Im 27 and played baseball for 18 years. Im also a League player since Season 5. Fun to see the two Come together on my favorite Podcast. Greg Maddux was very inspirational and he was the wizard for a reason
I started the game with jungle and learned alot about lane matchups (especially top lane) just from playing jungle. Later on I became a top laner and the things I learned from jungle helped me alot.
As someone who mained jg for years in low elo, when I started my journey of improvement I realized it had actually handicapped me. Jungle does control objectives so learning objective times and Jungle clears is what people focus on. Jungle is the hardest role, in my opinion. Due to you not only having to know obj timers, optimal clear path per jg champ, and enemy jg tracking. You also need to know wave management and how every champ in game interacts with each other. Jungle has to be able to define the win objective and have some idea of how each of the teammates' lanes should go if champs played optimally. So I recommend to all low elo Jungle mains that have be "hard" stuck under gold for multiple seasons to go play a lot of mid and top lane. I would even say be a mid main for a split and then top the next split. Then go back to Jungle with all the wave management and champ interaction knowledge. I feel some people are Jungle mains because they are scared of the responsibility of laning. But ironically, Jungle is the role with the most responsibility to get a win even if they aren't the win condition.
This is true, in part also largely because laners don't care about objectives at all in low elo, so when you play jungle, you can't fulfill one of your main roles. And it's much easier to carry with the increased income and safety from the comfort of your lane and then use that to amplify your mechanical control of any given champion. In addition to that, you don't face the mental pressure of being blamed for everything and being expected to be everywhere at the same time. And that makes it easier to climb as a laner in that elo. It also means that laners have comparatively inflated elo when compared to their macro sense, or framed differently, laners will be handicapped by lack of macro sense later on, after they've climbed as high as their mechanics can carry them.
I personally feel I didn't really start improving past high silver/low gold until I switched from maining jungle to maining top lane. When I started playing I mained ADC+Support for the end of season 9, then I switched to jungle during season 10, climbed to high gold abusing Nocturne when he was broken OP in low elo, but I didn't improve much until I spent a whole split maining top lane.
Bro idk what it is, but seemingly EVERY week this podcast covers topics that I have legit just been discussing previously with friends. I think Curtis and Nathan have their spies out in other discords pruning for content
I will say, playing a bit of jungle specifically got me better at paying attention to jg timers as it related to when I wanted to crash waves top as quinn because I better understood the costs of a jungle ganking me.
What happened to me is a nocturne stole our botside jg, came out behind us level 3, and we got truly destroyed. I'd heard many times how useless of an early ganker nocturne is, so i just assumed he would never do something like that. Being so completely wrong sent me to the opposite extreme, totally paranoid about ever potentially bring exposed to a gank. On reflection, I think that caused me to lose many games due to being overly passive, not pushing leads in ways that on average would rarely get punished. I say all this to highlight that for the player who doesn't have a decade+ of experience in this game, it really isn't as simple as "just be curious". Did that nocturne play "incorrectly" in a way that happened to gain him an advantage? Is that a thing nocturne can do, and most of them just don't do it? We had a ward on their raptors which gave a false sense of security, but ordinarily would give absolute safety. Perhaps warding our jungle would have been better? The sheer number of possibilities that exist, and as a less experienced player I just can't sort through them even in hindsight like Curtis can, let alone in-game.
I think the higher you go the less it matters but it would probably be a good thing for the player base as a whole if they required you to win or at least play 5 games in every role before ranked is unlocked. Even better if placements required 5 games for every role.
Curtis, Nathan, Charile, BBC'ers, I am beat. I am trying to find a clip of you talking about an Xayah OTP expanding their champ pool, climbing, and quitting the game because Xayah was the only reason they played League. Have watched several of your episodes from this and the last year. A player I am trying to help out who's currently iron (having only recently reached level 30) loves Kindred, their lore and look was part of what got them to start playing (along with knowing people who play). They have come to the realization that Kindred would be a bad choice to learn and improve at the game (mostly after I taught them how to clear on Warwick and they saw how finicky Kindred's clear was+Marks mini-game), but I just want to give them the full range of perspectives, not just the Yone playing 1000 games against plats, and losing the majority of them, or people being hardstruck on Ahri until they try Brand/MLA approved champs.
47:55 This is MASSIVE btw. Even though I'm higher elo than pretty much all of my friends, I've consulted my Emerald friend about plays and he will point out things that seem obvious in plain day light that I completely missed because it's SUPERRRR easy to get tunneled on what you "think" happened on a play. It's especially effective if I'm checking over a play that I was confident about in game, but got flamed by my team for and look over in the replay. Even trying my best to try and understand it from their angle, it's difficult to avoid looking at things from the angle that you were using during the game. Like I tried asking in the /r summoner school discord about a play I made using a clip and the conclusion after a couple of inputs from silver players was that I could've played more aggressively and that I was respecting an ability that was on CD. I couldn't see this on my own because I was too tunneled on my version of events where I was "properly respecting a threat". The clip was from a diamond game while I usually tend to end most splits in low masters. It really just goes to show that third party input is just invaluable.
Wow... I never thought I'd see a pitching ninja and BBC crossover. Two smallish content creators on niche subjects. Very cool to see how excellence is paralleled when it comes to competitive endeavours.
when i started playing league there used to be this common advice (which is still very very common and what u talked about here) of one tricking a champion or having as small of a champ pool as u can. the reasoning was similar to those stories of like idk steve jobs or something who would wear the exact same clothes every single day because it made it so he had 1 less decision to think thro. if u can completely master a champion to the point of playing close to flawlessly (im exaggerating) during a teamfight, u will have more of ur attention available to see the everything happening around u and ur tunnel vision, so to speak, would expend. tldr - one tricking a chamion helps u learn the game of league of legends in general rather then whatever champion u're playing in particular. edit: I should've listened for like 5 more minutes cause the jungler guy (nathan?) said something about learning invade patterns etc. that very much sounded to me like an artist expending their 'visual library' thro drawing from refrances. (just wanted to point it out cause it was interesting.)
I played a 1v1 with a Masters top main on their 2nd most played champ (they're ending split 3 in masters) (I am ending split 3 as silver 3), the matchup was Garen (me) vs Irelia (them) (which is a "free" lane in higher elo if both players go conqueror and are roughly equal skill). And do you know what? I hard stomped. I zoned them from XP level 1, taking a hugely favorable trade that left them with barely any HP left. Then after getting level 2 while they were still level 1 I got first blood because they mispaced and I was able to Q > E them (I think, or was I still level 1, can't remember), ignite and then finish them with a flash auto under their tower. This happened because I played the matchup correctly, and they made a couple of small, but crucial miscalculations. Like starting Q, walking up in lane (I got behind them for the level 1 trade), stepping up too far when they were kill range, etc. I killed them again when I had level 6 and they had lvl 5, then I called it (think they might have gone in with 5 passive stacks, but it didn't let them win against my ignite and ult, plus my item lead). I had an XP advantage from the lvl 1 kill, and pushing a wave under tower and recalling (think I crashed the 2nd wave, letting the 3rd push into me after they TPed back to lane (I think, they were running TP either way)). We played another 1v1, they warded the 1st lane bush level 1 (I retreated to the 2nd bush, not tanking any minion damage/aggro), they started W instead of Q, using it to tank my E, making the trade more even, I mispaced and missed minion EXP (both of us lost the EXP from the first 2-3 melees), so I didn't have my level 4 before them so they were able to push after my wave bounced (did a 3-wave crash). Anyway, either that slow push or the next one (think we might have pushed waves back and forth a couple of times) I tried to hold the wave outside my turret, but it was too greedy and I died. From there I wasn't able to shut them down. An important point about 1v1s with champions you have mastery on (I have about 500k mastery on Garen, and played like 110-120 games on Garen this split) is that the environment massively frees up your mental stack. You don't have to worry about ganks period, you don't need to watch the mini-map, you don't have to spend your ward on their jungler. All of that is massive for just letting you focus on attacking the matchup. Having a matchup guide also helps (watched Erislash's Garen Matchup tierlist recently). They did beat me quite thoroughly when we played Garen vs Kayle (their main), Kayle though is as strong as Darius lvl 1 if she has the right runes and starts D-Blade (which they did).
I was pos 4 main in dota 2 and I recently swapped to league (unlocked rank a few days ago) and I love jungle, it's all the fun of pos 4 in dota but you also get to scale. I think it's awesome
what's weird is I played every role in dota2 except MID (but specialised in pos 3/1) , but in League i became a mid main lol. I would say to first learn a lane before you learn jungle though. Jungle is half about punishing laners mistakes, and you need to experience first hand how you are punished in lane by others.
@@dumpsterplayer2700 I tried mid a bit but I prefer jungle, at first it was pretty rough but I think having so much experience in dota just makes learning league a lot less overwhelming and I think I manage pretty well.
Maybe just move Charlie in-front of the camera and give him a tablet he can see the camera view with. He is talking more than Nathan or Curtis at times.
Hello, guys. Love your podcast, but I respectfully disagree with your take on jungle and macro. I feel like your take is highly tailored towards players of higher rank, or at least players who have been playing for a while and understand many parts of the game innately already. For context, I have been playing the game for 2 months very intensively, mid first, then jungle, and tried other roles for a few games as well. Peak bronze 2. I feel like there are a few problems with your arguments: 1. In your discussion you mixed playing every role and playing the jungle too heavily, which I feel like two very distinct things. Playing every role is spreading yourself way too thin, I completely agree, but devoting yourself only to jungle as a secondary role (at least for a while) is different. Before playing jungle, I hadn't known or hadn't internalized such things as - What a jungler wants and when they want it (ganks/farming/objectives/counter-jungling/strong side-weak side) - What is a good gank and what is a bad gank - Jungler pathings - Tracking the enemy jungler - Lane prio, why it's important to affect the map - Invade lvl 1 - What jungle camps exist and where they are - What nooks and crannies of the map feel like - as a jungle you constantly move around the map, which helps you learn it a lot faster - What a lot of junglers even do. You learn champion abilities and matchups on a deeper level much better and faster when they are your direct counterpart. - Map awareness. As a jungler you have much more time for it Some of these things are very basic, but for a new player playing the jungle helped to internalize them much master. Even when I return to playing mid, I feel my game knowledge is just a lot different. 2. You say everything can be learned with a good vod review and thus you don't need to play jungle. In my opinion, to learn everything I have listed above, I would need to spend hours on vod reviews, analyzing not just my plays, but the plays of my teammates, which is just not efficient and not fun. And even then, I think it would take way longer, than just playing the jungle and internalizing it through playing the role (which includes not just playing the game, but vod reviews as a jungler and educational content on yt) I feel like it's a bit easy for you with experience to note things like, for example, "oh, I died to gank because my jungle is bot, we have lane prior there, they are setting up for a dragon, also their jungler is weaker so he wants to trade objectives and goes for the grubs which spawn in 30, so he's doing the scuttle now, sees me overstep on mid and ganks me." For me the end of review would be "Oh, I didn't ward, leaned in to the wrong side of the lane, didn't pay attention to enemy jungler missing from the map. Also maybe didn't respect the identity of my champ who has no escapes, like Zyra, and also maybe didn't have flash". And even in this hypothetical example, I feel like it's so in depth, that you can't possibly expect people to review even more in depth than this. 3. You often return in your discussion to the point that people would necessarily hate playing the jungle, and only a very niche percentage of people would actually enjoy it and benefit from it, which I feel like... just not true? Sure, it's a very specific role, which is very different from the lanes, but it's also maybe the most diverse one? You have ap, ad, bruisers, mages, marksman, farmers, invaders, etc. I feel like it's reasonable to assume that everyone can find a champion they would like to play in the jungle. And as for the assumption that people wouldn't like the role itself... I feel like people who take the game seriously would be more likely to enjoy jungle than not, at least occasionally, simply because of the amount of thinking required and the amount of agency you have over the game. You also often recommend simpler champs to learn the game from the perspective of (like Annie in midlane), so your mental stack would be free to focus on the game instead of the champ itself. Doesn't jungle provide this for macro in a way? You don't focus on trading in your lane or spacing etc, but you are full focused on objectives, jungle tracking, what's happening on the map, tempo, timings etc. 4. You talk about learning the game through the particular champion's lens as being the best, and it's also ok to switch champs when you are skilled enough with your first champ. Why wouldn't the same concept apply to switching not champions, but roles? For example, you can play Zyra mid and then switch to Zyra jungle. I feel like it's a very similar concept.
I macro shot call for my team as support. My silly little support brain isn’t encumbered by menial tasks like farming minions. I get to instead focus on the next objectives and moves and ward accordingly.
My problem is I struggle to play simple champions because I get bored and lazy but if I play champs like my main (Katarina) I’m always engaged and I’m always paying the most attention to things such as jgl tracking and my fundamentals such as roaming and that’s what’s got me through bronze and now almost gold 4
Hearing about people disregard mental stack is wild as someone who's been playing more fighting games instead of League of Legends as of late. The mental stack only grows deeper as you improve at whatever game you play since you start to take more things into consideration. Half the battle is learning which things to begin disregarding as important while you improve.
I'm sure it’s just a space issue or whatever, but It’s a little weird that Charlie is behind the camera with as much as he contributes. Related, it’d be cool to get the other head coaches on here.
Overwatch has Role Queue with Role MMR, which is great, because I am good at DPS, ok at Healer, and dogshit at tank. Same thing could work in LoL, and be especially helpful with autofill.
Hello, i have some ocd feng shui advise here: Straighten the black curtain in the background, add a weight to the bottom left corner. Clean the cask cover of the lap top. The glass is not half full nore half empty, it is empty empty. Fix the tabe it is whobbelig. My monitor needs to be cleaned.
Your podcast is so great. I only miss all the little things you used to have on the desk behind you. They always reminded me of the history of the podcast. I can understand why you were removing them but Its sad also to see.
I can't seem to internalize things quickly. I review, identify something and then make the same mistake on repeat. Usually because mental stack overload but sometimes I just idiotically forget. I'm trying to figure out how to internalize properly.
Hey guys, I tried to find a podcast where you talked about warding, and I wasn't able to find anything. Is this something that you have covered or perhaps something that you can cover in a future episode? Specifically where are the best spots to ward and general discussion about the usefulness of wards and perhaps misconceptions. I speak as a top laner who want to have a higher impact on the map, and we tend to have a bit of downtime to place wards kind of wherever we want, especially if we are proxying.
the only fun champions are the hard ones yone yasuo akali irelia i am a adhd kid i want to do cracy plays i want to style on them i played ahri but she doesn't do any damage and is boring i dont think i am a mechanical master i just have to be to enjoy the game
I don't do as much review as other people because 80% of the time I know exactly what happened to cause me to misplay. As soon as I die I shout the obligatory "BULLSHITTT", and then say "I was too pushed up anyway". "I shouldnt be flanking" etc I mostly review if i'm getting hardstuck or I have no idea what happened. I think mini reviews in game helps IF it doesnt affect your lull stage usage too much
Role specific elo is bad. Imagine getting your off role when you are trying to climb, many players would just feel it's a waste of time to play that game. Really bad idea. If you want to learn another role make another account.
Yo wtf Curtis went from midlane mage to ABSOLUTE UNIT.
Respect the grind, bro.
he became a top lane champ
every time someones complains about elo inflation he does ONE pushup
When Nathan puts that stank on _"MOTIVATIONAL"_ it gets me hyped as hell for the pod haha
Pool Party Coach Curtis (1350 RP) - bro’s looking unreal!
Guys can we please have curtis on the LEFT??
Like it’s not a joke pleaseeeee!
Who is that on your left Nathan??
Literally took me a solid minute to figure it out
Im 27 and played baseball for 18 years. Im also a League player since Season 5. Fun to see the two Come together on my favorite Podcast. Greg Maddux was very inspirational and he was the wizard for a reason
OG Curtis watchers know that is the classic look! SoloQ tips of the day!
I started the game with jungle and learned alot about lane matchups (especially top lane) just from playing jungle. Later on I became a top laner and the things I learned from jungle helped me alot.
The new Channel Banner looks SICK!
Now THAT is a proper intro
As someone who mained jg for years in low elo, when I started my journey of improvement I realized it had actually handicapped me. Jungle does control objectives so learning objective times and Jungle clears is what people focus on. Jungle is the hardest role, in my opinion. Due to you not only having to know obj timers, optimal clear path per jg champ, and enemy jg tracking. You also need to know wave management and how every champ in game interacts with each other. Jungle has to be able to define the win objective and have some idea of how each of the teammates' lanes should go if champs played optimally. So I recommend to all low elo Jungle mains that have be "hard" stuck under gold for multiple seasons to go play a lot of mid and top lane. I would even say be a mid main for a split and then top the next split. Then go back to Jungle with all the wave management and champ interaction knowledge. I feel some people are Jungle mains because they are scared of the responsibility of laning. But ironically, Jungle is the role with the most responsibility to get a win even if they aren't the win condition.
This is true, in part also largely because laners don't care about objectives at all in low elo, so when you play jungle, you can't fulfill one of your main roles. And it's much easier to carry with the increased income and safety from the comfort of your lane and then use that to amplify your mechanical control of any given champion. In addition to that, you don't face the mental pressure of being blamed for everything and being expected to be everywhere at the same time. And that makes it easier to climb as a laner in that elo.
It also means that laners have comparatively inflated elo when compared to their macro sense, or framed differently, laners will be handicapped by lack of macro sense later on, after they've climbed as high as their mechanics can carry them.
I personally feel I didn't really start improving past high silver/low gold until I switched from maining jungle to maining top lane. When I started playing I mained ADC+Support for the end of season 9, then I switched to jungle during season 10, climbed to high gold abusing Nocturne when he was broken OP in low elo, but I didn't improve much until I spent a whole split maining top lane.
Young Curtis came from a different dimension to teach us about League.
Bro idk what it is, but seemingly EVERY week this podcast covers topics that I have legit just been discussing previously with friends. I think Curtis and Nathan have their spies out in other discords pruning for content
Thought the same exact thing this episode LOL
I will say, playing a bit of jungle specifically got me better at paying attention to jg timers as it related to when I wanted to crash waves top as quinn because I better understood the costs of a jungle ganking me.
What happened to me is a nocturne stole our botside jg, came out behind us level 3, and we got truly destroyed. I'd heard many times how useless of an early ganker nocturne is, so i just assumed he would never do something like that. Being so completely wrong sent me to the opposite extreme, totally paranoid about ever potentially bring exposed to a gank. On reflection, I think that caused me to lose many games due to being overly passive, not pushing leads in ways that on average would rarely get punished.
I say all this to highlight that for the player who doesn't have a decade+ of experience in this game, it really isn't as simple as "just be curious". Did that nocturne play "incorrectly" in a way that happened to gain him an advantage? Is that a thing nocturne can do, and most of them just don't do it? We had a ward on their raptors which gave a false sense of security, but ordinarily would give absolute safety. Perhaps warding our jungle would have been better? The sheer number of possibilities that exist, and as a less experienced player I just can't sort through them even in hindsight like Curtis can, let alone in-game.
I think the higher you go the less it matters but it would probably be a good thing for the player base as a whole if they required you to win or at least play 5 games in every role before ranked is unlocked. Even better if placements required 5 games for every role.
Another great episode, thanks as always for the content lads
Clean Intro comin in clutch from our beloved nolan mett 👌🏻
Curtis, Nathan, Charile, BBC'ers, I am beat. I am trying to find a clip of you talking about an Xayah OTP expanding their champ pool, climbing, and quitting the game because Xayah was the only reason they played League. Have watched several of your episodes from this and the last year.
A player I am trying to help out who's currently iron (having only recently reached level 30) loves Kindred, their lore and look was part of what got them to start playing (along with knowing people who play). They have come to the realization that Kindred would be a bad choice to learn and improve at the game (mostly after I taught them how to clear on Warwick and they saw how finicky Kindred's clear was+Marks mini-game), but I just want to give them the full range of perspectives, not just the Yone playing 1000 games against plats, and losing the majority of them, or people being hardstruck on Ahri until they try Brand/MLA approved champs.
They cooked with that new channel icon.
Exactly what I needed before getting something to eat. Thank you guys you're amazing!!
it also helps with map awareness playing jungle but also help you understand objective rotation
Happy New Year BBC!
47:55 This is MASSIVE btw. Even though I'm higher elo than pretty much all of my friends, I've consulted my Emerald friend about plays and he will point out things that seem obvious in plain day light that I completely missed because it's SUPERRRR easy to get tunneled on what you "think" happened on a play.
It's especially effective if I'm checking over a play that I was confident about in game, but got flamed by my team for and look over in the replay. Even trying my best to try and understand it from their angle, it's difficult to avoid looking at things from the angle that you were using during the game.
Like I tried asking in the /r summoner school discord about a play I made using a clip and the conclusion after a couple of inputs from silver players was that I could've played more aggressively and that I was respecting an ability that was on CD. I couldn't see this on my own because I was too tunneled on my version of events where I was "properly respecting a threat". The clip was from a diamond game while I usually tend to end most splits in low masters. It really just goes to show that third party input is just invaluable.
Need to start giving Nathan some love in the thumbnails, it’s not just ur channel lol
Wow... I never thought I'd see a pitching ninja and BBC crossover. Two smallish content creators on niche subjects.
Very cool to see how excellence is paralleled when it comes to competitive endeavours.
when i started playing league there used to be this common advice (which is still very very common and what u talked about here) of one tricking a champion or having as small of a champ pool as u can.
the reasoning was similar to those stories of like idk steve jobs or something who would wear the exact same clothes every single day because it made it so he had 1 less decision to think thro.
if u can completely master a champion to the point of playing close to flawlessly (im exaggerating) during a teamfight, u will have more of ur attention available to see the everything happening around u and ur tunnel vision, so to speak, would expend.
tldr - one tricking a chamion helps u learn the game of league of legends in general rather then whatever champion u're playing in particular.
edit: I should've listened for like 5 more minutes cause the jungler guy (nathan?) said something about learning invade patterns etc. that very much sounded to me like an artist expending their 'visual library' thro drawing from refrances. (just wanted to point it out cause it was interesting.)
I played a 1v1 with a Masters top main on their 2nd most played champ (they're ending split 3 in masters) (I am ending split 3 as silver 3), the matchup was Garen (me) vs Irelia (them) (which is a "free" lane in higher elo if both players go conqueror and are roughly equal skill). And do you know what? I hard stomped. I zoned them from XP level 1, taking a hugely favorable trade that left them with barely any HP left. Then after getting level 2 while they were still level 1 I got first blood because they mispaced and I was able to Q > E them (I think, or was I still level 1, can't remember), ignite and then finish them with a flash auto under their tower. This happened because I played the matchup correctly, and they made a couple of small, but crucial miscalculations. Like starting Q, walking up in lane (I got behind them for the level 1 trade), stepping up too far when they were kill range, etc. I killed them again when I had level 6 and they had lvl 5, then I called it (think they might have gone in with 5 passive stacks, but it didn't let them win against my ignite and ult, plus my item lead). I had an XP advantage from the lvl 1 kill, and pushing a wave under tower and recalling (think I crashed the 2nd wave, letting the 3rd push into me after they TPed back to lane (I think, they were running TP either way)).
We played another 1v1, they warded the 1st lane bush level 1 (I retreated to the 2nd bush, not tanking any minion damage/aggro), they started W instead of Q, using it to tank my E, making the trade more even, I mispaced and missed minion EXP (both of us lost the EXP from the first 2-3 melees), so I didn't have my level 4 before them so they were able to push after my wave bounced (did a 3-wave crash). Anyway, either that slow push or the next one (think we might have pushed waves back and forth a couple of times) I tried to hold the wave outside my turret, but it was too greedy and I died. From there I wasn't able to shut them down.
An important point about 1v1s with champions you have mastery on (I have about 500k mastery on Garen, and played like 110-120 games on Garen this split) is that the environment massively frees up your mental stack. You don't have to worry about ganks period, you don't need to watch the mini-map, you don't have to spend your ward on their jungler. All of that is massive for just letting you focus on attacking the matchup. Having a matchup guide also helps (watched Erislash's Garen Matchup tierlist recently). They did beat me quite thoroughly when we played Garen vs Kayle (their main), Kayle though is as strong as Darius lvl 1 if she has the right runes and starts D-Blade (which they did).
I was pos 4 main in dota 2 and I recently swapped to league (unlocked rank a few days ago) and I love jungle, it's all the fun of pos 4 in dota but you also get to scale. I think it's awesome
what's weird is I played every role in dota2 except MID (but specialised in pos 3/1) , but in League i became a mid main lol.
I would say to first learn a lane before you learn jungle though. Jungle is half about punishing laners mistakes, and you need to experience first hand how you are punished in lane by others.
@@dumpsterplayer2700 I tried mid a bit but I prefer jungle, at first it was pretty rough but I think having so much experience in dota just makes learning league a lot less overwhelming and I think I manage pretty well.
Maybe just move Charlie in-front of the camera and give him a tablet he can see the camera view with. He is talking more than Nathan or Curtis at times.
Hello, guys.
Love your podcast, but I respectfully disagree with your take on jungle and macro. I feel like your take is highly tailored towards players of higher rank, or at least players who have been playing for a while and understand many parts of the game innately already.
For context, I have been playing the game for 2 months very intensively, mid first, then jungle, and tried other roles for a few games as well. Peak bronze 2.
I feel like there are a few problems with your arguments:
1. In your discussion you mixed playing every role and playing the jungle too heavily, which I feel like two very distinct things. Playing every role is spreading yourself way too thin, I completely agree, but devoting yourself only to jungle as a secondary role (at least for a while) is different.
Before playing jungle, I hadn't known or hadn't internalized such things as
- What a jungler wants and when they want it (ganks/farming/objectives/counter-jungling/strong side-weak side)
- What is a good gank and what is a bad gank
- Jungler pathings
- Tracking the enemy jungler
- Lane prio, why it's important to affect the map
- Invade lvl 1
- What jungle camps exist and where they are
- What nooks and crannies of the map feel like - as a jungle you constantly move around the map, which helps you learn it a lot faster
- What a lot of junglers even do. You learn champion abilities and matchups on a deeper level much better and faster when they are your direct counterpart.
- Map awareness. As a jungler you have much more time for it
Some of these things are very basic, but for a new player playing the jungle helped to internalize them much master. Even when I return to playing mid, I feel my game knowledge is just a lot different.
2. You say everything can be learned with a good vod review and thus you don't need to play jungle. In my opinion, to learn everything I have listed above, I would need to spend hours on vod reviews, analyzing not just my plays, but the plays of my teammates, which is just not efficient and not fun. And even then, I think it would take way longer, than just playing the jungle and internalizing it through playing the role (which includes not just playing the game, but vod reviews as a jungler and educational content on yt)
I feel like it's a bit easy for you with experience to note things like, for example, "oh, I died to gank because my jungle is bot, we have lane prior there, they are setting up for a dragon, also their jungler is weaker so he wants to trade objectives and goes for the grubs which spawn in 30, so he's doing the scuttle now, sees me overstep on mid and ganks me."
For me the end of review would be "Oh, I didn't ward, leaned in to the wrong side of the lane, didn't pay attention to enemy jungler missing from the map. Also maybe didn't respect the identity of my champ who has no escapes, like Zyra, and also maybe didn't have flash".
And even in this hypothetical example, I feel like it's so in depth, that you can't possibly expect people to review even more in depth than this.
3. You often return in your discussion to the point that people would necessarily hate playing the jungle, and only a very niche percentage of people would actually enjoy it and benefit from it, which I feel like... just not true? Sure, it's a very specific role, which is very different from the lanes, but it's also maybe the most diverse one? You have ap, ad, bruisers, mages, marksman, farmers, invaders, etc. I feel like it's reasonable to assume that everyone can find a champion they would like to play in the jungle. And as for the assumption that people wouldn't like the role itself... I feel like people who take the game seriously would be more likely to enjoy jungle than not, at least occasionally, simply because of the amount of thinking required and the amount of agency you have over the game.
You also often recommend simpler champs to learn the game from the perspective of (like Annie in midlane), so your mental stack would be free to focus on the game instead of the champ itself. Doesn't jungle provide this for macro in a way? You don't focus on trading in your lane or spacing etc, but you are full focused on objectives, jungle tracking, what's happening on the map, tempo, timings etc.
4. You talk about learning the game through the particular champion's lens as being the best, and it's also ok to switch champs when you are skilled enough with your first champ. Why wouldn't the same concept apply to switching not champions, but roles? For example, you can play Zyra mid and then switch to Zyra jungle. I feel like it's a very similar concept.
Can we give some to curtis here for how clean my guy looks
Freshly shaved clean haircut dang
Welcome back BBCers!
Took me a full minute to realize that was actually Curtis lmao
I macro shot call for my team as support. My silly little support brain isn’t encumbered by menial tasks like farming minions. I get to instead focus on the next objectives and moves and ward accordingly.
Love the series!
Though I'm not sure who the person to left of Nathan is.
Exiting out when they say the key to improving is being curious how long will I make it
4:48 is the answer, in case you were curious
My problem is I struggle to play simple champions because I get bored and lazy but if I play champs like my main (Katarina) I’m always engaged and I’m always paying the most attention to things such as jgl tracking and my fundamentals such as roaming and that’s what’s got me through bronze and now almost gold 4
Hearing about people disregard mental stack is wild as someone who's been playing more fighting games instead of League of Legends as of late. The mental stack only grows deeper as you improve at whatever game you play since you start to take more things into consideration. Half the battle is learning which things to begin disregarding as important while you improve.
I'm sure it’s just a space issue or whatever, but It’s a little weird that Charlie is behind the camera with as much as he contributes. Related, it’d be cool to get the other head coaches on here.
Overwatch has Role Queue with Role MMR, which is great, because I am good at DPS, ok at Healer, and dogshit at tank. Same thing could work in LoL, and be especially helpful with autofill.
Hello, i have some ocd feng shui advise here: Straighten the black curtain in the background, add a weight to the bottom left corner. Clean the cask cover of the lap top. The glass is not half full nore half empty, it is empty empty. Fix the tabe it is whobbelig. My monitor needs to be cleaned.
Its also vice versa, i started at jungle und cant lane on an competent level if my life depends on it.
Your podcast is so great. I only miss all the little things you used to have on the desk behind you. They always reminded me of the history of the podcast. I can understand why you were removing them but Its sad also to see.
I can't seem to internalize things quickly. I review, identify something and then make the same mistake on repeat. Usually because mental stack overload but sometimes I just idiotically forget. I'm trying to figure out how to internalize properly.
Beardless Curtis caught me off guard
i love BBC its so in depth 🙃
lookin good curtis
Curtis looking like a Darius cosplayer
6:30 is that fudge on Elise?
Wasn't the strategy of T1 lane swapping overwhelming their opponents mental stack and creating subterfuge?
Their placement literally makes no difference to me but it’s hilarious that’s it’s shaking the community like this 😂
Hey guys, I tried to find a podcast where you talked about warding, and I wasn't able to find anything. Is this something that you have covered or perhaps something that you can cover in a future episode? Specifically where are the best spots to ward and general discussion about the usefulness of wards and perhaps misconceptions. I speak as a top laner who want to have a higher impact on the map, and we tend to have a bit of downtime to place wards kind of wherever we want, especially if we are proxying.
Yes
Finally
Yall get an MSI sponsorship?
Oh no, what happened to Curtis' beard!
Why did Curtis get replaced???
new season time
the only fun champions are the hard ones yone yasuo akali irelia i am a adhd kid
i want to do cracy plays i want to style on them i played ahri but she doesn't do any damage and is boring i dont think i am a mechanical master i just have to be to enjoy the game
the guy in the thumbnail doesn't match the guy in the video, is this false advertising?
Coach Curtis looks so weird without the islam beard lol. It looked good ngl.
switch back
F**ck i came back to league and started watching you guys again after 2 years break and i didn't recognized guy on the right xD
Nooo the beaaard
I don't do as much review as other people because 80% of the time I know exactly what happened to cause me to misplay.
As soon as I die I shout the obligatory "BULLSHITTT", and then say "I was too pushed up anyway". "I shouldnt be flanking" etc
I mostly review if i'm getting hardstuck or I have no idea what happened.
I think mini reviews in game helps IF it doesnt affect your lull stage usage too much
Curtis what happened to your face???
Role specific elo is bad. Imagine getting your off role when you are trying to climb, many players would just feel it's a waste of time to play that game. Really bad idea. If you want to learn another role make another account.
Beardless Curtis is 16 y/o