I had a roommate once from Bulgaria. She was a wonderful young woman in medical school who spoke great English and was everything you would want in someone who would come to live here, but she couldn't stay because she couldn't get citizenship (or get in line to get citizenship. I don't know why). I joked to her that if she went to Mexico and sneaked back over, the US gov't would *have* to let her stay because it would be powerless to deport her. Funny, huh?
you know what would be really amazing? if her own people treated her better than strangers in a foreign land. we are not the welcome mat for the worlds people. it seems like everyone has a rights except the people who already live here.
@@mayainverse9429 but she would be an asset... it's a win win solution... plenty of americans born here don't deserve to be here and should be swapped with people like her for example. It don't matter.
@@kubasniak when you are talking about immigration you are not talking about just 1 person you are talking about 10s of millions. we also already have enough social and political problems as it is we don't need to add more fuel to that. if you care about them so much go run for office in their home countries and change things there.
This is an incredibly frustrating debate. Essentially one side is arguing about the negative effects of *illegal* immigration, and another side is arguing the positive effects of *legal* immigration. Every time Tamar talks about "the job creators" and the "entrepreneurs," she's talking about skilled, legal immigrants, and using that argument to make amnesty more palatable. I wish they would have called her out on that.
All intelligence squared debates are leftwardly rigged...is that news to you? Trump is going to win 2020 because of this...immigration is the last hope holy grail the left is desperately clinging into and it thier undoing...
All intelligence squared debates are leftwardly rigged...is that news to you? Trump is going to win 2020 because of this...immigration is the last hope holy grail the left is desperately clinging into and it is thier undoing...
@@williamrice71 Why are people so easily divided on an issue of relatively small consequence. Do you not realize that the concentration of wealth and power is much more important as is climate change. Why not prioritize the greater common good? Make the government work for the people it inhabits as opposed to large corporations. As a progressive, I actually agree with you that illegal immigration needs to be mitigated. But for that to happen, you need more government funding to provide for those agencies that enforce immigration law. And for that, you need a stronger tax base, which means increased wages for workers, increased capital gains tax, stronger unions, and a tax on wealth. Additionally, we need a single payer system and to overturn Citizen's United. This all comes way before concerning ourselves with illegal immigration. Stop getting divided and distracted like the media conglomerates want you to be.
@@williamrice71 how’d that work out for ya dum dum? And most immigrants come from conservative family value backgrounds which is what republicans stand for right? Wouldn’t you welcome more voters for your party?
Advocating for merit-based immigration is a very different argument than advocating for open borders. The US can easily absorb 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 immigrants per year as long as the US immigration policy is based on merit. Afterall, the US is a Constitutional Federal Republic rather than a Democracy.
I like how the female debater uses an economic term like "investment' when it comes to educating immigrants. How about we invest in American citizens first?
+gideondavid30 Because Americans dont want to be invested in. Americans have chosen poor public education for years. There is no priority, they vote against reform and upping funding for education. There are still schools that teach creationism rather than serious science. no wonder half of all the Universtiy science graduates and a quater of all doctors are immigrants. Because they come from cultures that prioritize education and America doesnt. If you want Investment in America vote for someone that isnt afraid to pump some money into a real education system.
+Austin Steele 1. Do your research and look at how much money is spent per student here in America. It isn't a low figure. 2. Some Americans vote against reform. 3. Simply "upping funding" isn't the answer. You don't throw good money after bad. 4. Who cares about religious teachings like creationism. Yes, it is unscientific, but we have bigger problems like literacy. 5. The key is "CULTURE". Changing government policies doesn't do anything unless the culture is ripe for it. 6. America is 20 trillion dollars in debt. I'm sorry ... what you are advising is fiscal insanity. We need to be cutting across the board. 7. If you understood economics, you would know that government subsidies increases the cost of education; it doesn't decrease by any means. All we have is college students with worthless degrees and debt that they will never be able to pay off. College is a racket like everything else.
The majority of audience members responding are just people who feel a cultural connection to Mexico and react out of emotions. That's exactly the kind of cultural connection that they want to deny to Americans who don't identify as Mexican. This debate got so blurred what with the straw-men arguments presented by the opposition and the thick emotional gunk and garbled pseudo-statistics that it's not even comprehensible. So instead I'll just go with what I've seen from living in California all my life, yes the amount of Mexican people who don't identify as either American or even "Mexican-American" but as a foreign national doesn't surprise me one iota. No they aren't learning English, yes they are draining the welfare system which they haven't earned as citizens, yes they are 'Balkanizing' large areas of my state, and yes illegal means ILLEGAL. The only people who could support mass unskilled illegal migration are either brainwashed, culturally emotionally attached to Mexico, or complicit with the banksters/elites/owners of mega-corporations who benefit from paying 3rd worlders sub-standard wages instead of a living wage to American citizens. The liberal new yorker woman with the insufferable shrieks coming from out of her mouth is contradicting herself all over the place, and oh she only agrees with the "technical" arguments of the proponents of the debate; i.e. she disagrees on an emotional ideological metaphysical utopian masturbatory delusive level.
The open borders amnesty side of the debate completely ignores a basic fact: illegal immigration is illegal, and these people routinely break the law to remain here.
Yes we need to come together, black and white, white and black. See in the black community we are taught that black and brown should unite, I disagree I believe whites and blacks has created this country and fought for this country we should come together. We are the true Americans and we should not allow illegals tells us what they us to do, they did nothing but take. I love all white people even the KKK, we are all Americans and I love our country. We must unite and fight! :) Thank you.
If we can't even distinguish between illegal immigration from legal immigration - which jacoby & Castro can't seem to do - then we are not truly recognizing the problem are we?
Dude, you can't use poetic words as something to base your economy on. Yeah those words sound great, but are not practical. What every country needs is to import people that actually make the country better.
not to mention those words were meant for Europeans who have a shared background and culture. not every single 3rd world nation with murder and rape statistics exploding through the roof. it also implies that those poor and huddled masses actually not only accept but embrace american values and laws.
The side in favor of the motion won because they did a better job at framing their argument in a way that appealed to liberal sentiments. They pitted immigrants against the U.S. working class and spoke about the "dignity of work" that our youth would benefit from if they did the jobs immigrants are currently doing. The side arguing against the motion should have framed their argument in a more capitalistic way. They should have brought up the wealth and efficiency that both documented and undocumented immigrants bring, attacked the other side's position that somehow Americans will lower their standards and work the labor intensive jobs immigrants are doing, and bring up the questionable ethics of valuing the well being of relatively well of U.S. citizens in comparison to the poorer immigrants.
The ethics of valueing the well being of native born poor americans over another countries poor immigrants is not questionable. You have no idea how bad poverty is right here at home. You also are ignorant of the fact many of those poor central american immigrants have huge families and often own thier own home, or at least have a meal and place to sleep guarenteed to them back home, despite not having much material wealth. You have never traveled that is obvious!!
Modern immigrants and their descendants are actually learning English at a faster rate than European immigrants in the past. If that's not a sign of assimilation, I don't know what is.
kissfan7 I’ll debunk that in two seconds, the immigrants of the past were largely part of European subsets in which all of them spoke different languages among citizens who spoke English among other languages. Nowadays all immigrants immigrate to an America in which every citizen speaks English . Little easier to learn faster when every citizen speaks the language dontcha think?
Chris wipes the floor with the other side. Tom does well in this debate, which is surprising considering how poorly he did during the presidential debates.
I'm beginning to wonder how did that poem become the "Mission Statement" of the U.S.? Actually, I know how that happened -- it happened because people liked the way it gave the U.S. something to brag about-- it made them feel like they were oh, so generous. Think of it as a virtue signalling thing, like liberal/ left want to do today. The truth is that that statue never stood for what that poem says. The state's lamp represented the light of Knowledge which both the new colonists of this country and the citizens of France 10 yrs later both looked for, embraced,, and used that knowledge to become strong enough to break from their tyrannical governments. The Statue isn't holding a night light to show the poor of the world where to arrive-- it was to be imitated by all downtrodden people to use knowledge to become independent from oppressive govt. Emma Lazarus was a young woman of a wealthy Jewish family, she wrote the poem after being asked twice for an artistic entry in a contest that would collect funds to build a base for the statue. The inscription remained in a storage area for yrs before it was placed on the statue. Miss Lazarus's poem represented her wish that the poor Jewish people she watched arriving would one day succeed and become as well to do as her own family.
I agree. But for me I always wanted our black leaders and the KKK leaders to meet, so we can really come to understanding why so much hate for us. I would like to give them a chance to say what they have to say, I think this will be the first step of healing from years of pain and hate.
I worked on farms and ranches, and MOST of my Mexican counterparts sent most their money back to Mexico, paid little to nothing in taxes, never asked for a raise or a promotion, never complained when they got their hours shorted, bonuses stolen, lay reduced, etc. And yes! They paid almost nothing for food, medicine, eyecare, etc. There was so much charity or government programs set up for them to take advantage of. I felt like I was being paid half as much as them. They all had houses in Mexico's, sometimes two houses, and they still partied and wore all nikes and designer clothes.
Many were ashamed to receive government support and paid it back as soon as possible. I'm not sure exactly what has changed in our culture between then and now, and I'm not sure it would be possible to pin it on any one thing. But I can say that it is clear to me that immigrants are not the root of our cultural laziness.
The motion was argued cogently, rationally and with passion. The opposition was argued with exasperating delusion, self contradiction and passion. The result? Majority against, as expected from a New York audience.. motion itself won largest change - well done! :) .. too bad the majority that couldn't see the rationality of the argument also didn't figure out that they could simply have voted at outset 'undecided', and then won. Ha!
I realize I'm a little late in responding, however I must point out that we actually had similar rates of immigration respective to population at the other peaks of inflow in our history. This isn't a new phenomenon, and as such it isn't fair or accurate to place the burden of our "laziness" on the current wave of immigrants. Whether or not it comes from entitlement programs is another issue; but I would also like to point out that during the Great Depression, when the New Deal came into effect,
Why does the usually excellent moderator allow the woman on the panel to dominate the Conversation. No doubt she is smart & eloquent but also butts in, interrupts the point being made.by her opponent.
This I agree 100000% that is why now we have problems of my rights , your rights instead of being God's rights. We need to make sense of words, make sense of life. make sense of sense and sense will give us a great future.
If you transposed this woman's argument about "Americans don't want to do seasonal jobs" 1:28:00 onto any other ethnicity other than whites, you would immediately be called a racist. Here's what I mean (using her words, but transplanting "black" wherever she said "American"): "When the blacks learned that it's only a seasonal job and they would have to work outside, and it's physically tough, and it's outside work, they are leaving, because the blacks don't want those jobs."
By saying this, you're singlehandedly saying that only whites are American, and blacks aren't. The reason your transposition doesn't work is because the two aren't the same. The word American includes all races and backgrounds. It doesn't single out any one race, and therefore isn't racist. If anything, it's classism. Americans (all races) > immigrants (all races). Which isn't inherently wrong on its own. National pride is important. Yours before all else.
@@minamihasaki4325 Whites are the only real Americans, correct. This is why other races qualify themselves as “African-Americans” or “Muslim-Americans,” etc
@@minamihasaki4325Yes, whites are real Americans. This is why non-whites use qualifiers: “African-Americans,” “Muslim-Americans,” etc. this is also why non-white prefer their home country’s flag over the American flag. Whites fly the American flag.
No point in saying " God Bless America" God created earth to share not to defend , murder and not to share . God never created immigrants. All have human rights to go where they want. Only if you are a criminal your rights have been taken away from God.
If you argue that giving free education to illegal aliens is not a cost but an investment, then you can throw away all studies against illegal aliens. Giving away free medical services is not a cost but an investment.
The reason allowing poor unskilled uneducated ppl into America has worked so well thus far in history is that most of them don't have the access and advantages of America in their home countries. Plus people who take the time to immigrate also have more determination and intelligence than the average person. That's why 1st generation American immigrants actually tend to be better students and harder workers. Not to mention, at the end of the day, until automation takes over, we'll always need more unskilled workers than skilled. (For every manager, there's several (or more) cashiers)
Suuure, of course you’re not prejudiced. I mean why else would you call Tamara Jacoby a Jew when her mother wasn’t (maternal line usually decides that) and she herself doesn’t practice it either? Or a lesbian when she isn’t and even was married to a man? No, you’re totally not prejudiced. Judging people by their appearance is a rational, unbiased thing to do.
Mass immigration, legal or not, has put a serious strain on employment opportunity in America. Undercutting is real and widespread. The reason so many Americans WON'T work in a strawberry field is because of laziness. You don't think government entitlement contributes as well? Before the hippie phenomenon, hard work was not a topic of debate. Everybody did it and lived without complaining about the next person having more. We allowed too many in too fast. It's simply too much to handle.
Finish the WALL..!!!....Plz Mr.President...Immigrants..Plz leave our country..plz leave now..You dont Love us...The Sons and Daughters of the Land...So plz leave..our country alone...Our Home is Beautiful..dont dirty it like the Land u just left...Immigrants you have put anything into this.Land...We have the Sons and Daughters of the Soil...We have Loved Ones who have died protecting this Nation...Immigrants just have theyre hands out..and palms up..saying gimme gimme gimme..Join our Military and Earn our respect..First..Or plz find a grave at our National Cemetery..showing that you really really Love this Nation...
Sure, but since you're unemployed , if we kick the illegals out - food will cost much more. That's the issue. So this might hurt you more than it helps you. Georgia tried some very strict enforcements and they had produce rotting in the fields.
1:07:47 John Donvan, when a panelist is making a good point and is relating it to the topic like Kobach was doing, let them finish the point. Sometimes they provide a great jumping off point if your panelists are solid debaters, which they usually are. Instead you harp on boring questions like the snapshot guy vs Tancredo bit which had no detail or substance. And then you did it again against the outsourcing question! Dammit Donvan!
This is a complicated issue and both sides basically suck at defending. And its because they can't be honest. Most immigrants (anywhere really) have a problem with integration. If I moved to Japan I know my attitude, principles, and basic day to day way of doing things would have to be drastically changed, if I were to integrate successfully. Most immigrants are frankly not prepared for that kind of change. Hence, they stick out. And some stick out on purpose. To be individualistic. A sort of...
I came to the comments hoping to find an intelligent discussion on the issue, both sides treating the other with respect... I'm impressed with how far my hopes and the reality were. Bravo.
@amaha7861 "If you come to USA you have to speak English" Now please tell me, where did you learn how to write (punctuation, spelling, etc..)
7 ปีที่แล้ว +4
This is a horribly biased audience. But what would you expect, it's New York. Most of the people in this audience don't feel any impact from illegal or legal immigration. They don't compete with immigrants and immigration doesn't hurt them one little bit.
I agree with you, but blacks have played their part within this country as well. Whites made the salves do the hard labor. I love this country, my family for many years serve this country well (I will soon) These people from Mexico (and I'm San Antonio) these people are taking more then giving. Everything that Castro said is a lie, the pew poll said 70% of government benefits are to Mexicans 50% white, and 38 blacks. Things have changed and not in a good way.
I can imagine a lot of things. Obviously, so can you. The picture is big than my one small point. Don't judge my entire view on such little information that I've offered. You see, it's not "the republicans' fault," like so many finger pointers so enjoy to profess. The republicans do have their many, MANY faults... including them rolling over for the the democrats. GOVERNMENT is our problem. Filthy rich people = Government. See the correlation? Oh, yes, the libs are running things in gov. now.
Julian Castro was completely out of his depth and contributed nothing insightful to this debate. Tamar Jacoby was incredibly obnoxious with her constant gish-galloping, talking over people and ignoring the moderator’s privilege. Tancredo had some good points on the “for” side, but Kris Kobach was by far the more knowledgeable and insightful, and the most compelling of all the debaters.
Fair call, I live in Australia so I dont know the exacts of your country, but I do know our country does far too little and is focused only on the financial aspect, if your accepting 11 million then I think its fair to say you are doing your part, Australia lets in a few thousand and complains every for every new arrival from war torn Afghanistan.
1:16. One hour sixteen minutes in. The lesbian woman admits she's promoting slave trade! She said, either accept illegal immigrants or accept outsourcing. My belief is she wants both cause that's what she's paid for. Lol. She says she's an economist. But I believe she's not! She's actually a slave trader. There's ALWAYS an economic demand for slave worker! There is NEVER an economic demand for a well paid work force!
Racial diversity, religious diversity and multiculturalism is not, never was a benefit to another culture's and/or race benefit at all. Small minorities are fine as we have seen in the U.S.A but as soon as the minorities grow you will, very quickly, have a problem.
It's amazing that we should hold an entire debate on immigration, yet only briefly mention birth-rate or our declining work-force. Perhaps these are aspects of our culture we don't yet want to acknowledge: that we've given away too many traditional values - one's that maintain a healthy rate of reproduction - and instead now have to rely on what is essentially an artificial method of increasing population. In the end, our numbers are dwindling because we've become to distracted by simple-minded pleasures, and no longer interested in survival. Such a culture simply won't make it, and our decline is becoming more and more obvious. This debate is only possible because of it.
Well this debate has aged well. Now we have a government shutdown over a border wall and a petulant child president throwing a tantrum to meet his demands.
Off the top of my head Norway-Russia, and probably Kuwait-Iraq, borders have a bigger disparity in income levels than the US-Mexico one. The stuff about US giving more benefits to immigrants than any other western country is also utter bs. Well, perhaps if you look at the grand total instead of per capita, but that'd be just misleading. I guess you can get away with anything as long as you say it in a convincing manner. Let's see if I can bear to finish this one..
Shame they focused almost purely on the Financial aspect of the issue and almost completely avoided the moral issue. An epic topic narrowed down and too reliant on debatable statistics, would like to see another IQ2 debate on immigration in the future with more versatile debaters.
I think the debaters were good and the debate has substance. The title of the debate is awful. I think it exemplifies why it is hard to have a factual policy debate on the issue.
I can see what you're saying, I understand you're point of view for sure, I find it annoying how they get free fucking health care when most americans cant afford it, and how alot of them dont speak english really those 2 things about them piss me off. And by job's I meant dirt cheap labor that almost EVERYONE use's them for here, at least a few times.
Demands of investors for more workers, creates the flow of humanity to power the profits..... The people who drive this system seem to escape the actual costs of the system that powers their profits.... Marx pointed this out a long time ago. We just seem to insert our fingers into ears and say,"LaLaLa!" to all discussions.....
Open borders + free trade, that's what we need. Doesn't everyone like having the ability to freely up and move to California, or Texas or NY or whatever state we like? It would be great to extend that.
“Hurrr durrr, joke’s on you, I just PRETENDED to be a prejudiced hick!” Yeah, no, I don’t think so, bub. Given some of your other comments (especially some of the ones you wrote in Czech) make that seem pretty unlikely. Unless of course you claim that your entire account is you “being a funny politically incorrect jerk” but we both know that this is not the case ...
in a way...colonized. Mexico needs to get its act together and being so non-secular....this is going to take a long time. And anyone that's been to the Latino part of town can see the transition isn't going very smooth for the Mexicans America has let in. So my problem isnt with jobs, or not speaking the language (let me let you in on a little secret...they speak the language just fine) or illegals....it's the culture clash. You CANNOT take the baggage with you. And the same would go for me...
is it just me or is julian castro doing his best barack obama impersonation?
Toxically Masculine yes, especially in his hand gestures
Those "uhh"s should be trademarked.
"folks" "folks" folks" "folks"... he says "folks" more than Barack Obama
...By beholding (and admiring that annoying great dickhead of all times) Julian Castro became changed...
If he is then he'd shitty at it... But even if that's the case he's still better at imitating nobama than he is as a politician...
1:38:48 "Don't Give Us Your Tired, Your Poor, Your Huddled Masses..." because OUR tired and OUR poor American Citizens need help FIRST!
So vote Bernie Sanders 2020!
@@Alkalite hes a fraud.. hes a millionaire the so called dreaded 1% he hates so much that he part of .. ih the irony
I had a roommate once from Bulgaria. She was a wonderful young woman in medical school who spoke great English and was everything you would want in someone who would come to live here, but she couldn't stay because she couldn't get citizenship (or get in line to get citizenship. I don't know why). I joked to her that if she went to Mexico and sneaked back over, the US gov't would *have* to let her stay because it would be powerless to deport her. Funny, huh?
you know what would be really amazing? if her own people treated her better than strangers in a foreign land.
we are not the welcome mat for the worlds people. it seems like everyone has a rights except the people who already live here.
Christian Gerber 👍👍👍👍
@@mayainverse9429 but she would be an asset... it's a win win solution... plenty of americans born here don't deserve to be here and should be swapped with people like her for example. It don't matter.
@@kubasniak when you are talking about immigration you are not talking about just 1 person you are talking about 10s of millions. we also already have enough social and political problems as it is we don't need to add more fuel to that. if you care about them so much go run for office in their home countries and change things there.
@@mayainverse9429 where are your ancestors from? Go back their you nationalist moron
This is an incredibly frustrating debate. Essentially one side is arguing about the negative effects of *illegal* immigration, and another side is arguing the positive effects of *legal* immigration.
Every time Tamar talks about "the job creators" and the "entrepreneurs," she's talking about skilled, legal immigrants, and using that argument to make amnesty more palatable. I wish they would have called her out on that.
All intelligence squared debates are leftwardly rigged...is that news to you? Trump is going to win 2020 because of this...immigration is the last hope holy grail the left is desperately clinging into and it thier undoing...
All intelligence squared debates are leftwardly rigged...is that news to you? Trump is going to win 2020 because of this...immigration is the last hope holy grail the left is desperately clinging into and it is thier undoing...
@@williamrice71 Why are people so easily divided on an issue of relatively small consequence. Do you not realize that the concentration of wealth and power is much more important as is climate change. Why not prioritize the greater common good? Make the government work for the people it inhabits as opposed to large corporations. As a progressive, I actually agree with you that illegal immigration needs to be mitigated. But for that to happen, you need more government funding to provide for those agencies that enforce immigration law. And for that, you need a stronger tax base, which means increased wages for workers, increased capital gains tax, stronger unions, and a tax on wealth. Additionally, we need a single payer system and to overturn Citizen's United. This all comes way before concerning ourselves with illegal immigration. Stop getting divided and distracted like the media conglomerates want you to be.
@@williamrice71 how’d that work out for ya dum dum? And most immigrants come from conservative family value backgrounds which is what republicans stand for right? Wouldn’t you welcome more voters for your party?
Kris Kobach really understands this issue.
Advocating for merit-based immigration is a very different argument than advocating for open borders. The US can easily absorb 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 immigrants per year as long as the US immigration policy is based on merit. Afterall, the US is a Constitutional Federal Republic rather than a Democracy.
I like how the female debater uses an economic term like "investment' when it comes to educating immigrants.
How about we invest in American citizens first?
+gideondavid30 Because Americans dont want to be invested in. Americans have chosen poor public education for years. There is no priority, they vote against reform and upping funding for education. There are still schools that teach creationism rather than serious science. no wonder half of all the Universtiy science graduates and a quater of all doctors are immigrants. Because they come from cultures that prioritize education and America doesnt. If you want Investment in America vote for someone that isnt afraid to pump some money into a real education system.
+Austin Steele
1. Do your research and look at how much money is spent per student here in America. It isn't a low figure.
2. Some Americans vote against reform.
3. Simply "upping funding" isn't the answer. You don't throw good money after bad.
4. Who cares about religious teachings like creationism. Yes, it is unscientific, but we have bigger problems like literacy.
5. The key is "CULTURE". Changing government policies doesn't do anything unless the culture is ripe for it.
6. America is 20 trillion dollars in debt. I'm sorry ... what you are advising is fiscal insanity. We need to be cutting across the board.
7. If you understood economics, you would know that government subsidies increases the cost of education; it doesn't decrease by any means. All we have is college students with worthless degrees and debt that they will never be able to pay off. College is a racket like everything else.
Kris Kobach seems really smart
Why is Castro using stats that are 20+ years out of date??
They’re the only ones he could find to support his biased perspective.
Castro is full of crap.
The majority of audience members responding are just people who feel a cultural connection to Mexico and react out of emotions. That's exactly the kind of cultural connection that they want to deny to Americans who don't identify as Mexican. This debate got so blurred what with the straw-men arguments presented by the opposition and the thick emotional gunk and garbled pseudo-statistics that it's not even comprehensible. So instead I'll just go with what I've seen from living in California all my life, yes the amount of Mexican people who don't identify as either American or even "Mexican-American" but as a foreign national doesn't surprise me one iota. No they aren't learning English, yes they are draining the welfare system which they haven't earned as citizens, yes they are 'Balkanizing' large areas of my state, and yes illegal means ILLEGAL. The only people who could support mass unskilled illegal migration are either brainwashed, culturally emotionally attached to Mexico, or complicit with the banksters/elites/owners of mega-corporations who benefit from paying 3rd worlders sub-standard wages instead of a living wage to American citizens. The liberal new yorker woman with the insufferable shrieks coming from out of her mouth is contradicting herself all over the place, and oh she only agrees with the "technical" arguments of the proponents of the debate; i.e. she disagrees on an emotional ideological metaphysical utopian masturbatory delusive level.
The audience are low iq sheep e.g. human turds
Well said and Kris Kobach still won
The open borders amnesty side of the debate completely ignores a basic fact: illegal immigration is illegal, and these people routinely break the law to remain here.
Yes we need to come together, black and white, white and black. See in the black community we are taught that black and brown should unite, I disagree I believe whites and blacks has created this country and fought for this country we should come together. We are the true Americans and we should not allow illegals tells us what they us to do, they did nothing but take. I love all white people even the KKK, we are all Americans and I love our country. We must unite and fight! :)
Thank you.
If we can't even distinguish between illegal immigration from legal immigration - which jacoby & Castro can't seem to do - then we are not truly recognizing the problem are we?
A country of 315 million, a serious issue and yet only 5,189 views.....THIS is why America will fail
Here's some immigration reform: BUILD THE WALL. Then we can talk.
holy shit kris kobach murdered the audience and the opposition
Very interesting debate. I really enjoyed it. Thank you!
They never mentioned corporate and business owner slave trade?
Dude, you can't use poetic words as something to base your economy on. Yeah those words sound great, but are not practical. What every country needs is to import people that actually make the country better.
hellelujah. these people are just to take your eye off the ball...
not to mention those words were meant for Europeans who have a shared background and culture. not every single 3rd world nation with murder and rape statistics exploding through the roof. it also implies that those poor and huddled masses actually not only accept but embrace american values and laws.
Arguing emotions, not facts.
1st. round: toss up
2nd round: overwhelmingly Kobach and Tancredo
The side in favor of the motion won because they did a better job at framing their argument in a way that appealed to liberal sentiments. They pitted immigrants against the U.S. working class and spoke about the "dignity of work" that our youth would benefit from if they did the jobs immigrants are currently doing. The side arguing against the motion should have framed their argument in a more capitalistic way. They should have brought up the wealth and efficiency that both documented and undocumented immigrants bring, attacked the other side's position that somehow Americans will lower their standards and work the labor intensive jobs immigrants are doing, and bring up the questionable ethics of valuing the well being of relatively well of U.S. citizens in comparison to the poorer immigrants.
The ethics of valueing the well being of native born poor americans over another countries poor immigrants is not questionable. You have no idea how bad poverty is right here at home. You also are ignorant of the fact many of those poor central american immigrants have huge families and often own thier own home, or at least have a meal and place to sleep guarenteed to them back home, despite not having much material wealth. You have never traveled that is obvious!!
Watch until the end...Kris's closing statement demonstrates debate adroitness.
Modern immigrants and their descendants are actually learning English at a faster rate than European immigrants in the past. If that's not a sign of assimilation, I don't know what is.
kissfan7 I’ll debunk that in two seconds, the immigrants of the past were largely part of European subsets in which all of them spoke different languages among citizens who spoke English among other languages. Nowadays all immigrants immigrate to an America in which every citizen speaks English . Little easier to learn faster when every citizen speaks the language dontcha think?
Internet.
Wow. I am shocked at the vote for the debate and disgusted by the anti-immigrant comments here. What is wrong with people?
Chris wipes the floor with the other side. Tom does well in this debate, which is surprising considering how poorly he did during the presidential debates.
The system is broken due to non enforcement ...enforce the current laws and problem solved...
I'm beginning to wonder how did that poem become the "Mission Statement" of the U.S.? Actually, I know how that happened -- it happened because people liked the way it gave the U.S. something to brag about-- it made them feel like they were oh, so generous. Think of it as a virtue signalling thing, like liberal/ left want to do today. The truth is that that statue never stood for what that poem says. The state's lamp represented the light of Knowledge which both the new colonists of this country and the citizens of France 10 yrs later both looked for, embraced,, and used that knowledge to become strong enough to break from their tyrannical governments. The Statue isn't holding a night light to show the poor of the world where to arrive-- it was to be imitated by all downtrodden people to use knowledge to become independent from oppressive govt. Emma Lazarus was a young woman of a wealthy Jewish family, she wrote the poem after being asked twice for an artistic entry in a contest that would collect funds to build a base for the statue. The inscription remained in a storage area for yrs before it was placed on the statue. Miss Lazarus's poem represented her wish that the poor Jewish people she watched arriving would one day succeed and become as well to do as her own family.
I agree. But for me I always wanted our black leaders and the KKK leaders to meet, so we can really come to understanding why so much hate for us. I would like to give them a chance to say what they have to say, I think this will be the first step of healing from years of pain and hate.
Well said. Best wishes to you, Brittany.
I worked on farms and ranches, and MOST of my Mexican counterparts sent most their money back to Mexico, paid little to nothing in taxes, never asked for a raise or a promotion, never complained when they got their hours shorted, bonuses stolen, lay reduced, etc.
And yes! They paid almost nothing for food, medicine, eyecare, etc. There was so much charity or government programs set up for them to take advantage of. I felt like I was being paid half as much as them. They all had houses in Mexico's, sometimes two houses, and they still partied and wore all nikes and designer clothes.
Many were ashamed to receive government support and paid it back as soon as possible. I'm not sure exactly what has changed in our culture between then and now, and I'm not sure it would be possible to pin it on any one thing. But I can say that it is clear to me that immigrants are not the root of our cultural laziness.
The 14,000 million unemployed Americans would be a starter.......ON POINT
The motion was argued cogently, rationally and with passion. The opposition was argued with exasperating delusion, self contradiction and passion. The result? Majority against, as expected from a New York audience.. motion itself won largest change - well done! :) .. too bad the majority that couldn't see the rationality of the argument also didn't figure out that they could simply have voted at outset 'undecided', and then won. Ha!
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Bon voyage.
I realize I'm a little late in responding, however I must point out that we actually had similar rates of immigration respective to population at the other peaks of inflow in our history. This isn't a new phenomenon, and as such it isn't fair or accurate to place the burden of our "laziness" on the current wave of immigrants. Whether or not it comes from entitlement programs is another issue; but I would also like to point out that during the Great Depression, when the New Deal came into effect,
Why does the usually excellent moderator allow the woman on the panel to dominate the Conversation. No doubt she is smart & eloquent but also butts in, interrupts the point being made.by her opponent.
The poor wretch admits defeat. Fine by me.
This I agree 100000% that is why now we have problems of my rights , your rights instead of being God's rights.
We need to make sense of words, make sense of life. make sense of sense and sense will give us a great future.
If you transposed this woman's argument about "Americans don't want to do seasonal jobs" 1:28:00 onto any other ethnicity other than whites, you would immediately be called a racist. Here's what I mean (using her words, but transplanting "black" wherever she said "American"): "When the blacks learned that it's only a seasonal job and they would have to work outside, and it's physically tough, and it's outside work, they are leaving, because the blacks don't want those jobs."
By saying this, you're singlehandedly saying that only whites are American, and blacks aren't. The reason your transposition doesn't work is because the two aren't the same. The word American includes all races and backgrounds. It doesn't single out any one race, and therefore isn't racist. If anything, it's classism. Americans (all races) > immigrants (all races). Which isn't inherently wrong on its own. National pride is important. Yours before all else.
@@minamihasaki4325 Whites are the only real Americans, correct. This is why other races qualify themselves as “African-Americans” or “Muslim-Americans,” etc
@@minamihasaki4325Yes, whites are real Americans. This is why non-whites use qualifiers: “African-Americans,” “Muslim-Americans,” etc. this is also why non-white prefer their home country’s flag over the American flag. Whites fly the American flag.
The best debate ever !
No point in saying " God Bless America" God created earth to share not to defend , murder and not to share . God never created immigrants. All have human rights to go where they want. Only if you are a criminal your rights have been taken away from God.
If you argue that giving free education to illegal aliens is not a cost but an investment, then you can throw away all studies against illegal aliens. Giving away free medical services is not a cost but an investment.
Shouldn’t we invest on the people already here before we invest on people who break our laws to come here?
The reason allowing poor unskilled uneducated ppl into America has worked so well thus far in history is that most of them don't have the access and advantages of America in their home countries. Plus people who take the time to immigrate also have more determination and intelligence than the average person. That's why 1st generation American immigrants actually tend to be better students and harder workers. Not to mention, at the end of the day, until automation takes over, we'll always need more unskilled workers than skilled. (For every manager, there's several (or more) cashiers)
Suuure, of course you’re not prejudiced. I mean why else would you call Tamara Jacoby a Jew when her mother wasn’t (maternal line usually decides that) and she herself doesn’t practice it either? Or a lesbian when she isn’t and even was married to a man? No, you’re totally not prejudiced. Judging people by their appearance is a rational, unbiased thing to do.
Mass immigration, legal or not, has put a serious strain on employment opportunity in America. Undercutting is real and widespread. The reason so many Americans WON'T work in a strawberry field is because of laziness. You don't think government entitlement contributes as well? Before the hippie phenomenon, hard work was not a topic of debate. Everybody did it and lived without complaining about the next person having more. We allowed too many in too fast. It's simply too much to handle.
Finish the WALL..!!!....Plz Mr.President...Immigrants..Plz leave our country..plz leave now..You dont Love us...The Sons and Daughters of the Land...So plz leave..our country alone...Our Home is Beautiful..dont dirty it like the Land u just left...Immigrants you have put anything into this.Land...We have the Sons and Daughters of the Soil...We have Loved Ones who have died protecting this Nation...Immigrants just have theyre hands out..and palms up..saying gimme gimme gimme..Join our Military and Earn our respect..First..Or plz find a grave at our National Cemetery..showing that you really really Love this Nation...
Sure, but since you're unemployed , if we kick the illegals out - food will cost much more. That's the issue. So this might hurt you more than it helps you. Georgia tried some very strict enforcements and they had produce rotting in the fields.
Bernie 2020!!!
wow, I lol'd at this entire exchange
Would not limiting low-skill workers--illegal or not--allow us to select with our immigration policies for HIGH-SKILL workers?
One word, Canada :)
1:07:47
John Donvan, when a panelist is making a good point and is relating it to the topic like Kobach was doing, let them finish the point. Sometimes they provide a great jumping off point if your panelists are solid debaters, which they usually are. Instead you harp on boring questions like the snapshot guy vs Tancredo bit which had no detail or substance. And then you did it again against the outsourcing question! Dammit Donvan!
Yes, I wish he’d been as strict with the woman on the other side of the debate.
This is a complicated issue and both sides basically suck at defending. And its because they can't be honest. Most immigrants (anywhere really) have a problem with integration. If I moved to Japan I know my attitude, principles, and basic day to day way of doing things would have to be drastically changed, if I were to integrate successfully. Most immigrants are frankly not prepared for that kind of change. Hence, they stick out. And some stick out on purpose. To be individualistic. A sort of...
I live near Hazelton! He is speaking the truth!
I came to the comments hoping to find an intelligent discussion on the issue, both sides treating the other with respect... I'm impressed with how far my hopes and the reality were. Bravo.
I feel bad for anyone who even attempts to debate kris kobach
@amaha7861 "If you come to USA you have to speak English" Now please tell me, where did you learn how to write (punctuation, spelling, etc..)
This is a horribly biased audience. But what would you expect, it's New York. Most of the people in this audience don't feel any impact from illegal or legal immigration. They don't compete with immigrants and immigration doesn't hurt them one little bit.
Born and raised in US with grammar like that.
I agree with you, but blacks have played their part within this country as well. Whites made the salves do the hard labor. I love this country, my family for many years serve this country well (I will soon) These people from Mexico (and I'm San Antonio) these people are taking more then giving. Everything that Castro said is a lie, the pew poll said 70% of government benefits are to Mexicans 50% white, and 38 blacks. Things have changed and not in a good way.
I can imagine a lot of things. Obviously, so can you. The picture is big than my one small point. Don't judge my entire view on such little information that I've offered. You see, it's not "the republicans' fault," like so many finger pointers so enjoy to profess. The republicans do have their many, MANY faults... including them rolling over for the the democrats. GOVERNMENT is our problem. Filthy rich people = Government. See the correlation? Oh, yes, the libs are running things in gov. now.
Julian Castro was completely out of his depth and contributed nothing insightful to this debate. Tamar Jacoby was incredibly obnoxious with her constant gish-galloping, talking over people and ignoring the moderator’s privilege. Tancredo had some good points on the “for” side, but Kris Kobach was by far the more knowledgeable and insightful, and the most compelling of all the debaters.
Fair call, I live in Australia so I dont know the exacts of your country, but I do know our country does far too little and is focused only on the financial aspect, if your accepting 11 million then I think its fair to say you are doing your part, Australia lets in a few thousand and complains every for every new arrival from war torn Afghanistan.
Those immigrants that create jobs at tech companies are not from South America - they are from Asia & Europe
That’s exactly the point. Everything is looked at from the lens directed at the southern border and not the totality of immigration.
1:16. One hour sixteen minutes in. The lesbian woman admits she's promoting slave trade! She said, either accept illegal immigrants or accept outsourcing. My belief is she wants both cause that's what she's paid for. Lol. She says she's an economist. But I believe she's not! She's actually a slave trader. There's ALWAYS an economic demand for slave worker! There is NEVER an economic demand for a well paid work force!
You ever break a law? you're illegal too by that logic.
If you don't want students to be challenged then don't teach them!
Racial diversity, religious diversity and multiculturalism is not, never was a benefit to another culture's and/or race benefit at all. Small minorities are fine as we have seen in the U.S.A but as soon as the minorities grow you will, very quickly, have a problem.
The US. is still a kid FYI -_-
It's amazing that we should hold an entire debate on immigration, yet only briefly mention birth-rate or our declining work-force. Perhaps these are aspects of our culture we don't yet want to acknowledge: that we've given away too many traditional values - one's that maintain a healthy rate of reproduction - and instead now have to rely on what is essentially an artificial method of increasing population. In the end, our numbers are dwindling because we've become to distracted by simple-minded pleasures, and no longer interested in survival. Such a culture simply won't make it, and our decline is becoming more and more obvious. This debate is only possible because of it.
"Tired" doesn't seem right in the title. Immigrants are full of energy usually. That's why they're prepared to do menial jobs.
Amazon beats their prices
Or are we past the point of no return
Where are there economists? Jason Riley is very informative economist on immigration.
Well this debate has aged well. Now we have a government shutdown over a border wall and a petulant child president throwing a tantrum to meet his demands.
Tancredo broke down in the end...
Off the top of my head Norway-Russia, and probably Kuwait-Iraq, borders have a bigger disparity in income levels than the US-Mexico one. The stuff about US giving more benefits to immigrants than any other western country is also utter bs. Well, perhaps if you look at the grand total instead of per capita, but that'd be just misleading.
I guess you can get away with anything as long as you say it in a convincing manner. Let's see if I can bear to finish this one..
That’s shown as false, especially in todays current illegal immigrant crisis
Shame they focused almost purely on the Financial aspect of the issue and almost completely avoided the moral issue.
An epic topic narrowed down and too reliant on debatable statistics, would like to see another IQ2 debate on immigration in the future with more versatile debaters.
I completely agree with you.
there is no benefit
what is it to be human??? will make us have a great safe life.
The woman is white...
I think the debaters were good and the debate has substance. The title of the debate is awful. I think it exemplifies why it is hard to have a factual policy debate on the issue.
I can see what you're saying, I understand you're point of view for sure, I find it annoying how they get free fucking health care when most americans cant afford it, and how alot of them dont speak english really those 2 things about them piss me off. And by job's I meant dirt cheap labor that almost EVERYONE use's them for here, at least a few times.
Tom Tancredo? Why are there nativists there?
i learned in school. why?
How can we speak on immigration on not mention 'Free Trade' and the impact IT has on immigration/migration in the u.s.
how about we speak about we can still buy taco mix if the mexicans make it in mexico and ship it to us
43:50
Do not understand this comment?? make me understand. thanks.
What comment?
Demands of investors for more workers,
creates the flow of humanity
to power the profits.....
The people who drive this system
seem to escape the actual costs of
the system that powers their profits....
Marx pointed this out a long time ago.
We just seem to insert our fingers into
ears and say,"LaLaLa!" to all discussions.....
Open borders + free trade, that's what we need. Doesn't everyone like having the ability to freely up and move to California, or Texas or NY or whatever state we like? It would be great to extend that.
“Hurrr durrr, joke’s on you, I just PRETENDED to be a prejudiced hick!”
Yeah, no, I don’t think so, bub. Given some of your other comments (especially some of the ones you wrote in Czech) make that seem pretty unlikely. Unless of course you claim that your entire account is you “being a funny politically incorrect jerk” but we both know that this is not the case ...
The guy in the suit should not say illegal aliens constantly
They are still human beings
*you're
Tancredo does nothing to dispel the feeling that the GOP is a nasty Party lacking in generosity
in a way...colonized. Mexico needs to get its act together and being so non-secular....this is going to take a long time. And anyone that's been to the Latino part of town can see the transition isn't going very smooth for the Mexicans America has let in. So my problem isnt with jobs, or not speaking the language (let me let you in on a little secret...they speak the language just fine) or illegals....it's the culture clash. You CANNOT take the baggage with you. And the same would go for me...
Too bad the comment section doesn’t show the same openness and respect as these debators
Yeah, political correctness, I’m assuming. I continue to not see how this applies to my comment.