Phobos lieutenant adds a post-shooting Move to his led unit - with Infiltrators already having Heavy on their Boltguns they would get the +1 to Wound in this, and could be VERY fun and interesting.....
Same with the instigator bolt carbine on the eliminator sergeant. I think building a anvil army out of phobos armor and heavy support might work quite well. Having an army that infiltrates in front of the enemy just to completely stands still in the movement phase and then does all its movement in the shooting and fight phase, will probably throw of most opponents and disable overwatch outside of charges.
Deepstrike counts as moving and the phobos lieutenant squad would need to stay stationary - hope an enemy unit is "eligible to be shot" within 24" get the buff than move. So you still only move 6" and your opponents unit has to be an eligible target
The only way it actually works is the jank move - shoot - move into an impulsor - the impulsor counts as not moving - shoot through the firing deck. This is the only way it really works
I rather like this detachment. It's definitely not the best from a competitive standpoint, due to the movement issues. But for Crusade, or maybe a themed Apocalypse game where the Imperium has to hold the line against a bajillion Orks or Nids? Yes please. It doesn't have to be competitive to still be very fun and fluffy
I played it day one and the firepower was unbelievable. Unfortunately I was playing 1K and did not have space for any mobile action units. I lost quite badly in points. In terms of board presence, I barely lost any models while taking quite a few kills.
That's gonna be the key. You need a healthy mix of movement troops and good positioning for your Gunlines. You can take good advantage of this rule, but like the man said you can't go 2k points of nothing but stationary troops. You gotta leapfrog those units up the board.
Mostly the Salamanders, Ultras, and Iron Hands. I'll probably be playing a ton of vanguard but I know its not strong since it trades any real damage enhancements and strats for gimmicks and movement.
@@tanaka601 I find they look better if you do a little converting - change the right shoulder so that there's a larger phobos shoulder pad on it. Makes the models more like standard marine units, and also makes them less lopsided.
Librarian Dreadnought for Blood Angels and a librarian in Phobos armor with the eliminators are some of the best units for me in this detachment. I use a lot of heavy intercessors and sternguard vets, Libby dread throws my units to where they need to go and keeps them on the objective.
This detachment will dominate in casual games where people don’t use enough terrain. It will struggle to be useful for people who play with to tournament terrain.
Used this detachment yesterday, was surprised how powerful it can be. Battle drill recall for critical hits on 5+ and sustained hits for 1cp combined with no threat to great, when used on sternguard is amazing. No threat to great can be used for free if you have a captain so it's a one CP combo.
This is the one I'm the most hesitantly hopeful about. The two detachments I was most interested in were the veteran one and this one, and as we all known, the veteran detachment turned out to be a real steaming pile of boring. So I hope this one is bearable to play on the tabletop, because the names and the vibe are just off the charts perfect for me. My only problem is that, once again, because MY life is suffering, GW pulled the fucking "here's your fluffy thematic limitation that makes you suck!" dial where half of the army demands you simply DO NOT MOVE. I really don't anticipate that being easy to work around, and I hope that it still just _feels good_ to play. But seriously, it's so random how sometimes GW cranks that dial hard and demands you play exactly the way they want, and sometimes armies get to have whatever they want AND good rules while being free to do whatever because who knows why. Heavy Intercessors are my favorite unit in the whole codex, and while I know it wouldn't be optimal or possibly even good, I'm dying to run Anvil Siege Force with a full roster of six Heavy Intercessors (at least four, to take advantage of them being Battleline, but I'd LOVE to have the full six). I'm even tempted to take an Inquisitor character just to add another character that can lead them!
I always wanted to combine phobos units, gravis units and backfield firepower. Infiltrators with phobos librarian hold midfield when one squad of my 20 haevy intercessors goes as fast as they can to encamp on that objective. All of ths reinforced by long range fiepower and some mele thret like brutalis and terminators.
Great video :) will be interesting to see if there are any forward unit or transport setups that can reliably force opponents to play into the more static playstyle.
I've played against the anvil siege force with Renegade Admech; dawn of war deployment, vital grounds primary, delayed reserves mission rules, 1000 points, and I went second. And from what I can tell (based on one game mind you) if you want to play the anvil Siege force well you need your force to be able to help each other more. You need to force the situation, force the enemy to come to you otherwise your opponent will run circles around you. He can pick and choose where he wants to fight at all times, which is what happened. Your guys are slow (if you bring the heavy gravis guys), when your vehicles are destroyed by neutron lasers and damage from rad bombardment you could have a hard time slogging across the board, and if you give up shooting for advancing which is what happened, then your much needed firepower may not be available when you need it, and his brute Redemptor was never going to catch my cavalry. His center was his weakest point. The Anvil Siege guy had his heavy guys on the wings; Heavy intercessors eradicators and captain on the left and heavy intercessors gladiator tank and brute redemptor on the right, and he had a squad of intercessor guys with a lieutenant in the center. His heavy guys on the wings were too far apart to help the center guys kill the 6 remaining vanguards and marshal before they got shot and charged and lost 1 OC to rad saturation. The lieutenant tried to fallback and shoot in his next turn and received vengeful fallout. And his left wing while it wiped out the infiltrators and rangers like they were nothing they couldn't quite crack open the armor of the robots. They got moved blocked by big robots and a single remaining heavy servitor, and his eradicators were killed off in the first turn. And his vehicle and dread on the right wing got picked apart by the neutron lasers, while the surviving 4 cavalry guys danced around them and tormented the heavy intercessors. It's also important to note that the guy playing the Anvil Siege force wanted to take it to a tournament and this was my first time playing the Admech 10th edition, so he wasn't inexperienced with the game, maybe just not used to this type of detachment. The lesson to be learned is don't spread out too thin! Support your wings with overlapping firepower! And force the issue!
I've always wondered why while commenting on this force, no one seems to remember that suppressors are a thing: Mobility while you need it, and light auto cannon fire with the heavy keyword. If you're playing on a standard table, getting plunging fire may be a thing.
I'm using this detachment for my all phobos Raptor army. Seems appropriate for a chapter of snipers and the Vanguard detachment is a little underwhelming IMO and the only unit that really suffers is suppressors and even then only some of the time but the boost to Infiltrators and Eliminators more than makes up for it.
I think people are putting too much emphasis on the detachment rule. Not every unit needs to benefit from it every turn, realistically the only units you would expect to use it on for the entire game would be static indirect fire units, it’s just an added bonus for everyone else when it comes up. Movement is key to controlling objectives and objectives win games. Units which can have out of sequence movement are also strong for this detachment, mainly some Phobos units.
If thats the case then Raven Guard would do this job much better than Imperial Fist as they have a battle tactic stratagem that is literally this detachment if not better. While your entire army still benefit from -1 to hit and always gets cover save.
But races like tau always use there detachment rules without even trying. For instance tau just have to have another unit have line of site on the person there shooting. And chaos just do self harm when they are about to shoot. Space Marine detachments have conditions to fill that affect placestyle greatly. Anvil stay still, ironstorm play vechile heavy, vangaurd be stealthy, slamanders be upclose and with flamers. Gladiuos are once per game moves :/
Also, ive just checked. Out of sequences and out of phase unit dont get to benefit from any special rule at all. Even if it does, the Heavy keyword requires you to be stationary. You didnt have a movement phase in your opponent turn so this detachment is pretty worthless
The main work arounds are the fallback unto an objective or DZ to get stationary next turn OR you use impulsors and move shoot move into one and than firing deck out of it.
Sternguard are going to do pretty well in here too. Giving them Sustained Hits and the bonus to wound is going to ensure that even their non-DW hits go through. I dunno, thematically they fit well. They probably don't get the most from the detachment, but that also means moving them around isn't the end of the world.
Eliminators get very interesting, you can snipe out characters and you get a bonus to wound with potential devastating wounds on 6. There arent many characters that survive getting 9 wounds in 1 go.
My buddy and I came up with a fun 2k list for this detachment that we want to see done. 3 full 10 squads of heavy intercessors (one lead by a gravis captain), 3 ballistus dreads, 3 eliminator squads (1 lead by a phobos librarian with bolt rifles and 2 with las fusils), and a repulsor with 10 hellblasters and Lieutenant. You advance your heavy intercessors onto points and sit there with eliminator/ballistus backup in each of the firing lanes, while the repulsor and hellblasters go to town on key targets. Between the ballistus dreads and the repulsor you have decent anti armor, and your heavy intercessor squads are doing some work while getting the extra damage reduction if they're sitting on points. Will probably be best to go first. The phobos librarian lead eliminator squad will be free to either pick off something key or do objectives, as will the other eliminators depending on battle round.
I painted up my lads as IF successors so probably biased but I think this detachment is stealth-good. It wont be as easy to play compared to conventionally strong armies but I think for the ppl willing to log the hours it could prove to have great dividends. One thing I don't hear ppl talking about is stacking the +1 wounds from Hvy with the further +1 from the SS thunderstrike against monsters/vehicles. This is a really cheeky way to suddenly punch WAAAYYY up even with just 10 block of Hvy ints. Then really turn on the hose with Bolter Drill. It won't do too much to heavy vehicles on its own but it's sure to give your opponent a suprise against Sub T10 vehicles.
+1 to Wound doesn't double up when you have two sources, similar to how two sources of +1 to Hit doesn't become a +2 to hit, just FYI. Granted the Storm Speeder can help with being able to move and get +1 to Wound
@@BigBoi237 so is AP the only thing that stacks? I know identical rules(a la sustained) don't normally add up but I figured that was the case if it was only from a single source/method.
Found it, welp I guess I learned something today. I guess despite being a simpler game theres still things that fall through the gaps of my understanding even now. Still good as you said to improve the wound whilst on-the-move. Throw in everyone's favorite combi-wep Lt. For re-roll 1s or have a Cpt. pop 'No threat too great is probably as good as it gets then.
Proteus killteams seem like they'd love these rules with their potential for 7 heavy weapons in a single squad (4 dw frag cannons/infernus heavy bolters + 3 cyclone missile launchers/assault cannons/plasma cannons)
Suppressors look fun now, 1+ to hit as heavy, +1 to wound, as in anvil detachment, Play the battle drill stratagem, sustained hits on a 5+ Plus could have oath of moment running to for re roll all hits! 😮👋
Auspex, I feel like you missed a combo with blood angels where a unit can remain stationary then get wings of sang from a Lib Dready, plus getting actual melee marines (death company) as your mid line damage dealers over rank and file bladeguard / termi's
In clubs and casual game nights / settings, this detatchment rocks! Its fun and will seriosuly take your apponant by suprise!! However, on top tables in any competetive setting, this detatchment is a death sentence. As soon as you learn to pre-measure, its over. Mobility isnt just strong in comp warhammer, its KEY. "Im just gonna stand 25 inches away and you either dont shoot or dont get an army rule. Sorry bro."
Ah My Freedom; Come Join Us In freedom We Are Stronger The Freedom Shall Not Faulter Sacrificed to The Alter My Favorite Actual Armored Space Marine Infantry Very Vibe From what I Hear It Doesn’t Quite Exemplify The Fists and-or Tactical Unyielding Siege-Assault Superiority Style Atleast Somewhat There though
definitely will make a old school Dark Angels shooting force with this one, and I mostly play against people who zerg/plague rush me, so... I guess i'll just shoot them to oblivion and use terminators and the Lion ( who wants you to charge him anyway) to hold the midfield
Honestly I’d rather run as dark angels azrael for sushi1 and all that seems better You can still use this detatchment but just feels there’s better options
Ok. Listen. It's not OK, but playing tons of indirect fire with this could be REALLY strong. Desolation squads especially feel INCREDIBLY strong on mid game objectives. But the repulsor, and whirlwind are already good. Desolators bouncing in and out of Repulsors is SO powerful, hitting opponents hidden units to offset the low mobility. Maybe I'm a terrible person, but this is how I would build the core of this force.
Issues I can see with this is: 1: they don't have heavy on their castellan launchers. Only the bazooka. 2: a unit is considered to have moved if they disembark from a transport. Meaning they don't get +1 to hit or wound.
@@XealotCoils yes, and with the Repulsor in the way to body block as well I would expect you will have the turn to stay stationary, and on a point. It's an all in for these units, leaving the rest of your army to be able to be more mobile and general purpose.
@@StarkMaximum Put Heavy Intercessors on an objective to hold it. Anything coming near gets shot at with hitting on 2+ and with +1 to wound. And they aren't easy to shift.
@@XHobbiesPrime That's what I'm thinking, Heavy Intercessors as my go-to objective holders. I figure so long as I build the rest of the army to support their stoic march I can make it work.
I just started playing this against friends. Heavy Intercessors are very nice. Eliminators are insane. +1 to hit and wound on las fusils is really disgusting.
@olegreg4787 as a new player these out of sequence interactions are not intuitive. I can only assume that things like rapid fire, dev wounds, sustained hits etc would apply? So why not heavy? Heavy asks that you "haven't moved this turn", which you won't have. The return fire letting you benefit from heavy also seems on theme for the detachment. Not saying you are wrong, but it's really unclear to me.
@@Xander101Heavy specifically states "this turn" when making an attack, as long as you didn't move your unit from abilities in your opponents turn (deepstrike and such), return fires from strats, invictors, ATVs, and dying hellblasters will gain heavy!
The only Detachment that it is worth using Desos in. Castelan hitting on 2's and The Krak rocket with a +1 to wound since it has heavy can be a pretty significant boost in firepower. Especially with Battle drill recall. Really dont know why you didnt put them in the top 3 units to use in this detachment right aftwr Hellblasters and Heavy Intercessors !
Because they're 200 points and as squishy as a regular marine. If they get seen, they WILL die. If you're finding you're making the points back, please share us your stories
Imo they should swap that "Revenge fire" to plain "Counts as stationary". The idea of SMs lashing at some poor fool dropping one of em just feels wrong. So basically you get the best results from guns that land a bucketload of hits? Should do some math with numbers with that +1 to wound to see where the best results are, big damage or massive hits.
The damage boost is significant but it's often not going to get used because of needing to move units - overall, I don't think this detachment is particularly good
I do like this detachment, I just don't think I have enough shooting units to make it worth taking. It would've been great if there was at least something that anticipates melee because something is going to get charged. It's not particularly balanced. But I guess that's the point! 😅
@@andrewbakescakes9684 IF aren't boring by any stretch. It's just no one wants to write them. They'd rather write about the BTs. The culture and history of the IF is very rich, and they're very tactically flexible.
I'm of the opinion scouts can be placed in these locations to force your opponent into your firing lines. Until then a desolation squad can hammer them if they are hiding.
@@tyhar7493 why wouldn't they just steamroll over the scouts? They're not exactly tough. And Desolation marines are expensive at 200 pts for 5 guys. Not to mention that there will be more units who can ignore deepstrike rules, like Inceptors, which mince marines. IMO it's just not a good detachment. It requires you to be way more skillful and have a fairly bulletproof list than your opponent ever needs to be.
Hellblaster and devas squad never good in this detachment both of them need to move to have good positions all the time and both of them dead so quickly in 1 round :v if you want this detachment work well better think about dreadnought , tank and heavy intercessor
Yea it's all good on paper. But with a proper board and terrain I think people's expectations will have to be somewhat modified. I don't think it's bad by any stretch but maybe not a good as some will expect.
I’m running Gladius for mine. The way they’re played in DoW, with a wide variety of units being deployed means I feel the tactical flexibility of the Gladius detachment fits them pretty well
Anvil is cool and all but I think ironhead is just broken 😂. Lethal hits on vehicles and walkers is not fair imo. So I’m gonna abuse it while I can 😂. You can fit the entire armored force of 1k or 2k list around the techmarine if you deploy right. Not to mention negating a big dmg hit ONCE PER PHASE from a 2nd techmarine. Even more effective if you’re DA and just deploy a dark shroud with it.
So , your idea is to stand, and wait that your opponent is goin to let you kill him while you not-moving? This is crazy and is never gonna happen . Statistics arent important. Important is possibility to use a weapon.
OTHER DETACHMENT REVIEWS HERE:
Vanguard Spearhead - th-cam.com/video/vdT9PK_jXm8/w-d-xo.html
First Company - th-cam.com/video/RQiNWV3KtIM/w-d-xo.html
Firestorm Assault Force - th-cam.com/video/pKJ52r41KPw/w-d-xo.html
Anvil Siege Force - th-cam.com/video/PcSZrQBgIh4/w-d-xo.html
Ironstorm Spearhead - th-cam.com/video/eoC1U3h6W_s/w-d-xo.html
Whatever the difficulties, I'm driven to make this detachment work with my Fists.
Hell yeah brother
Curious to how you've been doing to make it work, I've been having a tough time and wonder if you've had better luck?
@commissarfrost2015 Update: It's still rough.
2x Ballistus
1x Redemptor Dread w/ macro plasma, gatling cannon, fragstorm grenade
1x10 Heavy Intercessors w/ 2 Heavy bolter
2x3 Inceptor w/bolt pistol option
1x Eliminators w/ instigator bolt carbine
1x phobos librarian
1x6 Eradicator squad w/ 2 multi-melta
1x Apothecary Biologis w/ stoic defender
1x Captain in Gravis w/power fist and relic blade
1x6 Agressor Squad w/ boltstorm gauntlets
1x Land Raider w/ all the add-ons
Phobos lieutenant adds a post-shooting Move to his led unit - with Infiltrators already having Heavy on their Boltguns they would get the +1 to Wound in this, and could be VERY fun and interesting.....
Same with the instigator bolt carbine on the eliminator sergeant. I think building a anvil army out of phobos armor and heavy support might work quite well. Having an army that infiltrates in front of the enemy just to completely stands still in the movement phase and then does all its movement in the shooting and fight phase, will probably throw of most opponents and disable overwatch outside of charges.
Suppressors are low-key goats in this detachment, 3 attacks at str 8 with +1 to wound ain't bad. Native deep strike and a native -1 to wound ability.
Deepstrike counts as moving and the phobos lieutenant squad would need to stay stationary - hope an enemy unit is "eligible to be shot" within 24" get the buff than move. So you still only move 6" and your opponents unit has to be an eligible target
@@cgpoly3419Same thing I said about phobos lieutenant
The only way it actually works is the jank move - shoot - move into an impulsor - the impulsor counts as not moving - shoot through the firing deck.
This is the only way it really works
I rather like this detachment. It's definitely not the best from a competitive standpoint, due to the movement issues. But for Crusade, or maybe a themed Apocalypse game where the Imperium has to hold the line against a bajillion Orks or Nids? Yes please. It doesn't have to be competitive to still be very fun and fluffy
Oh, it is very good for taking out a bunch of Nids coming at it.
I played it day one and the firepower was unbelievable. Unfortunately I was playing 1K and did not have space for any mobile action units. I lost quite badly in points. In terms of board presence, I barely lost any models while taking quite a few kills.
That's gonna be the key. You need a healthy mix of movement troops and good positioning for your Gunlines. You can take good advantage of this rule, but like the man said you can't go 2k points of nothing but stationary troops. You gotta leapfrog those units up the board.
All this firepower just to get your characters sniped 36 inches away by a 10 foot tech obsessed weirdo on stilts
Wear your helmet lads !
@@mrward6510helmet didn’t help the first Carmine in Gears of War
ROFL
ROFL'd so hard my wife thinks I've gone crazy 😂😂😂
@@giantninja9173 Ohhh in the feels 😭
Several of these new marine detachments are very strong! I like what they've done with them. Thanks for making this video!
Mostly the Salamanders, Ultras, and Iron Hands. I'll probably be playing a ton of vanguard but I know its not strong since it trades any real damage enhancements and strats for gimmicks and movement.
Yay! Starting the morning with some Auspex and a big cup of coffee, fantastic!
Perfect for all the phobos and Gravis I've accumulated recently
It makes for a really good mixed Phobos/Gravis list I think.
I think people are sleeping on infiltrators here. A 10 man unit infiltrating onto the center objective can just camp and get +1 to wound
why do you want 10?
@@tom4115 Probably because it's going to get shot to pieces.
Phobos is an aesthetic cosmic horror in my opinion, better naked than phobos.
@tanaka601 it's tacticool
@@tanaka601 I find they look better if you do a little converting - change the right shoulder so that there's a larger phobos shoulder pad on it. Makes the models more like standard marine units, and also makes them less lopsided.
I was playing shooty Blood Angels in 9th, I'mma keep playing shooty Blood Angels in 10th
now THIS is my type of detachment
Fists are back, baby! Wooo!
Librarian Dreadnought for Blood Angels and a librarian in Phobos armor with the eliminators are some of the best units for me in this detachment. I use a lot of heavy intercessors and sternguard vets, Libby dread throws my units to where they need to go and keeps them on the objective.
This detachment will dominate in casual games where people don’t use enough terrain. It will struggle to be useful for people who play with to tournament terrain.
Used this detachment yesterday, was surprised how powerful it can be. Battle drill recall for critical hits on 5+ and sustained hits for 1cp combined with no threat to great, when used on sternguard is amazing. No threat to great can be used for free if you have a captain so it's a one CP combo.
This is the one I'm the most hesitantly hopeful about. The two detachments I was most interested in were the veteran one and this one, and as we all known, the veteran detachment turned out to be a real steaming pile of boring. So I hope this one is bearable to play on the tabletop, because the names and the vibe are just off the charts perfect for me. My only problem is that, once again, because MY life is suffering, GW pulled the fucking "here's your fluffy thematic limitation that makes you suck!" dial where half of the army demands you simply DO NOT MOVE. I really don't anticipate that being easy to work around, and I hope that it still just _feels good_ to play. But seriously, it's so random how sometimes GW cranks that dial hard and demands you play exactly the way they want, and sometimes armies get to have whatever they want AND good rules while being free to do whatever because who knows why.
Heavy Intercessors are my favorite unit in the whole codex, and while I know it wouldn't be optimal or possibly even good, I'm dying to run Anvil Siege Force with a full roster of six Heavy Intercessors (at least four, to take advantage of them being Battleline, but I'd LOVE to have the full six). I'm even tempted to take an Inquisitor character just to add another character that can lead them!
I always wanted to combine phobos units, gravis units and backfield firepower.
Infiltrators with phobos librarian hold midfield when one squad of my 20 haevy intercessors goes as fast as they can to encamp on that objective. All of ths reinforced by long range fiepower and some mele thret like brutalis and terminators.
Squad of 20 heavy intercessors? Can you do that
@@klowbo2034they are painted and based all 20
@@JedrzuGaming but you have to run them as two ten man squads
Great video :) will be interesting to see if there are any forward unit or transport setups that can reliably force opponents to play into the more static playstyle.
I've played against the anvil siege force with Renegade Admech; dawn of war deployment, vital grounds primary, delayed reserves mission rules, 1000 points, and I went second. And from what I can tell (based on one game mind you) if you want to play the anvil Siege force well you need your force to be able to help each other more. You need to force the situation, force the enemy to come to you otherwise your opponent will run circles around you. He can pick and choose where he wants to fight at all times, which is what happened. Your guys are slow (if you bring the heavy gravis guys), when your vehicles are destroyed by neutron lasers and damage from rad bombardment you could have a hard time slogging across the board, and if you give up shooting for advancing which is what happened, then your much needed firepower may not be available when you need it, and his brute Redemptor was never going to catch my cavalry. His center was his weakest point. The Anvil Siege guy had his heavy guys on the wings; Heavy intercessors eradicators and captain on the left and heavy intercessors gladiator tank and brute redemptor on the right, and he had a squad of intercessor guys with a lieutenant in the center. His heavy guys on the wings were too far apart to help the center guys kill the 6 remaining vanguards and marshal before they got shot and charged and lost 1 OC to rad saturation. The lieutenant tried to fallback and shoot in his next turn and received vengeful fallout.
And his left wing while it wiped out the infiltrators and rangers like they were nothing they couldn't quite crack open the armor of the robots. They got moved blocked by big robots and a single remaining heavy servitor, and his eradicators were killed off in the first turn.
And his vehicle and dread on the right wing got picked apart by the neutron lasers, while the surviving 4 cavalry guys danced around them and tormented the heavy intercessors.
It's also important to note that the guy playing the Anvil Siege force wanted to take it to a tournament and this was my first time playing the Admech 10th edition, so he wasn't inexperienced with the game, maybe just not used to this type of detachment.
The lesson to be learned is don't spread out too thin! Support your wings with overlapping firepower! And force the issue!
I've always wondered why while commenting on this force, no one seems to remember that suppressors are a thing: Mobility while you need it, and light auto cannon fire with the heavy keyword. If you're playing on a standard table, getting plunging fire may be a thing.
I'm using this detachment for my all phobos Raptor army. Seems appropriate for a chapter of snipers and the Vanguard detachment is a little underwhelming IMO and the only unit that really suffers is suppressors and even then only some of the time but the boost to Infiltrators and Eliminators more than makes up for it.
I think people are putting too much emphasis on the detachment rule. Not every unit needs to benefit from it every turn, realistically the only units you would expect to use it on for the entire game would be static indirect fire units, it’s just an added bonus for everyone else when it comes up.
Movement is key to controlling objectives and objectives win games. Units which can have out of sequence movement are also strong for this detachment, mainly some Phobos units.
If thats the case then Raven Guard would do this job much better than Imperial Fist as they have a battle tactic stratagem that is literally this detachment if not better.
While your entire army still benefit from -1 to hit and always gets cover save.
But races like tau always use there detachment rules without even trying. For instance tau just have to have another unit have line of site on the person there shooting. And chaos just do self harm when they are about to shoot. Space Marine detachments have conditions to fill that affect placestyle greatly. Anvil stay still, ironstorm play vechile heavy, vangaurd be stealthy, slamanders be upclose and with flamers. Gladiuos are once per game moves :/
Also, ive just checked. Out of sequences and out of phase unit dont get to benefit from any special rule at all.
Even if it does, the Heavy keyword requires you to be stationary. You didnt have a movement phase in your opponent turn so this detachment is pretty worthless
The main work arounds are the fallback unto an objective or DZ to get stationary next turn OR you use impulsors and move shoot move into one and than firing deck out of it.
Fall back with the strat*
GW has some devastator stock to shift before they upgrade the models.
Sternguard are going to do pretty well in here too. Giving them Sustained Hits and the bonus to wound is going to ensure that even their non-DW hits go through. I dunno, thematically they fit well. They probably don't get the most from the detachment, but that also means moving them around isn't the end of the world.
How about revisiting last year's SM Christmas boxes and seeing how the stack up with rhe new codex and detachments?
Eliminators get very interesting, you can snipe out characters and you get a bonus to wound with potential devastating wounds on 6. There arent many characters that survive getting 9 wounds in 1 go.
My buddy and I came up with a fun 2k list for this detachment that we want to see done. 3 full 10 squads of heavy intercessors (one lead by a gravis captain), 3 ballistus dreads, 3 eliminator squads (1 lead by a phobos librarian with bolt rifles and 2 with las fusils), and a repulsor with 10 hellblasters and Lieutenant. You advance your heavy intercessors onto points and sit there with eliminator/ballistus backup in each of the firing lanes, while the repulsor and hellblasters go to town on key targets. Between the ballistus dreads and the repulsor you have decent anti armor, and your heavy intercessor squads are doing some work while getting the extra damage reduction if they're sitting on points. Will probably be best to go first. The phobos librarian lead eliminator squad will be free to either pick off something key or do objectives, as will the other eliminators depending on battle round.
I painted up my lads as IF successors so probably biased but I think this detachment is stealth-good. It wont be as easy to play compared to conventionally strong armies but I think for the ppl willing to log the hours it could prove to have great dividends. One thing I don't hear ppl talking about is stacking the +1 wounds from Hvy with the further +1 from the SS thunderstrike against monsters/vehicles. This is a really cheeky way to suddenly punch WAAAYYY up even with just 10 block of Hvy ints. Then really turn on the hose with Bolter Drill. It won't do too much to heavy vehicles on its own but it's sure to give your opponent a suprise against Sub T10 vehicles.
+1 to Wound doesn't double up when you have two sources, similar to how two sources of +1 to Hit doesn't become a +2 to hit, just FYI. Granted the Storm Speeder can help with being able to move and get +1 to Wound
@@BigBoi237 so is AP the only thing that stacks? I know identical rules(a la sustained) don't normally add up but I figured that was the case if it was only from a single source/method.
Found it, welp I guess I learned something today. I guess despite being a simpler game theres still things that fall through the gaps of my understanding even now. Still good as you said to improve the wound whilst on-the-move. Throw in everyone's favorite combi-wep Lt. For re-roll 1s or have a Cpt. pop 'No threat too great is probably as good as it gets then.
I for one can't wait to try out a triple hammer bunker power hour!
Proteus killteams seem like they'd love these rules with their potential for 7 heavy weapons in a single squad (4 dw frag cannons/infernus heavy bolters + 3 cyclone missile launchers/assault cannons/plasma cannons)
Suppressors look fun now, 1+ to hit as heavy, +1 to wound, as in anvil detachment, Play the battle drill stratagem, sustained hits on a 5+
Plus could have oath of moment running to for re roll all hits! 😮👋
I'm Missing the plasmacannon in the devastators Datasheet
look harder. right below the multimelta
After suffering through 9th, this makes me happy
Auspex, I feel like you missed a combo with blood angels where a unit can remain stationary then get wings of sang from a Lib Dready, plus getting actual melee marines (death company) as your mid line damage dealers over rank and file bladeguard / termi's
In clubs and casual game nights / settings, this detatchment rocks! Its fun and will seriosuly take your apponant by suprise!! However, on top tables in any competetive setting, this detatchment is a death sentence. As soon as you learn to pre-measure, its over. Mobility isnt just strong in comp warhammer, its KEY.
"Im just gonna stand 25 inches away and you either dont shoot or dont get an army rule. Sorry bro."
Ah
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My Favorite Actual Armored Space Marine Infantry
Very Vibe
From what I Hear It Doesn’t Quite Exemplify The Fists and-or Tactical Unyielding Siege-Assault Superiority Style
Atleast Somewhat There though
definitely will make a old school Dark Angels shooting force with this one, and I mostly play against people who zerg/plague rush me, so... I guess i'll just shoot them to oblivion and use terminators and the Lion ( who wants you to charge him anyway) to hold the midfield
I'll just keep my old oath of moment
Just played a game against it.
I hate anvil siege force, I hate anvil siege force, I HATE ANVIL SIEGE FORCE
Stoic defender only grants a FNP while the unit is within range of an objective you control
Honestly I’d rather run as dark angels azrael for sushi1 and all that seems better
You can still use this detatchment but just feels there’s better options
New meta of servo turrets and hammerfall bunker? XD
Does this mean the Hammerfall bunker gets heavy n +1 to hit n always +1 to wound??? Sneaky good pick??
Ok. Listen. It's not OK, but playing tons of indirect fire with this could be REALLY strong. Desolation squads especially feel INCREDIBLY strong on mid game objectives. But the repulsor, and whirlwind are already good. Desolators bouncing in and out of Repulsors is SO powerful, hitting opponents hidden units to offset the low mobility. Maybe I'm a terrible person, but this is how I would build the core of this force.
Issues I can see with this is:
1: they don't have heavy on their castellan launchers. Only the bazooka.
2: a unit is considered to have moved if they disembark from a transport. Meaning they don't get +1 to hit or wound.
@@XealotCoils yes, and with the Repulsor in the way to body block as well I would expect you will have the turn to stay stationary, and on a point. It's an all in for these units, leaving the rest of your army to be able to be more mobile and general purpose.
@@colbybastian17 it'll be interesting to see how it goes. But would you.move the repulsor out of the way so they can shoot their rockets or?
@@XealotCoils if needed, or if there's better targets for them with LoS, but honestly having its own indirect working is also worthwhile.
I'm very excited because I think this detachment could put Heavy Intercessors over the top.
I'm excited to hear that. They're my favorite units in the whole codex.
@@StarkMaximum Put Heavy Intercessors on an objective to hold it. Anything coming near gets shot at with hitting on 2+ and with +1 to wound. And they aren't easy to shift.
@@XHobbiesPrime That's what I'm thinking, Heavy Intercessors as my go-to objective holders. I figure so long as I build the rest of the army to support their stoic march I can make it work.
I just started playing this against friends. Heavy Intercessors are very nice. Eliminators are insane. +1 to hit and wound on las fusils is really disgusting.
I have a Greenwing list with just meme levels of plasma and I'm stuck between this and the transport one. Neither helps 12 inceptors really...
I someone found a way to get a damage 14 thunder hammer from 9th edition using a salamanders smash captain
Question: if I use hail of vengeance do I get the benefit of heavy? Or does it depend on whether I moved during my turn?
I don’t believe so since it’s an out of phase action.
@olegreg4787 as a new player these out of sequence interactions are not intuitive. I can only assume that things like rapid fire, dev wounds, sustained hits etc would apply? So why not heavy? Heavy asks that you "haven't moved this turn", which you won't have. The return fire letting you benefit from heavy also seems on theme for the detachment.
Not saying you are wrong, but it's really unclear to me.
@@Xander101Heavy specifically states "this turn" when making an attack, as long as you didn't move your unit from abilities in your opponents turn (deepstrike and such), return fires from strats, invictors, ATVs, and dying hellblasters will gain heavy!
@@PryoBubbles good to know! That makes sense thank you
The only Detachment that it is worth using Desos in. Castelan hitting on 2's and The Krak rocket with a +1 to wound since it has heavy can be a pretty significant boost in firepower. Especially with Battle drill recall. Really dont know why you didnt put them in the top 3 units to use in this detachment right aftwr Hellblasters and Heavy Intercessors !
Because they're 200 points and as squishy as a regular marine. If they get seen, they WILL die.
If you're finding you're making the points back, please share us your stories
Falchion in Anvil😁
Surely Fleet Commander didn’t need the 3+ roll to work given it’s once a game… 🤦🏼♂️
Imo they should swap that "Revenge fire" to plain "Counts as stationary".
The idea of SMs lashing at some poor fool dropping one of em just feels wrong.
So basically you get the best results from guns that land a bucketload of hits?
Should do some math with numbers with that +1 to wound to see where the best results are, big damage or massive hits.
What's this? Oh, it's rule, which i will use to make my IW more like IW. Just need to get more HH vehicles.
So I have the free pdf but it only has gladius task force. Is there a pdf with this detachment?
Any chance of fitting in Tor Garadon to fbe list at the end
The damage boost is significant but it's often not going to get used because of needing to move units - overall, I don't think this detachment is particularly good
No one can stop me playing Legend Units, even GW.
- Sg. Telion (Warlord) + 10x Sniper Scouts (1x Missile Launcher)
- Phobos Captain (Fleet Commander) + 10x Sniper Scouts (1x Missile Launcher)
- 10x Sniper Scouts (1x Missile Launcher)
- 3x3 Eliminator (3x Las Fusil) + Phobos Librarian (One with Stoic Defender)
- 3x5 Infiltrators (Was a surprise for me, but they do have Heavy)
- 2x1 Primaris Techmarine
- 3x1 Whirlwind
- Callidus Assassin
Banana marines
lets change the meta every 2nd day
How annoying would it be to play around a list built up on indirect fire with his
I do like this detachment, I just don't think I have enough shooting units to make it worth taking. It would've been great if there was at least something that anticipates melee because something is going to get charged. It's not particularly balanced. But I guess that's the point! 😅
Should be Anvil Fortification Force but whatever
Enormous firepower but you give your opponent keys to the board.
In classic Imperial Fist faction. Masters of unfun base-camping and weaponizing boringness.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 IF aren't boring by any stretch. It's just no one wants to write them. They'd rather write about the BTs.
The culture and history of the IF is very rich, and they're very tactically flexible.
I'm of the opinion scouts can be placed in these locations to force your opponent into your firing lines. Until then a desolation squad can hammer them if they are hiding.
@@tyhar7493 why wouldn't they just steamroll over the scouts? They're not exactly tough.
And Desolation marines are expensive at 200 pts for 5 guys. Not to mention that there will be more units who can ignore deepstrike rules, like Inceptors, which mince marines.
IMO it's just not a good detachment. It requires you to be way more skillful and have a fairly bulletproof list than your opponent ever needs to be.
@@XealotCoils Just... take Inceptors?
Hellblaster and devas squad never good in this detachment both of them need to move to have good positions all the time and both of them dead so quickly in 1 round :v if you want this detachment work well better think about dreadnought , tank and heavy intercessor
First after 10 years 🥳
Good Man
This detachment is gonna be baaaaad. Unless its planet bowling ball but thats about it.
Supressors
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On paper this sounds fun, but in practice I don't think so. Your opponent gets to choose all the objectives and which squads will die both sides.
Yea it's all good on paper. But with a proper board and terrain I think people's expectations will have to be somewhat modified. I don't think it's bad by any stretch but maybe not a good as some will expect.
Anvil siege, vanguard spear, and gladius would be the styles Blood Raven would use. They were never very vehicle heavy.
I see you've never played past mission 4 in DoW1.
I’m running Gladius for mine. The way they’re played in DoW, with a wide variety of units being deployed means I feel the tactical flexibility of the Gladius detachment fits them pretty well
You wrong :v all 3 detachment you said have very good benefit with vehicles
Anvil is cool and all but I think ironhead is just broken 😂. Lethal hits on vehicles and walkers is not fair imo. So I’m gonna abuse it while I can 😂. You can fit the entire armored force of 1k or 2k list around the techmarine if you deploy right. Not to mention negating a big dmg hit ONCE PER PHASE from a 2nd techmarine.
Even more effective if you’re DA and just deploy a dark shroud with it.
I'd want to play with this detchament, but the remaining stationary just doesn't sound fun (or competitive).
just give it a go bro no harm in trying
So in the game all about movement phase u get a buff when not moving. Unplayable competitively. In a friendly game with your bro i garage its ok.
Should have let them move half speed and count as not moving
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I feel sad as a nid player seeing those cool detachments for sm...
Not this one :v anvil is suck
I sure hope all the newer detachments for the other factions are as strong as this shit!
So , your idea is to stand, and wait that your opponent is goin to let you kill him while you not-moving? This is crazy and is never gonna happen . Statistics arent important. Important is possibility to use a weapon.
I don't see even the best player being able to win one game with this detachment it's just horrible