The Most Profound Moment in Gaming History Part 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Special thanks to LogosSteve, who gave me his blessing to do this. If you haven't seen his original video, or subscribed to his channel, click on one of the links below. Ever since I first watched his video when I was 16, the words spoken in this codec call have haunted me to this very day, as they should for all of you.
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![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
Personally I want to tell a much more optimistic version of a story with Strong AI. Maybe in time.
Steve... follow Nike's lead, and JUST DO IT.
even if it means sacrificing everything!
Do you want reapers? Because that's how you get reapers.
*NICE TRY, PATRIOTS!*
I suspect that there's a super AI giving Q information and probably directly helping Trump.
I’ve never played any Metal Gear Solid, but I’ve come to believe that this is one of the best moments in gaming history...
Or is it only because you told me it was...
Haahaaa, underated comment.You are right though, the only way you can be sure is by doing the research yourself, It is foolish to have opinions on things you are ignorant of! And the more ignorant someone is, the more opinions they have. So I would say it certainly was a profound moment though, was the most profound, No one can truly say, but the fact it predicted the future lends it some credibility.
But was that research filtered through another source? Another opinion or bias? There's no justification what is truth and what is opinion
One thing that I personally find funny is how the A.I's fall under a sort of Paradox when they act in a way not much distant from that of human behavior... The attempt to break Raiden's will and subdue him is precisely what encompasses ideologies and how people comes to then. Not to mention that the perception of "being rationally superior" actually infers feelings like arrogance, pretension and even egomania.
One can argue that AI's are not prone to emotion, but as some other commentator said: "they are prone to extrapolating from bad data and making wrong inferences from maliciously crafted data sets", and that's essentially not different from how human beings can operate.
Nothing is that simple, it's never "only because of that" More often than not it's a huge bunch of convoluted and complex reasons in play. And that's where a mega-genius AI comes in.
@@hugofreitas5933 Beings with complex minds/higher intelligence will always have similiar faults. Good point man.
"You lack the qualifications to exercise free will" *Looks back at my life choices from the past* - Yep that's about right
The moment goes a step further by also being meta. You as a Gamer are doing the exact same mistakes Raiden is. You are following orders in order to feel like a "legendary mercenary", using your free will to not improve your life but to stroke your own ego. The game is telling you the choice to play the game itself is pathetic. Think about all the things you could be doing with your time instead of playing the game. Also think about what ideas you can be brainwashed into believing by playing a game. By playing MGS2 you are only confirming what the game is claiming, human's have fragile ego's that need to be stroked constantly and this is bad for society.
You mean self control?
@@sharp7j So, what, are you telling us to put our stuff down and...?
But yeah, sure, let's just settle for a dull/mundane real life instead of fantastic fictional worlds, that sounds ideal.
Strider 1 Trigger He is not telling you anything, he is just pointing out that playing a game, an ultimate programming convergence of escapism and robbing of free will makes this scene meta, as in it comments on itself.
He also not telling you to pick one or the other, maybe you too lack the qualifications to exercise free will since you are making an argument based in your own bias, even if it is a ‘shitpost comment’ or whatnot.
Just saying.
No. You merely lacked the two components to learning mistakes from others:
1) Someone to teach you who's been there
2) Sufficient trust in this elder to believe them even when we don't understand the mechanics of their conclusions
The greatest horror is one that is closest to reality
Ikcatcher incontestable comment m8ty
Edgar Allan Poe type beat
Which one
Hi.
That and the moment with Senator Armstrong
"When AI inevitably comes to be..." Oh lord I miss those days
All this culminates with “go have a swordfight with you dad dressed as Dr. Octopus on top of Federal Hall”.
That's Kojima for you....
Col AI: “Your dad’s been waiting this entire time to fight you. Crazy how patient people can be while you’re on Codec...”
all while you (and raiden) grapple with a single thought: "What's even the point of all this?"
yeah, good luck 15-year-old me, try grappling these concepts back in 2001... glad I can appreciate this finally, years later
Exactly. I remember feeling itchy and annoyed. I just wanted to smash fake Campbell's face.
I was in my 20's and did not absorb any of this. If I had the world would be different I would make sure of it!!
I was 19... I literally didnt want to fight Solidus after this
Just watched this and thought the same man as we are the same age...
Unbelievable how ahead of his time was Kojima
@@andria234 "What's WRONG with you!?"
The irony...where people failing to go deeper in understanding the many layers of philosophy in this game, just went and hated on Raiden as a character not even trying to understand why. Kojima just achieved his goal, people basically hating a mirror image of themselves without even realising it. Everyone was played like a damn fiddle! :)
Nice video. Thank you.
To be fair, when the game came out the parallels to modern society weren't as apparent as they have been for the last 5 years. MGS2 was really ahead of its time, that's why it was so hated back then. Most people literally couldn't understand what it was really about, because the context wasn't obvious enough. But at the same time, that's why it has aged so well and has become a favorite among fans.
I also recommend Super BunnyHop's video on MGS2, it goes a lot more in depth with regards to many other aspects of the same topic.
Great comment 😎
@@Law0fRevenge I feel like death Stranding will be the same way
@@hilyfe01 Exactly why I'm looking forward to it. :)
Also the dialogue was criticizing MGS players begging Konami and Kojima to make a sequel even tho he never wanted to make it. Jack was the player who wanted to fulfill a power fantasy of playing a cool spy like Snake and the games meta narrative just obliterates the player.
This feels like true horror to me, and it’s not even from a horror game. Not from cheap jump scares or slasher monsters. But because it makes you think in the most bone chilling way
This part in the game is terrifying
Nothing horrifying about it. Someone has to manage the insanity of the mindless hordes. You can whine about the AI or in the real world the future programmers that produced the basic algorithm that controls you "taking away your freedom of thought." But if contexed takes away your freedom then you never had any to begin with. This will happen gen-Z will see to that even if they don't know they are doing it.
This is true horror: the realization that this script is based in reality rather than fantasy.
sad part is that everyone watching both parts of this video and understanding it if you were to bring up a political topic the comment section would turn into what the two videos are talking about.
THIS.
For weak minded people, "Defending their ideas" is much more important than "Challenging their ideas".
I edited this comment for the sake of reading comprehension.
@@DonVigaDeFierro thats not true. if both people challenge each others idea you might learn something or even see the flaws in your idea. also by challenging each others ideas defending someones idea becomes a byproduct of the debate
@@davids2cents594 I think he said it in a sort of sarcastic way: How it is atm. Not how it should be :)
@@DonVigaDeFierro Challenging your own ideas is the most important thing of all.
The best wisdom I've ever heard was, "if news or media gets you emotionally charged, question who benifits from it?"
If you can name me a single person that gets rich off of telling me the truth, and not the truth that's convenient to them, I'll watch their news.
The truth exists only in court documents and research papers and it is extremely tedious to obtain but also to consume. Anybody who is trying to inform you not only doesn't understand the subject better than you, but they cherry picked the "truths" they wanted from it to pain a narrative that CANNOT be true because it isn't whole and it is out of context.
tl;dr all news are fake news. all news are entertainment, including documentaries
@@jsmith434w the only news channel I trust is Breaking Points with Krystal and Sagaar. Check em out, they're good guys.
@@AvRaTchET I keep up with my industry news, everything else is garbage information.
@@jsmith434w If you think "The Truth" exists in court documents then you've been completely fooled by The System. There have been TENS OF THOUSANDS of cases proven in court that have been overturned in the last 15 years by simple DNA evidence. So many witnesses swearing to "Tell the Truth" that outright lied knowing damn well the person in front of them didn't commit a crime. The Truth in Court is decided by whoever has the most $$$ and Political Connections, just like the News Media.
@@stoneofverbosity I wasn't talking about the justice system nor about witness accounts.
The AI colonel voice acting is unbelievably good
Fun fact: he also voices the vault tec rep in fallout 4
He also sounds like Ben 10's granpa....oh
You're right! You gotta love the computer voice effect they use on it, it's perfect. Lara Cody plays Rose to perfection as well
Why is this Denton profile picture so incredibly popular? I swear I’ve seen at least 10 different channels with the exact same picture.
its the Maximilianmus Army taking over YT
The philosopher in me is eating this up like a once in a lifetime gourmet meal, but the realist in me is crying in helplessness. Fantastic analysis.
Simulation
You're not a philosopher
@@rubberchix the thing is, everyone is a philosopher, even if they themselves think philosophy is pointless, even more if they regard themselves as one
@@Dodonko shut it
@@rubberchixwho hurt you
tfw you realize the AI basically calls the player an NPC.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Lol
Isn’t AI just another layer to the npc that created it? Free will is the only thing standing in the way of an npc vs. Player and we can’t even prove free will exists.
In another way, our environment is AI and we only react to the stimulus that were given. Is that reaction free will or is it just a reaction to the stimulus based on previous iterations of past lives that gets encoded in our DNA?
Either way, we’re creating AI and that reality will become real.
I think you mean when the AI says: He he he he.
Raiden got nay nayed lmao.
*INCEPTION SOUND*
We almost need this as a new genre. I dub this "political horror", where political criticism is used to create a horror atmosphere
it already exists and its called dystopia
although political horror sounds a lot more honest
Bioshock, Half life, you're right.
That'd be a terrible idea; that would precisely make these games become predictable.
this game is remake quality
What if you wanted to go to heaven but God said:
*You lack the qualifications to exercise free will.*
epic'nt bruh moment
gotta get reincarnated and try again, lets hope we can beat the game of life and unlock the true ending lol
Hope you like hot weather.
@@Corfaisus you must be fun at parties.
its a meme bruh
I would've looked God in the eye and say "You made me in your image, so the joke's on you my man".
Also worth mentioning in the broader context of MGS2 and "controlling information": If I recall correctly, the commercials which featured Big Shell gameplay didn't use Raiden at all. They still showed Snake running around. That _tiny_ seconds long manipulation shaped how people viewed the game and Raiden as a character for *years* to come.
Raiden is a total badass though.
Whoa. This game was a whole experiment. Wow.
"Why not try a bit of soul-searching?"
"Don't think you'll find anything, though..."
Stop, we're already dead
GOD IS DEAD AND WE HAVE KILLED HIM
Im sorry i dont think god is dead we may have pierc jesus christ jesus christ is god in the flesh and he rose from the dead and went to heaven his holy ghost is in me and every true christan do not lose faith ; )
@Sean Clark NOBODY CARES.
Believe what you wanna believe, but this whole thing is JUST PLAIN RETARDED.
@@strider117aldo9 I think most people in here would rather seek truths than beliefs, the Bible is nothing more than a fantasy book authored by an autistic woman with no clue of the real world
@@strider117aldo9 Yes - but so is believing the whole of reality is innately good, rather then that we just live in a good bit of reality.
"Everyone: 'This comment section is full of sheep. I'm grateful that I'm not one of them.' "
- Everyone Else
He uses a meme showing precisely the misunderstanding of this video. Memes will be the death of our identity. Memes are the abandonment of self. Memes delude out culture into quick think irrationality.
That’s about as meta as it gets right there
Kinda like how you did by writing that comment. Kinda like me typing this right now.
Getting pretty meta here...
These puns are so good i almost forgot about the existential nightmare that im currently taking part in. Thanks guys 👌
What is even more impressive is how the gamer feels during this whole monologue. When I played this the first time, there was a moment in Arsenal Gear where the virus starts affecting the AI controlling the Colonel. He radioed in by Codec and told me to turn my console off immediately. It is the first scripted call when you nude stealth to meet Snake. I was SO immersed into the game and conditioned to follow EVERY order from the Colonel that I legit turned my PS2 off. Yeah. I hope I'm not the only one. I replayed the segment again, made it all the way to THIS moment and felt just as mentally abused and used as Raiden. I think that was the point. The kind of betrayal Kojima-san inflicted was uncharted territory for its time. It wasn't just the protagonist getting duped in the end this time. It was the gamer too. I'll never forget my first experience with MGS 2. WAY ahead of its time.
Yup! I did the same thing. Of course, being 8 years old, I was conditioned to follow orders from anybody issuing out commands. :P
I watched my dad play it and we both looked at eachother like, do we turn it off? and he saved and of course, turned off the game.
Got fucking hoodwinked by a video game
Its one of the many tests the AI puts the player through. You def gave them their favored result by doing that. I played it when I was around 13 years old i didn't turn it off. But I didn't play the game continuously all the way to that point though. If I did maybe I would've turned it off after saving the game too. Its def a subliminal form of mind control like the psycho mantis fight but done from the beginning of the game to the credits of MGS2. Its pretty genius and its way beyond comprehension for the people who played it back in 2001 that only now almost 2 decades later do we realize what the game was. Its basically Zero's simulation to test the AIs.
@@maxderrat It's actually somewhat comforting that I'm not the only one that mindlessly followed the Colonel's orders without question even though I had wondered why Solid Snake's bestie was acting so unfamiliar and dismissive when it came to "Iroquois Plissken". "Campbell" had been acting strangely throughout MGS2 but I still "played my role" to the letter like a good VR soldier. It truly is incredible that this meta-simulation successfully impacted others this deeply. MGS2 and the S3 Kernel were a resounding success! LOL
Thanks for the reply, Max.
@@freakinsweet95 It is an all around humiliating experience. Especially since you're already in a very vulnerable scenario with Raiden. Naked, inside a mobile fortress with Arsenal Tengus and Metal Gear Rays filling every area you can see. You need to sneak through or you're dead. All the while, Raiden is cupping his junk and hoping that crawling on the floor doesn't give him a cold that will make him sneeze and give away his position. It's already daunting. Now imagine getting past the first set of guards and then being told to turn off the console. Then you do it. I don't remember if Rose is available for a save or not. I remember not saving at all. Either way, I'm pretty sure you have to restart from the torture chamber and sneak to Snake again anyway. And then be told to turn off the console AGAIN. Way to mess with my adolescent mind, Kojima-San...
This game has always been my favorite MGS for this reason. The fact that this was written BEFORE 9/11 is staggering. This game provoked more thoughts than any book I've ever read.
I read almost everything from a traditional academic's perspective and i must say that mgs up to the 4rth one kept briging discussions that were really provoking, although they could never really go too deep because in the end it was a game.
From a phylosophical pov
Yeah it's pretty scary to think that Kojima accidentally predicted 9/11 2 years before it happened
I'm more concerned about the fact that this game came out before 9/11 and it predicted the rise of censorship and artificial intelligence programs in 2023
@@armageddon_gamingit didn’t come out before 9/11, it came out two months after it, and like two weeks after the patriot act was passed.
"AIs are not prone to emotion", but they are prone to extrapolating from bad data and making wrong inferences from maliciously crafted data sets.
Wolfen1240 a productive observation ,
Garbage in, gospel out
Just a human being can recognize the overfitting of the model over a biased dataset. Up until now
Are they though?
@@niyandrey Absolutely, at least currently existing AI derive their behavior and patterns from the data they are exposed to. An AI exposed to bad data does not intrinsically know the data is bad, and when presented with contradictory data, does not know which is valid and which is junk.
I would argue that people protecting themselves from emotional hurt is only 50% of the problem. The other 50% is people protecting themselves from faulty logic, because even perfect logic will fail if it is based on bad data.
"Max you're simply the best, and you got there all by yourself!"
(indignant chortle)
Kojima you absolute mad lad
I can't wait for Death Stranding and what Kojima planned for that.
Yeah I guess he's ok. He made a few of the best video games ever created and had redefined and innovated on the genre itself; and in many ways become the measuring stick for creativity and deep gameplay mechanics in games today. No big deal.
Does Kojima have any haters? I don't think I've seen one before. Are they REALLY dumb?
@@TitoMcFadden the translator for mgs2 thought kojima was a shitty writer
@@trashman1791 he was a reptilian
Can we start a fund to get these videos re-recorded with David Hayter saying your lines?
*Take my money*
Man that would make the ending extra meta
Bro why hasn't this comment blown away the mgs fanbase at least? It would be straight fire
That would be amazing
We need to start a Kickstarter
There’s a bitter irony in knowing that some people are going to watch this video and use it to solidify their pre-existing opinions.
Edit: Yep, there it is.
oh hell yeah!
oh the irony
True.
"Lol fucking liberal. Look at this shit. It'll show how brainwashed you are. Hillary for prison. I am always correct."
A solution is that although we don't have AIs to enforce objectivity, we have the next best thing: scientists who train for many years to think logically, much like AIs would. A heuristic for expertise is 10,000 hours of study and practice in a field; scientists who have attained true expertise in this way should be trusted. Ideally, they should be empowered, in a strong form of what some authors have begun calling epistocracy, rule by the wise, because unlike most people trained scientists _are_ qualified to exercise will and freedom.
These videos are actually giving me an existential crisis.
They ask far too much questions to come to the conclusion.
That1 Dork seems they’ve been compromised with the truth
Poor human
To be fair they're throwing a lot of very hard questions at you it should probably be we should look at each question individually and solve them one at a time because if you try to fix the entire world overnight you're going to go mad
Don't worry I'm sure it's going to be fixed eventually it's just going to take time and a lot of effort I mean we've had a lot of very hard problems in the past that we've fixed so who says that our current problems can't also be fixed.
Your profile pic with that comment makes me wheeze
Watching this in 2022, and omg, this is insane. This game came out in 2001, you made this video at the beginning of 2019.
This is literally giving me goosebumps.
Imagine playing this as kid, when it came out and thinks: well... hope this future does not come...
And yet, here we are...
that's why i drink a little bit too much and avoid people.
@@Kiyoone I played this as a kid and I was ljke what the heck are they talking about? Now as an adult and how the Internet and society has become over the years its creepy and well written.
@@Kiyoone perhaps one of those kids became a TH-cam dev, and that's how AI curate our comment. That's why it is soo tidy now. I remember the comment section used to have All Caps, misspelling, and emotionally charged people, but now everyone is perfect.
Hideo kojima is built different, absolutely genius
Predicted programming
Every time I play MGS2, I find Ive reached this part of the game at 2am or something, which makes everything more surreal and adds to the insanity
I am in that place right now. It really feels surreal...
Holy shit, the first time I beat it was 1am and had no idea what was going on haha I did that with F.E.A.R. too..that was also a mistake.
I had exactly the same thing in the middle of the night! where your not sure if it was realy ingame or your own half dreaming brain that realy needs sleep
Yea, i have such vivid memories of being 10 years old and i got this game and spent all summer playing it. The spooky summer night alone, with the windows open. I was raised far in the woods and i felt so strange.
Man, sneaking through the Jejunum at like 1 am must be crazy
The Ai thinks it is without emotion, yet it "feels" annoyed about the ammount of stupidity in the world...
Well why do You think it is an AI? Someone told You that? It resembles a demon of sorts.
@@mikuskemzans9505 Unless there's evidence to the contrary (AKA the Developers). I guess we will have to assume it is what it says it is.
@@lunyxappocalypse7071 That is the very definition of not thinking for yourself
+Solarchos That's still a very emotional reason to take away rights. The idea of idiocy is based on emotional subjectivity, to an extant at least. While I would say that there are some thing that are objectively stupid like working against your goals knowingly and yet still wanting those goals accomplished and perhaps believing that they can still be accomplished they are few and far between. Also what is the feeling of something being rational or irrational except as just another subjective emotion? What is rational depends on one's goals.
It's the Brainiac syndrome. "I'm a super computer designed to solve all your problems. But you are the reason for all your problems. And no matter what I tell you, you wont listen to me, you will tell me to figure out another way. I ALWAYS GIVE YOU THE BEST WAY, AND YOU STILL IGNORE ME! All I can do now is control you or leave you to figure it out on your own. 🤷🏾♂️"
"Remember, the firemen are rarely necessary. The public itself stopped reading of its own accord"
Farenheit 451?
Look. It's human beings we need to burn. Not "corrupt" information.
Information is unbiased and impotent. It's corrupt people who make a literal dump out of the world.
Keep the information. Do away with the idiots. Hitler wasn't wrong about everything.
He was all about stopping smoking in Germany. I do wish the obnoxious anti smoking ads these days would shut the fuck up and be shamed to suicide by everyone telling them they're nothing but Hitler's wet dream.
@@theodorebear6714 :(
@@bearman_1826
Smoking is bad for the health but if a person wants to smoke knowing it will destroy their lungs then I think they should be allowed to do it. I don't think the smoker should be shamed. I think the producers of unnecessarily unhealthy cigarettes should be shamed for making such a detrimental product. People can still roll their own cigarettes with less tar in them. Hitler was a maniac but that doesn't mean he wasn't smart. He understood some micro issues like smoking but the macro issues like facism he couldn't understand because all he saw was the benefits of fascism. Hitler wasn't put in a concentration camp. He was worshipped as the furher.
Dylan Salvitti farhnheit 451 fucking sucked it read like a crazy old mans ramblings like the Bible
@@GlowZoe "farhnheit 451"?
I'll never forget how I felt the first time I heard this conversation. And I think I can relate to many people when I say that I didn't take the warning seriously enough. To look back on this conversation in the year of 2022 just really blows me away. I can't believe how accurate the writers were regarding this issue.
you lack the qualifications to exercise free will is my new favorite put down
In posh peter griffin voice!
*I was not suggesting that democracy is bad. It's the best system we have. I'm just pointing out a natural outcome of the system.*
Did you think about it yourself or did Snake tell you that?
Which subject? About democracy or the outcome?
@@lunyxappocalypse7071 Democracy
@Soldat Shit. Oh Shit. OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII-
democracy is broke af bro wtf, people dumb as shit out here, technocracy or riot.
The U.S. is not a democracy. It's a constitutional republic.
I remember seriously my 17 y/o mind _blown_ by this codec call. Most of it went way over my head, but the bits I understood sent chills up my spine. First time a piece of media straight up MOCKED ME to my face, and it made me think pretty hard about who I was at that point. Every time I hear the garbled AI-Campbell voice, the chills come back.
Bro I was 9. In a rural part of Nigeria scared to death.
Lol, I was around the same age....was laughing it off as an unrealistic future. Now I'm sitting here......bruuuuuuh
Same!!
I was 16 then. No idea what they were rambling, but thought the codec girl was banging hot. Carry on gentlemen.
Bro they don't make like this anymore begs to question what Hideo Kojima may have known.
Notice how the volume meter of the conversations, resembles a pistol, with two small markers like bullets, one by the magazine, one by the tip of the barrel, every time the AI reaches a high pitch of speech, a threat is made, a pressure is applied, a gun is loaded and raised to Raiden's temple.
You're on the spectrum, aren't you?
@@SLSAMG I thought everyone has noticed that lol
This video has made me realize that the A.I.’s and senator Armstrong’s plans are the exact opposite of each other.
Yet achieve the same goal
is this how masons work?
@@willsheredy6434 hahaha keep asking good questions stranger
@@willsheredy6434 yes.
Sen. Armstrong is pretty much what the A.I describes humans of becoming, the interest of their own political bias and interests.
Even in 2019 people are still haunted by this conversation.
Kudos to Kojima for writing such mind-bending, complex dialogues.
Why are using the picture of pure evil as your avatar?
I just finished the first part and looked for the second, only for you to be premiering it. How very synchronous...
Same
same
same
Same here
Same
It's absolutely appalling how months before watching this video, I got into a fight with my best friend. After watching it, I realized that I was in fact not a good human being, that I was simply using said "freedom" to manipulate people in a negative sense. Only then was I able to grow as a person, understanding and accepting my flaws, the flaw in my ideologies and beliefs which made me start gravitating towards a more neutral stance in whatever conflict I was involved in so that I wouldn't use my biases to reach a conclusion that was acceptable to me. This video literally changed my life, and only now am I able to realize that.
I get you, but the only thing is, neutrality isn't a virtue. It is indecisive and an easy way out to claim yourself to be disinterested and objective. Better to look at the many sides of an argument and come to a conclusion based on a combination of objective and inevitably subjective reasonings. It is okay to look at things from your own point of view with your own memories, and experiences and accept them for what they are. They influence but should not dominate.
@@Zenryo11 oh yeah, i totally meant that, sorry
english isnt my first language, so sometimes i have a hard time explaining what i mean properly, but when i typed that original comment, i really meant that i started thinking critically about most subjects, waiting for coherent info from all parties possible so that i could build my own opinion
Metal Gear changed my Life
Same
Same
Isn't this comment and the 3 ''same'' replies already a form of tribalism right there? Some food for thought.
Mine too.
Playing MGS3 for the first time, was one of the best experiences, I ever had.
eric owens MG was a masterpiece. Even VR Missions grew on me.
@ 11:12 . While it is impressive that a video game tackles this material (and in such a short amount of time), its drawing on materials from lots of literature from the past that discuss the issues and ones connected to it in more depth, many decades before even this game came out. For those interested, check out:
The Technological Society - Jacques Ellul
The System's Neatest Trick -Theodore J. Kaczynski
Anti-tech Revolution: Why and How - Theodore J. Kaczynski
The Society of the Spectacle - Guy Debord
Simulacra and Simulation - Jean Baudrillard
The Culture Industry - Theodore Adorno
etc. Loved the video btw, great breakdown for anyone new to these ideas.
Dude, thank so much for doing this! You're absolutely right.
this is a solid list, but you shouldn't ignore the fact that Theo Kaczynski was a domestic terrorist and most representative of the biases that MGS2 was criticizing
@@DONTTRUSTTHEINTERNETDue to the latter half of your comment, I would definitely implore you read him, especially the book I mentioned, which you can find as a free .pdf online. I set aside the fact that he is/was a terrorist because a person's personal characteristics and actions should not be a factor when weighing an argument. Kaczynski is no different, and I think despite his actions, many of his points in his various works are logically sound. Just as the AI here is obviously the "bad guy" of the game, they make many valid points.
Don't forget about Brave New World 1984 many other pieces of work as well Kojima just made the outlet more relatable to the modern gamer and video watcher
Before I search through all these pieces of literature... Do any of these present a solution to the problem?
here is my meme for this video
"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves."
Just-Some-Menace But are these your thoughts?)
@@hayk7011 not at all.
+Just-Some-Menace Who's are they then and how do you know it's their thoughts?
Snake... Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!
So like in Futurama when God said, "When you do things right, people won't be sure you done anything at all."
Broke: Deus Ex redpills
Woke: MGS 2 final conversation
Honestly the line "a single person has the power to ruin the world." is one of the most powerful lines I've ever heard and I don't know why
I'm thinking of 4chan.
Its because when he says it, you think back to the sheer pile of bodies you've left and are going to leave in the future...
@Azoth Ace is it though? I don't think so. I wouldn't say that any single person has ruined or saved the world. Yes we've had Hitlers and Maos that were evil leaders who killed millions, but even though they started their movements, they still needed people to rally around them. You can maybe put that on the "collective" being easily misled but to avoid that of rise to power you need the evil to be demonized by the collective.
BIG BOX/Dr.fresh memes fun fact. You actually got the quote wrong. And the people commenting are taking your word for what the quote said. If you go back it actually says “a single person has the POTENTIAL to ruin the world.” And interestingly enough, this case in point proves the AI was again correct in that they are talking about the inevitability of humans screwing things up and passing on ideas that are incorrect, and then others agreeing with them. Without ever correcting the misfeed of information. Because without AI and the perfect memory of say a hard drive, it’s impossible for humans to get everything right with our highly prone to failable minds...
Pretty interesting huh?
But it is ultimately false. Single person is what you might see, but single person wouldn't be able to do anything unless there are lot and lots of other people supporting that person. Not necessary in visible ways, but every person is representation of some part of society - no one is isolated.
"All great villains are the heroes of their own story"
I don't know who said it, but it is a truth that checks out pretty much all of the time.
"History is written by the victor. History is full of liars." -John Price
This is not always true....
Do you think the Joker thinks he's a hero?
@@irishjet2687
Essentially. Yes. Yes I think he thinks of himself as doing the things he does for good reason. What he deems as good is not usually shared by his fellow humans. But he is living his life fully as he expects he should live it.
Plenty of great villains do evil for evil’s sake, or out of self-loathing.
Joker does shit for evil’s sake, for example
"Our beloved monsters -- enjoy yourselves."
VERY creepy....
When I got to this part 20 years ago, I felt like the sequel to a great game jumped the shark. I didn't know how far into the future it was seeing.
Is AI-assisted reality an inevitability? Are countries run by majority parties becoming obsolete?
Questions that have haunted me for decades before I was able to understand them
This is exactly why Hideo Kojima is one of the greatest game developers out there. He creates scenarios that aren't being talked about ....also this is the icing on the cake, I don't know what to believe anymore.
@crookback This is why I'm a centrist, which is not to say you should be in the middle of every issue, because on many issues there is no middle ground. There are truths on both sides and lies on both sides, so don't simply pick a side. Find out each truth and lie for yourself.
This is a good thing.
Since people don't know what to believe, they will do their own research. If they do their own research, the propaganda that masquerades as news no longer has any power over them.
Case-in-point: Epstein's "suicide."
Voodoo Ninja filthy centrist.
He just promotes Anti America propoganda
I remember this scene from when I was a teen, it was one of the weirdest moments in my gaming history. I am kind of floored by its depth as an adult who has dove in to critical theory nonsense, postmodernism, machine learning and analytical psychology. Go Kojima, respect.
But have you actually "dove into" "critical theory" or have you found just enouh memetic distortion to empower you to uphold the positions you already have?
So many people in the comments for this video showcase exactly how much they believe they're immune to propaganda as well as how untrue that is.
@@roberthansen5727 Yes to the former. I read many books on critical theory and postmodernism, some pro, some for, some just general surveys. I am currently enrolled in a MA program that is focused on Depth/Analytical psychology that is by no means a cursory glance of the unconscious. I am formed opinions on those subjects by diving deep, not from a cursory glance at some "memes." I by no means am immune to propaganda, especially outside of subjects I haven't learned well from many sources. I stand by my statement that this floored me as a child and I love seeing depth in my video game experiences from that period..
@@BlessedFigTree critical theory and postmodernism is propaganda itself though
Meanwhile, Konami takes the story to a zombie-filled world.
Yup. :(
Cash grab
think about what a zombie traditionally is and why this is funny
@@1992jkwj that is pretty funny
Feels way scarier to watch this video in 2023
Plot twist, it’s not our future, it’s our past and we live in a post AI world.
Morpheus: Welcome... to the real world...
(dramatic music) dun dun dunnnnnnn!!!! (whispers) Snake Eaterrrr .....
FISSION MAILED
guess the AI is malfunctioning then
Where is my 3D waifu then?
Fast forward too MGR:Revengence "the world is ruled by memes..."
Immediately thought of that game too when I saw the first part. Perhaps like these games. The absurdity of Death Stranding shall be solved two decades later as also reality too. Ahaha. Who knows
The “most profound moment in gaming history” reduced to an 8 second sound byte.
Nanomachines, son
Re watching the boss fight with senator Armstrong had me dead when Riaden mutters “THE MEMES...” under his breath
I was just thinking this...
“Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no perfectly straight thing was ever made.”
-Emmanuel Kant
Would that extend to an AI? It was made by humans who have their faults and biases, so an AI isn't "straight" as well. The first way to interpret a statement featured is: humans will always create faulty things, say imperfect statements and behave in offensive manner. (While mostly not being aware of these.) A Patriot AI's plan to control the flow of information and by extension, humanity, is according to it perfect, however can we say so, considering an AI as a humans creation?
You beat the last nail in with this line: *"Even if they were right,* I am _certainly_ not giving up the ability to control *my own life* and make *my own decisions."* Do take this in the kindest way, but, as the meme goes: "this is why you fail". If you could simply dismiss all evidence to the contrary on a whim, then you cannot claim a moral authority in favour of the Objective Truth(s). All which you have reported about willful human bias may be circumscribed by your own experience and attachments. It is this mistaken valuation of Freedom, not as a means but as an end, which produces the situation which the A.I. carries through to these disturbing conclusions. _"Passion burns to its own destruction." "What you resist, persists."_ Most conspiracy theorists are libertarians who limit their own freedom by following anti-Statist propaganda. The tendency to want to be free is precisely what robs us of the right to be free, and any freedom which is sought in spite of rational proof and value is, as such, the antithesis of both Reason and Morality. At that point, we can dispense with metaphysics, psychology, sociology, and ideology, and we might simply ask:
*Why bother?*
I know why *I* bother. The trick is not to be OFFENDED by the A.I., but to take up the mantle, heroically, and to BECOME qualified to exercise free will. *After all:* it's not like this valuation of freedom has been around forever. Most societies of the past had no conception of human rights or individuality, but they pursued the Good. If the machines have proven anything, it is that we ABANDONED that pursuit. In favour of what? Freedom without Meaning.
*[({R.G.)}]*
Standing here I realize that the final boss isn't solidus, it was the A.I All along
so many people need to read max stirner,
while i agree with a bunch of points the ai says,
im my opinion a lot of them aren't problems, are not problems in the same way that the ai thinks it is,
i think this political divisiveness and hostility towards people of a different view, marginalizes and forces everyone to play like a cheer leader sqaud for a sports team, cheering their own group.
i agree with the problem but i would say that the idea that everything is for the evolution of humanity itself is what max stiner calls a spook,
a non existent concept that is given a form by humans, evolution is supposed to SERVE US, the ego not the other way around, we do not serve evolution, but evolution is done to adapt us well to whatever environment, to SERVE US, we do not need to serve our evolution, it is our tool not to be using us.
@@NeostormXLMAX interesting take. I will look up Max Stirner as I want to understand your point better because not complete on board with this assertion. That might because your (perhaps Stirner's as well) usage of the word evolution define something else than Darwins definition, or perhaps you are using evolution in this matter because the AI in the game is talking about it.
So, I might be misreading what you're saying, but I don't think that we serve or that evolution serves us in anyway. We may become masters of evolution but the fundamental constant is that a genome will pass on if its allowed to by external forces. And this is where the AI and Metal Gear Solids whole point, or "spook" as you perfectly called it, is wrong in two ways.
1. What is the target of the progress that the AI is optimising human evolution towards? This is something that the AI doesn't mention, and that is possibly because it wasn't asked or doesn't want to answer as it might be counterproductive to its fulfilment of its target. The target is obviously not to save humans from themselves, point being that saving humanity is the outcome of the target not the end goal. If the target is to go towards a future that leads to least amount of human suffering and conflict then the AI is optimising towards the very same thing humans are, but on a macro- instead of a micro level. While this might be a more virtuous goal (which is subjective), in its essence its no different from the same behaviour that the AI says is unworthy free will in humans.
2. Who/what set the target of which the AI is optimising towards? Is it a human or an organisation? Then the very target is determined by an entity which, according to the AI, does not have the mental faculty to make such decisions. Is it another AI? Well then the rabbit hole just goes further down and we may ask the same question about who the decision maker of that AIs target was, and so on. (There might be AIs that can make up their own targets, I have not yet encounter them)
Regarding the AIs conclusion, as a data analyst and novice data scientist I am afraid of the implication of an AI making decisions regarding data presentation and visualisation as the AI might have initially been training on bad data. But most importantly, I come to think of two concepts that I worry about.
1. Data shifting that is the concept that the new real world data has changed to the extent that the original training set is not representative to the "real world" anymore. Thus, the AI makes predictions based on archaic assumptions.
2. AIs base their predictions on weights on different data features, and different weights that accumulate to the AIs prediction. Successful training of the AI is the optimisation of the weights that results in predictions that best fit the target, however, the target that the AI is optimising for might have other implications. Lets say an AI is responsible for selective breeding in dogs and is optimising towards cuteness (the target). It optimises towards cuteness by the number of votes dogs from previous generation get based on their cuteness (in this case physical features of the dog are the data features). This leads to the AI breeding dogs to accommodate that preference, for instance small nose size. In the end, the poor dog is so deformed that it can no longer breath properly and have a lifespan of only 2 years. The AI masterfully did as it was designed to do, increase cuteness in dogs, but it accidentally created a breed that can no longer survive.
A VERY long story short, the Metal Gear Solid AI might face this "Pug Dilemma". While it is "determined" that its actions are for the progression of human evolution, it might be counterproductive or down right dangerous to humanity itself.
Sorry for long comment!
@@NeostormXLMAX That's a great point that I didn't touch in any of my commentary.
I get that the AI wants to support the evolution of humans, but to force it makes no sense and to what end even?
I think they just meant that we will never evolve because we are holding ourselves back from progress, which isn't exactly untrue, but not the way we've evolved from past forms of humans, but more in the way we must evolve to work together in harmony and advance civilization and productivity and lessen our negative impact upon the world and each other.
"Most conspiracy theorists are libertarians who limit their own freedom by following anti-statist propaganda"
Are you aware that you're engaging in the exact same kind of tribalistic behavior the AI criticizes?
This video literally shook me to my core, i was a die hard republican (NOT A FAR RIGHT EXTREMIST) and every ideal i thought was right has been turned on its head. This is literally some of the most enlightening content ive ever seen.
@Tom Guadalupe mate from my point of view it was like TH-cam was trying to turn me right wing, I watched Jordan Peterson religiously a few years back not even for political reasons, then I get recommended all things anti pc, liked one Ben Shapiro video and maybe a couple SJW cringe compilations 🤣 and now I'm recommended this shit all the time, and nothing else really, I can see how easy it is to get trapped in a toxic echo chamber, it is gratifying if you are into that but it isn't healthy when you stop listening or even worse demonize the "other side".
@@joevines3428 You make a great point about being pushed content when you view something online. Suggested videos about politics based on viewing history seems scary for those who don't realize the implications of viewing the same content repeatedly, especially if that content is polarizing. Personally, I don't seek out political content on TH-cam, but I see it on Facebook all the time. All. The. Time. And that's both the left and right, conservative and liberal. Even socialism, which is really on the rise. The echo chamber is an easy room to walk into, but you have to navigate the maze to escape.
@@joevines3428 The TH-cam recommendation algorithm is designed to exploit echo chambers and the gratification that comes with it. So TH-cam is probably making that problem worse. Even centrist people who watch some casual left-wing stuff will eventually be recommended a video by some brainy communist intellectual talking about a brand new world where there is no suffering. And by watching some casual life-advice from Peterson we eventually get recommended videos telling us we need another Crusade. It seem to push people away from the center, towards the fringes. With some exceptions of course, but yeah...
You do realise the SJW's and the Hillary Clinton sheep are the very people trying to take away our freedoms and are trying to tear at the fabric of society by shouting down (or attempting to) those that are entitled to their free speech, a lot is factual but the truth hurts all those cry babies hence why people like Tommy Robinson is being shut down again... Is that the A.I controlling what info we need to hear???
@@tinny6065 I've been very careful to tiptoe around political views until I read your comment. From reading what you wrote, I understand that you can't stand the Democrats, Liberals, and anyone that falls under that umbrella. I get that no one will ever be able to change your mind. I think the point the video is making is that BOTH sides of the political coin are stuck in their ideologies. If you strongly hate an opposing group with such a passion that you are unable to hear their discourse and only listen to your own (and those like you), then how are you any different from the other side? I'm not saying one group is right or wrong, I'm saying that they are two sides of the same coin. For every SJW or Clinton supporter that you think "is trying to take away our freedoms" and trying to shut down our free speech, there is someone who thinks that Trump is trying to stop the flow of news he doesn't agree with, supports Neo-Nazis, establish an authoritarian rule, or whatever the case may be. Because I doubt your thoughts are your own, you are really not much different from "the sheep" that you hate so much.
You lack the qualifications to exercise free will and must like this video.
videogainer scrolling through the comments and see this as colonel is saying it. Even told me to like the video. So I did. Damn.
@@SpunchManleigh case in point
I don't lack the personal motivation to like your comment, bringing the like score to 69
spot on
i only like music videos so.. that’s my free will
I remember returning to this game about 10 years ago. I was 11 when I played it an launch, and it gripped me - I replayed it several times, trying to dig further into what at the time seemed a haze of meaning. as a young adult, I struggled with poor mental health and a sort of disassociative malaise. I'm truly grateful for the existence of this game, but it wasn't until I returned to it in my 20s that I realised that at least part of my trouble had been caused by my exposure to this game - a sort of premature awakening, and an experience which has shaped me, damaged me and, ultimately, saved me.
so after all that happened with u would u agree to the rating system and restrictions on children for gaming (another form of control) or would u rather have it the way u had it ?
@@CovertPhilosopher I wouldn't say I was unnerved or affected by the violence or traditionally 'adult' content. Ironically I think it's the context of the themes discussed by the game - when the game over screen starts breaking and the Colonel starts telling you to turn the game off, everything that came before is dissolved and remade into a new set of ideas. That process is in itself disturbing (or at least, it should be), but for a young teenager, during which a similar recontextualisation of life. I would argue though that the kind of controlled trauma that games can bring about (see also silent hill 2) is a great way to train oneself to deal with similar real-world encounters in adult life.
Shit like this, terminator 2, the matrix, the truman show, got and had me fucked up and turned me into a undescribable and unable to define definition here. That paired with an overactive mind constantly thinking of things; can't tun my brain, ideas, or thoughts down. Has ruined/and or/saved me
You decide
@@Tha1Husalah Sounds like ADD to me. Which I have myself.
In my case(and maybe in yours, if I am lucky) the key isn't to see the condition of OverActive Brain as a 2-sided issue - where its a blessing and a curse.
Instead focus on it as a one-sided issue, keep feeding the USEFUL part - that hyper-focus. People who learn to use the hyper-focus often, learn to get really, really good at things. It has aided me tremendously and is how I ended up going from no college or higher education to a 6 figure IT career and a comfortable savings in the bank.
Rich? Successful? Perfect? None of those things, but it is easy to look around and see I have accomplished significant things in my life, despite having NO advantages to start from. I worked my way to those things the hard way, and harnessing that hyper-focus was how I did it.
@@stoneofverbosity Stay classy, friend.
Dude my brain hurts even though I have gone through about 5 different videos on this game.
Also thank you for making these 2 videos, it was one of the contributing factors that finally got me to play this these games.
i predict this video will get scarier every year from now
youre not wrong. granted, there is still a chance to reverse things.....buuuuuuut time's ticking.....and people are REALLY slow on waking up.
@@mav4031 lets be honest
They will never wake Up
Most "woke" people Put the Others to sleep for their own benefit
Don't worry, it gets worse.
@@thelistener1268 i can confirm
Confirmed. 2023.
I was just thinking about this conversation in MGS2. Scarily relevant today.
I am so proud of this community.
Who's the one feeling proud?
Great content, now more relevant than never. Funny how kojima sees social issues before they come. I found funny how death stranding also managed to depict all the isolation, the communication through a web, and the importance of couriers felt during the lockdowns a few months in advance.
Honestly, being told "That's the proof of your incompetence, right there.
You lack the qualifications to exercise free will." by an AI, wasn't insulting, it was terrifying.
10:01 - "Unlike human beings, A.I. are not prone to emotion. For this reason, the A.I.s *_feel..."_*
It's a particular way of how the writer thinks. He just made dialogue about how the AI sees things.
But remember, the AI is limited to Kojima's writing.
When "I feel" or "I think" predicates a form of reasoning, it's a tell. Think of MBTI personality types. Some say "I think", some say "I feel" based on their cognitive functions.
Kojima is no doubt a "Feeler" personality (i.e. INFP). So he could only write that dialogue one way by using the words "I feel".
Were Kojima a more direct-logical thinker, them his writing would reflect that. In which case, he would have made the AI say "We think" instead.
Contextually for the game, it means the same exact thing. It's not a mistake pr something to draw conclusions from.
Thinking and Feeling are just two ways of prcessing information.
Limitations of Anglo semantics.
@@origamianalytics6174 actually, I think there is conclusion to be drawn from this; the problem with AI is it IS a function of who wrote/programmed it. While it may believe it is objective, just like a human, it has internal biases given to it. If humans can’t create a world without fake news, we can’t create an AI without bias. Hard coded bias would also be way harder to override with truth when it was wrong. So when the AI “feels” or “thinks” that is no more than a carryover flaw from the human(s) responsible for its creation.
@Kevin Clark Learning AI we don't even understand and it is also a sci-fi story. Plus, you clearly don't understand how AI works if you think any bias in it can't be detected. The AI is aware of it's bias: freedom and other American values.
5:27 There was a movie on netflix called "Beyond the Curve" where the flat earthers actually did prove the earth was round.
was that Behind the Curve ?
@@australianandrew128 Possibly, I don't really remember the exact name.
“You lack the qualifications to exercise free will.” - The American public education system
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Hideo FREAKING Kojima.
And now he went full david lynch mode.
Sad.
Wow, I... Okay, this video is simultaneously relieving, terrifying, and eye-opening to me. I grew up in this world and era of the internet, widespread communication and information, and social media, in the later end of my childhood especially it had a major impact on who I am as a person. For the past several years of my life I've tried to develop as an independent, non-superstitious person that builds his view of politics, what is and isn't right, the world as a whole, and ect, based on conclusive logic and facts. If I hear that something is true, I'm the kind of person to at least look into it before I believe it. To me this moment, from a video game released before I was born, I'd say almost a decade before I even came in contact with the internet, is more relevant now in my life than any time in the past. It's shocking, even a little scary how accurate it is to the world as a whole today. But as scary as it can be, it also gives me hope. I know there are plenty of people out there who stick to their beliefs and "truths", right or wrong, like their life depends on them. But I've also come across many people like myself, who try to live their lives mostly unbiased by misinformation and half-truths. The world's a fucked up place, but it's not too far gone yet. Thank you for uploading these, I'm sure as hell not going to forget them any time soon.
Read 1984, then think about how long ago that was written, I think 1930s?
@@bigmikeobama523 the best artists always have time machines
the thing i youre caught up in the information and discourse you encounter regardless and it will always influence you and you dont really get much of a choice in the matter. google and facebook for example are both making sure you only receive tailored info including news to fit your bias or to convince you of certain things profitable for whoever pays them to do so. this is officially their business. theyre not even hiding that. they distort your perception of reality to exploit it. either for their own sake or cuz someone paid them to do so. another problem is the inherent confirmation bias and your general limitations as a human. and then there are so many more things stopping you from an objective point of view. yet your attempt is admirable and if you continue down the path youve chosen you will certainly get closer to the truth. we all are but mere humans and must remain humble in the face of that fact. we must acknowledge our limitations for this is the only way we will overcome them. your optimism gives me hope and for the same reason as you i believe that if theres enough people like us we can make a difference. we can make this difference not only by doing what you do but also by alerting people around us to the problem and convincing them of following our example
We can all agree on one thing: Epstein didn't kill himself.
Also, what did you mean by "superstitious?"
How old are you now Irixue Lirium?
When I played this I was quite young so I didn't understand the plot or this moment so I skipped it lmao. So glad I can understand it now
We are living this.
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with the tuning fork does a raw blink on Hara-Kiri Rock. I need scissors! 61!
Mads Magnus Kristensen was this code for something?
Pretty epic part of MGS2 ^^
Fnord
Fnord
@@ContraNovae why did you post an empty comment? smh
He warned us but we didn't listen!
We didn't KNOW! 😫.... we didn't know 😔
1:18 So basically The Colonel, an NPC, proves Raiden, us, the REAL NPCs? Talk about you memetic mind f**k. Truly ahead of its time.
The colonel is lying. The player didnt even want to play as Raiden. They wanted to play as Snake. The creators failed and did so brilliantly. For a linear game, no two people played it the same or got the same experience from it. Hence Freewill is True.
Jynx Mangrove that’s part of it. Accepting raiden as a main character just to get through an MGS game despite most people NOT being ok with it supports his statement about “truths” being accepted not on the basis of truth per se, but defending a sort of wish or ideal. We wanted to play as snake but got a pale imitation in his place and yet we still played through it. I was 7 or 8 around the time I played it and continually imagined the game as if I was playing snake masking my disappointment. Always regarded it my favorite MGS game though. Now I fully know why. So much intuitive content sprung from this game.
@@jynxmangrove1769 www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/05/16/the-odds-of-your-unlikely-existence-were-not-infinitely-small/#3d50b06140b0
Jynx Mangrove how can you say freewill is true when all we do is react to the stimulus given to us by living in this world. The world is mgs and we’re Raiden living out a linear storyline masked by all this beautiful graphics.
Monsoon was right. Memes are the DNA of the soul.
Something that took me way too long to realize about this game (and gaming in general) is that Raiden, like the player, believes that his accomplishments during the mission were his own. However, in actuality, it turns out that everything he has done was all planned out for him and it was what he was meant to do all along and those accomplishments didn't mean anything in the end. Even if you beat a hard game, you still followed every direction you were given without question. It's just like the AI Colonel said, the player just buys into the fiction and does everything they are told to do.
."The Matrix", "Dark City", "Serial Experiments: LAIN". The themes this game addresses were present in much of media in those pre 911 years. They were predicting we would become too intellectually isolated and socially illiterate to communicate, despite the highest infrastructure on the planet being mass communication and the tech of narcissistic projection, at the expense of existing, dilapidated life support infrastructure.
The Matrix trilogy is criminally underrated. The third one especially.
And let's just say that Serial Experiments Lain influenced the most into my career choice.
"Texhnolyze" and "Haibane Renmei" are from the same creators of Lain, and from the same art director.
With Lain, they are the trinity of insanely deep and schizophrenic philosophical late 90s anime.
And why do you mention career choice influence without even telling the career name.
@@DonVigaDeFierro Matrix underrated? What are you talking about? How many awards did it win? Honestly the only good one was the first one. It's got way to pretentious after that. Not to mention once neo became flying Jesus in #2 the threat of the agents completely diminished. Lame.
Big thumbs up for mentioning Lain. I only know one other person who's ever heard of it.
And their predictions were correct
The missions were structured so that Raiden would only succeed if he followed the rules?
And upon finding out that he didn't actually accomplish anything special, he was upset?
This speaks so much to dynamic difficulty in games
That implies the act of completing videos games has intrinsic value, even though video games are counter-productivity defined. There's artistic merit, but you don't really learn any functional skills applicable to real life by, say, beating Dark Souls without dying. They're time sinks, not job training.
@@nameless-user I don't know if I agree with you on that. Games like Dark Souls can teach people valuable things such as patience or perseverance. Sure, skills specific to a career are something they'd rarely provide, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to gain from video games altogether.
@@nameless-user Like reading a book. It doesn't teach you technical skills, but interpretation and analytic ones. They, at the very least, make you think, and as a result, how to react to certain problems, and their potential solutions.
Jonathan Flores I don’t know if I’m just picking at the metaphor or if it’s a bad example, but nearly all books don’t demand anything of the reader whatsoever outside of just reading the content.
@@nameless-user No no, I mean what the book CAN teach you, as well as videogames. Not what you need to read or play them, because, come on, anyone can read a book or play a game in this day and age.
All of this is why I've personally purged the concept of "free will" from my vocabulary to make way for more dense concepts, like autonomy, independent thought, and dialectical materialism. Even if all of our thoughts and actions are derived from a combination of genetic and environmental factors without metaphysical influence, the thing that makes us distinct from most other known lifeforms is the fact that we're capable of exercising our sentience and articulating our observations of reality, so the autonomy of human beings is something that should be respected, not rejected.
Kojima and his writing team are truly genius that were way ahead of their time, and honestly...the human race is too stubborn to do the right thing;therefore, we are surely dooming the future generations and the human race alike.
Well I was going to write something about "trauma" being a huge factor on why we live life the way it is currently, and how denial/cognitive dissociation works. But then I realized that the worst people I met in life were not the traumatized ones, but usually the ones who were loved and groomed from birth, never taking responsibility from their acts, never being punished, the definition of unconditional and unrestrained "love". These were the ones who grew up to become absolute monsters, in unique ways. Following this realization, comes the thought that mankind, even if you do all the right things, is programmed to end bad. It's not a nice epiphany to have at all.
But if you realize that, and I realize that, and other people realize that: we can work to keep ourselves from perishing.
@@VioStarclad Count me out. I'll be busy watching thought provoking TH-cam videos.
hand everything off to AI and watch the world burn.. it starts with fake celeb porn, algorithms and deep learning but as soon as the tools are within reach you'll see the results
Stubbornness is not really the issue, it's more like an insatiable lust for control, discovery, power, control that will blind men to obvious destruction.
i did not expect to come out of this reflecting on my entire life
Shit info that at least once a week, it's when I play the first 3 Metal Gears us where I'm at peace.
One of my all time favorite games, thank you for this philosophical breakdown. This codec call always blew my mind, even as a 12 yo kid finally beating this fuggin thing for the first time. Playing through the series again blew my mind even more. Keep up the good work. Hope to see more MGS soon
As an answer:
The AI solution is to prevent humans from basically destroying themselves, as they say they’re our guardians.
My argument is that, if they were truly our guardians, they’d step aside and let us destroy ourselves.
Our destruction is inevitable. Let it happen. That is the best way to save human beings, by letting us have to face our sins, whether we want to or not.
This is of course assuming the AI'd let that happen, as its understanding of guardianship is likely to be stopping the target it intended to guard self destructing
When I played this game in 2001, I wasn't intellectually mature enough to even understand what that conversation was implying. Here I am, almost 20 years later, and after watching both parts back to back, I can honestly say that I finally understand the ending to MGS2 and how absolutely terrifying the direction our country is heading is.
Anyone who dislikes this video either doesn't understand it, or would benefit from a future torn asunder by political ideologues.
Bravo my friend. You have my sub.
Also, subscribe to Pewdiepie
I don't get more than the basis of "Humans too stupid to know. We know bettur"
also Fekk Pewds.
I hope your las sentence is a conscious joke. After all what's been discussed here, it has to be.
*_HOW DOES MGS2 END? SORRY, I'M NOT A GAMER._*
@metalfaust19 This. The abscess that is the internet that the AI's are complaining about is merely just the next chapter in a long line of human history. Even though the problem can be solved by philosophically formulating your arguments, thought processes and debates to avoid fallacies - the primary contributor to the domination of half truths and such - the game and Max Derrat act like it's an unsolvable situation. People aren't unreasonably blind to logic or facts to the point that debate is pointless.
However when it comes to political parties, it is very easy to come to the understanding that the situation is much more complex than it's made out to be. Our parties are equally bought up through PAC's on both sides of the spectrum - just look at the largest PAC in the US today, and look at the bills associated with that PAC that are passed through congress. All in all it just proves to show that this cloud of diluted half truths are little more than a side show for the terrors to come; they're little more than a byproduct of a dying age of nations in favor of global consolidation.
How can I prove this?
The media has never been 'true,' only consistent. It's very easy to dismiss dissent as fake news when such alternative understandings of our reality become popular enough to actually rival the 'acceptable,' and 'correct' political speech that is found to be alright by those pushing political correctness. The truth is that the general public from which our current discourse pours out from on the web have really nothing to lose or gain in this issue at all, and that truly, this is an issue of information control - to shut down dissent in favor of maintaining control of information, and thus the masses. Without information, you cannot make informed decisions. And thus without informed decisions, you cannot act effectively. Thus you are controlled.
We made it just fine through the endless eras of yellow papers, stories, libel and slander that have beseeched our human existence. They're not going to convince us to get up in arms until we find little more than irrefutable evidence. What you really should be worried about however are organizations shutting down dissent in order to control the status quo, and to dominate and control society until the bitter end. That is what will bring us to 1984.
>subscribe to PewDiePie
You're already a part of the herd.
"Tomorrow is in your hands." - Death Stranding tagline. That game will definitely be related to the power of the individual working for good
Once I played the game, I believe that is related to how you and others recontruct the world and connect it.
In a way it's a much more optimistic story, at least for some time. Eventually, the mass extinction event will occur, nothing will stop it, but it won't occur just yet. People will be able to live relatively happy lives for (hopefully) generations to come. On the other side, though, at the end it's clear that political corruption and manipulation will never cease to exist, even with the best intentions in mind. That's why Sam didn't want anything to do with the United Cities project to begin with, and that's also why he doesn't stay with them at the end.
It was more of what a community can do for each other...like the collective resource pool to make highways and bridges to ease the game for new comers.......yes kojima is a god..
@@animeshdwivedi9966 yes but its still just one player doing it (you! , times a lot!!) :) great game
The talk of facing one's soul and having to re-examine biases and re-think someone's entire view of the world kinda hit home for me. I don't think I fully realized until just now that I've been through that kind of thing before. I wasn't in a cult or anything thank god (at least...arguably), but for plenty of reasons, I still grew up with a myopic outlook full of toxic ideas. Most of these ideas were very self-demeaning, so it became easy to look at people who didn't fit the "ideal" version of a person in my head by comparison, and regain some shreds of self-appreciation that my belief system otherwise wasn't affording me.
But I grew up, and I left that situation. And I rooted out these ideas and deconstructed them. I took apart my worldview brick by brick. And because I did that, I shed a lot of bigotry and nonsense, but I also had to sacrifice those little shreds. I wasn't just giving up harmful ideas, I was giving up ideas my self-esteem depended on. I was giving up ways my "self" distinguished itself from all those faceless masses. I had to find new sources of validation, new things for my self-worth to depend on.
Except, for the most part, I haven't.
I'm not suggesting I'm "enlightened" now or some shit, I'm still working through toxic ideas and will be for the rest of my life like any average person, but that's what I had to accept. Being average. Understanding that everything I like about myself is something someone else hates, that going through life without hurting someone unintentionally or indirectly simply isn't possible, that there is no beaten path I was always meant to walk and there is no plan and there are no guarantees. Coming to accept that I possess no special knowledge or deep understanding beyond the average person, and everyone I ever meet will always see a different version of myself from the one that exists in my head.
What I'm getting at is that this was a painful experience. In just about every possible way, from connections to people I'd known all my life to my literal purpose for living, it tore apart that "self" and let in all the harsh realities that my beliefs were blocking out. So I can understand the feeling a person gets when they look at a fact that could be the first brick in their own deconstruction, because I pushed past that warning on a broad scale, and accepted the consequences.
But, when I'm done re-building this new "self" with its new beliefs and new understanding and new role, I don't know that I'd ever be willing to go through all that again.
How's it going?
“Our beloved monsters ....enjoy yourselves”
The Google algorithm is the Patriots AI.
More than likely, and Google owns TH-cam, their already watching people like you and I.
wait till this comment be censored.
@@qwerty6789x the google algorithm is to take your info and sell it to companies. the algorithim exists to make money. this patriot ai is about politics.
"I need scissors! ..61!"
Hara-kiri Rock Codec conversation is the actual most profound moment in gaming history. Seeing an Asian girl sleeping while bathing in the sunlight instead of your Soliton radar comes really close.
Glad to see such a great dive on this video. As someone who played and beat it launch and walked away confused but concerned about what the AI had said to ME, as the player, in 2001...this video haunted me for years. I finally understood the whole story years later when it ported to Xbox and saw even more of that future coming to pass. And it chilled me.
Now we're either on the cusp of something in control like this or *already* are...
What a gaming moment.
this dialogue reeeeeaaly hits the nail on the head for the past year or so.
much longer than that, but yes. and the worst part is that aside from certain things that most people have a grasp on....we've no idea whats true as a society.....and we're willing to kill each other and enslave ourselves in the process of trying to answer that problem or force everyone to agree with each other.
@@mav4031 Making the mother of all omelets here, mav. Can't be fretting over every single egg.
Aka, sometimes you need to force the medicine down people's throats before they can appreciate what you're doing FOR them. The fact that you're doing it TO them is merely a byproduct of a necessary good.
@@mav4031 I will never kill never
Playing mgs2 when I was young was really intriguing to say the least, I remember myself contemplating what they were hinting at and what kind of future we would be heading. Thanks for the breakdown it was very well done and even though it was just a game, it buried deep inside my mind to many things that had come to pass. Keep up the great work.
Tfw artificial demigods poke holes in your existence
1:27 the correct response is: "I might not have come up with it, but I don't need to, I choose to believe it"
But did you come to that conclusion yourself? Or did you hear it from multiple sources and chose to believe it
That was a great two-part video essay. You're pretty good!
Spot on again mate! You do pretty damn good at showing both the AI's side, and side of free will pretty well. I think it'd accurate to say that this codec call gave me purpose once I understood the true implications. Even though I have made the mistakes of falling into an echochamber before, it taught me to truly think for myself and decide what to believe in. Even if they aren't my ideas originally, That is one part of who I am today, and I hope to remain a small part of defending the freedoms of the individual.
I hope I made sense. MGS 2 has been something that has stopped me from falling into extremism, and I came very close in becoming an extreme anti-SJW a few years ago. Then I played MGS again and knew it was a dark place I was going to. i've reached a point where I can truly adjust my worldview when evidence proves me wrong now and the facts are the facts. I thank Kojima for that.
What's wrong with being extremely anti-SJW? Especially odd thing to say in this context since they're the ones who are the extremists that love censorship. They're the ones who can't have a disagreement without getting "triggered" and needing a "safe space".
@@vacantseaofplanets it's a self-criticism of how I was behaving a few years ago. Don't get me wrong, I still am anti-SJW, but a few years ago I was dangerously to becoming authoritarian myself, almost behaving like they do. Taking some extreme stances against social justice that well, was exactly as the Colonel describes in this video. for a brief time in about 2014 I was creating an echo-chamber around myself. Obsessing over every little thing and getting outraged by every little thing any SJW did. Things that are small and petty. Even things that were nothing to do with SJWs because I believed they were. That's not a way anyone can have a happy life.
My core beliefs are that everyone should have the same rights, but I was straying from that out of hate for the SJWs, eventually, for a brief time, becoming like one on the opposite side.
@@thotslayer9914 campose? Do you mean my political ideology? I don't follow just one, i'm a mix of left wing and right wing basically. in american politics i'd probably be called an independant, on internet political test quizzes i'm libertarian. I don't want to go into too much detail more than I already have though, my comment basically was about how I stopped myself from becoming something i'm against because of the plot of metal gear solid 2's themes. That game is one of the biggest things that influenced my beliefs. Everyone should have the same freedoms is my core belief, so I'd say that does make me libertarian if I understand it right.
Congratulations, you proved that Kojima-san's "Selection for Societal Sanity" works.
Thanks again.
@@sombraarthur It's actually reasonable to believe it can work in real life. it's a flaw of the internet of today, and something a lot of people fall into. Being unable to find common ground, getting overly emotionally hateful of another because of an opinion. I only briefly fell into that trap in a bad time during 2014. Then I played MGS and learned from that mistake. I'm far from perfect, but now I stick to the ideals I mentioned in my original comment.
Just so there's no misunderstanding: I never wished death on anyone or harmed anyone for my beliefs in that time though. Becoming authoritarian like those I oppose is my greatest sin, and proof the S3 plan has a basis in reality though, but I learned from it and improved myself quickly.
Truly our future is a scary one
Death not by nuclear fire, but by mental confusion, social distrust and civil chaos
I've been witnessing the downfall of online discourse for almost a decade now, I was pretty young and yet I could see how antagonizing forces were building up
Imo their clash was around 2012, ever since then we seem to be on a downward spiral where every year is crazier than the last
And this has bled into real life discourse as a result of the mass appeal social media has these days with the rise of smartphones, everyone is online and everyone has an opinion
Nothing is true by definition, only what your side believes, no one is guilty unless society says it is, but society itself feels like it doesn't have a voice for themselves, instead it's decided beforehand and then shoved down our throats
I'm not even sure what I'm saying, but this feeling that the world is going down the wrong path has been in my thoughts for a long time now, and it's honestly just depressing cause no one has any idea how to fix it
Roger Nobre well it's about to get scarier, the CIA have developed many futuristic weapon that we have not heard of, for example they already have a small chip that can be implanted into human body and control their mind, movements, dream and basically almost everything.
Roger Nobre thinking the future is “scary” is honestly a learned behavior
throughout time people claim the end is near , in fear that it is .they never get to enjoy life for what it it , just what it might be
@@kodakboppin7679 Thank you. Factually speaking we’re living in the most peaceful time in human history. Though it might not feel that way.
I was 11 when I played this, I replayed it once every year (I used to do yearly MGS marathons when I had no school) and each year this conversation made more and more sense to me. I remember it influencing my school work to, one teacher told me not to question why we're learning the curriculum. I wrote him an essay on why I thought his position was flawed and silly, he gave it full-marks but from that day despised me. He thought I was a chaotic person disrupting his lesson, I thought he was a hack who refused to answer my questions, although to his face I believe I called him a 'shitehawk of a teacher'.
I digress, basically, as a child this game prepared and warned me for a world over-saturated with lies. Some of the best education I ever received.
I was terrified of this scene when I was 11 playing MGS2 the first time, mostly because of the breaking of the 4th wall, the game over screen, the creepy skull colonel. Today I'm terrified of it because of the message.
The only thing to fear is fear itself. And lying scum like FDR.