best structure for what you should be doing if you want to sell enough to stay afloat and also build a community and keep it free at the same time. They just suffer from losing popularity to Marvel and becoming an old game, but there is still a thriving environment.
You nailed it with this video. I was going to buy from the cash shop but the prices are egregious. They are overpriced and the coin system they have in play is garbage. They are ensuring you always have "left over" coins making you feel like you're wasting money by leaving coins behind. I went into the game thinking "Sure, I'll drop some cash to help this Dev. Team out and pick up a few cosmetic items." Then I seen the cash shop coins system and prices for everything and I now I'm thinking: "Nope, not giving these shady, greedy, got'cha game bastards a dime." As it sits now, I'm already at the point where I log in to tend to crops, maybe mine a little and log off. Putting the pets behind a paywall has basically killed my drive to keep playing as I can see this happening with every new "feature" in the future. It is a damn shame.
I think they should had a palcat for free and different skins in shop. In dreamlight Valley you can unlock a lot of pet completely free and some that you can just buy from the shop. And Dreamlight pets don't follow you has a stalker but they walked around you makes different moves, sometimes they run, sometimes they walk and they add different stuff for pets in the updates, like a house, so you can place the pets you buy in your valley, because you can bring with you just one pet so the other pets don't have to stay in your inventory.
I appreciate the honest opinion and sharing some concerns so people can make their decision on more facts.
I have to share your disappointment. Like, I understand they need to make money but putting so many things behind a paywall makes it hard for people who depend on free to play games to interact with their friends to enjoy and stick with the game. I love the idea of making base items like pets and maybe special seeds available via quest. Expanding on that, maybe make some base cosmetics and items to change said cosmetics (like clothing dye? I just downloaded the game today lol) part of longer quests or quests that require a lot of grinding for free to play players, but still have them available in the store for those who can afford to drop money on them?
I could justify more premium cosmetics if there was also some sort of free or quest based cosmetics in game. As far as I'm aware, there is only your base outfit.
The cash shop feels like a slap in the face after how long we waited for this game.
I think this is/was a very constructive & positive way to present this issue and your supported opinions about it. I appreciate your thoughtful and experienced take.
On the surface the game is fun but after you've played for awhile you start to realize how shallow of a game it is. Their honestly just really isn't anything to do and let's be real this isn't a mmo. Theirs literally nothing to do together besides mine the same rock or fish the same spot.
I have to say this is the comment that I agree 1,000,000 percent with. I have waited for Palia for over 2 years, and was SO excited to start playing and it's been a week and Im bored as shit.
There is absolutely no where near enough content for this to be a replayable game. Two small zones? Only two animals to hunt? A limit to farming soil? Even the main quest line is already done. Theres also absolutely no reason to play together. Its almost awkward and slows things down. Now these dumb pets like some useless cat following me around lol Im good. It's really sad, such a disappointment.
I was playing sun heaven meanwhile I downloaded palia. Got excited for a free cartoon style mmo but only played for 2 days. Returned to play sun heaven and literally today I was like, there’s so much to do I haven’t been paying attention to!. I even update Elder Scrolls Online and Black Desert. Not excited to open Palia again 😢 maybe is for the better. Prefer complete games without microtransactions
@@gamesrfun2725 don't forget the part where the pet is behind a pay wall for imo insanely overpriced cosmetics.
@@rahovartiv3464 Yeah it's honestly so disappointing. Their effort to mask their greed behind a "kind and inclusive" atmosphere is also adding insult to injury.
It's a beta. Are you always this clueless about game development and the stages they go through?@@gamesrfun2725
I love the game and have been playing since the closed beta. But I was so shocked by the prices from day one. As a hardcore cozy gamer with over 100 (cosy) games on my Steam account alone and over 1,000 Euros that I've thrown at EA (Sims addict), I immediately thought that this can't be a concept for the intended audience.
I was attacked because I was told that the developers have to earn money. Definitely YES! They have to and they should!
I would have hoped they would have gone the way of Disney Dreamlight Valley - a starting price for Early Access and then shop options to be tested. Those developers have already adjusted the pricing system somewhat in response.
Unfortunately, the last patch also broke Palia. I already left 70 Euros in the shop and had all the cats, but I'm almost embarrassed to walk around with it. Apart from the fact that they're really just accessories, I don't want a two-class player community. Also, the run on palium and flow trees annoys me. Again, the developers don't seem to have a clue about the typical cozy gamer. These players don't really like competitive games. And as a typical cozy gamer, I don't have the time to play 12 hours a day. Again, the target audience is more like me: more likely to be female, more likely to be a little older, more likely to have a family and/or a job, who just want to relax. That's what makes a cozy game.
Just finished my first experience with Palia, so this is a very well-time video for me! I wasn't aware of the aggressive pricing model in the store since I was having so much fun discovering stuff that I didn't look into it, but there's definitely a problem there. Since the game's in beta and a lot could change in a short span of time, I'm willing to give the devs the benefit of the doubt that they'll address players' concerns and find a good fix for it, but if not, I could definitely see it dividing the player base and driving the free-to-play players away.
One monetization model that has worked well for a lot of other MMOs is a subscription service, and I definitely think that's something they could implement. Make the premium store exclusively cosmetics, dramatically lower the current pricing, and allow players to earn other items, pets, etc. by playing the game while paying a small monthly subscription. I wouldn't be surprised if that's something they're planning on doing once it's out of beta, and if not, maybe this community reaction will be their incentive to approach monetization from a different, more reasonable angle.
Either way, thanks for sharing your opinion! I've fallen in love with the game and its world already, so I really hope the devs will listen and help the game thrive in the future.
I am so hoping for the game to thrive too! I'm having so much fun playing the game and getting lost in all the nooks and crannies around.
My eyebrow waggles more came into play seeing that there is an emphasis on the cash shop during the beta, during a time when bug fixes and patched and quality of life and game improvements are to worked on.
It's all about balance. I want to customize my character and my world and whatnot, but with the cash first mentality that seems to be going on right now, it makes me take pause and think about how that's a sustainable model going forward.
I'm not a dev, and yea, they probably have a lot of plans for a lot of content in the future. But talking about pets during the alpha, only to bring it out now with a price tag when it costing money was never mentioned doesn't give me warm fuzzies, ya know?
In any case, I'm going to have a lot of fun just having this as my chill time game and enjoy anything that comes in the future.
Wait, I don't understand. You're saying that the only paid options are basically cosmetics (and coins, but that eliminates the grind, and what's the fun in that?). How is not having affordable outfit options going to affect free to play players? Personally I'm a cheap b and I never spend money on something that just "looks cool", no matter how cheap it would be. Mostly bc I know how it works - the cheap stuff are there only to break your mental barriers and make you crave more and more expensive things. So how exactly do the prices of cosmetics affect how long free to play players will play the game?
I feel the same! I was so sad to not be able to wear a cute poofy dress with a little cat friend following me around because the cosmetics are more expensive then most games I play D=
I'm more upset about the nerfs to the loot tables more than anything else
Oh I didn't know about that! I suppose with a beta version of a game they are always testing to see how things balance for good gameplay but that wasn't something i was aware of
@@Wickedy it's a nightmare trying to find coral and oysters now, I haven't noticed anything else so far. The clay is up though which is good
this is worse for people who live in countries that don't use dollar as their currency. I'm not going to pay a fortune in my country's currency just for clothes or a pet, do I want to have that things? yes, but unfortunately there is no way I can aford that. Maybe if they lowered the price to $5 only, like come on your game still in beta
The problem with Palia Discord is that it's the only outlet to express frustrations and suggestions. It's not a proper forum for lodging complaints, making suggestions, notifying of bugs, or just looking for help from the community. Palia needs actual forums for the community.
Did see the announcement for pets but had no idea they put it behind a paywall which is a bit disappointing. And yea when I first saw the premium store I was surprised at how expensive some of the stuff was. Hopefully they listen to community feedback and adjust pricing before it fully releases
Doesn't feel like a 50 million dollar game. Except the macro transactions.
50…. WHAT?
@@DutchessSarahJ That was the investment that we know they received to make this FPS game.
I havent had a chance to play this yet so I didn't know about this but you raise a lot of good points and as someone that has bought from a free to play shop ONCE and doesnt usually buy dlcs or something either due to budget spending $10 on an outfit and then not being able to enjoy updates if I haven't made a purchase sounds insane to me
also in my opinion if you have an option to only get $1 or $2 worth of in game currency you should be able to get something small for that $1 or $2 even if its like a little plant for your house or a different color swatch you can use on all of your clothes or something
I would think $10 outfits would make them more money because more people would be inclined to pay that. However I learned from Diablo 3 that too many people pay the $25+ for skins (that you can barely see) to the point its the new normal. Edit: For a free to play game I am happy to have a wardrobe only shop... if it was packed with different price ranges. As much enjoyment I get out of the Beta I am willing to shell out $10 and even $20 here and there to support the game and I gotta keep telling myself that what they have now is only beta and I need to wait and see what happens but its kinda hard.
You make some excellent points. I have spent money in the past on in game items, but as you were saying it added to the hame play. I just learned about Palia and it looks fun, but if it's too expensive to make my charter look how I want, it makes me not want to play. I worry as you said that it may become a hey look at me I have all the best cosmetic and furniture because I have lots of money. That would suck and make people not want to play especially since it advertised as a community building game a place to play with your friends. I hope it's sustainable and people who can not afford add ones don't miss out on game play.
I totally agree with this. I don't have much experience with these types of games, so I was shocked at the prices and the coin system. But my biggest disappoinment came when I found out there is a limit on farming plots of 9 with 2 of them being taken up by 2 blueberry bushes and 1 apple tree. SDV is my favorite game and I enjoy those type of games the most. Not being able to farm to my hearts content didn't sit well with me at all. Not being able to have an orchard didn't sit well with me. It pretty much killed the game for me. I'm pretty much at the end of the content and when you get to that point, you also realize how shallow it all is. It feels like a money grind to build and decorate a house game. That isn't enough for me.
Solid video and very valid critiques; I certainly see a few sides on the store pricing model. I DO wish there was a more direct dollar-to-item buy option and not the "always leave a few coins left over" bundle setup they have now and also wish there were lower cost items. While we disagree on if a pet following is "gameplay" (though we can probably both agree it's awesome), I hate that they DID put all of the palcats behind a buy. Sandy for free from a quest, a second color at maybe that $5.00 price point, and then the other two as a "buy more and these are a bonus" would have gone a long way, I think.
One thing I do want to note though is about the argument you make about "If 100 people spend $100, we make $3000, then if 600 people spend $5 we ALSO make $3000." While the math DOES check out, it's a pretty big assumption to make that 6x the number of people would make purchases. What happens when only 5x the people buy in? Or 4x? Sure, you have 400 customers instead of 100, but now there's $1000.00 left on the table. If those same 400 people happily spend $10.00, though, now we're up $1000. I don't think either of us have any sort of a retail psychology background or S6's research to know where that line is, but having worked for a local retailer who tried the "If we half the price, we'll sell three times as many and rich" method and went bankrupt, I think it's important to remember that that there's more to that equation than it appears on the surface.
Having outfits and pets is not a big deal in my opinion. What is a bigger deal is there not being options to get any additional clothing nor any other pets through playing the actual game. I was surprised there aren't any quests that give you any sort of cosmetics.
Chat 1 in the Palia discord been goin absolutely coo coo for cocoa puffs.
That being said shoutout my chat 2 homies, yall the real ones 💯😌
I think they're able to get away with saying there's "no additional gameplay" added with the palcats because, to most people, COMBAT = gameplay. Since Palia has very little combat, it can be argued that their definition of gameplay relies more on player experience with in-game characters and assets (as well as other people). Why wouldn't someone's pet/mount/companion be considered gameplay at that point?
I agree, they could go the way of FFXIV, Putting pets and mounts to Quests and dungeons or depending on the pet yes the premium store. like LE event pets and mounts that had passed over. Maybe even add some WoW in there and be able to tame the Pet we want.
I have played many MMORPGs, so my perspective is coming from my experience with those games. And honestly, the pricing is on par, if not even cheaper than in other games that have a cosmetic shop. That said I also don't understand why there isn''t an option to buy just one piece of clothing (boots, pants, shirt, hat) for even less. And I don't like the conversion rates - which to me are the predatory part of the shop that taint my "shoping experience". And I have had enough fun in the game already that I felt it is only fair to buy something out of the shop, just got hold back by this detail.
As you were talking I was thinking of Eden Eternal. It was so much fun I’m sad it closed, but it did really good with offering free and pay to play content and there were always people on. It’s been a while but if I’m remembering correctly it was a good balanced game.
i agree. This game must make money but, if things are too expensive, people just won't spend. I hope they add more affordable stuff in the future. I want to see this game succeed.
There's a big difference between a game earning our money and using exploitative tactics to manipulate us into paying them.
I definitely think you’re making a great point, hopefully things will change because the game has so much potential 😢
I hope so too
You have the kindest way of telling someone they suck.
Pay to win doesn't mean win the game it means literally win items.
Absolutely agree. I, personally, did purchase a premium skin and probably will buy more. Just how I am and can afford it. But I completely get and can see where you and many others are coming from. I really hope the Palia team keeps premium purchases to purely cosmetical and doesnt eventually push pay to "win" content (like potions that increase crafting speeds, increase harvesting drops, etc).
I currently like the look and play of the game. Yes, there are a lot of unpolished areas and things that could be added or fixed (like loading into your plot and find that your plot has meshed with another players plot). But the servers are stable at the moment, the quests work, the hidden secret areas that reward you for exploring the map are great. Crossing my fingers for a steady and fulfilling continued adventure in Palia.
I referred my friends, we were on a discord call when the patch notes released. We yelped with excitement as the idea of cats, but unfortunately my friend could not afford the base pet at this time and I could tell they were ready to abandon Palia almost immediately as we were spending 4 hrs daily playing this game since a week before open beta. I felt I had to gift her the money to get Sandy as I knew she was contemplating quitting after this experience.. I love the idea of Palia and enjoy it so much, but this wasnot an ideal move for them. While I can understand needing to make money to pay staff and continue producing content, the announcement of pets on the patchnotes wasn't even labeled as a premium item.. (*if I remember properly). Idk I have high hopes and I have faith they'll make this right. I bought the 3.6k coin bundle even though I'm not particularly enamored by anything in the shop, cause I wanted to experience Palcats so badly. Fingers crossed they bring some worth while items to the shop since im sitting pretty with all these coins, I guess LOL.
I've played the Sims for over fifteen years and I was around for the bad old days of the Sims 3 store (back when they were charging $20 for a world and $5 for individual items). This kind of has the same stink on it. I had thought about playing Palia, and might still give it a try, but definitely won't be investing any money into it.
This highlights something that honestly needs to be brought up, in the developers message on their discord, they mentioned that 'the pets are a gift to their supporting players,' which at first, when I read this before seeing the pets were essentially unlock-able via spending money, thought that was pretty wholesome and then got to the shop and saw what they did and immediately gave them the side-eye.
Your f2p players are still a form of support, yes they didn't support you monetarily, but at the end of the say f2p players are your hype, they are your hype-sqaud, when they are enjoying and telling others come and play the game who then give you another chance at a customer who may or may not buy into the your premium skins/deals/etc. that is a bonus for you and i that way they are supporting you.
This is coming from someone btw who did buy something in the shop.
Whether they did it intentionally or were just being a bit out-of-scope, it came off as ultimately a little snobbish, rude even. Maybe it wasn't their intention, but to outright refuse access to players who didn't outright pay for the game, but only for those who did so monetarily for an in-game item just doesn't sit well with me and a lot of people. Unfortunately for myself, the aspects of the game have been getting poorer and poorer--I gets its in beta and it may change soon, but the recent nerfs to things because apparently players were making too much, and the overall grindiness vs fun aspects for peeps doing something as minuscule as designing homes, its not looking good and my interest dwindles each day to log in. I don't have time to be cake-parties. flow-tree groups etc. So I feel the single player experience loses out on lot in this kind of system.
The cost of the outfit is not even what I didn't like... 50USD for a bundle with 3 outfits is an 'ok' cost for 3 outfits (it's 17USD each, yes, it's a lot, but considering the game is free and the item is just to look fancy it's fine). The problem is the Bundle itself. Each offers you 3 identical outfits with very minor changes... So it's basically pointless to buy a bundle as you're probably only going to use one version of the outfit =(
As for the cats, I accept it for now, because I believe the reason why the pets are only gifted if you used real money is because the game is not finished. For me, it makes sense, everyone will access pets in the gameplay later (with a quest or by finding them in the world). They just released it in a fancy version now to thank people who bought items, and probably to "make it up" because they realized people were not happy with the pricing. And I believe they did the right thing with that, they offered the cat to everyone why purchased something in the game (even before the patch).
Now you are right, if, when the game expands, the only way to get a pet is indeed the cash shop... It's going to be very upsetting :/
I'll be honest, I'm weak, I bought mine (I also love the game, so I thought it was fair, as I can afford it, to pay for the work they're doing) but I want the cash shop to stay that! A way to contribute to the game if you can, when you can. I don't want Palia to become a BDO, where the only way to have a nice house would be to buy the nice-looking furniture with real money. This would be a game-killer. They are not, for me, there already, but the line if tiny, and I'm also afraid they'll cross it.
The other problem imo is that you get bored pretty quick in the game cause there is nothing to do after a while anymore
The prices are certainly higher than I’m comfortable with but I still dropped $30 or so on the game. Honestly it’ll be the only time I do unless they lower the pricing a good bit.
As for the pay to win stuff, it’s been stated by them that premium items will only ever be purely cosmetic. I do hope they stick to that because so far they are doing pretty decent with the game and keeping things fair for the most part. (I’m not salty about the Chappa Chase event being a pain or anything.)
I'm glad that someone is actually addressing this outside of Reddit. It actually blew my mind that a company would be so greedy as to not just monetise their beta but have no shame as to how predatory the monetisation is.
The Discord is a lost cause but hopefully enough attention is given to these issues so that it'll actually be addressed and be a net positive for both the devs and the community as a whole and not just for the gatekeeping toxically positive community members.
My issue is the timing of it all. When these concerns are felt in the open beta instead of say - one year after launch, it sets a bad precident. If the game is struggling already, how long until those expensive outfits and pets disappear because the game died from mismanagement?
The devs need to cultivate good will and a sustainable, thriving, and growing playerbase before adding expensive purchases. The cheap stuff should have come first, with maybe one premium outfit, as well as a one for us, one for them approach to cosmetics (seriously, the basic palcat should have been free, with the variants being paid for)
The shop seems fine to me, but I play games like cs and Valorant some of those bundles go up to $100 and skins in cs can cost thousands. The fact you can buy single items for pretty cheap seems good to me. I'm meh about the pets because I don't view it as a game feature locked behind a paywall.
You know they fund raised the heck out of this game so right now all they really want is people playing their open beta. There are no reasons why they can't rehaul the cosmetic store later. They won't be hurting on money any time soon. It's an mmo by a smaller developing company, and this is actually a relatively good game for what is a early open beta access.
I think you're idea about having free (or earnable) pets with paid-option skins sounds great. I would be much more likely to pay for the game itself, even with in-game purchasing available, if you could earn most of the basic items like pets through game play or maybe a trading option with other players. IDK. I'm just now looking into this game but I agree with your points here.
This is a 100% correct. And it's even weirder when you have an NPC with a background story and passion for clothes and then you enter the shop and it's just naked mannequins.
I mean, if you have a tailor maybe also have a gameplay mechanic related to that since the furniture works the same (until you can sleep in a bed or sit on a chair I'll consider furniture cosmetic as well).
yep, i feel the same way
its a cute, fun little game - and ive enjoyed it so far but i am really worried with the model as we've seen it so far
i hope they get it together, id like to keep this game on my playlist for a while
thanks for speaking up~ :) :)
how can u get the coins without having to spend real money?
I value your opinions a lot and I think you are right with the overpriced stuff killing good games, I saw it most recently happen with Dreamlight Valley and, to an extent, the Sims 4 (with the community's dislike to kits). Thank you for addressing this issue!
What blows my mind with TS4 is people hating on the constant low-effort DLCs yet still admitting to buying them. How are they expecting EA to change if they keep giving them money?!
what would be interesting is the ability to convert gold that you acquire in-game into the store currency. Guild Wars 2 does this well by allowing you to either convert gold to gems or gems to gold. they also do allow you to use real money to get gems (which you can then convert to gold if you need to).
Lord of the Rings Online has tasks that let you rack up points for, when you complete tasks just casually playing or grinding, their store that you can spend on features, zone unlocks, expansions, etc. (and still give you option to spend real money, or do a monthly sub if you wish).
Yeah. Having options that allow premium currency to be more accessible to more ftp players is good for the longevity of the game. Even just allowing people to trade the currency between each other would be a step in the right direction and allow players to create their own economy
I'm hoping that the experience from what going on with the store now is taken as something that can be improved on and adjusted to let people enjoy the experience more. I'm doing my best to keep an open mind as this is still the beta version, perhaps a restructure of the shop will be in our future
I hope that the will introduce sewing later on and make it the same mechanics as furniture making, we already have a fabric maker, so it makes sense! I think it’s fine for them to sell Premium Stuff but I hate that there are no regular mechanics for collecting clothing. Some of the standard stuff is cute but there is not a lot of styles to choose from…
It's a fantastic game and I'm obsessed with it, but there is no way I'll be able to afford any of the premium shop stuff which sucks
You are absolutely on point with this video. I've honestly already left the game because of this. If they are already paywalling major features like this, they are going to do it for other features as well.
Right now I'd much rather play Stardew Valley tbh.
I'm falling in love with this game but when I saw the shop I was sssooooo disappointed. The prices are just out of line. The cat at $5 is great but you can't actually buy anything for just $5.
Does everything get wiped after the beta is over? or do we keep everything?
I agree fully. But remember guys this game is still in beta so things will change... for the better or for the worst it's still left to see. What I would do is create a currency that can be gotten without real money but being rather hard to get. That way ftp players have an option. For example, let's say a cosmetic costs 10 dollars. We could make the currency being 100 coins that can be difficult to get. That way people without much money can also enjoy them.
I think you are being pretty even-handed here. Greed, or even just short-sighted pricing decisions if you want to be less incendiary, can absolutely choke a F2P game, and I'll be frank in saying it's what has kept me wary of this game when I'd otherwise probably be all for it.
The way this popped up in my feed as soon as argon stopped streaming it 😅
I saw he was streaming and I wanted to hop on and be his friend, but I was editing this instead and it made me sad. It's still so fun though! I hope he had fun
True. They could have given us fewer free outfits and sell more at lower prices.
This reminds me heavily of Free realms. Amazing game glad theres something like it back.
I fully agree with the pricing being outrages as i am in South Africa and the exchange rate is crazy for me to afford buying stuff. I would like to support the devs too as i love the game but I shall just keep playing the free version and not spend money for now.
Worst part is a lot of Alfa testers told them this and they didn’t take the advice
Spot on Thank You👍
Best point i saw on this platform, about premium store :) this is exactly what i thought when i saw the prices.
The prices are even worse when you consider that in some places, 5 USD can be a weekly wage. There is no way people from developing countries can spend 50 on an outfit 🤨
I was taken aback when I saw the shop and the paywall for pets. Makes me think the endgame is targeting just whales. Turn the game into a wallet measuring competition.
ty for your honest take. Been eye this game. And wondering if I should invest time on it
I think the limited character creation system adds to the problem with the cosmetics. We all look like clones :O
Some more skintones would be lovely, or a wheel or slider too. I'm pale and want to look the part, and the darker tones are lacking a bit too.
@@Wickedy Same! I need a paler tone. The Warcraft vibes in the game are strong given the devs history at Blizzard. They took ages to address character models. The premium store was always pricey in WoW too.
I really hope the game developers/owners watch this because you laid it out perfectly!
my issues is all the bugs and glitches
Can you progress through the game without doing the main quest? Like if I just want to fish, can I fully level up fishing without progressing through the main quest?
This is why I can no longer play Disney Dreamlight Valley, hiding whole storylines behind a pay wall, while you have to pay for early acess, for a game that will be free eventually. Being reminded again and again that there are things I can not enjoy without paying for it made me miserable and makes me no longer wanting to play and especially not spend money on a game.
lol yes its very bugged i be chopping a tree or rock and i glitch i chop and i end up having to run back to what i was chopping and finish
Pleeeeeeeeease keep continue this... atleas at sundays. Pleeeeeeeeas!
A pet is not essential. I don't mind paying for optional items to support the game.
i totally agree, i got super excited seeing the real money cosmetics because they looked super nice, then i looked at the prices and immediately clicked out of the shop because of how ridiculously high it was. i was fully intending to buy some stuff until then. i buy cosmetics on games i love because they're generally not that expensive, but dropping £30-40 on an outfit is completely unreasonable to me. i think having a pricing system that is so high is going to turn a lot of people off
a free default option for things like pets is a great idea, i feel like that's what happens in most games like this. if the sandy cat was free and the others were paid, that would make much more sense in my opinion
Thanks for the info. I'm glad i don't have to spend my time trying this game
I whole heartedly feel this game should've been singleplayer with multilayer compatibility all of it reads as a single player game re packaged for more money