Bro you inspired me to build a battery over two years ago. I decided to use these cells. It changed the game! Car audio SPL competition. I replaced 400 lb of battery with one 60 lb 45 amp hour. I charge at around 15.4 volts. They're super impressive. I clamped around 12,400 watts on a burp. Starting voltage was 15.6 and it went down to 15.0. stock 110 amp alternator with adjustable regulator. . There are some rules to using these batteries. And they cannot be broken but they work amazing. Thanks for your help understanding all this
I saw one other comment about having them compressed. please dont ignore this. these cells will swell if they are not compressed. your board will still work fine, you just need something very strong to hold these from swelling. i have seen these blow out the side of a plywood box
For the thermal imager, be aware that reflective surfaces like a shiny metal standoff will just reflect the temperature of its surroundings which can throw you off.
For what its worth dollar tree sell plastic cutting boards that make good separations for the cells super cheap and easy to cut and a heat gun or tea kettle will let you bend them into shapes that make them useful
Really nice and clean design. Electrician nut drivers (much like electrician screwdrivers) have almost all of the exposed metal covered in insulation. Maybe the hotspot at 13:19 is caused by a bit of a current imbalance between the two BMS. The 'hot' BMS has a shorter ground path, where as the other BMS has a longer and narrow path resulting in a bit more resistance. This has an impact on current sharing; probably negligible in this case. Your positive trace/pour can counter act this, much like connecting positive and negative cables on opposite ends of battery arrays.
i bought the bigger ones 3 years ago and they been working great and are easy to make, mine came with the nickel bars as well with sensor cables. I have 15 kw worth, think there 21 or 26 ah each and have like a 150 amp discharge each, plus there in packs of 13 so its almost 2000 amp discharge max.
If you are giving away the circuit board files for free, all I can say is thanks DIY is the only way some of would ever afford the lithium battery technology that's powering more of the world's new products
Was trying to get a feel for the physical size of those battery packs you were building in this video. Would one of those packs you bulit work as a battery pack for an E-bike with 52.6v 11.5Ah?
Why are the power leading standoffs not visible in the thermo picture ? Usually the should get as warm as the cable to the inverter. I would have thought that the terminals on the pcb like the stand offs would be "more visible" in that picture.
I agree w/ @Paul S, seems like these are always sold out on the website. Hey Jehu! how do we get these batteries and kits? Is there a way to pay upfront and get on the wait list?
Wow, seeing them by themselves they seemed large til you hand enters the frame. I'm trying to find a solution for a external pack for my 230w laptop. Looking to do a 24v system stepped down to 19.5v, 12a.
It's really cool of you to open source stuff like this. Seriously, very kind of you. Think you'll be getting more cmax in stock in the next few months?
Jehu is it possible to get on a waiting list to get the next batch of your "NEW C-MAX HYBRID FUSION BATTERIES PANASONIC CELLS 3.7V 5AH -"? Sorry, this was a cut and paste.
Soldering the BMS leads like that is fine but I would double/triple check you didn't short any adjacent pins. For the sake of adhesion probably better to use rectangular pads for the soldering instead of standard throughholes (unless you plan on eventually using a connector)
If you get any more of these cMax 48v Battery Modules please let me know I need one or two. I have the batteries already [ Honda Insight ] and I didn't know you had these until now. I need a couple please. I want to use them for solar but have been unable to figure out wiring and bms. Now you have a sweet solution. Please help me Jehu ready to buy them now.
Nice system. Many greetings from Germany, do you also send to Germany? 😅 Would something like this be usable as a 12V system (with a cover) in a car? Especially because of the temperature ranges -10°C to 40°C
Hi Andi, haven't seen Jehu delivering to Europe eversince. But I may be wrong. And never say never. 😉 Suitable as 12V starter battery for cars? I don't think so. IIRC, the German KBA / TÜV objects due to fire hazard in conjunction with petrol nearby. You already delivered a proof of concept with even less powerful cells, so it's all about permission. Unfortunately. (This is why I use a 12V-6Ah-60C LFO starter battery for my Honda PanEuropean.) CU on your channel, Doc! 👋
Ah, nice. Those typical car starter batteries and jump-starters (if already Lithium chemistry). Nearly exactly the stats of my (ICE) motorbike's starter battery (well, a quarter of the power of course, since it's the usual 12V). Using it for about 5 years, flawlessly. Edit: Correction, mine are LFO (12V, 6Ah -> 72Wh, 360A max. -> 60C). Mistook yours for also LFO.
I like Jehu's 7s 18650 pcb setup, and this looks cool as well. Is there a similar setup for a 4s or 8s 26650 lifepo4 available by chance? Because I bought too many of those cells.
@@jehugarcia These batteries are really cool! NICE WORK! I will be ordering one! I have 3x of the whole system the way it came in the C-Max car. The 6"tall x 18"wide x 48"long metal shielded unit has a 300v in to bms and then a high power out to motor which I would cap but also a 300 dc to 12vdc inverter to charge the starter battery. Kind of curious what would happen If I hooked up my solar panels to the 300v in and 12v out to lead acid golf cart bank. Seems like a great standalone system assuming everything just automatically worked.
I second this comment. Im in car audio and have seen several large cmax banks turn into bananas as they will swell without compression. please test thoroughly before putting these in any type of unmonitored use case
@@yolo_burrito yeah that’s why I wanted him to explain the difference in chemistry and which is for what application. Another video, more views, and of course would be an awesome video:
I have a question and have watched many videos, say I have a cart with a brushless motor works on 12 V or 24V with no load provides .5 n meters how many mah do I need to turn that 12 inch wheel with 30lbs. Which would work better 2 five battery packs run parallel run in series with 2 packs in parallel I guess getting 24 V 29,000mha or 12v with 4 packs run in series? 60,000 Mha
Jehu, what thickness of copper did you order on the boards? 2oz, 4oz, what exactly? This would make a major difference to the current carrying and heating.
What a absolute great design Jehu. Thank you again for pushing this technology and Hobbie. Are there any dimensions available L×W×H of the completed 48v package? Also any plans to add a design board in 60v or 72v with the exact same setup pcb board, dual bms, etc . I can't wait for the item to become available.
Could some of this battery pack replace a regular 12v 70AH lead or agm battery in a car with start stop function? Maybe other connected not to have 48v instead parallel for much more output power?
So your saying we have to go to your site, download a file then upload that file to another site in order to get the PCB's that we need, then we have to order the parts from the parts list your listing from a third site ? Is this how it works ?
@@jehugarcia who said I made up my mind? I just don't think that a 1mm thick copper trace can handle 10 times the amperage of a 3mm thick wire. Prove it can.
The reason that the traces can handle higher currents is simpe, current flows on the surface of the conductor and a 3mm round cable has half the surface than a 1mm x 6mm copper trace. Jehu might not have the scientific background needed to explain to you the why of things but he has huge practical experience, your doubts are just based on ignorance.
I see the board has vias to help with heat. Do they also help with current distribution across the wide traces? Maybe you could do a video on high current PC board design.
Is this really about to start I hate premieres but what an odd time I saw your post about these cells but just didn't really see a good use for them for me right now
$5 for 5ah 3.7 /4.2 volt cell, or $70 for a 48volt pack (cells only). That would cost a lot to make a useful pack/Powerwall. for 50ah it would be $700! (cells only) or $1,290 for the kits you sell. or $1400 for 100ah(for just the cells) or $2,580 for your kits. I will stick to my Lifepo4 cells, its cheaper. I guess I am confused on why these cells are interesting to anyone, I understand these are a blend NMC cells but the cost per kwh is WAY to high for those. I guess these could be used in an ebike since most of those are 5 to 10ah anyways, I'm not trying to be a " Debbie Downer" and I LOVE your PCB designs, I wish you would come up with more of those PCB's for Lifepo4 cells, I would buy those kits in a heartbeat! Keep up the good work man!
High discharge Rate is what makes them interesting for some applications, for example drones or RC planes etc. The cheap LFP batteries are great for powerwalls, but you could not use them for drones, lightweight applications etc. because their power density [W/kg] or [W/L] is too low
right, always the same problem, using IR cameras is easy, interpreting the results needs a little know-how shiny metal surfaces can not be measured with IR cameras in the same "frame" the keyword is emissivity
Bro you inspired me to build a battery over two years ago. I decided to use these cells. It changed the game! Car audio SPL competition. I replaced 400 lb of battery with one 60 lb 45 amp hour. I charge at around 15.4 volts. They're super impressive. I clamped around 12,400 watts on a burp. Starting voltage was 15.6 and it went down to 15.0. stock 110 amp alternator with adjustable regulator. . There are some rules to using these batteries. And they cannot be broken but they work amazing. Thanks for your help understanding all this
Great vid, so nice of you to be open and share your resources, I am very greatful.
All I Gotta say is you do amazing work man
I saw one other comment about having them compressed. please dont ignore this. these cells will swell if they are not compressed. your board will still work fine, you just need something very strong to hold these from swelling. i have seen these blow out the side of a plywood box
We use these in competition car audio systems! YOU MUST COMPRESS!
How many In series do you use?
Well, go ahead and compress them, you don’t need my blessing
@@jehugarcia I think people do 4 or 5s but they also do like 4 to 10p regularly
I watch all of jehu’s videos wishing I could think of a use for a battery. So far, I’m picturing a monster power wall.
That's really SOMETHING!
For the thermal imager, be aware that reflective surfaces like a shiny metal standoff will just reflect the temperature of its surroundings which can throw you off.
Wow! These are really cute little 5ah cells. Interesting way to put them together. Cheers brother!
This is great. Love the engineering
Not going to lie, this is super clean. Good job Jay.
Low capacity but high output. Limited application use but a very clean and well thought out build. I have no use for this battery but I want one!
For what its worth dollar tree sell plastic cutting boards that make good separations for the cells super cheap and easy to cut and a heat gun or tea kettle will let you bend them into shapes that make them useful
I saw those, need to pickup 1 soon, iirc it's a 2 pack for a buck.
@@themadatheist1976 yup that's the one two for a buck
Game changer thanks bro
Thank you Jahu, that was very informative. Have a great day. Besr regards M
You are the best teacher professor hands on trainer ever lol 😂
This is a great project and I can't wait. You are always selling systems in the 30ish volt range that i have no use for but some 14S I can use.
Really nice and clean design. Electrician nut drivers (much like electrician screwdrivers) have almost all of the exposed metal covered in insulation.
Maybe the hotspot at 13:19 is caused by a bit of a current imbalance between the two BMS. The 'hot' BMS has a shorter ground path, where as the other BMS has a longer and narrow path resulting in a bit more resistance. This has an impact on current sharing; probably negligible in this case. Your positive trace/pour can counter act this, much like connecting positive and negative cables on opposite ends of battery arrays.
Just an idea for v2, you should put replaceable balances fuses on the PCB boards to prevent bowing the traces.
Or at least a pack fuse...
Really cool components, the closest I have ever worked with was Taranis Energy here in Canada and used their PCB boards for a fun small project
YOU MUST COMPRESS THOSE CELLS!
I have some of these, I was going to use it for my golf cart.
you know it's good stuff when everything youd want off the site is sold out
i bought the bigger ones 3 years ago and they been working great and are easy to make, mine came with the nickel bars as well with sensor cables. I have 15 kw worth, think there 21 or 26 ah each and have like a 150 amp discharge each, plus there in packs of 13 so its almost 2000 amp discharge max.
Damn, that looks too pretty man !! :D :D
Yup it looks like a factory production battery
@@ronaldharris6569 its a damn tease, they already sold out :D :D damn
@@CarlosGomez-sd9ey seriously? That blows
please give us a 24V version and an european reseller for the boards! You're really doing an awesome job Jehu! Thank you!
You can download the Gerber files and upload them to EuroCircuits.
@@MiesvanderLippe thanks!
Hope for a 12v version
@@Setola if you did please post a link :)
Which software did you use? Gracias
If you are giving away the circuit board files for free, all I can say is thanks DIY is the only way some of would ever afford the lithium battery technology that's powering more of the world's new products
Very nice! Well designed. I'd like to see you wrap the screwdriver and nutdriver in some kapton tape, for safety's sake!
When you will ship in Canada my friend ?
These can and will do over 20c no problem
looks fun. if i didnt already buy 48v batteries....
Great video how many of those pack would you need for your van
Was trying to get a feel for the physical size of those battery packs you were building in this video. Would one of those packs you bulit work as a battery pack for an E-bike with 52.6v 11.5Ah?
Why are the power leading standoffs not visible in the thermo picture ?
Usually the should get as warm as the cable to the inverter. I would have thought that the terminals on the pcb like the stand offs would be "more visible" in that picture.
shiny things are also shiny to heatwaves
I agree w/ @Paul S, seems like these are always sold out on the website. Hey Jehu! how do we get these batteries and kits? Is there a way to pay upfront and get on the wait list?
I need a 48v 100ah battery for my riding law mower. Would these work?
Why would you use 2 BMS? what's the advantage in that? One for charge and one for discharge?
Hi Jehu. Is there any possibility you'll be able to start shipping to the UK?
Wow, seeing them by themselves they seemed large til you hand enters the frame. I'm trying to find a solution for a external pack for my 230w laptop.
Looking to do a 24v system stepped down to 19.5v, 12a.
It's really cool of you to open source stuff like this. Seriously, very kind of you. Think you'll be getting more cmax in stock in the next few months?
Awesome Brother !!!
#jehugarcia what is the price per a cell of the Cmax and do you make the boards in a 24v config
awesome man.
Jehu is it possible to get on a waiting list to get the next batch of your "NEW C-MAX HYBRID FUSION BATTERIES PANASONIC CELLS 3.7V 5AH -"? Sorry, this was a cut and paste.
Definatly gon check these out
Finally some 14s love..... but I cant do anything with only 2 available
love your videos! Just a bit of feedback, shiny/ reflective surfaces dont show temperature well on FLIR cameras. Best use a thermocouple :)
how can i get those cells in the EU(austria)? batteryhookup doesn't have them or i didn't find them...
Soldering the BMS leads like that is fine but I would double/triple check you didn't short any adjacent pins. For the sake of adhesion probably better to use rectangular pads for the soldering instead of standard throughholes (unless you plan on eventually using a connector)
Hi Jehu, do you have the PCB boards in stock? I would like to purchase just the PCB boards. thanks
Do you know where to get anymore of those cells?
If you get any more of these cMax 48v Battery Modules please let me know I need one or two. I have the batteries already [ Honda Insight ] and I didn't know you had these until now. I need a couple please. I want to use them for solar but have been unable to figure out wiring and bms. Now you have a sweet solution. Please help me Jehu ready to buy them now.
Would this be good for a 48v golf cart
So it would work???????
Nice system. Many greetings from Germany, do you also send to Germany? 😅
Would something like this be usable as a 12V system (with a cover) in a car?
Especially because of the temperature ranges -10°C to 40°C
Hi Andi, haven't seen Jehu delivering to Europe eversince. But I may be wrong.
And never say never. 😉
Suitable as 12V starter battery for cars?
I don't think so. IIRC, the German KBA / TÜV objects due to fire hazard in conjunction with petrol nearby.
You already delivered a proof of concept with even less powerful cells, so it's all about permission. Unfortunately.
(This is why I use a 12V-6Ah-60C LFO starter battery for my Honda PanEuropean.)
CU on your channel, Doc! 👋
How well do you think this would work in a 48V golfcart. would i need to get more than one and run the parallel? Appreciate your thoughts.
Free giveaway???😅😅😅😅 Love the info you share bless you ahch!
Ah, nice. Those typical car starter batteries and jump-starters (if already Lithium chemistry). Nearly exactly the stats of my (ICE) motorbike's starter battery (well, a quarter of the power of course, since it's the usual 12V).
Using it for about 5 years, flawlessly.
Edit: Correction, mine are LFO (12V, 6Ah -> 72Wh, 360A max. -> 60C). Mistook yours for also LFO.
Fusing??? BMS traces..can they handle full BMS capability??? Is this cell form factor unique to Panasonic or second sourced???
Are those the kinds of batteries found in toyota prius?!
Good content
What is that clicking noise during the thermal imager?
the camera makes that noise
I know you sell the cells on the website. But do you plan on offerings the spacers anytime soon.
I'm interested. Is this cells still available with separators?
Any idea when you'll be restocking these??
why do you not use insulated tools?
I like Jehu's 7s 18650 pcb setup, and this looks cool as well. Is there a similar setup for a 4s or 8s 26650 lifepo4 available by chance? Because I bought too many of those cells.
Do you think you will do pcbs for a 24v version? Doesn't have to. E populated.
I already do, my 7s for 18650s are 24v
Oh sorry I have many. I should have said for cmax batteries
Are these from the hybrid or the plug-in hybrid
You tell me
These are from the hybrids. The plug in versions are called ENERGI and are 26ah cells.
@@jehugarcia These batteries are really cool! NICE WORK! I will be ordering one! I have 3x of the whole system the way it came in the C-Max car. The 6"tall x 18"wide x 48"long metal shielded unit has a 300v in to bms and then a high power out to motor which I would cap but also a 300 dc to 12vdc inverter to charge the starter battery. Kind of curious what would happen If I hooked up my solar panels to the 300v in and 12v out to lead acid golf cart bank. Seems like a great standalone system assuming everything just automatically worked.
These cells need to be compressed. What are your plans to compress them?
I second this comment. Im in car audio and have seen several large cmax banks turn into bananas as they will swell without compression. please test thoroughly before putting these in any type of unmonitored use case
Jehu...which ones do you recommend more, the headway 8ah or these, I feel like if only the aH was 6-7. This will be awesome but you know best?
Headway are LiFePo4 chemistry so it’ll probably depend on your use case.
@@yolo_burrito yeah that’s why I wanted him to explain the difference in chemistry and which is for what application. Another video, more views, and of course would be an awesome video:
I hope he sees this, but I think he will. He’s always very social.
I can’t. He will. Hopefully.
Where can we find the circuit board files at?
In the links
What are those grid tie inverters?
I have a question and have watched many videos, say I have a cart with a brushless motor works on 12 V or 24V with no load provides .5 n meters how many mah do I need to turn that 12 inch wheel with 30lbs. Which would work better 2 five battery packs run parallel run in series with 2 packs in parallel I guess getting 24 V 29,000mha or 12v with 4 packs run in series? 60,000 Mha
Jehu, what thickness of copper did you order on the boards? 2oz, 4oz, what exactly? This would make a major difference to the current carrying and heating.
1oz
@@jehugarcia That hot spot would be improved by 2oz copper, IMHO.
Yes but it would double the price of the board. Cost benefit análisis dictated thicker copper was not needed
just a heads up your link to the cells says w/spacers, but the actual page says without spacers
How many cycles do they last? What do they cost? Temperature range? How many Cs?
wow! you're coolest ever!
Amazing
What a absolute great design Jehu. Thank you again for pushing this technology and Hobbie. Are there any dimensions available L×W×H of the completed 48v package? Also any plans to add a design board in 60v or 72v with the exact same setup pcb board, dual bms, etc . I can't wait for the item to become available.
Could some of this battery pack replace a regular 12v 70AH lead or agm battery in a car with start stop function? Maybe other connected not to have 48v instead parallel for much more output power?
No you need LifePO4 cells for that
Maybe
How long would this battery be able to handle say a 20amp load?
They look amazing . Can any of your products ship to Canada?
Looks like a circuit board from Big Battery!
@jehugarcia Is there a link to the Gerber files?
what battery type is that? weight of the pack?
So your saying we have to go to your site, download a file then upload that file to another site in order to get the PCB's that we need, then we have to order the parts from the parts list your listing from a third site ? Is this how it works ?
No. I don’t own pcbway.com. They are the actual pcb manufacturer, you don’t need to download anything just order the boards from them.
Jehu: *sees 20 gauge wire* "this can't handle much power."
Also Jehu: *sees 1mm thick copper layer on circuit board* "this can handle, like, 100 amps."
I test my claims, up to you to believe or not. But I’ve never successfully convinced anyone who’s made up their mind.
@@jehugarcia who said I made up my mind? I just don't think that a 1mm thick copper trace can handle 10 times the amperage of a 3mm thick wire. Prove it can.
The reason that the traces can handle higher currents is simpe, current flows on the surface of the conductor and a 3mm round cable has half the surface than a 1mm x 6mm copper trace.
Jehu might not have the scientific background needed to explain to you the why of things but he has huge practical experience, your doubts are just based on ignorance.
@@footfall4559 AC flows on the surface. I don't think DC, like this, does.
I see the board has vias to help with heat. Do they also help with current distribution across the wide traces? Maybe you could do a video on high current PC board design.
How can someone get in contact with you to talk business? I feel like you'd be very intrested.
Email me
@@jehugarcia what's your email
@@jehugarcia I messaged you via your messenger..don't want to give my name out on here but it's about the cmax cells
What about 72V version for a electric bike.
Why not just wrap your socket and extension for your ratchet in electrical tape to prevent shorts?
Yes
Is this really about to start I hate premieres but what an odd time I saw your post about these cells but just didn't really see a good use for them for me right now
$5 for 5ah 3.7 /4.2 volt cell, or $70 for a 48volt pack (cells only). That would cost a lot to make a useful pack/Powerwall. for 50ah it would be $700! (cells only) or $1,290 for the kits you sell. or $1400 for 100ah(for just the cells) or $2,580 for your kits. I will stick to my Lifepo4 cells, its cheaper. I guess I am confused on why these cells are interesting to anyone, I understand these are a blend NMC cells but the cost per kwh is WAY to high for those. I guess these could be used in an ebike since most of those are 5 to 10ah anyways, I'm not trying to be a " Debbie Downer" and I LOVE your PCB designs, I wish you would come up with more of those PCB's for Lifepo4 cells, I would buy those kits in a heartbeat! Keep up the good work man!
Energy density and charge/discharge rates.
Yeah these are
Definitely not powerwall cells.
High discharge Rate is what makes them interesting for some applications, for example drones or RC planes etc.
The cheap LFP batteries are great for powerwalls, but you could not use them for drones, lightweight applications etc. because their power density [W/kg] or [W/L] is too low
What’s up with Graphene batteries? Are they the future?
Well i tried to purchase one, but' you don't ship to the United Kingdom(GB)(UK)!! What a let down.
how can I get these in Canada?
cool video, but 48v x 5ah is just 240wh. size wise I would have though 1kwh...
And yes, the custom boards are way cool...
Are you going to make a 24v board? I would love to see a board with 2p7s. That way it can be used them with the 24v powerwall systems.
all that hard work for 50A at 49V, talk about overkill, was expecting 200A or something spicy for a 50v build and that heavy gear.
The standoffs aren't cool, they're reflective.
right, always the same problem, using IR cameras is easy, interpreting the results needs a little know-how shiny metal surfaces can not be measured with IR cameras in the same "frame" the keyword is emissivity
BUS"S"bar :D
I would like to know, could you try a graphene battery?