Greg Matsen | Lehi, The Tree, and The Brass Serpent
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In this episode of the "Ask the Experts Interview Series" the Paul brothers have a discussion with Greg Matsen of @CwicShow about the significance of The Brazen serpent, The Tree of Life, and what we can learn about the current trends of society.
Greg Matsen is the founder of Cwic Media and the host of its primary show - Cwic Show. Cwic Show has over 8 Million views and downloads and is the number one independent Latter-day Saint podcast on culture, news, and gospel topics. Greg ran a large web development and marketing firm representing the vast majority of the Sporting Goods industry and some of the Auto industry in Newport Beach, CA, in the 1990s, then built a Wealth Management Firm in Scottsdale, AZ, which he sold in early 2020 due to health issues. He has studied the scriptures, history, and philosophy for decades and has a vast knowledge of politically woke ideology. He also seeks and develops interfaith relationships
The Stick of Joseph TH-cam channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.
Like, subscribe and follow us on Instagram under the handle of @thestickofjoseph ( / @thestickofjoseph )
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The Paul Brothers are a force! What a great interview! Love what you guys are doing.
We love you, brother! Can’t wait for our next discussion.
And hopefully a round 2 would mean another appearance of that pullover, because that quilted top is on point, Greg. A very good choice by your wardrobe department to match a great conversation.
It may be shallow, but it’s also true.
@@taramalan904 Thanks. I like it. I was hoping I didn't look like a stamped marshmallow. This helps.
Greg, THANK YOU! I want to know how to study and understand the scriptures like you. You are brilliant and full of the spirit and are such a needed voice. I commend you for boldly declaring the gospel and thank you for taking us on such a deep dive.
@@charlottegardenhire6408 Thank you for the kind words. And glad you enjoyed it. Just keep studying!
This is a new era of learning in the Gospel, thanks for leading the way, guys.
I'll wait for the General Authorities to lead in a "new era"!
@@user-zn9xy6gm2e@user-zn9xy6gm2e So very true; we do sustain them as prophets, seers, and revelators.
@@user-zn9xy6gm2e lol dang it, was really hoping to stir up some apostasy with that comment.
Hope you’re having a good time learning along with these guys. Super insightful
For real! So grateful for this beautiful time
@@TheArkisSteady indeed!
Greg has a strong testimony. It calms my spirit, gives me comfort, and his positive attitude and in fluence and knowledge of the Gospel strengthens me! Faith based, knowledge of the Gospel, and his testimony strengthens me, no matter what the opposite side feels, says or does!!!
It is obvious he has spent a lifetime in study.
You know these guys really love the Lord Elohim❤😂🎉😢😮😅
E😢😢
Okay guys, thank yeeeewwww for blowing my mind!😩🤣🤭👍 this is such an amazing discussion, I’m wearing out my “rewind button, it will literally take days to dissect and comprehend 🙏 (remember I’m the Pentecostal/Evangelical with the LDS Missionary son lol 🤭) I do so love how the the Lord works, He is so active and so worthy of praise. For me, by looking at, and studying history I am better able to see the hand of God in our present time. So much is being revealed to us, old men seeing visions young men dreaming dreams. The Gospel message is so incredibly simple yet so infinitely deep. You are giving me a clearer understanding of Gods grand plan Greg is an incredible resource his knowledge blows me away, mostly how he is able to articulate his deep knowledge and apply scripture to scripture to see the deeper connections and meaning🙏 Thank you thank You thank you! Keep up your good work🙏👍 and I’m not even half way through the video 🤭
Don't look too hard at church history... it makes it very difficult to still believe this is the restored church of Jesus Christ. Polygamy, polyandry, blood atonement, mountain meadows, first vision different accounts inc. the one torn out of history and taped back in. The more you read, the more difficult it is to believe! Your point about the gospel message is important, that's the only part that matters, ultimately.
Good point. I've been LDS since my twenties after being raised in catholicism and also baptist. I have a beautiful friendship with Jocob a pentecostal man and we've been friends for 23 years, and we take care of each other..
@@benkenlaude3301
And there’s nothing about the Bible and all of the history of the thousands of churches that follow its teaching that is hard to swallow or understand. Nothing off color nothing too violent nothing scandalous? HMMM…
Greg reminds me of a missionary I met yesterday. And he quoted Romans from the Bible, by memory . I was stunned. I've read the Bible a couple times, the BOM several times. And yet I can't do this. I'll memorize , or try anyway. And still can't do it. And yet he did it with such ease. This proves we are all different. My wife and I were so impressed.
Sir you must be quite young or a new member. As you study the scriptures, His word and law will become written in the fleshy tables of your heart and the Holy Ghost shall bring all things to your remembrance whatsoever is expedient in Him💞
Ah! Christmas came early! My two favorite channels collaborating!! I can’t share this fast enough. THANK YOU for what you both are doing. I can’t listen fast enough, yet 2 hours isn’t long enough. I’m right there with your grandma, only I’m wide awake 😉😂
Agreed
I LOVE THIS! I absolutely adore Greg and I'm so happy you had him on. I always learn something from your guests. I'm old and even though I've been an active member all my life, my spiritual learning has been shallow until the past 5 years. So I'm behind where I should be, but gratefully the Lord doesn't grade on the curve. I believe he is happy to see that I'm trying to catch up. Better late than never and it's what I'm learning from good people and programs like this that helps augment my study and learning.
I'm going into my late 50s. In my younger days, reading and studying scriptures was more relaxed. I believe it now cannot be, as satan is unleashing all he has. These guys are helping us all supplement needed understanding like no time in history. So grateful for Greg and these awesome brothers doing this good work! It's interesting how God has given us these resources when He knows we have to have them. We are all responsible to be scriptorians, which would be hard to do without major discussions like this .
@@intheknow9794 I agree about Satan unleashing all he has. Unfortunately it's evident Joseph and the early church leaders succumbed to that with polygamy, polyandry, mountain meadows, blood atonement, racism etc. and our more recent leaders who set sexist and homophobic doctrines, none of which are scriptural but unfortunately the weakness of man, claimed to be revealed from God.
This is one of the BEST videos full of doctrine and truth ! Thanks to all for the great information, and opinions, that help us stay strong in the current atmosphere in our culture. I look forward to more ! ! !
I agree with you Greg
98 percent light.
You just answered my questions about the Brazen serpent that I have been pondering and struggling with! Ty so much
Love hearing that!
I’m going to have to listen to this with paper and a pen and scriptures for a second and third time. Loved the insight I got about things that are happening in my own life just from listening. So great. Thank you! 🙏
"Thou shall not bear the name of the Lord in any kind of vanity." Great episode.
1:28:48 😂 I stayed! It’s SO good, guys. I watched Greg’s video on this, but clicked this video SO FAST because I wanted more. You all did not disappoint. I’ll have to watch this multiple times, including the 1.5 hr prelude, to digest all of this. Very, VERY interesting stuff! Thanks again!
Thank you thank you
I love Greg Madsen's podcast! I listen to so many, but his is my favorite! I've learned so much listening to his podcast and now I'm learning from you two boys.
It took so long to post here because this video was in my watch later and I finally got around to it. oh my gosh, my mind has just been blown as well. I have never looked at Lehi's dream/images and compared it to Jerusalem and the Mount of Olives etc. What a fabulous discussion. I am so glad you guys started this channel. My mind has been opened so much to so many things and my capacity to think outside the box has been enlarged. Thanks for having Greg on your show and for everything you guys are doing.
Really Love Greg's candor and perspective
Greg has been such a blessing in my life . I use the phrase to “parse it out “ now from Greg . I TOTALLY agree with this spiral of silence situation, We are losing people because We can not talk about serious issues . We are being “unfaithful “ to question ANYTHING and that is just not true , I don’t believe God wants uninformed slaves . Faithful adults like Greg is an example of , CAN and SHOULD exam All things and come to good conclusions .
I agree with this. Unfortunately as I asked honest questions, I was shunned by my local leaders and congregation. There are no suitable answers to polygamy, polyandry, mountain meadows, blood atonement, sexism, racism, homophobia etc etc. Ultimately it comes down to God loves us and if we try to emulate Jesus and love all, we will be saved... unfortunately that love isn't radiated to those who question.
@@benkenlaude3301 I think there ARE answers to many of these questions..I can explain Mountain Meadows easily . People are ALWAYS people regardless of time and place , it is why it is Ok to talk about history etc . I think many people aren’t informed so they shy away from discussions maybe ? God IS love but like Greg talks about He also has laws , if there is NO right and wrong God would cease to exist . Like Christ said Our job is to love God with All our heart which means following His commandments and then love Our neighbor as Ourselves . One day We will have ALL the answers We need if We trust Christ and try to be like Him .
This one is for Jackson. (I hope you get it) I heard a great thought from Alonzo L. Gaskill: "The snake is a curious symbol. In contemporary Christian thinking it is often associated with Satan and temptation. However, originally it symbolized healing, resurrection, and immortality. It was a symbol of Christ long before it was a representation of Satan! Thus, when the devil appeared to Adam and Eve in Eden in the form of, or through the use of, a serpent, he was actually seeking to appear as an 'angel of light' (see 2 Ne 9:9, 2 Cor 11:14, and D&C 128:20). In other words, he chose that symbol because he knew the snake represented the Messiah, and that was what he wished to be viewed as. Curiously, the Hebrew word for Messiah (mashiyakh) totals 358 in gematria. Likewise, the Hebrew word for serpent (nakhash) has the numerical value of 358. Thus, by the gematria employed in Numbers 21, it is confirmed that the serpent lifted up by Moses upon his staff was indeed a type for the Savior, Jesus Christ. Satan had attacked Israel via getting them to worship false gods, such as the cravings of the flesh. But in this miracle, the true Messiah appears, retaking His serpent symbol and offering covenant israel healing and- something only He had the power to give . . . On a related note, the Hebrew word translated as 'serpent' in the Genesis account of the fall is related to the Hebrew word for 'luminous' or 'shining.' thus, some have suggested that the Genesis account should not read 'serpent' but rather 'angel of light.'"
Thanks for your comment. It confirms my experience in reading about the Aaronic priesthood-if it’s important to God guarantee Satan is going to have a counterfeit. He is the master of deception
Where can I find this quote?
Have you seen much of Dan Dan McClellan's stuff? He's awesome and dives deep into Hebrew.
As far as I can tell, the word used for cross in "take up your cross and follow me" in the New Testament (which we now think of only as the T shaped crucifix) also corresponds to the Hebrew words for wood, trees and poles used for execution and public display of malefactors. This is why Peter says that Jesus was "hanged on a tree." It would also tie back to the pole used to lift up the serpent, etc. Some interesting layers in light of the discussion here.
Yes, and who is at that tree? The women. Mary, Mary, and Martha.
I really enjoyed this. My epiphany in the start: Moses borrowed th creation story from the temple and put it in Genesis, not the other way around! 2nd: Our county runs parallel to the Nephites in so many ways. We are going down the same road they did. So many in the church don’t even see it. We know what happened to them. I feel like I’m on a runaway train and can’t get off! “Angels and ministers of grace defend us” (Hamlet, Act 4, Sc. 1). Also, I’ve noticed the ‘Laman was a nice guy; his pain was understandable’ communication, too. Laman tried to murder Nephi a couple of times before they left the valley of Lemuel. He was a proud, violent man, even when he was young! I never thought of him as a Deuteronomist, but that makes so much sense.
Now I understand why Nephi loved Isaiah so much!
Great, testimony building discussion, brethren! Thank you!
Greg is absolutely right about getting into the scriptures more! And dig into them! Way more than consuming the "dark side".
The deeper you get into the scriptures, including the BoM, the more you realise that they don't conform to the church's doctrines. You need to ignore most of the scriptures to make room for today's teachings in the church.
Awesome conversation!!!! So many nuggets of precious truths in this conversation! I didn’t read first time with scriptures opened… I’ll have to watch again and take some notes!!
Compassion = Com (with) passion (suffer). Compassion is to suffer with...not to seek a way to remove the suffering or to find the easy fix.
1:25:04 condescension is love.
This reminds me of the Anti-Nephi-Lehis. I have often pondered on how they could lay down and die, and I always got the sense that it was meant to be a symbol of Christ.
In their situation it was them literally following Christ. They are doing what He did.
That’s also what the early Christians did, even though we don’t have many details of what happened we know it over all. They were so brave that they changed the history of the world.
Guys...who can sleep! This is awesome.
Awesome discussion guys. Great addition to the discussions with Mike Day and David Butler.
If I may add a little bit of feedback. One thing that I see people who have studied things intensely have a tendency to speak of things as if they are of full authority and make statements of fact. Greg states the vision of the tree of life is a temple dream. No room for error. I suggest just add the word “I believe” to the beginning of such statements. Many of you and Greg’s guests use this language which I really appreciate. The one who talked at length about Lehis dream spoke very direct but also with a humility that illustrates “this is the way I see it”. Academia is filled with people who are saying my way or my interpretation is the only way to point of removing the word interpretation.
Good feedback.
Semantics. I came to hear their OPINIONS and I will judge for myself.
I love Greg! Thanks for having him on! He's so knowledgeable! You're all amazing! Thanks for all your podcasts!
I for one, am so grateful for this particular podcast!
You guys blew my mind with this episode, thank you so much for sharing!
Two serpents, two goats, two churches, TWO BLOODLINES. It’s that last one that gets overlooked but is a crucial part of understanding this in its entirety.
Great stuff guys! Really enjoyed the discussion.
This was an amazing video! Thank y'all so much! Also great fireside too! I really enjoyed it!
Love this! @cwicshow is one of my most favorites. This was a great conversation by all of you!
Great job, I learned so much, I've watched it twice and will probably watch it again, thanks
You guys are doing a good work. We love both of your channels. ❤
Thank you for doing these videos. They are opening my understanding!❤
This was so deep. I may have to listen again and take notes. Such a good conversation!
Live for these types of shows! Great stuff!
Such a great discussion!
The confusion starts with the use of Caduceus and Rod of Asclepius. The Caduceus is a symbol of Hermes or Mercury in Greek and Roman mythology. Caduceus symbol is identified with thieves, merchants, and messengers, and Mercury is said to be a patron of thieves and outlaws, not a desirable protector of physicians. The symbol originated when Mercury once attempted to stop a fight between two snakes by throwing his rod at them, whereupon they twined themselves around the rod, and the symbol was born. The Rod of Asclepius belongs to Aesculapius, who was the revered Greek god of healing.
First, you don't know when the concept of the two snakes originated. Obviously, in the scene with the Brazen Serpent and the Fiery Flying Serpent, there are two different types of snakes. One that kills and one that heals. To think that the more than 1,000,000 Children of Israel didn't keep this concept in mind, at least for a long time, is a stretch. I am suggesting that the concept was stifled because of the loss of Christ., then resurrected in scripture in the New Testament and the Book of Mormon.
@@CwicShow I was simply commenting on the origin of the Caduceus symbol. It wasn’t about healing in its original Greek mythos. Just because 2 different cultures used snakes in their mythologies doesn’t mean they meant the same thing. FYI, the snakes that bit the Israelites were normal poisonous snakes not mythological flying serpents that were on fire.
The two symbols between the Moses narrative and the Caduceus myth are entirely unrelated.
@@chriscb on the snakes, I was quoting the Bible. Give me a little more credit here.
@@CwicShow Your interpretation of “fiery serpent” was a bit more literal than I prefer. Have you ever been bitten by a poisonous snake? Or know someone who has? The poisonous effect can cause an extreme burning sensation to the one bitten. Saraph in Hebrew can be used figuratively as well as literally and in the case of Numbers 21 I wouldn’t say the snakes were on fire but rather the effect of the bites felt like a burning sensation to those who were bitten by those snakes. Just because you can find a parallel of a Hebrew word doesn’t mean the word is used in the same literal sense every time. So Seraphim are not the same as the venomous/poisonous snakes that afflicted Israel in Numbers 21:5-9.
@@chriscb in the video I literally make the statement that they are venomous snakes, and make the comparison to the fiery darts which were poisonous darts in Lehi’s Dream. The wings, for example, in Isaiah‘s vision, would be symbolic. Just like many put wings on angels in Christianity.
This was such an excellent discussion. Thank you so much!!!
This was an amazing program. Thank you.
Excellent discussion.. I really learned a lot.. bringing the tree of life into focus in a huge way. thank you.
Love this!!! Great content
Awesome conversation!
Incredible insight on the serpents meanings. So good!!! Thanks guys this was long but real worth it!!!! Love Greg and glad you had him on!!!
A grandma still here! Thank you gor the discussion!
That was awesome! Thanks Greg! And thanks to the Paul brothers. You guys are doing amazing. Im a little jealous of the deep insite you guys have learned through the different guests you've had on.
No need to be jealous you come right along with us! Glad you’re part of the family!
Had to keep turning it back to catch all the gems!
I just wanted to let you guys know that I really appreciate and enjoy your videos, especially the ‘deep dives.’
I watched all of your first video with Dave Butler and can’t wait to see all of the second one, and before him I enjoyed the video with the other guy-(did you call him Mike Day?)
I knew Greg before you guys and always enjoy and appreciate him, his guests and content.
You are right, we do have a great need to discuss these often controversial topics in the Church. Thanks for stepping up and fulfilling that role.
Since the world went exceptionally crazy a few years ago, I’ve felt an urgent need to REALLY learn the scriptures, front and back, inside and out. Your discussions help with that tremendously.
Glad you love to join us! We love you! God bless!
@@thestickofjoseph I hope I heard wrong when you guys said changes to the Book of Mormon were made we may not want to do that if Sea of Galilee and Red Sea are being mistaken because of 250 miles separation. at a few times in history they may have connected as one there might be geological soil layers to support this so Joseph may not have made a mistake translating
Great Video and info !
I loved this so much. Thank you!
This was absolutely awesome!! Love those kind of podcast. I learn to much. Thank you!!!❤
Yes! You are so right. When i go to my husband, I’ve learned to tell him, “I dont want you to solve my problem. I just want you to listen to me as I work things out for myself.”
Thank you so much gentlemen I feel so spiritually fed.
When I listened to this, I felt like I was almost privy to some great knowledge. Thank you so much! I feel enlightened!🥰
Thinking about serpents, this helps me view the incident in Exodus 7 between Moses and Pharaoh, where Aaron's rod becomes a serpent and devours the (rods which became) serpents of Pharaoh's magicians. I am loving this!!
Corrct. In addition, look at Moses’ experience on the Mount before he goes back to Egypt.
@@CwicShow Dan McCllellan (LDS Biblical Scholar) did a recent video and discussed why Moses didn't exist. The scriptures are great but only when they are framed as spiritual fiction vs literal.
@@benkenlaude3301 He's wrong!
@laude3301 Credentials? As if credentials make you God, all truth flows through you. I don't need to provide proof. Can he provide proof? Over 1,000,000 people witnessed Moses at Sinai. Verifiable? Well, those people came to Canaan and passed down the stories of what they saw. Not a few people, over 1,000,000. That account was passed down from parents to children and through scripture for generations. I think the onus is on those who claim Moses didn't exist.
@@CwicShow and your evidence to prove he's wrong is?
You're ultimately being an apologist for a supposed racist, sexist, homophobic God. One day you'll realise that it's a because of a compounding lie and eventually you'll be happier without it!
I’ve learned so much from Greg. Great discussion
Great discussion! Thank you…… I also stayed til the end and did not fall asleep :-)
You are not wrong. This is up there with Dave Butler's marathon. I'm shoked with the last part of the show. Gadiaton Robers are the good guys? Nephi was an opressor? Man, more than ever we need to take care on who we lissen/watch/read. Thanks for your incredible work. Peace!
I love all the topics!! Thanks for helping us understand the scriptures better!!
i love listening to this while working
Has anyone considered that Lucifer took on the image of a serpent as it is a symbol of Christ, it would be a trusted symbol to Adam and Eve. Especially, when you consider Eve's shock that this trusted being would suggest she eat of the fruit. She asks who are you?
Your crazy
@@lindamartinez7006 explain.
Who said the serpent is an imagine of Christ?
@@brg1213 Moses for one.
They talk about this with David Butler on Ward Radio. Satan took on the image of a heavenly being to deceive Adam and Eve
I do like the thoughts given and the one that resonates the strongest id as I am coming back from a long inactivity and have restarted studying the gospels the phase of "Do as I say" is the studying and the "Do as I do" is the living as righteously as I possibly can with the Lord as my guide.
Welcome back!🎉
Your guys interviews are improving. Greg and Brown and other one you mentioned have been top notch and I would suggest many listening would like further long discussions with them on scripture topics. Keep it up gents!
Made me laugh pretty hard " read the chapter heading.... second coming. Ok don't rest that read verse 1" lol oh man that was awesome.
Your audio worked great in this one. Not sure why it didn't with your last one on the Heartland A.I. guest.
I didn’t believe that this would be better than Butler, but it really may have been. Amazing stuff Greg!!!!
Thank you!
Great stuff love what you guys are doing! We hope to get our podcast like this soon.
If you need any help stepping up your game shoot us an email hayden@thestickofjoseph.com
Your thumbnails look great!
Y’all are awesome! Love your content!❤️☀️
Wish I knew what books and authors Greg reads to learn all of this.
I’m the 80 year old grandma who (usually) falls asleep listening, but not this time!!!
I’m a lifetime member but have NEVER learned these things!!!!
I want to learn more.
You don’t get this understanding simply from reading the scriptures, do you???
It’s been a mystery all my life having been to the temple most of my life.
My eyes have been opened to new understanding.
Thank you. Where can I learn more?
Joy is not the fruit of the tree of life. Seriously, this Greg guy isn't as smart as you guys pretend he is. In the book of Revelation, the Tree of Life is mentioned again in the context of the New Jerusalem, where it bears twelve kinds of fruit and yields its fruit every month, as described in Revelation 22:1-2. In this context, the fruit of the Tree of Life symbolizes the promise of eternal life and spiritual nourishment for those who are redeemed and enter into the presence of God.
If you take this from the Book of Mormon, you get the following:
And I answered
him, saying: Yea, it is
the love of God,
which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the
children of men; wherefore it is the most desirable
above all things.
And he spake unto me, saying: Yea, and the
most joyous to the soul. (1 Nephi 11:22-23)
From Scholar Daniel Peterson:
The use of the Hebrew word ashre in this connection-
from the same root (
Man they let anyone on podcasts nowadays!! Just kidding, been a long time watcher of CWIC media. Love Gregs takes on things spiritual and social as well. Hes long been a bastion against the "woke" ideologies of the world. Ive watched this episode twice now. Its filled to the brim with knowledge and wisdom. Would love to have Greg, David Butler, and Mike Day on at the same time.
Love greg matsen and the bros! Wish my husband would listen
Thanks for your sacrifice of time and building slowly the framework of our understanding
Like devouring a delicious steak dinner, this was meaty from beginning to end! Being here in India on a mission, eating literally and figuratively a vegetarian diet, I feasted on these words of Christ. Thanks for the wholely satisfying 2 day meal! One of many takeaways- those who don't want to believe we have sinful natures don't want a Christ to save them. So we are being persecuted for believing in him. Here there are so many anti-conversion laws, and the "Gads" are running their government too. The church is small enough that we sortof fly under the radar and its nothing short of a miracle that we're building a temple here. Projections are 2025 for its completion. American missionary visas are not being issued. We are the last senior couple here and our visa is up in 2 weeks. We are down to 38 missionaries in the Bengaluru mission, only 4 young elders. The Indians are so humble and peaceable and would embrace the gospel much easier if the false traditions of their fathers were not upheld and promoted by their government. When current governments collapse it will be a day of religious liberty in India!
Glad you found it nutritious!! Keep up the good fight elder!
I really appreciate this! It gave me so much insight. Thank you for allowing all the info Greg Matsen spoke of. It opened my eyes in a new way. Especially how its all connected. Plus how we do not have to accept sin.
11:36 - Importance of understanding Lehi's dream and its symbolic meaning
16:37 - Discussion of the deuteronomists, a theocratic party that wanted to flatten the religious hierarchy
20:13 - Symbolism and meaning of the brazen serpent that was removed from the temple
25:54 - The temple drama and Garden of Eden story as visions rather than literal history
32:05 - Exploring the Hebrew word "tissa" and how it relates to bearing burdens, forgiveness, and being born/lifted up
39:58 - Parallels between the Garden of Eden story and Lehi's dream as temple visions
43:00 - Serpent symbolism, fiery serpents, and Christ as the true serpent to look to for healing
52:18 - Lehi's dream represents the doctrine of Christ (condescension, charity, bearing others' burdens) vs. pride/lifting oneself up
1:01:15 - Tree of life vision as a temple vision relating to Christ's condescension
1:05:55 - Bad cultural ideas spreading today vs. good ideas taught in the Book of Mormon
1:13:04 - Why prophets like Lehi and Abinadi were killed for preaching of Christ
1:17:01 - Exploring why Barabbas was chosen over Jesus, relating to political messiahs vs. the doctrine of Christ
1:22:43 - Laman and Lemuel represent those in Jerusalem who rejected Christ and his doctrine
1:29:36 - Modern philosophies focused on liberation from oppressors vs. liberty through Christ and personal responsibility
1:35:39 - A professor applying critical theories to the Book of Mormon, portraying the Gadiantons as victims
1:44:01 - Importance of the Book of Mormon in combating modern philosophies and focusing on Christ
1:51:22 - Importance of recognizing the dividing line between those who believe in Christ's doctrine vs. those who don't
2:09:52 - Difference between liberation (from oppressors/sin) and true liberty through Christ
2:17:43 - The solution to modern problems being too simple (look to Christ) when people want more complicated political fixes
Man I dunno why but Greg was insanely powerful with this lesson. Between DJ and Greg I cannot stop thinking about the Tree!!!
The Book of Mormon is obsessed with the Tree!
Did any of you notice in the old tempel video that after Adam and Eve get kicked out of the garden not befor tjat God the Father sends Peter James and John and Adam/Michael to toss out Lucifer and as he is leaving he grabs the serpent staff off the tree of knolage of good and evil.... and it's the staff Moses and Aaron use to part the sea to turn water to blood to eat the priests serpent staffs and it barfs up the consumed serpents to bite the people so that they are baptized in fire . They were baptized when the sea was parted by water and the mist the spirit. I bet none of you noticed him taking the staff . Genissis 3 15 kjv and I will put eminty between thee and the woman and between they seed and her seed it shall bruse your head and you will bruse his heal .... so Moses brused the head of the staff hitting the rock to make water poor from it . And God in the septulgem Hebrew bibel tells Mosus I didnt give you the staff to ise ot that way I will take it away and kill you with it . And Moses didn't die that day but when he did die it was from the staff biting him in the heal
I great episode, just was introduced to your channel!
Love his definition of sin, it is like how the Givens couple pointed out(all things new) that sin is “Woundedness” not just what we do, but what we experience through this broken wounded world
"Do as I'm doing. Follow, follow Me!" 🎶🎶
What comes to mind when I think of Greg, Jacob Hansen from thoughtful faith, and others who are doing this kind of work, “who knows whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?”
They are promoting a Mormonism which is Pharisaical, outdated, fear based and self-serving to their brand promotion and wallets (however meager). They are the danger the church faces today.
As far as political things go, I like to say, "Think right or wrong...not left or right." This thought came from "Defending Utah" Those who say they are "conservative" need to realize that they can be manipulated too. We all need to follow Christ and stand up for the principles that He stands for including righteous principles of government.
I got in a lot of trouble for bringing up the three titles that President Nelson taught us, and saying that he isn’t just talking about “gay Latter Day Saints” or pronouns in peoples bio, but also if you are a “conservative Latter Day Saint” or “ Des-Nat”. We are to be children of God, children of the Covenant, and disciples of Jesus Christ. Everything else should come after, no matter what side of the political isle you lean
Awesome episodes!! I love listening to you guys and Cwic Media! Uplifting knowledge 👍🏻👍🏻 I also used to like listening to Mormon Stories, but I just totally avoid it now. I can’t stand that Delin wants to make money being a modern-day Korihor. He certainly has a bitter chip on his shoulder. Usually he doesn’t even know what he’s talking about because he doesn’t have the right knowledge of LDS structure! He’ll get his dues!!
I love these discussions.
Fabulous.
I think this discussion did inadvertently perhaps unintentionally bring up the very political nature of the Book of Mormon that we avoid discussing.
Famine for instance did not end until the people destroyed the secret combinations
Alma 48 talks of political power obtained by race baiting.
Kingman and Freeman
And of course the a dominant theme of restoration scripture is that secret combinations are the socio-political order of a society of natural men.
Babylon is a summary of this and it appears that we are required to discern and decide and not part like these things do not exist.
Thus sides are actually chosen. Note the example of the Kingman and Freeman really had two choices.
2:10:18 Libertarion vs Liberty. Love it. Brilliant.
Hallelujah! I was born and raised in CA, where I was considered a conservative, and then I moved to UT and am considered a leftist. 😂. I live the Gospel of Jesus Christ and am extremely grateful for my relationship with the Father and Christ and my testimony of it all.
Thank you for being open to sharing the "taboo" subjects. We need to think about these topics. If you have a testimony, this will all feed it 😁.
This particular podcast intrigued me. Greg showed his depth here on the Gospel doctrine. I agree with most of what was shared here. I must point out that Temple worship is never waisted. we are doing work for those who have passed on. we must not discount the work we are doing for them.
concerning; personally qualifying of many interpretations.
Lehi "Heeded them not" we cannot justify giving place in our minds of viewpoints of apostates. and faithless interpretations. "proving them wrong" or "proving our right by their error" this is a slippery slope. it would be better to Heed them not entirely.
Focus upon the Faithfull words. in which the Spirit can abide you.
I think our time is best used building a foundation of things in the light than of those criticisms. It just brings me down. It’s good to know why people criticize the church so you can have counterpoints . I just don’t think you need to give equal time to both. Greg tried to make that point too. Love your channel
I loved the whole thing, but especially the commentary at the end. People in the church often get focused on secular solutions and political narratives. They forget that Jesus is the answer. The commentary on victimhood is also right on point.
Great discussion. I loved the political discussion at the end. I've known so many right wing Republicans call out the church or try to explain away the churches stance on covid. Look to Christ. It is simple.
There's a great book by an LDS author that shows that there is perfect harmony between the prophetic statements concerning the garden of Eden being in Missouri and the Old Testament account concerning the garden of Eden. It's called Canaan, Babylon, and Egypt A Comparative Theological Analysis on Creation sold by Eborn Books.
Nephi mentions another element to the vision that neither he nor Lehi mention in their initial accounts to his brothers after the visions are over: "And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end." (1 Nephi 15:30) This may also be a connection to the Cherubim and the flaming sword. Because a sword is used to divide and justice is used to divide here as well and it is compared to the brightness of a flaming fire.
Yes. It is exactly the same.
This grandma listened tell the end.
Hadn’t thought of the immigrants that way before. Thank you
Brilliant! Amazing guest! Thanks
When you are a host, let the guest run with it. Stop interrupting and derailing what the guest is trying to say.
Wanted to offer my perspective around the 45 minute mark when you are talking about the serpent. Had a good friend that Christ being represented by a serpent always bothered him because of the Garden of Eden. We are taught in the scriptures things like to be wise as serpents etc. What happened right after Christ talked with Moses? Satan came and said worship me. Satan tries to imitate Christ throughout the scriptures and life in every way that he can. So if Christ is the serpent raised up, why then would Satan not try to come and deceive as a serpent?
I like Greg. A great ENFJ!
I'm split right down the middle on F and T!
So, by way of the brazen serpent, Christ is thrown out of the temple. In my mind, this is in stark contrast to Christ cleansing the temple during his ministry.
I’m really glad you guys addressed the issue of the feathered serpent/flaming serpent. Oh, if you only knew. There are images of serpents and other types of creatures all over the Americas that represent Christ or as you say “a type “.
Thank you Greg, so many insights
The insidious doctrine that Satan first seeded with Eve is what later becomes the teachings of Nehor.
awesome