@@Sutliff01 85 was the 1st year. Came with the introduction of the IROC-Z Camaro trim. You could choose an LG4 (305 Lo-po 4 BBL), L69 (305 HO 4 BBL), or an LB9 (305 TPI) in 85. I still wonder why on earth anyone chose the LG4. Like the original owner of my old 85 Trans Am.
My daily driver is a 2010 Subaru Legacy with 170 horse and 170 torque. I also have an all original '86 TA with TPI 5.0. I need to find a dyno near Cleveland.
The power loss during the 70s and 80s is the reason why us kids growing up in the 80s glorified the 60s cars that had much more power. It wasn't until the 5.0 Mustang and the Buick Grand National that a Beacon of Hope Came Back to muscle
I had a 5.0 Mustang, it was a turd. Built on a Monday in '88. It would stall coming off the throttle and I never did figure out the problem. Cursed that damn car every time I had to push it off the road. I wasn't very mechanical back then and the only info was word of mouth or a Chilton manual. I'm sure I could fix whatever its issue was today, probably a dying fuel pump. My dad was an old-school carb guy, not a bad mechanic, but he could not understand EFI at all and was zero help. But he taught me how to do brake jobs and we replaced the heater core, another adventure with that car.
If it was mine, I would swap the spreadbore Holley for a non-computer controlled QJet. QJets can get decent mileage and are very adjustable with their metering rod setup.
Good vid, nice old TA too! I have an 84 Trans Am with a stock lower miles carbureted 305 and I can tell you that 145-150 HP factory rating is complete BS especially if the car came with the factory cold air induction package. I just did a vid on this about a week ago showing off my TA's power and backing it up with references to multiple dyno tests and horsepower calculators. According to dyno tests the 82 LG4 305 is capable of roughly 200 crank HP with bone stock internals (later years made slightly more power thanks to a gradual compression increase). One of the chassis dyno tests showed the stock single exhaust and the stock single snorkel type air cleaner assembly are surprisingly big restrictions for that small V8. The test showed the optional factory cold air induction system is worth almost 20 more HP and shockingly even moved peak power up the RPM's a bit which shows just how bad the single snorkel was choking the motor out. One of these 80's LG4 305 TA's with the factory cold air package makes around 180-190 crank HP bone stock assuming a 15-18% drivetrain loss and they are just some cheap exhaust mods away from making 200+ crank HP which is plenty of power for a car that only weighs 3128 pounds. A 2016 Civic weighs 3000 pounds and makes 205 HP but the 305 makes way more torque at a more usable RPM so the weight difference is more than made up for in the third gens favor. There are indeed some hot little modern 4 cylinders out there that can outrun a stock LG4 305 but the difference isn't as big as the misleading factory HP rating would have us believe it is.
@@Crazywaffle5150 You're wrong as well as totally off topic. The point of my comment is what the cars can do BONE STOCK and like I said before this dyno test shows the optional factory cold air system added almost 20 HP more than the factory single snorkel air cleaner assembly and even moved peak power up the RPMs a bit which shows just how badly the single snorkel was choking it out. thirdgenfbody.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/budget-bird-0-phr-june-1987/ The gain is coming just as much from the extra airbox inlet as it is from the temperature of the air. That's the whole reason the HO 305's had a twin snorkel air cleaner assembly, the second inlet for the cold air induction package just goes to the hood scoop instead of the other headlight.
My friend had a 1985 Z28 with a carbureted 305 and automatic and it felt fast like you would expect in a muscle car. Especially off the line it just jumped like it had tons of torque. How in the hell could it only have 150 hp?
Nice to see someone finally talking sense with these early third gen classics.I added the hood bulge cold air induction system to my standard 82 trans am.I also don't have a catalytic converter on mine either and it sounds so much better and knowing the engine can take in more (and cooler too, as opposed to the under hood warmer) air is satisfying too.
“Fuel injection wasn’t available on the V8” come on man...fuel injection was indeed available on the V8 Firebird it was called the LB9 and it had Tuned Port Injection
I'm pretty sure 1985 came with the tuned Port option. I had an 84 Trans Am in high school in 1989 and I used to flip the top of the Breather upside down that sound was so awesome !!!!
I believe the 78 Corvette had something between 190 and 210 hp factory so your baseline through the automatic with a 25% loss you're looking at 173 hp on your 131 hp pull. If it was running on the right A/F it would be right on point.
I test drove one new back in 86. Leaving the lot, I spun the tires for about 30’. After returning and leaving in my 71 Formula 455 ho, I spun for about 300’ 😊
I like watching what's going on with this old trans am. I will absolutely lose interest if it ever goes the LS swap route, too common. But for now. The 80s vibes the videos have and the old 350 in her, has me hooked 100%
Nick Webb so can a 4 cylinder Honda. But does that make any sense? I'm not ignorant to the SBC world or the ls world. I've built way more sbc's than ls motors. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, mod for mod. The LS wins by a landslide. It's easy to make 450rwhp out of a ls1 with STOCK GM heads, small cam , to do that with a SBC, you'll need a mini ram intake, serious heads, a nasty cam, aftermarket computer and wiring harness.
Kfx Guy my dad built tons of 500 plus hp 350s when I was younger it’s not hard to do if you know what your doing you don’t need a huge cam and 2000 dollar heads to make big power out of a sbc
Hey man. Just want to thank you for these videos. And thanks for helping keep the 3rd gens on the road. I see you working on this Trans Am and wondered what your mechanical background is and how old were you when you started wrenchn on these cars.
This series is great to watch. I always loved these slow old third gens. I had an '89 Formula 350 TPI that was bored out to .030 and when it was running right, butt dyno said it was pretty quick, lol.
I had a '89 L98 GTA and she was good fun :). Great looking car too she was black on black leather with the gold honeycombs and lowered and then the dual pipes out back.
Back then.. my 3brothers an i owned 4irocs an 3gtas and all of them was 5.7L.350s! Myself, I think those are some of the best looking rides of the 80s-90s period! Of course, isn't fast by todays standards or numbers, but at this time, they run pretty good and was the best handling car’s on the road!
Clearly that Holley duel pumper was not on that car as new. Probably better with original setup. And this is more than likely a 305 v8. doesn't matter what brand of car it's in. It's still a Chevy 305!
To all you youngsters out there, after about the early 70's until about the mid or late 80's there were not a whole lot of cars that matched the other eras. Just the times, a lot of things going on to produce the situation. Don't expect a lot more stock.
Wouldn’t the back barrels not opening completely cause your super rich condition? If they opened completely it would allow more air in to lean out the mixture and create more power.
Love thirdgens! Despite the “Turd Gen” reputation they are otherwise really slick and good handling cars. I have an ‘83 Daytona 500 Pace car with the LG4 305 and 5 speed T5. Got sick of the low power and decided to see what I could do with the 305 with some .030” over flat top pistons, Edelbrock carb/intake, W/P torquer heads and a comp xe 268 cam. Woke it up immensely and I’m looking to dyno tune it soon!
The biggest hurdle for the third gen cars, was the trans. The T-5 was a really nice shifting transmission but a mildly warmed over 305 could eat that transmission. I had one let loose on a second gear roll on. The 700r4 wasnt much better either. It needed aftermarket help if it was to survive any decent 350.
@@ShyaMiss Mine hasn't blown up just yet. Don''t really beat on it too bad but I am planning on eventually either swapping in a T56 or a TKO600. Not sure which would be a better option in the long run when more engines with more power come along
@@omgmyspleen3582 both are great options. I had a 93 Z28 that was a 383 with a full Llyod Elliot top end on it. His "LE3" package and all supporting mods, made that LT1 REALLY run. All the abuse I threw at that T56, and it just kept begging for more. The rear end... it wasnt so pleased.
Google the list number on that Holley and see what CFM it is. Figure out if the linkage is hitting on the intake manifold or if the seconday shaft is binding up. If it does not have it, you can get carb spacers to clean a linkage binding issue.
it probably has back fired and blowed the power valve, thats why running real rich, put the white spring in the secondary lightest one to get full throttle, 6.5 power valve, if cam is stock, 3.5 if a big cam,
@B Watts didn't say you don't own one either; is it my fault you make inferences? Why don't you own one of these awesome mills?! You know how powerful they are, clearly, from your statements. Maybe you can't handle the awesome power of the legendary 305.
Seeing as how it probably had an 8:1 compression ratio (or less) I don't think the 93 octane was necessary. Well, unless you're going to advance the hell out of the timing at the dyno.
I think the secondary diaphragm and center gasket may be blown on that carb. Also L69 305 actually made more power than the L48 350 as the latter only had 8.5 to one compression. I'd try rebuilding the carb and putting small chamber heads on it to get the compression up but really it needs a set of flat top pistons, a new cam,and intake.
Those spread bore holleys were always gas dumping turds. Do a proper rebuild on a quadrajet. DO NOT get a reman one. They suck. Get one specifically from the late 70s, for a 350, and jet it up yourself. It will run a lot better. Odds are the throttle shafts will be worn out, they need to be drilled out and bushed. After that, a good quality rebuild kit, PROPER float level, and a new accel pump, shit will run like fuel injection. If my qjet can start in -25*f weather and run well in 100* heat, anyone's can. Also, these cars (tbh most american cars from about 1970+) used a charcoal canister to vent the tank and shove the fumes in the carb to burn.
Did you check the floats on that Holley carburetor, to make sure that there isn't gasoline inside them? Holly did use a set of plastic floats , that would fill up with gasoline. They were replaced with tin floats, that wouldn't allow gasoline inside of them. Did you check the idle air mixture screws at the base of the carburetor? There is a special tool for that procedure.
Great hair & Nice car for $1500. The Holley vacuum secondaries will only go open as far as the engine needs. An engine w 134 hp probably cant generate enough suction to pull them all the way open? I could be wrong, but I had a 67 Firebird 400 w 750 Holley vac secondaries & it ran great w that carb. I bet you still have a few more horses to release..
LsxMatt hey man. I’ve had a lot of experience with those motors and you need more timing. Like a lot more. I had 37 degrees advanced in my 1980 350 corvette I locked the distributor and set it to 37
My son has yearning for an 82-91 trans am for two years now. If you lean that carburetor out a little more will you also get better fuel economy and performance?
I have a 1989 Trans Am GTA with a 388 in it. It is very fast, or was, after 22 years the 388 gave up the ghost. Now prepping for an LS motor. I love the looks of the Third Gens!
The vacuum secondaries only open as far as the engine demands.... You can change the rate of opening, but the distance they open is based on the engine demand.
That's not quite right. A softer spring will allow the secondaries to open a little further. I'm curious as to how much vacuum the engine was seeing at WOT. Was it 0" of Hg or 5"? If it was 0, then there is no reason to change that secondary spring. I say its time for a 650 DP!
A big improvement in power for our '76 Oldsmobile was to switch out the Rochester Quad for a Holley double pumper 650 (?). That was a long time ago. Would that have been beneficial for horsepower? Obviously not for MPG.
@@moonbeamskies3346 I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that my car had the LG4 V8 which only produced 145 HP, so I wouldn't be shocked to see that its slower than a commuter car.
Actually FI was available on the V8, '85 being the first year for TPI. I had an 86 T/A with the 305 and tuned port injection. Really quite torquey. But the '86 lost 10hp from the '85 model year, and the T/A had 10 less hp than the Camaro due to a more restrictive air intake system. With my 2.77 gear set and the mandatory 4 speed auto, it ran 16.26, and that was with about 150,000km on it. Still was a pretty fun car to drive.
What is the TOTAL timing in the distributor?...not just initial..I do recall that most jets should NOT be drilled due to the taper at the entrance, that will change fuel flow....Also, may want to change the vacuum spring in the secondary pot..just ideas...
The California 1982 Camaro offerings in July were 2.5L L4 with 4 speed or automatic with 90 to 92 HP, a 2.8L V6 with automatic with 102 HP and a 5.0L V8 with 135 Hp and an automatic. The L4 had the highest HP per liter. It always seems weird that the 2.5L was like 90 to 92 HP and the 5.0 V8 at 135 to 145 hp. If you were under 25 in 1982 that V8 was considered a muscle car and the car insurance was huge. This was not an era for fast cars. The emission equipment on engines was still evolving. The O2 Oxygen sensor in 1981 GM cars was suppose to be replaced every 25k miles, with the 1982 they said the same part number was lifetime. Thus your 1982 car got free O2 sensors until the car warranty was out. Cars for the California market had equal or less HP than the other states, the Eprom can be different too.Even the cat convertor can be different. A friends used 1985 V6 Camaro with TPI I drove seems like it was faster off the line than the brand new V8 1982 Camaro I test drove. 1982 was I believe the worst year in car sales since 1961 or something. In that era many folks were holding on to their old cars.
We had a new '86 TA, 305HO w/ turbo hydromatic and WS6 suspension. White with red and grey interior and t tops. Was a showroom car at Adams Pontiac in Painsville, Ohio. Guess it was kind of rare, being built that way, but I don't have any PHS documentation. It was pretty quick for the day.
If you run 10:1 you can adjust your idle mix screws for that and lean it out. It’s probably gonna stall because of timing. So adjust timing for that and it probably needs a bit more idle rpm after all that. Your secondaries won’t open if you have too heavy of a spring in your secondary vac pod, or the membrane is shot or your carb is too big for the application. It’s a vacuum sec carb which means sec open up as much as need be.
CC Ryder you only need to uncork the motor with bolt-one to get in the 220hp range, no head porting or cam required. GM stunted the hp with an ultra restricted exhaust system, a single snorkel air cleaner and a computer that retards timing to cut power. Some cars also came with a clutch fan that sucks power also. I had two LG4 3rd gens - an 84 and 85 and just did bolt ons and they both ran very low 15s at 92+ mph back in the early 90s. The hot ticket is to completely rip off the entire exhaust and get a set of headers with a 3” cat and a 3” performance cat back - worth at least 35hp, if not more. You can swap the single snorkel air cleaner assembly for an L69 one with a k&n filter 5 to 10 hp in 5 minutes. You can also swap the intake manifold for a performer egr- worth 10hp. The last thing - almost impossible to find, is to get an edelbrock micro-plus - an add on ecu that fixes the timing retard issues GM forced on the LG4 - worth at least 15hp, if not more. You can also swap the clutch fan for an electric one and underdrive pulleys help also. All you need to do in terms of tuning is use an an A/F gauge and swap out secondary metering rods and hangars to get the 13:1 optimal ratio. You can pick up power with heads and a cam swap - problem is the heads are small bore specific and honestly are a PITA to port right due to being iron. The motors do respond well to a cam change, but except for 87 cars, they are all non-roller blocks and regular cams don’t have the right mix of lift to duration.
I've had my 1988 Formula 350 WS6 since 1992. When the old L98 died I put a new GM roller cam 5.7 Chevy that was the replacement engine for the Caprice/Roadmaster/Cadillac Fleetwood. It was over $1000 dollars less than the L98. Well over 500,000 miles on that engine today. How? Regular oil changes with Mobil 1 and keeping the tach under 5000 RPM...Tune Ports don't run well up there anyway. Getting rid of ALL emissions BS ,bumping the timing up, changing the rear gear to a 3:42 and installing an Eaton True-Trac made the car run decent for what it is...WAY better than it was stock...
Brings back memories. I had an 1989 Iroc-z Camaro which is basically the same car and while it didn't have the power to get out of it's own way it was a blast to drive. If I could go back in time I would have upgraded the chassis with subframe connectors and a strut brace, installed better shocks and struts, control arms, etc and then slapped an LS engine in it. Would have made it a great daily driver.
I had a 1984 15th ann. edition with a carbed 305 the L69 and it was rated at 195 hp. I pulled it out and put a mildly built 357 in it! Then it was fast and fun to drive!
My '85 Grand Marquis is supposed to make 140hp with a 302 with Ford's TBI system. Currently it isn't running right but it honestly feels like 100hp, you feel the torque and then absolutely nothing but noise.
Had an 83 Trans am..owned it from 1994 to 2000 in SI NY... Had some rust issues with the shocks but otherwise I don't remember too many issues.. The cross fire injection was slow but everything was back then
My 86 bird 250,000 plus orig miles 305 talk reliability 1 fuel 1 water pump 1 starter. Thats pretty reliable id say still runs strong and secondaries just make that sound. Thanks for posting video nice work
Will a car loose dramatic power if it’s low mileage and hasn’t been ran in years? I’ve seen many cars with over 100k miles that were probably heavily pushed that have lost power but I want to know if a car that was babied under 25k would have really lost much.
here is another issue pending on what year that it. looking it might be an 85 maybe 86. but the body i am guessing is an 85 which is what i have and the 305 was fuel injected. so who ever had this befor swamped out the original fuel intake system. On mine i was makeing lower end 230.
I have an 80 Camaro that I am working on. The guy I bought the car from said it had a 305 from an 87 Monte Carlo. That 305 brand new only made 150, now it is probably making 130 and probably 100 to the wheels with a 3,000 stall that needs to go. So you got me beat in horsepower and weight.
Yo Matty. If your not going to go "LS" and just nibble around the edges with the stock motor. Back in the day the issues were crummy cats (seriously bad) vapor lock and the stock exhaust left ALOT to be desired. The ignition system typically was ok. We also ran 160-180 thermostats depending on the time of year. Good luck in journey with this ride. Had a 85 Z28 and loved that car (made on Wed). Oh..almost forgot. The Firebird intake system wasn't as efficient as the Z28 dual snorkel. So look into that as well.
So if the secondaries were all the way open, timing was optimized, and AFR brought to a mid 12 or high 12 ish at WOT my guess would be.... 155 wheel? and maybe 225 torque.
You should also order some softer secondary springs for it so the secondary’s open more ( that is if the engine actually needs them to open more) and the jet kit
Hey Matt! Im active duty Air Force but I also work at a shop in cream ridge new jersey. If you are looking for some good power N/A with that small block you should really check in with us! The engine Builder is Henry Jackson who is well-known for his reliable N/A power without hurting the bank. He's also an honest person and can give you realistic expectations for any combination. I can show you the motor in my truck to give you an idea. I would also love to help with any projects any way i can!
@@ClipDog yeah he certainly could! Be warned- he will probably try persuading you to use a carburetor on it, but for his own good reasons. But anything is possible!
This vid is really interesting because i have a 85 5.0 liter V8 automatic trans am with the fuel injection port, so to my knowledge i have the profomance edition of the car for that year and it have a butt ton of touge too and not much speed to show for it, also why does the speedo only go to 80?
Car manufacturers went with the lower calibrated speedometer as a way of showing the government and insurance companies that they weren't promoting dangerous driving and excessive speed. Of course it didn't work and eventually they switched back. Now they just put a speed limiter in the ecm.
20 yr old here. Daily a original 327 1969 Impala 3 speed. Enough power to do 120 mph, burn the tired and do donuts. I put about 50 miles a day on it. If you maintain your car, it lasts.
Your secondaries on that Holley were not opening fully simple because the butterflies were hitting the stock intake ports. You need a 4 barrel spacer. Spacer + fully opening secondaries = 10 more hp 👍
I had an 88 Iroc tpi. That car drove awesome. I miss it. Solid roof too. No T-tops. Those and the Formula Trans-Am in my opinion are fucking sweet rides.
Got to tour GM Van Nuys where F platforms was made I early 90' s before shuddering plant. Amazing how it All comes together . The engines all were EFI by then. Cant beat reliability. For an 86'.
@@davejohnson3474 my best freind is only 19 and hes had no less than 3 firebirds, lol, 1st one was a 96 parts car, 2nd was a 98 daily driver and third was a 2001 daily driver. He sold the 96 wrecked the 98 and sold the 2001
Hi Matt. Tuned Port Injection was available on the trans am 5.0 from 1985. I think that it was rated closer to 200hp at the crank.
190-215
I thought 86 was the first year?
@@Sutliff01
85 was the 1st year. Came with the introduction of the IROC-Z Camaro trim.
You could choose an LG4 (305 Lo-po 4 BBL), L69 (305 HO 4 BBL), or an LB9 (305 TPI) in 85.
I still wonder why on earth anyone chose the LG4. Like the original owner of my old 85 Trans Am.
245hp/345tq 5.7 tpi was the engine to get in a third gen
@@of_lion22 the L69 was a runner
It may be slow, but it's better looking then most new cars.
Ok boomer
@@adamroberts3623 - Gen X. Get it right 😉
@@adamroberts3623 cannot locate the funny
Adam Roberts ok virgin
FUCKING RIGHT
Trans Am: Because it takes more than a sweet mullet to be king of the trailer park lol! I love trans ams
Josephine Johnson that’s an epic comment 👍🏻🇬🇧
Who's 4 banger commuter car makes more power?
2.2l s10. 120hp new, probably 110 if that right now.
My Prelude makes more HP at 187 or like 150ish to the wheels but you sure got me beat on the torque. lol
2004 scion xa with 103hp. 😂
My daily driver is a 2010 Subaru Legacy with 170 horse and 170 torque. I also have an all original '86 TA with TPI 5.0. I need to find a dyno near Cleveland.
I've got a 2018 Mazda 3 with the 2.5 putting out 185 hp at the crank. Not sure what it is at the wheels.....wanna race?
They were slow right off the lot. Smog control.
LS swap it!
@nallen100 Yep....fast Mustangs are LS swapped. The Mustang crowd doesnt like hearing that.👌
@@modernmusclecar1904 Mustangs are fast anyways weather with an LS or not
@@cat-em3mj But you never see a chevy with a Ford motor tho.
@@modernmusclecar1904 That's beside the point.
My friend Dwight drives a red one.
He also uses it to plow beets on schrute farms
@@apjohnstonable xD
Aryu Singhal tell Dwight he still owes me 2 bucks
@@filthyanimal874 Will do! 👍
Isn't the office a woman's show like golden girls?
Still has the cool factor many cars don’t!!
The power loss during the 70s and 80s is the reason why us kids growing up in the 80s glorified the 60s cars that had much more power. It wasn't until the 5.0 Mustang and the Buick Grand National that a Beacon of Hope Came Back to muscle
Yet Toyota and Nissan were able to get a lot of power from their 3 liter 6s
I had a 5.0 Mustang, it was a turd. Built on a Monday in '88. It would stall coming off the throttle and I never did figure out the problem. Cursed that damn car every time I had to push it off the road. I wasn't very mechanical back then and the only info was word of mouth or a Chilton manual. I'm sure I could fix whatever its issue was today, probably a dying fuel pump. My dad was an old-school carb guy, not a bad mechanic, but he could not understand EFI at all and was zero help. But he taught me how to do brake jobs and we replaced the heater core, another adventure with that car.
If it was mine, I would swap the spreadbore Holley for a non-computer controlled QJet. QJets can get decent mileage and are very adjustable with their metering rod setup.
Good vid, nice old TA too! I have an 84 Trans Am with a stock lower miles carbureted 305 and I can tell you that 145-150 HP factory rating is complete BS especially if the car came with the factory cold air induction package. I just did a vid on this about a week ago showing off my TA's power and backing it up with references to multiple dyno tests and horsepower calculators. According to dyno tests the 82 LG4 305 is capable of roughly 200 crank HP with bone stock internals (later years made slightly more power thanks to a gradual compression increase).
One of the chassis dyno tests showed the stock single exhaust and the stock single snorkel type air cleaner assembly are surprisingly big restrictions for that small V8. The test showed the optional factory cold air induction system is worth almost 20 more HP and shockingly even moved peak power up the RPM's a bit which shows just how bad the single snorkel was choking the motor out.
One of these 80's LG4 305 TA's with the factory cold air package makes around 180-190 crank HP bone stock assuming a 15-18% drivetrain loss and they are just some cheap exhaust mods away from making 200+ crank HP which is plenty of power for a car that only weighs 3128 pounds.
A 2016 Civic weighs 3000 pounds and makes 205 HP but the 305 makes way more torque at a more usable RPM so the weight difference is more than made up for in the third gens favor.
There are indeed some hot little modern 4 cylinders out there that can outrun a stock LG4 305 but the difference isn't as big as the misleading factory HP rating would have us believe it is.
Cold air induction does jack shit dude. Probably just needs a better cam and timing and you could get more power.
@@Crazywaffle5150 You're wrong as well as totally off topic. The point of my comment is what the cars can do BONE STOCK and like I said before this dyno test shows the optional factory cold air system added almost 20 HP more than the factory single snorkel air cleaner assembly and even moved peak power up the RPMs a bit which shows just how badly the single snorkel was choking it out. thirdgenfbody.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/budget-bird-0-phr-june-1987/ The gain is coming just as much from the extra airbox inlet as it is from the temperature of the air. That's the whole reason the HO 305's had a twin snorkel air cleaner assembly, the second inlet for the cold air induction package just goes to the hood scoop instead of the other headlight.
My friend had a 1985 Z28 with a carbureted 305 and automatic and it felt fast like you would expect in a muscle car. Especially off the line it just jumped like it had tons of torque. How in the hell could it only have 150 hp?
Nice to see someone finally talking sense with these early third gen classics.I added the hood bulge cold air induction system to my standard 82 trans am.I also don't have a catalytic converter on mine either and it sounds so much better and knowing the engine can take in more (and cooler too, as opposed to the under hood warmer) air is satisfying too.
“Fuel injection wasn’t available on the V8” come on man...fuel injection was indeed available on the V8 Firebird it was called the LB9 and it had Tuned Port Injection
You are correct. The tpi was available on the trans am since 85'
I'm pretty sure 1985 came with the tuned Port option. I had an 84 Trans Am in high school in 1989 and I used to flip the top of the Breather upside down that sound was so awesome !!!!
I believe the 78 Corvette had something between 190 and 210 hp factory so your baseline through the automatic with a 25% loss you're looking at 173 hp on your 131 hp pull. If it was running on the right A/F it would be right on point.
I test drove one new back in 86. Leaving the lot, I spun the tires for about 30’. After returning and leaving in my 71 Formula 455 ho, I spun for about 300’ 😊
Nice 👍
I like watching what's going on with this old trans am. I will absolutely lose interest if it ever goes the LS swap route, too common. But for now. The 80s vibes the videos have and the old 350 in her, has me hooked 100%
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe a 2JZ
He’s swapping an ls with a turbo in it. And I can’t wait.
Kfx Guy the 350 can make just as much power as a ls
Nick Webb so can a 4 cylinder Honda. But does that make any sense? I'm not ignorant to the SBC world or the ls world. I've built way more sbc's than ls motors. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, mod for mod. The LS wins by a landslide. It's easy to make 450rwhp out of a ls1 with STOCK GM heads, small cam , to do that with a SBC, you'll need a mini ram intake, serious heads, a nasty cam, aftermarket computer and wiring harness.
Kfx Guy my dad built tons of 500 plus hp 350s when I was younger it’s not hard to do if you know what your doing you don’t need a huge cam and 2000 dollar heads to make big power out of a sbc
I'd love to see a mean 383 stroker in this.
here you go! th-cam.com/video/8fkWaF1HQCE/w-d-xo.html
Got one in my 95 k2500
It's not a chevy. Put a real Pontiac engine in it..
Dropped a worked LS7 454 ci in my 80'. 10.86 @129mph.
Quite a difference from the 301 turbo pos.
A lot has changed since the 80s, brother, some good some bad.
hey..... laugh all y'all want...but that synth beat got them girls hot back then!
They're great grandmothers now. Yuck. No good
That whole mullet joke on the 3rd gen camaros and firebirds is getting really old
I've had to Trans am,s..
And a Camaro.The Camaro was the only one i've driven that i sported a Mullet in.Lol.
Hey man. Just want to thank you for these videos. And thanks for helping keep the 3rd gens on the road. I see you working on this Trans Am and wondered what your mechanical background is and how old were you when you started wrenchn on these cars.
This series is great to watch. I always loved these slow old third gens. I had an '89 Formula 350 TPI that was bored out to .030 and when it was running right, butt dyno said it was pretty quick, lol.
I had a '89 L98 GTA and she was good fun :). Great looking car too she was black on black leather with the gold honeycombs and lowered and then the dual pipes out back.
Back then.. my 3brothers an i owned 4irocs an 3gtas and all of them was 5.7L.350s! Myself, I think those are some of the best looking rides of the 80s-90s period! Of course, isn't fast by todays standards or numbers, but at this time, they run pretty good and was the best handling car’s on the road!
You can drill and tap the metering plate and make it adjustable by installing jets.
Fuel injection was available that year in 86 you can get to TPI or they had throttle body injection
2:18 "Don't tell my heart, my achey breaky heart...."
Clearly that Holley duel pumper was not on that car as new. Probably better with original setup. And this is more than likely a 305 v8. doesn't matter what brand of car it's in. It's still a Chevy 305!
To all you youngsters out there, after about the early 70's until about the mid or late 80's there were not a whole lot of cars that matched the other eras. Just the times, a lot of things going on to produce the situation. Don't expect a lot more stock.
Wouldn’t the back barrels not opening completely cause your super rich condition? If they opened completely it would allow more air in to lean out the mixture and create more power.
You bet they are. If the butterflies open it will likely dip into the 12s for afr
Love thirdgens! Despite the “Turd Gen” reputation they are otherwise really slick and good handling cars. I have an ‘83 Daytona 500 Pace car with the LG4 305 and 5 speed T5. Got sick of the low power and decided to see what I could do with the 305 with some .030” over flat top pistons, Edelbrock carb/intake, W/P torquer heads and a comp xe 268 cam. Woke it up immensely and I’m looking to dyno tune it soon!
OMG my SPLEEN buddy had one with roughly the same setup. Was around 300hp. Plenty from a 305
Caleb Fields nice! Much better than the stock 145 haha
The biggest hurdle for the third gen cars, was the trans. The T-5 was a really nice shifting transmission but a mildly warmed over 305 could eat that transmission. I had one let loose on a second gear roll on. The 700r4 wasnt much better either. It needed aftermarket help if it was to survive any decent 350.
@@ShyaMiss Mine hasn't blown up just yet. Don''t really beat on it too bad but I am planning on eventually either swapping in a T56 or a TKO600. Not sure which would be a better option in the long run when more engines with more power come along
@@omgmyspleen3582 both are great options. I had a 93 Z28 that was a 383 with a full Llyod Elliot top end on it. His "LE3" package and all supporting mods, made that LT1 REALLY run. All the abuse I threw at that T56, and it just kept begging for more. The rear end... it wasnt so pleased.
Google the list number on that Holley and see what CFM it is. Figure out if the linkage is hitting on the intake manifold or if the seconday shaft is binding up. If it does not have it, you can get carb spacers to clean a linkage binding issue.
it probably has back fired and blowed the power valve, thats why running real rich, put the white spring in the secondary lightest one to get full throttle, 6.5 power valve, if cam is stock, 3.5 if a big cam,
The 305s were slow when new. The 305 belongs on a boat. As the anchor.
@B Watts LOL you say so. I was showing them my tail lights in the 1980s son. All of them. You don't know what 'fast' is.
@B Watts you say so champ
@B Watts Great! Enjoy your bad-ass stock 305, Speed-master!
@B Watts didn't say you don't own one either; is it my fault you make inferences? Why don't you own one of these awesome mills?! You know how powerful they are, clearly, from your statements. Maybe you can't handle the awesome power of the legendary 305.
Whut the buck I'm getting out of here you can keep your tree 05 bi the way
Seeing as how it probably had an 8:1 compression ratio (or less) I don't think the 93 octane was necessary. Well, unless you're going to advance the hell out of the timing at the dyno.
Love watching every video man. Life changing motivation thanks.
How did you come across your garage where you do all the work on your cars
My 85 trans am 305 5 speed ran like 15.4 with headers and muffler still had quadrajunk
I had the same car when I was 18, I love this car
I just got one of these for my first car it’s awesome to see someone making a series out of one
Your production quality has really improved. Keep it up!
I think the secondary diaphragm and center gasket may be blown on that carb.
Also L69 305 actually made more power than the L48 350 as the latter only had 8.5 to one compression.
I'd try rebuilding the carb and putting small chamber heads on it to get the compression up but really it needs a set of flat top pistons, a new cam,and intake.
I feel your pain as my 1992 rs equipped with the sluggish 5.0 tbi cannot move out of it's own way.
Great video Matt 💯✊🏽💯...... ‘85 Trans Am’s have a special place in My heart
Those spread bore holleys were always gas dumping turds. Do a proper rebuild on a quadrajet. DO NOT get a reman one. They suck. Get one specifically from the late 70s, for a 350, and jet it up yourself. It will run a lot better. Odds are the throttle shafts will be worn out, they need to be drilled out and bushed. After that, a good quality rebuild kit, PROPER float level, and a new accel pump, shit will run like fuel injection. If my qjet can start in -25*f weather and run well in 100* heat, anyone's can. Also, these cars (tbh most american cars from about 1970+) used a charcoal canister to vent the tank and shove the fumes in the carb to burn.
Can't believe You found a stock one! The first things we would do were long tube headers , intake,carb,cam, and a bowl blend on the heads!
Did you check the floats on that Holley carburetor, to make sure that there isn't gasoline inside them? Holly did use a set of plastic floats , that would fill up with gasoline. They were replaced with tin floats, that wouldn't allow gasoline inside of them. Did you check the idle air mixture screws at the base of the carburetor? There is a special tool for that procedure.
Great hair & Nice car for $1500. The Holley vacuum secondaries will only go open as far as the engine needs. An engine w 134 hp probably cant generate enough suction to pull them all the way open? I could be wrong, but I had a 67 Firebird 400 w 750 Holley vac secondaries & it ran great w that carb. I bet you still have a few more horses to release..
I haven’t checked the diaphragm yet, but thats exactly what we were thinking.
LsxMatt hey man. I’ve had a lot of experience with those motors and you need more timing. Like a lot more. I had 37 degrees advanced in my 1980 350 corvette I locked the distributor and set it to 37
At wide open throttle the engine has 0 vacuum
Will Simpson not entirely correct. Or else the engine wouldn’t run. The manifold always has vacuum. It’s 3-7inhg The carb becomes the restriction
Wow, the 67' Firebird is one of the best looking care made. I was a hair away from having a convertible in red.
Fun! Did you address the secondaries not opening" you mention the jets only. Curious. Good vid.
Yeah needs different spring in secondaries.
Yeah if the secondary butterflies are only opening as far as the video shows there is half the rich problem...
@@LSswapGarage1 ya, that was kinda my point. There appeared to be plenty of fuel.
His AFR is in the 11s and it should be mid 12s. It needs air which is severely restricted by the leaking secondary diaphragm
@@LSswapGarage1 Agreed
My son has yearning for an
82-91 trans am for two years now.
If you lean that carburetor out a little more will you also get better fuel economy and performance?
I have a 1989 Trans Am GTA with a 388 in it. It is very fast, or was, after 22 years the 388 gave up the ghost. Now prepping for an LS motor. I love the looks of the Third Gens!
Lmfao, the old man FARTED after the dyno pull....lol
The vacuum secondaries only open as far as the engine demands.... You can change the rate of opening, but the distance they open is based on the engine demand.
That's not quite right. A softer spring will allow the secondaries to open a little further. I'm curious as to how much vacuum the engine was seeing at WOT. Was it 0" of Hg or 5"? If it was 0, then there is no reason to change that secondary spring. I say its time for a 650 DP!
A big improvement in power for our '76 Oldsmobile was to switch out the Rochester Quad for a Holley double pumper 650 (?). That was a long time ago. Would that have been beneficial for horsepower? Obviously not for MPG.
I had a carbureted 305 1987 Trans Am. Incredibly slow. Got beat by a mid 90s Cavalier in a straight line.
The Cavalier must have been modified. Based on my memories of a friend's 1985 Z28, there is just no way it could beat your car if it was stock.
@@moonbeamskies3346 I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that my car had the LG4 V8 which only produced 145 HP, so I wouldn't be shocked to see that its slower than a commuter car.
Actually FI was available on the V8, '85 being the first year for TPI. I had an 86 T/A with the 305 and tuned port injection. Really quite torquey. But the '86 lost 10hp from the '85 model year, and the T/A had 10 less hp than the Camaro due to a more restrictive air intake system. With my 2.77 gear set and the mandatory 4 speed auto, it ran 16.26, and that was with about 150,000km on it. Still was a pretty fun car to drive.
What is the TOTAL timing in the distributor?...not just initial..I do recall that most jets should NOT be drilled due to the taper at the entrance, that will change fuel flow....Also, may want to change the vacuum spring in the secondary pot..just ideas...
Great channel keep up the good work!!!👍👍
The California 1982 Camaro offerings in July were 2.5L L4 with 4 speed or automatic with 90 to 92 HP, a 2.8L V6 with automatic with 102 HP and a 5.0L V8 with 135 Hp and an automatic. The L4 had the highest HP per liter. It always seems weird that the 2.5L was like 90 to 92 HP and the 5.0 V8 at 135 to 145 hp. If you were under 25 in 1982 that V8 was considered a muscle car and the car insurance was huge. This was not an era for fast cars. The emission equipment on engines was still evolving. The O2 Oxygen sensor in 1981 GM cars was suppose to be replaced every 25k miles, with the 1982 they said the same part number was lifetime. Thus your 1982 car got free O2 sensors until the car warranty was out. Cars for the California market had equal or less HP than the other states, the Eprom can be different too.Even the cat convertor can be different. A friends used 1985 V6 Camaro with TPI I drove seems like it was faster off the line than the brand new V8 1982 Camaro I test drove. 1982 was I believe the worst year in car sales since 1961 or something. In that era many folks were holding on to their old cars.
What was the go with the secondarys not fully opening...? How to fix that...?
Can't wait to see the results after rejetting. Keep up the great work!
We had a new '86 TA, 305HO w/ turbo hydromatic and WS6 suspension. White with red and grey interior and t tops. Was a showroom car at Adams Pontiac in Painsville, Ohio. Guess it was kind of rare, being built that way, but I don't have any PHS documentation. It was pretty quick for the day.
I almost fell asleep watching this
You should go to bed then.
@@tempest411 nice
Me too sunny
If you run 10:1 you can adjust your idle mix screws for that and lean it out. It’s probably gonna stall because of timing. So adjust timing for that and it probably needs a bit more idle rpm after all that. Your secondaries won’t open if you have too heavy of a spring in your secondary vac pod, or the membrane is shot or your carb is too big for the application. It’s a vacuum sec carb which means sec open up as much as need be.
Love ur vids bro been a fan since day one. You are exactly the type of person I would want working on my car.
Takes a few hours of wrenching and some aftermarket parts to get the car into the 220hp+ range with the carb still intact.
CC Ryder you only need to uncork the motor with bolt-one to get in the 220hp range, no head porting or cam required. GM stunted the hp with an ultra restricted exhaust system, a single snorkel air cleaner and a computer that retards timing to cut power. Some cars also came with a clutch fan that sucks power also. I had two LG4 3rd gens - an 84 and 85 and just did bolt ons and they both ran very low 15s at 92+ mph back in the early 90s. The hot ticket is to completely rip off the entire exhaust and get a set of headers with a 3” cat and a 3” performance cat back - worth at least 35hp, if not more. You can swap the single snorkel air cleaner assembly for an L69 one with a k&n filter 5 to 10 hp in 5 minutes. You can also swap the intake manifold for a performer egr- worth 10hp. The last thing - almost impossible to find, is to get an edelbrock micro-plus - an add on ecu that fixes the timing retard issues GM forced on the LG4 - worth at least 15hp, if not more. You can also swap the clutch fan for an electric one and underdrive pulleys help also. All you need to do in terms of tuning is use an an A/F gauge and swap out secondary metering rods and hangars to get the 13:1 optimal ratio. You can pick up power with heads and a cam swap - problem is the heads are small bore specific and honestly are a PITA to port right due to being iron. The motors do respond well to a cam change, but except for 87 cars, they are all non-roller blocks and regular cams don’t have the right mix of lift to duration.
I had a 88 GTA Trans Am. It had a 305 TPI with less than 200hp. It was still fun to drive with a manual transmission.
I've had my 1988 Formula 350 WS6 since 1992. When the old L98 died I put a new GM roller cam 5.7 Chevy that was the replacement engine for the Caprice/Roadmaster/Cadillac Fleetwood. It was over $1000 dollars less than the L98. Well over 500,000 miles on that engine today. How? Regular oil changes with Mobil 1 and keeping the tach under 5000 RPM...Tune Ports don't run well up there anyway. Getting rid of ALL emissions BS ,bumping the timing up, changing the rear gear to a 3:42 and installing an Eaton True-Trac made the car run decent for what it is...WAY better than it was stock...
Brings back memories. I had an 1989 Iroc-z Camaro which is basically the same car and while it didn't have the power to get out of it's own way it was a blast to drive. If I could go back in time I would have upgraded the chassis with subframe connectors and a strut brace, installed better shocks and struts, control arms, etc and then slapped an LS engine in it. Would have made it a great daily driver.
Didn't this also come with the TPI on the 305? A friend had a yellow IROC (same year) it wasn't carbureted.
I got the same carburetor running 350 with Cam and the same carb 600 CFM with 57 Jets do you have to gradually do mixture and check the spark plugs
"Speedier than that ."
epic Smoky and the Bandit reference. lol
"I'd like to kick his ass just once"
-Little Enous
for got to say did you replace the wires and the spark plugs during that test. because I know it also know that would effect it if they were old set
I had an '83 Trans Am with the 305 V8. I swear, I think my 4-cylinder Toyota Tacoma could probably outrun it!
I had a 76 TA with a 455 4spd. Toyota would have gotten destroyed! Supra of today might have a good chance of hanging with TA till about 130mph.
Always wanted a black/gold one.
you got my sub and thumbs up just for the music and VHS effects.
Your in luck then😂
I had a 1984 15th ann. edition with a carbed 305 the L69 and it was rated at 195 hp. I pulled it out and put a mildly built 357 in it! Then it was fast and fun to drive!
My '85 Grand Marquis is supposed to make 140hp with a 302 with Ford's TBI system. Currently it isn't running right but it honestly feels like 100hp, you feel the torque and then absolutely nothing but noise.
love the pedal pumping at the start, I have a few videos of myself doing it to a 88 camaro
Had an 83 Trans am..owned it from 1994 to 2000 in SI NY... Had some rust issues with the shocks but otherwise I don't remember too many issues.. The cross fire injection was slow but everything was back then
I press like in the first 10 seconds even if I don't watch right away 😂 do you have patron Matt !?!
My 86 bird 250,000 plus orig miles 305 talk reliability 1 fuel 1 water pump 1 starter. Thats pretty reliable id say still runs strong and secondaries just make that sound. Thanks for posting video nice work
Will a car loose dramatic power if it’s low mileage and hasn’t been ran in years? I’ve seen many cars with over 100k miles that were probably heavily pushed that have lost power but I want to know if a car that was babied under 25k would have really lost much.
here is another issue pending on what year that it. looking it might be an 85 maybe 86. but the body i am guessing is an 85 which is what i have and the 305 was fuel injected. so who ever had this befor swamped out the original fuel intake system. On mine i was makeing lower end 230.
Give us an EFI conversion vid.
efi was so available on the 5.0 it was ether carb, Throttle buddy, or TPI
I have an 80 Camaro that I am working on. The guy I bought the car from said it had a 305 from an 87 Monte Carlo. That 305 brand new only made 150, now it is probably making 130 and probably 100 to the wheels with a 3,000 stall that needs to go. So you got me beat in horsepower and weight.
Yo Matty.
If your not going to go "LS" and just nibble around the edges with the stock motor.
Back in the day the issues were crummy cats (seriously bad) vapor lock and the stock exhaust left ALOT to be desired.
The ignition system typically was ok. We also ran 160-180 thermostats depending on the time of year. Good luck in journey with this ride. Had a 85 Z28 and loved that car (made on Wed).
Oh..almost forgot. The Firebird intake system wasn't as efficient as the Z28 dual snorkel. So look into that as well.
So if the secondaries were all the way open, timing was optimized, and AFR brought to a mid 12 or high 12 ish at WOT my guess would be.... 155 wheel? and maybe 225 torque.
You should also order some softer secondary springs for it so the secondary’s open more ( that is if the engine actually needs them to open more) and the jet kit
Hey Matt! Im active duty Air Force but I also work at a shop in cream ridge new jersey. If you are looking for some good power N/A with that small block you should really check in with us! The engine Builder is Henry Jackson who is well-known for his reliable N/A power without hurting the bank. He's also an honest person and can give you realistic expectations for any combination. I can show you the motor in my truck to give you an idea. I would also love to help with any projects any way i can!
Does your buddy build some good N/A powered LS motors, looking to do an LS swap in my Iroc, I'm always in Jackson NJ.
@@ClipDog yeah he certainly could! Be warned- he will probably try persuading you to use a carburetor on it, but for his own good reasons. But anything is possible!
I had a white '88 GTA gray leather with digital dash, Bose, T-top and steering wheel controls. Oh and a Paxton.
Go to a weaker vacuum secondary spring and you can change the jet plate on the secondary of those carburetors
This vid is really interesting because i have a 85 5.0 liter V8 automatic trans am with the fuel injection port, so to my knowledge i have the profomance edition of the car for that year and it have a butt ton of touge too and not much speed to show for it, also why does the speedo only go to 80?
Car manufacturers went with the lower calibrated speedometer as a way of showing the government and insurance companies that they weren't promoting dangerous driving and excessive speed. Of course it didn't work and eventually they switched back. Now they just put a speed limiter in the ecm.
I did not know that, thank you. You learn something everyday
Hey mat I have a 89 trans am, 120,000 kms and runs like new. Looks better than any new sports car these days and gets a lot of attention.
20 yr old here. Daily a original 327 1969 Impala 3 speed. Enough power to do 120 mph, burn the tired and do donuts. I put about 50 miles a day on it. If you maintain your car, it lasts.
Have to get those secondary’s to open up fully, should help some with the rich fuel mixture.
Your secondaries on that Holley were not opening fully simple because the butterflies were hitting the stock intake ports. You need a 4 barrel spacer. Spacer + fully opening secondaries = 10 more hp 👍
I had an 88 Iroc tpi. That car drove awesome. I miss it. Solid roof too. No T-tops. Those and the Formula Trans-Am in my opinion are fucking sweet rides.
why didn't you fix the problem with the secondary's?? is it possible the throttle cable isn't adjusted right??
They’re vacuum secondaries. The diaphragm seems to have a small leak so I’ll change that out before taking it back.
That's a good majority of your rich mixture... dumping fuel like mad but no secondary airflow
Got to tour GM Van Nuys where F platforms was made I early 90' s before shuddering plant. Amazing how it All comes together . The engines all were EFI by then. Cant beat reliability. For an 86'.
140 hp on a v8 to get 15mpg 😂
TOTAL HORROR SHOW..LOL
150hp standard? Lol what a piece of shit.
@@davejohnson3474 it's a pretty cool looking car so I'd just ls swap it.
@@joshuamcpeek4708 Never really liked 3rd gen but better looking than 4th gen but for me it has to be 1st and 2nd gen Camaro's
@@davejohnson3474 my best freind is only 19 and hes had no less than 3 firebirds, lol, 1st one was a 96 parts car, 2nd was a 98 daily driver and third was a 2001 daily driver. He sold the 96 wrecked the 98 and sold the 2001