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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ส.ค. 2024
- Digital is one of the fastest growing parts of ham radio, and for good reason. It's the future of the hobby whether ham radio operators want to admit it or not. Many in amateur radio don't want to believe that Digital Mobile Radio (DMR) is better, but it is. Here are all the reasons why digital is way better than analog.
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I'm a fan of analog myself
To each his own!
@@K0LWC Yeah I agree. I was always a die hard Analog fan. But in recent times it seems more and more hams are moving over to DMR, I know its not end to end radio, but you always have HF for that, which lets be honest can be much more exciting then just linking up with someone across the globe over the internet.
Yeah I just kind of got back into the Hobby and I'm going to get my license for the first time but all this digital stuff doesn't make sense to me in the sense of ham radio it's kind of moving away from what radio is
It was interesting to heard your perspective.
My biggest frustration with digital is the fragmentation of the community due to different protocols. Right now analog is a big broad umbrella, with digital it seems like we have three small incompatible groups and the largest group of hams (who only own analog radios) is totally excluded.
I have mixed feelings about the popularity of digital hotspots. I think they can be a great capability and I’m sure people have fun with them. I also think it starts to become almost like just an internet chat room with the radio aspect of it being minimal. Some people drive around with hotspots tethered to their cell phones and never even use an rf repeater. This isn’t a bad thing, but I don’t know if that interests me.
I will play with digital more one day, just for fun. Maybe I’ll like it. I do however think the fragmentation of an already small community isn’t a good thing. I do appreciate that DMR may be the most open standard, but I don’t know if it is or will become the dominant standard.
I agree that the fragmentation has been challenging, but it's one ham radio operators are beginning to address. One of the hot trends now is multiprotocol gateways. In fact, we have one of those here in Colorado. You can access the "talkgroup" by using DMR, P25, NXDN, D-Star or even analog - all tied into one common link. It's great to bring together all digital protocols instead of having small factions. It's really fun to see what hobbyists are doing to experiment with briding protocols together.
I agree the dependency on internet is useless in Emergency situations. I hope there becomes a standard for Digital as the Army, police etc have switched and can operate independent of infrastructure. Why can’t we have the stake standards for HAM, with the exception of encryption of course
But you don't have to prefer one over the other. Having both covers all your bases, end of story.
@@3asyrider75 Irrelevant, since we will still have analog in emergency situations.
@@dangerous8333 They are phasing out analogs in Canadian forces. The digital encryption is far better then the old analogue encryption. They operate completely independent of the communications infrastructure. Not to mention our equipment must be to the NATO standards. I was in CF signals
Digital suddenly drops off when it's out of range whereas analog it can be deciphered even beyond it's range.
You're exactly right................
Is it intelligible? Obviously not
I would contest that digital has much longer distance coverage than analog. I am a radio operator for disaster office in my community and I can attest that digital has less coverage than analog. Analog may be experiencing hissing sound when it is extreme coverage compared to digital but at least it doesn't drop down or cut its signal compared to analog.
This is also true in the fpv Drone community.
@@dangerous8333 it got better, but yes
@Arlen. Read my response again and the title of the video. I understand analog and digital quite well having worked in the broadcast industry for over 40 years. When there is an emergency situation, and they seem to happen regularly these days, analog is all there is. Digital is comprised of a group of systems that can't talk to each other, which is totally contrary to what amateur radio is designed to do. When the SHTF, it will be just analog.
Also a broadcaster here. Thanks Mike for explaining why it’s not obvious to people who are getting gaslighted by the profiteers here. In essence, I replied to the OP earlier with this remark:
“ Why must you stir up debate between groups when you’re not going to give an inch in the first place? You’re not contributing to a friendly community. It’s like divisive social media … not the professional and respectful camaraderie most of us experience still with ham radio.”
@@radiotvgod I guess that is why they call it Amateur Radio? 😁
@@mikehemeon2473 I’ve always felt we sell ourselves short by that label. I’d rather be called a HAM any day than an amateur. When representing ourselves to the public this upcoming Field Day, keep that in mind.
The whole point of me getting into ham is that it doesn't require much of an infrastructure.
Forum and Brim Digital isn’t that different than analog in local use.
I use digital for simplex.
Analog may also require infrastructure. Digital could also work without infrastructure...
The use of infrastructure is independent of analog/digital
@@galax574 true .. just seems that most use it with internet ..very little rf ..like skype lol
@@shockadellick Think Apple Watch “WalkieTalkie mode”. Lol.
Analog is awesome for grid down scenarios and honestly you can have fairly lengthy convos on a along these days as most people move to digital.
I'm a brand new ham, still waiting on the FCC to issue my license since I passed the technician exam. There's a lot I still don't understand very well, and digital radio modes is one of them. Thanks for highlighting some of the differences.
Thanks for such a great parody!!! I cannot believe people actually think this video is true!. As an actual Amateur Extra class operator, I'll take my 100 watts and a wire and bioenno battery with solar power backup any day when in a shtf situation for emergency communications. DMR is not the fastest growing part of ham radio nor is it the future...it is nothing more than talking on a cell phone or chatting through the internet and sounding like a robot! Digital radio is for shy millennials and gen z's who grew up texting and are too shy and afraid to have any kind of oral social interactions because they have never learned to interact with humans because they are glued to their phones and computers. Ill stick to the original digital... CW....73's
I’m not sure if this was meant to be serious or not...
@@K0LWC Hi Hi!! You got it! From one ham to another, as long as you are active and interested in a amature radio, it doesn’t matter what mode you use as long as we keep ham radio alive and relevant! You being a young ham, I applaud you for making these videos so maybe we can get more and more younger people to get interested and licensed in the greatest hobby ever! I wasn’t kidding about CW being the best and original digital mode! Hope to work you on the bands and 73s
K9TDW
@K9TDW, I completely agree with you. I do think that getting more people into the hobby is a great thing and there does seem to be a huge divide between those who use analog and the digital guys. As you said, analog just works.
Also, DMR radios are built for DMR and often have analog added. YSF and D-Star radios are built by companies who are making an analog radio and adding digital. There is no comparison when you use a Yaesu or Kenwood/Icom radio for analog vs. the analog on a DMR radio.
Finally, he needs to understand more about analog. You can vary the bandwidth on analog and ultimately use less bandwidth on analog...everything has a trade-off.
One more thing. D-Star and YSF are far, far easier to use than DMR. They all use similar infrastructure but DMR was developed for commercial use (think Costco, etc. where you communicate simplex on locked-down channels). It is far, far harder to program and be successful with. To get going with YSF, you input your call sign and you are talking. DMR can take hours at best and days for those who are having trouble with it. Yes, I know you can upload someone else's DMR codeplug and be "on the air" faster but generic codeplugs are just that...generic.
Sorry for rambling. Ultimately, HAM radio was developed for people who like to build/experiment/and don't have to be tied to infrastructure. Digital takes all of that away (please don't confuse this with HF digital). I have had fun with YSF and been successful but frustrated by DMR. Not much beats typing in an analog frequency and talking...
73!
DMR does not actually split the bandwidth into two, but through TDMA, it utilizes the same 12.5 KHz bandwidth but on two different split timeslots, enabling two concurrent connections/conversations on a Tier-II/III compliant repeater, thus effectively turning it into a "bandwidth efficiency" of 6.25 KHz. Not possible with simplex or hotspot use, of course, since it needs a timeserver on the repeater to sync. What's interesting is the use of single-frequency repeater by some repeaters by splitting TS1 and TS2 (usually on Hytera devices).
In my experience, digital--DMR and C4FM--have better connectivity in weak-signal situations compared to analog voice, since they have forward-error correction.
I agree with all points except better audio quality. Analog audio sounds more natural to me. Nice video!
Thanks, Bill! The audio quality to the ear is not for everyone. It is a bit subjective.
yes, better audio is analog
Not in the fringe. Natural and static noise.
@@carlsanti341 Don’t confuse audio quality with signal strength. That’s where people get crossed up here. Put your thinking cut back on and use your analytical skills.“Now Winston, how many fingers am I holding up?” LOL.
@@K0LWC I love it when people try their damnedest to try to make science subjective. That’s a crock. The only subjective part is the decision to go with it or not. OK?
You’re trying to tell someone who doesn’t like a certain thing that they are XXX O phobic when it’s not the case… It’s simply a choice and a decision. Too much contention and arm twisting going on here and way too much salesmanship hype getting pushed here.
Not everyone can tell when they’re being pitched. But after they’ve been had, that good ole buyer’s remorse sets in and it doesn’t feel good, does it kids!
I just attended a digital net. The transmissions were broken, very choppy. I think you are getting ahead of yourself. If you want digital so badly I suggest you check out cell phones. I like both but lean on analog.
Okay Boomer.
In next episode: 7 reasons why cellphone is better than dmr radio
Cell phones use RF. 🤷🏻♂️
@@K0LWC and they need cables and servers at some points. the same for dmr . ham radio ? lol .
In the final episode: why DMR actually was better after all (disaster edition)
When comparing radio coverage range, remember that most (all?) of the graphs showing the "huge" digital range advantage are comparing against narrow-band FM, which is required for commercial FM systems. Most ham gear still uses wide-band FM, so the "digital advantage" is reduced. I maintain some tall FM and DMR ham repeaters. I would say they've got similar actual range, with the FM system having the expected analog noise out on the fringe.
Yep. And when the digital signal drops off completely... I often can still hear the analog signal enough to get the message. I like all the modes. Play with analog, C4FM & Wire-X, DMR, and P25 since we have some repeaters. The digital modes are all 'cool' and I have a blast experimenting and using each... hard to beat good old analog and not needing the infrastructure the digital modes need to...... well.... work at all. Guess I'm a crusty old ham in denial - or just experienced enough to understand the differences.
@@guitodd Yeah that's how analog works vs digital.
The only benefit as of now is clarity.
It's the same in the fpv Drone world.
Digital is clear, but it drops unexpectedly. Analog is noisier and gets even noisier before it drops.
don't fully agree with your comment about audio quality or range. you are right about usage of space and signal is there or not. I use DMR / DSTAR / FUSSION starting to use P25. But I still like analog better.
At least you’re open to experimenting!
I'm a disabled law enforcement officer and I got into ham radio because it helps me a lot and meeting new people.
Absolutely, Michael! Ham radio is a great hobby to meet a variety of new people that share the same interests as you.
@@K0LWC ki4zqy is my call sign
Hey Michael, do police officers monitor Ham or CB? Thanks
1) Just use 2 narrow band analog repeaters. No single point of failure.
2) Analog APRS Mic-E. Use a modem for data like municipalities do. I think we call it packet radio.
3) Analog: turn down your mic gain. Not all DMR radio has this feature.
4) Sorry, DMR doesn't sound that great. You made that statement in your video. 2:26
5) No not really.
6) Not all DMR radio has this feature. Most areas only have 1 or 2 repeaters.
7) I love this myth. As a retired firefighter. We had to keep the analog radios in the trucks and handhelds. Just for this reason. Analog was much better. This is just a Motorola sales point. Looks good in your diagram. But it doesn't work that way. Also, Think about what you said about the range Analog vs. Digital. FM stands for Freaking Magic.
By the way. I own a Uhf Analog repeater (AllStarLink) and a DMR repeater (110618). The AnyTone AT878uv is a nice radio. But most of my friends have D-Star or Fusion. So we go back to Analog.
Do I like DMR. Yes I do. But would never write off Analog.
The one eyed man in the community of the blind. Thank you for the truth sir. And for sharing your experience in the real world. Hard to duck that big sales pitch from the manufacturers, ain’t it! It’s everywhere it’s everywhere. (Anybody remember chicken man?).lol
How's digital for emergencies?
Exactly. Dont get me wrong, I like digital, but analog has some significant advantages over digital. Dont really understand the “better than the other” mentality anyway. There is room for both 😁
About the same. Maybe better range.
We (the community) should focus on not to get fragmented too much. It's a hobby about meeting people and it works the better the more ppl communicate in the same way (mode). I just start into it and stick with analog for now.
Nailed it! Fly low though… You’re about to get trolled by the thin-skinned OP. Shields up! Lol.
I love DMR for it’s simplicity and versatility. However ... using my Internet-connected hotspot to access DMR, really means I’m using my HT as a device for an Internet chat. Fun, but is this really ham radio>
Yes. DMR can still be used like a traditional repeater. Regardless of that fact, RF is still involved.
Yes, it is. In addition to the above, the "this isn't real ham radio" logic was initially applied to HF Digi modes like PSK31, RTTY, hell I heard some folks say the name for operators who don't do code every other transmission
I dont want my voice to sound like a robot thanks.
You get used to it after a little while and you begin to hate the hiss and hash of analog. 73
@@K0LWC might take me a while but thanks.
Audio quality is crap.Cant beat the natural sounds of analogue.
@@K0LWC
😹😹 For me I can't enjoy talking on my old Yaesu ft-411 unless hiss and hash is there,but also we can't deny that digital radio has ecxellent benefits at least you have privacy with your girlfriend 😉
@@K0LWC No.
I don't believe your description in #1 is accurate. A typical analog FM repeater occupies a 25khz bandwidth...aka wide band FM or just FM. DMR operates within a 12.5khz bandwidth (narrow FM) for the entire repeater and not one time slot in one half of the 12.5khz and the other time slot in the other 12.5khz summing up to 25khz. Both time slots are contained in the 12.5khz of spectrum. It's just tdma. Both timeslots occupy the 12.5khz and just alternate every 30ms. It's up to the vocoder in the radio to buffer the stuttering transmission for the time slot and smooth it out audibly. So with that said you can get four simultaneous dmr conversations in the same spectrum as one FM analog signal.
Digital vs analog with no real context. For the casual operator who just likes to make contacts with a few friends, sure DMR works well, but so does discord. In an emergency situation, I would rather choose a radio that has the greatest chance of being heard by others, and at the moment that is analog. The comments about distance are somewhat valid, but are not at all related to DMR. Having a narrower bandwidth will almost always (someone will prove me wrong) increase range. In my opinion, the all or nothing behavior of digital cancels out benefit though. If the distance is what I am going for, then I would rather use a more appropriate frequency and mode, such as CW or a narrower digital mode. With analog, at least you have a chance that a scratchy signal will be heard by another person, and with digital it's all or nothing. In 2019, the success of the mode is still heavily dependant on the Internet and that is a deal breaker for a lot of radio operators who wants a rugged communication mode that can withstand weather, noise, and anything else that nature or people can throw at us. DMR has potential though.
While the range argument is flawed (see the graph in the video again), the biggest myth that persists is that digital is dependent on the Internet. Yes, there is a lot of linking that is done via the Internet currently, but DMR can function as a standalone repeater and preserve many of the advantages discussed in the video. Or, the data connections can be made via other methods not using the Internet. In fact, we have a linked system like that on the DMR-MARC network here in Colorado.
A local DMR repeater is no less rugged than analog, and it performs better and carries more advantages.
@@K0LWC Yes, I realize that it can be a standalone repeater with no Internet connection. My counter-argument was that since many folks don't have DMR radios that the biggest selling point is that it is connected and that you can talk to other people all over the world. As you progress in this hobby you'll soon realize that none of my arguments or your arguments really matter. Digital communication is based on analog principals. It's all about modulation and encoding. Analog will always be a preferred mode for HAMs because it's simple, easy, and does the trick. Although DMR may be the new hotness right now, it will follow suit and take its rightful place among some other of the digital modes. It's useful, and I have a DMR radio... but in the end, it's just another mode much like D-STAR and Fusion.
I have never heard a poor digital signal. But analog yes, weak signal sounds weak ,where digital scores. It's communications, does it matter what method it uses as long as it's efficient and provides clear communication . DMR appears to be the best so far in terms of audio quality. Travelling around the uk shortly, so hoping to be on dmr with this new radio I have. I still have to overcome the file error read, otherwise a brand-new rig useless. Under warranty.
What's the likelihood of a simplex contact on DMR?
@@K0LWC ham since 2005 but new to DMR. What can j expect on simplex with it? Also, I'm near the Adirondacks so we have similar terrain. That being said with a 5 watt ht what can I expect in hitting a repeater?
DMR radios do BOTH analog and digital. so in an emergency you can still use analog
As long as your local repeater has power. DMR can be used without repeaters to talk anywhere in the world, I use hotspot.
@@carlsanti341 so it is skype. A radio through a cable ? C'mon, this not ham radio.
@@carlsanti341 Depends, internet takes power, your hotspot takes power. Not an effective SHTF solution, be it a hurricane, tornado, flood, freeze. Just saying.
The issue isn't the radio's capability, it's the issue of uploading data. Anyone who has gotten used to the ease of CHIRP isn't really interested in playing with CPS that is unique to every radio.
In a grid down situation there will not be a working internet so DMR will have no advantage over analog.
I love computers/digital, but in HAM, too many digital standards, fracturing the amateur operator base - not truly open specification, voice quality not as good as quality FM signal, relies on too much infrastructure, could affect allotted spectrum use down the road. Too many Fusion repeaters have analog FM switched off.
personally, I don't like talk groups in dmr. I never know where someone is. And I hate when my radio LED shows transmission, but I can't hear anything because it's from unknown group.
You can always set your radio to monitor so you hear any and all traffic on the timeslot, it’s just a radio setting. You can also private call someone direct regardless of where they are TG-wise.
K0LWC I have Wouxun KG-UVN1 and I think monitoring doesn't work in this model. When I set RX group to "none" it receives nothing. I should buy Tyt 😉
Under your desk could use some cable management. Nice video, great quality/editing. Thumbs up from me.
eye roll
If I live in an area where I've never heard any analogue frequencys traffic, will I have a better chance of making contact with someone if I use digital modes?
Just getting started with my 878UV+. Has there been any experience in the use of DMR after a natural disaster, such as a hurricane, where all telco and electric is down for the first 16-36 hours given the damage in a widespread area?
nobody can seem to answer that..cell phones and internet go down...thats all the digital right?
One thing I like about digital is you can send text messages or get GPS status updates
Whats the best mobile set up for local conversations, i.e. like a CB alternative. ? Also, do you need ham license for DMR ? i'm assuming yes..
Ham would be the best alternative, specifically analog 2M (VHF). Obviously, you’d need a license we for that. DMR is still ham radio, just a different mode and does require a license.
I still prefer analog. The "noisy fringes" are where the fun is ! To me , that's the fun of radio. With digital it's all or nothing... The signal is there or it's not.
Yes, that is true. Some people enjoy the challenge of trying to pull signals from the noise, I've certainly done my fair share. The performance aspect of digital is hard to beat.
What makes it fragile?
Points well taken. Thanks for the video.
thank you for sharing the knowledge of digital because I am new to the The digital age willing to learn wish I had gone through my ham license never did but I've listen to Scanner since I was 18 now 65 what a difference appreciate you sharing and making videos
Is there a difference between an analog and a digital strength and distance of the signal or are they equal?
what if i dont have any dmr repeaters around my area ? would this still make sense compared to an analogue radio? can it still be used to talk to analogue radios?
Digital transmission systems are the right technological advancement and offer significant advantages, superior quality and charm !!! The positive factors that you have listed are undeniable but they are very superficial and practicable in a perfect world without problems which is the opposite of the amateur radio one. I think you have made a lot of confusion between digital transmission and digital systems, since the 90s there have been digital transmissions with products made by kenwood aor ... the server system connected to the internet to which you connect and use digital "protocols" such as dmr dstar, in case of emergency or blackout are totally unreliable, because they require servers and intertnet connection infrastructures as opposed to sysop harp systems (etc etc) which offer an independent and native structure, the greater transmission distance is not real but it is the ability to understand the message that is superior because it is digitally decoded but the corrupted data packet factor and interpreter are introduced that must use the same algorithms and procedures (decoding by chip both if programmed differently does not always work) besides that the hw is the same as the software , the multiple problems encountered between using native motorola tier II versus other brands drm as btech / woxung / ... We must always contextualize and not give absolute data! 73 of IZ3QVB
Nicely done, but until the manufactures settle on a standard that allows someone to develop a CHIRP equivalent that makes importing the digital IDs well at the same time being able to cull Repeater Book and common freq into the interface, it's a nice novelty. 3000, 4000 channel slots isn't interesting if you have to load them one at a time, and repeat for each radio you have.
Hey folks I'm a n00b when it comes to HAM Radio, but not conputers and electronics. Is there any suggestions on where to start? Thank you.
www.arrl.org/getting-licensed
@@DavidS-iw4ei thank you very much I appreciate that.
@@dennisburke199 Also check out www.hamtestonline.com
You can also find study guides on amazom and ebay. I like Gordon West.
@@DavidS-iw4ei thanks again. ;-) I have too many projects going on lol! I built an old dreamcast to pc serial transfer cable, putting OpenBSD on my mini pc and working on setting up a radio station on raspberry pi zero.
Google up a local Ham club (perhaps facebook) ask if there are any courses in town. I'm in Pensacola and right now there is a course at Pensacola state college. Tuition was $20 something. There are also online courses you can purchase.
Let me first say, that from a Digital point of view, that while I agree that to some extent DMR does have it's place in the hobby and for the most part does provide good communications during rough band conditions and when Analog signal fades, having said that, we also need to recognize that the back bone of Digital Radio relies on the Internet. And even though you can still communicate with DMR should the Internet fail, it will be simplex in nature. In short, while there are those who promote all the great advantages of Digital Radio, I on the other hand feel that when all forms of communication have gone south, particularly the Internet, Cell Service and any thing digital for that extent, you can always get on Analog. While this scenario may never happen, Analog is still the most reliable form of communication we have, especially on HF where there are still many HAMs who primarily use Analog Radios.
DMR radios can do analog and digital like the Baofeng. Best of both worlds. And with a 3500mah battery.
Haven't been active for about 20 years or thereabouts and only have an hf rig in the closet but what I want to ask is 2m terrestrial DX on ssb still a thing or did it go by the wayside? Anyway good job on your video I learned something interesting I didn't know.
73's km5sk
Try using DMR on a system, when three conversations are going on using separate talk groups, it's pretty useless, the time slots will have serious packet loss for RF based systems, as far as the internet, it works alot better, through some kind of zoom spot, etc., but defeats if the purpose of backup communications if it's reliant on shore power and or IP based. My HF is for the most part reliable on 40/80 meters almost every night all over U.S. in evenings, with no need for infrastructure/grid/IP.
I don’t find DMR repeaters to have packet loss. They often outperform analog repeaters.
The big three are either d-star or fusion. Is that correct? No DMR with Yaseau, Kenwood or Icom?
Yaesu is fusion, D-Star is open source and found on Icom radios and a few Kenwood, and DMR is a Motorola protocol you find on Motorola, Hytera and Chinese manufactured radios. I prefer fusion and DMR over D-Star.
@@K0LWC Thanks
You got timeslots wrong or your explaination is a bit confusing. DMR is not two timeslots on a 25kHz bandwidth but on a 12.5kHz bandwidth. So each timeslot has 6.25kHz bandwidth. That is when you use repeaters or simplex channels with Dual Capacity enabled. Normal simplex DMR has no timeslots and works on the full 12.5kHz bandwidth and has better audio quality than DMR on one timeslot. So in theory, if you have an analog channel of 25kHz bandwidth and you use DMR on it then you can have 4 channels effectively on the same frequency.
Hello, a Friend from Work bought an DMR Radio an Week ago and he sent it back because He heard nothing on Digital Mode.
Question is, could he have used it only to listen? ONLY RX is what he called it. We havent found Answers to my Question in Internet.
Hope someone can help, tyvm
Yes, but it requires setting static talkgroups and using a personal hotspot.
Can a digital ht t/r during a shtf? Can an analog ht still function when (not if) we lose infrastructure long term?
Yea, it can.
Antycyponek You seem misinformed.
Very valid intelligent comments.just getting into dmr. I feel analog wusliyy still the best, but it's communications quality which is all we need. Not had any digital dmr qsos yet so I am having problems with code plug. Installed but cannot read the file to modify it. It connects and starts to read then fails. Tyt UV380. I will have another look soon. Will try alternative CPS to access. Otherwise will return to desler. Not a good start. Thanks for your video. De gw4gja
I think I read something on that radio. Someone said the firmware numbering doesn’t match the radio, or something like that.
Thanks for watching!
I would bet that you think MP3s sound better than analog.
Digital is all great UNTIL there is a real emergency and you have to access to internet.
Good point. And the people saying it works without internet are referring to internet outages, not a grid down for years or forever situation.
Don't see what I edited.
I have nothing to say if you associate DMR with MMDVM hotspot. DMR (and other radio protocols) CAN work without internet. You can do simplex and repeater channel for almost all radio protocols. Do more preparation before commenting.
@@galax574 you lose all credibility when you insult people. We are just having a discussion. I learned something from your second comment, but why be a dick? You have more knowledge than some of us, share it or don’t share it. Calling people names right off the bat...screams insecurity. You can be better! Thank you for the knowledge on DMR simplex
@@boringoldman Sorry about that.
👍👍👍 THANKS. ...Alan in 🇨🇱
I have quite a few DMR radios which allow a license upgrade... which allows for all incoming audio or all incoming transmissions to have normalized volume which is really handy for the over modulated close talkers are the folks that have very soft voices are speaking far away from the microphone in addition the second license allows for the radio to listen to the ambient sound and adjust the volume as needed. You were right your ear becomes a custom to the sound of digital are used to think that USB and LSB sounded weird. Though I still think VHF and UHF analogue repeaters are important in playing rules for emergency communications
People often confuse digital to mean relying on the Internet to link stuff together. Digital repeaters still offer advantages in EMCOMM situations, look no further than being able to have two simultaneous conversations on one system with DMR and their time slot system.
DMR may have it's place. But like CDs replacing vinyl albums, it's more about convenience and bells and whistle's. Digital is nightmarish when it comes to dealing with keeping a signal if anything gets in the way or you step just out of range. There are many reasons why analog will always be a much better mode for listening and also transmitting. It isn't necessary for people to be doing 10 different things all the time with everything they do. Human beings weren't meant to do that by default. I completely disagree with you on the fringe statement. Digital is either there or it's not there, and there's no in between. At least with analog you have the option of hearing the other person even if it's noisy at much greater distances. Finally what we're talking about here in terms of technology is what Nextel voice packets used to be. We are following big corporations now instead of them following us, so I don't see this is progress in ham radio. If people like digital, that's fine, and if other people like analog, that's fine. But eventually it'll be mob rule? and when most people go digit, all the people who like analog will find themselves out of luck. Let's not let analog die because digital is trendy right now. Ham Radio Outlet, Raiders are not the innovators they once were. We are now no more than simply consumers.
"Will always be"
Is a pretty big claim considering how quickly technology has been moving over the last 20 years.
First heard it 50 years ago. You can switch between them, you know.
Go cheap. Be your own splinter group.
You are absolutley correct. I have tested them, I can get better range between 2 digital 900mhz at 1watt radios than 2 analog 440mhz at 4watts radios. I love your Tesla, but I'm retired, can't afford it, I settled for a Prius.
A superb video! When I first used my DMR I was blown away with the close range clarity of voice comms. In a busy shopping centre, the other users sounded like they were in a quiet room. I think a lot of dedicated analogue radio users who look at DMR do find use / programming very overwhelming. It takes a while to get used to but it all starts making perfect sense with practice. The DMR v's Analogue range issue is controversial! Totally agree that with digital, you get a consistently clear audio signal right to the limit of range. I've also found, however, that an intelligible signal (albeit weaker and increasingly masked by interference) can be received on analogue beyond the DMR limit. Handy in the outdoors when you need every possible mile of coverage but not necessary in the urban, single building locus! Thanks so much for taking the time to make this comparison of DMR and analogue.
Hi: I like DMR and wish it was a bit more popular. I have a Motorola 7550e UHF and cooincidentally there are only 440 DMR repeaters around here in Jersey.
My favorite feature is the ability to save contacts to the radio, and their calls show up automatically. The Anytine will even show the last caller! We’ll never see that on a typical analog radio. I think the presentation of two time slots might imply there is bandwidth for two slots, but the two slots doesn’t double the bandwidth. Each slot is a time-slot, so it’s multiplexed in time, not space. An end radio talks on less that 50% duty cycle, and receives sync from the repeater. Our repeaters always transmit both slots, even when one is empty, but it also receives full time on it’s input frequency. I think the Anytone has much better features than the Motorola for amateur use. It has an antenna connector you can put an external antenna on, it had WAY more digital-contact space, which isn’t needed at all on a business radio, and it displays much more data. The Motorola has just the contact name/number limited to length. But, the Motorola has a far superior screen that is easy to see in direct sunlight. That beside it’s approvals, explosion and water proof, etc.
Commercial gear is great and rugged, but I agree the Chinese gear is much better for the ham radio community.
Very nice video, much better than average TH-cam video with echoy audio, too-loud "background" music, and / or mumbling. Extremely well done talk, and I learned a few things.
Thanks, Dave!
What the best radio you would recommend me to buu.. I prefer a 10km range.. just for me and my mother..what radio should i buy.. I don't have a ham license but i will get me one.. the problem is there are so many ham radio to choose from the market..what radio suit me??
Thanks in advance
Sounds like you’ll need a mobile radio for that kind of coverage. Any cheap 2m mobile radio will work, it’s all about the antenna.
What if you are in an area with no repeater? Doesn’t that render dmr useless? I’m still trying to find out which is best for emergency situations and most people are pointing me to ham. I’d like to get your thoughts.
No, it’s still RF - it’s just a digital endorsed signal instead of analog.
I am interested in learning more about DMR. Could you possibly make a video that explains the necessary steps to get started? Especially in building code plugs and obtaining an ID. "DMR for Dummies" would be nice. Thanks.
Ham radio isn't a hobby anymore than being a volunteer firefighter or police reservist is a hobby. It is a service ad defined by the FCC. It is impotent to understand this especially when talking to the people we offer our services to. There are hobby aspects to it but it is a service. I loved this video. Maybe you have done or will do a video on getting started for those who are not familiar with DMR hotspots, programming DMR, and using DMR. Thank you... KF0XO
I don’t think comparing amateur radio to volunteer firefighting is even remotely fair. It’s mostly a hobby with some service elements. I agree we can and do help out, but it’s so rare that the comparison is a bit off.
@@K0LWC
It isn't a matter of fairness. It is the way that the FCC defines it. One of the major reasons that we exist is because we are a "service" and one of the major justifications for the large segments of the radio spectrum that we occupy. Amateur radio is authorized more band with than any other user outside of the US government. Yes there is a hobby component to it but we justify ourselves as a service.
§97.3 Definitions.
(a) The definitions of terms used in part 97 are:
(1) Amateur operator. A person named in an amateur operator/primary license station grant on the
ULS consolidated licensee database to be the control operator of an amateur station.
(2) Amateur radio services. The amateur service, the amateur-satellite service and the radio
amateur civil emergency service.
(4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training,
intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons
interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
I’ve been thinking, since it used internet wouldn’t it be ineffective if the grid goes down? That’s the reason I’ve been studying and getting into ham.
Digital doesn’t mean Internet connected. It does have that, but digital offers advantages even when no VoIP linking is being used.
I want a set of 3 radios for my wife and mother. I know it can’t be “encrypted” but I figure a more obscure format should be fine. I only want these radios to work in a mile-ish range with one another (and I don’t care about talking to people in other states). Is DMR the best format? And would my wife/mother need to get technician licenses or would all 3 units work under my license?
Try to find three 5 watt walkie talkies with voice inversion / beat shift "scrambling". Don't spend too much on overpriced mid-tier consumer items pushed on the internet videos. Tell YT not to recommend those channels.
Mom will hate it and never want to use the things.
Does DMR Radio work without any internet repeater or Any DMR repeater.?
If the internet is down will it still work.?!
Yes, it’s still a repeater whether networked or not.
Explain. Even if it does work on a repeater without the internet (fill me in, because I don't get it), you are limited to the range of the repeater and how long a generator will keep it running in an emergency. I can talk world-wide with HF with a radio, wire antenna and a battery. Can digital? Digital is NOT better, simply different. Please, inform and don't tear down something you don't seem to understand.
there is digital-analog converter to use in a SW analog radio?
Whats your recommendation for hiking with gps option
Functions is good with dmr.. however.. Sound quality is crap... really bad actually.
You may already have a video on this, but what(in your opinion) is the cheapest($$$) way to set up a DMR hot spot? (regardless of technical skills of the builder)
Search “JumboSpot” on EBay and Google, you’ll find plenty of those Chinese hotspots for under $100.
They work well enough, but can be more problematic than other higher quality hotspots.
I feel like I got into radio as a hobby at an unfortunate time. I got my first analog radio about 2 years ago hoping to start off just learning to recieve transmissions, but I didn't have any luck picking anything up which really discouraged me. I may need to invest in a new set up for digital item. Any suggestions on a product for someone who is a beginner such as myself?
the hobby has been picking up steam recently. also look into gmrs there is quite a bit of activity there often run by hams.
Analogue is king!
We can't agree!
@@K0LWC Why must you stir up debate between groups when you’re not going to give an inch in the first place? You’re not contributing to a friendly community. It’s like divisive social media … not the professional and respectful camaraderie most of us experience still with ham radio.
I am 48, not old, not young. You are probably right about DMR being better on VHF and UHF. But VHF and UHF bores me to death!! Unless I am on SSB weak signal. SSB has greater range than DMR or FM in simplex mode. Don't get me wrong,, I am very glad DMR and other weak signal digital modes are out there bringing in the young blood, But give me 40m SSB with static crashes any day!! :)
Very different things, both equally great!
I preffered using analog since im here at Philippines and its hard to get signal because of the terrain and some dead spot signal connection.
Can analog scanners listen to the same things as a digital scanner ??
Can Digital be used from handheld to handheld on D878 without a repeater or anything else?
Yes, it can.
@@K0LWC I'm Realy New to Ham radios. Any Chance you could point me to a TH-cam Vid for a D878. I've searched Hi and Low.
Rotor What are you wanting to know or learn about the D878?
@@K0LWC Here is a scenario for a Possible TH-cam Video that Noboodys Done Yet for AnyTone 868 878 or any other DMR Radio for that matter:
Digitally encrypted Walkie-Talkies, short-range private group communications using 2 or more radios. Say for at the lake, hunting, hiking or motorbiking, snowmobiling with 878 bluethooth PTT on handlebars (Sweeeet). I’ve tried to do it but its over my head. I get stuck on the Radio IDs, Talk Groups, and Dig Contacts.
@@rotor676 We hams are not allowed to encrypt our comms.! You may want to get a copy of the rules for the amateur service. Talks about that in there.
The one thing I don't like on DMR is that some people have there audio set way to high and some others have barely any audio at all. There are lots of broken weak signals on digital as well which sound wishy washy if the digital signal is not strong enough. I love DMR just as much as analog but digital is not a replacement for analog in the Ham world, Ham radio is about challenges, experimentation etc. There is no mode or band better than another or will replace another.
I thought timeslot in DMR works by transmitting on a the same bandwidth but transmit timeslot 1 and 2 back and forth after a few milliseconds? So timeslot 1 for 30 ms, timeslot 2 for 30 ms, back to timeslot 1 for 3 ms, and so on.
I think the name is confusing people because is sounds like multiplexing when you say time slots but really its kinda like upper and lower sideband where each radio is using half the bandwidth of the channel. I think maybe these radios support both reduced bandwidth and actual timeslot and people may be confusing them with each other.
Whenever I hear someone say digital is better, they have just informed of the limits of their understanding. I usually don't listen to anything else they have to say.
I don’t hear a counter argument, likely because it’s difficult to form one.
@@K0LWC As a logician I am quite capable for formulating an argument. What I provided was an opinion. Cheers!
how is the data transmitted? will it work if internet or cell phones go down? will digital be better than analog then? Nobody talks about that?
Yes. People think digital means Internet, that’s not what it means. Digital holds advantages over analog with no VOIP linking factored in.
can i simplex ? do ppl simplex or only use repeaters ?
Both.
DMR is great until there's a disaster and you need to build your own radio or make repairs to the digital circuit
Who is building their own radio from spare parts in an emergency, MacGyver?
I prefer SSB, 144.200
I live in a hilly rural area. What do you think my average simplex range is?
Slightly better than analog, terrain is everything.
Thank you for your video. I'm getting into Ham, hopefully taking the test next month (w/ social distancing of course ...) I'm coming from a technical computer programmer background and DMR seems very interesting. However, can a DMR also do traditional analog FM/RF? It seems like you're picking either in one camp or the other. Can you listen to the ISS with DMR? Thanks for your video! Subscribe+LIKE
Great questions, and welcome to the hobby! I don’t think the ISS currently has DMR gear on board, but there are talkgroups on Brandmeister DMR that rebroadcast NASA comms.
DMR radios are all usually analog and digital in one radio, so you can do either mode from one radio and mix and match what you listen to or use in your area.
We’re seeing digital (DMR) grow in the ham hobby and much of the conversation that was once on analog repeaters is transitioning to DMR and other digital formats, just like public safety and other businesses who use radio comms.
Some of the coolest projects occurring are bridging digital protocols together (P25, DMR, YSF, etc.) with analog bridged in all in one spot.
Given your programming background you’ll enjoy DMR! Don’t worry, your DMR radio will also have analog capability! I highly recommend the AnyTone 878 as your frost radio.
73
@@K0LWC thanks for the quick reply! Now you have me going. I use the P25 at work (so you can probably guess what I do) and pretty familiar with Talkgroups/Zones, which we use as we travel from region to region. We have a Trunked system in the more popular area that makes it very convenient to chat with someone way beyond what our older VHF/UHF channels would go even with repeaters. Thanks for the info.
Meh if you wanna chat over the internet you may as well use something like discord. I find the audio quality lacking a lot of the time. I like the idea of using digital and I use dmr simplex sometimes but not very interesting to me as a whole.
Does digital still require fcc licenses?
Yes.
Digital radio sounds exactly like Nextel it's okay it is really nothing to brag about
My name is Shannon From Florida. I am new to this kinda,from Th d star side of it:) I just bought a new yaesu 3dr:) I saw that system fusion has DRM wich is confusion for me. Anyway digital is great:)
Thanks for the info!
Why don't you begin with what some of these terms are? APRS? Single repeter frequency? DMR? I think you left out DMZ!!!
Let me know when DMR is callsign based. Until then, I will gladly stay analog.
What do you mean by “callsign” based?
Always has been
@@K0LWC Where do I enter my callsign into my DMR radio ? Oh....you don't.
Where do I enter my callsign into my P25 radio ? Oh, you don't.
Digital is better ? Bullshit. DMR, all you ever hear is "does anybody have codeplug because I can't be bothered to learn my own radio". The complexity of trying to adapt a commercial standard to ham use is just a major kludge job. DSTAR isn't much better. The only digital mode that is ham and user friendly is Fusion.
Highly compressed digital audio much better than Analogue ? I don't think so. Even some noisier Analogue Audio sounds much better than the robotic audio of some Digital I've heard.
Give me System Fusion, easier to setup.
Keep the videos coming! Great work!
Very good presentation and information. Incredibly brave title.
Thank you, Chris!
are you new to youtube you dont seem like you have been on long im just asking i never have seen the channel before
Maybe a couple months?
TURBO IS FOR TAXI'S !!! Stop Mary-ing around and TX Simplex/Analog. Nextel is so 1998, Turbo is Nextel, and Turbo is for Taxi's. WhoooO WhoooO!
So it’s 🚕 radio!?
DMR for just digital voice is ok .
But most use it with the internet and chat rooms with only little actual radio - and that's what Ham Radio is ..radio ..right ?
Quality - is personal preference .. but fact with radio audio is need wider bandwidth for better audio which is why wide band fm sounds more robust on vhf uhf and AM Sounds better than ssb ..
73
Got my first ham license in 1994, analog is a great work horse.
How can you do dmr from a vehicle
Using an HT via repeater or hotspot using cell phone as a modem. There are also mobile radios available. Check and see if you have a DMR repeater in your area.
@@K0LWC thanks bro I'll be looking at it
Hi good video.
One question. ! Does DMR digital radio work when internet shuts down on earth.
If i buy couple of DMR radio can i Encrypt those sort of speak privacy. And when internet shuts down in the world. It will still work.
Thats my bigg question for preppers.?!
The digital molds are being pushed by the manufacturers to stay relevant and generate more sales. It's a solution in search of a problem. I can't even justify it for emergency communications because we were doing CW,, voice, digital modes, via analog for years. Isn't it interesting how ham radio operators using analog symplex mobile radios for years Have been able to travel safely while still enjoying the hobby. Now with digital duplex multimode communications, i.e., cell phones. People are dying because of distracted drivers all the time. Ham Radio operators using analog radio gear have been providing emergency communications and relaying radio messages and other voice traffic for probably almost 75 or 80 years. if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
It was fun just learning how the modes work. DMR was more fun before DMR scanners came out.
Using some software and a DMR radio you could monitor business/public safety DMR users who were sold a system "scanners cannot monitor".
Now that DMR scanners came out many local DMR users have enabled voice encryption.
No fun.
Encryption is indeed becoming more common, not just for public safety for even your average business.
@@K0LWC
Even the road commission is encrypted .
Is he conflating DMR and digital? It seems to be so. That is confusing.