The hands might have played out the same way unless Doug failed in trying to show Wesley how to bluff Tom. Wesley didn't intentionally show his cards to Doug.
It's a reasonable tank to raise or to call. Dwan is never folding, and he counted combos that he could beat so he can decide whether he can raise it or not.
Durrrr can try to justify it by saying there were tough decisions for big money, but I think he was just torturing Doug for all of those videos about Dwan owing money and ducking people. Let him squirm and then roll over a hand you were never folding. Edit: someone else called it a "revenge roll." I agree with that description.
@@Nikkithedog-t6b and if you use any logic at all, then it’s almost certainly a snap call. 6 minutes of ‘thinking’ when realistically you’re only losing to one hand as played?
I think Polk and dwan hate each of other.. I could be wrong.. but I think dwan was wondering if it was worth jamming.. like if it's possible that Polk will call .. and if he wasn't it was worth punishing polk to just flat lol
@@internetguyfromtheinternet It wasn't that - the insane tank on the turn was obviously pre clock call. Either his brain is broken and it takes him 6 minutes to work through trivial spots or he's intentionally slowrolling.
BTW not sure why people keep saying "he was never thinking of folding" in the comments. Of course he was never thinking of folding which is why I never even brought up that possibility.
Doesn’t the term “nit roll” imply he was thinking of folding? Haven’t ever heard the term used to describe a situation where someone was contemplating between raising and calling.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 I agree a nitroll is someone who thought about folding a good hand when it's obvious they should call. I once nitrolled QQ preflop, because I was playing in 15 game tournament series, that you earn points, and I only needed to bust out 1 more player to win the series, and there was 2 allins in front of me, 5 handed. So there was additional money implications outside of winning just the tournament I was in. So I announced to the table I was not nitrolling them, but explained the points implications. I called after like 30 sec tank.
@@CanadianLoveKnot It's either. Thinking about just calling with a great hand or folding a good hand. That said, this wasn't really a nitroll since a raise is a bit pointless (called by 4 combos of worse, called by 4 combos of better basically). Unless you think Doug can't ever have KK, then he only has 1 combo of better and it's an easy raise. Either way, the river decision is pretty easy once you've decided whether or not he can have KK and then it just becomes an ultra dickish slowroll.
I was watching this live and saying, “it’s not between ‘call’ and ‘fold’, it’s between ‘call’ and ‘raise”. I understand why Polk is annoyed because when someone tanks for that long, you expect there is a chance they fold a certain percent of the time, when in actuality there’s zero chance they’re folding. But I see why Tom took that long because it is close between calling and raising considering how deep they are playing and how polarizing Polk’s river bet is.
It's just INSANE to show your cards -- most especially at these kind of nosebleed stakes. These are CHARACTER-BENDING stakes -- unless you're a billionaire. And Bart is right about the practical money issues, too.
Tom is a pro and has to know he's got the best hand. He took forever to get back at Doug for his shit talking and calling the clock. It was brutal to watch though smh
It's stunning to me that both live and in this analysis there is a massive misunderstanding of Dwan's move here. There is never a point where Dwan is thinking of anything but how to max value this hand. His turn tank is directly to get Doug to spazz the river, which he does. This is Dwan getting into Dougs head and he does.
Yeah, he literally says at the end his tank is to decide whether to shove for the other $460k on the river or just call, he's never folding. Shoving the $460k he needs to decide whether he gets called by a worse hand more often than by a better hand, that's the tricky bit.
Exactly… so of the 500,000 ppl who have watched this and think they know what’s going on… I finally found the 20 or so people who actually have a clue… thank you😂
I think he's decising whether to 3bet and deny equity or just call and hope polk will spazz river. It's not an act or anything, or to get in his head. He's running the EV
Exactly, he was making himself look somewhat weak and then the overbet on river got him to thinking of what hands worse could call a shove and just went thru his range and just called.
Btw Bart, did you hear after the 3.1mil hand that Dwan referenced the timing of Wesleys river shove, and it seemed to be a significant factor that Tom thought Wes was bluffing. I didn't even pay attention to it in the hand cause I was going crazy, but I watched it again after Dwan said that, and he was right on, Wes really took his time on the flop and turn, then nearly snap shoved the river... its funny cause Dwans ranging of Wesley in that hand I thought was way way off, he was worried about Wes 5betting pre flop with an 8 which I thought was a 0% chance, just like how in this hand he made the incorrect comment about 76s, so his application of hand reading at the table seems kind of lacking, however his live reads are a level above and he seems way more invested in those than anything else. Idk, crazy to watch him navigate, very unique player, wish we could hear his thoughts
I mean, tons of CLP videos reference incredibly quick river bets often being bluffs, so that's consistent. I think that's an easy call (if you ignore the money and just look at BBs in the abstract) against Wesley already and then trivially easy once he snap bets and hides his head.
Wes 5 bet A7 later in the stream so I don’t think that it’s all that wild to contemplate flopped trips, dwan has played in a good amount of private games with Wes so I figure he’s seen him 5 bet 89s 78s A8s and such
@@DylanCoulter-gb7mv that's true it did sound like they played a bit before so maybe dwan had seen some weird 5bets, my read was that the A7s 5bet later was just tilt and probably leveling himself into "they won't think im bluffing again after the last one"
I also heard how durrr took some offense to what Polk had said about him in one of his videos. I could definitely see it as a needle on dwan’s part, for sure.
_One of_ Polk's videos?!? Man you have no idea how many shots Polk has taken on Dwan over the years. I promise you that this was a drawn-out revenge-roll.
I jokingly called out in the chat what a nit roll but I realized on the river that Tom really was thinking: “Can I jam and get called by worse. I don’t know if Tom was able to do the correct hand reading and see if 76s was possible but I guess he trying to figure out hands other than deuces full. If work out all the possible combos and throw in one combo of pocket kings it is really close. You beat 4 value combos in 3 combos of 2’s and 1 combos of K6s. And then lose to KK and 66. And I think Doug is a good enough player to get away from 22 and K6 here.
No, Dwan was never thinking about jamming, or if he was it was only for a little while. But look at how his body language gave up pretty early that he was not going to jam. He gave off too many tells at that point to jam
I agree with Bart that the amount of money available definitely factors into these decisions. Even in my 25-50 or 50-100 NLH or PLO games, I sometimes only had 1 good bullet and would never shove on a big bet on the river without the nuts. Middle Boats, Face card flushes, and others would automatically become calls when facing bets on the river because I wanted to stay in the game. But I'm pretty sure that Tom knew what he was going to do long before clock was called. He was inflicting max pain on Doug and that makes sense if you consider some of Doug's videos about Tom (that are later referenced in the stream - Jungleman debt, etc.). This was a brutal slow roll, even beyond nit roll. Tom doesn't even flip over his cards as soon as Doug says, "You win." This was not a tough decision that required a deep tank.
I am inclined to believe that is revenge. If you spend a total of 10 minutes on your turn and river decisions, and then don’t immediately know the number of available hands you are playing against, it means you were never thinking about them. Dwan was playing to punish Doug, however poker does allow for that. Unless there is a time limit on decisions at all times, punishing people you dislike by slowrolling, nitrolling etc is an option. I don’t suggest it’s a nice option, but it is always there. The phrase is Revenge is a dish which people of taste prefer to eat cold.
@@jimbojones9118 what you just said directly correlates to what i said. Dwan is risking a good % of his bankroll if he’s wrong. Relax mr professional lol
@ep3578 no it's not, Dwan plays these stakes and higher in Macau all the time. It's well within his bankroll, plus he is probably backed or staked and would have no problem finding backers or people to buy his action
@Jesse Austin I've watched it live and maybe 4 times over just to try and look through Dwans eyes And then I've watched different analysis on that hand
Dwan didn’t even realize 67s wasn’t possible. He also said that Doug isn’t balanced. Doug never flats KK (he confirmed this) here, so he spends 6 min in the tank when he only loses to quad 6s. I get the single bullet thing but if Doug has quads so be it. I would also think this creates a green light to bluff Dwan the remainder of the night for those that can rebuy.
You're missing the fact that Dwan was not considering folding, that he was only weighing the small chance of getting a shove paid off, versus the small chance of shoving into quads. He also said when interviewed, that after Doug called the clock on the turn, he was going to try to extract every dollar from Doug that he could, that he considered it to be war after the clock was called. So, it wasn't fear, it wasn't a tendency to fold, it was a desire to use every second of computing available, to decide whether shoving would more likely punish Polk or reward Polk.
@@EfficientRVer - maybe I’m not understanding what you’re saying, but your comment seems to contradict itself. If Dwan is upset about the clock being called, shouldn’t jamming be his only conclusion if he wants every possible dollar? Either Dwan is worried about only having a single bullet, or he wants to extract max value. Can’t really have it both ways. Obviously folding is out of the question. There’s 1 combo of 66 that he loses to, but several that would like call a jam. Maybe Doug gets away from 22, but the value hands in his range better than that have to call.
@@blazeron12 Lol. Yea and that time Doug say his cards. Doug and Wesley should have watched Daniel Negranou's Master Class. "Can't be all loosey at th poker table."
@@ryanjones-mk8rs As he stated, he also didn't want to reward Polk. To add on, Wesley later attempted to bluff Durr and it could very well be it because he was influenced by this hand.
8:11 to clarify tom said hes never had the clock called on him this deep _on the turn_ and _by a pro._ And he kind of tanks on the river out of spite to make sure he weighs every little detail to make the absolute best decision afterwards. Like bc of the turn clock call (which he says a pro should never do) he’s going to ignore all etiquette and make sure he extracts max value
@@davidgunter2355 Durr has played 20 million dollar buy ins before, this is not his biggest pot. Used to play in private games probably for the yakuza or some shit
The bullet question certainly comes into play. They are both good enough to know the odds and play this hand through, but the added bit of information because Wesley saw the cards does come into play. Great review.
i think i completely agree with the how many bullets they have in this game, doug not calling the ajs hand later with aa is in a very similar situation.
Pretty sure this is a combination of things. The fact Doug has dogged Dwan for years is the number 1 reason, the fact he called clock added to it, and a little bit was Tom trying to decide to actually call or shove. It was funny watching this, the guys at the table consider themselves high rollers, but Dwan is on an entirely different level, and these amounts don't phase him that much.
been watching old high stakes poker on poker go. dwan has always done this hasn’t he? they call him durr for a reason. he’s always thinking, taking a long time on every decision. it may be shitty to play against but i don’t think he’s deliberately wasting time and this pot was enormous
Was nobody watching ? He wasnt tanking a call he was tanking a jam or not . Ive been in this spot many many times before where im tanking if i should rejam or allin of just flat calling here. He even said it was a definate call . Easy call for him. He wasnt so sure if he should jam or not
Good video, Bart, but I wish you could have lowered the volume of the game video while you were talking so we could hear you clearly. It was quite distracting.
the analysis to be done on whether to call or raise is < 1 minute given how few value hands there are. It is possible that because of the huge criticism Dwan received from Polk that Tom was v nervous in this hand ... he looked v uncomfortable, hence the huge nitroll.
I just don't believe dwan was thinking about folding here. Could Polk be betting like this with 22 or even just a 6? If so, shoving makes sense, so hard for Polk to fold. Dwan is right it's close.
At a live game Polk's behavior would also be concerning to me. On the turn when he had outs with 3 and 8 he was way more confident and even called a clock on Dwan. When betting the river, though, he suddenly froze for 5 minutes and didn't even move. Also, his head was twisted away from Dwan strangely - I know it could be acting but it would definitely influence my decision.
Yes, especially when you're playing 1,000 big blind deep. In this type of game there should be no clock calling but since there is it should be 3-5 minutes to decide and a 2 min extension Countdown if someone calls the clock not 1 minute because playing the biggest game ever with lots of money. In a 1-3 or 2-5 game there should always be a clock because you're playing for chump change, no reason to take 5-10 minutes to make a decision.
Honestly, I think, this was a well disguised slow roll! We know they don’t like each other! And, the way he did this to Polk waaaas LEGENDARY! Honestly, I think that’s what it was! He’s not raising, I’m sure he had it set in his mind on the turn what he was doing on the turn and river! He’s one of the best at his craft for a long long time to tank that long on a river he’s not raising! That was a LEGENDARY hidden “FU 🖕🏼” to Doug! Well done DWAN! Well done, indeed👏👏👏👏👏
You are 100% right. Just look at Dwan's body language, he is never jamming there, he gave away too much info. He was going to call and was just slowrolling him
Pretty loose flop call with 54, but he actually does have a ton of straight outs because of connectivity with the 2 and the 7. Same chance of hitting a straight as 89 does
I disagree... I think given Durr's background (pre-solver generation, online wizard to THE star of HSP, to playing nosebleeds with filthy rich Chinse businessmen in Macau...), he approaches poker a lot more psychological than GTO/math. Poker has evolved to be more mathematical than feelings and ego, but it shouldn't mean reads aren't a thing anymore. Look back at some of the biggest plays he made on HSP, did he block value? Not really. QT vs AA vs 42? He knew Peter had trips and would fold. The 72 bluff on his heads up challenge? It was just a pure gut feeling that his opponent had him on a monster and would fold. Even here he spent the majority of his tank wondering what Wesley's comment meant about Doug's hand. It's kind of crazy to note that one of the most idolized players ever spent 10mins in the hand and couldn't figure out 76s was impossible, BUT maybe to him it genuinely wasn't that important. Yes 76/K6 *should* be suited, but does it have to be? Doug was playing 40%+ vpip that night. What says Doug can't ever show up with off suit combos? But even then, how often are you getting value vs. running into the stones? In the 3.1M hand against Wesley later he also suspected trips way more than AA/KK. It's a 5bet pot and Durr just insisted QQ was best pre. Later this was proven right as Wesley showed up with A7s (note, A7s, not A5s, not GTO approved) in a 5bet pot against Hank. So I do believe it that maybe in Dwan's mind assigning solver ranges wasn't as important as the human aspects of the game. He also expained that he was waiting for the clock call since he thought Doug would never call clock with a value hand that throws up at a shove (trip 6s). This is something that solvers would never consider, but Durr having played live nosebleeds for 15yrs would. Yes it's sort of ridiculous at first sight how this hand went down, but I don't think this was a slowroll.
The only thing I'd disagree with you on is that in the QT vs AA vs 42 hand, blockers did play a key part in his decision. The fact he has a Ten on a T22 board means there's only one way that BarryG can have 10s full. Barry even explained his own thought process later, and lamented when he was trying to process everything and figure out if Dwan was bluffing, the question he kept asking was "how does he know I don't have 10s full?" He only realized later that the reason was because Dwan had a 10.
yeah I noticed watching live that he messed up the combos of possible hands lol, idk this hand was so strange live. The only possibility I see is that in all the big hands, Dwan was SUPER intrigued by weird live read situations, like Wes' comment pre flop, Dougs turn clock call, Wes still 3betting in the 3.1mil pot after Doug announced he saw his hand, etc. so maybe, Tom just got really lost in his thoughts in this one on the turn/river and tanked forever. Or, it was simply just to silently say fuck you to Doug
Tom explained this, he stated he took so long because he was thinking of jamming over just calling and obv never folding so I don’t think this is that crazy. It’s a very big money sitch. If you watched the later hands that LSG dude tanked super long as well until jamming with his AJ against Polk too.
This isn’t like Robbie, To Garrett “ I thought you had A high, so you then call with J high..that will always be the worst explanation for not being drunk or high at the table.
Love Polk, but I don't think it was a NIT call(s). Know did Dwan wait almost 6 mins on river & claim he was thinking about raising - no. But hard to tell....money changes the game.
They are a million dollars deep and he’s trying to figure out how to get all the money. I think there is a real decision on whether to 3b or call the turn raise
At around 13:45 into the video, Bart started to sound like Vizzini from The Princess Bride. “Surely, I cannot choose the cup in front of me.” “You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is, “Never get involved in a land war in Asia” - but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line”! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!”
Both Polk and Dwan are world-class players. So is Bart, did he say it was unsound ? To be balanced, you have to have bluffs in all spots, if Doug gets to the turn with an open ender, that is a perfectly normal hand to bluff with - you have fold equity and if called have cards to catch. also, consider that Doug is splashing it up some because The HCL stream is partial to having loosey-goosey action players and has an aversion to allowing top-notch players to play.
@@ryanjones4150 given stack depth and range disadvantage there are no hands in Doug's range that want to raise turn, piling money in at this SPR just funnels Dwan's range into the nuts
@@eamonnarasaratnam7213 The range disadvantage belongs to Dwan, Doug can have strong hands there that Dwan cannot since his range is more narrow as the pre-flop 3-bettor, thus the need to have some bluffs as well to balance his range. Dwan's strong hands are only trip sevens and kings, the rest of his range consists of one pair hands and air. You are totally wrong.
I think Durrrr only called instead of jamming because he wanted Doug to see his hand... to let Doug know he was doing this intentionally. This was about revenge and sticking it to Doug imo. If Durrrr jams, Doug folds and Tom can't twist the needle. Notice that he slowrolled him at the end too. Seems like this was all done just to screw with Doug.
Million dollar pot with two world class players. I can’t believe Dwan gets second guessed by almost everybody. He punishes other players, maybe he was slow because he was sniffing glue in the parking lot
When you play enough poker online and you get constantly hammered with Kk or 66 in this positions, it leaves scars. Only amateurs and rec player can say this is "always a shove".
I think it had nothing to do with Wesley being shown his hand. I think Doug's mistake was subconsciously advertising to the table on his mediocre hole cards by stating "I played a big pot with that once" meaning it most likely wasn't a substantial holding type of hands. When I was watching this live I thought for certain Tom picked up on that however I didn't think he would tank that hard. Only hands beating him was KK and seeing as he didn't over bet the river I find that story unlikely and a jam on the river with 66 would've certainly happened. I could also see the cards but the playing and betting narrowed it a lot. Doug didn't 4 bet, which, why would he? But I think if he had maybe kings would've been in the realm of possibilities though regardless I think in the end Tom was calling 100% regardless, he was only tanking just simply looking for a sign that would reveal more information. There was no other skill other than angling in that specific situation..
Lol by seeing each other cards Doug and Wesley helped Tom get richer 😂😂😂
Maybe now he can pay Jungle
@@JuvianTV It would be a tank fest
@@gintokisakata-ob5jx why would you hate Tom
Daniel Negreanu quote here.
The hands might have played out the same way unless Doug failed in trying to show Wesley how to bluff Tom. Wesley didn't intentionally show his cards to Doug.
Absolutely brutal to watch this live. I can't imagine being in Doug's position. -_-
Excuse me, 700k in the pot. People fold top set of queens on ordinary board
It's a reasonable tank to raise or to call. Dwan is never folding, and he counted combos that he could beat so he can decide whether he can raise it or not.
Durrrr can try to justify it by saying there were tough decisions for big money, but I think he was just torturing Doug for all of those videos about Dwan owing money and ducking people. Let him squirm and then roll over a hand you were never folding.
Edit: someone else called it a "revenge roll." I agree with that description.
💯
So he's mad a Doug for telling the truth.
No, turn move is to get Doug to overbet river and river decision was to shove or not. That's it, it's pretty basic.
@@Nikkithedog-t6b how does that change the actual facts of durr ducking or not paying up?
@@Nikkithedog-t6b and if you use any logic at all, then it’s almost certainly a snap call. 6 minutes of ‘thinking’ when realistically you’re only losing to one hand as played?
I still just think it was a super sadistic multi-street slowroll. One of the absolute most brutal hands we may ever see.
I believe so yes, he probably didn't like being called the clock on the turn and decided to slow roll Polk
yea i don't know why it's even a debate, he obviously got butthurt about the clock call and decided to slowroll
I think Polk and dwan hate each of other.. I could be wrong.. but I think dwan was wondering if it was worth jamming.. like if it's possible that Polk will call .. and if he wasn't it was worth punishing polk to just flat lol
@@internetguyfromtheinternet It wasn't that - the insane tank on the turn was obviously pre clock call. Either his brain is broken and it takes him 6 minutes to work through trivial spots or he's intentionally slowrolling.
It’s so obvious. I kinda like the passive aggressiveness of it tho tbh lol
Imagine multiple players playing gigantic pots against Tom dwan and giving him free information
BTW not sure why people keep saying "he was never thinking of folding" in the comments. Of course he was never thinking of folding which is why I never even brought up that possibility.
Doesn’t the term “nit roll” imply he was thinking of folding? Haven’t ever heard the term used to describe a situation where someone was contemplating between raising and calling.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 I agree a nitroll is someone who thought about folding a good hand when it's obvious they should call. I once nitrolled QQ preflop, because I was playing in 15 game tournament series, that you earn points, and I only needed to bust out 1 more player to win the series, and there was 2 allins in front of me, 5 handed. So there was additional money implications outside of winning just the tournament I was in. So I announced to the table I was not nitrolling them, but explained the points implications. I called after like 30 sec tank.
@@CanadianLoveKnot It's either. Thinking about just calling with a great hand or folding a good hand. That said, this wasn't really a nitroll since a raise is a bit pointless (called by 4 combos of worse, called by 4 combos of better basically). Unless you think Doug can't ever have KK, then he only has 1 combo of better and it's an easy raise. Either way, the river decision is pretty easy once you've decided whether or not he can have KK and then it just becomes an ultra dickish slowroll.
What a strange comment, that's exactly what you were implying.
How is it a nit roll if he was never thinking of folding?
I was watching this live and saying, “it’s not between ‘call’ and ‘fold’, it’s between ‘call’ and ‘raise”. I understand why Polk is annoyed because when someone tanks for that long, you expect there is a chance they fold a certain percent of the time, when in actuality there’s zero chance they’re folding. But I see why Tom took that long because it is close between calling and raising considering how deep they are playing and how polarizing Polk’s river bet is.
The reason Dwan took that long was to punish Polk for calling time on him.
It's just INSANE to show your cards -- most especially at these kind of nosebleed stakes. These are CHARACTER-BENDING stakes -- unless you're a billionaire. And Bart is right about the practical money issues, too.
Thank you Bart. I hope you are going to analyze the Wesley vs Dwan 3.1 mill hand also. I really want to see your analysis on that! Thank you again!
Tom waited for this moment for so much longer than six minutes
But he’ll never finish a heads up challenge lol
@@Unhingedanduninformed who cares about headsup 😂
Tom is a pro and has to know he's got the best hand. He took forever to get back at Doug for his shit talking and calling the clock. It was brutal to watch though smh
@@electricfeel9501 exactly , a lot of people are blind to the dirty side of poker , Tom threw a stone and hid his hand
@lloydchristmas1086 Both the people featured in this video and millions of others that followed the saga over the years
Excellent analysis as always. Thanks Bart. I think Durr was genuinely contemplating the push.
It's stunning to me that both live and in this analysis there is a massive misunderstanding of Dwan's move here. There is never a point where Dwan is thinking of anything but how to max value this hand. His turn tank is directly to get Doug to spazz the river, which he does. This is Dwan getting into Dougs head and he does.
Yeah, he literally says at the end his tank is to decide whether to shove for the other $460k on the river or just call, he's never folding. Shoving the $460k he needs to decide whether he gets called by a worse hand more often than by a better hand, that's the tricky bit.
One of the few people here that understand poker.
Exactly… so of the 500,000 ppl who have watched this and think they know what’s going on… I finally found the 20 or so people who actually have a clue… thank you😂
I think he's decising whether to 3bet and deny equity or just call and hope polk will spazz river. It's not an act or anything, or to get in his head. He's running the EV
Exactly, he was making himself look somewhat weak and then the overbet on river got him to thinking of what hands worse could call a shove and just went thru his range and just called.
Btw Bart, did you hear after the 3.1mil hand that Dwan referenced the timing of Wesleys river shove, and it seemed to be a significant factor that Tom thought Wes was bluffing. I didn't even pay attention to it in the hand cause I was going crazy, but I watched it again after Dwan said that, and he was right on, Wes really took his time on the flop and turn, then nearly snap shoved the river... its funny cause Dwans ranging of Wesley in that hand I thought was way way off, he was worried about Wes 5betting pre flop with an 8 which I thought was a 0% chance, just like how in this hand he made the incorrect comment about 76s, so his application of hand reading at the table seems kind of lacking, however his live reads are a level above and he seems way more invested in those than anything else. Idk, crazy to watch him navigate, very unique player, wish we could hear his thoughts
I mean, tons of CLP videos reference incredibly quick river bets often being bluffs, so that's consistent. I think that's an easy call (if you ignore the money and just look at BBs in the abstract) against Wesley already and then trivially easy once he snap bets and hides his head.
Wes 5 bet A7 later in the stream so I don’t think that it’s all that wild to contemplate flopped trips, dwan has played in a good amount of private games with Wes so I figure he’s seen him 5 bet 89s 78s A8s and such
@@Jermo484 exactly, especially when board texture changes on the river and villain still snap bets, one of the only "tells" I trust
@@DylanCoulter-gb7mv that's true it did sound like they played a bit before so maybe dwan had seen some weird 5bets, my read was that the A7s 5bet later was just tilt and probably leveling himself into "they won't think im bluffing again after the last one"
I also heard how durrr took some offense to what Polk had said about him in one of his videos. I could definitely see it as a needle on dwan’s part, for sure.
_One of_ Polk's videos?!? Man you have no idea how many shots Polk has taken on Dwan over the years. I promise you that this was a drawn-out revenge-roll.
I jokingly called out in the chat what a nit roll but I realized on the river that Tom really was thinking: “Can I jam and get called by worse. I don’t know if Tom was able to do the correct hand reading and see if 76s was possible but I guess he trying to figure out hands other than deuces full. If work out all the possible combos and throw in one combo of pocket kings it is really close. You beat 4 value combos in 3 combos of 2’s and 1 combos of K6s. And then lose to KK and 66. And I think Doug is a good enough player to get away from 22 and K6 here.
K66 or 667 could surely call, he really only loses to 66.
@@Mauricio-kf8qx true, but he's double blocking 667, so discounting that entirely is not irrational.
No, Dwan was never thinking about jamming, or if he was it was only for a little while. But look at how his body language gave up pretty early that he was not going to jam. He gave off too many tells at that point to jam
Every bone in his body wanted to raise river, but couldn’t find a worst hand that called.
I agree with Bart that the amount of money available definitely factors into these decisions. Even in my 25-50 or 50-100 NLH or PLO games, I sometimes only had 1 good bullet and would never shove on a big bet on the river without the nuts. Middle Boats, Face card flushes, and others would automatically become calls when facing bets on the river because I wanted to stay in the game.
But I'm pretty sure that Tom knew what he was going to do long before clock was called. He was inflicting max pain on Doug and that makes sense if you consider some of Doug's videos about Tom (that are later referenced in the stream - Jungleman debt, etc.). This was a brutal slow roll, even beyond nit roll. Tom doesn't even flip over his cards as soon as Doug says, "You win." This was not a tough decision that required a deep tank.
Doug took that really well. I would have flipped the table if someone made me sit for six minutes to only call my bluff with the second nuts.
3rd nuts
@@RaizorB 🤓🤓🤓
Yea and Dwan's reply "I was thinking about raising" wow, that would have set me off. I probably would have told him to go F himseld
They're playing for hundreds of thousands of Dollars here man
you might need therapy
I am inclined to believe that is revenge. If you spend a total of 10 minutes on your turn and river decisions, and then don’t immediately know the number of available hands you are playing against, it means you were never thinking about them. Dwan was playing to punish Doug, however poker does allow for that. Unless there is a time limit on decisions at all times, punishing people you dislike by slowrolling, nitrolling etc is an option. I don’t suggest it’s a nice option, but it is always there. The phrase is Revenge is a dish which people of taste prefer to eat cold.
A slight nitroll. I believe dwan said he had to decide to rip it or just flat. I cant blame him tho. Thats a ton of money
Has nothing to do with the amount of money, it's whether or not shoving is profitable long term.
Yea stop bringing up how much $$ it is, that's irrelevant. All that matters is the amount of $ is within his bankroll
@@jimbojones9118 what you just said directly correlates to what i said. Dwan is risking a good % of his bankroll if he’s wrong. Relax mr professional lol
And it was blatantly obvious that was his decision.
@ep3578 no it's not, Dwan plays these stakes and higher in Macau all the time. It's well within his bankroll, plus he is probably backed or staked and would have no problem finding backers or people to buy his action
Doug polk is such a class act.
I've watched this hand 15 times and im still blown away of he's inner peace
Doug seem like a very likeable guy
@@Ghost-jq2bg Yeah hes super cool to peoples faces then makes videos shit talking them. What a guy.
what kind of time do you have available to you to waste and watch the same hand 15 times?
@Jesse Austin I've watched it live and maybe 4 times over just to try and look through Dwans eyes
And then I've watched different analysis on that hand
@@lloydchristmas1086He makes videos about scumbags. You probably are one thats why they upset you.
If someone says “I’m never folding” in Dwans spot on the River is it binding?
I think tom uses the passage of time to help determine the strength of doug's hand. Genius. Doug looks uncomfortable. Calls clock.
Why does 66 with a diamond call. Why would he call with blockers to the diamond draw? Can someone explain that to me? Thanks.
Dwan didn’t even realize 67s wasn’t possible. He also said that Doug isn’t balanced. Doug never flats KK (he confirmed this) here, so he spends 6 min in the tank when he only loses to quad 6s.
I get the single bullet thing but if Doug has quads so be it. I would also think this creates a green light to bluff Dwan the remainder of the night for those that can rebuy.
Wesley thought it was a good idea to bluff him later in the night. Tom won 3.1 Million $ with 1 pair.
You're missing the fact that Dwan was not considering folding, that he was only weighing the small chance of getting a shove paid off, versus the small chance of shoving into quads. He also said when interviewed, that after Doug called the clock on the turn, he was going to try to extract every dollar from Doug that he could, that he considered it to be war after the clock was called. So, it wasn't fear, it wasn't a tendency to fold, it was a desire to use every second of computing available, to decide whether shoving would more likely punish Polk or reward Polk.
@@EfficientRVer - maybe I’m not understanding what you’re saying, but your comment seems to contradict itself. If Dwan is upset about the clock being called, shouldn’t jamming be his only conclusion if he wants every possible dollar? Either Dwan is worried about only having a single bullet, or he wants to extract max value. Can’t really have it both ways.
Obviously folding is out of the question. There’s 1 combo of 66 that he loses to, but several that would like call a jam. Maybe Doug gets away from 22, but the value hands in his range better than that have to call.
@@blazeron12 Lol. Yea and that time Doug say his cards. Doug and Wesley should have watched Daniel Negranou's Master Class. "Can't be all loosey at th poker table."
@@ryanjones-mk8rs As he stated, he also didn't want to reward Polk. To add on, Wesley later attempted to bluff Durr and it could very well be it because he was influenced by this hand.
8:11 to clarify tom said hes never had the clock called on him this deep _on the turn_ and _by a pro._ And he kind of tanks on the river out of spite to make sure he weighs every little detail to make the absolute best decision afterwards. Like bc of the turn clock call (which he says a pro should never do) he’s going to ignore all etiquette and make sure he extracts max value
This
Best take I have seen, in my opinion
It's hilarious cuz the whole table prob thought Dwan was tanking river cuz he could fold but whole time he's just thinking about shoving😂
Def felt like a nit roll watching it live
No it’s not
Maybe he designed to make someone bluff him in a 3.1 million dollar pot
You play the biggest pot of your life. You need to get it right.
@@davidgunter2355 Durr has played 20 million dollar buy ins before, this is not his biggest pot. Used to play in private games probably for the yakuza or some shit
@@Zach-lz1zh seems very vague, any links to this actual happening?
Toms not tanking to think…he’s tanking to teach Doug a lesson, max pain! It worked
The bullet question certainly comes into play. They are both good enough to know the odds and play this hand through, but the added bit of information because Wesley saw the cards does come into play. Great review.
12:27 How can you have two combos of quad 6s? I must be missing something.
I wonder if Dwan used the fact Wesley hid his face here for bluff for later his QQ. Cuz that was a tough call.
This review was F*****g awesome !!! That's it ‼ thanks a lot ‼‼‼💖
river tank seems like a pretty clear response to having the clock called on the turn.
i think i completely agree with the how many bullets they have in this game, doug not calling the ajs hand later with aa is in a very similar situation.
Pretty sure this is a combination of things. The fact Doug has dogged Dwan for years is the number 1 reason, the fact he called clock added to it, and a little bit was Tom trying to decide to actually call or shove. It was funny watching this, the guys at the table consider themselves high rollers, but Dwan is on an entirely different level, and these amounts don't phase him that much.
I completely understand Dawns tanking and overall how he played the hand. Very good breakdown Bart.
Durrr is great, not a nit. It's a million dollar decision whether to go all-in or not. He was never folding 7-7 obv.
I like your hand
KK? no
66? no
54 sooted? yes, makes sense
How much time would he get online?
been watching old high stakes poker on poker go. dwan has always done this hasn’t he? they call him durr for a reason. he’s always thinking, taking a long time on every decision. it may be shitty to play against but i don’t think he’s deliberately wasting time and this pot was enormous
Was nobody watching ? He wasnt tanking a call he was tanking a jam or not . Ive been in this spot many many times before where im tanking if i should rejam or allin of just flat calling here. He even said it was a definate call . Easy call for him. He wasnt so sure if he should jam or not
Good video, Bart, but I wish you could have lowered the volume of the game video while you were talking so we could hear you clearly. It was quite distracting.
the analysis to be done on whether to call or raise is < 1 minute given how few value hands there are. It is possible that because of the huge criticism Dwan received from Polk that Tom was v nervous in this hand ... he looked v uncomfortable, hence the huge nitroll.
The irony of Wes and Doug seeing each others hands in two of three of the biggest pots ever in HCL, and on the same evening, is just unreal
And both against Dwan..
@@ItsBeausy the last opponent you would ever want give free information to...
The fact that he didn't know the combos tells me it was a slow roll. That's pretty basic stuff. He was twisting the knife imo
Could Tom have thought that Doug had pocket 2's in this case? Which would justify the tank on the river whether to all in or just call.
even if dwan is capable of making a big fold. anybody that has been seing durr play knows hes never folding there, come on now
He is 1000bb deep, it is a really close decision to shove or call.
Mind-boggling hand. It the beginning I thought Dwan was acting but then... Tom Dwan not only took Doug Polk chips but he also took our time.
I don't think we have to think about Polk lending money to Dawn.
I just don't believe dwan was thinking about folding here. Could Polk be betting like this with 22 or even just a 6? If so, shoving makes sense, so hard for Polk to fold. Dwan is right it's close.
At a live game Polk's behavior would also be concerning to me. On the turn when he had outs with 3 and 8 he was way more confident and even called a clock on Dwan. When betting the river, though, he suddenly froze for 5 minutes and didn't even move. Also, his head was twisted away from Dwan strangely - I know it could be acting but it would definitely influence my decision.
with KK you would have reraised the flop seen 2 diamonds, you also might reraise with 22 as well. This was the key to read at the end.
Why the heck would you raise the flop with kk? If you flatted a 3 bet with kk, raising that flop would be insane.
Comeon man he is obviously never folding. He was thinking shove or call. And it didn't matter. 😂
It took him that long to decide that? No man he's such a liar
@@masterhakk The length of time was apparently trolling Doug Polk. 😂
@masterhakk exactly Dwan is a liar. Look at his body language- he is never jamming there since he gave off so many tells
Dwan made sure that Polk keeps scratching his head in all his videos going forward!😂😂
I agree! Even when watching Doug's video, I didn't undeserved what took Tom so long!
Yes, especially when you're playing 1,000 big blind deep. In this type of game there should be no clock calling but since there is it should be 3-5 minutes to decide and a 2 min extension Countdown if someone calls the clock not 1 minute because playing the biggest game ever with lots of money. In a 1-3 or 2-5 game there should always be a clock because you're playing for chump change, no reason to take 5-10 minutes to make a decision.
@8:08 Dwan said later he only had the clock called on him on the Turn one other time by a fellow pro player
Dwan has already made more then garret did his whole career on HCL. 1 night.
Honestly, I think, this was a well disguised slow roll! We know they don’t like each other! And, the way he did this to Polk waaaas LEGENDARY!
Honestly, I think that’s what it was! He’s not raising, I’m sure he had it set in his mind on the turn what he was doing on the turn and river! He’s one of the best at his craft for a long long time to tank that long on a river he’s not raising!
That was a LEGENDARY hidden “FU 🖕🏼” to Doug! Well done DWAN! Well done, indeed👏👏👏👏👏
I wonder why poker brings out such childish comments from people.
@ lekiamh here’s a childish comment for ya…. “you’re #🖕🏼”
You are 100% right. Just look at Dwan's body language, he is never jamming there, he gave away too much info. He was going to call and was just slowrolling him
Pretty loose flop call with 54, but he actually does have a ton of straight outs because of connectivity with the 2 and the 7. Same chance of hitting a straight as 89 does
Tom Dwan is a master.
He said he was contemplating a shove. Decisions with 1500 plus big blinds are different than a couple hundred BBs.
My God I love Tom Dwan
Hes tilting the best in the world
Awesome, brutal hand. Like a punch in the gut.
dwan is definitely the better live player
I disagree... I think given Durr's background (pre-solver generation, online wizard to THE star of HSP, to playing nosebleeds with filthy rich Chinse businessmen in Macau...), he approaches poker a lot more psychological than GTO/math. Poker has evolved to be more mathematical than feelings and ego, but it shouldn't mean reads aren't a thing anymore. Look back at some of the biggest plays he made on HSP, did he block value? Not really. QT vs AA vs 42? He knew Peter had trips and would fold. The 72 bluff on his heads up challenge? It was just a pure gut feeling that his opponent had him on a monster and would fold. Even here he spent the majority of his tank wondering what Wesley's comment meant about Doug's hand. It's kind of crazy to note that one of the most idolized players ever spent 10mins in the hand and couldn't figure out 76s was impossible, BUT maybe to him it genuinely wasn't that important. Yes 76/K6 *should* be suited, but does it have to be? Doug was playing 40%+ vpip that night. What says Doug can't ever show up with off suit combos? But even then, how often are you getting value vs. running into the stones? In the 3.1M hand against Wesley later he also suspected trips way more than AA/KK. It's a 5bet pot and Durr just insisted QQ was best pre. Later this was proven right as Wesley showed up with A7s (note, A7s, not A5s, not GTO approved) in a 5bet pot against Hank. So I do believe it that maybe in Dwan's mind assigning solver ranges wasn't as important as the human aspects of the game. He also expained that he was waiting for the clock call since he thought Doug would never call clock with a value hand that throws up at a shove (trip 6s). This is something that solvers would never consider, but Durr having played live nosebleeds for 15yrs would. Yes it's sort of ridiculous at first sight how this hand went down, but I don't think this was a slowroll.
The only thing I'd disagree with you on is that in the QT vs AA vs 42 hand, blockers did play a key part in his decision. The fact he has a Ten on a T22 board means there's only one way that BarryG can have 10s full. Barry even explained his own thought process later, and lamented when he was trying to process everything and figure out if Dwan was bluffing, the question he kept asking was "how does he know I don't have 10s full?" He only realized later that the reason was because Dwan had a 10.
yeah I noticed watching live that he messed up the combos of possible hands lol, idk this hand was so strange live. The only possibility I see is that in all the big hands, Dwan was SUPER intrigued by weird live read situations, like Wes' comment pre flop, Dougs turn clock call, Wes still 3betting in the 3.1mil pot after Doug announced he saw his hand, etc. so maybe, Tom just got really lost in his thoughts in this one on the turn/river and tanked forever. Or, it was simply just to silently say fuck you to Doug
how are their no combos of 67?
all 4 suited combos are blocked
Tom explained this, he stated he took so long because he was thinking of jamming over just calling and obv never folding so I don’t think this is that crazy. It’s a very big money sitch. If you watched the later hands that LSG dude tanked super long as well until jamming with his AJ against Polk too.
Bart yapping the whole time is impressive. Tom knew he had it in the bag lol
Dwan even said he was deciding whether to call or raise. Not a nitroll.
This isn’t like Robbie, To Garrett “ I thought you had A high, so you then call with J high..that will always be the worst explanation for not being drunk or high at the table.
Dwan lied, he was never jamming, look at his body language.
Love Polk, but I don't think it was a NIT call(s). Know did Dwan wait almost 6 mins on river & claim he was thinking about raising - no. But hard to tell....money changes the game.
They are a million dollars deep and he’s trying to figure out how to get all the money. I think there is a real decision on whether to 3b or call the turn raise
2 combos of quad 6’s?
One combo, plus credit for 1/3 of the 3 combos of KK being played that way.
At around 13:45 into the video, Bart started to sound like Vizzini from The Princess Bride. “Surely, I cannot choose the cup in front of me.”
“You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is, “Never get involved in a land war in Asia” - but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line”! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!”
This is a really sophisticated breakdown.
What k6 are you talking about? Dwan could beat it with his 7s full. The only possible trouble was 66. KK Wesley eliminated.
there is no way Polk's turn raise is theoretically sound
Both Polk and Dwan are world-class players. So is Bart, did he say it was unsound ? To be balanced, you have to have bluffs in all spots, if Doug gets to the turn with an open ender, that is a perfectly normal hand to bluff with - you have fold equity and if called have cards to catch. also, consider that Doug is splashing it up some because The HCL stream is partial to having loosey-goosey action players and has an aversion to allowing top-notch players to play.
@@ryanjones4150 given stack depth and range disadvantage there are no hands in Doug's range that want to raise turn, piling money in at this SPR just funnels Dwan's range into the nuts
@@eamonnarasaratnam7213 The range disadvantage belongs to Dwan, Doug can have strong hands there that Dwan cannot since his range is more narrow as the pre-flop 3-bettor, thus the need to have some bluffs as well to balance his range. Dwan's strong hands are only trip sevens and kings, the rest of his range consists of one pair hands and air. You are totally wrong.
@@ryanjones4150 lmao
Dwan contemplating a river shove and if he could get called with less vs Doug having KK
you made a lot of great points...love ur videos
"2 combos of quad 6s"😂
Tom thought DP called the clock too quick, I ABSOLUTELY disagree, altho I never played a $1MM pot before
But in dwans defense, he did only just call and not re raise on the river. Right ? So he really did believe he could have been beat right ?
I think Durrrr only called instead of jamming because he wanted Doug to see his hand... to let Doug know he was doing this intentionally. This was about revenge and sticking it to Doug imo. If Durrrr jams, Doug folds and Tom can't twist the needle. Notice that he slowrolled him at the end too. Seems like this was all done just to screw with Doug.
@@marksprinkleyep was a massive slowroll
You was saying there two combos of quad 6s lol ????? Can only ever have 1
Combo of quads
Your numbers are a little off because Tom is eff stack at 881, not Doug's 967.
Doug brought it on himself imo
I foresee a Dwan vs Polk high stakes HU match in the near future…
Nobody cares about HU its so boring.
I thought he was tanking bc he was gonna FOLD
SEEMS CRAZY BUT his reaction was crazy
That's why it was a savage slowroll, Dwan made it seem like he might fold just to mess with Doug
This was a fold on the flop.
Analytical deductive powers of durr dissecting doug polks game like aVulcan playing 3D chess.
Tom thought Polk had Pocket kings or Quad 6s......
“I don’t know what he was actually thinking about there”
…Vegas and The Mirage
I was wondering when your tape was running while you missed it. Look back on the tape.
Would we ever see mr. Bart Hanson himself on a streamed game this big in the future???
Doug is great, what a good ambassador for poker. Took the L like a champ and even smiles and makes Wes feel ok after the hand.
Million dollar pot with two world class players. I can’t believe Dwan gets second guessed by almost everybody. He punishes other players, maybe he was slow because he was sniffing glue in the parking lot
When you play enough poker online and you get constantly hammered with Kk or 66 in this positions, it leaves scars. Only amateurs and rec player can say this is "always a shove".
Both the big hands that Tom won, these 2 guys saw each other's hands
I think it had nothing to do with Wesley being shown his hand. I think Doug's mistake was subconsciously advertising to the table on his mediocre hole cards by stating "I played a big pot with that once" meaning it most likely wasn't a substantial holding type of hands. When I was watching this live I thought for certain Tom picked up on that however I didn't think he would tank that hard. Only hands beating him was KK and seeing as he didn't over bet the river I find that story unlikely and a jam on the river with 66 would've certainly happened. I could also see the cards but the playing and betting narrowed it a lot. Doug didn't 4 bet, which, why would he? But I think if he had maybe kings would've been in the realm of possibilities though regardless I think in the end Tom was calling 100% regardless, he was only tanking just simply looking for a sign that would reveal more information. There was no other skill other than angling in that specific situation..
And ole Doug just acts like, oh well, deal em up! Great atitude.