Not only did he have quick hands and the strength to hold on to rebounds, he had the best court vision and the quickest mind in basketball. We will never see another player with his superb skill set. His long range shooting, ambidexterity, desire to win, dive for loose balls, block shots, run the floor and insane passes made him the best ever.
Bird was always in great shape. He ran before games, shot a hundred or so shots and then worked his ass off to get into position for the game shots. Constant movement.
Bird's fundamentals were impeccable; passing, rebounding, dribbling (for a big man) and scoring. Either hand, rainbows from 3 point land and down low using the glass. Pretty tough to defend all that. Oh, I failed to mention his clutch shots, too.
I agree!! His rainbows are what really gets me. That's a whole different shot and he could pull up ten feet from the basket and arch the shot off the ceiling rafters and make it!
It really is amazing. Bird was tremendous. By this time in January 1988 back problems had started but he just went out there and always gave 100 percent. No matter what. No excuses.
Now that’s what I’m talking about! A winner on both sides of the court! Who else hustles, muscles and finesses you like that? None other than Larry Legend!
The hand eye coordination, quickness and anticipation, just insane. I could only imagine how hard it was to guard him. I remember DJ throwing incredibly fast passes to him, just a, mili-second of daylight, before the defense could even turn around, the ball was already banked off the glass and in, all with Bird not even glancing at the goal.
I only saw Bird live one time in 92 at an Indiana Pacers game. Bird was playing on a broken back, his ankles shot, barely able to jump. He made one pass that I'll never forget. Bird was half-court, received an outlet pass that was too high, he was in the air as he took the ball in one hand, behind his back, bounce-passed it to an instride Keven gamble 20 feet away for a layup. From start to end of play, he never looked at Gamble, his eyes stayed on the other basket the entire play.
Yeah, I can't see it. This is like watching a magic trick. I wish the video quality was better just so I could figure out what happened with this steal. I watched it slowed down, and I've got nothing.
I know. I watched it at least 20 times and still can't figure it out. looked like he made a ball appear in his hands out of thin air, the steal was THAT quick.
All great points One time ML Carr said 90-91 was Birds best season ever and if you think about it he may be onto something. Remember Bird played his last 5 years with crippling injuries that made him about 3/4 the player he was his first 7 years and he was still in 88 he was an MVP cindidate and in the other 3/4 years he was years he was an all star quality player. Hes under rated in that regaurd
Larry,unless he was terribly off and or his back,could score 50 a night if he wanted to.l used to think jordan was a a little bit better than bird ,not after watching him more closely
Fans of today's NBA have to realize that this was an era of the inside game. Bird averaged taking just 2 three point shots per game for his career! Larry looked to pass before shooting and he played to get the entire team involved; frequently changing a short jumper to a pass to a teammate down low while in the air, if he caught the defense with their heads turned.
Between Moses Malones's goofy goggles, Muggsy Bogues's midgetry, and Manute Bol's general cartoonish-ness, the Bullets made for some great entertainment
king fouled bird intentional towards the end but that is a no win situation cause bird aint gonna miss free throws. bird was the best all around baller . and look at all these shots. all from the perimeter. amazing he shot 50% from the field in his career taking perimeter shots most of the time.
@netcap001 W/E - Went off the top of my head. Bird thoroughly dominated Jordan winning all 14 games in 2 years. That somehow matters? In year 3 when Jordan finally broke the streak, Bird kicked his ass by 30 the next night anyhow. And Bird did play sick in the 83 Semis. You think a 60 win team just suddenly got swept and nothing was amiss? Use your brain. And only a certified Jordan jocker would even try to put Jordan's injuries on par with Bird's injuries.
@AdreasTheGreat i did watch magic johnson in 1991 reg. season and playoffs. most notably,the series where he put up an average of 26-10-12. johnsons regular season and playoff averages match up well with many of his averaged from the 80s. for instance,his scoring efficiency in 1991 was better than that in 1988. same as some of the seasons in the 80s,yes. oh btw,woolridge wasnt an all star player.
@phishhead11 . He could use the left side shooting & dribbling as well his left-hand. At that time, speed was the game. You didn't necessarily have to play tough D because you get the long pass to either hit a three bomb or the old fashioned way with the foul and a shot.
@netcap001 Bird played the 1983 series sick (including a 104 fever at one point) cherry picker. Now if Moncrief dominated Bird and beat him 14 times in a row over a 3 or 4 year period you might have a point. But since he didn't, you don't.
@AdreasTheGreat Your making complete sense. I've told this guy such points on many occasions. But just so you know, he's a certified Jordan jocker. He doesn't care about reality.
@RohoicRamz94 I don't know about that. The 89 C's w/o Bird and w/Reggie Lewis elevating his game won 42. Maybe they could've won 50 in any given year. But there's still a huge difference between your run of the mill 50 win team and great teams.
Grant led the league in rebounds in the top 3 both reg season and playoffs...also was a solid post defender and was a decent scorer(better than Rodman), and from 1991 to 1995 was 3rd in FG%. Grant also made all nba defensive 2nd team from 91-95 while with the bulls and Orlando. 1st in the NBA in offensive rating for 91-92 season. Not junk.
@AdreasTheGreat uhh..not quite. jordan had injuries in the finals,his injuries are comparable to worthy's ankle sprain. if you are saying scoring-wise,jordan was better in 1988,yes. however,he improved in a lot of other areas. for instance,the 11+ assist average in the 1991 finals. he didnt do that in 1989,despite playing point guard sometimes in the playoffs.
@AdreasTheGreat here is some perspective: oakley was jordans second option in 1987 and 88. oakley was only the 8th leading scorer for the new york knicks in 1992. i'll give you woolridge,but he left after 1986. jordan lost to the pistons in 1988 with a lineup of what...vincent,corzine,oakley,sellers? that is the same team that would have beaten the lakers AND celtics in 1988,if it wasn't for that phantom call on laimbeer that allowed the lakers to win game 6 in the finals.
@FavreianVengeance They (89cs) had a new coach in Jimmy Rogers as well.Mchale,Parrish,DJ missed over 10 games total and Ainge was traded after 45 games.They still won 42.Bulls on the other hand had its championship starting 5 minus Jordan with the addidtion of Kukoc,Kerr,Longley and Wennington.I think that was the same year Scottie quit on his team.They were 3 time champions prior to that overrated 55 win season without Jordan.
@netcap001 Did I say that Olajuwon averaged less pts? I said that his shooting percent and rebounds were higher. I misread the blocks column. If he averaged a few more pts its b/c he wasn't sharing shots with Sampson and other more superior players. MJ averaged more before Pippen. Does that mean mid 80's Jordan was better than early 90s Jordan? You're arguing mid 90s O was so much better than mid 80s O and there's just no case for it.
@AdreasTheGreat 81 wasnt a surprise. i dont think the lakers would have lost to houston at their full strength. check out johnsons playoff averages in 1981. he was injured that season and missed 45 games(i believe). i dont think the lakers were out of their prime in 1988. detroit should have beaten them that year.
@AdreasTheGreat you are saying johnson had to carry the offensive load in 1991. had johnson scored more points,you would be right but johnson had more points on less shot attempts than in 1987. that equals superior efficiency,and dismantles your arguement. not one playoff series-two. you are talking about bryants regular season numbers. i was talking about magic johnsons playoff numbers,not RS. bryant had a significant drop in 2011 compared to 2010 playoffs..
@AdreasTheGreat lucas was suspended in 1986,he didnt play in the finals(along with three other players). bird didnt face the 1982. the rockets beat the lakers in 1981?for starters, a three game series is hardly anthing to write home about. plus,magic johnson was injured. and you are bringing up the ppg numbers?thank you for clarifying one thing: the celtics were better than the lakers in 1984,considering they had more 11+ ppg scorers. lol
@AdreasTheGreat magic johnson posted his defenders all the time. why?he had a lot of size advantages. i.e being guarded by DJ,or joe dumars. johnson would wisely post up,and he did that in his prime too. you would know this,assuming you know much about basketball like you suggested.
@FavreianVengeance he didnt average more rebounds. he didnt shoot a higher percentage. taking more shots and shooting the same % means he was better. i i was replying to someone who said olajuwon was in his absolute prime in 1986,which isnt true. also take a look at his turnovers compared to assists- he had more turnovers than assists in 1986. he had a better season in 94. he wasnt that better,but still better.
@AdreasTheGreat bird was 2 years older than magic johnson. bird had a significant drop in his numbers. johnson didn't. bird in 1988: 30 ppg, .527% shooting bird in 1990: 24.3 ppg, .473% shooting..and his % kept dropping,so did the ppg average. that is a significant drop in numbers. so magic johnson,with posting up as his only way to score,scored more points on fewer shot attempts in the 1991 playoffs than he did in 1987?incredible.
@AdreasTheGreat Heres what Magic thought about Pippen.. "Take me away from the Lakers and we still have weapons,Take Jordan away from the Bulls and they have NOTHING"...Magic called Pippen nothing in comparison to his teammates on the Lakers.Pippen is overrated.
@netcap001 You're going to say I failed while downgrading the C's defeat of the 84 Lakers? LMAO. Dude the 84 Lakers would have swept every Bulls team and done it while winning every game in double digits.
@netcap001 Im trying to figure out his argument because hes saying the 90s Bulls were weak and played vs weak comp when thats the farthest from the truth.On one hand hes saying Jordans the best then he says Bird is the best too based on the 80s Celtics team sucsess then when you tell him Bird had one of the most dominant talent around they try to find excuses as to why they were average players in comparison to Scottie Pippen.
@AdreasTheGreat let's get something straight:johnson has teammate excuses for 1991,and johnson and the lakers have injury excuses for 1991. but the bulls have none for jordans pulled groin in the 1989 detroit series,or pippen suffering a concussion/playing one minute in the last game. jordan also was injured in 1990(game 1) and pippen had a migraine in the last game.. regardless, the lakers and celtics lost plenty of series that they were not supposed to lose.
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. the bulls played better defense than any of those teams. hardly any team was playing a lick of D in the west-every team was fastbreaking. the 90s fixed that to a certain degree. as for bryant,he was 29-30-31. a player can still be in his prime at that age. averaged 30 ppg in 2009,2010 playoffs and then fell to 22.8 in 2011 playoffs.
@AdreasTheGreat woolridge was a one-dimensional scorer. horace grant was a very good defensive player and rebounder. overall,horace grant made much more impact on teams. for instance,orlando was swept by the pacers in 1994. grant joined that orlando team in 1995,and they defeated indiana in 7. woolridge played for the lakers in 89 and 90,and only played around 20 minutes a game. woolridge wasnt good vs the celtics in 1986-notably a dismal 9-27 shooting in jordans 63 point game.
@AdreasTheGreat 31 is not old. funny how you talked about how well sampson played vs the lakers,before playing the celtics:johnson put up an average of 26-10-12 for a series in 1991,before playing the bulls. why is this so difficult to ascertain?johnson put up very good numbers,use the logic that you used to jump to the conclusion that sampson was well in 1986.
@netcap001 You've used Bird's HOF teammates as an excuse for why Bird would sweep Jordan twice. Jordan had 5 losing seasons in 5 tries w/o Pippen. He's not the GOAT by any stretch. And the Bulls are nowhere near the greatest team.
@AdreasTheGreat 30 ppg to 24.3 and a %5 decrease in fg% is a significant drop for larry. considerding johnson took MORE three pointers,fg% isn't a big deal. johnson had the same efficiency if you round up his points per shot attempt. i've also stated before that magic johnson had more points on less shot attempts than he did in the 1987 playoffs-what about this? magic johnson in 1987-88= 19.6 ppg on 13.8 field goal attempts magic johnson in 1990-91=19.4 ppg on 12.4 shot attempts
@AdreasTheGreat johnson was still in his prime. he wasnt old in 1990 and 1991...well "dominant big guys" is a bit misleading. i was going to bring up the sixers losing to the nets as well. or the celtics losing to the bucks,or getting pushed to 7 games by the 47 win knicks. the lakers got pushed to 7 games by a lot of teams-much of those teams were clearly inferior to the 90s bulls teams,thats why i dont believe it makes sense to say they would have beaten the bulls..
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. bryant struggled in the 2011 playoffs compared to 2010. SEVEN less ppg. roughly half the rebounds and assists. i was comparing the playoffs,not the regular season averages. magic johnson in 1991 playoffs had more points than less shot attempts in 1987 playoffs. that is superior efficiency. also averaged .4 more rebounds and assists. this is more than enough. at least you have a solid case for bird. you have no point whatsoever with johnson.
@AdreasTheGreat bryant had the same stats as his last three years?are you joking?bryant averaged 29.2 ppg in the 2010 playoffs,compared to 22.8 in 2011. i want you to compare the playoffs. so a houston team in its prime was a 1-6 combined vs the lakers in 1990 and 1991?incredible again. for starters,olajuwon played his best basketball in 1994 and 1995. he was in his second season in 1986. olajuwon's 1994 season is better than his 1986 season,not to mention his carrying the team.
@AdreasTheGreat Yea Murphy did not play. Lucas I don't know that he mattered. The Rockets had depth. That really did not matter much. If Olajuwon or Sampson didn't play that'd be much more noteworthy. The main thing ins they had McCray who shot a blistering .588 and pressed Bird on D and Reid who guarded Bird well. Those would've been bigger losses. The C's came within a hair of sweeping the 86 Rockets, a team that crushed the Showtime Lakers. Netcap is just looking for excuses.
@FavreianVengeance Bird had 7 teammates in double figures in his rookie year.That bitch aint turn shit around.He was lucky to be playing for Red Auerbach was always looking to stack his teams up.
@AdreasTheGreat Those 80s teams werent great they were fuckin stacked big difference.If your team is stacked your expected to win if your team is great they overcome missing parts and have great runs to get them into title contention.Lakers/Celtics/76ers stayed in the finals because of depth of team not because of Larry,Doc and Bird.
Anyone who thinks Kobe Bryant is better than Bird knows nothing about basketball...Bird did ALL things well on the floor...There isn't one solitary stat on the board that larry didn't do better than the best that the 21st century has to offer.
@AdreasTheGreat i can give you a breakdown and a comparison of johnsons 1991 playoff stats with other seasons,but this statistic should shut down any talk of johnson being out of prime in 1991 magic johnson in 1987 playoffs=took 271 shots,scored 392 points magic johnson in 1991 playoffs: took 268 shots,scored 411 points. yep..thats correct this should dismantle any talk of johnson being old or injured. im a huge fan of his,but your point was farce.
@FavreianVengeance "The argument that MJ needed better players to win a championship is valid. But that is not what I'm arguing"..Thats the whole argument!
@FavreianVengeance He didnt own the 91 Bulls he owned the Jordan Woolridge Bulls and Woolridge was no more than a decent sixth man on a great team ala his time with the Lakers he was the Bulls second best player but on the Lakers he was like 8th best.
@AdreasTheGreat i think you mean magic johnson wasnt himself at that time. he needed to put up 16 shots to average 17 ppg. detroit should have won that series in 1988. regardless, the sixers beat a hobbled laker team in 1983. why only excuses about the bulls?
@AdreasTheGreat I'm telling you. Netcap chugs 4J (Jug of Jordan Jocking Juice) daily. He doesn't get how good the 86 Rockets are b/c he sees what he wants to see. But the 86 Rockets would have wiped the floor with any Bulls team.
@RohoicRamz94 i dont know what playing weak competition can take away from a teams greatness. if you want to look it that way, the 87 lakers title and the 86 celtics title are as bogus as any of the bulls titles, period.
@AdreasTheGreat Wanna compare 80s teams to 90s teams then you would have to add a sixth man of the year 3 good role players and 2 great players in each starting lineup..example..96 Sonics as a 80s team would look like this. Payton Richmond Schrempf Kemp Ewing(prime) McMillan Barros Perkins Erv.Johnson E.Johsnon. Ricky Pierce Derrick Mckey
@AdreasTheGreat well,the problem with your logic is..you say the 91 lakers were past their prime when they lost to the bulls,i can agree with that notion. the same logic applies to the bulls in the 80s,they weren't as great. you cant possibly consider the 88 bulls the same team. it goes both ways. LA never had a consistent rival out west. that doesnt make them any worse than they were. the best team they beat in 87 before going to the finals had 42 wins...can you say,wtf?
I thought that Muggsy Bogues was comically midget-like in NBA 2K20 due to some game graphical scale glitch but, it turns out, it's totally true to life.
@AdreasTheGreat we've established the point that the number of hall of famers is not a gauge for the quality of teams. oh and for the record, comparing the ppg numbers in the 90s to the 80s does not make sense,considering teams scored much more in the 80s. sampson put up a pathetic 14 ppg on %43 in the 86 finals. if anything,you should admit that the 81 rockets were not good at all-even your stats arguement proves that.
@netcap001 WTF are you talking about? Sampson wasn't injured. And Murphy dealt with injuries during the series. The 86 Rockets beat the Showtime Lakers 4 out of 5 and 2 of 3 in LA. What more do you want? And I didn't call the 86 Rockets great, mererely that they were better than any Bulls team. Don't call that 'great' P-Brain.
@FavreianVengeance Magic yesterday morning"MJ is best and Russell is the best winner..So im guessing that leaves 3rd place tie for Magic and Bird...Exaclty how I have them ranked 1-2-3 Jordan,Magic,Bird!Jordan Bird,Magic..etc!
![จังหวะนี้ - เม้ก อภิสิทธิ์ [ Official MV ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4gQRZCkRyiU/mqdefault.jpg)
LARRY BIRD WAS THE BEST ALL-AROUND PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY.
Not only did he have quick hands and the strength to hold on to rebounds, he had the best court vision and the quickest mind in basketball. We will never see another player with his superb skill set. His long range shooting, ambidexterity, desire to win, dive for loose balls, block shots, run the floor and insane passes made him the best ever.
"Even when he's hurt, he's better than everybody else on the floor." Yeah, that's a great quote about the best to ever lace 'em up. :)
Bird falling after that layup where he clearly hurt his back and then goes down the other end and steals the ball.Simply an amazing player.
Bird was always in great shape. He ran before games, shot a hundred or so shots and then worked his ass off to get into position for the game shots. Constant movement.
Bird's fundamentals were impeccable; passing, rebounding, dribbling (for a big man) and scoring. Either hand, rainbows from 3 point land and down low using the glass. Pretty tough to defend all that. Oh, I failed to mention his clutch shots, too.
I agree!! His rainbows are what really gets me. That's a whole different shot and he could pull up ten feet from the basket and arch the shot off the ceiling rafters and make it!
🐐
It really is amazing. Bird was tremendous. By this time in January 1988 back problems had started but he just went out there and always gave 100 percent. No matter what. No excuses.
Now that’s what I’m talking about! A winner on both sides of the court! Who else hustles, muscles and finesses you like that? None other than Larry Legend!
The hand eye coordination, quickness and anticipation, just insane. I could only imagine how hard it was to guard him. I remember DJ throwing incredibly fast passes to him, just a, mili-second of daylight, before the defense could even turn around, the ball was already banked off the glass and in, all with Bird not even glancing at the goal.
I only saw Bird live one time in 92 at an Indiana Pacers game. Bird was playing on a broken back, his ankles shot, barely able to jump. He made one pass that I'll never forget. Bird was half-court, received an outlet pass that was too high, he was in the air as he took the ball in one hand, behind his back, bounce-passed it to an instride Keven gamble 20 feet away for a layup. From start to end of play, he never looked at Gamble, his eyes stayed on the other basket the entire play.
Very cool! One of my regrets is I never got to see him play in person.
WTF! I keep replaying this clip, but I still can't see how the hell Bird took that ball from Moses. The quickest hands in basketball history: 0:15
I had to slow the replay down and still not sure how that happened !
He swiped at it cat quick with his left hand. Knocked it down and grabbed it.
Unreal
Yeah, I can't see it. This is like watching a magic trick. I wish the video quality was better just so I could figure out what happened with this steal. I watched it slowed down, and I've got nothing.
@5:15 that's why he's a Legend..
The play where Bird makes the basket, gets up slowly then steals the ball classic bird
I know. I watched it at least 20 times and still can't figure it out. looked like he made a ball appear in his hands out of thin air, the steal was THAT quick.
King is one of those players I wish had stayed healthy and avoided injury. He was a baller with a sweet shot and could light it up.
so in athletic yet so good phenomenal
I'm guessing this was the 87-88 season. Two years earlier and the Celtics win the game by 25-30 points.
All great points
One time ML Carr said 90-91 was Birds best season ever and if you think about it he may be onto something. Remember Bird played his last 5 years with crippling injuries that made him about 3/4 the player he was his first 7 years and he was still in 88 he was an MVP cindidate and in the other 3/4 years he was years he was an all star quality player.
Hes under rated in that regaurd
Larry,unless he was terribly off and or his back,could score 50 a night if he wanted to.l used to think jordan was a a little bit better than bird ,not after watching him more closely
Bernard King gave Jordan fits. Bird did wtf he wanted. James worthy even said he would much rather guard MJ than Larry.
Larry Bird was the best all-around player in NBA history.
The 80s were a great time. Even with basketball 🏀 !
At this point Moses had only a small fraction of the will and fire that he once had.
THE GOAT!
Fans of today's NBA have to realize that this was an era of the inside game. Bird averaged taking just 2 three point shots per game for his career! Larry looked to pass before shooting and he played to get the entire team involved; frequently changing a short jumper to a pass to a teammate down low while in the air, if he caught the defense with their heads turned.
Larry Bird was the best basketball player in NBA history.
Between Moses Malones's goofy goggles, Muggsy Bogues's midgetry, and Manute Bol's general cartoonish-ness, the Bullets made for some great entertainment
king fouled bird intentional towards the end but that is a no win situation cause bird aint gonna miss free throws. bird was the best all around baller . and look at all these shots. all from the perimeter. amazing he shot 50% from the field in his career taking perimeter shots most of the time.
@FavreianVengeance The 85-87 Bulls were 06 in the playoffs vs the Celtics and were are you getting 14 straight losses from?
@FavreianVengeance what are the 14 straight losses dates please.
@netcap001 W/E - Went off the top of my head. Bird thoroughly dominated Jordan winning all 14 games in 2 years. That somehow matters? In year 3 when Jordan finally broke the streak, Bird kicked his ass by 30 the next night anyhow. And Bird did play sick in the 83 Semis. You think a 60 win team just suddenly got swept and nothing was amiss? Use your brain. And only a certified Jordan jocker would even try to put Jordan's injuries on par with Bird's injuries.
@4:46 Bird goes down hard against base of hoop - comes back slow and steals the ball -
He surprised everyone - including his teammates, I think 😁
Woolridge is one of the biggest wastes of talent in memory. Too bad, too, cause he could play.
What year is the game from?
4:29 Didn't the guy inbounding the ball bounce it over the OB line before passing it in? And they complained that Bird got all the calls...
good gm
@AdreasTheGreat i did watch magic johnson in 1991 reg. season and playoffs. most notably,the series where he put up an average of 26-10-12. johnsons regular season and playoff averages match up well with many of his averaged from the 80s. for instance,his scoring efficiency in 1991 was better than that in 1988.
same as some of the seasons in the 80s,yes. oh btw,woolridge wasnt an all star player.
@phishhead11 . He could use the left side shooting & dribbling as well his left-hand. At that time, speed was the game. You didn't necessarily have to play tough D because you get the long pass to either hit a three bomb or the old fashioned way with the foul and a shot.
@netcap001 Bird played the 1983 series sick (including a 104 fever at one point) cherry picker. Now if Moncrief dominated Bird and beat him 14 times in a row over a 3 or 4 year period you might have a point. But since he didn't, you don't.
@AdreasTheGreat Your making complete sense. I've told this guy such points on many occasions. But just so you know, he's a certified Jordan jocker. He doesn't care about reality.
@RohoicRamz94 I don't know about that. The 89 C's w/o Bird and w/Reggie Lewis elevating his game won 42. Maybe they could've won 50 in any given year. But there's still a huge difference between your run of the mill 50 win team and great teams.
Grant led the league in rebounds in the top 3 both reg season and playoffs...also was a solid post defender and was a decent scorer(better than Rodman), and from 1991 to 1995 was 3rd in FG%. Grant also made all nba defensive 2nd team from 91-95 while with the bulls and Orlando. 1st in the NBA in offensive rating for 91-92 season. Not junk.
You are talking about the WRONG H. Grant... Horace played w/BULLS,Harvey played w/BULLETS oops, I mean shit WIZARDS in
@AdreasTheGreat uhh..not quite. jordan had injuries in the finals,his injuries are comparable to worthy's ankle sprain.
if you are saying scoring-wise,jordan was better in 1988,yes. however,he improved in a lot of other areas. for instance,the 11+ assist average in the 1991 finals. he didnt do that in 1989,despite playing point guard sometimes in the playoffs.
@RohoicRamz94 There's a huge difference between winning a championship and winning a game ONCE IN A WHILE. Bird owned Jordan.
Preach!
@netcap001 *blocks:3.7 blocked shots,compared to 3.4 in 86.
And he didn't even worry about making a cheap basket to score 50 points.
@AdreasTheGreat here is some perspective: oakley was jordans second option in 1987 and 88. oakley was only the 8th leading scorer for the new york knicks in 1992.
i'll give you woolridge,but he left after 1986. jordan lost to the pistons in 1988 with a lineup of what...vincent,corzine,oakley,sellers? that is the same team that would have beaten the lakers AND celtics in 1988,if it wasn't for that phantom call on laimbeer that allowed the lakers to win game 6 in the finals.
@FavreianVengeance They (89cs) had a new coach in Jimmy Rogers as well.Mchale,Parrish,DJ missed over 10 games total and Ainge was traded after 45 games.They still won 42.Bulls on the other hand had its championship starting 5 minus Jordan with the addidtion of Kukoc,Kerr,Longley and Wennington.I think that was the same year Scottie quit on his team.They were 3 time champions prior to that overrated 55 win season without Jordan.
@netcap001 Did I say that Olajuwon averaged less pts? I said that his shooting percent and rebounds were higher. I misread the blocks column. If he averaged a few more pts its b/c he wasn't sharing shots with Sampson and other more superior players. MJ averaged more before Pippen. Does that mean mid 80's Jordan was better than early 90s Jordan? You're arguing mid 90s O was so much better than mid 80s O and there's just no case for it.
@AdreasTheGreat 81 wasnt a surprise. i dont think the lakers would have lost to houston at their full strength. check out johnsons playoff averages in 1981. he was injured that season and missed 45 games(i believe).
i dont think the lakers were out of their prime in 1988. detroit should have beaten them that year.
@AdreasTheGreat
you are saying johnson had to carry the offensive load in 1991. had johnson scored more points,you would be right but johnson had more points on less shot attempts than in 1987. that equals superior efficiency,and dismantles your arguement.
not one playoff series-two. you are talking about bryants regular season numbers. i was talking about magic johnsons playoff numbers,not RS.
bryant had a significant drop in 2011 compared to 2010 playoffs..
@AdreasTheGreat lucas was suspended in 1986,he didnt play in the finals(along with three other players). bird didnt face the 1982. the rockets beat the lakers in 1981?for starters, a three game series is hardly anthing to write home about. plus,magic johnson was injured. and you are bringing up the ppg numbers?thank you for clarifying one thing: the celtics were better than the lakers in 1984,considering they had more 11+ ppg scorers. lol
GOAT!
@AdreasTheGreat magic johnson posted his defenders all the time. why?he had a lot of size advantages. i.e being guarded by DJ,or joe dumars. johnson would wisely post up,and he did that in his prime too. you would know this,assuming you know much about basketball like you suggested.
@FavreianVengeance he didnt average more rebounds. he didnt shoot a higher percentage. taking more shots and shooting the same % means he was better. i
i was replying to someone who said olajuwon was in his absolute prime in 1986,which isnt true. also take a look at his turnovers compared to assists- he had more turnovers than assists in 1986. he had a better season in 94. he wasnt that better,but still better.
@AdreasTheGreat bird was 2 years older than magic johnson. bird had a significant drop in his numbers. johnson didn't.
bird in 1988: 30 ppg, .527% shooting
bird in 1990: 24.3 ppg, .473% shooting..and his % kept dropping,so did the ppg average.
that is a significant drop in numbers. so magic johnson,with posting up as his only way to score,scored more points on fewer shot attempts in the 1991 playoffs than he did in 1987?incredible.
There have been better scorers. There have been better athletes. But there has never been a better basketball player.
Larry Bird was the best basketball player in NBA history.
Agreed.
The true an ubique goat , larry jor legend Bird!👍👍👍👍
@AdreasTheGreat Heres what Magic thought about Pippen..
"Take me away from the Lakers and we still have weapons,Take Jordan away from the Bulls and they have NOTHING"...Magic called Pippen nothing in comparison to his teammates on the Lakers.Pippen is overrated.
@netcap001 You're going to say I failed while downgrading the C's defeat of the 84 Lakers? LMAO. Dude the 84 Lakers would have swept every Bulls team and done it while winning every game in double digits.
@netcap001 Im trying to figure out his argument because hes saying the 90s Bulls were weak and played vs weak comp when thats the farthest from the truth.On one hand hes saying Jordans the best then he says Bird is the best too based on the 80s Celtics team sucsess then when you tell him Bird had one of the most dominant talent around they try to find excuses as to why they were average players in comparison to Scottie Pippen.
4:55!!
@AdreasTheGreat let's get something straight:johnson has teammate excuses for 1991,and johnson and the lakers have injury excuses for 1991. but the bulls have none for jordans pulled groin in the 1989 detroit series,or pippen suffering a concussion/playing one minute in the last game. jordan also was injured in 1990(game 1) and pippen had a migraine in the last game.. regardless, the lakers and celtics lost plenty of series that they were not supposed to lose.
You didn’t take into account Bird needed double Achilles surgery and had a very bad back
@AdreasTheGreat trivial. he had superior efficiency compared to 1987 playoffs-and I proved it.
@RohoicRamz94 What drove Bird was a large ego and a love for the game.
You people do realize that WASH had "HARVEY" Grant, not "HORACE". He played for CHI.
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. the bulls played better defense than any of those teams. hardly any team was playing a lick of D in the west-every team was fastbreaking. the 90s fixed that to a certain degree.
as for bryant,he was 29-30-31. a player can still be in his prime at that age. averaged 30 ppg in 2009,2010 playoffs and then fell to 22.8 in 2011 playoffs.
@AdreasTheGreat woolridge was a one-dimensional scorer. horace grant was a very good defensive player and rebounder. overall,horace grant made much more impact on teams. for instance,orlando was swept by the pacers in 1994. grant joined that orlando team in 1995,and they defeated indiana in 7. woolridge played for the lakers in 89 and 90,and only played around 20 minutes a game. woolridge wasnt good vs the celtics in 1986-notably a dismal 9-27 shooting in jordans 63 point game.
@AdreasTheGreat 31 is not old. funny how you talked about how well sampson played vs the lakers,before playing the celtics:johnson put up an average of 26-10-12 for a series in 1991,before playing the bulls. why is this so difficult to ascertain?johnson put up very good numbers,use the logic that you used to jump to the conclusion that sampson was well in 1986.
@netcap001 You've used Bird's HOF teammates as an excuse for why Bird would sweep Jordan twice. Jordan had 5 losing seasons in 5 tries w/o Pippen. He's not the GOAT by any stretch. And the Bulls are nowhere near the greatest team.
@MerkinMuffly he didnt steal it exactly, it hit off on moses body and ended up in his hands
@AdreasTheGreat
30 ppg to 24.3 and a %5 decrease in fg% is a significant drop for larry.
considerding johnson took MORE three pointers,fg% isn't a big deal. johnson had the same efficiency if you round up his points per shot attempt.
i've also stated before that magic johnson had more points on less shot attempts than he did in the 1987 playoffs-what about this?
magic johnson in 1987-88= 19.6 ppg on 13.8 field goal attempts
magic johnson in 1990-91=19.4 ppg on 12.4 shot attempts
@AdreasTheGreat johnson was still in his prime. he wasnt old in 1990 and 1991...well "dominant big guys" is a bit misleading. i was going to bring up the sixers losing to the nets as well. or the celtics losing to the bucks,or getting pushed to 7 games by the 47 win knicks. the lakers got pushed to 7 games by a lot of teams-much of those teams were clearly inferior to the 90s bulls teams,thats why i dont believe it makes sense to say they would have beaten the bulls..
@AdreasTheGreat not quite. bryant struggled in the 2011 playoffs compared to 2010. SEVEN less ppg. roughly half the rebounds and assists. i was comparing the playoffs,not the regular season averages.
magic johnson in 1991 playoffs had more points than less shot attempts in 1987 playoffs. that is superior efficiency. also averaged .4 more rebounds and assists. this is more than enough. at least you have a solid case for bird. you have no point whatsoever with johnson.
@giantrobot9000. Dude. Its the Bullets.
@AdreasTheGreat bryant had the same stats as his last three years?are you joking?bryant averaged 29.2 ppg in the 2010 playoffs,compared to 22.8 in 2011. i want you to compare the playoffs. so a houston team in its prime was a 1-6 combined vs the lakers in 1990 and 1991?incredible again.
for starters,olajuwon played his best basketball in 1994 and 1995. he was in his second season in 1986. olajuwon's 1994 season is better than his 1986 season,not to mention his carrying the team.
@AdreasTheGreat Yea Murphy did not play. Lucas I don't know that he mattered. The Rockets had depth. That really did not matter much. If Olajuwon or Sampson didn't play that'd be much more noteworthy. The main thing ins they had McCray who shot a blistering .588 and pressed Bird on D and Reid who guarded Bird well. Those would've been bigger losses. The C's came within a hair of sweeping the 86 Rockets, a team that crushed the Showtime Lakers. Netcap is just looking for excuses.
@FavreianVengeance Bird had 7 teammates in double figures in his rookie year.That bitch aint turn shit around.He was lucky to be playing for Red Auerbach was always looking to stack his teams up.
@AdreasTheGreat Those 80s teams werent great they were fuckin stacked big difference.If your team is stacked your expected to win if your team is great they overcome missing parts and have great runs to get them into title contention.Lakers/Celtics/76ers stayed in the finals because of depth of team not because of Larry,Doc and Bird.
Anyone who thinks Kobe Bryant is better than Bird knows nothing about basketball...Bird did ALL things well on the floor...There isn't one solitary stat on the board that larry didn't do better than the best that the 21st century has to offer.
What do you mean was is
@AdreasTheGreat i can give you a breakdown and a comparison of johnsons 1991 playoff stats with other seasons,but this statistic should shut down any talk of johnson being out of prime in 1991
magic johnson in 1987 playoffs=took 271 shots,scored 392 points
magic johnson in 1991 playoffs: took 268 shots,scored 411 points. yep..thats correct
this should dismantle any talk of johnson being old or injured. im a huge fan of his,but your point was farce.
@FavreianVengeance "The argument that MJ needed better players to win a championship is valid. But that is not what I'm arguing"..Thats the whole argument!
@netcap001 *knee surgery,not injury.
@AdreasTheGreat UNC 84 So numbers dont matter?
@FavreianVengeance He didnt own the 91 Bulls he owned the Jordan Woolridge Bulls and Woolridge was no more than a decent sixth man on a great team ala his time with the Lakers he was the Bulls second best player but on the Lakers he was like 8th best.
@MerkinMuffly he didnt steal it exaclty it hit off on moses body and ended up in his hands
@AdreasTheGreat i think you mean magic johnson wasnt himself at that time. he needed to put up 16 shots to average 17 ppg.
detroit should have won that series in 1988. regardless, the sixers beat a hobbled laker team in 1983. why only excuses about the bulls?
The opponent --- the Washington Generals.
so theres one small as guy on the bullets. and theres there some giagantor tall thin guy
@AdreasTheGreat I'm telling you. Netcap chugs 4J (Jug of Jordan Jocking Juice) daily. He doesn't get how good the 86 Rockets are b/c he sees what he wants to see. But the 86 Rockets would have wiped the floor with any Bulls team.
@FavreianVengeance *pippens rookie year.
@RohoicRamz94 i dont know what playing weak competition can take away from a teams greatness. if you want to look it that way, the 87 lakers title and the 86 celtics title are as bogus as any of the bulls titles, period.
Bird spelled backwards is drib (ble)
@AdreasTheGreat Wanna compare 80s teams to 90s teams then you would have to add a sixth man of the year 3 good role players and 2 great players in each starting lineup..example..96 Sonics as a 80s team would look like this.
Payton
Richmond
Schrempf
Kemp
Ewing(prime)
McMillan
Barros
Perkins
Erv.Johnson
E.Johsnon.
Ricky Pierce
Derrick Mckey
@AdreasTheGreat well,the problem with your logic is..you say the 91 lakers were past their prime when they lost to the bulls,i can agree with that notion. the same logic applies to the bulls in the 80s,they weren't as great. you cant possibly consider the 88 bulls the same team. it goes both ways.
LA never had a consistent rival out west. that doesnt make them any worse than they were. the best team they beat in 87 before going to the finals had 42 wins...can you say,wtf?
@FavreianVengeance No it didnt hit home but if your gonna reply make some sense.Not factoring in teammates in wins and losses is sensless.
I thought that Muggsy Bogues was comically midget-like in NBA 2K20 due to some game graphical scale glitch but, it turns out, it's totally true to life.
@FavreianVengeance fail. not "over a 3 or 4 year period". it wasnt even a 2 year period. you deliberately lied on that one.
@AdreasTheGreat we've established the point that the number of hall of famers is not a gauge for the quality of teams. oh and for the record, comparing the ppg numbers in the 90s to the 80s does not make sense,considering teams scored much more in the 80s.
sampson put up a pathetic 14 ppg on %43 in the 86 finals. if anything,you should admit that the 81 rockets were not good at all-even your stats arguement proves that.
@netcap001 WTF are you talking about? Sampson wasn't injured. And Murphy dealt with injuries during the series. The 86 Rockets beat the Showtime Lakers 4 out of 5 and 2 of 3 in LA. What more do you want? And I didn't call the 86 Rockets great, mererely that they were better than any Bulls team. Don't call that 'great' P-Brain.
@netcap001 *had johnson only scored more points.
@FavreianVengeance Magic yesterday morning"MJ is best and Russell is the best winner..So im guessing that leaves 3rd place tie for Magic and Bird...Exaclty how I have them ranked 1-2-3 Jordan,Magic,Bird!Jordan Bird,Magic..etc!