Detailed breakdown of the yearly operational costs $$$ of my Piper Cherokee 140
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2023
- Operational costs of a 1966 Piper Cherokee 140 in 2022
70.14 Tach hours
88.8 Total time logged (basically Hobbs time)
31 missions/flights across 12 months
Gallons of fuel burned: 689.3
Average fuel price per gallon: $6.06
Variable Coats:
Fuel costs: $4,487 (calculated with actual fuel cost at fill up)
Oil costs: $22 (3 quarts)
Annual Maintence: $3766
- annual $1575
- High cost items:
- crank shaft seal replacement $630
- Eddy current inspection of the prop $450
- AD list compilation
Mid-year oil change: $383
Unexpected/Additional maintenance costs during the year: $427
- tie down Service and preheat in Steamboat Springs $80
- parts and labor for carb heat cable replacement $347
Fixed Costs:
Tie down Service at BJC: $1200 for the year
Insurance: $816
Total costs for 2022: $11,101
All the fun in 2022: Priceless
I really appreciate you making this video and the others you have made. They are really good and inspirational. Im a retired US Army UH-60 Blackhawk pilot. I retired 21 years ago (2003) and that was the last time I flew a Blackhawk. Ive never been in or ever even flown in any small aircraft. Im retiring permanently in 2 years at the age of 62. I live in Atlanta and Ive been a US postal carrier for many years. I deliver mail to a small aircraft subdivision here called Mallards Landing, and it totally fascinates me everyday Im in there to see Pipers, Cessna's, and various other aircraft sitting in the front yard or in a hanger in the driveway of the homes there...what a cool subdivision!! The aviation bug has come back to me after all these years and Im going to go to flight school here in Atlanta and get my private pilots license The Piper 140 is the aircraft i would like to own, so I hope I get to train in one as well. I have no idea what the transition is going to be for me never even flying in a small plane, and being totally out of aviation for over two decades, but Im going to do it. Thanks for the motivation your videos have given me and I look forward to the day of getting my private pilots license and eventually owning a Piper 140. I would love any advice from you or any of your veteran pilots and subscribers.
First off, thank you for your service. Secondly, thanks for watching and for commenting. Blackhawk pilot…that’s awesome. Just like being a Veteran, that’s quite the 1%’ers club title not a lot of people can say. How cool, I can only imagine the stories you have of your experience piloting the Blackhawk. I’m also exciting to hear your aviation bug is back and that you’re learning a new skill. The Cherokee 140 is a fantastic, stable platform for training and for building hours. We bought ours from a retired Naval Aviator that was located at KLZU just north east of ATL. I have family that lives in that area too. The only advice I have for your transition is to enjoy every moment of it. I’m not sure what the transition training will be but I can assure you your takeoffs and landings will be a little different than what you are previously used to😉. Best of luck to you in this journey to PPL.
@@blueyonder360 Thank you so much!! Keep making those videos
This was an eye opener, I'm considering getting one and all the data helps even though this was for your plane for last year, it gives a bit of a picture. Thanks for the great video!
Thanks for watching. I wanted to do it for those that are considering purchasing. It helps, in my mind, give a baseline for an entry level airplane that’s not very complex but great for building hours.
@@blueyonder360 exactly, and gives a lot of freedom over rentals!
136/hr. The first aircraft I owned was a 140. Loved it. In the 70s I was at 65/ hr for around 100 hrs. Times have changed.
Thanks for watching. By flying more hours this year compared to last, I am seeing my $/hr come down. I’m also doing oil changes and minor repairs under the eye of the local shop, which helps reduce how much I’m spending on labor.
Good rule of thumb, if you don’t have a hobbs, take your TAC and times 1.2. It’s not precise but it’s close enough and that’s what a flight school would do if a particular plane didn’t have one.
Nice vid and great flying!
I have a 1973 Piper Arrow II. My cost since buying have been extreme but it went from 1973-2022 in 1 year. It was not well maintained for a long time first annual included ADSB and all LED lights and strobes along with all fuel and scat lines replace, total gear rebuild and new exhaust and corrosion X the entire plane;$40,000 forty thousand. This year all new G5’s, GI275’s, G 355 GPS/COM, rebuilt KX155, JPI Engine monitor, new interior, 2 new mags, new alternator belt. Managed to drop 55 pounds of empty weight $40,000.
Headed to Sun N Fun looking for an auto pilot and maybe an instrument panel cover.
I bought it with a new engine, compression was tested 3 times at 80/80X4, never seen that before so they used 3 testers and did it 4 times. Prior owner had the engine hand built chrome cylinders possibly bored out a little. Mechanic said a real craftsmen built my engine, but don’t put more than 6 quarts of oil in it otherwise it undercoats the belly.
I am into it for $140,000 but it is a sub 5000 hour airframe, new engine with a total restoration.
Wow, it sounds like you have put together quite the machine. I’d like to get rid of the steam gauges and do some avionics upgrades, but I’d really like to get into a Cherokee 6 with all of that already completed.
@@blueyonder360
If you can find one the way you like it that is the way to go but if you have to take what someone else built and live with it, it might not be the best way to do it.
I think I should have done to Garmin, 1000 big screen TVs versus my normal size instruments, and not done a GPS/COM the size of the 355 but done a 650 or 750.
Out in Colorado I would be looking to get the power out of an engine and then build an avionics package around that aircraft, I am a horsepower junkie, so don’t listen to what I have to say.
That was helpful. Thank you
This is an incredible video. Now subscribed. New 51 yo pilot in training in DE training out of N57.
I’m glad to hear you liked the video. Great to hear about you getting into flight training. I’m 46 and have been at it for almost 4 yrs now. We love the GA community.
I like the night landing! 👍
Put her right down on the 1000’ lines 😎
So by amazing coincidence, I'm actually an A&P that's moving to the Denver area later this year (or very early next year).
I've been an A&P for about a year and for the first few months, my first job was actually maintaining Cherokee ands Archers for a local 141 flight school. I will have obtained my PPL by the time I move out there. As my goal is to fly for a living, I'd love to barter basic maintenance services (like oil changes, tire and brake replacements, etc) for flight time if that's something you'd be interested in.
Hello and sorry for the delayed response, but I would be interested in meeting with you as I’m always interested in meeting other aviators. An added bonus is your knowledge from a mechanics standpoint. I have the same handle on IG (blueyonder360) so message me to stay in touch till you make the move.
Don't mean to nitpick but when taking off it's not the 'upwind leg'...its actually the departure leg. The upwind leg is offset from the runway -- opposite the downwind leg. Knowledgeable aviators will be looking for you in a different spot.
Technically, you are correct. I’ve actually started to use this terminology more appropriately and am making sure to use “departure leg” if I am leaving/departing the area and upwind if I’m staying in the pattern.
My CFI didn’t even know this, sadly.
Seriously??
After takeoff, I have had the tower say many times, continue on the upwind. I have never had the tower say continue on the departure leg.
Well Ackkuuaallyyy
"i just told him for insurance purposes he couldn't be in the hangar." - the mechanic
wish me luck, first annual in my cherokee 140
I hope everything goes well for ya.
Thank you for sharing your insight on the fixed and variable cost of aircraft ownership. As a weekend pilot and working in the same industry- Medical Device. I’m still renting from the local flight school, but more recently I have began debating on pull the trigger to purchase. Due to work demands, family and life obligations, I fly about 25-50hrs annual right now. Would you consider 50hrs per year too low to warrant a purchase of an aircraft.
Without knowing rental costs in your area, I’ve heard something anecdotally that the 100hrs per year is around the deciding point. If flying more than 100hrs it might make more sense to purchase.
@@blueyonder360 Yes, I have seen other TH-camr make a similar statement as an ideal milestone 100hrs to purchase airplane. Did you make your purchase at the 100 mark or less than that, also we’re you IFR rated at the time?
@@CrooklynPilot I’m currently working on my instrument ground school and close to scheduling my knowledge test. I purchased this plan when I was a student pilot because the two low wing planes at the flight school I was training at both went out of service needing engine overhauls. Scheduling for the remaining Cessnas was far and few in between, so I pulled the trigger to purchase and finish out my private pilot training and now I use it to build time enjoy flying with friends and family.
random to your video....I'm training in a PA28, & considering what to buy, so that's what took me to your page. I notice you have the Ipad Yoke holder and your "paper" knee board on your left knee. Have you experimented enough to know that you like this set up ? I definitely use foreflight so the ipad accessibility is a must. trying to see what works best...thanks and I enjoy the video
I use the yolk mount for the iPad with ForeFlight, my ADSB in/out displays traffic on my iPad. I also have ForeFlight on my phone as a backup. I use the knee board to take notes about the flight. Thanks for watching.
@@blueyonder360 enjoy your plane and your flying....looks like you are !
Great video! I'm still a brand new student pilot but I was wondering which device called out, "Traffic, Three O' Clock". Is that part of instrument flying? Or is that a separate device? Thank you in advance.
It is a separate device. I have a traffic scope that is tied to the ADSB In/Out unit and it calls it out over the radio.
Is it worth it to get a 1967 Piper pa28-140 for $30K just to use to get my PPL and sell it after? Will i be able to make back the cost of the original price plus any maintenance?
Good, but tough question to answer. I ended up purchasing 55R when I was about 20 hrs into my PPL flight training. I was having a hard time booking consistent time in flight school planes due to how busy my flight school was at the time. I came across this plane and felt like it was something I couldn’t pass up. And I knew I would be flying it after I got my PPL. In today’s market and not knowing any details of the ‘67 I would say it will retain its current value.
3qts in 88 hrs is a qt every 29hrs that's excellent or seems wrong. We use 1qt every 3-5 hrs and it's within norm with engine at 1400 smoh and total time is 3500. We have a 1973 warrior 151 with similar engine to yours.
I’ll be honest, I take pretty good notes on what I spend but I could have missed a quart or two over the year. I too am surprised at how little this engine happens to burn.
What was that "overfly the field and depart"? Did you fly half of the downwind and then flew a midfield crosswind to depart? Who showed you that procedure?.. Is that a thing now?
Thanks for the question. Due to housing developments in the area and Class D airspace directly to the south of EIK, the airport has posted communications regarding departing to the east and they request we fly a normal traffic pattern then cross midfield to depart east.
Do you own your Cherokee outright or are you financed? If financed, wouldn't you add in the monthly loan payment to fixed costs?
We don’t have a loan on the plane, but you are correct. If it were financed, you would have to build that into the fixed costs. I sold a truck and was able to use that plus some savings to make the purchase.
Thanks for sharing. Do you have any tips on how to reliably find a complete list of recurring ADs for a particular make and model for someone like me who is browsing classifieds and trying to get a sense of how much that annual bill would be?
Thanks for watching. I would suggest starting at FAA.gov and look for their Policies and Procedures section. There you will find Advisory Circulars and Advanced Directives amongst other topics. I would also suggest speaking to a mechanic who works on the make and model you are interested in and see if they can help with a specific list. I paid a mechanic to review logbooks when I was serious about purchasing an aircraft and when we purchased N7055R I had the mechanic go through the logs with a fine tooth comb to make sure all ADs were complied with.
@@blueyonder360 got it. Thank you!
Im just not at that tax bracket 😅
If it's really $125 per hour (and you're not in one of those more expensive parts of the country judging by tie-down prices), it barely makes sense to own at all. Can't you rent for the same amount or lower? Did you ever calculate how many hours you'd need to fly to break even with renting?
Thanks for the comment and question. At the new airport, which is 6 NM north of my old airport, the overall cost of living isn’t that much different and in reviewing local flight schools & flying clubs in the area they are charging at minimum $150/hr. wet for similar aircraft and equipment. You also have club dues and renters insurance to consider as well as scheduling conflicts. There’s definitely a lot to consider when deciding to purchase vs. rent.
@@adzbasslines268 the freedom is it with your own plane!
How do you like that 140?
It’s a great training platform and perfect for two people. But if you want to carry four adults and bags for the weekend, this platform isn’t for those kinds of missions.
@blueyonder360 I have been looking into planes and as much as I like the stability of a high wing Cessna, the Pipers are about half the price, well depending on the avionics. So I have been looking, watching rather, more videos on the small Cherokees. Also seen you're only a little drive down the road.
@@kolbergone It’s pretty wild how much more Cessnas cost than Pipers. Both are very stable platforms but leads to the question of if you’re a high wing or low wing lover. We have a great backyard here in Colorado to explore either by air or by Jeep. We enjoy trail riding when we get a chance.
@blueyonder360 not sure what I am, just beginning this journey.
70 mph rotation?
Yeah, the book says for a no flap take off to accelerate to 50-60 mph then ease back on the yoke. Our field elevation is 5119 ft. and the book numbers are based off of sea level, so we accelerate a little more before she feels like she wants to fly.
My annual is around $1500. Might need a new mechanic…
At the new airport I’m at the mechanic quoted me $2200 for a base annual. I’m still shopping around.
Dollar value alone for an annual is not particularly useful. You need to know what was done....vs what needed to be done. You may get away with a few "cheap" annuals but it's no bargain IF the mechanic is leaving you with tasks undone, i.e., deferred maintenance. Not sure that was the case, but it could be.
Way wide on the landing and an errogant apperance on income, why bring it up.
So if you flew about 88 hours then $11k/88 = $125/hr. That seems high to me. My 140 I calculated my operating costs at about $85/hr.
A few reasons why mine is lower:
1) I have an 0-320 150hp engine burning 8 gph. I don't know what your O-360 burns but I'm sure it's more. My guess is about 10gph.
2) I have an STC to use mogas which I can get at about $4.00/g
3) I flew about 289 hours last year - which spreads the maintenance costs over more hours
4) I do my own oil changes
Thanks for the comments. I burn about 8.5-9 gal./hr when leaned out and cruising. Most of the time I am burning like 10-10.5 gal./hr with the throttle wide open. I agree that flying more would spread out the cost…let me tell that one to my wife so I can get more hours in 😉. I think doing my own maintenance on allowed items will certainly decrease the cost, but more importantly make me more knowledgeable about our bird overall. Our local flight schools are charging $150-165 an hour for comparable aircraft, so I think I’m still ahead versus renting.
Yea, $10k a year operating costs for a PA28-140 seems a little high, but then again, I do my own maintenance. I also work part-time in the shop at my home field (Not as an A&P, but just a guy who takes things apart and cleans up after the A&P), so my annuals are done at a huge discount. I pay $120/mo for a T-Hangar which also cuts down on maintenance as the plane is not kept outside in the weather.
@@BumbleBee55R I agree that doing your own maintenance will significantly decrease the labor charges throughout the year. I am looking for a mechanic that will take me under their wing, so I can learn more about my plane and also help myself out.